Well, I guess we have the Muslim viewpoint well-represented. Thanks Imam Khan!

Already happening. The biggest buyer of our debt now is .......our own govt. Spending within one's means is a concept that seems to be lost on our and many govt's.

Oh, I get it now Yevrah. Obamy rhymes with mammy. Wow so clever.

SMH!

It's sucks that only one person got us in this mess in just three years. Damn POTUS with all his powers and subversion of congress. Here we taught he was stupid. I guess the jokes on us.

/sarcasm

that seems to be your only defense of the inept lying quasi socialist in the white house.

Oh, so now he's a quasi-socialist? Well congratulations on the downgrade. Looks like psychotherapy is really helping some of these nutbaggers.

The big problem is the fact that currently we can borrow at such cheap rates. The progressives say that is the point that now is the time to borrow the max knowing the rates will one day go up. But the rates stay down NOT because of natural pressure, but because the Feds are intentionally keeping those rates low. That skews the entire marketplace. Pretty soon bonds don't mean what they once meant.

With respect to the union vote, it is unfortunate that voters do not understand the problem. Union contracts can control local municipalities with regards to each individual job. So if a town needs to cut hours for a particular job, they can't. It is the flexibility that is compromised that forces towns and cities to have their hands tied. Don't believe me. Go talk with people that have served on boards and ask them about this lack of flexibility.

Another example is this. If a union worker must take a work related phonecall at home he is paid for that time. So if that phonecall took 10 min. there is a minimum time paid not the actual minutes of the phonecall. It is a plethora of wage enhancer built into the system and thus causing budgets to get bloated. I worked for a city for a few years. I worked for the top people, like budget director, personnel director, etc. Everything is padded.

The liberal US has embraced European systems for years that are union based. So unless we turn the other way, which seems unlikely, we too shall jump off the cliff with Europe.

The truth is we just aren't that smart. We ignore the numbers and instead embrace feelings when structuring our economy.

Chris -- if Yevrah Kahn @ comment #2 is a Muslim then he is a rational Muslim who has accurately described the problem presented by Obama.

For everyone who talks socialism and obama and blah blah blah

do YOU REALLY think we would be in ANY better shape with anyone..... ANYONE else?

I dont care for him as much as the next guy but I know the next guy after him (rep or dem) will point and blame for a few years, get nothing but his own wallet accomplished and be the next person we gripe about.

Unions are not to blame (in full) because without them the threat to any corporate entity would not exist and we would ALL,,,,, ALLLLLLLL be making 2$ an hour, working 70 hours a week and doing 10 times more than any could handle. Corps are not fully to blame because they need to make money and we as Americans are greedy, lazy, stupid, and entitled and use our unions not as a equilibrium but a way to try and get things we dont need or deserve.

I believe no matter what the Banks and politicians as a whole got us into the mess we're in and made a WHOLE LOTTA money doing it. There is no win, there is no lose for us. they depend on us fighting amongst ourselves and letting them do whatever they please. The to big to fail motto killed our spirits and that and, how many wars now, bankrupted our pockets.

This rambled on but in a sense Im tired of seeing people just use "Obama" or "Damn Republicans" as an excuse for our own stupidity. Maybe we need to start electing some independents. Maybe we need to STOP looking at candidates who are already millionaires with corporate and government ties.

Tax reform needs to happen, entitlement programs need to be completely revamped and among all else there NEEDS to be some sort of fix for our foreclosure problem. Yes we offer incentives to banks for refinancing and modding people but how about if they foreclose we also tax the living @!$%# out of it. Hey if i get a 130K$ investment handed to me they can tax me 80%. Maybe we need to tell banks well we're taxing you on that nice house you now have to sell. Maybe this would encourage them to take it more serious.

Tax breaks for the wealthy need bye bye, it doesnt create jobs. Ugh and the entire bible belt mid west should just NOT be allowed to vote. K maybe that one just pushed it too far but screw it.

TEvil - not all unions are bad, only the public sector unions.

When you get to vote to take/steal money from your neighbor that is a problem.

The private sector unions have to deal with a company actually making money to pay its employees, because if they demand too much the company goes under and the employees are SOL. But not in the public section the unions just demand the politicians go back to the tax payers to get more and more and more money. At some point the tax payers are going to push back and say enough is enough, and that is kind of what is happening now. So how do the unions fight it? They get more people working for them then not working for them. Again at some point there isn't enough of there isn't enough of the others to pay (Greece anybody?)

But you are correct this isn't a "D" or "R" problem, because both sides are spending money faster than they can bring it in.

Most of the so called free world is deep in debt to big banking and they produce nothing. Themoney manipulators are robbing America and 0thers. Banks, wall street, hedge funds and the commodities market produce nothing and take mountains. They own our government and have a license to steal. Also, most of their loot is made on a 15% capital gains tax.

Our big banks with trillions in assets have been getting billions in 0% loans to play the market Insane. The pigs have been driving up the price of gas and food on our hurting people by manipulating the commodities market. There is nothing they want do and nothing is done to stop them.

All government guaranteed loans should be made directly for a small interest. This would cut house notes by half or more and leave trillions in the hands of our people instead of thieving banks.

Why should anyone pay a bank 600k or more for a 200k house when the tax payer backs the loan.

Combined, our corrupt to the bone financial system controls our money supply, interest rates, housing, health care, education and the price of essentials. We will never recover and improve our economy until we make major change. Unfortunately, our government is owned by the very pigs that are destroying our country.

We can no longer afford this gigantic welfare for the big rich. We are totally out of balance and too few are taking too much. If we don't force real change we will soon be in depression and chaos.

remember adolf.he was a product of economic chaos

It is suggested that you look up and learn the history of the Euro Currency. You must understand its roll-out and intention.

@Chris,

You seem to have a very limited understanding of the European problems. Germany and France have the strongest economies in Europe, and Greece, Portugal, and Ireland have benefitted handsomely from this. Now as it's time to pay the piper, they find their accounts empty from years of excess. There was no "looting" by France and Germany, but now they are expected to keep the union together.

I believe GS was instrumental in shoring up balance sheets for admittance to the EU.

On reflection, I think the “Iron Curtain” arrangement worked well for Europe and the World in general. Everyone was on their best behavior and both East and West were prospering (albeit to various degrees). Economies were moving forward, borders were secured and people’s wellbeing “reasonably” positioned. In 1989-90, everyone rejoiced at the news that the “curtain” was being pulled down.

Twenty years later the picture in Europe is very different. No one’s rejoicing, despite the fact that they have each other; the East has the West and the West the East (the Middle East to be precise). Their economies are on the brink of collapse, countries are struggling with the influx of illegals, youth is running feral and people are more divided than ever before, blaming each other for their predicament.Yesterday we were told that the European economies will continue to struggle for the next decade and possibly longer.

Our economy and fiscal position is in dire trouble as well. What’s worse, we are divided and fighting each other like never before. If we continue on this path, divided we will fall.

Sorry to say it but thanks to us, the future of our children is shaping up to be very bleak and painful.

There's a reason UK stayed away from the euro...just saying.

Chris, I've read many of your posts. I really don't understand why you defend an ineffective government and its leader. We are facing massive problems in this country on a daily basis, anyone who picks up a newspaper or turns on the TV knows this. Regardless who got us there, it's clear those in power TODAY are not working effectively to get us out.

BH3525

Germany and France have the strongest economies in Europe

=========================

Yes they are but both are flatlined. No growth. They can't keep supporting the other nations in the EU.

On another subject: it amazes me the total ignorance of way too many people on here (and other sites also) concerning President Obama. Folks, whether you like Obama or not, like george bush jr or not, etc. the total lack of understanding as to why we are in the mess we're in is hilarious. Obama didn't get us into it, bush jr. didn't get us into it. Our problems have been growing since the end of WW2 and ALL our pols from BOTH parties have had a hand in it. But even more important is this simple fact: the American people, yes, you and I, have been the biggest contributors of all. We continue to elect the same pols and we as a nation have outspent them. So before you utter your nonsense about one party or the other, take a long look in the mirror. We, you and me, are the problem.

wtw of KC,

That is NOT the reason that the Europeans are screwed. And the "Iron Curtain" was NOT a good thing, especially if you were at Eastern Europe.

What happened was that in 1986 the European Leadership was briefed by a Think Tank (comprised of many experts in their fields from many of the Nations.). This briefing pertained to the Reunification of Eastern and Western Europe, as it was known in 1986, based on covert psychological surveys of the populations of Eastern European Nations. Those performing the psychological surveys would enter thru East Germany, change clothes and identities, and then travel all the way south to be picked up at Turkey, this was included in the factors of the Reunification Plan.

Also included in the Plan were. Civilian uses for the former Warsaw Pact Military Equipment, as Civilians Businesses formed for Trucking, Tanks turned into farm tractors, construction equipment, etc. (our phrase was "swords into plowshares"). Western Businesses opening plants and factories in Eastern Europe before the borders opened to stabilize the Eastern Economies and Populations, these businesses then followed by fast food, retail chains, etc.. After near Eastern European Nation and Western European Nation parity then the borders open. (Credit where credit is due it was a West German survivor of WWII, that came up with the transistion of the Military Equipment, as to what he did post WWII Germany, formed a Transportation Company from former WWII German Military Vehicles, then a Construction Company to help rebuild post WWII Germany).

Of course it was obvious that the Western European Leaders did not listen to us (even if we risked our lives to get information). So when the borders opened the Eastern European populations flooded into Western Europe, with many demanding Jobs. The Eastern Europeans then displaced the Guest Workers from Turkey and Greece, those that refused to be displaced were beaten or firebombed like at Germany. The Eastern European Military Equipment was destroyed and sold as scrape metal, including many of the Trucks that could have been repainted and used for Transportation Companies (Transportation of products from the Farms to the Cities was an observed problem, many times due to a lack of transportation farms would let entire fields rot at Eastern Europe). The Former Warsaw Pact Tanks, Mechanized Infantry Vehicles, etc. were also destroyed (cut to pieces) and sold as scrap metal; a whole Eastern European industry could have been developed to turn these swords to plowshares. The average Eastern European was suppressed into living like in the 1950s, so when the flooded across the borders into the West they were in culture shock, even the taken for granted things like the store shelves being full, florescent lights, fast food restaurants, no curfew, stores opened at night, cars having windshield wipers, black people (seen in pictures or movies but not in real life, most were US Military Service Members), Clothes! (bright colors, fine weave fabrics, logo clothing, etc. as to why we had to change our clothes when we did our psychological surveys before the borders opened), Chinese Restaurants and other ethnic Restaurants, cars (mercedes benz, bmws, fords, etc. and not their cardboard cars with post WWII Fiat designed engines with manual transmissions), electricity and water 24/7, etc..

So basically, because there was no parity between Eastern and Western Europe before the borders opened, the Eastern Nation's dragged down the Western European Economies as we anticipated. Because our phased plan was not even listened to the Eastern European Nations were left to their own devices, with no incentives for Western Businesses to even build Factories or Plants in the Eastern European Nations. Also included in the Plan as a significant factor was those of the 101 Divisions of the USSR and Warsaw Pact Nations at the Western European Borders becoming unemployed (no transition programs from Military to Civilian, as one day living on a compound with food, water, electicity and some form of pay, the next day unemployed and access to weapons and ammunition); it was our belief that a large organization would be formed by a former General as some sort of Organized Crime, no established means to hire these large numbers of former Military, later we were correct as this became the makings of the Russian Mob and the Eastern European Mobs; our plan was for them (organizational and leadership skills) was to be the backbone of the building of their Nations up to Western European Nations, as well as the conversions of their Military Equipment to plowshares, forming and managing the Transportation Companies (as a reward and a motivation), etc..

As one of the US Military Briefing Officers in my area of expertise, there were other Briefers both Civilian and Foreign Military in their areas of expertise, we gave the briefings (one whole week) to all the European Leaders at MOD Bonn, West Germany, 1986, then again 1987.

This is why the chaos occurred after the "Iron Curtain" came down. The Western European Leadership were Reactive instead of being Proactive, basically, they were continually attempting to put out forest fires by pissing on them.

Between being at Europe and the Middle East (etc.) I have lived at Europe for over 20 years (not counting deployments to the Middle East, Africa, Asia, etc.). Previously, before reentering the US Military after College as an Officer, I attended Gymnasium at Europe. Also lived at England during the deployments of the USAF GLCMs to England from Germany (Ramstein AFB). I was really disappointed at what happened at Europe, as I earned and was offered German, French, Italian, British, Norwegian, Belgium Citizenships (and some other Nations Citizenships).

david-475776

Very interesting …..There is a mountain of information in your comment and have read it several times to ensure I’ve not missed anything.

I am not sure which East European country you are referring to with the part relating to “The average Eastern European was suppressed into living like in the 1950s” but, I can assure you that people living in Central Europe at the time lived under much better conditions than you have described.

I have some distant relatives living there now and I communicate with them on a regular basis (in English) so my information is coming from the heart of the action.

Right now they are struggling and feeling very disappointed with the way things have turned out under a “united” free Europe. Only the other day they complained about the hardships they are experiencing now e.g. unemployment is high, the cost of living doubled under the Euro, food shortages are frequent, the government is incompetent etc. According to them, socialism despite all its problems was a “Garden of Eden” compared with today. You must agree, that says it all!!!!

My fear is that we, as a nation, appear to be travelling the same route as Europe and if not careful we will end up on the scrap heap as well. People must realize that once we lose what we’ve got, there will be no way of coming back!

Marcus - Obama and his supporters believe the answer is to tax the rich allowing the bottom to benefit. So social engineering will give money to the bottom and thus spending power, while limiting the rich to invest their money as they see fit.

I know it is vogue today to hate the banks, but what about these stats?

These come from the SBA. Top bank lenders to small business 2009-2011

Wells Fargo, LiveOak, Bancshares, JPMorgan, US Bank, CompassBancshares.

Wells Fargo lent out 15 b in 2010

JP Morgan lent out 12 B in 2011, 10b in 2010 They also hired 250 bankers to deal with those small business loans

Citi lent out 4.5 B in 2009 and then 6 B in 2010.

It is so darn frustrating that so much important data is obscured by the media pushing an agenda. The dumb public is being used. The media and political pundits on both sides never take the time to ferret out the facts.

Everyone can look at the countries and say ahh the fail because of this or ahh they failed because of that. Countries fail because they are killed from with in. We have a broken government and huge wealth gap. Its is impossible to say one person caused this. This is caused by greed and people who are all about me me me me me. If you see a man down let me guess its his fault for not being as godlike as you? If you see a man down let me guess you kick him in the junk and spit on him. If you see a man down and you give him food and shelter ...You are a socialist and you ruined this country? If only this was a fair world.

theboys,

You might want to read Ayn Rand's 1957 Book, "Atlas Shrugged".

With my comment to Occupy Wall Street, abtexas et al, being "Who is John Galt".

abtexas-,

As far as your fair world, you need to read and heed the warnings of Kurt Vonnegut's 1961 Book, "Harrison Bergeron". "Equality Laws", "Great Recession", "Equality Demonstrations" (what Occupy Wall Street is doing), etc.

Never saw you at UN Mission Somalia I or UN Mission Somalia II. Your words are one thing, actions are another.

What seems to elude you is the obvious, at many of these Nations that I have lived at with the locals for a few years each (not just visiting as a tourist for days, weeks, months, living in a airconditioned hotel). Most look at your Standard of Living as you being Greedy and Rich; so how about you giving that up to just a little above their Standard of Living so that they are not as jealous.

It is Human Nature to Keep up with the Jones, Wars (Resources, Land, etc.), and want what someone else has; even here at the Pamir Mountains of Afghanistan.

As unfortunate as it may be in the case of economics, we HAVE to care about the rest of the world.

Believe it or not, our world has shrunk!!!

National economies are more tied together, and at a faster pace, with computers and satellite communications.

Whether you like it or not, an econmic catastrophe in Europe is going to affect the United States.

This is common sense and it is the view of many.

The chickens are coming home to roost in our own back yards, after the mess in 2008 that idiots in the United States created with derivatives, credit default swaps and all of those other "creative", "magical" money makers for no one else but the minority in the financial industry.

RFBS - And with nothing to fall back on, like MANUFACTURING, how does the United States come out on top over the next 2 decades?

The TRUTH is they won't. Where have the jobs gone that always precipitate growth?????..... China.

What is the current administration doing to stop business from going overseas? What is the 'friend' of the union worker doing to add to union payrolls (besides recruiting the few dying businesses remaining in the USA)?

How does the United States' economy recover from this one?

Concernedone,

Good question.

Let's try to go through it in some logical way, considering the realities - at least, as I see them.

United States industry reduced and/or eliminated manufacturing.

Why?

1. Manufacturing costs (plant, materials, and labor) became more and more prohibitive - at least, from that capitalist's view - they weren't making the profits as these costs were eating more and more into revenues.

2. As a result of #1, above, outsourcing to other countries, where labor costs, via the standard of living, were cheaper. So were the costs of raw materials, especially when they came from those countries in which they outsourced to, and the costs of real estate for plant and power for operation went down, as well.

In addition, various taxes were either reduced or eliminated, altogether.

This is just too damned attractive for any capitalist who wants to make hand-over-fist in profits.

3. Manufacturing jobs became less and less attractive to Americans because

- more people were becoming more educated and more skilled in professions that paid more, and were easier to perform.

- manufacturing jobs became less safe and less healthy due to union busting.

- American workers began to look down on manufacturing jobs as less acceptable, socially. They wanted white-collar jobs with better hours, and came with more prestige and better privilege.

That is also why undocumented aliens - at the consent of those same capitalists - do construction work, sit at sewing machines in sweat-shops and clean toilets, here, in the United States.

And, this is why we have been complacent about these changes. We, as private citizens in the United States are supposed to enjoy better working conditions, higher paying jobs and cheaper goods and services as a result of all of this, aren't we?

Guess again!!! The benefits are all only going to the minority, our capitalist overseers, and nobody else.

Not all of the "less-desirable" jobs are going to China. They are going EVERYWHERE where it costs cheaper for these American capitalists to produce for their own profits.

You ask how the US economy is going to recover, or even come out on top?

The world has changed, and we may have to accept it, whether we like it or not, and if we disagree with it, or not.

Have you ever wondered why the standards of living are so different in other countries - why a worker in Guatemala only earns 12 cents a week in US dollars - while it is so much higher elsewhere?

Maybe, when this is all leveled out, and everyone in the world is equal in opportunity and health and safety and security and privilege - without exploitation - will we start to see some kind of beneficial results.

I will try to respond one point at a time...

1. Shareholders and investors demand a return on assets managed, thus a dividend. In order to make a return for your 401 and other investments, a company has to do what it takes to make money, even if it means relocating!

2. I agree with this - especially the point about taxes. That is the true bottom line, and the point we can't get past. To bring the jobs back, we have to address the part that makes it so lucrative to do business off shore vs. in Alabama!

3. Several things... Today we have OSHA. My company can be fined or shut down for unsafe business practices. We don't need a union to force safe business practices. We all want to go home in one piece at the end of the day. I completely disagree with your assertion of jobs becoming less safe due to fewer unions. The area I live in is only about 10% OTW (other than white). The low end crappy jobs lost here were manned nearly 100% by whites, not black or Hispanic. So I also disagree with your statements about blacks moving up the socio-economic scale and refusing to do the slave labor. And I also disagree with your comment about illegals working in American sweatshops. Can you provide links to support any work like this is still going on in the USA (sweatshops as defined by history)?

I have spent quite a bit of time in South America. Not for work or vacation, but on missions work building hospitals and schools. People in third world countries will work for $1 per day because that is what it takes in their economy to put food on the table. People there work to live. America has lost that focus. They believe work is a right and not a priveledge. South Americans will shovel cow crap to make an honest wage for a hard days work. They don't unionize and fight, they work hard and get paid - a simple process the United States FORMERLY had on the forefront!

And those South Americans are being hurt by us going down there to improve their way of life. All we take them is corruption and greed, crime and violence. Their way of life is simple and honest. We are screwing up the whole world by showing them how wrong they are and how "right" we are. Makes me sick, and angry!

If workers tolerate poor working conditions here in the US, it is either because they feel they can't do better elsewhere, or they are getting paid well for the conditions they are tolerating.

There is some happy medium when regulations keep conditions as safe and clean as possible and that those regulations are enforced. I think all too often the regulations are not enforced and then those that love more regulations want more piled on now realizing regulations cost jobs.

Here is an example I am familiar with. Prior to recently, a commercial kitchen did not require a hood system over the dish washing area. A hood system is extremely expensive and then must be certified twice a year which costs hundreds up to thousands of dollars depending on the size. Now a hood system is required for that same area which ups the start-up costs, and yearly expenses. What for? I have been a dishwasher for years in a commercial kitchen. I never was in any sort of health risk. I never got burned, nor felt threatened, but the government insists I might get burned from the steam.

We are doomed. Government regulations take about 1.7 trillion out of the business world each year instead of using that money to create jobs and commerce. The size of the regulatory agencies here in the US is larger than Boeing, McDonalds, Ford, Disney combined. it also has grown 16 percent in the past 3 years while the economy has grown only 5 percent.

Concernedone,

I like your response.

1. Yes, that is a good point. Shareholders and investors expect a return on the money that they commit to the business.

Ideally, the business is supposed to make certain that this happens.

However, other stupid decisions and reckless actions on the part of members of these organizations (not all of them) redirect these priorities to other things. One of these things is the pockets of the CEOs and others in power. Another is to stanch the "bleeding" somewhere else because of a stupid decision.

Even when this relocation realizes great advantage for an organization or the entire industry, the private citizen doesn't seem to see or feel any of this. Their employees don't necessarily see raises, or salaries are downgraded through vacancies. The goods and/or services remain at the same price or fee. Where is the benefit?

2. Yes, taxes take a big bite: Income, real estate, business related, sales, etc., etc.

But who legislates these taxes?

Perhaps it is the same legislators who made their own bad decisions in government and are trying to cover for these losses.

It seems that governments just pass along this blame to everyone else via tax, but when it hits the private consumer, that is where it makes no sense. These are the ones who are ESPECIALLY suffering due to downsizing and layoffs. Their income goes down while their taxes go up.

3. I am a member of a union.

Unions are necessary to protect the worker. It creates a necessary BALANCE OF POWER between the worker and management, especially in an environment where the capitalist finds every loophole in which to exploit for their own advantage.

TOO MUCH POWER FOR EITHER IS WRONG. There are examples of exploitation and greed on both sides. The true balance of union with management makes a good relationship that is productive for all.

Yes, this doesn't necessarily exist in Greece where the government was hamstrung by strong unions that demanded more than could be afforded, especially during a time when the population is aging and more are retiring.

We have dealt with OSHA, as well. However, it seems that OSHA either doesn't follow-up completely or, for some reason, cannot help labor to the extent that it should have. I won't speculate on this.

But, it is not, necessarily fewer unions that is the problem. It seems to be more that the negotiating power is eroding due to legislation. Who supports this legislation? A lot of times, it is the lobbyists for big business.

Ohio is a case-in-point, that gives me hope.

Your quote,

"So I also disagree with your statements about blacks moving up the socio-economic scale and refusing to do the slave labor."

I neither said this, nor implied it in my post.

Your point about South America is interesting. Perhaps what could be interesting is that this OUTSOURCING is, by default, creating better conditions for those who are impoverished in other countries. Maybe it is garnering some good-will for Americans. God knows, we need it.

Food for thought?

Thanks for your response.

concernedone - And those South Americans are being hurt by us going down there to improve their way of life. All we take them is corruption and greed, crime and violence.

You should come here to Afganistan, you would see President Obama's Political Appointees spending Billions and nothing being built or done. (Billions still not accounted for after President Karzai demanding they (US Department of State) account for every penny). Almost funny (NOT) President Obama's previous Political Appointees screaming to the International News Media, "Karzai Corrupt" to deflect attention from themselves during General McChrystal's Investigation of them as requested by President Karzai; and the US Public believed that sh!t ("Karzai Corrupt").

concernedone - Their way of life is simple and honest. We are screwing up the whole world by showing them how wrong they are and how "right" we are. Makes me sick, and angry!

Same here at Afghanistan (Pamir Mountains). Plus the fact that the Afghans are more "Green Tech" than the US, those "Mud Huts" (Adobe clay bricks) have Walls over a foot thick, cool during the harsh summers, minimal heating during the near Arctic Winters. They also use a lot of Biodiesel (Recycled Filtered used Afghan Cooking Oil), as gasoline is almost impossible to get. We introduced automotive solar panels (battery rechargers), automotive LED lights, hooked into automotive batteries for their lighting and some electronics (they were using noisy biodiesel generators that attracted the Taliban, Al Quada, etc. for miles).

You might like it here with us, US Military Asymmetric Mountain Warfare Forces, as part of our Humanitarian Aid Mission, we buy local materials and the Afghans build the Schools and Medical Clinics, of course we stand shoulder to shoulder with them and help build too. Between missions we teach them at the schools, and provide weekly medical assistance visits to the villagers. We usually buy our food from them and eat with them, and alternate living with them in the villages (in the school and medical clinic) and some of us living in the surrounding mountains to provide security; the exception to this is my Command Team plus a Support Team as we move every week to colocate with the Teams at different Villages (lots of walking, hiking and mountain climbing, even during the near Arctic Winters). Understanding US Military Asymmetric Mountain Warfare we do not push our values on them (counter productive to gaining their trust).

Sad to hear what is happening at South America, having been to South and Central Americas before.

RFBS,

I would discuss US Unions; but, that would just piss you off. Plus we are moving to another location.

I would ask you to research: What happened to the Henry Ford Era US Labor Unions during the Great Depression. The take overs by "Italian Organized Crime". President FDR's justifications for the Suspension of US Labor Unions during the Great Depression. Who (what organization) the current US Labor Unions are based on. The US War Department Study that established all those things that the current US Labor Unions claimed to have accomplished; but, could not since their Activities were suspended by President FDR and since President FDR Nationalized all US Businesses and US Industry could implement these recommendations of the US War Department Study Nationwide (you can get this US War Department Study to Decrease Catestrophic Accidents at Ammunition Plants/Factories thru the FOIA (it is a book the size of a unabridged College Reference Dictionary), these measures* were adopted Nationwide, not just at the US Ammunition Plants/Factories. If you do not want to buy one, you can see this at the nearest large US Military Depots, Nationwide Government Owned Government Operated (GOGO) or Nationwide Government Owned Contractor Operated (GOCO) Plants and Factories.

*Work week, Safety (including length of women's hair, aprons, eye protection, hearing protection, safety items on boards, eye flush stations, fire extingushers (even whole fire stations), etc.), amount of hours worked, amount of sleep, Saturdays for Jewish Religious Worship, Sundays for Christian Religious Worship, Pay for Skills, etc..

Obama had more money made available to carry out his plans than any administration in our country's history. Yes more money obviously does not lead to success. It takes a TRUE LEADER to lead a country like the United States. Obama hides behind political concerns and we all know you can not lead from the safety of the rear. He hasn't stepped up to the plate. I know it and you know it. It's not in his character to be that kind of leader. He prefers to remain politically safe. We must erase the mistake we made in 2008 and consider it a lesson learned. We need a TRUE LEADER to come forward. Obama has not gotten the job done.

Everyone seems to jump to blame Obama for everything.

Yes, he inherited a mess that was made by idiots.

And even those same idiots think that JOBS are supposed to recover, first, before businesses can recover from these idiotic losses.

Another basic horse sense:

JOBS are the LAST thing that recovers in an economic downturn.

Businesses will not hire, again, until they are certain of enough of a recovery that will enable them to start expanding.

This is common sense.

If a company downsized, where are the vacant positions to be filled?

It has to go in the opposite direction in order to create jobs again.

But the idots continue to blame Obama for everything.

Nice post RFBS.

The situation we found ourselves in Winter of 2009 was a "Pure Economic Meltdown" caused by the greediest of the Republican Party.

The jobs we've lost will not return to the USA. They will stay in China, Indonesia, Philippines, India, etc where they were originally outsourced.

The idiots will always blame President Obama, as this is what they've been programmed to do by their Master Republican Handlers.

We all know that you can mold the mindless however way you wish.

Michael2424,

We shouldn't forget the greedy capitalists, of whatever political persuasion, either.

Yes, look at the mess that the previous administration got us into.

And, our culture has actually allowed the jobs to go out, and cheap, undocumented labor to come in.

What can we expect, when the sheeple allow all of this to happen for the benefit of none other than our capitalist overseers?

obamas answer to all this is to borrow more money to give to the people that dont work.... you can call it anything you want, but he is nothing but a dirty communist thug.... period. When we start obamacare, that will be the final nail in the coffin that will finish us off.... better start learning Chinese because they own us

Yes, kinda obvious ain't it? Volunteers take two steps forward to pay the piper. Oops, nobody in Greece. They're too busy figuring out newer & better ways to not pay their taxes. Italians won't take all this too lightly, either. What part of don't borrow more than you can pay back don't these entitlement countries understand!?

Next up here is QE3, meaning more devaluation and possibly increase in prices on stock market. Also means more phony money for banks to not lend (at low interest) but to get more gov't bonds. Geithner said he won't devalue the dollar, which of course means he will. This on top of the thousands of more agency regulations (and another new batch of 10,000 fed employees whom we can pay) to further stifle business. All accompanied by all the business regulations packed into Obamacare. By the way, folks, you do understand the progressive moves of having gov't control private business, right?

We'll be like lemmings and follow the failing European countries right over the edge of the cliff. Stop with all the brand new "freebies" already. We're broke.

One of my favorite stories, too. Ten years? I wouldn't be shocked if we go down next year while our Prez is standing there fiddling around doing everything he can to prevent private business from recovering.

Sure! ALL you have to do is agree to work for the same amount as an Asian peasant, about $10 a day. Okay? OR you could just behead the greed is good boss in revenge and turn to true Socialism instead

or we could elect represenatives that will implement tariffs that protect our standard of living and labor.oddly there arent any candidates on most ballots that support the middle class.i wonder why that is

or we could elect represenatives that will implement tariffs that protect our standard of living and labor.oddly there arent any candidates on most ballots that support the middle class.i wonder why that is

I think the ant and grasshopper analogy above was very accurate. The US has way to many grasshoppers that want the ants to take care of them and elect a government that will help them live the easy life without having to work for it.

If the grasshoppers " elect representatives that will implement tariffs that protect our standard of living and labor" the grasshoppers would have to work harder, pay more for the things that they want, their standard of living would go down.

The grasshoppers want a high standard of living and feel they are entitled to it. Unfortunately the free lunch is coming to an end. The average standard of living in the US is going to go down significantly whether we increase taxes on the rich or not. We could tax all income over a million dollars at 100% and we would still be spending more than we bring in.

The US is going to change for the worse. It would be nice if we could make smart decisions to limit the pain but we won't because the grasshoppers far outnumber the ants and they will just blame others until the economy collapses and we have a revolution. It is unfortunate but probably inevitable.

By the way almost everyone on Social Security and Medicare are grasshopers, get ready for a rough ride.

The grasshoppers should have been burned out quite some time ago, but Noooooooooooo. They're still sittin' on their butts collecting unearned checks and sucking us dry.

No, those on SS and Medicare are NOT grasshoppers. Don't forget those worker bees put all the money into the system. So much taken out of their paychecks that they couldn't put more into their 401(k)s, which are way down in case you haven't noticed. And don't forget they were counting on the value of their payed-off (all by themselves) homes to help finance their retirement. So when they run out of money, look out Medicaid.

Mari, you are so correct. These people forget that we are also the ones that got drafted and had to go to war, also. Under the democrat party, in order to maintain an advantage in their party to maintain control (communism) they have created the ghetto class of welfare thugs that are nothing but baby making machines that have sucked all of us dry for years and years. Now to increase this voting base, instead of enforcing the borders, they are taking up the call for illegals to once agian... give them more votes from hispanics. This bunch of communists has destroyed this country, and obamacare will be the final nail in the coffin for all of us. We cant pay for obamacare unless we get the half of this country that pays no taxes off their asses and force them to work to pay for the crap they love so much. The rich pay enough, its time for the welfare duds, and the 50% that pay nothing, to step up to the plate and pay their fair share, as Joe Biden (the buffoon) would say.

lol

they have Socialism now.

yeah, where you been david, we have socialism now... dont you ever watch your obama on tv talking about the evil rich, and the evil companies that make a profit? Its called take from the rich and keep it, that is obamas motto. You will never see obama try to lift up the poor, and bring him up to a higher level, its the game of taking the rich down and doing nothing for the poor. As long as he keeps them in his socialist entitlement programs, he maintains thier vote. Communism, the one party system that obama is trying so hard to maintain. He now has obamacare which another redistribution of wealth, and his coddling to illegals, his black party base that would vote for obama if he was a mass murderer, and that is what he is trying to achieve, a one party communist system of government. Tell me what else it could be?

F'ed Up: So what is your solution oh omniscient economist that you are?

Let it all come tumbling down.... Lets get on with reality.

exactly

then watch the EU collapse.

a lessen to all that Socialism does't work

David I hate to say it but you may be right there is always another sucker to come along we may need to collectively file for bankruptcy would that not be something ? something to think about

If Canada undercuts N. Dak in a price war, will you get mad and invade them? How about Mexico? They are just itching for it anyway, drugs, illegals et al

The higher rates in Italy are for new debt, that is money they are borrowing now, not old debt.

You need to look at the underlying reason why the interest rates are rising in Italy. Once they correct those underlying problems interest rates will come down.

I know the higher rates are for new debt - I said "making it harder to repay any FUTURE debt." The problem is they are having a problem with old debt as well.

The problem is more immediate and likely can't wait for normal market forces to take care of the problem. Normal market forces here will result in the crash and burn everyone is trying to avoid.

Work out the repayment of current debt at much lower rates. The banks have to accept and structure a break even scenario (or even a small, controllable loss scenario) or they deal with the risk of absolutely massive, uncontrollable losses. Which is preferable?

There are two main things that affect interest rates, inflation and risk. The credit markets are telling Italy that they need to get their $hit together or the cost of borrowing is going to increase. Lets say that Italy restructures their debt. They would then be telling credit markets there is a good chance they will not be paying back their future debt obligations and interests rates will rise even further. The best way for Italy to get out of their current mess is to get their spending under control.

So, what else is new. Better start looking for a cabin near the woods, surrounded by good soil (to grow vegetables) and fruit trees. Chickens & cows might be good for fresh eggs & milk, and definitely a hunting rifle in order to shoot deer for fresh meat. Reckon we can drill for water. Living near a stream or river for fresh seafood would be most helpful. And, we'd better hone those skills for skinning mammals for clothes and using bark for string & weaving bowls & such.

OK, I'm ready for the new world!

Our problems are due to the flaw in our debt based monetary system. All money is created as interest bearing debt. Therefore it cannot be paid back without further borrowing. However, when we run out of borrowers, we cannot borrow anymore. Thus, the weakest borrowers start going bankrupt due to deflating money supply. Debt free monetary system is the way to go, but bankers do not want you to learn the truth:

www.kondratieffwavecycle.com/web-of-debt/

This is why money matters are not thought in schools. This is why your mortgage agreement fails to tell you that some homes are guaranteed to be foreclosed. It is a con game folks. The table is tilted. Rich gets richer, poor gets poorer. Nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. Perhaps a nation of sheep deserve it.

They don't want us to notice or care. They want obedient workers. Nothing more.