Bottom line is if their "religious and moral values" (cough, cough) conflict with providing medical care, then the "church" needs to get out of the medical care providing service.

Once the church starts venturing into the secular world by running secular businesses, they should be held to the same rules as any other employer.

The other thing that is clear here is that the Catholic church is completely out of step with what it's own membership wants.

No, the Church is NOT out of step with their own people. Many people say that they are Catholic without going to church for years. I do know that many Catholics are energized and do NOT like this forced upon people!

People aren't having anything "forced" upon them Linda. They're being given access to services that a majority of the states already provides.

Who's forcing what upon whom, again? A lapsed Catholic getting high and mighty about imagined threats to an organization they no longer patronize is doubly laughable and deserves less than half a thought.

Obama's "compromise" is a complete joke. The plan does not have to include birth control but if the person covered under the plan requests the coverage it has to be provided by the insurance company at no extra cost. So what that means is the coverage is priced into the premiums and the insurance company will make a little extra profit is a few women do not request activation of this benefit. In the end, the plans is still paying for the benefit. Obama's compromise is all smoke and mirrors with no substantial difference from the original requirement.

200 Catholic priests accused of molestation in CA ALONE???//www.ksee24.com/news/local/Priests-Accused-Of-Molesting-Children-Mapped-139152664.html

how sick is the church hierarchy? and the repubs support these child molesters? what about family values? what about morals? wheere did Jesus say sexually abuse little boys? they ought to be in jail. but , no, these perverts are trying to tell my govt and me how to behave? what medical attention they think I should have.

Everyone is missing the bigger issue. This is not about a religious view or contraception and abortion pills. It's about our beloved POTUS wielding power again that he does not have. What gives him the authority/power to tell insurance companies you will provide these drugs, products, and services "free" to policy holders? (As if the remainder of the policy holders won't actually pay for this in additional premium hikes) Why am I required to pay for my neighbor's birth control? Can anybody tell me where that obligation to me originated in Obama's mind? (or other liberal mindsets for that matter)

This is obviously yet another small step towards socialized medicine. If birth control is a necessary medical need, why stop there? What about blood pressure meds, diabetes meds, acne meds, depression meds????? where does it stop? THAT is the point, it will not stop and we are headed towards government medicine 100% cradle to grave if Obama has anything to do with it. Would not be so much of an issue, but are you aware of how inefficent the American government is at whatever it regulates and controls? It was not designed to provide these types of services. Never was, never will be.

The law.

STexan - he didn't force them, they gladly complied when asked, since insurees using contraceptives cost them less money than pregnancies or abortions. It's preventative care.

S Texan, you're exactly right; this is another example of an over-reaching, out-of-control, dictator-wannabee who thinks he's going to impose HIS morals and rules on a religious institution. And Bozobama better believe Catholics VOTE, and they're going to show up in record numbers to beat this socialist down and out of office. Good for the bishops, too!

krausskd- so you side with the pedophiles and pedophile enablers and want the POPE to run our healthcare?

how sick are you?

So, since scientology doesn't believe in the use of medicine, would they not be required to provide ANY medical insurance??

@ Rich: Maybe not sick. Just doesn't like women.

Sugarba -- Having a strong military is good preventative medicine too and saves money in the long run in the form of stable crude supplies and dangerous dictators being kept in check, but I don't hear any libs talking about strengthening the military.

Your argument did not answer my question. Why do I have to pay for someone else's lifestyle and to help "save money" for the insurance companies? I have a vasectomy. I paid cash for it. My obligation to prevent child conception is paid in full. And I'm sure that makes many of you libs quite happy and frankly it would make me happy that some of you here not procreate, but that's not the point here.

Eating healthy will lengthen my life so does that mean I can expect Obama and the libs to force the US food producers to give me a monthly $300 voucher for free, healthy foods?

In a land that values religious freedom above all else, only Catholics should pay attention to what their priests say or think. Simple.

Anyone else siding with them, for whatever reason or agenda, are handing over our religious freedoms to that church, and based on about 1400 years of history, once they get their claws into what laws America passes or keeps, they will NEVER let go.

STexan - Existing healthcare and labor laws allow his administration to do this. Get a clue. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean he doesn't have the authority.

The root cause is employers providing health insurance.

Employers should not provide health insurance. They should pay their employees enough so that the employee is buying his own health coverage.

I don't want my employer dictating my health care choices.

Hey Bishops, check this out. It's straight from your holy book. Matthew Chapter 7, verse 5: "You hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of your own eye; and then shall you see clearly to cast out the mote out of your brother's eye."

You have serious problems, not only with pedophilia, but with a concerted effort to cover it up. Deal with that first.

Now as to the issue of contraception, stop with your BS. This is about a benefit offered to employees and it is subject to labor law. It is not a Constitutional issue.

If you wish to continue to engage in this silliness about an invisible sky guy, do so. That is constitutionally protected. Discriminating against employees who do not share your religious views is NOT constitutionally protected.

Charlie is right.

In this particular case, the hospitals and universities are acting as employers, and they are subject to the same laws as any employer would be. Labor laws, insurance regulations, etc. all apply, even if the bishops don't like it.

The congregations will vote against the bishops and priests, and vote for Obama.

They will use both Houses of Congress? Separation of Church and State?

OKAY TIME TO TAKE AWAY THEIR TAX EXEMPT STATUS

The could give less then a damn what these bishops think or want they can't even get Catholic women to stop using Birth control and they are the ones charged with actually abiding by their wishes. They got their damn accommodation and there is a separation of church and state under our Constitution so I suggest that they SHUT THE HELL UP!

Hey Donion Foops.... You have no clue..... group policy is $1,400 per month for our company (2 people were in our group). One of our employees quit... and we decided to go with two part timers who did not qualify for coverage (less than 30 hours per week).... ... now that other individual policy went to $3,500 per month (it has NOTHING to do with Obama care... if we still had 2 employees we'd still be a group).... see what happens when your group goes away!!! You'll be shocked...

Linda M-311663

No, the Church is NOT out of step with their own people. Many people say that they are Catholic without going to church for years. I do know that many Catholics are energized and do NOT like this forced upon people!

83% of us Catholics agree with the President on this one. The Church is out of step on this issue, all over the world.

The catholic church, as a brand, is falling out of favor. The evangelists and mormons are ascendent.

so what does a failing brand of religion do, .... attack the President and get a lot of press coverage. They're trying to out crazy the lunatic evangelicals.

How many angels can dance on the head of a catholic pin????

Where is the bishops' passion and public outrage over the rising levels of poverty and real social pain? Shame, shame, shame.

I am a very active Catholic who has totally given up on the hierarchy. I keep my focus on my wonderful local parish and priests. The "Pharisees" above them have no moral authority with me or any sincere Catholic I know of either political party.

You know who really is walking in the footsteps of Christ in the US now? NUNS! There are incredible woman living among the poor and finding Christ in them, But of course...the idiots at the Vatican have these women under investigation for not being subservient enough. Get behind us, Satan.

STexan is too stupid to know IT'S ALREADY THE LAW in 28 STATES!! CONTRACEPTION COVERAGE IS ALREADY LAW. You're such a dupe for religious fanatics. Hell you'd love Saudi Arabia if it was Christian instead of the tragedy of Islam. You love BIG GOVT telling people how to run their sex lives. I lived in Dallas and know you can buy an UNLIMITED number of guns but CAN'T buy sex toys! THAT'S what the right wing loves...morality police

STexan - You cannot take a step without using something that the "government" representing all the citizens of this country, have collectively paid for. If you believe you shouldn't be asked to spend your tax dollars for something you don't agree with, then conversely, you shouldn't use anything that the remainder of this country has paid for. You couldn't even step out of your house (or trailer) because you would be trespassing. Morons like you have been fed this dose of trash, because you are among those sad bunch of people that exist in every society who are played like puppets by preying on bigotry, ignorance and greed. These are the 3 poisons of the human mind that have been exploited since time immemorial. The Buddha realised this fact over 2500 years ago and nothing has changed since.

It beats me why a group of pedophiles and hypocrites should have any say in how and when catholic women should practice preventive medicine and manage their own healthcare.

Beyond any government, any agency, any president, nothing is more vital to the great continuum of all life and life itself as, Zero Population Growth, as human hordes are devouring the physical body and face of the Earth, and all the reasons man exists.

Birth control is vital as mankind, in all his ignorance, is destroying all the reasons he exists. We have reached, way beyond the sustainability of our life creating and supporting Earth, with our ever growing demands for energies, bulldozers, chain saws and concrete, as dead as the dead tumble of rocks on Mars, a planet as life creating and sustaining as Mars. Man will not make it on Mars!

And, man can't survive on a planet plowed, bulldozed, chain sawed, concreted with dead, entombing and lifeless planet as Mars because he has destroyed all the reasons he exists and breathes.

Well, boo, hoo, hoo. I oppose almost everything that the Catholic bishops stand for, including their dirty habits (with and without the pun) of sweeping sexual misconduct under the table.

There is a reason why the Founding Fathers wanted a separation of Church and State, and the Catholic priesthood have spent the last few centuries demonstrating that wisdom. There is no place for Catholic dogma in Washington.

The Bishops press on without the support of 80% of Catholics. All Americans should have the right to control their reproductive fertility. This is none of the Church's business.

The nerve of the Catholic Church in this time in history to be making demands when they protect their child molesting Priests.............clean up your own house before you seek to proclaim edict on the world.

Hypocrites...................turn your back on protecting living breathing children that your church allows to be molested (while protecting the raping molesting Priests) and out the other side of your face condemn those who would seek a remedy for not having unwanted pregnancies.........

protecting the unborn while sacrificing the living...........how very Christian of you...................I would like to think that God would not like those who use and abuse his children to go unpunished. It is man who protects the wicked...God who would protect the innocent.

So, it begs the question, is there a God?.................It would appear even the Pope does not answer to God, let alone man.

There will come a reckoning................the time of the Catholic Churches elite standing in the world of man and the world of finance and the world of power will come to end someday..................the times they are changing and if the church does not change with they will not survive......

what an interesting day that would be.

Gosh S Texan, I didn't realize you are one of those God-like beings who live outside of society, islands unto themselves. Why do you allow your taxes to pay for police that investigate crimes against people other than you, or firemen who save people other than you. Do you oppose paying to educate other peoples children? To build roads to places you'll never go? To protect states other than texas with our military?

It's sad enough that we allow religions to benefit from government services without paying taxes, but when dinosaurs like the Catholic church support policies that would cause a dramatic increase in abortions (being anti-contraceptive), covering up countless incidents of child abuse, and using this made up controversy to draw attention away from the findings on pedophile priests...and still try to claim the moral high ground...well that is possibly the most cynical and anti-christian mindset possible.

Catholics selling their souls to the socialist devil to save the 20Bucks a month Co-pay.....This is gonna cost you eons in Purgatory.....If you just paid out of pocket to sin against a teaching of The Church....it would only be one eon in Purgatory....Advocating for others to do likewise....is a greater sin....think about that for a while...this is bigger than getting FREE BC pills and FREE Plan B pills....

"This, too, raises serious moral concerns," the bishops said.

So it's OK for Catholic priest's to fu*king molest kids but God forbid a Catholic woman wants to use birth control pills or have an abortion, or an employee of said religion needs or uses birth control pills. My Wife and Daughter, both are Catholic, use birth control pills for medical reasons and thankfully are not employed in any way by the church. Since when do these self professing bishops and preists all the sudden have moral concerns?? HAHAHAHA, and they wonder why less and less people are joining the church these days. Get with the program, it's 2012 not 1841.

I am absolutely a pro=life individual but I never understood the objection to contraception that reduces the number of abortions,can anyone explain that? Obama thinks he is our boss but he is not that is the issue.

In trying to win points from the Liberals, President Obama is suffering from a self inflicted wound. President Obama will lose more by attacking the Catholic church than he will gain by just leaving them alone. Is President Obama trying to supercede the bishops? Is President Obama trying for the job of pope?

The Catholics should not compromise their morals. They should vote against the Democrats who are attacking the Catholic church.

Obama isn't attacking anyone. He heard some philosophical concerns expressed by the catholic church, acknowledged the historic significance to them of these beliefs, crafted an "out" for them that still protected the secular citizens who work for them and they are still not satisfied.

Once again, Obama is acting like the only grown-up in the room while the bishops (and republicans) stomp around yelling and kicking because they don't get what they want which is the ability to deny birth control entirely to people they employ for a wage in non-church organizations who are protected by labor laws. I know it is fashionable in some circles these days to object to anything the federal government does, until of course those people need the government to protect their interests.

Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that the Democrats are attacking the Catholic church. Today is the day for Catholics to decide if they will standby and allow the attacks by the Liberals or if they will vote against the Democrats.

Apparently the ONLY type of birth control they DO approve of is anal sex.

Tea - no, that is considered sodomy. The only birth control approved, grudgingly, by the church is the rhythm method where in one attempts to figure out when a woman is fertile and avoid sex then. The success rate of course is abysmal so essentially the church only condones abstinence as birth control. This probably made catholic women attractive to gay men when they couldn't even legally come out and needed social cover.

Laws trump religious beliefs. Nobody is forcing anyone to USE birth control, only that the institution offering medical insurance must comply with all laws. including covering of birth control. If all their employees are devout Catholics, then none of them would use it, right? If they have non-catholic employees, they are entitled to their own beliefs which includes the right to use birth control.

"U.S. Catholic Church leaders said they will fight President Barack Obama's controversial birth-control insurance coverage policy despite his compromise that religious employers would not have to offer free contraceptives for workers, shifting the responsibility to insurers."

What nonsense - there was no 'compromise' by Obama. Even he did not call it a 'compromise' - merely a so-called 'accommodation'.

The original policy required the Catholic organizations to provide insurance coverage for abortions, at the expense of the religious organizations, which is a violation of their core beliefs.

The 'compromise' policy still requires the Catholic organizations to provide insurance coverage for abortions, at the expense of the religious organizations, which is a violation of their core beliefs.

Saying the insurance company will provide it 'for free' is mere rhetorical nonsense. The insurance company will merely include the extra cost in the insurance premiums - just like they would have anyway.

Bottom Line - The Catholic organizations are still expected to violate their core beliefs and pay for abortions.

Forcing religious organizations to violate their core beliefs to satisfy his anti-religious base is going to hurt Obama in November.

What's unclear is whether the media reporting on this issue is just too ignorant to see through Obama's 'shadow boxing', or whether they are just too biased to report the truth.

Taziar post #1.44

Laws trump religious beliefs.

And the law of the First Amendment is: "the Federal Government shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, and the free exercise thereof." The issue is the federal government is forcing religious institutions to pay for drugs that allow a mother to legally kill the human life in her womb as part of their health plan even though the killing of human life is against their Religious beliefs. Therefore the federal government is forcing the leaders of Religious institutions, including Catholic Bishops, as part of their health insurance premium, to pay for a drug that would cause their employee to commit what the Religious leader would consider a grave sin. therefore the Religious is prohibited from exercising his or her religious beliefs. Based the recent Hosanna-Tabor vs EEOC ruling, the majority, if not all of the US Supreme Court Justices are likely to agree. Their opinion is the only that is going to matter. Obama is making a politically stupid, morally offensive and legally dumb move.

Nobody is forcing anyone to USE birth control, only that the institution offering medical insurance must comply with all laws. including covering of birth control.

And the Federal Government must comply with the First Amendment--most legal scholars would conclude they aren't doing that with this law.

But the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops said its concerns were not addressed and cited "serious moral concerns."

Concern yourselves with the moral perversity running through your ranks and file before trying to teach morality to others.

I've had enough of this issue. Allow me to shout........WHEN RELIGIONS BEGIN TO DICTATE WHAT LAWS THIS COUNTRY CAN HAVE AND WHAT IT CANNOT IT IS TIME WE TAX THEIR OUTRAGEOUS WEALTH! For the conservative teafreaks here, who believe the President has overstepped his bounds, imagine your outrage if this was the Muslim religion trying to tell us our laws did not accommodate their religious dictates.

First of all, this is a false twisting of religious freedom because no church is being made to provide things to which it objects. But when a religion chooses to insert itself into the secular world and employ individuals who are not necessarily of their religion or observant of that religion's principles, they lose the right to DENY those employees things that those employees would get through coverage from another employer. Churches, and not just the Catholic Church, is trying to have their constitutional cake and eat it, too. They want to be protected in their rights by limiting, denying and violating those of others.

The Catholic Church's bishops are hypocrites just as are all those claiming to be "pro-life", a term which is the most obscene twisting of language I've ever heard! In truth, they are merely pro-birth; once that fetus passes through the birth canal into the world, they don't given a rat's crap about it, ESPECIALLY IF IT MIGHT COST THEM A FEW PENNIES, PERSONALLY.

The pro-birth movement's supporters don't care if that once-fetus-now-child gets enough to eat, a decent home, proper clothes, a good education, good medical care, and are loved and safe from abuse.

They don't want to prevent pregnancies by allowing distribution of contraception like birth control pills or condoms; they don't want to allow a woman the right to terminate a pregnancy (that might have been prevented) for which she and her family are not prepared financially, emotionally, or attitudinally. If you want to see fewer abortions, provide better and more birth control. But to oppose both is tantamount to entrapment, making you partially responsible for the child's life and it's quality of life - or lack thereof.

Yet when there's a discussion about cutting programs that provide food for children and their mothers, or that subsidize housing costs, or provide the children medical care, the Selfish Meanies come out and say things like, "They shouldn't expect help just because they have children to care for... They shouldn't have had the child(ren) if they couldn't afford it."

These mean-spirited, selfish people ignore the reality of the Catch-22 of their own making. The choice of not having the child was never in the mother's power because you tell her that to be a "good" woman means submitting to her husband's sexual needs, but she cannot have birth control to protect herself and the likelihood of him submitting to a vasectomy or using condoms is minimal, and once the inevitable pregnancy occurs, she is not to do anything to terminate it. So, because of the tyrannical imposition of the beliefs of people she does not know and probably doesn't share religious philosophy with, she is forced to give birth to, and is expected to infallibly and perfect perform the duties of motherhood. And is mocked, castigated, criticized, lectured, condescended to by the same so-called Christians who played so large a role in putting her in this situation!

I DO hope Christ returns soon. If he were to first walk among us unannounced I believe that he would weep in horror and disgust at the perversion of his teachings of love, mutual support and caring, help for the poor and ill and unfortunate. And if he, yet unidentified, were to speak out in support of these things he would immediately be attacked as a socialist and purveyor of 'entitlement' philosophy. I believe there will be a LOT of people who think they are righteous and morally superior will find, to their everlasting shock, that the gates of a merciful heaven are locked against them as they have locked themselves from TRUE Christian behavior and acts.

Are these Roman Catholic Bishops, who are fighting birth control for women, the same Roman Catholic Bishops who hid the crimes of their pedifile priests for years, decades, and possibly centuries? Yes? Well then we should really pay attention to them now for "moral and ethical" guidance in all sexually related matters, right? Are you sure?

Do these 'religious institutions' provide vasectomies or hysterectomies? A hysterectomy was the 'birth control' method used by Catholic women in the 1950s and 1960s. Do these 'religious institutions' provide for medical treatments that cause sterility or increase the risk of miscarriage? Of course these more intrusive medical procedures provide more profit. Are these 'religious institutions' concerned about morality or profit?

The 'conservatives' have been perverting the First Amendment for a long time. "Conservatives' attempt to convert any and all secular issues into 'religious' issues - because - the First Amendment bars government from interfering. 'Conservatives' do not want to be governed - so that - 'conservatives' are not required to play by the rules.

BlackHillsLaura "I DO hope Christ returns soon. If he were to first walk among us unannounced I believe that he would weep in horror and disgust at the perversion of his teachings of love, mutual support and caring, help for the poor and ill and unfortunate."

I suspect that he will weep a lot more for the killing of millions of unborn children for the 'convenience' of the mother.

I think many of you are wrong, for the fact I worked for an Insurance company for 10+ years. You are already paying for many things other people are having done.

That is what an insurance company is. They take everyone's money and the most sick get most of your money...unless you are one of the most sick.

Get real and stop complaining about something that isn't really the problem. You don't like him so any issue is a good issue to stand against him.

Guess what though....your voting core has decreased as the voting has shown.

That means most Republicans don't even support Republicans anymore. Most Catholics don't believe in birth control as a sin anymore. You are living in the past and the past isn't coming back.

Many birth control prescriptions aren't for the purpose of not getting pregnant...it's for the care of actual medical conditions. But since you cannot look past your hate of one person...you cannot see the truth.

If you don't want to be paying for other people's medical issues....set up your own medical fund. Because any money given to an Insurance company means you are helping others as well as yourself. Even for things you don't believe in.

SBParrothead - the health care reform bill is being forced on us. I don't want and don't need it. Besides, what good is birth-control without immigration control?

@NVArt - Aren't most of those immigrants Catholic?

Your argument is a circular one. What are roads without cars to drive on them?

What's a head without a brain?

It's just rhetoric to distort the actual subject of conversation.

Bottom line is the Catholic Church has staked out the battle lines - they have not changed their position in 2,000 years and see no need to accommodate Obama as he tries to impose his left wing policies on those who do not support him. If the Catholic Church gave an inch on this the next thing Obama and his Gangsta hood would be trying to slam down their throat is funding of abortions.

The Catholic Church is right to stop Obama and his administration for violations of the Constitution and its infringement upon the religious rights of Americans.

Deborah S,

I sure hope that everyone will read and comprehend your post #1.55. It is a truth which begs to be told and understood, for all those who believe in the TRUTH and FACT! Congratulations, and best wishes!

ternan,

RE: your post #1.55

You haven't a clue! I have been educated in the Catholic School system for over 19 years of my 69 years of life on Earth and I will assure you that the Roman Catholic Church has changed its position, THOUSANDS OF TIMES, on every conceivable subject over its 2000 year existence, including matters of sexuality and sexual behavior. EVEN if they had not changed their positions, several times, does NOT mean they are always correct on their teachings. They are an institution which is governed by mere men and women just as are all institutions. To deny this truth is 'blind faith', which is actually no faith whatsoever! (see Augistine of Hippo and Thomas Aquinas' writings and teachings on faith for the explaination). To assume and state that the Roman Catholic Church is intransigent is folly and shows lack of fundamental understanding of the Church's history. Sorry!

What confuses me the most....if they say to work for them the employee must sign a contract to follow their beliefs....

Who do they think will use the insurance to buy contraceptives? It seems to me that the Catholic leaders have no faith in their people to do the "right thing".

If God wants someone pregnant, it doesn't matter if someone is using contraceptives or not. I know many cases of people getting pregnant while on birth control. It seems to me the church has no faith in God to make that decision.

You say you have faith, but really it's control over those around you that you want more than anything.

President Obama has just given the people a choice. He's not forcing anyone to use contraceptives.

Choice and Faith aren't always opposites. It's people that want power over others that make it into opposites.

The Bishops are concerned about contaception. Why aren't they more concerned about their pedophile brethern? The World in general is overpopulated and the Catholic Church is telling their faithful to be fruitful and multiply! They are more of a problem than a solution.

....they have not changed their position in 2,000 years and see no need to accommodate O....

They certainly changed their position on technology and the abuses Galileo suffered at their hands. They ended up apologizing for their sins. They certainly now believe that the World is a sphere. They have certainly changed their minds on science as the poopey flies around in his airbus. They have also changed their minds on burning 'witches' at the stake as women were evil seductresses that even managed to seduce many previous poopeys. In other words, they do seem to come around, it just takes 2000 years to do that.

What the 'holy see' still does not see however, is that contraceptive (by science and modern industry) was sent to us by 'GOD' as a way to help us remain sustainable on this Earth. It is also a tool sent to us by 'GOD' saying that we should take care of the ones we already have here, living, on Earth rather than bring more misery into this World. The rcc should go back to book burning.

Have you noticed how the Catholic Church has been advertising on TV for their flock to come back?

U.S. Catholic bishops oppose Obama birth-control plan

Of course they are going to oppose to it. They want women to keep popping out babies for them to brainwash, to rob them of their monies to support their sorry azzes and to molest them.

Without new babies, they will cease to exist. Remember, they need you more than you need them and their bs religion and invisible god that tells yo to hand your money over to them. That's all you are to these charlatans running these bs religious institution. You are their money flow, and money is their true god.

Tax all church and religions, or shut them all down.

Scrolled to the bottom of this thread after reading many post...

Thats all MSNBC has to do is put the words OBAMA and RELIGION in the same sentence and all the sheeple come to the feeding bowl.

WOW... amazing.... (goes back to things that matter.. like my family)

Let me see if I understand.......A woman for whatever reason wants an abortion, but once we have the miracle of conception we have Life........Unwanted Pregnancy + Abortion = murder.

Contraception use such as a condom or birth control pills is bad.....the use of either of these two methods stop conception thus no life in the womb is just as bad as............Murder?

So....no Abortion....no contraception (condom or birth control pills) we have the birth of a new unwanted baby that needs to be protected, nourished and cared for.........have I got it right it so far?

But who will step up to this child we saved from murder?

The Socialistic maybe even Communistic entitlement programs need to go because they are destroying the moral fabric of our nation.......have I got that right?

But how is this baby.........along with millions of others if contraception and abortion are made illegal.........what happens to ALL the BABIES that needs to be protected, nourished and cared for ?

I am just looking to understand.

Never mind

so who Really speaks for God ??..now a President meddles into family planning..the religious Nuts are on the other end, and Congress decides fate of Children..there is something here, in need of wholesome answers..unfortunately, NO ONE truly fits the bill..the holiest of the holy, is no where to be seen..perhaps, one day a celestial storm will have the remedy/ rapture......

The Socialistic maybe even Communistic entitlement programs need to go because they are destroying the moral fabric of our nation.......have I got that right?

Don't know if you are being sarcastic or for real. There is just no way for a public service to be able to destroy moral fabric. A public service can be misused by immoral people, yes.

Moral fabric can only be destroyed when we make bad choices such as lying, cheating, stealing, killing, etc. You know, the ten commandments (promises) as described by wise old men throughout the ages.

The moral fabric of our nation can only be destroyed by bad choices made by our politicians when they choose to implement actions for the wrong reasons, such as preemptive wars in case of WMDs.

If this is what you meant then I agree wholeheartedly with you.

I am just asking questions on what others have said and trying to get some answers.

Thank you for yours....it makes sense.

scrambolo

will assure you that the Roman Catholic Church has changed its position, THOUSANDS OF TIMES, on every conceivable subject over its 2000 year existence, including matters of sexuality and sexual behavior.

I don't think so. If I am wrong, please name one position on sexual behavioral that they have changed there mind on and please cite the official Church document on the original position and the official Church document on the revised position.

They are an institution which is governed by mere men and women just as are all institutions. To deny this truth is 'blind faith', which is actually no faith whatsoever!

They are an institution that is run by mere men and women who sin, but when the Church teaches on Faith and Morals she is protected from error by the Holy Spirit. If you don't have that Faith in the Holy Spirit, you should pray for it or leave the Church.

Read MT 16: 13 - 20. If God is good, wouldn't He make sure that humans can be confident that they can know what human actions He says are morally right and what human actions He says are morally wrong? Jesus founded the Catholic Church by appointing Peter as Her head. Jesus also sent the Holy Spirit to protect Her from teaching error. Jesus told Peter whatever you hold bound on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatever you hold loose on earth shall be held loose in heaven. When the Church exercises her Magisterial Teaching Authority through official Church documents on Faith and Morals humans can be confident that these are God's pronouncements about what human actions are morally right and what human actions are morally wrong. If you disagree, where does your moral authority come from? Also, as proof, it was also predicted about 2,000 years ago that the Catholic Church would survive until Jesus Second Coming. What other hierarchal human institution has survived that long—and predicted it would be so? Given these two facts, what are the odds that the Catholic Church surviving as it has is just a "coincidence" or the reason it survived is because one set of humans is more successful at "pulling the wool" over the rest of humanity?

The Bible came from the Catholic Church. It really becomes a question of authority. Catholics believe that the Church is the authority on Faith and Morals. (Read 1 Timothy 3:15.)

The Catholic church, and not the Bible is the foundation of Truth.

If you have left the Church, the Church and God will always welcome you back. Just go to confession. The Church always teaches that no sin is greater than God's mercy.

But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.

Shalom - good post!

In a statement issued Friday evening, the bishops said Obama's proposal "continues to involve needless government intrusion in the internal governance of religious institutions, and to threaten government coercion of religious people and groups to violate their most deeply held convictions."

"We will therefore continue - with no less vigor, no less sense of urgency - our efforts to correct this problem through the other two branches of government," the bishops said in urging Congress to take action to overturn the rule.

As well they should. Just because the article is quoting Catholic Bishops, don't assume they are the only ones upset by this. Most all the religions are, especially the conservative ones. Obama has way overstepped his authority and must be stopped.

Sex is not a right, nor is free contraception. And honestly, it is not free, everyone paying premiums to the insurance company that offers it is paying for it. Why not pay for your own and be responsible?! This is yet another area that has caused premiums to skyrocket as stupid mandates like this increase the cost of care.

The Bible came from the Catholic Church. It really becomes a question of authority. Catholics believe that the Church is the authority on Faith and Morals. (Read 1 Timothy 3:15.)

So the bible was written by man who decided that the gospel of Mary and the Agnostics were to be left out. Convenient. I thought the bible came from 'God'. At least that is what is sold as the Truth isn't it....

The Catholic church, and not the Bible is the foundation of Truth.

When the catholic church starts dealing with the Truth then call me. The truth behind all their historical sins, errors, murders and killings, rape, etc. They have a lot of confessions to do if not prison time for their crimes against humanity.

If you have left the Church, the Church and God will always welcome you back. Just go to confession. The Church always teaches that no sin is greater than God's mercy.

I only look for my 'God' which can be found in my heart and the wonderful life I share with my loved ones. My 'God' has never left me and I have never left my 'God'. IWhen the rcc stops breaking ANY of the ten commandments look me up.

To sin, or err, all that is required to correct (forgive) that sin is to acknowledge it in order to not make the same mistake again and say you are sorry to the one you have offended. Unless this process of self discovery is done spiritual weight accumulates on top of you until you can't even get out of bed anymore. It means you can not break the cycle. Heck, I felt the same kind of spiritual relief doing the 12 steps of AA with my sponsor. Hell is living the same thing over and over again, every day of your life, wishing for a different outcome. (not being able to break the cycle means you are stuck in your life)

But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.

It seems that priests, bishops, cardinals, and poopeys do not know how to behave in their own household. I can speak to my 'God' in a cave and do not need any clergy or church to represent me. My heart speaks to me at all times. Jesus, himself, said, all that I do you can do as well and better. John 14:12

Come clean instead of worrying about image.

Let's do away with the non-profit B.S.

They should pay taxes like everyone else.

edgewatervince don't get all giddy over that ad. Think of it like the brother of a pain in the neck teen who stormed out of the house telling him "its OK to come home Dad hasn't changed the locks" As for the rest of this Where in this statement do you find the governments right to impose its will on religions. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; In fact where in that do you see half the things the federal judiciay has been doing.

NON-Catholics know when they go to work at a Catholic organization; that it is CATHOLIC and therefore they shouldn't expect them to violate their consciences.

No one is "forced against their will" to go to work at a Catholic organization.

When the church leaves the realm of, well church, and enters into the BUSINESS of providing healthcare, they have entered into the realm of labor law.

They do not minister to their employees, they EMPLOY them.

They do not preach to their employees, they EMPLOY them.

They do not worship with their employees, they EMPLOY them.

They file for tax exempt status, calling themselves a non-profit, than they follow the same rules as all other non-profits. If they want to remain on their moral high horse, fine, but remain on it in the realm of religion.

The church has also has had a strict anti-divorce stance for thousands of years, should they be allowed to can everyone who gets a divorce???

Shalom2U,

RE: your post #1.70

Just a few comments on your post.

1.) You want citations, look them up yourself. I am NOT doing your homework for you. But here is a small starter: Many years ago priests WERE allowed to marry. Women were NOT allowed to participate in the celebration of the Mass. They were discriminated against. Much more such as married Popes and children of Popes. See Lucrita Borgia and (Rodrigo Borgia) Pope Alexander VI her FATHER.

2.) The Roman Catholic Church has ruled less than 75 times, in it's entire history, "Ex Cathdra". If you don't know the term, if you want the TRUTH, LOOK IT UP. Hint, it has to do with the rulling of infallibility by the RCC.

3.) Your suggestion that I pray for ANYTHING or "leave the church", is an example of arrogance and sinful pride. Is it your place or ANY LAY PERSON, or ANYONE ELSE to tell a Catholic to "leave the church"? I will pray -- FOR YOU!

4.) When you speak of the Bible, which VERSION of the Bible is your choice? As you may know there are, according to many bible scholors, including Catholic Scholors, several versions and hundreds of DIFFERENT translations (and I DON'T MEAN LANGUAGES). This may get you started if you REALLT want to know.

http://www.bible.ca/b-many-versions.htm

http://bible.org/article/why-so-many-versions

5.) Please don't worry about MY soul or salvation. We all have plenty to do to enhance GOD, not man or a church, saving our souls.

Finally, I doubt you will check out ANYTHING! You are the type person who believes BLINDLY! You did not mention Thomas Aquinas or Augustine of Hippo. As a practicing Catholic, you would do well to verse yourself in a basic understanding of their discertation like teaching on the word: FAITH! You may actually learn a thing or two about a thing or two! GOOD LUCK!

scrambolo post 1.77

You want citations, look them up yourself. I am NOT doing your homework for you. But here is a small starter:

I want you to prove where Church has changed positions on sexual morality. You said She has changed--the onus is on you to tell me which ones with proof. You have failed to do so. One can only assume you haven't provided any proof is because the Catholic Church has not changed its positions--but you can always prove me wrong but citing two different sources that contradict one another. Go for it.

Many years ago priests WERE allowed to marry.

They have always have been allowed to marry in the Latin Rite and in the Western Rite they can still if they were already married when they converted and also receive a special written dispensation from the Pope. Celibacy for Priests is a discipline, not a doctrine.

The Roman Catholic Church has ruled less than 75 times, in it's entire history, "Ex Cathdra".

The Church has ruled ex-cathedra only twice: The Doctrine of Mary's Assumption and the Doctrine of Her Immaculate Conception. That is only one form of the Church exercising Her Magisterial Teaching Authority. When the Church exercises Her Magisterial Teaching Authority she speaks infallibly on Faith and Morals, I suggest you read about the Magesterium in the Catechism of the Catholic Church which is on-line.

3.) Your suggestion that I pray for ANYTHING or "leave the church", is an example of arrogance and sinful pride. Is it your place or ANY LAY PERSON, or ANYONE ELSE to tell a Catholic to "leave the church"? I will pray -- FOR YOU!

Please pray for me; I need it. I never told you to leave the Church. Please see post #1.70. I said "If you have left the Church" that is a far cry from, "asking you to leave the Church."

4.) When you speak of the Bible, which VERSION of the Bible is your choice?

I know very well the difference between the Protestant Bible and the Catholic Bible and why. The verse I quoted and asked you to read are in both Bibles with the same citations.

5.) Please don't worry about MY soul or salvation. We all have plenty to do to enhance GOD, not man or a church, saving our souls.

Please pray for my soul. I want to spend Eternity in Heaven. I enhance God by enhancing His Church and showing my love for my fellow man. When I do that I help or enhance Jesus in the lives of myself and others.

Finally, I doubt you will check out ANYTHING! You are the type person who believes BLINDLY!

How did you come to that conclusion based on my posts?

You did not mention Thomas Aquinas or Augustine of Hippo. As a practicing Catholic, you would do well to verse yourself in a basic understanding of their discertation like teaching on the word: FAITH!

I have not read about them as deeply as I should have, but I have a read quite a bit. I did not mention them because even their teachings had little to do with the point I was making. If what I wrote is in contradiction to what they have written point those differences out. Be specific please. But remember, when we are talking about Church teaching, as esteemed as these individuals are in the eyes of the Church, their writing are not official Church teaching documents on Faith and Morals. In other words, their writings are not a part of the Magisterium. The Church is not exercising Her Magisterial Teaching Authority through them. That being said, their writings are spiritually some of the best writings ever done in all of human history and the Church acknowledges that.

Actually, he played the republicans for fools and the catholic church was happy to assist. Women will receive their contraceptives covered by health insurance no matter where they work. Misson accomplished while the republicans and the church made fools of themselves.

Babina understands.

It pays to study an issue if you plan to comment on it!

What the church believes are its convictions are increasingly laughable bromides that amount to tilting at windmills. Or more aptly, they're fiddling while the Vatican burns.

OK Sugarba, let's go worship mother earth.

Nice strawman, genius. Perhaps when you have an actual inkling about me, an ad hominem might carry some weight. Let me know when you have an actual response worth responding to. Until then, in terms of nature, I'd be more worried about birds nesting in your empty skull, if I were you.

The Bishops need to oppose their Priests abusing young children of their congregations with the same vigor they are opposing all womens right of choice.

Catholicism is the most rapidly diminishing religion in the US, even among Latinos. People are tiring of antiquated "bone worshiping"and "pot slinging".

Worshiping mother earth makes a lot more sense than believing in the Catholic church or any organized religion for that matter. When they pay taxes they get a voice in public policy. if they don't like it they can get out of the healthcare business and stick to religion.

Nice try Sugarpa..... Go hug tree. Oh ya, and plant one while you're at it.

True Patriot: For you to play in?

Tyler, Tyler, Tyler,

I cannot say this nicely, so I'll just say go
home and crawl in your closet until you
grow up.

Gawd..........

Folks - True Patriot is a troll. Best response to a troll is to ignore him.

LindaM? You in NO WAY speak for all Catholics. Women should have the absolute RIGHT to take birth control. Without it, we may as well all change our last name to Duggar. More birth control, less abortions. The Catholic church is a business and should absolutely be subjected to the same laws as anyone else. Not only that, but what about BC for medical reasons? I almost ended up with a hysterectomy with my second child due to a long, exhausting labor that left my baby in distress requiring an emergency cesarean. Are you trying to tell me that the Catholic church trumps my right to not die in childbirth? A hysterectomy, after all, eliminates a woman's ability to have more children, therefore, it is birth control.

I don't like the idea of abortion, nor would I have one myself, but I DO believe in a woman's right to make her own choices. Until men can give birth and the law would then be 100% equal or they're held 100% financially accountable for 18 years for the children they have a 50% hand in creating, they have absolutely NO SAY in what a woman chooses for her life, no matter what her religion.

Oh, and again LindaM? Your claim about people calling themselves Catholic even though they haven't been to church in years is RIDICULOUS. My lovely neighbor, can't get past the hypocrisy of the cover ups for molesting pedophiles and is sick and tired of having a basket shoved in her face, not once, but twice during mass asking for money. Just because you don't get in the car and go to church, doesn't make you any less a Catholic, because I'll tell you what, my neighbor, is one of the most loving, giving, kind and religious people I know. Who you are as a person, how you treat others and how much you love God makes you more of a Catholic than showing off your fancy clothes every Sunday. You're a brainwashed fanatic imo.

@true patriot,

Ahhh, no you're no true patriot. Not even close. A closed minded, hateful individual, yes, patriot, nope, not even close.

babina I stand by my church in this and if they try to impose their will on any other church I will stand with them too.

The Catholic church say today that they don't buy the Obama-Lies.

No deal.

NON-Catholics know when they go to work at a Catholic organization; that it is CATHOLIC and therefore they shouldn't expect them to violate their consciences.

No one is "forced against their will" to go to work at a Catholic organization.

what a dork-those whited seplicars are a joke-thieves and pedifiles-bunch of corrupt wackos!!!!

Right on, Surg. Well said.

The bishops are a bunch of pedophile misogynists and YOU think they are moral? You right wing fanatics are dumber than a bag of hammers. Obama is right...PEOPLE have rights, NOT institutions. The right wing wants to federalize women's bodies, all the while whining about 'smaller govt'. what LIARS!

You give us a Catholic rag link to read to prove something? Who cares what the church and its minions think? We aren't talking about God here...we are talking about health care and the clergy knows nothing about needing birth control. It is none of their business what birth control people get and they need to work on their own serious issues before complaining about what other people are doing.

No credibility on sexual matters, if you know what I mean.

The problem all of you have is you think christianity is the buildings or the church organizations. Its not, it is the people, the people who believe in God and in Jesus. Jesus wasn't some wimp, He walked into his Fathers house and drove the moneychangers out. He didn't say please. If the churches don't stand firm on matters of faith and morals what good are they. People and that includes priests are God's works in progress, They are fallible, but a loving Father doesn't throw his misguided sons to the wolves. He stands at the gate with a lamp to show them the way home.

Isn't it grand that we have a separation of church and state, in order that churches can remain tax free?

It sure would be a nice stroke to our National Debt if we started taxing all of these lowlife cults that can't, even for a moment, stay the hell out of the political arena!

What are you talking about? The Bishop have supported the democrat party on every issue including union issues, universal healthcare, and education. Most catholics support the democrats even if the democrats support nothing that the catholic church stand for.

tax 'em ANYWAY

Obama's "compromise" is a ridiculous sham. Anything paid by an insurance company (including claims against the policies, employee wages and benefits, dividends to shareholders, utility bills at their offices, postage, lobbying costs, taxes, charitable contributions, advertising, etc.) is indeed paid for by those who pay the premiums. Usually this is a combination of employers and employees.

Anything mandated into the policy by third parties (like government) has one basic effect - to raise the premiums.

A slicker deal would have been to adopt the rider ploy - require all policies to include an available rider (paid by the employee, say $1.14 a month) that covers birth control, etc. Then the employers, insurance companies, government, and church can all say that the costs for these services are paid by the employees, not the religious-affiliated employers.

Rick, different times, different approach. Pope John XXIII cared about people, and the changes he encouraged were about taking care of people here on earth.

Back then the old-guard bishops rankled at his populist approach; but many of the most important changes in the Church over the past century were a result of his brief but influential papacy.

Yes, over time the Church has been active in supporting unions, universal healthcare, and education. You don't hear so much about that now, though.

Increasingly it has become more about power and less about people; and I have to say that the current Pope reminds me of Emperor Palpatine (in Star Wars). It seems that he cares more about controlling his 'flock' than taking care of it.

Even forty years ago, many American Catholics regularly used various forms of birth control. They still do. This contraception issue stems from both the church hierarchy and the religious conservative movement.

You know, neither group has to use contraceptives if they do not want to. But they are trying to regulate the lives of people who feel differently about this -- they want to make it difficult if not impossible for everyone. And that is where they are overstepping their boundaries.

And yes, many of them -- particularly the lay religious conservatives -- are in the Boehner "anything we have to do to defeat Obama" camp, though not all of them are.

If we allow religion -- any religion -- to dominate our political system, we are in for dire consequences. Want a theocracy? Try Iran or Saudi Arabia. Or go to a country where there is a state religion. America doesn't have a state religion -- for good reason -- and we should resist any attempt to impose the beliefs of any one religion on everybody!

mailman. first, this is already the law in more than half the states. second, by covering birth control, the price of the policy goes DOWN in the vast majority of cases. (for blue cross/blue shield, it actually drops the cost signifigantly, because they paid more for the ability to subtract things from coverage.) the rider is not a bad idea, but what do you do then? give those that want contraception coverage a refund?

Sikchimp I'm sorry but you have that wrong. If the insurance company can charge individual same as those who opt out do you give a refund to those who opt out.

Morrigan I don't know where you get your information but you are wrong. There is a reason that Catholic Charities is the largest charity in the world. The Church has not forgotten the poor. According to these HHS ruling Catholic Charities falls under same rules as anyone else even it is clearly a Catholic run operation. The fact that they don't ask them what religion they are when food is offered or housing breaks it from its strictly religious exemption. I'm sorry but do you suggest that we require a baptismal certificate before we help with food and shelter.

Actually most bishops are conservative in religion but liberal in wanting society to care for the poor. It is the reason we started Catholic charities in the first place. And we never ask the homelss if they are Catholic We never demand that the people coming to our hospitals follow our faith. We don't even ask parents who want their kids to attend our schools to follow our faith if they aren't Catholic but we usually require the parents take their children to their church every week. When I attended the nuns sided with the civil rights protestors, told us that the war in Vietnam was a matter of conscience.

And vote for those who stood up for continued access to that healthcare...

And, Real Army Wife, don't forget all the children born to Catholic parents through the mortal sin of in vitro fertilization or even fertility drugs...I guess they're all devil babies or something.... Ridiculous.

You can't win--damned if you do want children and damned if you don't.

The bishops have no moral authority on these issues with anyone I know

Dear Family Woman, I absolutely agree with you. The Moral indignity is laughable. I don't believe Invitro, fertility drugs or birth control are sins, of any kind.

Family women the Catholics do not believe the sins of the parents are visited on their children. Since all the children are Gods children that kind of foolish thinking would be non-sensical. Remember Christ said "Suffer the children to come to me" I was Illigitamate and never once in 12 years did a priest or nun ever tell me I was bad because of it. The name calling came from people like you.

And we should start taxing these lowlifes!

I have wondered about the wisdom of giving marital and sexual advice from a group who doesn't indulge (ostensibly)

Agreed.

tag - You also should say businesses which are subsidized by Federal Money

I would be perfectly happy if my Religion restricted the Catholic colleges to Catholics. Then maybe more of our kids could get in. Don't worry we won't we aren't as petty as you are. That said when you come to our colleges please be advised there are shrines and we won't remove them for you.

Unless they start PAYING TAXES like the rest of us!

They spend half their time in politics anyway. So, start TAXING THESE GODDAM CHURCHES!

yup - simple solution that ain't gonna happen...

Better solution you buy and staff the 1 in 6 hospitals the Catholics run then we won't have to do your job for you. The care of the country's people is the responsibility of society and government, but you haven't done it which is the only reason that we have. You can also pony up and buy the Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian and Jewish hospitals all of whom are doing the job government and society is responsible for.

And that is just the tip of the proverbial
iceberg MM-584706.

Thanks!

Can the U.S. Catholic Bishops have any idea how little respect America has for their "moral indignation" ?

You got that right. The rank and file Catholics have ignored the Bishops for the last 45 years. My sister in law is a nun and even she views them as little more than bitter, out of touch, self righteous old men.

The problem is the weak Dems in the Congress.

No. the problem is the goddam cowardly catholics who don't STAND UP TO THESE PEDOPHILE LOWLIFES. They keep sending money to the cult, feeding the machine, and if 70% of the catholics truly oppose this, then WHY DON'T THEY AFFECT CHANGE IN THAT FOUL CULT!!??

agree

the organization doesn't provide a METHOD. The laity has no METHOD to intervene in church decisions. It's dictatorship - look t what happened to the offending pedophiles - TRANSFERRED (with no notice to the receiving parish WHY)

The "Jesus" I read about would be HORRIFIED
(caps on purpose) by these misogynistic,
pedophile supporting, money grubbing bastards
who are hoarding millions of dollars in assets
instead of giving it to the poor............

I am so depressed by these "people".......

Plan your family however you want just don't force us to be party to something we consider immoral. I'll bet more than half of the Catholics who do use contraceptives would say they stand by the Church on this. People can stray from the path of rigtheousness but churches cannot.

If the religious right is so much against recreational sex, they why the pedophilia in the church and homosexuality in Evangelical elites? Fun for men, but not for women who need to take their reproductive rights with responsibility since they are the ones who are left holding the baby.

Damn Straight! Where were these pointy had bastards when their parishioners were complaining about the pedophiles they had in their parishes. Oh I know their asses were covering it up and moving those sick MFers to some other parish so they could have access to a fresh crop or children. THIS IS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA DAMN IT! And the last time I checked We don't take too kindly to ANY CHURCH INSTITUTION Shoving their interpretation of FAITH on any everyone! If you want to get my dander up keep pushing this SH*T and US AMERICAN WOMEN will make the OCCUPY MOVEMENT look like a GRATEFUL DEAD CONCERT! Here's ticket MEN we women will stop using contraceptives when you chop your PR*CKS OFF! HOW BOUT THAT!

Some priest did condem the priest who took advantage of these kids, but you were not in church to hear it.

Good for the SOME! Just keep a close eye on the rest of them to avoid a repeat of that should keep them plenty damn busy enough to stay out of the business of American WOMEN! Fee free the brow beat any practicing Catholic women who still attend church with is Sh*T but as for me and mine BUTT OUT!

yo RICK - funny thing - one might have expected it to be a HIGHER LEVEL CONDEMNATION, eh?

GA Girl

You go girl!!!

Rick, I don't remember too many of them condemning it OUTSIDE the church.

A nun in Australia, who is beatified, was harrassed and reprimanded for standing up to her bishop and insisting that a pedophilic priest be removed.

I have no respect for bishops or their organization. Tax them, ignore them.

GA girl, I would usually not comment in a positive manner to posts with the colorful language in yours, but I have to say that if I could give you a standing ovation I would. The part about us not using birth control when they chop off their parts and the bowling ball and the never getting it again. I spat out my tea and almost fell off my chair. You said how I felt but wouldn't have worded so...interestingly. Hilarious and so true!

GA Girl, you are one kickass great woman
in my book! Stay strong!

What a bunch of male ass wipes start trying to tell WOMEN how to be WOMEN I get a little testy! Ram, if they can discuss and talk under our clothes I say turn around is fair play. I am SICK of their CRAP!

Ga girl back at you do whatever you please that is between you and God .In this instance butt out of church policy.

GA Girl: you may want to get yourself a good book on biology. The 'bowling ball' you speak of does not pass through the urethra. The urethra is for 'peeing' ... the 'birth canal' is where you pass your bowling ball.

I frankly do give an damn what orifice the bowling ball passes through the point is Men have NO f-ing business telling women how to use or not to use contraceptives unless they CAN pass the equivalent of a DAMN baby through their NUBBY LITTLE HAPPY WANDS!! GOT IT!! Or better yet removing the wands and the everyone's problems are solved.

lonereb The last time I checked you got your damn church accommodation because you get to keep your hypocrisy and legalistic bullsh*t and the insurance company eats the cost of contraceptive that even all Child bearing Catholic women take in America. No one except those in your damn church gives a sh*t what these Bishops want or think and even your own parishioners do as they damn well please. The day the Catholic church begins to dictate government policy in this country is the day the we will line up those pointy hat wearing bastards and send them straight to hell.

I am SICK of MEN who can even bear children or menstruate try to tell WOMEN what WOMEN need and WANT when it comes to pregnancy prevention. How about we pass some "KEEP THE SPERM SAFE" legislation in this county. Since SPERM is so damn SPECIAL and SACRED why don't us WOMEN push for legislation to OUTLAW Yacking OFF!! Let's create a special task force to make sure that every single man who thinks sperm is need of protection KEEP EVERY DAMN ONE OF THE SAFE AND WARM IN THEIR TESTICLES! That's right MEN if you put your hand on it to do anything but PEE we women will be forced to perform a citizen's arrest bring the full weight of the law on your illegal use of hand friction! IF you're in the bathroom for more then 5 minutes alarms will go off and we WOMEN will get to sit around and talk and pontificate about how men don't have the intellect to keep their sperm safe and protected. And may all such men die happily of blue balls!

exactly! the catholic followers have been sitting on their hands over all the pedophilia, too. where is the conscience? where is the outrage?

holy cow, are the majority of the catholics without any conscience? what does it take??!!

the first step of the 12 step process is admission that there IS A PROBLEM...

But you are perfectly okay with federal judges telling christian children what they can and can't say in violation of the first amendment, right.

The foundation of liberal moral values is responsibility, character and decency. Conservative values are power, greed and Aynn Rand selfishness.

true patriot---no-not asking you to ''give up your moral beliefs''-just stop insisting that the law of the land be subrogated to the laws of the church. no one would be forcing birth control on anyone. just making it available to those who want it.

Yes dis, did good point!!! Libs represent responsibility, decency, and character. Curious.... Where doed killing an unborn child fit in there?

I am a Catholic and I don't personally know any Catholics who haven't used birth control. Is it moral high ground to have children that you cannot afford to or have the parenting skills to raise?

given that your own right-wing anti-abortion website attributes OVER TWO THIRDS of all abortions to catholic and christian women... why don't YOU answer that!?

http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html

That's right, go to the Abortion NO! website. Here's what it says:

Who's having abortions (religion)?
Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical".

So, Oregon Patriot. Do you have the courage to own that, and answer your own question?

DMorgan.... It has nothing to do with what stats so about the women that get abortions. EVERYTHING to do with what the catholic church believes as a religion. Please read and understand the issue.....

true patriot----lack of prenatal care in this country kills more actual full term babies than abortion ''kills unborn child''. the united states ranks in the top 10 in infant mortality -----higher than many third world countries. many of these deaths could be prevented if the mothers has access to birth control. for many the cost of birth control pills is unaffordable. if the catholic church objects to providing birth control why don't they let the faithful catholic employees opt out. problem solved!

dmorgan- so the catholic church believes everything is about religion huh? when did pedophilia become a religion?

of course you dont need birth control or abortions when you attack little boys

Many of these death would be prevented by the use of a 50 cent condom. You are addressing a whole seperate issue. As well your 'plan' still has the church paying for something they believe is immoral.

Patriot - We all have to pay for thing we think are immoral. I have to pay for Iraq. Plenty of people think other government functions are immoral. This is pretty simple. No employer, regardless of whether or not it is a religious institution has a right to force its morality on its employees. To do so violates the religious freedom of the employees. But more importantly, until the church is subject to taxation like the rest of us, they get no voice period.

oh... but the church also opposes covering condoms with health insurance. Can you say HYPOCRITE? I knew you COULD. and then some seem to TRY to claim that increased access to CONTRACEPTION increases ABORTION? I might be progressive but I'm NOT F U C K I NG STUPID!!

true- birth control pills also are used for women who actually become sick, occasionally very sick, when they have their period. these pills do much more for many women than preventing pregnancy.

I think it is immoral for anyone to tell another person to be sick because of your morals. they are not mine. and no pedophile has any moral authority over just about anyone

as for costs have you priced the normal cost of delivering a baby lately? thousands

Hey Charlie does that same logic apply to Planned Parenthood?

Canary, I would think you can pay for your own condoms at 50 cents. The church will not be paying.

Good point Rich, lets focus on the two percent you are refering too and then say one percent of them works for a catholic organization.

Yes. It does. Can you cite an example of planned parenthood forcing its morality on its employees? And planned parenthood is not in the business of providing healthcare for profit. And don't give me your anti abortion BS. It is a woman's right to choose and nobody's right to criticize. Planned Parenthood is valuable organization in our society that provide many healthcare services other than abortion. You can call yourself a true patriot all you want but that doesn't make it so.

Charlie, now we are getting somewhere. But don't give me your BS that I can not oppose federal dollars going to an organization that performs more abortions than any other organization in the country. I am of the belief that a person soul is born with conception. Therefore, abortion is nothing short of murder in my mind. And why? Because a born person has decided to use their 'choice' to kill an unborn person. I don't judge them. I simply DO NOT Want to contribute through my tax dollars. Not really sure about the true patiot crack at the end, but no matter I can see we are thankfully two different people. Have a good evening.

I thought the Catholic Church was against abortions, however then why do they had exceptions

First off, condoms are not 100% effective, no matter how well made the condom is. There is always that slight chance of unintended pregnancy.

Secondly, this planet can hardly feed the lives living on it. Producing more lives (i.e. unborn babies as you put it) only adds to that strain. And like anything under stress, it will snap at a certain point. At that point who pays the price for such a breakdown from our planet? No one person will do that - if Jesus comes down a second time and does his little "miracle" again, I'll saw off my own leg (and then I'll go to Jesus himself and ask him what took so damn long).

Furthermore, birth control pills in itself won't stop STDs or pregnancy. Using it in conjunction with condoms though can do wonders to stop the above, but like everything, it's not a guarantee (even the notion of whether I'll enter Heaven or Hell, or even if Hell is such a bad place anyways - or even if the Christian "hell" exists at all?).

I know women wouldn't want to have a severe burden (AKA a child) placed upon them, because children are alive too.

Our jails are already overcrowded, and now you want to overcrowd our orphanages too? Newsflash for ya: Unlike jails, orphanages are built to house kids who HAVE nowhere to go and who haven't done anything worth being placed in there anyways (at least not anything that they were at fault for).

You kick orphans to the curb, they have to steal to live. They fall at risk of dying in the cold. To me, death that way is even more cruel and unusual than abortion - because the child is alive to watch their hope fade as they slowly start losing what they were given. They were "born" at that point - can't say the same for potential lives slain under abortion, can you?

P.S. You yourself live in Oregon, yes? Your title implies that. Come over to Springfield some time, I'd love to yell at your face in person. Oh, and if you bring a gun, do be aware there's a police station not far from where I'd be meeting you.

P.S.S. A message to Americans - if you decide to start a family, do me a favor: please visit your local orphanage and give a child in despair his hope back. Adopt, and make hope blossom in life today.

All the arguements about improving the human condition by managing population and making hormone drugs available to women who have a medical need misses the point with the catholic church.

The church tries to convince us that it believes this is all in god's hands. Abortion is prohibited even when the life of the mother is at stake. If a woman dies giving birth, that's just the way it is. If children are born into poverty to starve or be orphaned in countries that can not afford to provide medical care and clean water, then that is the way it is. It then becomes the obligation of the faithful to provide charity to keep them alive and eventually having more babies. This charity must be provided of course by congregants donating money to the church to support its "good works." The church has no interest or investment whatsoever in preventing suffering only in alleviating it once it occurs, maybe.

Mother Teresa would have been a much more effective advocate for the poor if she had helped the slum dwellers in India limit the size of their families instead of constantly helping them add to the pool of children she could then take in and use as a fund raising tool for the church.

Churches should have no tax exempt status in this country at all. Personal religious values should have no place in the secular legal system of this country. Individuals should be free and unencumbered to practice their individual religious beliefs as long as those beliefs do not inflict harm on others, but there should never be an instance when the secular laws of this country should in anyway accomodate them or give them special status. The catholic church has no problem with the little people suffering as long as the hierarchy can sit above them in judgement. (If you want proof of this structure, just examine the sacrament of "reconciliation" or as it used to be know less euphemistically "confession" where you are required to kneel before a mortal man in a priests robe, confess all your misdeeds and mistakes and then say all the prayers they require of you as penance.)

True, who is the bigger fool, the one who can see the fact you've done nothing but defend your Christian religion's right to conquer the world (not directly worded like that, but heavily implied just by how you act) and how you try to paint Obama (a black man) as the criminal here, or the fool that follows the one who is just an overall promoter of murder and oppression?

Some things about your "God" that you may not know:

-He goaded Cain into killing Abel, but Abel was really the first murderer (in technical retrospect) simply because Abel killed the sheep he was tending. Ironically, sheep are also considered alive, and Adam and Eve never had to kill animals while they were in Eden (nor did Abel or his mom and dad eat what they gave to God). Meanwhile, Cain was embracing his father's own punishment (you shall work the land, and it will produce thorns and thistles - Genesis 3:17 and 18 I believe). If anything, by rejecting what Cain was offering, God was condoning and encouraging bloodshed - and then he has the gall to punish Cain for HIS (God's) own crime of deception. Yeah, your god is a hypocrite alright.

-Sodom and Gomorrah. Anyone realize that the crime in this case wasn't homosexuality, but rather rape? Because Jacob's sons ended up killing an entire kingdom when their king raped one of Jacob's daughters (Dinah and Shechem - Genesis 34). So it's okay for God to commit genocide in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah (well, really, because they were in actuality attempting to rape his own angels - Genesis 19, read until you hit Verse 11), but when a woman like Jacob's own little princess (Dinah) is raped, he does nothing?! Sounds like God hates women, really.

-In the Old Testament, the Jews are the good guys; but then come the New Testament, the Jews are now evil due to a malignant group of idiots within them - and then of course Jesus' messengers who preach his message AFTER death turn around and start pretending like that crap never happened? Real big contradiction there.

-He kicked Lucifer out of heaven, but did he even once stop for a second and actually listen to what the guy had to say? Lucifer could've prevented Eve's little flop if he wanted to, but him doing it was his way of payback for God kicking him to the curb and basically being an ignorant prick.

None of these really deal with the subject matter at hand, the fact that these Catholic Overlords are denying what Obama believes - and I agree with - to be a way to not only save this world, but also to help women make decisions about their health, regardless of their religious affinity.

Also, I'd like to make one last statement: Sure I'm drinking whiskey. But it's called Mountain Dew - I haven't had a drop of alcohol intentionally in my life! So I'm only guilty of caffeine consumption, which is not illegal in this country!

Let's hear some more of your little liar's rhetoric. I'm always up for exposing liars and their idiocy.

Hey Charlie, Planned Parenthood is not a religious institution. This is about forcing religious institutions to conform to some government dictate that goes against their religious beliefs. This is about the first amendment. This is about freedom to worship as you choose. Any woman, anywhere, can get birth control and probably for free at Planned Parenthood as well as a number of other options. So, let's stop complaining about the Catholic Church. No one has to work for them. Get a job somewhere else. That is what freedom is all about. It is about the freedom to choose where you work, who you work for, and whether or not you want contraceptives. But, you don't have the right to force someone to pay for your contraceptives just cause you don't want to. Especially a religious institution. They are protected by the Constitution. You don't like it? Change the Constitution.

And Crimsoncujo - you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You might need to stop drinking that Mountain Dew. I think it's effecting your brain.

does anyone find it disturbing , that 98% of Catholics use birth control? If they were so true to there faith would they use birth control? Yet they sit in church every Sunday being preached to on what they can and can not do, and then go home and do what they want anyway. This is a little hypocritical isn't it? Further more i worked as a nurse for a Catholic Hospital and the Ins provided all Womens health Care including birth control. So why the up roar? Most Catholic Hospital already provide this from what i understand. At least it does in western New York.

Dis then if you believe that the foundation of liberalism is responsibility, TAKE IT. There are a whole bunch of hospitals run by churches, not only Catholic, that should have been built and staffed by the government for its people. Our government failed in this responsibility which is why there are religious run hospitals in the first place. You and all your liberal friends are welcome to pony up the money buy, staff and run these hospitals the way you should have in the first place. Then we can get out of the business and return to our core business teaching morals.

Kim Heitz - the catholic church is well aware that most of its members practice artificial birth control. The church however also has this little mechanism called "confession" or "reconciliation" that allows you to kneel in front of a priest, confess your "sin" of birth control and be directed to do a penance of saying a certain number of certain prayers, maybe make a donation, and promise never to do it again. Of course because all men and women are weak and sinful they will do the same thing again, go back to the priest and confess again. Really, its easy to violate the teachings of the church for your entire life and still get to heaven. You just have to be willing to spend some time on your knees in front of some man, say a few prayers and pay some money.

Hmmmm. I wonder how many men have that fantasy?

Real Army Wife.........Exactly !

You forget this isn't about birth control or whether or not you think the Catholic Church is moral. It is about the government's right to tell religious institutions what they have to do even if it goes against their religious beliefs, which is unconstitutional. Supporting and defending the Constitution is something the President of the United States swears to do and this President has broken that oath of office.

This is about wether an employer has the right, no matter what the reason, to withhold healthcare to women. It's about the right to equal access and privacy. As a catholic and a woman I had no issue requiring an entity, even a religious one, that accepts federal funds to provide equal access to healthcare. Now, the church isn't even being asked to pay. The insurance companies will pay. This is about The American Council of Bishops controling the women who work for the church, this is about them not wanting the women to have access to birth control. I find their moral indignation hypocrital. This isn't about the practicing of religion which is protected by the constitution it's about sexist business practices.

Wrong, Real Army Wife, This is about the way our federal government has shredded the first amendment of the constitution which your husband swore to protect and defend, It states:Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people to peaceably assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Where in that does it say if somebody doesn't want to hear something religious the judge can tell a christian child he can't say it? Such a ruling was made by the federal district court in San Antonio. Where in that does it say cops can pepper spray protestors? And yes requireing the church to pay for something that goes against their core principles does affect the free exercise thereof.

they aren't asking them to pay, the insurance companies are picking up the bill now. If the constitution is a blanket cover for the church then the courts couldn't prosecute the priests that abused children or the hierarchy that buried it. Where is the oversight for abuses? Should we leave that up to Rome as well? There are even limits on exercising ie: polygamy, animal abuse, child abuse, human sacrifice.

Real Army Wife - you are correct. The convoluted attempts by political opponents to make this into some kind of constitutional issue are laughable.

cecelia----my very catholic parents had 8 children. each baby added stress to a very unhappy situation. my parents could handle 2 or 3 children but 8 made for a very unhappy childhood. my mother would have thought of birth control as sent by god. how ironic---

Not the push for contraceptives... the push for access to contraceptives. The ability to avoid unwanted pregnancies (while accepting the reality that we are a sexual species) will save the country money in the long run... one reason the insurance companies aren't complaining about this.

and that's interesting that the ONLY church to oppose "birth control" is catholic. Just keep increasing that herd. make more babies so that we can have more contributions... IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY - any concept of "other" issues is NULL AND VOID!

Cecillia - No one is pushing anything on any one Making contraceptives available is free choice - take it or not

The problem is cost - upwards from $600 to $1,000 a year

Women working in a kitchen or cleaning bed pans in these institutions are not your high wage earners This choice makes it easier for these women who could otherwise not afford it

And Cecellia I take it you're a woman - contraceptives are just not for birth control but are also used for women who have problems with their periods

Correct! Birth control of any merit costs at lot and up until now most women have had to eat the cost or line up a the clinic which is based on income the way. It takes hours of waiting to get your little brown bag of goodies. If men had to go through all this Sh*T you can believe that things would be cheaper and easier and Obama is trying to make it better for WOMEN which in the end may actually benefit men a well.

Meanwhile, no one is complaining religiously or economically about the coverage for viagra. A nation of hypocrits.

Cecelia, surely you don't believe the nonsense you just spouted? O, please be a troll!! Yes, less children in poor households CAN mean the parents get enough education to get out of poverty. Either you are seriously brainwashed or blind. Look around you! No one is forcing contraceptives on anyone, but the difference between a household with limited funds and 7 kids to feed and clothe, educate, and care for is much different than one with 2 kids in it.

Family lines? Eugenics? Robbing America of people? What planet are you from? America is stuffed full of people and the planet is too. You think if a family has two or three kids the species will die out?

I really wonder where you were educated or if you have been? Are you kept in a small room and fed propaganda or something? I can't even wrap my head around how clueless your arguments for no access to birth control are...did you even read what the topic is about? No one is forcing anyone to use birth control. Wow...the only people in this whole discussion who are trying to force anyone to do anything are the Bishops. They are trying to force their beliefs on anyone who works at a business they happen to be affiliated with and keep women under their thumbs. I am really sad for you if you believe what you wrote.

And my in-laws had seven children and were happy as clams. No fighting, no stress, just everyone working together and loving each other. Your comments are inane.

Considering Rick Perry is anything but a Catholic and he is speaking on the side of the church in this it has in his opinion less to do with contraception and more to do with the first amendment. Also he knows if this is forced on the Catholic church two things will happen. His church will be next and he is going to have to find a way to get medical care to an area of mostly non-Catholics in the Ark-La-Tex. So will the governor of Arkansas because the church will not bend on this.

You're partially correct Sam. The bigger reason is the realization by the Republican Party of the rapid improvement in the economy and the need to return to the culture wars. Look for the Republican base to be fed more of the old 3 G's distractions of God, Gays and Guns plus the the old standbys of hatred and bigotry toward Mexicans & Muslims. Soon the Sharia Law hoax and "headless bodies in the desert will be back in faux news and republican radio shows.

Well said Sharky --- Well Said.

It's about women having access to the health care they need, unfettered by the catholic church.

Gotta love it when Dave comes back -- longing for the days of Dumbya Bush in the Oval Office to bring us another Great Depression...

So refreshing...

It is about a group of pedophiles and pedophile enablers telling anyone about "morals". they ought to be in jail.

why arent the bishops cleaning their own house? why arent they worried about perverts as priests.

dave if you grab your ears firmly and pull firmly you might just alleviate the smell of fecal matter that is so pervasive in your olfactory sensors.

Dave, you can take your viagra and shove it.

Dave, good try. Trolling again? You are just wrong.

B.S. Dave

They do have access to health care regardless of the Catholic Church. There are free clinics and Planned Parenthood everywhere. Your comments are ridiculous.

Florida, free clinics are salary and insurance based. Women who work for the church that are covered by any insurance are ineligible.

Real Army Wife did you ever think the church may not bend to your will and take a different route? Like getting out of the business and leaving those people out of work instead. Catholic Charities did that over same-sex adoption.

No way.... universities, hospitals, primary and secondary education, office staffs for the assorted diocese and parishes and various catholic charities. They might as well close up shop completely.

We can control our population, given the chance. Dump the religion.

You can control the population without forcing any particular religion to do your bidding. Just go to Planned Parenthood. Contraceptives abound there. This is not about birth control, it is about religious freedom. And once that is gone, your religion, or your rights no matter what they are, will disappear just like that.

I haven't forgotten the Bush -Cheney neocon travesty. Conservatism has trashed America since Ronald Reagan. Someday the right will take its place in history as a failed experiment to resurrect the Confederacy, and the nation will turn to a rebirth of human rights and dignity.

Big difference "Patriot" between providing access and banning what's already legal.

'ressurrect the cofederacy'..... Now I understand you. You'r ea nut job. You are officially tuned out.

Libs please undertand, someday the right will be in the white house

Everyone still remembers the economic, banking and housing catastrophes that the last right-wing nutjobs in the Oval Office brought us. No thanks!

Now that is funny DMorgan!!!! You are a stand up comedian now)))) Make no mistake that crisis has been perpetuated over the last 30 years by bankers, politicians, greed, and liars. Nice try though.

Make no mistake that crisis has been perpetuated over the last 30 years by bankers, politicians, greed, and liars.

Most of whom have been Republican or conservative.

gee "pat" - someday my prints will come and I can see those pictures too.

UNDERSTAND THIS - as it stands, the rightwingnutreligionazis have shot their wad in congress and attempted to subvert the Presidency. It will be a cold day in mythical HELL before the electorate will succumb to theocratic IDIOCY...but IF it happens, then COMES THE REVOLUTION!! and all of the power that is the gummint will not be able to withstand "the American Spring".

Call me when one of these Bishops passes an 8 pound bowling ball through their urethra. Their thoughts and opinions might have some credibility then.

Culheath, when you do the math let me know the breakdown of dems and repubs in congress and the white house over the last thirty years. Would be interesting to see if you are correct. even though you have no idea at this time. Stick to known facts please.

Hey canary, if that's the case..... I'll see you on the front lines.

True Patriot in Oregon - We already had a president overstepping his authority, obviously Bush and Cheney was just a bad dream and Iraq didn't happen

former sniper - ONE SHOT ONE KILL.

Barbara, the all lib congress approved EVERYTHING. Were you sleeping?

Nice canary.... I am former Delta. See you in the streets.... Or maybe you wont see me....

If you will give me 67 Democrats in the Senate & 292 Democrats in the House of Representatives, you Republicans can put any one of your demented members in the Presidency. You would get a chance to see what the current situation with a do-nothing, good for nothing Congress.

oh ok, here you go Larry, i give it to you.

Culheath, when you do the math let me know the breakdown of dems and repubs in congress and the white house over the last thirty years. Would be interesting to see if you are correct. even though you have no idea at this time. Stick to known facts please.

Try reading...I said Republicans and conservatives...even dems can be conservative. This crisis is not a liberal invention.

Canary and Pat, I'm pretty sure we can have this argument without that kind of talk. Keep that trash to yourselves.

of course, don't you know their mantra ? BOHICA (bend over her it comes again)

yeah, don't forget this is the institution that used to treat mental illness, epilepsy and other disorders by declaring the person "possessed by the devil" and performing exorcisms.

The same institution that tormented scientists for finding scientific proof the earth resolves around the sun.

The same institution that justified anti-semitism by claiming the Jews killed Jesus.

This religious institution like most have historically used fear to manipulate people into doing what they want (often donating large sums of money to fund church projects or not converting to another religion). Looks like they've got the GOP running scared. Do you think these guys have signed the GOP up for a ride on their fear train!!

Yes, the pandora box has been open to the demand of religious organizations to be exempt from federal law, human rights and other protections of the individual against the abuse of power. In the future let's hope that the Christians will have to observe Sharia law, while those of use who believe in the separation of church and state will not have to be subject to either.

Good point -- if the Catholics get this why wouldn't the Muslin get the sme rulings on "Honor Killings"

They already do that.

You can buy contraceptives at any planned parenthood. It is not a human right to have free contraceptives. You just don't want to pay for it. Another day another right taken away because someone doesn't think they should have to work or pay for anything.

Florida, BC is not just contraception. There are many medical conditions which are treated with birth control, some serious. I know more women taking oral contraceptives to cope with endometriosis, ovarian cysts, and dysmenorrhea than those who take it for pregnancy prevention. Hell, I know a couple of girls on BC to prevent hemorrhaging during their periods. I'm sorry if you really believe your straw man that this is all about lazy people feeling entitled to consequence-free sex or whatever it is you people believe, but the fact is that oral contraceptives are used for MEDICAL reasons at least as often as for pregnancy prevention. You're basically telling women and girls to live in pain or risk sterility* just because YOU and the CHURCH know better than those "doctor" people.

You're a mom. If your kids were missing days of school every month because of pain no amount of motrin could reduce, wouldn't you want them treated for that? That's why I started BC in high school, and you can pinpoint the date by looking at the difference in my report cards.

* Her name is Morgan, and she's twenty years old. That's too darn young to worry about never conceiving because of out-of-control uterus lining, in my opinion.