"It is amazing that this is still possible," said ZKB trading analyst Claude Zehnder. "They obviously have a problem with risk management. Even when the amount isn't so high it is once more a loss of confidence that casts UBS in a poor light."

So the amount is not so high? Really?
About two months ago I spent 25 days in Jail. My first time ever. It was hell. Absolute hell. And then I find out the charges against me were dropped.
I was accused of lying. No money lost, no one hurt, just freaking lying. What amazed me about the experience is how the officials running the prison treated people as if they were no good motherf'rs. "A shame to your family", like one of them kept telling everyone.
This, supposedly, in the "presentence" section. I can't imagine what it must be like after someone gets sentenced.
All the while I kept thinking about people in Wall Street and bankers and politicians and the immense damage they've done to economies all around the world and how so few, so few, of them have paid any price for it.
I kept thinking about people in prison around the world and how you're fu'kd if you don't have the money to have a team of lawyers taking care of you because you either don't have the money or your case is not good enough to give these lawyers a name.
This is one f'd up world and it's not getting any better. Be it in the so-called "industrialized" and "civilized" world or in the Third, Fourth or whatever other world. If you don't have the money, if you don't know the right people, you're screwed.

It's unfortunate , but I'm affraid you're right.

A $2 Billion Dollar Loss "Will Effect" their Bottom-Line. The company is looking at a total loss of $4 Billion Dollars by the time it replaces the $2 Billion Loss into the affected accounts. Customers and Shareholders will all take a hit.

The Swiss do not need chocolate or clocks, as they have been artfully managing and manipulating money since the Middle Ages, and are very good at what they do.

Currently an estimated one-third of all funds held outside the country of origin (sometimes-called "offshore" funds) on deposit in Switzerland.

In 2001, Swiss banks managed US$ 2.6 trillion, and that is only from the U.S.

I doubt the $2 billion loss will be given a second glance by the banking system itself. This is just merely a risk of doing business in the business of money.

That's the answer, make those toxic loans, hire embezzlers and then cut the heads off the honest hard working employees!

AH! UBS! The new home of former Republican Senator from Texas, Phil Gramm! You remember Phil Don't you? He's the guy who helped DEREGULATE the Investment banks and gave them the same equal footing with regular banks. Then it wasn't too long afterwards that these newly unregulated Investment banks SCREWED the living piss out of planet Earth with the banking debacle of 2008. When people complained, PHIL GRAMM called us all "a bunch of whiners." He made the list of the top 25 people who helped cause the collapse of our economy in 2008. It is little wonder he went to work for one of these finagling Mega banks after his "retirement." F--k UBS, Phil Gramm and the rest of these Investment Banks. Put the collar of regulation back on these filthy scum companies and chain them to their dog houses where they can be watched.

And you thought you could trust Swiss bankers lol (sarcasum)

you got to love the guy that said this was no big loss. Is he a retired US politician ?

2 billion is nothing for these guys and they'll be around for years...look at citibank after the financial spill here it made 4.4 billion profit in one business quarter in 2010

If you honestly think this trader wasn't being supported by this bank your a fool. This bank knows full well what he was doing it was just another Gamble for the banks and the people end of paying for the gamble.

By claiming he was a Rouge Trader they wash themselves of liability.

You would think a bank, of all places, would have some control over it's financial matters to prevent "rogue" trading. Try being overdrawn and see how quick they catch that. And, of course, it's the "teabaggers" fault!!

It's time that ordinary everyday people get off of the credit cards and start taking all of your money out of the banks and keeping it at home like in the old days. That'll show the bastards!

They call it "risk". So do gamblers. What's the difference if the risk is at UBS or at some casino? The basis of risk is "who" they are risking and with "whose" money. At least most gamblers have to rely on their own money. These banking pigs don't even have the common decency to risk their own money. This is nothing more than a disgrace. UBS should be ashamed to even think they can downplay this kind of thievery.

Post 1.6 runs some good numbers for all to read.

UBS is so shady and it is impossible to know how huge their holdings are.

It is said that they are sitting on trillions just in gold from WWII.

I am not concerned about this minor incident.

As Cramer put it this morning (in so many words) it would be like CSX, the train company, losing all of their 250 ton locomotives and not knowing what happened to them!

You just can't "Hide" trades today........I smell more than one rat!

What otherwise are they going to say? We were directly involved and no we didn't pay some idiot to fall on his sword for the company. Chances are the guy is a complete dumb sh1t and they put this on him knowing he would take the rap. Banks have an awful lot of money for corruption. Do you honestly think they wouldn't stoop to framing someone else in order to save their own jobs. Y'all know how lucrative the banking system is. Their motto has to be never take the blame for sh1t except our bottom line.

Offer Kweku immunity if he'll help bust the CEOs. Make an example of bad financial banking and prosecute them to the full extent of the law instead of imprisoning those with a joint in their sock.

what did they expect...his favorite song was...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfCwdqWuvxo

Question. Was there ever a rouge trader that made money.

Imagine working at UBS one day, just doing your job and then all of the sudden be arrested because UBS shifted all of their bad dealings onto your account and hung you out to dry as a "Rogue Trader" when you did absolutely nothing wrong. What's the life of one employee worth? Apparently not $2B.

They hired a Nigerian and they wonder where their money went?

It went to help a "Princess" get her father's chest of money out of the "Security" companies vault.

There were endless fees and palms to grease......apparently it took about 2 billion.

Same Goes Here.

Bigger the Billions Bilked.

Prouder the GOP are..

They can Fly OVER the POOR and HUNGRY.....

I suggest the death penalty for losses over one billion dollars.

That Alone would be automatic TERM LIMIT..

Plus TRUE Conservatives might actually happen..?

Same Goes Here.

Bigger the Billions Bilked.

Prouder the GOP are..

They can Fly OVER the POOR and HUNGRY.....

How does something that happened in Europe equate to US politics?

Do you liberals politicize everything?

As for the "poor and hungry," only a liberal would deem using the force of government to confiscate that which belongs to one in order to give to another justified theft.

Poverty in the US is voluntary, and I, having traveled extensively, can attest that we do not have true poverty in the US.

C'mon guys - stop being so naive. This guy is just the fall guy. He will be set for life once he gets out of prison, if he even gets jail time. What's the bet that some of that $2bn went into the pockets of our politicians here in the good ol' USA?

And while we on this, can some-one please get Ryan to up the tax on the middle-class to 90%, so that we can gie these guys even bigger tax breaks?

Economic and regulations teabagger style.

Vote for ANY rrepub or randian libertarian greedy pig and this will be standard policy in the US, minus ANY penalities for the crooks at the top.

This kind of crap IS teabagger official policy.

Wow, I have seen stupidity before, but it was not pure. It was cut with sarcasm and maybe a hint of truth.

But this.....

This is pure, unadulterated, industrial strength stupidity! Anyone capable of producing this much stupidity surely must require regular reminders to breathe.

Then again, it is this type that helped elect the current resident, and that only took commercial grade stupidity.

And the Republicans want to turn over social security to the banks! I wouldn't trust them with a christmas club account.

I find it amazing how many rogue traders have been able to loose billions of dollars (Euros, francs, whatever) yet these banks have not instituted checks and balances to monitor their employees' transactions. The local quicky mart loses $20 and they know about it!

And for those politicizing this and blaming the GOP and Tea Party, really? I know, why don't we feed the homeless to the hungry so as to eliminate both problems.

And the Republicans want to turn over social security to the banks! I wouldn't trust them with a christmas club account.

It was LBJ, a DEMOCRAT that turned Social Security into a Ponzi scheme. He used the funds that were supposed to go to future recipients and used it to pay for his war.

Now we are left with a 47 trillion dollar unfunded liability in the Social Security trust fund all thanks to a Democrat.

There are traders, managers, even directors, none of which would have statutory responsibilities. Statutory responsibilities lie squarely on the executives. Where are the executives responsible for this 'rogue' trader? Who keeps tabs on these traders with so much value responsibilities? Sorry, but I would like to see some high level executive heads roll on this one and not simply railroad the 'rogue' trader.

How do I get that job, i'll take 5 years in prison in exchange for 2 billion dollars.

Really??? Poverty in the U.S. is voluntary??? Are you insane! Sure, I would choose to be homeless, no money, no medical insurance, no job....give me a break!! I don't think ANY of our poor people (1 in 6 in the U.S. according to the latest census) CHOOSES to be poor!

They have learned their talking points well. Carter signed the CRA, which started the ball rolling for the housing bubble. Barney and Pelosi both stated there was no reason for concern over Freddie/Fannie and Barney appointed his boyfriend a lush position in Freddie. Then there was Raines, who made unaccounted for millions off of Freddie/Fannie and has never been investigated.

The Congress is very good at covering up for its members, Maxine Waters is tied to banks and influence peddling for said banks. Don't hear much about that these days. Seems the CIC can't get it together to do a proper investigation on any of them or when they do, a wristslap and naughty-naughty is the punishment.

How many democrats that Obama was trying to appoint turned out to have tax dodgy problems? Look at Timmy, and he's the Treasury Secretary. Clinton has his share of dodgy actions, all well swept under the carpet. The new revisionist history of Clinton balancing the budget never, ever mentions how Gingrich, the republicans in congress and the Contract for America were the real reasons. No, the revisionists are doing a great job at demonizing republicans and giving a pass to the equally culpable democrats.

Really "As for the "poor and hungry," only a liberal would deem using the force of government to confiscate that which belongs to one in order to give to another justified theft."

It's a better choice than CORPORATE WELFARE - give help to the poor and hungry, or give help to the rich corporations who dont need the "tax cuts and loopholes".

morally, its a really tough call...I know.

This doesn't have anything to do with Republicans, the Tea Party or the Democrats. This has to do with the corruption and greed that exists all over our planet. The only correlation it has to our political parties is the fact that many of them are corrupt and greedy. I am not saying every politician is corrupt and greedy but there are plenty of them out there.

Didi - actually, many do make that choice. I know a few myself...to pretend otherwise, is insane. My cousin, who's daughter had a kid at 17 and dropped out of high school, cant be bothered to find a job...but is on welfare, wic, ect...a few months ago I saw her soliciting on facebook for housing leads, and friend says:

"you should check out such-n-such apts, if you have no job your rent and utilities are covered, just gotta pay for trash pick up, its a sweet deal"

to which my cousin replied:

"no way, thats awesome yo...i'll be checking that out, fo sho"

Guess where she lives now? Of course, she does bitch daily about not having enough money for ciggy's (cigarettes) and having no vehicle and having to rely on other people for rides...but get a job and take of her needs? Thats just crazy talk...she's got a kid dont ya know? How can she get a job?

What we have had for a very long time, since 1913 officially, is the intrusion of private banking cartels into the government. 'Give me control of the money and I will control the country." A paraphrase of a quote from Baron Rothschild, the key figure in the creation of the global banking empire.

Go look into this person, he is the key for all that is happening with the money in the world today.

Really??? Poverty in the U.S. is voluntary??? Are you insane! Sure, I would choose to be homeless, no money, no medical insurance, no job....give me a break!! I don't think ANY of our poor people (1 in 6 in the U.S. according to the latest census) CHOOSES to be poor!

Yes, poverty in the US is voluntary.

If you choose not to work, that is your choice. There are people in this country right now that are 60 years old and have NEVER held a job in their lives. Yet they receive housing, food and spending money from the government. These people are considered "poor" yet by their own choosing, they live that way and the system set in place by well intentioned politicians who take from others by force to subsidize these "poor" people enables them to do so.

So yeah..... Poverty in the US IS voluntary, yet it is not true poverty since there is always some "do-gooder" politician ready to make himself look good by "helping" these people.

mygirl: The same Timmy you mention (Geithner) is the one that work for Kissinger, went to work for the CFR, was appointed Chairman of the Federal Reserve of NEW York under BUSH and went to help PAULSON to arrange the rescue and sale of Bear Sterns and AIG. And you saying the republicans what???

mygirl: The same Timmy you mention (Geithner) is the one that work for Kissinger, went to work for the CFR, was appointed Chairman of the Federal Reserve of NEW York under BUSH and went to help PAULSON to arrange the rescue and sale of Bear Sterns and AIG. And you saying the republicans what???

Yet he STILL could not find his way to pay his taxes......

justice: I'm not sure about the 'and you're saying the republicans what???" in reference to Geithner. If you want to put Bush in the mix please ask, who was it who reappointed Geither and proudly stands behind him and refused to accept his resignation????

It's also a very interesting background that you have presented for our dear Timmy. You made an excellent chronicle of how the Fed and Goldman and the banks are controlling and have controlled our government. Go read 'All the Devils are Here' and then go to Frontline and view 'the Warning.' We need to get rid of the Fed and the Central banks, they are the real rulers of the world and they are the worst kind of rulers.

It's a better choice than CORPORATE WELFARE - give help to the poor and hungry, or give help to the rich corporations who dont need the "tax cuts and loopholes".

True, corporations do receive tax breaks and there are loopholes aplenty. Yet these same corporations employ people who pay taxes and contribute to society.

Unlike the career "poor" who pay no taxes, yet receive an endless supply of "stuff."

It all comes down to "stuff."

The folks who are getting free "stuff" don't like the folks who are paying for the free "stuff", because the folks who are paying for the free "stuff", can no longer afford to pay for both the free "stuff" and their own "stuff" at the same time.

Thus, the folks who are paying for the free 'stuff' want the free 'stuff to stop...but the folks who are getting the free 'stuff' want even MORE free 'stuff' on top of the free 'stuff' they are already receiving!

Now the people who are FORCING people to PAY for the free 'stuff' have told the people who are receiving free stuff that the people who are paying for the free stuff are mean, prejudiced, and even racist.

So the people who are getting the free 'stuff' have been convinced they need to HATE the people who are PAYING for the free 'stuff', because the people who pay for the free stuff are selfish.

However, those getting the free stuff are promised MORE free 'stuff' if they will vote for the PEOPLE who force the people who pay for the free stuff to give them even MORE free 'stuff'.

This all happens, because people who WORK for a living are outnumbered by those who only VOTE for a living.

Waldo- don't forget that CONGRESS makes the laws that benefit the rich you so hate.

And that 22 of the last 25 administrations have had either a Democratic President or Congressional majority. So, just WHO is responsible?..... It's not just the GOP, by a long shot.

This is not say that the GOP isn't responsible too, but if you are looking for the guilty, it's the party of the guy you see in the mirror every morning.....

MY GIRL - well said......

You don't believe in man-made climate change. You don't believe in evolution. You don't believe there are poor people in this country except lazy people and cons. Do you believe in motives? What's your motive for declaring that the obvious does not exist?

Those of us that do acknowledge the science and facts before our very eyes can see thru you as well. The motives for all of your silly denials rest solely with unadulterated greed and self-adoration that would put Narcissus to shame.

You don't believe in man-made climate change.

Nope, it is a scam designed to redistribute monies from the "rich" countries to the "poor" countries. Al Gore was set to make millions on his "Carbon Exchange" market. Money is at the very root of that "science."

Have the Maldives sunk yet?

You don't believe in evolution.

I do believe in evolution. The Aborigines have proven that theory as they share only 99.6% of our DNA while a chimpanzee shares 99.9%

You don't believe there are poor people in this country except lazy people and cons.

There are "poor" people in the US. Yet our "poor" people make, on average, 17 times what the "poor" in other developed countries make. That would hardly make them "poor."

My motive? I have no motive other than to take what others accept as a "given" and point out that what they see is often not the whole story.

As for your insults, maybe you should look at things in another way.

There may indeed be man-made climate change, deforestation is one of the primary causes. Interesting that photosynthesis, the process where plants convert CO2 into oxygen is never mentioned, isn't it. Interesting that CO2 is toxic, when the most corrosive element on the planet is Oxygen.

What is interesting is how well the propaganda machines are working. What was it about Kyoto that had Bush leave the room? No one seems to be aware that all of the cap and trade and taxes and carbon exhcanges use the US as the whipping boy. We are to devolve to third world status and pay for the privilege of elevating third world countries so that they too can become major polluters, consumers and excretors.

Gore and GE and a host of others were all lined up to profit handsomely from legislation (created by the UN, the unbiased and ever egalitarian UN, sponsor of Agenda 21) that would have 'traded' poisons. Ingenious. Now they can tax the air we breathe and reap untold riches in the process.

The climate change arguments are probably correct. Unfortunately, as is often the case. a need for social or environmental change is used as a massive scheme to extract wealth under the excuse of doing 'something for the betterment of the planet.'

There may indeed be man-made climate change, deforestation is one of the primary causes. Interesting that photosynthesis, the process where plants convert CO2 into oxygen is never mentioned, isn't it. Interesting that CO2 is toxic, when the most corrosive element on the planet is Oxygen.

3/4's of the oxygen is created by plankton in the oceans.

Co2 is a TRACE gas! I would believe that it could cause some change in the temperature IF the amount of Co2 was increasing. It is not. Less than 1/2 of 1% of the atmosphere is Co2, yet Al Gore would have us believe that it is an invisible monster destroying the planet.

There is more Argon gas in the atmosphere than Co2.

Directly from the UBS websitte:

We have five key principles which are intended to support the firm in achieving an appropriate balance between risk and return. These principles are:

• Protection of financial strength by controlling our overall risk exposures and assessing potential risk concentrations at the position and portfolio levels, and in combination across all risk types and business divisions.

• Reputation protection which depends, among other things, on the effective management and control of risks. Our risk culture demands that all employees make the protection of our reputation an overriding concern.

• Business management is accountable for all risks and is responsible for the continuous and active management of risk exposure to ensure that risk and return are balanced.

• Independent control of risk through risk control functions which monitor the effectiveness of business risk management and oversee risk taking activities.

• Disclosure of risk to provide comprehensive, transparent and periodic reporting to senior management, the BoD, shareholders, regulators, rating agencies and other stakeholders.

Our risk management and control principles are implemented via a risk management and control framework. The framework comprises qualitative elements such as policies and authorities, and quantitative components including risk measurement and limits.

The framework is dynamic and is adapted as the firm's businesses and the market environment evolve. It includes clearly defined processes to deal with new business initiatives and complex or unusual transactions.

http://www.ubs.com/1/e/investors/risk.html

Complete and TOTAL lack of risk assessment throughout the UBS management as mandated by their own policies.

Too big to fail ? Nah, the shareholders should take ALL management officials to court along with the "Rogue Trader".

Really 1739

Poverty is VOLUNTARY

Who Gave you a TRUST FUND==Cake Eater LIAR......................................

Poverty is VOLUNTARY

Who Gave you a TRUST FUND==Cake Eater LIAR......................................

What does this even mean?

Yes, you either choose to work or not. There are plenty of people who choose not to work. Therefore they have volunteered to be poor.

You really need to travel outside of the US if you want to see some truly poor people.

Cake==Eater Liar. Ok, that makes sense. Sorta. Well, maybe, then again....

You Talked to EVERY person living in Poverty in the USA....?

Until then You KNOW NOTHING.........................

Some are VETS..................................!

Greed is NO EXCUSE......

Yes, you either choose to work or not. There are plenty of people who choose not to work. Therefore they have volunteered to be poor.

Having a job is no guarantee that one isn't living in poverty. There are far too many minimum wage jobs, with no benefits (i.e. no health insurance). There are many hard-working, poor people. And, there are many people who aren't working and would like to be, but can't find a job.

Total Ignant Piece if works.

Like I said..There are VETS as well...............

I Guess the Passionate Conservative lie ...

Won't be Uttered This Round of lies....!

"I've been poor and I've been rich and of the two, I'll take rich over poor anytime."

Talullah Bankhead

Really?-1739510, you most certainly have motives. All of us have motives. Some are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and placed in positions of responsibility while lacking sense enough to get out of the rain.

Some are motivated to protect the wealth they have accumulated or inherited at any and all costs.

Some realize that they came from families with the means to provide an advanced education and connections to get a leg up on making a good living.

Some have worked their butts off to achieve success despite poor beginnings. All of those(that are honest) will be the first to admit that several lucky breaks and their ability to impress important mentors had much more to do with their success than all of their hard work.

Some have slept their way to the top or shown a willingness to betray everything they have been taught to climb up the ladder of success regardless of the innocents they may trample.

Some have worked their butts off for years but lack the physical or mental abilities to earn more than minimum wage. Those are the hard workers that serve you faithfully at fast food establishments as you deny them a living wage. That's a sacrilege that should keep you awake at night as you look forward to the dollar menu to serve you a hurried breakfast or lunch the next day.

Some have worked their fingers to the bone devoting their best years and loyalty to greedy corporations that propose massive lay-offs or mass firings to deprive them of hard-earned retirement benefits and their very livelihood. They are left in the cold as the CEO is awarded a $50 million dollar annual bonus for his efforts.

Some have worked hard and responsibly for decades to provide for their families and retirement to have serious health problems or a devastating accident result in denial of promised benefits by the insurance company despite paying expensive premiums for all of those years.

Some are young families filled with promise and dreams to later have a deadbeat spouse abandon the family and leave the remaining spouse with no means to support hungry children.

Yes, there are those that scam the system because they are lazy bums with no drive to ever succeed beyond what they can get for nothing.

Do you honestly believe that all of the unfortunate belong in the last category? Can you honestly look at all of the above categories and choose the one that best fits you? There is no need to admit that truth to anyone except yourself. Once you have honestly accepted the truth about yourself, can you continue to spout such nonsense? If so, your lies harm you more than anyone else.

Total Dillweed.....................................

I have worked for a man who came to this country unable to speak the language, much less read or write.

He is now a millionaire.

Still has trouble with speaking the language but can read and write.

The US is the last land of opportunity. If one chooses to take advantage of the opportunities we have, one will succeed. If not, then one will live in poverty.

That is a voluntary situation.

As for poverty, I suggest that some of you intellectuals travel to other countries and you will see true poverty. Something you won't see here.

But no, you will deny that which is in front of your face. Such is the mindset of the typical liberal who only sees the helpless, and gets taken in by the clueless every time.

Really?-1739510, you most certainly have motives. All of us have motives. Some are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and placed in positions of responsibility while lacking sense enough to get out of the rain.

Some are motivated to protect the wealth they have accumulated or inherited at any and all costs.

A voluntary action.....

Some realize that they came from families with the means to provide an advanced education and connections to get a leg up on making a good living.

They took advantage of their opportunity, a voluntary action.

Some have worked their butts off to achieve success despite poor beginnings. All of those(that are honest) will be the first to admit that several lucky breaks and their ability to impress important mentors had much more to do with their success than all of their hard work.

Again, a voluntary action, they could have not worked and lived in "poverty."

Some have slept their way to the top or shown a willingness to betray everything they have been taught to climb up the ladder of success regardless of the innocents they may trample.

I have never seen anyone forced to sleep their way to the top. Completely voluntary action.

Some have worked their butts off for years but lack the physical or mental abilities to earn more than minimum wage. Those are the hard workers that serve you faithfully at fast food establishments as you deny them a living wage. That's a sacrilege that should keep you awake at night as you look forward to the dollar menu to serve you a hurried breakfast or lunch the next day.

Minimum wage earners do not live in "poverty." The next time you are in a fast food place, look and see how many of these downtrodden have a cell phone attached to their hip. It is not how much we make, it is what we choose to do with it that often determines our economic situation. Unless you want to dictate how the "poor" spend their money, then their situation again remains voluntary if they prefer to pay their cell phone bill instead of taking advantage of Pell grants for college tuition.

Some have worked their fingers to the bone devoting their best years and loyalty to greedy corporations that propose massive lay-offs or mass firings to deprive them of hard-earned retirement benefits and their very livelihood. They are left in the cold as the CEO is awarded a $50 million dollar annual bonus for his efforts.

Then you look for another opportunity. To just sit and complain about it is once again, voluntary. Life is full of setbacks and there are no guarantees. Liberals seem to want to not only guarantee equal opportunities, but also equal results. That is impossible.

Some have worked hard and responsibly for decades to provide for their families and retirement to have serious health problems or a devastating accident result in denial of promised benefits by the insurance company despite paying expensive premiums for all of those years.

Then you hire a lawyer, or contact your states insurance oversight board. Both voluntary actions.

Some are young families filled with promise and dreams to later have a deadbeat spouse abandon the family and leave the remaining spouse with no means to support hungry children.

Any spouse that does not take steps to ensure they can take care of themselves and their children in the event of a spouse leaving, or dying, does so voluntarily. Dramatics aside, people leave and people die. Not preparing for such an eventuality is voluntary.

Yes, there are those that scam the system because they are lazy bums with no drive to ever succeed beyond what they can get for nothing.

They do so voluntarily.

Do you honestly believe that all of the unfortunate belong in the last category? Can you honestly look at all of the above categories and choose the one that best fits you? There is no need to admit that truth to anyone except yourself. Once you have honestly accepted the truth about yourself, can you continue to spout such nonsense? If so, your lies harm you more than anyone else.

There are those who are helpless, and they should be helped, but they are much, much fewer in number than the clueless. The problem is that liberals cannot distinguish between the two. When I was in school, there were always those who chose to skip or were disruptive to the point of being asked to leave the classroom. THOSE are the vast majority of your minimum wage earners today. The choices they made early in their lives dictated where they ended up. Yet no one forced them to avoid the opportunities they were given by society, they did so voluntarily.

So yes, poverty in the US, unless one is physically handicapped, is voluntary. There is no reason on earth that a healthy individual in the US cannot live above the "poverty line" unless they voluntarily choose not to.

Total Ignant Piece if works.

Like I said..There are VETS as well...............

I Guess the Passionate Conservative lie ...

Won't be Uttered This Round of lies....!

I am a Vet. Served 20 years in the USAF and have the blue ID card and the DD214 to prove it. I own my own business and work for myself. My home is paid for, as is my car, and I have no debt

So what?

Also, what does this drivel even mean? Are you incapable of communicating in complete sentences?

Right. Another liar hiding behind BS on the internet, and then using the "I'm a Vet" trump card to try and suggest he's superior to everyone else, and anyone here needs to kiss his butt.

<yawn>

Whatever...

Right. Another liar hiding behind BS on the internet, and then using the "I'm a Vet" trump card to try and suggest he's superior to everyone else, and anyone here needs to kiss his butt.

Whatever is right. As an individual, I have made decisions that have worked out for me. You may want to cry a river for those who VOLUNTARILY chose not to, but not me. I am not "superior" to anyone, nor is anyone "superior" to me.

Those living in "poverty" in this country should see the beggars in the middle east, or the double and triple amputees that lie in the gutters of Africa with their hands out, looking for someone to hand them something to eat that will satiate their hunger and alleviate their extended bellies. I have seen these things with my own eyes, but never here in the US, always in other countries.

No, we do not have true "poverty" in this country, what we have are a bunch of whiners that would rather have someone else pay for their food and shelter than do for themselves.

Ah yes, another patriotic American -- who claims to Love America, but who clearly Hates Americans. The perfect Republican: I've got Mine! FU** YOU!!

Nothing but a goddam lowlife fraud. 100%

i agree really

i mean poverty in this country is being forced to drive a 10 year old car or only owning 1 flat panel tv and game system.

poverty in most countries they live on the street with no clothes and no clean water, no medical attention. no school, nothing. thats poverty. what we have here is a lower standard of lving

i agree really

i mean poverty in this country is being forced to drive a 10 year old car or only owning 1 flat panel tv and game system.

poverty in most countries they live on the street with no clothes and no clean water, no medical attention. no school, nothing. thats poverty. what we have here is a lower standard of lving

Exactly! We don't have true poverty in this country.

Look at this link, then look at the picture of the "poor" woman who is complaining because she cannot get assistance paying her electric bill. Notice what is in the background? A HUGE flat screen TV, an X-box 360 AND a Nintendo Wii. THIS is the legacy of handouts. A society that believes it is "entitled" and screams POVERTY when it is denied. Thank you liberals, you have created the perfect monster and your "superiority" claims just ring hollow.

http://www.macon.com/2010/12/16/1379464/funding-cuts-leave-many-without.html

Ah yes, another patriotic American -- who claims to Love America, but who clearly Hates Americans. The perfect Republican: I've got Mine! FU** YOU!!

Nothing but a goddam lowlife fraud. 100%

Ah yes, another liberal moron who believes that he knows better than others that which is best for them.

Your ilk has created the "entitlement" class in this country, then you complain about someone who sees the truth for what it is.

Liberal policies have turned men into monkeys, men who once took responsibility and care of their families were replaced by government agencies that hand out "aid" without regard for where it goes. Like zoo animals, they wait each month for the food stamps or the welfare check. No drive, no ambition, just waiting to get "paid."

"Give a man a fish and he eats today, teach him to fish and he eats forever."

Liberals would rather give the fish away because it keeps people dependent. People that are independent are the only truly free people.

So Mr. Bernitch, yeah, I got mine. I worked for it and I took responsibility for myself and my family. I am FREE. Free to do as I please and free to live on MY terms.

Your whining just reinforces one thing in my mind. I DON'T OWE YOU OR ANYONE ELSE ANYTHING! NOR DO I FEEL GUILTY FOR WHAT I HAVE ACCOMPLISHED AND BUILT FOR MY FAMILY.

So while you complain that I don't care about what others have or don't have, just remember the story of the ant and the grasshopper. Sadly there are more grasshoppers than ants these days.

"The Inside Job" is an award winning 2010 documentary on the recession. I would highly recommend everyone see it. I don't know anyone that has seen it that has come away from it seething mad at Wall Street.

And we need to be very angry at Wall Street for what they did. They scammed the global economy out of $20 trillion, yet in America we have NOT sent anyone to prison like the Swiss are doing in this news story. In fact, most of the white collar criminals directly responsible for the white collar crime wave we are calling a recession are still there on Wall Street ready to do it all over again with the next scam. And now we have fewer Wall Street giants to monopolize most of the investment in this country.

Including Frank and Dodd, why do they still have their jobs? Nothing wrong with Fannie and Freddie.

sygh #2.2,

"Nothing wrong with Fannie and Freddie."

Sarcasm, I hope !

Sygh: Two things to mention to you. One, Frank and Dodd are elected officials, not like this douche bag, who was hired and trained by UBS. Second, whatever Frank and Dodd did with Fannie and Freddie was also consented by another 98 senators and 435 representatives. Don't be that naive as to think that only them were responsible for it. Or you think that two guys alone can control congress???

justiceforall, the chairman of particular committees in the US Senate and House hold far more power than those who merely serve on the committees, and substantially more power than those who do not serve on a committee. They alone hold sway over which bills are brought out of committee to the floor. If a chairman, or a house or senate leader didn't hold such power there would not be such competition for the slots (it really isn't about ego, its about power). Guess you didn't have a mock Congress in your high school civics class?

Guess you didn't have it. When the law goes to the floor it is reviewed and discussed by the Senate, it is not passed blindly. In order to become law and sent to the POTUS for its enactment, the Senate has to vote on it, whether by simple majority or by 2/3 of the upper house, depending on the requirements. I guess the mock class you had really stank.

The trick is getting the bill (it isn't a law until enacted by signature of the POTUS) out of committee and to the floor to be voted on. Try checking out how few bills actually make it out of committee to be considered. There were attempts to place safeguards on Fanny and Freddie that were blocked in committee by Barney. Yeah, one of our mock classes stank.

Your comment is sad. Go find somewhere to spew your politics... this story isn't related to liberalism friend. Sorry you don't enjoy the freedom that your countrymen and women allow you by engaging in battle.

12B? Where did you get THAT number... Dumbya invading Iraq has cost this country TRILLIONS. And the GOP isn't finished!

Freedom4Everyone

I agree.

What's not blatantly obvious about what they were doing? Predatory lending to $crew customers, bundle up the loans, rating agencies lie their butts off to over rate the bundles, $crew customers again with over rated toxic loans, hide bank liabilities in those bundles to cook the books and lie to regulators and shareholders.

Angelo Mozilo, the CEO of Countrywide, was charged with predatory lending in eleven states. He just got an out of court settlement/SEC fine of $63 million. He's still rich. Lloyd Blankfein, the CEO of Goldman Sachs, just got busted for derivatives fraud. GS had to pay an out of court settlement/SEC fine of $550 million, the largest fine in US history. Unbelievably, he didn't lose his job. He made $14 million last year plus huge bonuses and stock options. Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JP Morgan, make a total compensation last year of $27 million. He wasn't fired despite a $173 million out of court settlement/SEC fine.

The top 25 hedge fund managers in 2009 made an average of ONE BILLION DOLLARS EACH. They came close to that number again in 2010. They are among the worst of the worst speculators that collapsed the housing markets and involved in derivatives fraud. You can't be a top 25 hedge fund manager without constant insider trading, which is supposed to be illegal.

Nothing to see here, move along.

The problem is that politicians are tied to that deregulation. Look what happened the minute McCain-Ferguson was banned in 2010. Now not even the individual American vote has any value. It figures that the politicians with the closest ties to the banking industry would go to bat for their cronies. This is Pay-To-Play at its worst.

We have laws that have been repealed by a politicized Supreme Court whenever it suits the advantage of a specific party. We have laws that have no teeth because too many loopholes have been built into them. Why bother to make these laws then? If laws and regulations can be sidestepped, they are useless. Period.

the problem is this is not an american company and they was not operating in america. so no matter how you regulate it wouldnt affect this company unless you do it via armed troops. are you suggesting we invade the swiss now?

King Jester, I think you miss the point. Be it a Swiss bank or a U.S. bank, they're all doing business the same way and perpetrating the same schemes. It's more of the same crooked business we experienced in 2008.

so how is US law going to affect a differant country. unless you send troops in to a country you can not force them to accept anything. so you can create all the laws and rules you want, they will just laugh at you.

There are international banking laws.

And its a global economy, thats something a lot of people dont seem to understand. The NWO is already here. We are already connected at the hip to other countries. The IMF, ever heard of that? Thats just one aspect of what im talking about.

Also, governments can put pressure on other governments. Since banking and international investing is widespread now. Again, its now a global economy, and borders have never been more blurred. Atleast legally speaking anyway.

sorry but there are no international laws for anything, you have treaties and agreements but there is no international laws. you dont have an international governing body to create and inforce laws. that would be a new world order government that we dont have.

I'm not talking about the U.S. taking action against this Swiss bank. I'm talking about the U.S. (republicans in particular) recognizing the consequences of lax regulations and oversight. Really, I don't know why it's so hard to get that point across to some of you.

what does repubicans have to do with a swiss company?

Surely you jest, King.

Ha. Yeah.

Is it coincidence that the amount that's been "lost" is almost the same as the amount they're hoping to "save" by firing 3500 people?

The "culture of greed" essentially means everyone knows the white collar crime is going on but doesn't do anything if they think they can gain money from it. In short, NO ETHICS.

Alan Greenspan, Ben Bernanke and Hank Paulsen all knew about the derivatives fraud yet refused to intervene before we were confronting a possible global economy meltdown.

They obtained the emails of Goldman Sachs executives for their congressional hearing. Senator Carl Levin had Lloyd Blankfein, the CEO of Goldman Sachs, testifying for a congressional hearing and asked him about selling bundles of loans to people he knew were worthless. Blankfein flippantly asked him if he was talking about a hypothetical situation with a smirk on his face. Then Levin quoted the executives from the emails as bragging about selling "crap" derivatives to unsuspecting customers.

Blankfein still has that smirk on his face. He should be in prison.

Paul likely there are a few rouge traders that fool everyone, but more then likely most in our history the bank knew about. But they turns a blind eye or even support said traders as another gamble with peoples money. Seeing how desperate certain banks are to show massive profits again it wouldn't surprised me in the slightest if this guys was verbally supported by the bank ,but there no written support so the bank can label him a "rouge trader" if he fails and they can avoid liability

Maybe we should start calling bank robbers "rouge bank patrons." I mean if we're going to take a thief and criminal who stole billion and make him into a euphemism like "rouge trader" we might as well do the same for people who steal less. Of course I am one of those hideous mutants that believes that economic violence is on the same scale as actual violence.

Now that trading can be done via computers and not on the floor of a Stock Exchange, there's even more trouble ahead. Yet the stupids of Wall Street can't figure out why Americans have no faith or trust in them. Mental density is a qualification for any Wall Street trader apparently.

ewent,

Let's not forget high frequency trading, which occurs in thousandths of a second controlled completely by computer algorithm. And here I thought stocks were a bet on the future performance of a company, at least more than 1 second into the future!

pragmatic, and stocks used to be based on future performance but have since morphed into another gambling game like black jack or roulette. Wonder what would happen if laws were enacted requiring a minimum period one has to invest for? Such as you buy a stock you have to hold it for a minimum of a month? I refuse to invest (sold my stocks decades ago) because I don't like gambling.

Gas prices are high because Wall Street is speculating in oil. Before the tankers start to bring the oil to America, they are busy selling it back and forth between each other two or three dozen times. By the time it reaches the customers as gas, the price has DOUBLED. They are also speculating in food in the same manner - corn, rice, wheat, coffee, sugar, everything we depend upon daily. This, of course, causes nation wide inflation.

Want an instant bail out of Main Street that requires NO tax payer money? Ban speculation in oil and food. Prices would get cut in half over night. If taxpayers bailing out Wall Street is OK why not Wall Street bailing out taxpayers?

The $crewed the Pooch and Pooch has a right to bite back.

mountainmike,

Yes they are, you are right on the money!!!!! Shoes too. Big stores are tacking on extra as well. Its a real kick in the hind quarters to watch a pair of cheap working boots that were sitting on the shelf out there for purchase but not selling at $25, go up in price to $36.00 +. I guess were supposed to work barefooted.

sygh...Yesterday I was reading an article in my local paper about a 54 year old electrician who is out of work. An electrician? Well gee, maybe it these contractors weren't trying to earn a week's salary for an hour's worth of work, they'd have jobs out there.

The price of gold is also driven by these same speculators. Everybody wants a safe place for their money. Heavy investment in commodities are often a precursor to recession. Remember how high oil was just before the 2008 recession? It was over $4 a gallon. Then, when Obama took office, it was down to $2 a gallon. Mark my words, gold is going to drop precipitously. With it, the price of food and oil.

DANG! I thought it was just me going crazy at the grocery yesterday. I bought butter and eggs and had sticker shock from just a few weeks earlier!

Just remember that the national debt stood at $11.4 Trillion the day that GW left
office, which was almost double what the debt was when Bill Clinton left
office and America had both a balanced budget and a strong economy.

How long did it take to recover from the 1979-1983 Recession? Some places have
never recovered from that recession, and probably never will. Ronald Reagan was
President starting in January of 1981, so should he get the blame for that one, which led to unemployment as high as 25% regionally and millions of jobs lost forever?

The reason that gold and silver (and consumer prices) are so high and many retail prices are too is because our Dollar is falling against the Yen and the Chinese currency, which are seen as more stable. In fact, we are down about 1/3rd against the Yen just since late 2008, even though Japan is carrying a heavy debt load too. Now a weak Dollar would be good for companies seeking to export their US-made products, but my guess is that isn't what you wanted to hear.

There are a whole lot of older workers that have been let go from their jobs because of a fear of what their potential health care costs might do to group health
insurance premiums. The fact is that older people have greater health care
needs. Perhaps health care insurance needs to be made "no-fault" like
car insurance, or we really need single-payer insurance despite what the Republicans, Blue Dogs, and the American medical lobby are saying?

Since 70% of our economy is now consumer spending, if you want a recovery, then I suggest that you get out there and start spending, preferably by buying
American-made products. If we as a nation were serious about engineering a
recovery, we would institute some form of protectionism against unfair foreign
competition as well as against capital flight, and begin to produce what we
consume here at home once again. As I recall, the Democrats passed a bill to penalize capital flight and the practice of offshoring American jobs just a year ago, before the Republicans filibustered it in the Senate by a 41% majority!!!

Perhaps we need to force American companies doing business abroad to abide by our own worker health, safety, and environmental laws or lose access to our markets, which might be a great incentive to use American workers instead?

With the Republican Party in power, you can expect even more job losses to
offshoring. It is a stated goal of the Republican Party to break the power of
organized labor and to gut environmental protection legislation, and
essentially rewrite the last 75 years of history and return America to the
golden age of the robber baron, back when the 90% majority of Americans needed
labor unions in the first place to escape from abject poverty and highly abusive labor practices.

I suggest that anyone hoping for the kind of economic recovery that we have seen in the past following economic downturn needs to read author Richard Heinberg's new book "The End of Growth". If Heinberg is right, we may never see a full recovery no matter who is in power, as this planet is rapidly running out of the vital resources necessary to sustain economic growth at a rate necessary to create anywhere near full employment. Remember that world and US population growth is already expected to be in the range of 50% by the year 2050, just 38 years and 4 months from now. That means that our economy will have to grow by about 80% by then just to keep pace with where we are at now!!!

http://www.postcarbon.org/end-of-growth-chapters/

It takes a GDP growth rate of 2% just to employ our young people entering the
workforce, which means that this year, we are not going to be able to absorb
this year's graduating class, on top of the 2008 and 2009 classes either. Sorry, but "them's the breaks", as my dad used to say. In 2008, when GW was still in office, we had a substantial GDP contraction too.

From publicly available numbers that I have seen, the stimulus reduced our unemployment rate from a potential as high as 12-15%, and various bailouts also kept several million more workers in their jobs. The main thing that President Obama did wrong was to underestimate just how bad the economy could have been early in 2009, right after he took office. Of course, once economic data is gathered and the results are published into reports, hindsight is much easier than making predictions.

We have to remember that we are now battling the entire rest of the world in a
giant economic game of King of the Hill, and right now the Chinese and India are winning, thanks in part to all of the 5000 or so US companies that have moved operations and our jobs there. Did you know that China demands intellectual property rights if a company wants to locate a plant there?

Yes Mildred, every company of ours that has built a plant in China has had to surrender their intellectual property rights to do so. So what do the Chinese need us for, you ask???

The Chinese need a slave labor agricultural and raw materials colony much like the
US and Europe needed similar colonies a century ago to supply our own growing demand then too. Perhaps a quick study of the history of African or South American colonization might be in order, along with a study of the history of American coal mining, both from a century ago or so, which should give any half-serious student great insight into what our economic future stands to become a lot like if we don't quickly move to protect our own markets and workforce.

Welcome to the post-industrial era in America. Everyone who voted for the
Republicans in 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006, and again in 2010 richly deserves what is happening today. So get ready to work really really hard for far less than you are worth, if you get lucky and actually get a job, as you are now a pawn in a global economic game that is completely out of your control, for now to make China and a few wealthy Americans as rich as is possible at you and your family's expense!!!

Darn I wish that we had voted Democrat back in 2000, just think, we had a balanced budget, near full employment, and record economic growth back then!!! It is hard to believe that anyone thought that they could improve on that record by changing horses midstream back then!!!

Old Timer: Very well put. I agree 100%. We've gone downhill for the past 10-20 years and now everyone wants to blame our current president for problems that occurred WELL before he came into office. They expect him to "FIX" everything immediately, and it can't and won't be done! I doubt if even a Republican in office would have been able to do much about anything either. We're basically too broken to fix in a timely manner. People are going to have to get used to that. And, as I said, electing one of the wonky Republicans running (and I'm not being biased...I've voted for Republicans now and again), is only going to make things even worse! We need to let the current administration keep doing what they're doing (only doing it with a little more compromise). As you said, changing horses midstream is NOT the way to go.....it only causes MORE problems.

I just have one tiny correction to make old timer. We did vote in a democrat in 2000. Unfortunately, the final tally was hid in Florida long enough for Bush to be appointed president.

To blame only one party is naive. Both are in power for the sake of power and their own party. oldtimer, its interesting you refer to the recession of '79 to '83, which started after the second oil embargo during Jimmy Carter's reign and while he was prez (which he was until 1-81) yet you blame it on Ronald Reagan. One thing you said that I do agree with, the economy does not turn around quickly so whoever takes office benefits or is penalized for their first few years by the policies of the one in office before him. The dotcom bust of '00 was under Clinton's watch but you don't mention that, and the latest banking fiasco was based on his justice department forcing banks to make loans to those who were high risk.

Both parties got us into this mess, and in spite of those who profess we need experienced legislators I contend the only way to get us out of the mess is to shun career politicians who have never held a real job other than as a politician. Vote out all incumbents, whether they are your beloved Democrat or your idolized Republican and watch what happens. Of course this will never happen as those currently in power have convinced us its the other party's fault so their supporters are at fault. Ever hear of divide and conquer? We are more divided now than ever before and look how we've been conquered, all by our current politicians.

Both parties $uck but we can't have a third party such as the tea party (which was actually started by both disenfranchised Dems and Reps) because that threatens status quo, so the Dems successfully tied it to the Reps. Watch what happens when anyone else tries to start an option other than Dems or Reps, they too will be vilified as spawn of Satan. Definition of insanity, keep doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Keeping voting party lines, kids, its worked so well.

Yep, the illegitimate, illegal, occupant of the White House (2000-2008) was "appointed" by a Supreme Court Justice...wait for it...appointed by Bush Sr.! What a coincidence!

That dot com bubble bursting wasn't based on criminal or unethical activity. Willy-Nilly investing maybe, but nothing like what we saw banks doing that led up to the market crash in 2008. And tea-partiers tied themselves to the republicans. Name one who isn't further right than the republican base. There's also one party that promotes and fights for less regulation or no regulation at all. Even in the aftermath of 2008 it's an idea they still strongly fight for. Not saying I'm happy with the performance of Dems a lot of times either, but the scale of blame is definitely tipped to one side far more. Worst yet, the only thing they've learned is to bear down harder with truly destructive ideals.

And one last thing; the 2000 election has to be the biggest criminal and political scandal in all of American history, and I've never seen a republican own up to corruption that could happen on that scale. Dems can be jelly spined at times, but republicans seem to be in hopeless denial.

looks like people need to order new tin hats

braincandy, thank you for proving my point that some will blindly follow their beloved political party while fully blaming the opposing party, regardless of the actions of the politicians.

Frankly, there hasn't been enough of an economy in the US since the end of the Vietnam War to support both sides fairly, so whichever of the major political parties is in power, their base does better economically, while the base of the losing party suffers greatly. During Reagan's first term in office the sheer number of unemployed more than doubled in some areas of the country, while in other areas unemployment was reduced to record lows. The same thing happened in reverse when Bill Clinton was in office, and again in reverse when GW was in Washington too. I happen to have been born and raised in a major urban area that was economically devastated by the economic policies of Reagan, Bush Sr, and Bush Jr while the Clinton and Carter Presidencies were the best years of our lives. But I will admit that the unemployment rate in Riverside was almost 20% back when my part of the country was enjoying near full employment too.

I have asked this question before but I will ask it again: How long did you Republican supporters think that a major regional recession could keep growing out-of-control before it began to affect your neck of the woods too??? At Christmas of 2006, before the Democrats had even taken control of Congress, the unemployment rate in what had been America's 5th-largest urban area was over 20%, back when you southern Californians and Arizona/Nevada real estate developers were still making billions flipping houses and building entire subdivisions. By December of 2008, when GW was still President, the alleged unemployment rate in metro Detroit was 29.5%, and the U-6 rate was over 40%, neither of which can not possibly be blamed on President Obama.

Basically anyone who lost their shirts in a southwestern real estate market that suddenly collapsed starting in the Summer of 2008 has themselves to blame for not carefully considering why their neck of the woods seemed to be on fire economically while more than half of the nation burned instead.

Little theives usually have to use a weapon to get their heist to work and thats why they get the 5-10. Now these guys will rob you without a gun, sort of like how a casino works. I guess thats why they get the 5 yrs. in a resort prisons they have made for these people. I say they need to learn hard labor so they don't have time to think about their next scam when they get out and they hurt so bad they remember why they are in there for in the first place.

The top 25 hedge fund managers in America made an average of ONE BILLION DOLLARS EACH IN 2009. They came close to that mark again in 2010. Insider trading is supposed to be illegal, and the only way they can do that is with daily insider trading. They were among the worst of the worst white collar criminal speculators that collapsed the housing market and flim flam con artists for derivatives fraud.

Is that "success" or is that horrific white collar crime?

The trouble with that is we can't get a piece of that action, thats for the select few theives working together. Theres and honor amongsts theives and no one is going to say anything when they are getting a cut on that action. Sure would like to see the tables turn one day and the investors got everything that was coming to them and not the everything they have been getting til now, (ouch).

Actually, it was the attack of the "wonder bundles." Bundles of toxic loans were bundled together, over rated by rating agencies and sold world wide to $crew the global economy out of trillions of dollars. What's appalling is how many people knew about what was happening but said and did nothing about it because they were making huge amounts of money at first.

Mountainmike,

Boy you really are right on this morning!!!! Best posts. Right again, it's the wonder bundles, and have any of the regulations changed since 2008? NOPE! Hedge funds and derivatives are still legal trading venues. WHY?

The Glass-Steagall Act is looking better and better.

My guess is that people who play the markets never played musical chairs growing up.

And Goldman Sachs speculates on food staples such as rice, wheat and corn to make starvation relief more expensive and difficult. Who cares about dying children?

You tell it mountainmike!

I hope people are paying attention to what you are saying. What are we going to do about this? That's the real question. Further, I really want to know who benefited from this UBS debaucle. We KNOW there were benificials. I want to know the reasoning behind this act as well. There's someing very stinky going on in the banking world.

Before you condemn "speculation", remember that those same financial instruments and trades are used by farmers to lock-in specific prices for their crops and by food companies to lock-in their costs. On the fuel side, Southwest Airlines used "speculation" to lock-in its fuel costs for years in advance, helping it to survive the massive oil price increases. These kinds of trades wouldn't be possible if there wasn't someone willing to take the corresponding risk ("speculate") on the other side of the trade.

I would like to ban all speculation. If you make a purchase you take delivery of the purchase. I also would like to see a stop to all short trades. I also would like to see a 5 to 10 % tax put on all trades to pay down our national debt only.

Speculators add nothing of value they speculate. You should be buying stock to hold for the long term. Trading with the megafast computers adds nothing to the common stock traders. They get gyped. A tax on all trades applied to the national debt would slow down the trades and help us pay off our bills.

jeff how do you suggest we stop sspeculation trading?

Take oil for example. If you are buying 100,000 barrels for December delivery come December you take the 100,000 barrels. You are not allowed to back out you paid for it you get it.

ok jeff but how do you suggest make people do that?

I am suggesting some honesty in the way things are regulated. When the price of oil goes up ten dollars a barrel the price of gas immediately shoots up thirty cents per gallon. The gas is already in the tanks at the gas stations! When the price of a barrel of oil goes down ten dollars ...there is talk of gasoline coming down. Two months later it might go down a nickel. People need gas to go to work. It amazes me to see record profits at the oil companies every quarter. No, I don't have the money to invest in their stocks. I just have to pay, and pay, and pay.

ok, so lets say we outlaw all speculation trading. now you would also have to send troops to other countries to force them to stop also. so inorder to staop this problem we need to take over the world and force them to obey our demands. is this what you want? since thinks like oil is not only traded in america its also traded in london and asia markets

King ... thanks for some common sense. I'm amazed at the number of people who see a problem that's global in scope and think that we can fix it by passing a few laws in the US.

If you are buying 100,000 barrels for December delivery come December you take the 100,000 barrels. You are not allowed to back out you paid for it you get it.

I don't think you understand how futures work. If I buy 100K barrels for December delivery, I can't back out. I either have to take delivery, or find someone else willing to buy my position. Of course, I could just forfeit my money, but who is going to do that. Why, in this land of capitalism, should we allow products to be bought and sold, but not allow the trading of futures?

Barry...Why should you have the option of selling your position? You buy it you take delivery. Period. Greedy Bastard speculators.

why should he be forced to take delivery of something. once he buys it it is his to do with as he wishes. and if he buys december oil in october, he cant take delivery of it till december. but he sold it again in november. and its still not december

Speculators suck! They add nothing of ANY value. They are leeches.

Mad Mikey,

Please don't get offended but it isn't about Republicans or Democrats here; Money transends political party lines. Are you aware of the fact that the Clintons sold every last stock they owned just prior to the 2008 crash? The Clintons claimed it was because Hillary was running for the Presidency, and they didn't want to be accused of favorism. Come on, ya know? I have no problem with anyone being a democrat, or a republican but our allegiance to a political party shouldn't rule our lives. Blaming one party over another, it's just not that cut and dried.

Why would the US bail out a SWISS bank?

sygh, I also took and sold all my stocks right before the 2008 crash. It was the right thing to do at that time. The people that left their money in the market still haven't recovered and with another recession looming in the near future along with such a erratic market right now because of the tp's and the countries default ratings no recovery is in the near future for them. 401's suffered incredibley during that crash and the theiving. Theres not enough prisons for the white collar theives and the prisons are more like a vacation to these bums. Hard labor is the answer to these people, make them think about what they did and not how they are going to plan their recovery when they get out of the resort.

How does that relate to this news story?

Got a be a way to blame Obama?

The company went bankrupt through stiff competition from China. They are serious about winning the green jobs race. We aren't. There is no intense political bickering between two parties in China.

How does mad mikeys comment relate to this story?
Got to be a way to blame republicans?
Of course that's ok by you.

Incidently, the company was first promised the loan by the Bush Administration and followed up by the Obama Administration. Don't believe me, read the background on the project.

The bush admin decline d the loan because of the risk........Obama pushed it through because he was a big donor.

I wonder if their SEC, the financial watchdogs, were downloading porn like ours was when our crash occurred.......

The attack of the uninformed rogue bimbos? ( ^ :

I suppose that term works for me.

Do you know how hard it is to organize a community? @!$%#'s hard man!

And this has what to do with this article. Damn never fails A business is shown to once again @!$%# up and instead of going after them go after the political target of your choice.

jrsyjorg, it seems to me that you being so preoccupied with Obama when the article has nothing to do with polictics that just maybe theres more to you not liking Obama? Is it that you don't like Obama so much because deep inside you really do? I'm starting to wonder if theres not a deeper reason for you and others like you to dislike the president because deep down theres something that may have happened to you that you want to forget? I'm sure therapy has not worked for you and now you need to bust on Obama to make yourself feel better. Good luck to you and your ghosts that you have locked up.

jsryjorg,

what in the world are you smoking?

Nick Leeson is quite famous now. He does tours and speeches and even has a movie based on him. I imagine he is doing quite well for himself.

Anmd we wonder why some guy from the ghetto has no qualms about robing you, invading your house, robbing a bank and shooting folks.

He thinks...well folks think it is keen to steal and so...why not?