Maybe you were blinded by the part that said Quantas board of directors just gave executives a raise? So how is a greedy union worse than a bunch of rich people giving themselves raises?

Hey Wally

When the CEO and board members make 200 Million in salary, 400 Million in perks, and that does NOT count bonuses for UNDERACHIEVING.

Then you call out the unions. I have no love for unions but this is the caustic management style we see in all big companies. Australia does not own a magic printing press like the USA. The people have actual power and can fore the company to "not act stupid".

The fat you say airlines bare barely profitable makes me laugh. Top 20 managers pay, perks, and bonuses are over a billion dollars at United.

Educate yourself. This is not a football game where you choose one side and cheer.

Unions have to draw a line in the sand. At what point do they let management do whatever they want? Maybe they should donate their labor? (Slave labor?) Maybe pay freezes, or worse, pay cuts, should be across the board. Then they wouldn't get so pissed off.

If the company is that strapped for revenue (which I serioiusly doubt!!) then they need to raise ticket prices along with a good PR campaign to offset the competition. No one said being in business is supposed to be easy. It just shouldn't be on the backs of your fellow human beings who are just trying to earn a decent living.

Are you so blinded by your far-sided ideology that you've missed the part of the story where Qantas gave a handful of top executives tens of millions of dollars per year in bonuses and salary increases meanwhile attempting to cut the pay and benefits of the working class because of so-called finanacial pressures? The amount they gave the handful of executives could cover a $1,000 raise per year for 20,000 employees. Maybe, Wally, you've been ignorant of the full details for the last 7 weeks that the dispute has been ongoing, but at least stick to the basic facts in the story you've commented to.

To Wally, (and the rest), if you don't like the way they do business start your own airline. The union does not have the right to tell any business how it should be run. Oh yea, Stopandthink, there is not a single union member in the world that does not make a decent living, but to the union if the person makes more then they (union) get more.

No a union does not have a right to tell a biz how to be run, however, it does have the right to tell a biz how the employees want to be paid. And when you see huge wage increases to the execs, and then a labor problem over pay I question the motivation.

Exactly Wally! The Quantas stockholders should call a special meeting, sell all of the aircraft and other assets, shut the doors permanently, and invest the proceeds in more profitable enterprises.

This way the customers can let go of their unreasoned anger at the corporation and understand that the workers were trying to gouge higher wages out of a struggling business. Only higher productivity (More ticket sales, can justify higher wages)

These investors have no obligations to stay in the business. Maybe the Union would like to buy the assets?

So sick of hearing about the price of fuel. Last time I looked, all airplanes run on fuel, so all airlines have about the same cost for fuel.

It's understandable why management is unhappy with a workforce that always demands more and wants to work less, and why the workforce is irate with a management that says "Do as I say, not as I do". Both sides are too stupid to realize that there is plenty of foreign competition to put them out of business. Darwin was right.

Human pilots on strike?

Koalas do not complain...

Ghost44........ my youngest son is in a union and makes a wopping $8.45 per hr! You consider that a decent living?

Ghost44 obviously has no clue what a union actually is, there's countless people that belong to unions that earn poverty level wages or just above working at grocery stores, theme parks, airports, government jobs, etc. But, since the rich white people say that they're supposed to come here and bash the unions they blindly follow orders.

yeah.what michael said.der

Hey wa wa wally, you need to check the companys share holders reports to see ,what they say there not making. Like you know pesky reports that they just gave ex`s a big money raise. Maybe next time you will check before you shoot off your brainwashed repub mouth

Some of the wealthiest "blue collar" workers are union kingpins. Go figure. And then there are taxpayer funded government union bosses. But nobody seems to be whining about that while employees are forced into unions and pay dues even if they didn't want to be union.

No, unions are no better than corporate America when it comes to that. Corruption, greed, and being drunk on power are well seeded in unions too. You just don't hear about it.

http://maciverinstitute.com/2011/02/labor-leaders-living-large/

Coracii, I think you are out of line and owe all white people an apology.. .

this is not a racist issue, don't use that worthless card, it only dilutes your position,

Liberals overextended the race card long ago. Now they are trying to pin racism on crackers/rednecks/neocons/Bushies/Repugs/Tea Party members (insert mindless liberal epithet here:____) who support Herman Cain by stating the only reason they support him is so they can say they aren't racist.

It's beyond sad...it's disgusting.

Hey Wally, you say Eastern Airlines was destroyed by unions? I worked for Eastern Airlines. Your talking out of the wrong body cavity. You obviously are either an idiot or stupid. Management greed led by the Anti-Christ Frank Lorenzo and the banks was what destruction Eastern Airlines. Airlines go into bankruptcy to steal employee pension plans, drastically reduce the employee incomes and in return they reward thenselves with million dollar bonuses. Take the time do some research before you make any more comments which identify you as being an ignoramus.

The fact that a company is losing money, and the execs vote 10 million dollar bonuses each, is not against the law is amazing to me. It is not capitalism it is thievery. Remove the top 10 salaries at most going broke companies and they are too profitable. It is just sickening to me

A really smart country would have labor represented on all boards of it's public owned corporations. What gives a CEO and a board the right to rob shareholders or labor. We could use a little more balance in Americ for sure.

Funny. It seems the World Leaders are now being bitten by the unwashed masses that they've been trying to crush for years. I shouldn't be enjoying such suffering from normals like me, however, now it's breaking into their daily routine, it's effecting masses of people, not just the strikers, but the companies they're striking and the unwashed masses who use them. I highly doubt it'll have a lasting effect though, as human beings tend to have short term memory over things like this, which works in the favor of these greedy, piggish executives.

Some of the posters here missed the story the comments are supposed to be about. The unions involved did not call for a strike. The airline involved unilaterally locked its employees out rather than continue to bargain with them in good faith. Bad airline! With very bad top executives!

Does anyone read?

The unions didn't strike. This was/is a lockout. It was management that shut it down, not the workers.

But hey, why let the facts get in the way of all the anti-union vitriol and rhetoric.

WALLY!..I guess with all those negative answers you can return your managnemt loving head back up your arse where it belongs.

I think all corporations should do the same thing verizon did when their local union technicians started protesting and disclose how much these angry union workers are being paid on average. When I heard that the local verizon technicians were striking over their measely $75k/yr, the last shred of my willingness to defend some aspects of unions went out the window.

I wouldn't be so quick to pitch those unions out the window. You might just toss the baby out with the bathwater. Transportation industry employees still need the protection of a union. It isn't for salary/benefits negotiating; it is having job protection when you refuse to do what management tells you because you deem it unsafe or even possibly a violation of federal regulations.

Talk to any flight crew member and you'll understand.

Roger, name me one of the ultra wealthy conservatives funding the tea-party movement and the far right-wing agenda that it entails that isn't caucasian. I'll be waiting here for your answer. My comment was in no way racist, it's a reality that the people holding the purse strings for both the republicans in congress and the tea partiers across the country all fit into a single description, wealthy and white.

Unless you've had enough and you're setting yourself up for acquisition, in which case giving yourselves big raises on the way out and screwing everyone else by dropping the value of everything for a quick and easy buyout fits right in.

Oh and I forgot one more perk: once these execs do sell out and move on they'll be seen as heroes to every global corporation in existence; they'll be flooded with offers so that other firms can put these "progressive thinkers" on display and make their workers think twice before beginning a dispute.

Customer relations are solely the responsibility of executives and upper management. The average employee's responsibilty is to perform his job to the best of his abilities for compensation that he/she believes is fair (otherwise, what's the point!).

The world went through this about 100 years ago ("robber barrons". It's just natural for the every day Joe to fight back the only way they can - as a group.

And don't forget unions, taxis, and restaurants which are suffering in both cases.

Sounds like this is the fault of the CEO/boardroom people rather than the union?

Paycuts and/or pension loss for the workers to pay for the CEO payouts?

Do you believe everything MSLSD says? They threw in the management bonus crap just for people like you.

This is just another union greed problem, I say break all unions. No more Unions! No more Unions! No more Unions! No more Unions! No more Unions! No more Unions! No more Unions! No more Unions! No more Unions! No more Unions! No more Unions! No more Unions! No more Unions! No more Unions! No more Unions! No more Unions! No more Unions! No more Unions! No more Unions! No more Unions!

Unions fight for the little guy. A livable wage for a days work. Why should less than 1% at the top make all the money? It's management that is greedy!!!!

Lets see, without unions you would not have health care, 40 hour weeks, minium or even reasonable wage. You would be working in unsafe conditions with broken equipment. Work on demand 85 hour weeks with no overtime pay. Unions have there place that is necessary. They need boundaries but so do the CEO's.You don't vote yourself a nice pay raise when you are asking to lay off 1000 people, buy billions in new aircraft and deny raises for your regular rank and file. As a matter of fact if you are a struggling company that is not being managed or profitable you don't get your raises and bonuses at all. Of course neither should the regular rank and file. When I worked for an airline and they asked for a pay freeze from us they took a pay freeze and even a bonus reduction. That was fair and as a result no strike. That is how it should work!

You want to know what the most powerful, most greedy union in the world is?

The United States Congress!

Well said, Mr. Tamborineman!! The whole lot should be fired !!

Post #5.4 ... correct. I retired from a railroad, when the company sat down with the union reps several items had to be covered. Cost of living (ex. healthcare), what workers of the same skill had in other fields (ex. construction), retirement plans, what the current profits were for the company, safety, hollidays, working conditions, and many other things were on the table.

Most of the employees had some company stock, mine averaged 150 shares. Top company managers may have 10,000 shares. Very little dividends were declared, the profits went into top management salaries. I made good wages, yet their Christmas bonuses were often more than my entire yearly salary. In their yearly "contract' they may even get "awarded" 1,000 shares of stock plus a raise.

Worker wages were rarely raised other than cost of living. At contract signing the company most often came out best.

Hey Boo Hoo your right no more Unions disban them all Including the United States of America the biggest Union ever formed correct.You people are so dumb you dont evan uderstand what a Union stands for pathetic.

Let's just say that I don't like it when those "basic economic" principles lead to starvation wages because "there are thousands of workers willing to take it to starve slow instead of fast." Unions very appropriately change the economic principles so that the company no longer has thousands of desperate people from which to choose. Then they finally have to start paying workers what they are worth.

01pw, you must be a billionaire owner of a corporation with union workers to have such hatred for the working man. Are you the greedy corporate board member you appear to be? Or do you just SUCK?

Considering that these union employees barely work 40 hours a week and have 6 weeks of vacation each year when the executives work 70+ hours a week, don't have family life and get a vacation maybe once every two years. I definately think the execs should get the raises first. The day I see a union employee work more than 40 hours WITHOUT overtime pay or pick up a bolt they dropped without having someone from maintenance do it for them is the day I'll stop supporting management over the employees.

Billbo....you must live in another world.

He is, he's in management like I was.

o1pw

Idiot

well OW1 lets see how you feel when they CUT your pay. threaten your job and don't pay you enough to make ends meet so they can pay their raises where you work and see how hard you choke on that crap.

the only thing unions are for today is the union! They once had a place and served a purpose. Today, they only exist for the union leaders so they can sit back and do nothing! They will call a strike to get a 25 cent an hour raise when it costs the workers several months of wages. On an 8 hour day, that's an increase of $2.00 and they lose on a $10.00 an hour job for each day $80.00 or $400.00 per week they are on strike. That's 200 hours they will have to work for each week they are on strike, just to make up what they lost on strike. 800 hours for a month. Really worth it!

When the CEO of Disney made 600 million in salary and God knows what in bonuses he had children working in Haiti for 12 cents and hour. Such spiritualy bankrupt pigs will do anything. We need many more unions all over the world. A public owned corporation should not be allowed to act in the coldblooded evil way that is destroying America

Unions suck huh thier the reason there are laws to protect the worker,fair wages and the weekend ,the 40 hour work week.Realy let the company do what they want let Unions go away and see what you get.People we have to repeat history for you to wake up again.

It's sad when something designed to help people actually hurts them. You realized and got out. How many lemmings does that leave?

Greed. Sir you have the wrong idea of a union. you are why this country is going down the toilet. Why our wages stink and so much off shoring. Reason why the entire system will go down.

This is what you are saying :" I Had freedom once, a democratic vote. But I never got exactly what I think I deserved and what I think other people should have wrought, so I rather have a complete dictatorship-- I'm a success full brown noser and my nose is filled with oozy fat chunks." <<--essentially your are a rat. Maybe a snake. SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I have worked in Union grocery stores.

NEVER AGAIN.

Jeremy, you've got it backwards. Unions are the reason manufacturing jobs are off shoring labor. Paying a high school drop out $70k a year (including benefits) to turn a bolt is just plain wrong.

Having a high school or college diploma and getting a job nowadays is a miracle.

Unions are just PART of the problem.

You were lucky you were in a union plant you had a job for 23 years , it meant they could not fire your ass for somebody younger and cheaper or did you stay working without a raise or vacation for 23 years like a good little employee . Then again there probably was not much competition for your floor sweeping job

I was going to say just that. The union spends 100% of it's time representing the 10% of goof-off trouble makers who don't want to work or show up for work. You can't get rid of them, you can't fire them, they'll get paid if you suspend them.

Germany is heavily unionised and they have better wages, better benefits, full health care and a higher standard of living than the US. The also have labor represented on their corporate boards. This leads to a much smaller income gap and some sense of community. American workers are often treated like they don't count.

We need many more unions and we need to force our public owned corporations to pay our minimum wages wherever they go. This would bring back jobs and show a little respect for workers. Of course for that we need a government.

I worked in the auto industry in Detroit and I'm quite sure that a German auto worker does not have it better. My coworkers all had two cars and most have very nice boats or a summer house up north, let's not forget the jet skis and snow mobiles and a lot of time off to use them.

The average pay including benefits is about $72.00 per hr. And a lot of these jobs are as simple as pushing a button on a stamping machine after making sure the sheet metal is square, or putting 4 bolts in a seat that a robot put in a car, my favorite one is driving a car off the line and parking it for $72.00 per hr.

Frank has a good idea. If Wal-Mart could only sell merchandise made by workers getting at least the minimum wage for the state the Wal-Mart store was located in that would shut China down.

That is what I see at my airline ,too. Unions take your dues and protect bad employees. Their leaders and representatives are as corrupt as any politician. Though the heads of companies supposedly in financial distress taking hefty bonuses is sickening.

terriets; It's hear already and if we don't put millions in the streets the pigs will soon have us in depression and chaos.

I agree, I'm going to wait to comment until more information comes in on this story. I'm hoping that the obvious gaps are just due to this being a very recent story. With that said, I am impressed with the amount of details they were able to present/report so far.

It is an interesting development with what appears to be a much deeper story behind the actions on all sides. I look forward to reading more on this.

Exactly.
And people wonder why the US is in a toilet as wages decline and middle class join the poverty levels. Only 7% of the work force in the US are union.

Hey Jeremy-431970, that is 7% too many!!!

America WANTS to be a third world country! BUY from China now, WORK for China later.

People want EVERYONE ELSE to work for nothing, but take a dime from them and they squeel like a pig. Buy from Walmart, put America out of business (ore at least work for 75¢ a day). Don't cry when it is YOUR turn to get your wages cut. But don't worry a CEO will enjoy his new personal jet.

Post # 11.3 ... I voted (4th vote) for you but have an exception. Most company jets are for making MONEY/SAVING money. My son-in-law, a lowly engineer puts more hours a year on the company jet than top management, as does others such as salesmen, etc. If a plant somewhere in the company is down they need the engineer NOW, not when a commercial flight may be available. If a salesman can make a contract before a competitor the jet pays for itself. Company management mostly use the slow "cheep" prop airplane for vacations, etc.

Company jets have an undeserved poor public reputation.

Rypical CRAB SYNDROME. You can't make it so you pull everyone else down. Maybe if people made more they would spend more, creating jobs and a good economy.

If you must put money in other people's pockets would you rather put it in the pockets of working people or: Enron, CitiCorp, AIG, Chase, JP Morgan, Bernie Madoff, or Board members of corporations?

And the company does not hold hostage college educations of kids, mortgages, health care, savings. retirement, of all of its employees?

It is a tremendous expense in time and money to become a pilot. Pilots get paid form the time the door on the aircraft is closed until it is opened. The inspection of the plane, preperation of the flight, time spent waiting in airports, etc. is on him. Also FREE TIME, is time away from home, missing holidays, family events, long waits in airports, just to mane a few.

JUST ONE EXAMPLE:

UNIONS make sure a pilot stays in a nice quiet hotel room rather than a flea bag place, so he can relax and be ready for the next flight. The union makes sure transportation to/from hotels are provided so the pilot is not waiting hours and can get rest. DO YOU want your pilot to stay in a fleabag dive and listen to loud music all night and worry about getting mugged prior to flying your family over the Pacific?

Brian:

Perhaps you would like to pay better attention. According to the article, the planes are down because management decreed that it shall be so. The union workers were still reporting to work. That would make it management that is "more than willing to take passengers hostage."

Brian, you did not read the article. It was not the union that took the passengers hostage. They were taken hostage by the airline. If anyone should face legal action it should be the CEO of the airline. Let justice be served. Place the blame where it rightfully belongs.

Ie is quite possible to run Quantas without a CEO, it is IMPOSSIBLE to run Quantas (or ant other airline) with out PILOTS and CREW. Who is more important here?

Board gets Millions, company buys 9 Billion worth of NEW aircraft, and 1000 people lose jobs and remainer take cuts. Screw Quantas.

When they get bought out the NEW company will NEED pilots and Crew to operate.

I think it would be easier for the airlines to hire pilots and crew than for the pilots and crew to come up with their own planes and run their own company.

You want an airline run without a CEO? Who makes the decisions, a committee made up of pilots and crew? You'd have a company that pays great, but not much else.

Want a good job? Get some skills.. Not a Mickey Mouse Mafia Organization which does nothing but inconvenience everyone and pay people for years of service instead of motivation and hard work.

Hooray for Alan Joyce. At least someone is standing up to the continuous extortion practiced by unions.

WILMAN Said: Want a good job? Get some skills..

Ever try to fly a Boeing 777 for 3,000 miles? Exactly what SKILLS are you talking about? What an idiot.....

Typical right wing comments! You guys probably spend most of your working days round the water cooler or sending personal e-mails. Oh I forgot! Possibly porn sites. Unions and their members are not perfect but they usually mirror the employers that they're up against.

How can you buy an airline when you are on food stamps?

A first year pilot makes 16~24K for the first years. A pizza delivery guy can make that, without 1500 hours of flight time and years of training.

When you are 30,000 feet over the Pacific, do you want your pilot making minimun wage, no health insurance flying sick because he cannot afford to miss a day? What YOU want is a WALMART Pilot!

Have you seen how much the Qantas pilots make? It's not 16K. Qantas employees are the highest paid in Australia.

That comment was made by a pissed of corporate PR person trying to villianize the strikers. The union just wants negotiating on work rules like breaks, rest periods, overtime pay and compensation. If they stood up to unethical decisions like large pay raises and huge purchases at the expense of the workers then good for them. I would even support the purchase of the new equipment. Don't you dare vote yourself big raises and perks while taking it away from someone else and then tell everyone else the reason is poor profitability.

@rick, If company executives are putting short term gains (ie bonuses and stock option) at the forefront while putting the companies long term future at risk it is the Unions responsibility to speak up to protect their workers long term employment future. Unfortunately greed usually begets greed and the unions just try to get what they can without trying to actually do the right thing. How strong a union is is not the real problem, it is what the union uses its strength to do that is.

Unions only care about getting more and more. Unions refuse to take a pay cut or make any concessions, and watch the company close or move overseas. The attitude that the company needs you more than you need them is ridiculous.

I just flew Qantas and watched as 3 union members and 2 supervisors stood at the baggage carousel. One man picked up each piece of luggage as it came down the belt, tossed it back on in a manner that made it fall off as it rounded the corner and the passengers then had to pick it up from the floor and put it back on in the correct manner. It took five men to conduct this circus. These are the workers that that the airline can't do without? Please.

@O'really, In the article it states that the CEO and executives voted themselves a nice pay raise. I guess that has nothing to do with wanting more and more.

Everybody wants more and more. It doesn't state in the article when the execs got their last raise, or whether they deserved it or not. The union's grievance was not that the execs got a raise, since they've been striking for months, before said raises were given. There's greed on both sides, but it's the attitude of the unions that they are more important than management that I have a problem with.

I didn't decide to fly Qantas because of the crew or baggage handlers, I decided because of the routes they fly, the schedules of the flights, the planes they have, the entertainment system they offered and the reputation of the company, all decisions made by management, not workers. I would not get on a 16 hour flight on some little airline I never heard of, no matter how talented the pilots and baggage handlers were.

Without customers, there is no company, and the execs are responsible for attracting the customers and bringing money into the company. They get to decide what to do with that money. If the pilots and crew don't like it, they are free to go to another airline or start their own.

In a case like that I would agree. However this has different issue stated in the article. If they provide something similar in reasons then fine.

@ o'really, The reputation of the company is wholly the responsibility of management? Boy you just took a load off all the people who's only concern is punching a timeclock and collecting a paycheck. Oh and workers can now stop working so hard on customer service skills. Sorry it is a team effort. I dont care if management says it offers excellent customer service, I want to see it. Oh and if there is an airline with excellent baggage service, management cant advertise it unless the WORKERS are doing it.

Quantas is public owned and labor should have as much rigt to influence decisions as an overpad CEO who is stealing from share holders and squeezing workers.

Where do all these people come from that have so little respect for workers? They can't all be 1%ers. Some of them must have no respect for them selves.

I have owned three sucessful businesses and I can see that greed by banks, wall street and big corporations is destroying America, They own our government, the media and the minds of too many.

I fully support unions and the protesters. If we do nothing insane greed and evil will destroy us.

Republic bought additional aircraft for additional routes, but first wanted to break the union by furlowing 59 pilots. The first day they had to cancel 40 flights. Even the company shoots themselves in the foot sometimes.

Or when the UNION aggreed to take pay cuts (Contential) because the business was down and needed to cut back on expenses to survive, only to discover months later the board of directors got millions in bonuses.

Don't hand me that 'Lily White' company crap. Everyone is fighting for their own good. In flight school I learned what makes an airplane fly: MONEY. If you want to fly, pay the price or take the bus.

okay but again your information does not provide a full set of reasons for the employees decision to do this. Most employees would not just start doing this unless there was underlying reasons. The issues are much more involved and complex I am sure.

Of course CEOs making many million would never stretch the truth. We saw that when the CEO of BP was exposed to the public. The man was not only incompetent, when he appeared before a committee he acted doped.

To become the CEO of a big corporation you must prove you will do anything and that is the one quality most of them have. So, even if you are bright and competent, with no character you will screw employees in a minute, without thought.

No, we don't want corrupt unions. We want better unions.

We have corrupt banks and corporations what part of them do you want to abolish? Insurance companies are corrupt to the bone. Do you think we should abolish them. Why is it only unions that so many want to abolish for not being saintly?

After months of work stoppages and sick outs by the unions. I flew Qantas the beginning of this month and flights were being canceled and delayed because of the unions, not the airline. If the unions want to disrupt flights and inconvenience passengers, they shouldn't get paid for it.

Unions have long lost their usefulness (hence their low membership)

Union usefulness is just starting to be seen. When the average U.S. citizen's wage increases 30-60% in 30 years while CEO wage has gone up 200+% people start to notice. Low membership is due to corporate backed laws that stifle the workers right to organize. People are starting to realize that solidarity gets them more than standing alone. Just look at the OWS movement. Basically voicing what the unions have been saying for a hundred years

not stupidity of management ... its greed! trust me they are smart and the majority are out only for themselves. i know , i've worked for enough of them in the past.

LN; Exactly right. These people are not ignorant or stupid they are greedy to the point of coldblooded evil.

Unions have not lost their usefulness, what has happened is that union leadership has made their unions into mini corporations in themselves. They have lost their way.