Jobs numbers just updated. 0, zip, nada, zilch. No jobs created. I guess it could have been worse and we could have lost jobs, but still not good. Does make you think that a double dip could be close at hand. QE3 really won't do that much to help because the euro is tanking as fast as the dollar and the yuan is pegged to the dollar - meaning we really don't gain an advantage by devaluing our dollars - we only hurt those who save because they earn less interest. Not a good outlook.

The Obama/Bernanke crime cabel has printed so much money already that food and energy prices have DOUBLED how can there be any recovery if nobody can afford to eat, get to work, heat their homes or run machinery?

________________________________________________________________

"Recession" is when your neighbor loses his job, "depression" when you lose your job, "recovery" when Obama loses his job.

There are some big adjustments that need to occur in the markets, and they will be painful. Politicians step in to stop the change because it will be a political liability for them - kicking the can down the road, if you will. The end result is that the bow wave of needed corrections grows and the pain will grow with it. Government should get out of the way and let the business cycle trim the dead wood and start growing where it makes financial sense.

Yes our savings are becoming worth less every day. Best to invest in another country where they see a return on investment.

Wall street should know. As soon as the the country got a little bump the oil speculators and oil companies sucked it right back out again.

Madison,

food prices have doubled because of the folly of using ethanol as a fuel source. Less corn in the market means higher prices for all food goods. Energy prices have increased because speculators are buying oil and gas futures because of the uncertainty in the markets. The only constant here is the people with money are making more.

warchief#1 what is the different between Oil Speculators an Federal, State, County's, City's, towns an School Estimating Taxes an Growth there just like the utility company want more money for less to keep all there investment holder happy .good day

Wall Street’s roller coaster ride.

If you are at least this tall you can ride.

Pay for your ticket upfront, ride at your own risk.

The reason the money keeps entering the market and coming back out is because too many gamblers were suckered into putting their money, and or their retirement money into risky business instead of holding their money in low risk T Bonds, CD’s and State Utilities. These gamblers did not set their retirement spending levels to reflect the realities of the money they would have after they retired, they got caught in a dream sold to them, now they panic at every downward movement or news announcement because they may have to live on their Social Security and small pensions and they did not prepare for this scenario back before the bust.

The only individual men or women who can call them investors, and not gamblers in the stock market are those who by inheritance or earning make so much money that if they hold their profits in savings a portion of their profits would be taxed from them.

They loose it unless the amount was reinvested. A good tax attorney would be able to give these individuals the approximate amount they need to invest, because they stand to loose the amount to the taxman if they don’t invest it somewhere.

From the amount that the tax attorney gives these wealthy individuals … as in the number that they should invest … 50% of this amount should be invested in lower risk investments such as T Bills, the next 25% should be placed in higher earning higher risk investments such as Hedge Funds, the remaining 25% should be placed in high risk, high yield investments such as a Gold Mine, or any number of gambles with high payoff.

Then re-invest the profits from these again, and take the losses off their taxes as well.

Most business owners would be better off putting 50 % of their profits back into their own business unless their business is faltering.

The point is, Wall Street is not a place for anyone except the wealthy, the idea that your money is not working for you if it’s not out on the Wall Street corner being gambled is the lie that will send many people who could live comfortably in their retirement into a complete struggle to survive instead.

This is because someone found their greed button and pushed them into risky business.

Wall Street just like the rest of America is going to have to learn to live inside its means as the gamblers continue to pull out what little money they have left to live on, which leaves only the investors.

The investors are still buying because they should be, they have the money to risk or loose to the taxman, and good deals pop up every time the markets dive downwards.

It's gotten to the point where Wall St. 'tumbles' if a newsdesk editor so much as farts. The media with their pandering ways are doing more damage to the consumers' confidence level in this country than anything else. This will likely be the first recession in the history of the nation caused by us talking ourselves into it. If the media ceased their doomsday babble for a few months (heaven forbid - that might cause a momentary downturn in profits!), we'd likely see a big jump in consumer spending and the first real steps out of this hole. Somebody gag these bastards already, please.

President Obama is flat out over his head. This is what you can get when you put a totally unproven commodity in the most important job on this planet.

This country has peaked. Keep those wars going Obama, that way unemployment won't get passed 10%. Loser.

Obama is over his head, but any president that inherited this mess would be. The wheels were already in motion. Some ppl say the Bush's and Obama's stimulus didn't help, but how do we know? Where would we have been compared to where we are now?

The wars definitely have to stop. It is not our job to 'police' the world! Pull the troops back from the wars and overseas bases and use them to protect our borders at home.

Keep your dollars safe. Debt is the problem. People borrowed and promised to pay back US dollars. Total debt is more than the US dollar supply. Many times over. There will be demand for US dollars. It is the pyramid with the eye. It is not so easy to get rid of it.

Let Me Explain,

The stock "market" is not and has NEVER been a place to "invest"! The suckers you speak of fell for that "investment" BS twice now.........once right before the great depression and the second time the great depression II which we are all living through. The "investment" con is what caused the first and the second great depression..........you might want to read up on the history of the great depression and you might want to read up on the history of wall street, I think you'll find the interesting point is: The stock market was created by "speculators" and the crashs were both caused by the "investors" who got sucked in to the markets by slick salesmanship.

Several things come to mind here. First, I was mildly dogged for insisting that gold was a wise investment, especially because after I invested in it, Glenn Beck started in on it. I got in at $400.00 and ounce and bought 12 ounces. Gold was up, according to the article, about $48.00 per ounce. So, all of you who gave me grief, blow me.

Learn to read a price chart, invest some money on books that teach technical analysis and you'll do fine. Stay away from day trading, forget wall street, and put your money in the things people use, like, well, food.

@michigan voter - how is it that the Tea Party is holding a gun to anyone's head to make them do anything? In reality, they are a minority in the House and haven't been around long enough for anybody to really take them seriously. The Republican's own the debt? No, the United States owe the debt. That means YOUR Senator(s) and Congressmen sent you up the river, not the Republicans. Are the Republican's or the marginalized Tea Party fighting the fight against spending beyond our means. Yeah, seems they are. I think Obama's "popularity" stats show that the majority of the country are just tired of throwing good money after bad, upholding the Constitution only when convenient (see Illegal Immigration Reform) and pandering to the Unions. When, in your opinion, is the right time to bring this subject up? I wish the House would be hammering this issue every day because unless you want to join the PIIGS countries this has got to stop.

So, your savings, via your company, are invested in the stock market? Do you have a choice? If you do, get out. As to the blame game, blame the government's internventionist policies, they intervene, create legislations that hinder (Community Reivestment Act) or they play favorites and obfuscate (Barney Franks and Raines) or repeal legislation that actually did some good (Glass-steagall)

Bush went before congress with concerns about the mortgage industry and Freddie/Fannie and Franks told him to butt out. Clinton allowed Glass-Steagall to die. Seems if you want to place blame only on Obama or Bush you'd better go back and do a little research.

Everything drops except oil prices. I have seen gas prices rise 20 cents a gallon in the past week. The oil company's and the speculators continue to screw the American public. People have no disposable income left to buy anything. And everybody wonders why.

Before the football game and at 4pm on the West Coast. Timing seems almost too good - couldn't go for another night? It'll be interesting to hear what he has to offer when no-one is listening to him.

The reason for no jobs is because companies are hiring overseas. There is growth in Brazil, China & Asia and that's where companies are going. We're not creating any new things here....the last new thing was the Ipad...tablet PC. So you cannot blame the President for companies and people not being innovative enough.

When Ph.d. students come to research univ's here in the states, they are the ones who are developing technology that eventually puts humans out of work....look at the auto industry that has robots working side by side with humans....
That's what's happening.
Plus there is no "Demand" see paragraph 1. What is out there that people are clamoring to buy? Not much.

Wrong Madison, these numbers are a direct reflection of the chaos caused by the idiots from the TP holding a gun to the head of the economy demanding that the debt be addressed before anything else. Even when the debt was not the biggest concern.

The Republicans and the TP fools own this increase in pessimism and reduction in demand. It was their actions that caused it. They chose the right fight at the VERY wrong time. The debt needed to be addressed but due to their lack of understanding and myopic theology, they did it at the wrong time in the worst possible way.

Sallys quote "When Ph.d. students come to research univ's here in the states, they are the ones who are developing technology that eventually puts humans out of work"

Nothing wrong with innovation Sally. What's wrong is that we educate these PHD students and then don't allow them to stay in America and become citizens. Good idea, send the best, brightest, and the highest earners back, while Jose or Juan who have no education are welcomed to stay. We either start keeping this planets talent, or we are going to regret it big time. America can not, nor has the will, nor the tenacity to provide the amount of talent needed in this new century of high tech jobs, and saying otherwise does not make it so.

MichiganVoter your quote "Wrong Madison, these numbers are a direct reflection of the chaos caused by the idiots from the TP holding a gun to the head of the economy demanding that the debt be addressed before anything else"

Fact check MV. The democrats had complete control of both houses with massive majorities from 1/07 to 1/11. They had a democratic President from 1/09 till now. So your TP junk is just that. Yeah, in last 8 months the whole world collapsed.

Sell stupid somewhere else, were already full up on here.

JCB, I don't believe MV is implying the TP started the problem. The problem is, where do we go from here? And the party of NO is lowering our confidence in the future as the political process is paralyzed.

Sally in Chicago:

What is out there that people are clamoring to buy? Not much.

Although they aren't "clamoring to buy", rather forced to buy, it is ENERGY in all of its forms! We are being RAPED by OPEC every day! Most OPEC oil is "south" of $25 per barrel!

Even though we don't buy all of our oil from OPEC, the world charges what OPEC charges!

We need to be ENERGY independent and stop burning our food for ENERGY! Those two things would put money in the pockets of everyone due to lower prices.

JCB,

Madison wrote, “What does everybody expect with Obama about to announce another spendathon before the football game?” The subject of the article is
the poor job growth in August. Maddison implies that the poor job growth is due to Obama and his plan or his speech. The poor job growth in August can very easily be attributed to the drop in consumer confidence due to the political hostage tactics of the TP over the debt ceiling.

Let me make it simple for you, 70% of the economy is consumer spending.

Low consumer confidence = low consumer spending

Low consumer spending = low demand

Low demand = businesses not selling products

Businesses not selling products = businesses laying off workers or not hiring more

Hopefully you can follow the way things work in the real world. Not the bizzaro world of supply siders.

Hugin: Sorry, this is Obama's economy. He even said so. He promised unemployment would not go above 8% if his stimulus package was passed which it was. Unemployment has been at or above 9% virtually every month for the last 3 years. Can't blame Republicans for that. He said if his ObamaCare was passed it will create significant jobs. It didn't. Can't blame Republicans for that. Last summer Obama, Biden, AND the Democrat "talking points" all said we were in the Summer of Recovery. We weren't. Can't blame Republicans for that.

Sorry, this economy is a DIRECT reflection on the failed policies of this president. Here we are three years AFTER Obama took office and in those three years he has lost millions of additional jobs, added $5TRILLION to the national debt in only 3 years (yes, Bush added $4TRILLION but that was over EIGHT years), unemployment rate from 7.6% when he took office to 9.1% THREE YEARS LATER, most people on Food Stamps in history, most number of people who have been out of work for 6 months or more, and I can go on on on. This failure is BECAUSE of his policies and to try and redirect blame just confirms a person's inability to have any idea how an economy really works.

Obama never said unemployment would be held to under 8%.
We're still in recovery from the recession started during Bush's presidency. Obama owns the recovery. He doesn't own the recession. Considering this recession was the worst since the great depression its recovery is highly unpredictable.

The decline began when the Democrats took over Congress after the 2006 elections, and Bush did little to try and stop it. Confidence is big part of recovery. There is no confidence in Obama's leadership. He has proven to be an empty suit. He did nothing during the two years the Democrats had full control of the House and Senate.

It appears Mitch McConnell has kept his promise of the Republican party's priority being to ensuring "...this President fails..." and "...is a one-term President..." To bad he didn't warn the rest of us how hard it would make our lives, but I guess it should be obvious that such an effor, to cause the faailure of the President of the United States, would be ruinous to the country, and obviously the economy os well. Treasonous by any measure.

Chicago: You are wrong. Obama said we MUST pass the stimulus and if we do it will keep unemployment below 8%. If we don't it will go over 8%. It was passed at we are at 9.1% unemployment three years later. That is not George Bush's fault. That is not an earthquake's fault. No, it wasn't Bigfoot or even the Loch Ness Monster. This is Obama's economy and his policies have failed. He wants to say Republicans "drove our economy in the ditch". If that is the case then he towed the economy out of the ditch and towed it into the lake.

you want to blame the GOP/TP but its President Obama an his Adim. trying to ship Gibson Guitar to Madagascar that 1200 jobs his Adim. is trying to send over seas that one company how many more jobs went over seas for the New World Order under President Obama cohorts of thieves.

Pro-business, that's a lie and you know it. Obama said if we didn't pass the stimulus unemployment WOULD go over 8%. It would have gone much higher without the stimulus. According to the economists, the real problem with the stimulus was that it wasn't big enough. There was no promise it wouldn't go over 8% just a warning that it would.

The rest of the problem with it was that Obama was even then trying to appease the moronic Republican supply-siders that think if rich people have more money the economy will get better. The stimulus would have done more if we hadn't put so much of the money into tax breaks for the ones who didn't need the money.

ObamaFOOL, (#4.3) saying that the decline began when the Democrats took over congress is just as ridiculous as saying that Obama was responsible for the hundreds of thousands of jobs that were being lost per month when he took office.

The stage was set and the events were in motion before the Democrats took a majority. They hardly did anything, and it wasn’t anything specifically that they did that all the sudden crashed the economy. Something like that takes time to really put into motion. What we are suffering is the effects of the policies since the Regan administration, made much worse by the foolishness of Bush Jr by giving tax breaks and increasing spending for his private wars.

Michigan voter: Are you serious? That is your defense? When someone says if I DON'T do this then something is going to happen most RATIONAL people take that as meaning if you DO something then the event will NOT happen. It is called "Logic" and anybody who understands "Logic" takes that as being the case.

If I told you if I don't change my oil in my truck I will burn up the engine a LOGICAL person takes that as meaning if I DO change my oil I will NOT burn my engine. That is called rational and intuitive logic and theory.

Obama said if he doesn't get the stimulus package passed unemployment will go above 8%. He got the stimulus package passed so any RATIONAL person takes that as meaning then it will NOT go above 8% unemployment. A latest poll states 80% (that's right - 80%!!!) of the population says Obama is damaging this economy. Are you REALLY going to be one of the remaining 20% that is going to defend this catastrophic president by saying "he never said he was going to keep unemployment under 8%"? Are you REALLY going to type that and use that as an explanation? I'm sorry but a person should be incredibly embarrassed to try and use that defense. If that is the only defense Obama is going to have going into the November election then he will lose by a landslide.

There is only ONE person in this country that is glad Obama is president and that is Jimmy Carter. Carter never thought in his lifetime there was going to be another president more incompetent than him. Well.....Enter Barack Hussein Obama and the answer is "yes" there IS someone more incompetent than Jimmy Carter that was elected president.

Pro - if you don't change your oil your engine will burn up, TRUE. If you do change your oil and the coolant leaks out, your engine STILL burns up. Was it the fault of the mechanic or random person that changed your oil? Maybe, probably not if he didn't touch ANYTHING else, or if your pump died for electrical reasons or something else.

I still fail to see why you'll jump down Jimmy Carter's throat but don't point out Nixon or GWB as a horrible president. We are still cleaning up GWB horrid wars and his recession (no MATTER how much you want the other side to have it).

Drive a car to the ground, give it to someone, have them replace all the parts that appear to be dead, does not mean that when more falls off despite the repairs is the new persons fault. Just messing things up and running out putting someone else in charge of clean up does not mean the entire mess is suddenly their fault.

ProBusiness, any RATIONAL person would know that the economy is not a tightly controlled process that can be easily predicted and adjusted. Look at the charts from when Obama took office. The economy was dropping like a rock. Any reasonable and rational person who can think in sentences longer than a bumper sticker would understand that it takes time to turn a huge ship like the economy and for all the tools and knowledge the exact turning point cannot be predicted with absolute accuracy.

I was specifically saying that there was no “promise” that the unemployment rate would most certainly not go above 8% unless we passed the stimulus.

I’d like you to actually show me a poll that show that 80% of the people think that Obama is “damaging” the economy. The polls ask if you approve or disapprove of the way Obama is handling the economy.
Some of the people polled hate Obama and would still say he was doing a
terrible job even if he pulled out his personal check book and paid off the
national debt. That group is going to say they don’t like the way he’s handling the economy. There are also plenty of people who think that he should be pushing for large infrastructure spending to help just start the economy, they are unhappy with him for different reasons. There are also plenty of ignorant people who think that Obama should have been able to just turn things around as soon as he got in office. Another ridiculous expectation.

Just as the poll of “do you think the country is headed in the right direction or wrong direction” is misleading because some of us think it’s wrong because we’re becoming too socialistic and some of us think we’re being pushed too far towards being a plutocracy. They both think we’re going in the wrong direction, but they want to see it go in opposite directions.

As for Obama being the worst President since Carter, well you’re entitled to your opinion, but I’m pretty sure a larger portion of the population is going to say the Bush has that title wrapped up hands down.

Bush made the mistake of 'doing something' when Clintons stock bubble burst. He created the housing bubble with Greenspan.

Obama is desparately trying to figure out how to blow another one.

alan.... If the stock market crashes you'll pay the price just like everyone else. Don't you know that your job, wether you work for a corp. or for your self depends on the investors in the stock mkt. This is the place where companies go to get the money to start or expand companies. If you want the unemployment rate to go to 25% just crash the stock market. If you would read a little history about the great depression you would already know this. When a company can't get financing they either go out of business or fire every nonessential employee. If you own a small business your customers most likely won't be able to buy your good and/ or services, so ultimately you will also be unemployed.

Don't worry. The governor of South Carolina is wanting to lower the min.wage.

coverwiz,

You got that right. Currently, I work at Walmart. My wage is a whopping $7.45,and part-time to boot. You know full well I have no health benefits. To top that off, Walmart has cut everyone's hours, even full-timers. Walmart, we all know it's the place everyone goes to cut costs. Now, if that's not bleeding America, what is? Most everything I put on the shelves is made in China. It looks like it too. Thin material. Crappy idol clothes for the kids with Disney characters all over the place. And most of it, as far as clothing goes, sits on the shelves. IMO, it's because if people are going to spend their money, they actually want something of quality for it, something that is going to last, has a guarantee of safety, etc... who wants to buy sparkle pants for their daughters that feel like Elmer's glue? Who wants to send their children off to school in thin tee-shirts, and skirts that a little thicker skirts but all made of tee-shirt material? Who wants to send their boys to school wearing a tee-shirt saying "I hate school", or "Millions of people don't like your face?"

Offer me allot of something I don't want to buy. This is ridiculous. Just that alone is like sabotage.

Walmart could be great, if they would only purchase more American goods.

Millions of people don't like my face?

:(

Not after the Supreme Court decision over class action lawsuits. I wouldn't shop at Walmart for anything anymore. I read an interesting article that listed reasons Walmart moved out of Germany. I can get along just fine without Walmart AND Wall St.

coverwiz- we are well on our way!

you may be onto something coverwiz ....You know the number 1 reason why companies don't hire direct and choose to outsource instead is because they save so much money in not having to pay the consultant benefits. I've contracted for roughly 5 years now and have survived without paid vacations, sick days, 401K plans, etc..... The main thing is I've been able to pay my mortgage and general living expenses, period. So I'm sure others can survive without these benefits as well.

Most professional investors agree that gold is currently overvalued. A large portion is shifting to oil and gas futures.

I would shift to oil and natural gas too. Can't eat gold, nor does it keep you warm on a cold winter night.

Unfortunately, our oil reserves keep going down, while demand keeps going up. I hate to be gloom and doom but we haven't built many new Nuclear reactors in the recent past either. Nuclear reactors are built to last 30 years, that's all. Natural gas may be cheap but making primary energy in the form of electricity is only 33% efficient. And when it comes to utilizing that 33% going out to the end-user, we don't do much better, .

Get this, we are 85% dependant on oil in this country, 40% of which comes from the volitile middle east. The EIA doesn't take that into consideration, when they push out their statistics, nor do they add the military costs of keeping open the flow. Most of our end use is taken up in heating/cooling and transportation. So, in these lean times, why aren't we building an infrastructure?

Please explain what this has to do with the failed policies of Obama.

The jobs that Perry created are either in government, or Micky D's

Charley: Obviously you have never actually run a business or even took a college economics course? I suggest you talk with business owners and simply ask them what the current business environment is. We have a president who has openly criticized business and his overt policy is to tell businesses that are successful he wants to punish them.

This is clear anti-business policies and why ANYBODY wonders why our economy is so bad right now has clearly never owned or ran a business and/or never took (and passed) a college economics course. I would suggest anybody who wonders why we are in this mess to take a college economics course and THEN will realize how much they really didn't know.

Charley,

Most business owner's primary objective is to make a profit. There really isn't the big conspiracy going on to keep the economy down just to ensure the president doesn't get re-elected. He is doing just fine all by himself in that endeavour. He doesn't need our help.

Evil: Exactly right. When Obama constantly says he is going to punish those that are successful and threatens to make businesses more difficult to succeed (i.e. more regulations, more taxes, require businesses cover medical coverage under ObamaCare, force businesses to spend more money on accountants and lawyers to find out what the new Dodd-Frank Financial Reform law will cost, etc.) then businesses decide NOT to expand or NOT to open or decide to simply relocate in another country. The anti-business policy of this administration has caused this mess. Almost three years into this administration and businesses did not add ONE net new job in August?!?! This is Obama's economy and his policies have failed.

Pro, companies have moved their operations overseas to reap a larger profit. And this has been going on for years, not just the last couple. NOTHING is going to force them to bring those jobs back here. Those jobs are gone. And you might check the taxes that some of those businesses are paying. The ones that are being targeted are the very ones that have HUGE tax breaks and have had them for years, and are afraid they will actually have to pay some tax out for a change. Thats why they are raising a stink about some of the policies. Have you ever run a business?

Buck: I am going out on a limb but I am going to make the logical assumption that you have never owned or ran a business. In fact I can say that with quite certainty because your comment confirms you have no idea how a business actually works and it is to late in the day to try and teach you. Have I ever ran a business? Yes, four of them. Currently I have my OWN firm and I offer business consultation to many businesses throughout the year. I have an MBA and also have a graduate degree in Economics. You want to debate bring it on. I am CERTAIN you have never run a business because no person who ever ran a business would make such irrational comments and arguments.

However, I will give you just a very short lesson and maybe, JUST MAYBE, you might actually grasp the concept of how a business and economy works. First, a business is started to make a profit. If the profit (i.e. "return") is not justified by the "risk" (i.e. how much they could possibly lose) then they won't open their new business or expand their current business. Secondly, if there IS a business they must now compete globally. The U.S. has the second HIGHEST marginal tax rate in the world (behind Japan and we see how well THAT is working for THEM!!). So to compete regulations and taxes in the U.S. have made it difficult to compete globally with other companies that have lower regulation costs and taxes. So the U.S. company must either find a way to cut their costs or they will fail since they can't compete. They are running as efficiently as possible so not much more savings there. So what do they do? They finally make the decision to relocate to a "business friendly" country where the regulation and taxes allow them to save some costs and can lower the price of their product or service to compete with the other global companies.

So your solution is (WAIT FOR IT!!!) to tell the remaining businesses in the U.S. they are making "too much profit" so must pay higher taxes. Oh, and by the way, with ObamaCare we are going to force you to pay for your employees health care. Oh, and by the way, new EPA regulations state your delivery trucks do not meet standards so we are going to force you to buy replacement trucks that are more efficient. Oh, and by the way, the gvmt has made the decision that those 100 watt light bulbs in your office are inefficient so starting in Jan 2012 we are going to force you to replace those with the new CFL bulbs that cost 10 times more. Oh, and by the way, the new Dodd-Frank financial reform law is going to force you to have more accountants and lawyers so your cost of business is going to skyrocket. Oh, and by the way, since we can't fix our economy and have all these people on unemployment your unemployment insurance is going to triple next year. Oh, and by the way, and so on and so on and so on.

So explain to me why ANY company would want to expand in the U.S.? And try to explain to me why the companies that have left the U.S. might want to return? The answer is THEY WON'T!! This administration has CAUSED this economic failure and every day more and more people are realizing this. Are you going to be the LAST person that finally wakes up and smells the coffee?

Condescending and shortsighted rant. Yeah, I own my own firm too. One big difference is that I'm successful enough to want to take care of my employees, though. I don't mind providing for them. Business such as yours that can only envision widening their margins on the backs of their employees or at the cost of destroying the environment aren't destined to survive in this economy anyway; that's the real reason for your panic. Better get some consultants in to assist with the management of your consulting firm! (4 companies... sink the first 3?)

Bucky Boy,

ProBusiness hit the nail right on the head. The only thing that I would add that you need to remember:

Companies don't pay taxes, wages, or fines.......... thier customers do.

I have run a business, my father was a general contractor. He has retired and we shut the business down. it was a small business and we made a small profit but treated our employees as good as we could. All of what you claim is half true. And as far as the bulbs go, that is something that is coming down the road for everyone not just a business. And actually that was a pretty lame example for a business cost. And I never said a business was making too much profit. Don't know where you got that from, but it seems you want to put words in my mouth so to speak. And you also make it sound as if these companies are just scraping by. Give me a break, again the companies that have moved overseas have done so not because of regulations, they have moved to escape the taxes, benefits and salaries that they would have to pay here. Maybe you need to research a little further. You really aren't as smart as you think you are.

Evil boy, If you can't respond without trying to be cute then don't respond!

Blah blah blah "evil rich" blah blah blah "corporate profits" blah blah blah "fair share" blah blah blah "Tea Party terrorists" blah blah blah "George Bush's fault" blah blah blah.

I also teach college Economics and what I STRESS to the class (and it would be a good idea if you thought about this too) that "economics is not the study of what people/businesses SHOULD do it is what they ACTUALLY do". In other words economics studies why events are occurring. We have businesses leaving this country in bunches. It does no good to "scold them" or tell them they are "unpatriotic". We have to look at WHY!! And we know why. Obama is creating an anti-business environment. So if you want companies to STAY or to COME BACK you must fix the cause.

Call the business owners "evil", "unpatriotic", "greedy", or whatever other adjective is your preference. That will not fix the problem. Businesses are leaving because they cannot be competitive in the global markets with the aggravations of extensive regulations and promises of increasing taxes on businesses.

Now you might think I am SUPPORTING them leaving for higher profits or lower taxes. I don't really care. If we could increase taxes significantly without significant economic consequences then I couldn't give a tiny rats behind what Obama does. But what I DO know is what it will take to attract businesses BACK to the U.S. or what it will take to incentivize businesses to take risks and open new businesses or increase hiring. If you don't WANT businesses to come back continue to increase regulations and continue to threaten increased taxes (Obama is doing a good job to date) but then don't wonder why in five years our federal economy matches the economy of somewhere like Michigan. You can't have it both ways.

If you want to punish success then you will drive that "success" overseas. If you want to REWARD success and grow the U.S. economy then you need to create a "pro-business" environment. To continue to push an anti-business environment then wonder why businesses are not hiring, opening, or returning to the U.S. is irrational.

Buck: I will give you a "real life" example. A firm hired me two years ago to analyze their business. They were starting to get some great business projects overseas (fyi, they were having to go overseas looking for more work because the U.S. economy is so bad they were, and still are, having trouble finding enough work in the states) and wondered how best to manage that business.

After spending a month analyzing their business, where their current and future business is coming from, and projected profit levels and came up with my conclusion. Do you know what that was? I suggested they create a company in Singapore where the corporate tax rate is a flat 17% versus the U.S. highest marginal tax rate of 35% (which Obama wants to raise to almost 40%). I helped them create a company in Singapore, all international business (which is about 75% of their business) went through the Singapore company and only money brought back to U.S. was the "charge" by the U.S. corporation for expenses (salaries, mortgage payments, etc.). End result? They paid NO CORPORATE TAXES in U.S. Perfectly legal because the only money brought in was for expenses. If Revenue minus Expenses is "zero" no taxes. They only had "profits" in Singapore so only had to pay taxes in Singapore. They saved over $1.5 MILLION!!

Now the sad part: From a "citizen" point of view I HATED coming up with that suggestion of creating a foreign company but I was being paid to look out for the best interest of the COMPANY!! Interestingly enough when I suggested it two years ago the owner did not want to do it either. However, when he realized that was the only way to stay competitive when bidding against other global companies he didn't have a choice. So that is why I say you can't determine what a company "should" do because if you push a business far enough and the "cost" (i.e. physical and aggravation costs) are less than the benefit a business will do it. Would he have created a Singapore company to save, say, $500,000. Probably not. Why go through all that aggravation to save $500.000. But when the savings is $1.5 MILLION then you push the business to make that decision.

End result is call the successful business owners "evil" if you want to but we NEED them in the U.S. to grow our economy and for that reason we should be finding ways to SAVE them money and if we do that more businesses will open and more businesses will move to the U.S. I would much rather have 25% tax on a lot of money than 40% of a much smaller amount.

WOW, first of all for someone that claims to teach "blah,blah blah". What kind of answer is that? And where did you get tea party terrorists, GW's fault, evil rich, unpatriotic or greedy at. I never said any of that. Again, companies have been moving overseas for YEARS. This isn't something that has happened overnight. The taxes that you say are threatening these companies are the taxes those companies have gotten breaks on for years and years. And I'm not talking small business and you know it. The fact that you say you don't really care says it all. You certainly make it sound as if you are supporting their leaving this country. Certainly sounds like your idea of a "pro business environment" is to let the company do whatever they want and pay as little as possible in wages and taxes. And I do hope you talk to your students on a less condescending level than you do on hear. Good luck with your endeavors.

It's called "Reality". If you want businesses to consider opening or expanding it has to make sense for them. If it doesn't they won't. All it takes is for someone to look around and see what is happening.

Reminds of a story: Barack Hussein Obama was driving through a small town and saw a little girl with a box of very young puppies and a sign that said "Democrat puppies - free to good home". Obama thought about it for a couple days and realized what a great photo op this would be (and of course yet another "speech"). So he tells the press to follow his limo back to this small town. He pulls up to the little girl, jumps out, and so excited about this opportunity but is stunned to see the sign has changed and now it says "Republican puppies - free to good home". Obama asks the little girl "I don't understand. Earlier this week it was "Democrat puppies" but now it says "Republican puppies"? The little girl says "yes, earlier this week they were Democrat puppies because their eyes were still closed. Now that their eyes have opened and can see everything they are now Republican puppies!!"

Maybe you should run in 2012 Pro...and solve our woes...sounds like you have it figured out.

Buck is spot on, the rest of you need to stop sliding up and down Sean Hannity's backside!

That kind of reporting is NOT news.

Relax mkbencic, what MSNBC does on TV is completely immaterial... because nobody watches them! If you check the night time ratings, everybody is watching FOX.

The government is sueing them, it takes time to litigate. HAHAHAHA!!!

Tomvet, In one sentence you say it's not the presidents job to create jobs, then in another sentence you seem to criticize him for not creating jobs. So which is it? You said it yourself. These companies are going overseas to reap bigger profits. They don't give a damn about who they hurt in the process. But in the end these companies are going to have to realize that if there's no work here, then how are people going to buy what they are exporting back here. Again, those companies have been building plants overseas for years, but NOW it's an issue. People should have spoke up years ago, but very few did. Now we have what we have, and people are starting to see what they should have seen a long time ago.

It doesn't matter when he speaks it's the same BS story.

Deflation cannot be avoided after credit inflation runs it's course. Debt based monetary system is a bankrupt scheme destined to fail. They have bailed out banks at tax payer expense. Government is still doing deficit spending at tax payer expense. 50 million jobs are supported by this deficit. It is going to be worse than Great Depression when spending spree ends. And why will it end? Because we are about to run out of credit worthy borrowers. Without ability to borrow, we won't be creating new money. Once the borrowing stops, we will find out that total debt (principal+interest) is going to be more than the entire money supply and it cannot be paid.

Stocks are still a bubble. We were oversold on the short term, but we are still at the top of the bear market rally that has popped in May. Back in March 2009, only 3% of traders were bullish, but it was the time to buy. Years later, going to the top we had 90%+ bulls. This is how the crowd gets it wrong at turning points. It can decline again. News and earnings do not drive stocks.

www.tradingstocks.net/html/latest_opinion.html

Yeah, We are just waiting for Obama To lose the election before we start looking for jobs. THERE ARE NO JOBS. They have been shipped all around the world and both parties are responsible. You think perry is going to save Us. Get a clue. None of them care about the American people anymore. It's all about greed and power.

Take it from some one who is unfortunately a registered rep...........I wouldn't vote for Perry if that goose laid a golden egg!

1. I DO NOT want to see another of the Bush family buddies in office.

2. I DO NOT want another president from Texas.

3. I DO NOT want another evangilical nutcase (like the last two presidents) in office.

4. I would however vote for Romney, at least he has real business world experience.