Why not just quit smoking and save yourself money and your life?

JKLD, I quit smoking almost 10 years ago and it was the best thing I ever did but, that is a decision a person has to make for themselves and it is not the governments place to legislate a person into a corner to force them to quit. Where are all the "taxed too much""dismantle the government" types when it's an issue like this or the war on drugs?

Good for you that you showed the ultimate common sense and quit. I have absolutely NO sympathy for smokers. Not only do you poison yourself, but you subject others around you with the poison. Smokers deserve exactly what they get. I have lost a father, 3 aunts and 2 uncles to cancer, all due to smoking.

NO sympathy whatsoever.

New York is behind the times. Californians have been rolling their own for years! Oh! You mean tobacco! Sorry......

I'm not a smoker but what I see here is the NYC government being pissed off at the roll your own company and the reservations because they're not getting their cut.

I have no sympathies for fast food junkies either, but a huge tax on the Big Mac would probably be excessive.

I quit years ago but I don't think smokes, booze, (grass ?) should be taxed any higher than the general sales tax. Constant government interference with private behavior is part of what the 99% is about. Most of this revenue just pays to hire more government thugs....no end to it.

The higher taxes on cigarettes were supposed to go to pay for the extra healthcare the smokers will eventually need, however, I think a few hands have been dipping into the till, fueling the need to increase the taxes more than it needed. Now that others are finding a path around that, the NYC gov is pissed because they're missing out somewhere.

I don't think a little cigarette butt equates to the, lets see, the mattresses, old tires, a refrigerator, shoes, clothing, etc that I have seen thrown onto the side of highways and parkways here in NY. People as a whole are litterbugs and don't give a crap where they throw their garbage. I've seen people standing 10 feet from a garbage can in Central Park and throw wrappers and soda bottles on the ground. Stop being so critical of people who smoke. Let's not forget this is supposed to be a "free" country and everyone is coming down on a very small portion of the population who do still smoke. People have become too sensitive to every little thing anymore and find the stupidest things offensive. You can't say anything or write anything and some moron is going to find it offensive. Well I say too bad. There is freedom of speech in this country and I'm finding my freedoms taken away one at a time. I'll smoke until I die, whether it is in 3 months or 30 years. How about minding your own business just like the government should start doing????

A very simple solution: lower the taxes to a reasonable level. Smokes here in Ca. are about $5/pack. The problem with taxing smokes too much is that the gov't gets addicted to the tobacco revenue. If their aim is to reduce smoking, these exorbitant taxes have probably culled all of those who are going to quit already. Lower the tax, decrease the cheating, increase the revenue. This ain't rocket science. Lets see it happen before someone gets murdered over this.

livinginthewoods,

"it is not the governments place to legislate a person into a corner to force them to quit."

I agree 100%. I can't stand health Nazis whose attitude seems to be "You will be healthy even if we have to kill you to make you so!" Besides, people are geniuses at getting around government laws and regulations. Look at what happened in the '30's with Prohibition.

JKLD, Shame on you, I lost my mother (a smoker) to lung cancer in 2008, I helped my dad and sister care for her the last 20 months of her life. It was hell on earth, but only a heartless SOB would write what you did. Many people who picked up the habit did so when the dangers of it were unknown and it was "cool" to smoke. Some people, like myself are able to quit but there are many who simply don't have the ability to beat the habit. I'd wager you were wise enough to never pick up the habit, good for you, but NOBODY deserves to die from cancer. Your post is one of the most offensive and heartlessly evil posts I've ever read.

I don't smoke, but the politicians raising taxes to $15 a pack is one of the dumbest economic decisions. Did they seriously think people wouldn't either quit smoking or find ways around the taxes?

Whats next, arresting people for not filling there car up with gas within city limits too?

No wonder drug dealers are switching to selling cigarettes.

Sighber,

I watched my own father battle quitting, watched him lay in a hospital bed with drainage tubes coming out and puffing on a cancer stick. I had BEGGED him for years to quit, that this would be the outcome. I was ignored. It took the Dr. giving him 2 choices - continue and die or quit and live. I watched my mother flush 3 cartons of cancer sticks down the toilet that he had brought with him to the hospital.

Heartless? No - I too have had to watch aunts and uncles deal with cancer, all the while still puffing away.

Heartless? No. I have NO sympathy for anyone that smokes because I have seen first hand what it does to them and their their families. To volunatry keep smoking is what is heartless. Not me.

I have absolutely NO sympathy for smokers.

I also have no sympathy for motorbike riders, rock climbers, pop drinkers, fast food eaters... tax them to death!

It is no secret that labor unions got a strangle hold on NYC.

Labor unions representing NYC government workers, (Police, FireFighters, Administrators, Clericals, Maintenance, etc, ) want more money or else. The heist means NYC has to height taxes and find new taxes to pay off the labor unions.

The "Sin" tax on cigarettes is a popular target. By ganging up against smokers, NYC politicians hope to raise hefty tax revenue without a popular revolt. They were wrong. The economic law of diminishing return comes into play when additional taxation fails to generate additional tax revenue as smokers found substitutes or circumvent the tax.

No doubt the NYC will pass new laws making "rolling your own" cigarettes illegal. Essentially, NYC government will have created a new class of criminals simply because it expediently wants to collect more tax revenue. The extortion message: pay us or go to jail. When labor unions hijack government, this is the result.

Why doesn't NYC pass a tax on fried foods and burgers? Imagine the outrage if a Happy Meal at McDonalds cost $49.99 .

JKLD ... I can guarantee that there is something that you are doing, ingesting, or something in your environment that will cause cancer. If that happens to you, it's your own damn fault and I will have no sympathy.

JKLD,

Your final point is well made and I agree with it but I also know first hand how truly addictive the habit is. Your father, like my mother, was unable to give it up. You say it is a choice. I don't know that I can agree with that. I was able to give it up after smoking for more than twenty years but I know how hard it was to do. I was a chain smoker and because I've lost many relatives to smoking related cancer I understand that my future very likely holds a nasty end for me. I did choose to smoke, started when I was ten, quit when I was thirty-five, I'm almost fifty-seven now, smoking is a choice when you begin but it quickly goes from being voluntary to being compulsory. Smokers are enslaved by their habit and the fact that my mother or your father couldn't give it up should not diminish our view of how much they cared for their family or how much they loved their lives. I struggled with feelings of bitterness over mom's death as it related to her smoking but ultimately, when I wiped that final tear from her eye, I knew she wanted to stay here more than anything else, if she could have quit, she would have, and I'd wager, your father would have too.

prohibition leads to a booming black market and succumbs to the resourcefulness of Americans trying to afford what they please. Time to RETHINK prohibition and/or prohibitively high taxes.

People who smoke are not seeking sympathy they are just trying to feel good. Me thinks they just want to be left alone.

No matter how bad ones life and circumstances are it will always look or feel better whilst smoking tobacco. That is the nature of nicotine.

Prohibition does not work and should be repugnant in a culture that values liberty.

Dang Fat Cat, somehow this is union labors fault? Good thing for you there's no tax on stupid, otherwise you'd be broke.

This article clearly demonstrates that these onerous taxes are less about people’s well being and more about the revenue.

If the OWS idiots weren’t so clueless, they would be protesting government greed and waste instead of any banks. Perhaps they should charter buses and transport the protesters from the various cities to converge on the white house lawn and the capitol building.

Sighber,

Actually Dad DID quit after the doctor laid down the law. However, he had to undergo 2 subsequent cancer operations, resulting in the complete removal of one of his lungs. He was an SOB for about 6 months, sucking on Certs, Lifesavers and any other hard candy he could find. Mom had kept small dishes of ammonia scattered around the house to soak up the stench of the smoke and FINALLY those could go away. However, his years of smoking had done a number on her as well as me, health-wise. Fortuantely he lived another 15 + years, smoke free. Unfortunately, it also did a number on his heart and on his bones. What smokers don't realize is that one of the side effects is thinning of the bones.

I do NOT allow it in my house, I don't allow it in my cars. I won't have a smoker in my car because of the residual stench that gets all in the car. Oh, and btw, anyone that bathes in perfume/aftershave is just as stupid.

JKLD Comment collapsed by the community

Good for you that you showed the ultimate common sense and quit. I have absolutely NO sympathy for smokers. Not only do you poison yourself, but you subject others around you with the poison. Smokers deserve exactly what they get. I have lost a father, 3 aunts and 2 uncles to cancer, all due to smoking.

NO sympathy whatsoever.

Let me get this straight. You have no sympathy for your relatives who died? They deserve to die ?? Is that how you feel about your dad ? I hope you never have children if they decide to smoke.

Reading post like this... it's easier to see how our world is so cruel and hateful.

"Joe Green, spokesman for the New York office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms says untaxed cigarettes are not a victimless crime. He said tax revenue pays for education and other services and that stores selling contraband cigarettes put law-abiding stores out of business."

Quiting smoking cuts funding for education and other services as well as puts law-abiding stores out of business. Apparently, quiting smoking is not a victimless crime.

Mayor Bloomberg is traitor plain and simple.

This guy is anti American as it gets he punishes Americans who want to smoke.

Land of the Free home of the brave hmmm not so much in NYC.

If you want to smoke go ahead it YOUR LIFE do what you want.

15 bucks a pack what a jerk and you New York Voters let this douche bag inside to run the show.

Most adults would quit if they could, but nicotine is very addictive. If govts really want to stop smoking, they need to target the young who start smoking because they think they're sticking it to their parents or just fitting in. We should be hammering these kids with the truth of their imminent addiction. A lifetime of slavery to tobacco companies with an untimely death from lung cancer or emphysema as their reward. If kids knew they were really just lining the pockets of "the man," it wouldn't seem so cool.

Every time I see someone lighting up, I thank god (figuratively speaking) that I never started.

Zoroaster, you logic and common aren't needed on this board. (sarcasm)

Of course if you quit and don't pay taxes it OK, but if you leave NYC to buy them and come back somehow education is hurt. ummmm, ok Joe Green.

JkLD it is ok to have a strong opinion especially with the impact smoking can have on others not directly smoking. Clearly understandable. In this time of teaching tolerance in schools for others unlike ourselves it is clear you are intolerant at least on this issue. Your rigidity is astounding makes some sense considering how close to home the issue of smoking is. People are more important than things and if someone who smokes needs a ride I can tolerate their presence. We grew up in a smoking culture gagging on secondhand smoke produced by masses of smokers who did not have the entire skinny on the health issues. Often kids started up smoking with the elders understanding and have come to accept this habit needs to go. This is over 40 ish years though and it is a process to remove cultural icons from a society. Your dad was lucky he could and wanted to quit. I have cared for people that after having surgery having a lung removed the first thing after awaking from anesthesia they wanted to go smoke through the stoma in their neck. No one really deserves that slavery. They may earn their ill health benefits but being so trapped by any monkey on ones back is not a picnic and with understanding is compassion worthy, like people.

Zoroaster, you ought to send your comment to the NYT and see if they print that. Great point. BTW I smoke and wish I could quit but I'd probably wind up killing someone doing it. I'm all for keeping these dangerous things out of kids hands but until the government makes it illegal people will smoke. Will they make it illegal? No way cause there is money to be lost!

"It's astonishing how much revenue is being lost to the black market," said Scott Drenkard, an analyst with the Tax Foundation, a non-partisan think tank.

Hmmm..... and they didn't see this coming when they taxed the heck out of people?

"Joe Green, spokesman for the New York office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms says untaxed cigarettes are not a victimless crime. He said tax revenue pays for education and other services and that stores selling contraband cigarettes put law-abiding stores out of business."

Quiting smoking cuts funding for education and other services as well as puts law-abiding stores out of business. Apparently, quiting smoking is not a victimless crime.

Now this is a very telling point. Brilliantly said.

Here we have a tax that was presented to us as something where ALL of the money was to go to the health care of smokers/former smokers. Interestingly enough none of it went there. It went everywhere but.

This is a greedy tax placed on one section of the population for a habit others don't like.

I honestly wonder when the drug cartels will take over the underground tobacco market.

JKLD,

RE: your post #1.3

How nice of you to feel "NO SYMPATHY WHATSOEVER" in regards to the death of your father, uncles and aunts. You sound like a guy without ANY faults of his own whatsoever. I hope your children, if any, will treat you with the same respect you show, IN PUBLIC, for your own father and other family members. May God help and forgive you!

JLKD,

You sound like the perfect As*&#@ to me.

Last year the state I live in doubled the tax on cigarettes, increasing the price by about 25%. The member of the state legislature who sponsored the bill had a great website that talked about the dangers to children and the health care costs. But less than 10% of the increase went to smoking prevention and health related costs.

As a former smoker, I agree that encouraging people to quit is right. But if government is going to use health care costs as a reason to increse taxes, the tax revenue should go toward those costs. Does NYC provide free health care for smoking related conditions?

Dave, I grew up in NYC and they don't provide free anything. If you're not paying directly then you're paying indirectly i.e. taxes, bridge/tunnel fees, mass transit fees, looking crossed eyed fee, scratch your head fee, waking too slow fee....you get the idea.

rkb5555

Actually, I do have a grown child who watched her grandfather and great aunts and uncles get cancer and the effect thereof.

She had enough sense NOT to start smoking because she witnessed what the effects are and the stupidity of starting in the first place.

dmu2cc-2829260

JLKD,

You sound like the perfect As*&#@ to me.

Good because if you smoke, I should be.

Excellent points by Mike Kelley (#1.11) and zoroaster (#1.26)! The concept of taxing "for ones own good" is disingenuous at best . . . downright fraudulent at worst. The market - for any good or service - will only bear artificial price inflation to a point. Funny that a city so deeply rooted in the tenets of capitalism would employ such an idiotic economic policy.

scrambolo,

My father was very dear to me. I begged him to quit; pleaded with him, bought all the anti-smoking aids. I finally because resigned to the fact that if he refused to quit, he got what he deserved, as do all smokers. It IS an addiction that can be broken IF you want to. Hard? Yep, but it can be done. He did it in 6 months and was an sob the whole time.

Oh, and btw, I'm female and had to deal with watching him destroy his life. It took lung cancer and a doctor's ultimatium to get him to quit.

JKLD

Actually, I do have a grown child who watched her grandfather and great aunts and uncles get cancer and the effect thereof.

She had enough sense NOT to start smoking because she witnessed what the effects are and the stupidity of starting in the first place.

Well my mother just died this year from cancer caused by smoking. If i could have shared her pain i would have. When she died, i lost the brightest light in my life - a devastating blow. I cannot imagine not having feelings for her, ever, no matter what.

JKLD,

The fact that your father smoked himself to death does NOT grant you immunity from defiling him on a public forum or in any manor! If not for your father you wouldn't even have LIFE! Your lack of empathy for others says more about the mistakes of your father in raising you then you could ever possibly say negetive about your father's mistake in smoking!

Come now you cannot always blame the parents for the outcome ,due to that whole pesky personal responsibility type thingy.

JKLD; I totally understand you're frustration with seeing others who smoke. Watching family and friends becoming sick and dying, dealing with rude smokers and such. I have an aunt who's getting ready to enter her third round of chemo for lung cancer. She smoked since her teens. I'm no idiot, I know what the ultimate outcome will most likely be for her. There are those who smoke and know it's bad and know they should stop but it has been proven to be just as hard to quit as it is heroin. I know, the best way to quite is to never start in the first place.

That's easy for an adult to understand but the average person starting at the age of 13 or 14, you know you can't tell them anything. "They're not going to get addicted" "They'll be able to stop anytime" we adults don't know anything. 10 years later when they're still smoking, they finally realize cigarettes have the best of them. The point I'm making is, to throw insults at someone for something they did when they were a teenager, is quite unfair and unhelpful. This can't be undone as easily as other teenage stunts. You know until recently, cigarette companies were targeting teens directly with ads, free gifts, cigarette machines all over the place. Stores selling "lucies" or lose individual cigarettes. Some teens resisted, some got sucked in.
Insulting others won't work. As and ex-smoker, I can assure you, you'll do nothing but tick them off.

If you want to really help others quit, get involved in anti-smoking campaigns to prevent teens from starting in the first place or to encourage others to give it up. You're efforts will be more rewarding.

I've done something similar at work. I got a bulletin board and posted a picture a lung with a tumor the size of a baseball (I have friends at the pathology's office who hooked me up). I hung a baseball from a string next to the picture to compare size and weight. Even the most hardcore smokers stopped in their tracks and stared at it for a good while.

JKLD - First, I am very sorry to hear about the loss of your father and close relatives. I can't imagine how hard that must have been. Thus, I can certainly understand - if not necessarily agree with - the source of your anger and cynicism towards smoking and smokers.

Respectfully, though, I get the sense that your beligerance towards the other commenters on this thread is more about your lingering anger at your now-departed loved ones. In other words, you seem to be taking it out on strangers since the actual targets are now sadly beyond reach. Until you deal with the real source of your anger, you won't be helping anyone, least of all yourself. I sincerely wish you all the best in that process. Peace.

Most of my buddies who still are smoking have switched to E-cigs and they are slowly quitting all of them 8)

Everyone should be happy to pay their “Sin Taxes” for cigarettes, alcohol, and for heavens sake lets get on to taxing people who over eat.

After all when we get to the golden gates and St. Peter gets his list out, anyone who has been paying their “Sin Taxes” is half the way to paying their way in to heaven.

And the taxman can say he was just doing his best to get as many people into heaven he could given the amount of sinners puffing on a cigarette, drinking a beer, and eating a cheeseburger with fries in the good ole USA.

Now if we could just get a “Sin Tax” on the Bankers, Politicians, Warmongers, Murders, and all the other power hungry traitors responsible for trashing everything else, why we could put the Taxman on the list for Sainthood.

Now you can pay the $15.00 a pack for your smokes knowing that the real cost before the “Sin Tax” is about 75c a pack delivered ready for sale, so your getting $14.25 added to your buy in, in heaven every time.

So smile raise your hands in the air at the check out counter run back and forth up and down the isle, yelling hallelujah brother I’m going to heaven.

JKLD,

And you KNOW that the smoking created their Cancer how? Because the Scientist said so, right.

Well, the Scientists also directly linked Cancer to the: a. carbon and graphite from Laser Printers, Copy Machines. (similar cause to Cancer related to Coal Miners), b. Recently sitting too long instead of standing., c. Carbon Monoxide (Car Exhaust), think which direction that goes at NYC, down into the Subways from the roads and streets above. Regardless of how many ventilation fans, it is still there (smaller quantities), d. The Building debris and dust from the 9/11 2001 Attacks (unless you are going to scrub each and every square foot of every building at NYC with soap and hot water, then rinse each down)(what the First Responders of NYC are dying of since they got large doses, everyone else still at NYC are still getting small doses over a longer period of time)., e. The quantities of ammonia that your mother placed around your house, ammonia as a solvent causing the degradation and release of other chemicals and toxins., f. Use of large amounts of bleach for cleaning and as a disinfectant (take your pick, die of a disease or Cancer, bleach water used during fruit and vegetable washing)., g. Asbestos., h. Certain foods (especially the processed foods)., i. Artificial Sweeteners (yes, that includes "Nutrasweet")., j. Alcoholic Beverages., k. Sunlight and UV exposure., l. Preservatives., m. A leaking Microwave Oven, or standing too close., n. Radiation., o. Radio Frequencies (including from High Tension Wires)., p. certain Prescription Drugs., q. Obesity increasing risks., r. certain metals, especially "Heavy" metals., s. certain plastics (especially "packaged foods")., t. certain building materials (especially wood that is chemically treated, some concretes,etc.)., u. certain durable paints., v. Oil., w. Additives added to Gasoline, Aircraft, etc. Fuels. (guess which direction that goes from the aircraft flying over you), x. certain Cosmetics, perfumes, soaps and deodorants., y. chemicals in drinking water (including those used as disinfectants)., z. Pollution from the generation of electricity (especially from Coal, resulting in coal ash (carbon, graphites, toxins, heavy metals) lakes (very large) and ponds (extremely large) at many States., 1. charbroiled foods (carbon) and certain fats., 2. certain vitamins., 3. Cathode ray tubes (old TVs, Computer monitors, etc.) as well as the high content of heavy metal (lead) in pounds (weight), radiation (radiation and heavy metal is cumulative, does not go away and just builds up inside body), phosphors, etc.)., 4. certain additives to glass, glass pigments and paints, even some glass making processes, etc., 5. Household dusts (made up of many of the above plus decaying human skin and decaying insects, pet dander, etc.)., 6. Detergents, Soaps, Dishwashing Fluids, etc. especially those with perfume and cleaning boosters added., 7. Insecticides and Fertilizers., 8. Coffee and Caffeine (including in the "Energy Drinks")., 9. Radon exposure from New Buildings, Houses, Vehicles, Products, etc., 10. etc. (Many more, like certain food coloring bans and fabric dye bans).

Do you see them Taxing the h3ll out of these causes of Cancer at the same ratio as cigarettes. With many of these causing Cancer and Deaths quicker than cigarettes, just not as well known or as visible as someone smoking a cigarette.

The hypocrisy about this is many States have Tobacco or Tobacco Related Stocks (some hidden as "Mutual Funds") in the State's Investment Portfolios. The same was with the States Class Action Product Liability Lawsuit, with the Tobacco Settlement Money NOT used to Medically Treat the Product Users (Smokers); but, used as part of the State's General Fund, including the payraises for the corrupt Politicians. As with any Product Liability Lawsuit, the "Intent" (as Fact), not the "Interpretation" (Opinion), is for the Product Users, not anything else.

Locations at California attempted to ban new Fast Food Restaurants in certain areas to end the Obesity problems (diabetes, heart related problems, high blood pressure, and certain types of Cancer, etc.); the Nation and the World saw just how well that went. Do you see the States Taxing Obese People (almost 1/3rd of the US and rising) as a cause of increased Health Insurance Costs for all US Citizens (that can afford Health Insurance).

The solution is "Moderation" and "Minimizing Exposure". Or you could live a very boring life inside of a sealed environmentally controlled room (still not a guarantee depending on what the air filters are, how often they are maintained (replaced), and the construction materials used on the room). I really do not know what you are going to eat and drink or what you would do about cleaning (including washing your arse) and waste disposal (impact on everyone else)(even toilet paper is chemically treated).

From a Philosophical standpoint, it is NOT human nature to live forever. And not everyone can live to the same Living Standard of even the "poor" at the US. There is the matter of Overpopulation, depletion of Resources, Pollution, etc. unless you are also an advocate of ZPG (Zero Population Growth, that is also a "Life Style" choice). If the "poor" of other Nations like Africa, Asia, Middle East followed the same mentality of Occupy Wall Street, they would be protesting against everyone with a Standard of Living higher than their Standard of Living, meaning they would demand that US and European Standard of Living, even if that means bringing down the US and European Standard of Living to just above what they currently have (I have heard this stated at the many Nations of the Middle East, Islamic Africa, Islamic Asia, while living with the locals for a few years each since the 1980s as a US Military Officer. This mentality has not gone away, as I have heard the same thing here (Afghanistan) while living with the locals for years of consecutive tours.).

It is also Human Nature to want what others have, this can be seen as Wars, Keeping up with the Jones, Greed, a higher Standard of Living, Want versus Need, etc..

Somethings else that is becoming Human Nature is the "No Fault" mentality (no one is Responsible, no personal responsibility), and the "Blame Game" (Blame everyone else, again no personal Responsibility). Decisions with no Consequences (once again no personal Responsibility or the Blame Game (it is everone else's fault)).

One of the other things happening within the US, is programmed Attention Deficit Disorder, and a decrease of Cognitive Skills (Mathematics skills, reflecting a capability to go from academic abstract to real world solutions). This programmed ADD can be seen as the Twits (the derogatory term) of Twitter's one liners, and even here on Newsvine (criticism of posts being too long, and too many researched or experienced facts (withholding facts is as good as a lie.).

Having lived this long, and being a US Military Officer stationed mostly external to the US that is what I have observed, looking into the fish bowl (United States) from the outside, with fish inside the bowl possibly believing that their fish bowl being the entire world and everything else outside is irrelevant on a day to day basis.

I been smoking 15 years. I love smoking and only quit because I refuse to be over taxed. $300 a month on Marlboro's so I rolled my own and knocked the cost to $15 a month. 4 months of rolling my smokes and I decided to try E-Cigarettes.

Now on my third month of vaping which is nicotine and water vapor so 4000+ less chemicals . I can smoke in theaters, during work where ever I want most of the time. Food tastes better, I'm breathing better and feel much healthier.

If anyone is interested in E-Cigarettes don't do any of the "free trials" they cost 4-10 times more, break much quicker and have very little power. Don't buy the juice made in China it might be a $2 cheaper but you never know when they might feel like cutting costs and use radiated water or something. There are plenty of American made juice and parts on websites.

Expect to see lots more of this in the near future. Certain politicians feel that if they can't pass a law forbidding something they don't like, then all they need to do is tax it until it's too expensive to buy.

Selling smokes for $15 a pack is just plain stupid. They see what it caused. I suspect the % drop in smoking the mayor talks about is based on the drop in tax revenue. It doesn't take into account all the other ways people are getting smokes now. I'll bet the actual drop is far lower.

Gneisenau, that's a good point. I wonder how they're gathering their data on the number of smokers in NYC? Is is via the number of legally-purchased packs? Survey?

It's taxation of the poor, portrayed as a public health benefit.

Statistically, smoking is far, far more prevalent among the lower earners in our nation.

I'd agree with Gneisenau. As a person who has struggled with smoking for years, and has occasionally switched to rolling my own when money has been tight, smokers will pay friends across the border for cartons at a lower rate, roll their own, buy from these newsstands, whatever. The city cannot quantify that, so they consider the lack of retail cigarrette sales a reduction in smoking.

Don't want to pay the tax? Quit smoking. Save money and taxes and lives.

obviously they don't wish to pay the tax and have raised the ire of those who planned to make money off of them in a non-liberty celebrating way. Even if you do not like it prohibition does not work and we should celebrate the resourcefulness of New York smokers! Tax , Tax , Tax and boy lookey how effective -n- costly.

@ JKLD - most likely, if everyone stopped smoking in NYC, they would simply transfer the tax to something else. (After all they have grown used to the money stream. They aren't letting that go without a huge fight.) Maybe next time it's going to be something YOU enjoy that costs 3 times as much as everyone else pays.

also stop being obnoxious with people. you said your peace clearly, now let others do so freely without having to deal with your combativeness. People generally do not mind a bit of opposing opinion but there is no need to obnoxiously and redundantly attack. You may get the message out but people's ears will be lost to you. I have seen your same post repeatedly but understood after reading it once. Smoking is a unhealthy and inconsiderate habit. Often smokers can be so self absorbed getting their fix that they can emulate inconsideration with second hand smoke and littering. They are getting their freak on. People do that. Not always in healthy ways but it is their way to choose. Liberty or death. Even if you choose a slow death and shorten your life you are at liberty to do so.

Gneisenau

When your voluntary 'poison' harms others, you deserve to pay more to compensate others.

jkld,

Take that attitude with booze and see how people in this country react. Unless you're a health nut you drink. Guess what? Politicians drink and drink alot but they sure as hell aren't about to tax booze at the same rate as smokes. Why? Because of all the drunk voters out there. THAT is (along with the MSA money those politicians ARE stealing) is what it is all about.

And lets not get into which habit is costing this dumbass society more. Health losses are about the same for both but with booze you get the WHOLE legal side of it that isn't there with smoking other then the "gee I'll sue the tobacco companies because a family member smoked" mentality. And I'm sure there is a tad bit of overcrowding in prison by people who smoke unlike those that kill and maim because they drink. How many battered wives and children does it take for this society to understand what a wonderful tonic booze is?

Healthy society? No way. Stupid society? Ever which way.

I so agree kipp and i'm not even a smoker.

thanks, I do not smoke either after many years of on and off smoking. Stupid, filthy, nasty habit. One more way to enjoy life and poison ourselves brought to us by big business and our human condition.

JKLD - "When your voluntary 'poison' harms others, you deserve to pay more to compensate others."

How does someone smoking effect you? If you are talking about second hand smoking, most studies have said there is very little if any effect.

So I ask again, how does you neighbor smoking effect you?

This is an unjust tax.
Smokers have rights too.

"Smokers pollute the air" Ever try to breath car exhaust? Cars belch it in enormous amounts.

"Your gonna die from smoking" So what? Everyone dies from something and a smoker won't be sucking the system dry for 30 years after retirement.

"Smokers make my insurance more expensive" So does over billing. Shouldn't the cigarette tax be paying for that?

JKLD

When your voluntary 'poison' harms others, you deserve to pay more to compensate others.

And nothing you do has any effect on anyone else around you? Crap every time you exhale you pollute your environment. What are you going to do when they issue a massive tax on people just for being there?

Of are you one of those people that refuse to worry about it until it's a tax you don't like?

Maybe next time it's going to be something YOU enjoy that costs 3 times as much as everyone else pays.

A 35% tax on green fees?

a 35% tax on

Sugar is next and probably salt in a few years.

Gneisenau,

It would not be 3x, it would be about 20x (or more) as taxes that JKLD would be paying. So something on McDonald's $1 menu would now be $20.00 with NYC getting $19.00 of JKLD money as Obesity Taxes plus the NYC Sales Tax.

JKLD, this has nothing to do with Health, this is all about the money that the greedy NYC Politicians can squeeze out of the Public. Like I said before just look at how the NYC Politicians spend the Tobacco Product Liability Settlement Money. Unless they are smokers, these greedy NYC Politicians are doing British "Taxation without Representation" (the War cry of the Colonist "Rebels" prior to and during the War of Independence).

What do you think your corrupt NYC Politicians are using the $1 Billion a year of Tobacco Product Liability Settlement money for Medical Treatment of Product Users (Smokers), Guess Again.

Rhazes - Sugar is next and probably salt in a few years.

Already done, the taxes that almost destroyed the US Sugar Industry, so now most Sugar is imported. Some States already demanded that salt shakers in restaurants be removed. Irony sugar is not as harmful as the corn syrup that the US Government subsidizes and iodized salt is actually necessary (most "healthy" sea salts are not iodized).

@ david - I wonder if he would feel it OK when he goes to the store and sees coffee is a hundred bucks a can or sugar is 30 bucks a bag and salt is 25 bucks a box? Or maybe when the price of Kobe beef now seems cheap?

They just don't get it. All they see is a massive tax on their pet peeve and it never occurs to them that what goes around comes around. They've allowed the government to make a precedent on taxing specific items way out of proportion to everything else. Taxes are like Lay's Potato Chips to politicians. They can never stop at just one. I'll be laughing my ass off when JKLD finds himself taxes into oblivion and wonders how everyone else let it happen.

She JKLD is a woman.

She JKLD is a woman.

Opps. Sorry, I didn't know.

I did not know until after some posting and then I caught it in one of her posts. I was not offended, just trying on some courtesy and sharing the info.

State law can "require" any thing it wants. It is completely irrelevant because state law has no standing with federally-recognized Indian reservations. (See Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution.) This is the justification for many states forbidding reservation Indians to vote in state and local elections (yeah, North Dakota, I mean you.) Indians were only given the right to vote in Federal elections in 1924 (around 50 years after the 15th Amendment.) To this day, most reservation Indians do not vote even in Federal elections because they do not consider themselves entirely enfranchised.

Somewhere around $2 trillion has been stolen from the reservations in mineral and logging rights administered by the Bureau of IndianAffairs. It is estimated that less that 1/2 of one percent of the actual royalties due were ever paid to the Indians by the U.S. government. They have just spent or embezzled the rest. There are few remaining records and the BIA has refused to make even the slightest attempt (other than trying to get all the tribes to agree to a $300 million settlement fund) to right the wrong. Do you think the Indians should care about screwing the white man's goverment to the tune of a few bucks a pack?

Growing up in WNY, we always went to the reservation for cheap booze, cigs and gas. No federal or state taxes on any of those items makes a huge difference in price.

Plus, buying on the reservations help the Native Americans economically, while cutting off some of the supply of money to the greedy governments and the 1%. I'm all for reservations, and the Feds minding their own business!

@!$%#, 8 bucks is too much! I can't even imagine seeing 15 dollars a pack. Glad I don't live in NYC. It's about 5.40 a pack in Charleston, SC. But I am a fan of Bugler Tobacoo.. (roll your own) It's about 2 bucks a pack and you can roll about 40-50 cigs. Also, there is a perk of feeling like a cowboy. ;)

$1,000 bucks a pack seems okay to a non-smoker. $.50 a pack is too much for a smoker. Since most people are non-smokers now ...

You guys just don't get it, do you? If you stop all of us from smoking, you think they won't come after you for your soda, candy or whatever vice you may have?

Are you really that naive?

yes nosfeau, yes they are.

well the ends justify the means and that is really all that some people care about. Myopic but then feelings do not always need a reason.

I'm just glad I gave it up when I did. It's rough, no doubt. I "tried" 3 times and it wouldn't stick. Then one night, Dec. 5 1981, got the urge to pour water on the pack, and havn't picked one up since. The first 3 days was a bitch, no doubt. After the physical cravings stop, the brain wants it. I STILL have a dream where i'm smoking, but "i don't smoke that much anymore", and when I try to quantify (in my dream) I wake up. I quit in 1981. This @!$%# will stick with you worse than any other drug. Point is, it's HARD to quit, but it can be done. It just has to come from deep within.

if you start up again it gets even tougher to quit. You have to want to quit.

Trying to save people from themselves has never worked and never will. To think that smoking is voluntary after becoming hooked is naive and ignorant. It is one of the most addictive substances on the planet and actually becomes part of the body rather than the body becoming dependent on the substance. The cravings are outrageous for some people. JFLK, you are a monster of self absorption and have the compassion of a rattlesnake. Not everyone has your superior degree of self discipline and is able to tolerate the withdrawal symptoms of nicotine. Your father didn't "refuse" to quit, he was unable to quit, and you are one judgmental jerk if that is all you see or feel when you think of your father. There is more to people than their smoking or their dress size or the amount of money they make. Try remembering the good parts of your relationships with those people instead of their addictions--if you had any. I have had lung cancer and I have paid dearly for every cigarette I smoked. I occasionally still fall off the wagon and then get back on and try again. After they removed part of my lung, I became addicted to opiates--no one is judging about that. I quit the opiates by myself and the cigarettes at the same time--my little piece of Hell. If you get breast cancer, smoking never even comes up in the conversation. If you get lung cancer--you deserve every bit of what you get. You have no idea what people go thru when they withdraw from such an addictive substance--and just a FYI...It isn't ALL ABOUT YOU stupid.

The corrupt Politicians at work (sarcasm "work"). As even prior to and during the American Revolution, the British Politicians used the Revenue from the Colonies Tea Tax, Stamp Act Taxes, etc. to enrich themselves.

How many Politicians (all Parties) are Millionaires, after being elected.

No, it's the Republicans that have no hearts Kids.

If it were up to Republicans you would have nothing and Big Business would have everything.

If it were up to the democrats they'd cut you out before you were born.

RealAmericanPatriot,

I warned everyone about this before. The US Taxes, one of the highest in the World of 35% on US Businesses. As the US Economy Tanked, the Local, City, States increased their Taxes, Property Taxes, Business Licenses, etc., so the 35% plus the Local, City, State Taxes, Property Taxes, Business Licenses, etc.. So many US Businesses either left those States or moved overseas. Most Nations have decreased their Business Taxes to 6-9% to attract the US Businesses to their Nations. This leaves these US Businesses with a choice, file Bankruptcy (Closure) or leave the US.

The idea of "Tax Credits", "Tax Incentives", etc. is like telling a starving person that you will give them food at the end of the year (after tax filing), not immediately.

To scare the Rich Foreign and US Business Investors out of the US, the Politicians started saying, "Tax the Rich", "Rich Pay Their Fair Share". This is identical to what the British Labor Union Political Party previously did, with the "Rich" British, including the Beatles, fleeing England to become US Citizens or Irish Citizens. This left the British Icon Businesses to collapse with many British Unemployed and on the Dole. The British Government then Nationalized these British Businesses and due to their mismanagement and lack of experience ended up selling these British Icon Businesses to Foreign Corporations (that sent the jobs out of England). example: British Icon Business Jaguar first sold to GM, then GM sold Jaguar to Tata Motors of India. Resulting in the "Upper Middle Class", "Middle Class", and "Poor" to pay for all the British Government and the British Social Services. As soon as the "Upper Middle Class" got enough money they too left England, resulting in the current unsustainable problems at England (a few paying for the many), and the British Labor Union Political Party finally realizing the Real World situation of England and implementing austerity measures. Just like the US Labor Unions demanding more money during the Great Depression, the British Labor Unions demand more money, while the British Austerity measures are implemented to save England.

In response to the Occupy Wall Street Movement, US Government, US Labor Unions, etc., I really believe that the "Rich" (Movers and Shakers) that keep the US Going, should Strike also, and bring the US to a grinding halt to open the eyes of the OWS, US Government, US Labor Unions, etc.. This would leave OWS, the US Government, US Labor Unions, etc. to wonder WTF happened. And just like warned by Ayn Rand, 1957, book, "Atlas Shrugged", those in the know would say, "Who is John Galt" to the uninformed of US Government, US Labor Unions, OWS, etc..

The really funny thing about the OWS cries for "Wealth Equity", this sounds like the Academic Idealistic Communism (not the derogatory term) proven not to work before in the Real World (including the US "Hippie Communes"). This type of "Equality" was warned about by Kurt Vonnegut, 1961, book "Harrison Bergeron" about "Equality Laws", "The Great Recession", "Equality Demonstrations", etc..

Single Dad,

That is what your Demoncraps have done and are doing. As the US is NOT a Democracy (according to the Founding Fathers, Democracy is "Mob Rule"); but is a Constitutional Representative Republic. A representative Government is counter to a true Democracy. Plato's "The Republic" (Required reading back then for the Educated). The evidence of the US established to be Ruled by the Elitists can be seen today with the Elitists of the Electoral College that were established to determine the President and Vice President of the United States (not just one State) as the Founding Fathers argued, "the average US Citizen is too ignorant to determine the Highest Offices of the Land, President and Vice President". With the US known as "Corporate America", with President Obama's buddy, "Mr.Corporate America" having more Political and Financial Power than almost everyone in the US, making the Koch Brothers and Bernie Madoff look like two bit gangstas.

Prescription for you Single Dad read Kurt Vonnegut's 1961 Book, Harrison Bergeron; and Ayn Rand's 1957 Book, "Atlas Shrugged", then tell me about how great these ideals of the Demoncraps are. (do not do the Cliff Notes thing (cheat) or you will miss a lot of the minor facts that combined together become big facts. Like how Greedy power hungry Politicians that you hired/elected stop US Technology, US Businesses (loss of Jobs), etc.). There are also many other History Books (not the later revised ones) that you should read.

It's unfair because it's an insane tax on a certain market where the consumers are addicted(some of them unaware of the effects of tobacco when they first started) to the product.

Real,

It's not unfair at all. You don't pay if you don't smoke. Period. End of converstation. Not only do you save $ but you save lives.

Very few people today can claim they didn't know it was harmful when you started, unless you started when you were 10 and are 70 today.

Actually, anyone who claims "I didn't know it was harmful" is FOS. First clue? hacking, coughing, and vomiting when you first tried it!

Are you talking about smoking or drinking alcohol?

JKLD,

What about a 1000% tax on fried foods? Make like french fries cost like $10.99 ? What about a tax on red meat of an extra $99.99 a pound?

Those are bad for your health, I lost many family members to heart disease. You don't like the tax, simply quit eating fried foods and red meat.

John,

A. Very rarely do I even eat fried foods. Besides, the city where I live already has a 10% tax on food.

B. Food, water, and air are essential for life. Smoking is not. Your argument holds no merit.

Don't like the tax on cancer sticks? Don't smoke.

JKLD, the red meat and fried food argument does hold up because this tax singles out one industry. Food, water, and air are essential, but when you single out just red meat or fried foods you're not taxing all foods, therefore you can still eat plenty other things and not have to pay the tax.

JKLD - So what it all boils down to is, it's all about YOU! You are a preachy, holier than thou, PITA. You've offered nothing of value in this discussion.

I stopped smoking almost thirty years ago when they hit 50 cents a pack. I knew it was bad for my health but I smoked anyway. My choice. I'm glad I quit but I refuse to preach at others. After all, you will quit eventually, one way or the other.

Smoking is addictive. Quitting is not easy. My method was cold turkey. Like ripping off a band-aid, it hurts, but the pain isn't dragged out over a long period of patches or 12-steps or any other BS quackery that only works for the people selling the drugs or whatever to you. I recommmend just toughing it out. In three weeks you'll have that monkey off your back and be free.

You are a preachy, holier than thou, PITA

Yep, and proud of it. Glad you have the common sense to quit.

And yes, it IS addictive. However, like any addiction, it can be beat. My dad did, but he also lost a lung because of the cancer stick - that's what it took to make him see the stupidity in it all. And btw, I had bought him all the anti-smoking aids on the market, but he, too, had to do it cold turkey. Was a real SOB for about 6 months, but he did it and lived another nearly 20 years.

For smokers - Don 't like the tax? Don't smoke and save lives.

Simple. Get over it.

A 10% tax on food is called sales tax, hardly comparable to the cigarette tax in NYC.

Fried food and red meat is required for survival? Hmmmmmm.

So basically, you just care about what YOU want. You're preaching cancer is bad because you lost a family member to cancer, but heart disease is ok.

If there was a mega tax on fried food and red meat, simply don't buy them!!! Simple. Get over it.

If the pot isn't calling the kettle black in all your posts...................lol.

But, since you ENJOY fried foods and red meat, they shouldn't be taxed. Gotcha.

JKLD...apparently you have lost your entire family to something...cigarettes, fried foods, red meat...geez girl you must have a hard life. No wonder you are such a bitter and hateful person. You really need to get over it!!! I think it's time you let go of your hatred of all things and all people. It's not the smokers fault your dad passed it's not the fault of other people who eat fried foods and red meat that you lost family members. It's their own damn fault and it's called personal responsibility and nothing else! If you don't like smoking it's understandable but if I do then it is my choice.

Be careful what you wish for. Once everyone stops smoking and not eating fried foods and red meat and not drinking...mark my words our great and glorious government will find something else they want to tax you on...how about the air we breathe? Your thoughts? Your opinion? Be careful...

ZZZZZ-

Reminds me of a society from the movie "Demolition Man". haha.

mark my words our great and glorious government will find something else they want to tax you on...how about the air we breathe? Your thoughts? Your opinion? Be careful...

Before they tax us on that, we will be paying too big to fail corporations to clean up the air they polluted through all the deregulation they lobbied so hard for.

Clean air delivered to you by [name your company here], sales tax added.

JKLD...It must be wonderful to be such a superior human being. I just can't imagine how you survive day to day among us mere mortals. You apparently don't like smokers, overweight people, or people that wear perfume. Wow. How did you ever find a mate to have those children you are talking about....Or are you, understandably DIVORCED?

JKLD,

After reading and thinking about your posts,, I have come to the conclusion that you have an answer for EVERYTHING! You seem to know-it-all! I don't know as much as you seem to know, but I do know that your hubris will have severe negative effects on your life. Humility is a GREAT word and virtue!

Colorblind,

Yes, I definitely dislike smokers. I have no problem with perfume/aftershave IF one uses it appropriately (i.e. not dumping it on yourself so that you can smell it 20 feet away). Overweight people? Nope, not at all. And no, I'm not divorced. I'm happily married for >30 years and hope to see many many more. Neither of us smoke nor tolerate it in our cars or home. We've both seen its effects first hands and know better.

Hopefully someone will come up with a 30% tax on Mydol,that would fix your sanctimonious ass.

Governments goals exist to preserve themselves and grow. Vote out all incumbents.

JKLD, it's hard to take you seriously when you insult other posters by implying that they have no common sense.

No, because you can't see past your own noses. You think if everyone stops smoking the criminals in government won't come after something you enjoy. Let's hear y'all whine then.

Very shortsighted individuals.

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience

crym-3897159

So, smoking is a sign of having common sense?

JKLD - So, smoking is a sign of having common sense?

So eating until you have to be buried in a shipping container is a sign of common sense.

So having more children than you can afford is a sign of common sense.

So not being a Vegetarian is a sign of common sense.

So you JKLD spamming Newsvine in attempts to justify greedy corrupt Politicians is a sign of common sense.

So not taxing everything "harmfull" at the same rate as cigarettes is a sign of common sense.

So not stopping those activities that cause more deaths, injuries, etc. than smoking is a sign of common sense.

Two words for you, JKLD, Troll, and Hypocrite.

They can't stop every single avenue of smuggling from the reservations. It's the best revenge the native americans can get on the white government.

I agree, and I am a proud supporter of the Seneca Nation.

Odd thing to do for a president who SMOKES!! He probably has the Secret Service provide him with seized contraband at no cost.

One more thing, it is not an illegal way to beat the dammbale tobacco companies and their asinine prices or the merchants prices plus taxes on top of that. Pipe tobacco works great, and is even better as far as I am concerned,

And I DON'T intend to quit either.

nowadays it is pretty hard to subject others to cigarette smoke as smoking is banned in most places.

Just as it should be.

I'm glad to see you don't believe in individual rights JKLD.

@JKLD the car exhaust you breathe in walking to work is far worse for your lungs than the 1/2 second of cigarette smoke you breathe as you go into your building. You have my sympathies for the family members that you lost due to smoking, obviously smoking can kill but random exposure on the street has never harmed anyone. People that have been exposed to "real" second hand smoke, ie a non smoker who has lived long term with an indoor smoker are the people at risk for second hand smoke. Casual exposure (while mildly obnoxious) is about as dangerous as (and equally obnoxious) as the person that wears too much perfume/cologne on the elevator. Get off your imaginary high horse dude and grow up. "Nobody likes a quitter" and everyone dies. Smoking since I was 11.

Real,

You have the right to kill yourself. But your right ends with my (and everyone elses) necessity to BREATH AIR.

Want to kill yourself? Go ahead. But you do NOT now, nor ever do or will have the right to take others with you.

Yikes,

Interesting that you're so proud of stupidity.

As you are?

The city's motivation wasn't about the tax money. They were only concerned for the smokers who were putting themselves at risk. (wink wink)

SKUP

If you believe that I'll tell you another one . I was born and raised in N.Y. lived there for 62 years Then I retired and got the hell out. GOVERNMENT in N.Y. will TAX and SUCK THE LIFE OUT OF YOU . Just ask anyone from there.

bob

bob1/28: re-read Skup's post...he was being sarcastic. He KNOWS it's all about the money and the govt. hypocrits are only claiming they are doing it for the public's health.

yessir, just like red light cameras are for public safety (nod, nod, wink, wink).

Yup! I read this after my post below, also consider that along with the black market is also created a huge number of new criminals resulting in more tax dollars being spent on law enforcement and jail and prison expenses.

You are the first person to get it Thank You

Governments just grow and become more punitive to their peoples to ensure their preservation unless measures are taken to combat this. Historic fact.

government doesn't like it when somebody else gets the money....it screws up using it for things its not supposed to be used for....like graft and bribes