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Most T-Bonds are fake anyway. US Treasuries will never be paid back thanks to our debt based economy, and QE's where Ben Bernanke buys T-Bonds with money he made out of thin air.
Check the real facts then get a life. By the way your mommy is calling. Time to go to school.
these fake bonds are not new, they did the same thing with federal reserve 100 dollar notes about 15 years ago; some are of such high quality that they have even fooled experts; most are done by nations un-friendly to the U.S., many financial intuitions hold some amount of fake Treasury notes, , no one knows the real amount.
Dave, which Fed branch do you work at?
I agree with Alan, I thought the Italians were going to use the fake US Treasuries to pay off the Italian sovereign debt. Problems solved, just switch one fake set of bonds for another.
Dave may be rude but he is right. If you don't believe him, then you are a fraud yourself if you own any of the following:
1) a US bank account
2) holdings at any financial institution, including a credit union
3) any cash in US currency, from pennies to dollars.
So, its funny to point out our debt. But go hop a plane to Mexico and find out how many pesos you get to a dollar. See which one people want more in Mexico. And then you can bitch.
The Italian counterfeiters are at it again.
The art forgery trade must be slowing down.
.
Who is going to buy $6 trillion in bonds? I don't think one would find a buyer in the private market and I would think, that if one wanted that much he would go to the Treasury Dept. Also, redeeming them would be a real bitch -- sounds like the guy who tried to use a $1,000,000 bill to buy a $450.00 item at Walmart and was demanding change from the cashier.
One potential market for them would be to people trying to get loans. Imagine if you didn't have the assets to secure a $50,000 loan, and someone offers to sell you $50,000 in fake bonds for a few dollars to use as collateral. Some might be tempted.
I sure wouldn't want to try cashing them in, but to show a European loan officer as collateral... less of a concern.
Perhaps we should have used these instead of U.S. cash to bribe those Iraqi and Afgani warlords who turned around and f--ked us as soon as they had the chance.
As with the 798 billion in bonds in 2009 that Japanese individuals had while crossing from Italy into Switzerland this is highly mysterious also. Because what bank in the world even Switzerland would take someone walking in with a billion or more in US treasuries and then giving them the money. Bernanke couldn't do it because Switzerland would call US Treasury dept. and find out if the numbers where right and also are you authorizing the sale of these billions of dollars in treasuries. Even if they where real, the US would try to stall (Like they did the japanese individuals back in 2009) and say we aren't sure who's selling them, maybe they are forgeries etc. etc..
What I think is happening is that many of the smaller countries (the countries without nuclear weapons) aren't being allowed to sell their US treasuries either by arm twisting or by threats and they decided to try to sell them at a discount under the radar.
Dave the doubter,
Dave, please, for your sanity and health, lighten-up man. I believe that alan_static was only surrounding his humor with sentimental fact. That is, everyone is always saying, we, as a nation, will not pay off our debt, the bulk of which is in Treasuries. In short he was joking. However, he does have better than a 50/50 chance at being right on the money (truth). It it does happen, if we default on our national debt, life will go on although it will be terribly different. Have a relaxing and GREAT weekend! By the way, if you do have some of those T-Bills stashed away, hang on to them they will still "cash-out!
.........but 6 TRILLION's worth ????........a little greedy I would think.
Maybe the presses got stuck and they couldn't shut them off and kept feeding them paper? How the heck did they ever think they could pass that much paper anyway? Maybe 60 million or 160 million, but SIX TRILLION?? That just doesn't compute on a common sense scale?? Go to all that intricate work to falsify them but print Six Trillions worth?? Doesn't make any sense to put your future on the line for what seems to be a gross error in judgement on a grand scale!
Thank you scambolo
I thought all T Bills were essentially fake, no real value when you consider likelihood of payback.
You're correct. This is well known throughout the world and it should be nothing new for the Italian police. The police should have know what they allegend criminals were really trying to sell the Treasuries as fire kindling for the cold winter they are having in Italy.
these are truly worthless and an outdated form of collateral. GOLD baby GOLD
imrightnotyou,
Gold has nowhere to go but down. If you think it's anything but a bubble you're kidding yourself.
Not just down. If things fall apart then the Govt will take it for pennies on the dollar to bring back some stability to the country. You say no they want...hmmm...you might want to take a look back in history.
If they are fakes they MUST have come from the Federal Reserve. Everything else they print is worthless and fake.
Really? So what do you pay your bills with?
I pay mine with my energy, time, & dignity!!
I hope you at least make them wear a condom.
Please forward all your "fake" printings to the IRS so they can make use of it.
hahahaha
So true. Who backs the "real" U.S. treasury notes? They are, after all, "borrowed" from the Federal Reserve. Last time we looked at their books (last fall) it was revealed that they "loaned" ca. $14 Trillion (yep, with a "T") to banks around the world...with zero congressional approval, or even knowledge for that matter. The most under-reported story of our time. Forbes.com carried the story, but the other MSM outlets didn't even report it.
One potential market for them would be to people trying to get loans. Imagine if you didn't have the assets to secure a $50,000 loan, and someone offers to sell you $50,000 in fake bonds for a few dollars to use as collateral. Some might be tempted.
I sure wouldn't want to try cashing them in, but to show a European loan officer as collateral... less of a concern. Might explain the huge number, too. $6 trillion? But if you're just selling phony collateral proof, that $6 trillion could turn into a measly few million awful fast.
That's probably the first intellegent response I've heard so far.
.........but 6 TRILLION's worth ????........a little greedy I would think.
Maybe the presses got stuck and they couldn't shut them off and kept feeding them paper? How the heck did they ever think they could pass that much paper anyway? Maybe 60 million or 160 million, but SIX TRILLION?? That just doesn't compute on a common sense scale?? Go to all that intricate work to falsify them but print Six Trillions worth?? Doesn't make any sense to put your future on the line for what seems to be a gross error in judgement on a grand scale!
Athiest: dumb question time, but who do you expect a reserve bank to lend to ? Reserve banks lend to other banks, that is their function in the financial world. You write as if you did not know this.
This were probably O'Blamer administration czars trying to get a jump on their impending firing by the voters in November.
When start talking in absolutes about an event taking place more then 200 days in the future you just start sounding desperate. There is not enough evidence to state with certainty that Obama is going to lose. Right now Republican;s do not have the votes to anyway, not as long as they keep pushing this contraception issue.
However there could be an event down the road that will put Obama's re-election at jeopardy so I am not ruling it out, I just wish you and the other Righties claiming it is an inevitable truth would stop trying to turn platitudes into facts.
There is an element of truth to what alan is saying. There is a certain amount of fake paper out there globally, be it bonds or bills. Counterfeit bills are common in the international drug trade. As long as it flows through the food chain everybody's happy. Same as "real" money. That's why gold is the real deal, and selling for $2000/oz
Gold is selling because people with vested interests are telling people like you that the economy is going to collapse because of a certain man in the white house. The gold market behaves like a currency, not a commodity. It is going to crash and crash hard, it's just a matter of when. Don't believe me? There was a single day in 1980 where it traded for almost $2,400/oz adjusted for inflation. It crashed precipitously soon after.
in our economy, dont know why anyone would want to counterfeit american money, treasuries or bonds anyway, its practically worthless anymore. youd probably get more money counterfeiting toilet paper.
I'll try paying my utilities with the toilet paper this month and let you know if I get change.
I would gladly trade my energy & skills for some good TP. Charmin is out of control expensive.
Would you rather have counterfeit euros? They're doing worse than the dollar these days. In fact, if Greece falls, and Italy doesn't get its act together, the euro may just disappear. I don't see that happening with the dollar anytime soon.
...or Monopoly money. Same thing, basically.
Does this mean I'll see a drop in the "Work at Home" scam e-mails wanting idiots to cash these and Western-Union 90% of the funds to some @sswipe in a foreign country? Please?
Yeah, this sounds like the ultimate Nigerian scam. I get these e-mails all the time (not for $6 trillion, though...)
"Italian police seize $6 trillion of fake T-Bonds"
Given the amount of our debt that is owned by the Fed, how could they tell the difference?
If Obama keeps running up the national debt all T-Bonds both real and fake will be seized as they will have no value.
Anything with a "T" as in Trillion, gotta be a record. Hey Joyce, where were you when the GOP racks up 2/3rds of the national debt? Dem responsible for about 1/3 only.
That's right kdc, they forget who started this mess.
Unfortunately, Joyce, KDC, and Joe forget that both parties are equally to blame and WE as AMERICANS should stop playing the party blame game!!!!
Except Dave, that only one party is grossly responsible for much of the largest corruption in the last 80 years. Going back to teapot dome, Nixon, Regan's arms for contra's, the huge but largely forgotten junk bond scandal from 30 years ago, the massive savings and loan scandals 20 years ago. ALL Repuglicans.
And don't get me started on the Bush's. The list is so long and slimy it is incomprehensible.
If we simply had never allowed a Repuglican to be elected to office all our lives would be much much better.
GDP was 69% when obama took office, now its like 102!! 33% in the blink of a eye...spend spend spend thats all demicrats know how to do. so get off your high horse. that being said, i think the republicans are just as bad in other ways. IN A NUT SHELL, THE TWO PARTY SYSTEM ALLOWS ONE TO BLAME THE OTHER AND NO ONE TO HAVE TO TAKE RESPONCIBILITY.
polititions use it against us. its always THE OTHER GUYS FAULT!!!
Is this the GOP's "New Math"? Following their reasoning, would you blame the fire on the fire department...and hold them accountable for every square foot of the building that burned after the moment they arrived to put it out?
zewt, you're right its all the republican's fault for the mess we're in. Barney Frank, while on the House Banking Committee, and his then-boyfriend Herb Moses, an executive with Fannie Mae, didn't do anything wrong or have anything to do with unqualified people getting loans which resulted in the housing crash. Bill Clinton didn't give China "a most favored nation" status. Bill also didn't stop the NAFTA when he had a chance, I will admit though that Bush SR did start this one but Clinton had a chance to stop it but chose not to so its a bad for both of them. And now lets look at where many or our jobs are going to and products coming from, that's right China and Mexico. So I agree with fix it man, its both parties' fault and they need to come to terms with it and start working together to make the nation great again.
kdc...1/3 OK. but try to remember Obama has put us 5.5 Tril in debt in 3 years and re-instated the Patriot act he campaigned against and has signed the NDAA. hE HAS TO GO.
THis is an unfolding story that's been a hidden FED secret for over 70 years. Many of these so called fake bonds are indeed real. Many fake bonds were purposely mixed in with these legitimate bonds so that if anyone tried to redeem them they would be confiscated (stolen) and easliy written off as frauds. Many of these bonds were underwritten by the FED post brenton woods summit in exchange for much of the worlds gold, which is now stored in secret vaults all over the world, many of the vaults are in the Philipines. The Old Kumingtan party leaders in China holds the majority of the these so called fake bonds, some are Kennedy Bonds that have denominations of in some cases, of a billion or more US dollars. A few years ago a similar event happened where two Japanese guys were arrested with 134 billion in US Fed bonds by the Italian Police. The bonds were confiscated and later tried to be redeemed by corrupted officials in the UN. There is a lawsuit currently pending against the FED the head of the UN and various other elite bankers in a New York Federal Court on behalf of the owners of these bonds (Old China Khumingtan) who say they were stolen, the plaintiff is a man named Neil Keenan.
For those interested in the real story behind all these bonds, google Ben Fulford and David Wilcock, they done the most complete research on this stuff.
http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/12/05/41930.htm
http://www.divinecosmos.com/start-here/davids-blog/995-lawsuit-end-tyranny
Right on, yomama, get the word out. If anyone is interested in this story, David Wilcock is your must-read. He has done an extraordinary, exhaustive job researching and telling about this most incredible cover-up in our history. And if anyone out there has already read him and still believes that this is all just a massive hoax (ie, that these bonds are fake), let's hear it! This story NEEDS scrutiny and close examination because the truth of it truly could effect the entire tide of our economy and finally return it to the hands of the people.
^^ This info, even if it seems hard to believe, deserves to be considered on it's merits. I'll connect another dot for you to give it more weight...
Listen to the surreal speech of (formerly?) respected member James Blackheath to the British House of Lords, which in my opinion probably led directly to the subsequent seizure of these bonds.
Also, the quality of these 'counterfeit' bonds and their boxes is incredible. Even fake bonds and boxes like this would be a significant investment. The Idea that an actual counterfeiter would put the wrong number of stars on the flag after going to all that expense to get so many other details right is not credible. the 'counterfeiters' must obviously have had access to real bonds. That detail would be easy to copy, while it would take conscious effort to modify. The only people who have a motive to make that effort is the federal reserve themselves. In that sense they are counterfeited then, as they were given to the holders without any intention to ever redeem them.
Nearly everytime I read comments on almost anything the GOP vs. Democrats shots start flying. I am just glad that the ranks of independents have seemed to grow over the years (been one since early eighties). I have news for most of you. Many of today's problems that have resulted in our children having a lower standard of living than thier parents are the result of BOTH parties failures of leadership and statesmanship, politcal corruption of BOTH parties, and lack of adequate controls around monetary policy, budgets, and term limits. Country needs leadership outside of the two mainstream parties that rigged the system and bought by their respective constituents.
Better be careful there carlc. You know what happens to those that have a non-partisan, common sense view of things. And God help you if you use true facts!
I can see the political vultures circling as I speak. LOL
Take cover!
Independents are just as influenced by big money. There just aren't as many in office now. Big money will rule them too once their numbers grow. Being Independent doesn't make you pure. As long as there is money in politics money will rule. Getting money out of politics is the only possible solution.
Carlc, i think one reason our children may have a lower standard of living is because many of them expect to be taken care of. Look around, when 47% of the people aren't paying taxes and expecting to be taken care of by the 53% we have a problem, not a 1% or 99% issue as many would have us believe. We need to be teaching our children that nothing in life is free and you need to be working for it, that's how one generation lives better than the last. I know times are hard but that just means people need to work harder, maybe its start a new business or move somewhere where jobs are more plentiful or go back to college and upgrade or get a better education. But in any case just sitting around waiting on the government isn't going to get it done. I know that some people are trying hard to find another job but you can't deny that there are those that have quit or haven't even tried to find another job.
They got greedy. Should have kept it at 5 trillion.
And this is just the fake debt. Just wait til you see the real thing. Get ready to start speaking Greek.
How dare they! Only we can print money from thin air!
Ah, they are doing something in Italy, finally. Just not the right thing.
Plan B to pay off half our debt failed.
Dang.
I note they do not name the suspects!
to the person who said dems only did 1/3 debt u wrong because our debt was 8 trillion when obama came to office and by end of 2010 it was 15 trillion and we was 3 trillion when bush came to office and he added 5 trillion in 8 years while obama in two did alot and not counting 2011 and up and these figures from debt clock
Lets have the names of these alleged perpetrators.
The real ones are fake enough...
How are these 'fakes' any less fraudulent than the 'real' ones when you consider just how bankrupt the US Fed-Gov is?
These weren't fake bonds, turns out they were legit issue from the Federal Reserve bank of Chicago. They were issued in return for _physical— gold deposits. Unfortunately, the Fed, (which we can trust so much /sarc/) printed too many bonds, probably around an excess of 100x too many.
This isn't the first time the Fed has defaulted on its written contractual obligations.
I'm afraid to comment for fear of being attacked with partisan drivel.
Nevertheless, my first thought when reading this was what does one do with $6 trillion dollars? Wouldn't it be easier to get away with a more more reasonable number like just a few billion?
Dump them on the market and crash our system. If China dumps their 800 Billion, much less Trillions, it would crash. As for them being fake, I can agree with many posters here. The Fed and Treasury do it all the time.
Some of you taking this seriously need to realise the U.S. Dollar doesn't have much time left on it's life. I see Hyperinflation in our future. The only reasons it hasn't done it already is that it's the worlds reserve currency and oil is traded in dollars, in effect making it a currency backed by oil. The Petrodollar. The value of ANY fiat currency is the faith in it of those using it. Right now I use it, because others use it. When the sentiment that isn't a stable currency hits a critical mass, all bets are off.
$6 trillion dollars, I wonder who they were gonna sell those bonds to! Some people with a lot of money and connections are involved. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Let the investigation begin, unless it leads to a US ally.