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May the good lord give him the strength to fight his illness.
I agree. I hope he will be able to fight this disease.
I agree. It's to bad he could not stop the greed sooner. You can't take it with can you. Enjoy Steve.
My grandmother and my aunt died of this disease. I know how it works. I pray he doesn't suffer - and he has slapped this back better than Patrick Swayze. My aunt literally worked the day she died, came home, and died in my brother's arms - but her job was far less stressful than Steve's. She also didn't have to worry about someone being able to fill his size 95600 shoes. Steve has fought long and hard. May he have some peace and relaxation, whatever that may be, before he "moves on".
I wish him all the best from this world and God. He is a visionary and truly is a good person. God Bless You Steve.
Steve Jobs should be commended for creating a company that employees so many people. He is a good man and may the grace of God be with him.
Apple is here to stay. Jobs did a phenomenal job in bringing the company to the top unlike MS Gates.
Apple is Hardware and Software and builds things people admire, love, and adore, not to mention using.
If it weren't for Apple Bill Gates would have zip.
Retire in peace Jobs. You are one awesome man with a brilliant head on your shoulders.
Apple is here to stay. Jobs did a phenomenal job in bringing the company to the top unlike MS Gates.
Ummm...Microsoft is the most venerable and profitable company in the computer industry, and by far exceeds Apple in profitability and market share.
If it weren't for Apple Bill Gates would have zip.
Actually, that would be the other way around. If it weren't for the sweetheart investment of $150,000,000.00 in Apple by Microsoft in 1997, Apple likely would not have continued forward. It was a bad investment anyway, where Steve Jobs promised to ship OSX with IE as the default browser, then nudged DoJ officials to seek an antitrust intervention keeping Apple from having to ship OSX with IE at all. Basically, Steve Jobs did what he always does...makes a sweetheart deal to get the investment he needs, then screws the investor out of everything he promised.
Retire in peace Jobs. You are one awesome man with a brilliant head on your shoulders.
He's just an ego-maniac with a God complex and a need for your constant adoration...even though anything he has ever attempted honestly (on his own) has failed miserably.
Ummm...Microsoft is the most venerable and profitable company in the computer industry, and by far exceeds Apple in profitability and market share.
LOL! Someone hasn't read the news in a while. Jun 2011:
Actually, that would be the other way around. If it weren't for the sweetheart investment of $150,000,000.00 in Apple by Microsoft in 1997, Apple likely would not have continued forward.
Actually, both you and Arieus are off target. Microsoft was just an OS developer while Apple did both hardware and software. Apple and Microsoft played off each other's tech for a long time "borrowing" tech, gadgets and code until they each took a major split. Microsoft became the business giant and Apple finally realized it's draw by common end users. They really needed each other all along.
He's just an ego-maniac with a God complex and a need for your constant adoration...even though anything he has ever attempted honestly (on his own) has failed miserably.
LOL. Strong words coming from someone I've never heard of. Whereas, I have heard of Jobs and I have enjoyed iPhone, iPod, Mac and Pixar movies. We all have our life long struggles and he may have had his bouts with pride. Death is the great equalizer - you cannot play god forever. Still, when you survey his life at the end I don't see a string of failures and sad stories. I see a legacy.
Actually, both you and Arieus are off target. Microsoft was just an OS developer while Apple did both hardware and software.
Actually JohnnyReb, I mentioned that in my post that Apple was both Hardware and software. This is why people love Apple Inc, aka Apple Computer.
Gates worked for Jobs, stole Jobs OS and created Dos and Windows from what Jobs started, actually, Jobs got it from Xerox (the GUI software) that Xerox had no clue to what program they had and sold it to Jobs real cheap, and Jobs went on from there with it.
As for Gates, he's just an OS developer that makes cheap imitation Mac OS X software from Apple's OS.
Gates always waits for
Apple to come out with something new, and then a year later, Gates comes out with something similar to it.
If Apple made OS X for all the pc manufacturers, Gates and his Windows would TANK in a years time.
you dont think jobs stole idea's?? the ipod was invent by an englishman.
you think job didnt steal??
i would do some reasearch before to think job is innocent.
OSX sucks, yeah it has nicer graphics, but in hardware problem its horrid, just wait til these mac book pro think books start breaking down.
SSD wont last forever, the battery wont last(a year at the most) just like PC, apple has it flaws.
Ipod's what the hell is a sad ipod on my ipod play!??! WTH!! could be anything!
Bah Apple Sucks plain and simple, sure its has some good products, but nothing original
Actually JohnnyReb, I mentioned that in my post that Apple was both Hardware and software. This is why people love Apple Inc, aka Apple Computer.
You did, except that's not the statement my response was directed at. It was directed at the idea that without Apple, Gates would have nothing. This is an inaccurate statement. And the rebuttal of Apple being nothing without Gates is just as flawed. They needed each other throughout the years and I think that fact that they have both survived proves this point. If they were arch-competitors then you would have seen one die out by now.
I enjoy watching people debate which is better, unaware of the fact that all tech companies take from each other. Just this week, a judge in the Netherlands declared that Samsung violated Apple patents with their devices. Truly ludicrous. If this was taken to its logical extreme, we would see only one manufacturer who used a mouse, one who used a touchpad, one who used a keyboard, etc...
Tech is a give and take relationship among all companies and that is well known. It only happens that someone cries foul when one does better than they are doing as is the case with Oracle suing Google over Android's use of Java.
Fact: No one tech company rose to power on their accomplishments alone. People who want to pit one against the other (as with Sloppyjoes' sloppy comment) just show their lack of tech knowledge. It's about personal preference and what you need the device to do for you. I switched from PC to Mac and from Android to iPhone and yet when people ask me to recommend a platform for them my first question is and always will be: what are you going to need it to do?
hey when apple stock beats out exxon mobile all you fanboys are delighted. glad that every american has an ipod even though we don't all have houses, health care, or jobs (not steve, i mean job as in employment). at least we can rock out for a while longer! yay!
I would have taken my $6.1 Billion and left long ago.
People with that kind of attitude would never earn any significant amount of money (let alone billions) in the first place. If you have a passion for something, you wouldn't want to leave, and that kind of attitude earns you the big bucks. Retirement is a dirty word to Jobs and many other successful people, but unfortunately, this appears not to be his choice.
People with that kind of attitude would never earn any significant amount of money (let alone billions) in the first place.
Your confusing passion with greed. Big surprise there.
I think Dr. Cat is right - it's passion, not greed that keeps most people like Jobs working. I know some people that made 10's of millions after growing their company for almost 20 years and they stayed long after the big payout when the company went public. All but 1 of them stayed to help the company continue to grow (the other 1 stayed for greed).
Not everyone is in it for the money...
I didn't buy my ipod and later on ipad because Mr. Jobs was the CEO. Hope he now can use the time to work on his health.
If Jobs had not been CEO, there wouldn't have been an ipod, or ipad, or iphone.
If Jobs hadn't gone back, Apple would no longer exist. He created the company, got pushed out, then he had to go back and save it from the corporate morons.
I am really pissed at the reporting of this article. MSNBC makes it sound like Jobs founded Apple all by himself. What about Steve Wozniack? My dad knew both of them and worked with Wozniack while they were HP. I have met both men and have been the "garage" where they made the Apple 1. I was 14 at the time and actually seeing this little tiny thing ( tiny by yesteryear's standards). Do what these behemoth computers, Wang tape thingys that read the magnetic tape at 75 inches per second. You had to load each program separately by either magnetic tape, boxes and boxes of punch cards or reels of punched paper tape.
I guess what I am saying that yes Steve Jobs founded Apple. He was NOT the sole founder. Woz left in 1986, took his money and ran. Jobs has the business visionary stuff to make Apple products desirable. Wozniack had the brains and programming skills, they complimented each others strengths. Without that combination Apple would not be around now.
So you idiots in the MSM need to get your facts straight....Oh wait a minute Journalism is not what we had in the'60's and 70's.
Greycloud,
You forgot that MSN could not do the math. Since Jobs is listed as having been born in '55, he is 56 years old, not 55. Typical sloppy editing.
I am sad for Steve Jobs. He is performing another service for humanity today, however. I am sure many, many people are contemplating the fact that billions of dollars cannot buy him happiness today. He has had good luck, talent, determination, and bad luck, too. I feel for him.
Steve Jobs is the visionary that drove Apple's product line. I do not think there is anyone in the company to take over that role. Apple will be OK in the short term, but the innovative products that made Apple what it is today may be gone for good.
I certainly hope that Jobs beats whatever illness has prompted his resignation and wish him all the best. He has been a major force in shaping the entire industry of consumer electronics and would be greatly missed.
And to Sherrie - It all depends on whether his birthday has passed this year or not, he could be 55 or 56 if he were born in 1955.
I am really pissed at the reporting of this article. MSNBC makes it sound like Jobs founded Apple all by himself. What about Steve Wozniack?
It's the American way. F@ck as many people as you can, as fast as you can.
I'm surprised you didn't know that.
I know Steve B Jobs built Apple all by his self, didn't you?
Oh and never mind that emergency liver transplant.
yeah that he stole from someone as well, dont forget he stolen the idea for the ipod too.
Nothing but a loser, Job not leaving the company his stench will still be there!
as chairman, same title as CEO. Pfft what a joke!
So you idiots in the MSM need to get your facts straight....
LOL. They did get their facts straight. I didn't read anywhere in the article that Jobs founded Apple Computers on his own. In fact,
Pushed out of the company he co-founded in the mid-1980s
Seems to me they did a great job at reporting the whole story. The story that is of Steve Jobs leaving the company permanently now. I could understand your ire if this was supposed to be a piece on the history of Apple Computers.
Then again, Jobs stayed the course and as you said in your own words:
Woz left in 1986, took his money and ran
To the victor belongs the spoils! So, I have no problem with Jobs being elevated above his partner who decided to cut out early.
Sad day.
Even an anti fan boy like me hates to see this. From the Apple II to Pixar, to the iphone, he made cool stuff, even if I couldn’t afford to buy most of it. He pushed all of his competitors to be better. I’m sure he picked a good successor, but you can’t replace a visionary.
Tim will do fine. Steve's legacy goes on.
The worst mistake for the board would be to change the CEO for an outsider. Apple management is unique and needs to be preserved.
Don't bet on it. Without Jobs, they will eventually become just another company run by accountants who worry about short term gains in the stock price. They'll cut corners and try to survive on marketing. Too bad.
Their computers are way, way overpriced, but the iphone was a game changer.
I have to disagree that their computers are "way overpriced". They are more expensive but they are priced in accordance with their level of design and precision in the same way a luxury car is more expensive than a standard car. Compare the finish, fit and design quality of any Apple product to a Dell, HP, or any other competitor and most people agree that their is no comparison. Excellent design products always cost more money. It's up to the purchaser to decide if the cost is worth it.
The reality is, Apple uses the same exact parts in their Macbook pro as any other PC maker. The RAM, processor, motherboard, graphics card, are all the same except Macbook specs are inferior to PC's when looking at the same price range.
It's like keeping everything the same on a Toyota Corolla, changing the exterior and adding a fancy logo and calling it a Lexus IS250 then selling it for 3X the price.
The only significant difference is iOS, but for me that doesn't justify the $800 apple tax.
Apple overcharges. You can't make it look pretty and then HUGELY overprice it! I have never bought an apple product and I won't until they create something that's actually worth buying.
You cannot be serious if you don't see the difference in design quality between a Mac and a standard PC. There is a very significant difference. Macs are engineered to much higher level of fit and precision; utilizes materials such as aluminum and real glass and utilizes innovations like unibody construction carved out of solid blocks of aluminum. Apple products are genuinely beautiful and have a better fit and finish than most other competitor products - hands down. It's amazing to me how people don't seem to notice this and rail about the price. The difference, simply put, is in better materials, better engineering, better design, and yes, better operating software. The software is subjective or course, but the hardware is clearly better built. If you don't see this then you're not really looking. And if those things aren't important to you and all you care about is a cheap price, then by all means you should buy the cheapest items available on the market with the understanding you will be replacing them on a more frequent schedule.
As always I call BS on that argument....the apple fan bois continue to throw out the same tired argument that has no basis in fact. My home built pc is still running strong after 6 years and still runs most of the software out there, and cost way less than any mac. It isn't the parts they put into the system, its the extreme markup on it. Sad that you guys pay that premium for normal parts.
I've built about 7 home made PCs total myself and there is certainly a big value in building one from scratch. Given the lower prices of computers and the higher performance these days I really don't think there is much advantage in doing that anymore. The main point I am arguing is similar to the absurdity of someone saying that a BMW is "overpriced" because I can buy a Ford or Chevy cheaper. Yes, you can. But there is a significant difference in quality and materials between the two. At least recognize that fact is all I am saying. I will concede on point, however, and that is Apple does charge too much for RAM. I will not try to defend that argument.
I'm a Mac and will never go back. I wish Steve Jobs well.
Unbelievable!
I'mbored:
Apple overcharges. You can't make it look pretty and then HUGELY overprice it! I have never bought an apple product and I won't until they create something that's actually worth buying.
You can buy whatever computer, phone or MP3 player you want for whatever reason you find, but get real! You may not think it but plenty of people do, Apple builds very good products... and they have the customer satisfaction reputation to back it up. They have been ranked number one four a long time now. Now matter how infatuated some may be with the Apple product line (fan boys) if you do not back up your high priced products with quality, customer satisfaction will suffer sooner or later. I owned plenty of windows machines before buying Apple and they never went very long without multiple things going bad! I have had the same Apple for 6 years now and nothing has ever failed.
Go buy whatever you want, matters not to me.
Having worked in product development as an R&D engineer, I can tell you right now there is nothing special about Apple's construction. No company ever would use tighter tolerances unless they have to. Going from 0.1'' tolerance to 0.01'' can easily make production costs go up 100X-1000X for that part. Also, nobody carves from solid aluminum blanks unless you're making 1-time prototypes. It is extremely wasteful and expensive. You make a cast as close as possible to the final and machine the rough edges.
There are many higher end PC models that much nicer looking aesthetically. I bet you are comparing your Macbook to a $300 netbook POS from walmart.
Apple customer service only lasts 3 months when you buy the product. Then you have to pay up for more. As opposed to other companies like Dell which give you 2 years free. I really hope it's better.
Aubs, not discounting your experiences as an engineer, the actual fact of the matter is that yes, each Macbook Pro is in fact made from a single block of aluminum. Watch this video which explains in detail the process.
I didn't realize how simple laptop cases are (just a block with holes in it.) I guess it is more cost effective milling the extrusion and punching holes rather than casting it beforehand to save a small amount of the material.
If it was more complex like car body frames or a metal chair this would be a no-no.
Always been a pc person, then we tried an iPOD. Then the iPhone. Absolutely brilliant. Then we got a MacBook pro (for work). Addicted. We had three pcs and a MacBook pro. Then we got an iMAC. Side by side, all the resistance loyalty to pc, programs only for pc, then the parallels came and every excuse to keep with pc just kept going out the window. The Macs were sooooooo incredibly more comfortable. Like tailored clothes vs. Machine standardized. Two iPADs later and the second iMAC with Lion just two weeks ago and all that's left is one work computer that has the drivers for the spectrophotometer on it. Never thought I'd be a junkie for apple. But the dude is right, the machines just FEEL better. Jobs is a true visionary. I wish him well.
oh sure its all nice and pretty, just wait til it fails on you, hard to replace parts, just wait. it will cost more to replace the parts than to buy another computers.
a solid piece of aluminum huh?? oh good i can recycle it after 4 months of working toss 2500 bucks down the tiolet.
SUCKERS!!!! they are reeling you in!! Apple lovers.
i guess there is a sucker born every minute.
What a bitter old coot you are. For your information, every Mac I've purchased (7 total including laptops) are all still working and going strong. The oldest one is more than 7 years old and not a single issue ever. Of course, there was the one time my Mom's iMac developed a flicker in the screen about 6 months beyond the warranty period. We contacted Apple and they replaced the entire computer with a newer model, larger screen and faster processor and no charge. They sent it via 2 day delivery and a prepaid return postage for us to send the old computer back. This is one of the reasons why Apple has such high ratings in customer service. Anything can break but will the manufacturer stand behind it? Apple stands 110% behind all of their products.
Used both Macs and PCs. Both have good things going for them and bad. It comes down to what you like and feel comfortable with. They are both good products but for what I personally need, a PC gets it done. A Mac would too, but the cost differential for both to perform the same functions leaves me with a PC. If I was doing high-end graphics design or other things that Mac is better at, I would use that. Just the way it is. Never had any problem with service for either when I had them.
There's a reason why Macs don't have as many problems: people don't make viruses for them. It's a simple fact, nobody wants to make a virus for mac. It takes the fun out of it when it's pure chaos of people trying to figure out what's wrong with their computer. Doesn't anybody remember that dilema a few months ago when Apple told customer service to NOT tell them how to fix it. The only reason why people glamour Macs as this super computer is because it doesn't have viruses, and it looks slightly nicer.
mac users make viruses for POC to make them look better!
Both apple and pC uses the same products.
Sheesh
people are blind sometimes.
Mac is better???? Thats a Laugh HAH!HAH!AH!HA!
A GREAT MAN ... A GREAT MIND. Apple will survive. Peace be with you Mr. Jobs. You revolutionized the computing industry.
It is a sad day. It makes me wonder how much longer Steve will be around. I suspect there must be something gravely wrong for him to make this move - I hope I'm wrong and I wish him all the best.
Apple will be OK for now but they must maintain their creative and innovative approach to the products that they design. Hopefully that approach is now engrained into their business model and not just a by product of one individuals push to think different.
ipods are the cheapest pieces of crap ever made..as well as his other stuff. i never got the apple hype.
ipods fall apart fast..u can get one a lot cheaper w/ better quality.
get a Creative Zen, better prices and quality.
I never got an iPod, but I did get an iPhone and iPad. Being someone with a PC background since the early 90s, and various other computers (Amiga, Apple II, TI-99 4a, and others before that) I was very impressed with both the iPhone and iPad. In fact I find the iPad a great platform for surfing the web, composing music, reading news, and so much more. $499 for the 16GB model is a bargain for the power that it has. Anyway, the writing is on the wall, and except for professional use, the PC market will continue to diminish as time goes by and as mobile devices like the iPhone and iPad take its place for many consumers.
Is there something in the American genome that fosters negativism, blaming, pontificating and being general all-around know-it-alls among the rest of us other purely stupid people?
Chairman of the board?? give me a break!! as if its make any difference if he steps down as CEO, same pay and benfits. WHAT A JOKE!
Like IBm they steal ideas from other people and dont give recourse to them.
like the guy who made the first IPOD. apple stole that IDEA.
APPLE is nothing but a thief.
As for stepping its not going to change anything. he'll still be there.
Useless and worthless, robbing people as always
Sloppyjoes:
Chairman of the board?? give me a break!! as if its make any difference if he steps down as CEO, same pay and benfits. WHAT A JOKE!
Like IBm they steal ideas from other people and dont give recourse to them.
like the guy who made the first IPOD. apple stole that IDEA.
APPLE is nothing but a thief.
As for stepping its not going to change anything. he'll still be there.
Useless and worthless, robbing people as always
Its basically his company! Like him or his company or not, he has the right to do whatever he wants. Apple would be gone if he hadn't come back! You don't have to like him or his company, but what he has created from a pure business stand point is nothing short of amazing. Second largest company in the world from almost not existing! He deserves anything he wants.
second largest company, from stealing idea's riiiiiiiiiiiight!!!!
I don't accuse Apple of stealing any of my ideas, he should have given me a few free computers, but me as well as many others sent in designs on what Apple people would like to have and Jobs brought them to life.
Apple Inc builds what the customers wants. When Jobs came back and created the translucent all-in-one iMac, people began asking Jobs at Apple to make them this way and that way.
Apple killed the floppy, and not long after that, all the other computer nmanufacturers did the same.
When Apple made the first teal, tangerine, strawberry, lime and grape translucent iMacs, it created a business for a lot of people that made translucent items from staplers to waste baskets.
Jobs had a vision and the the people could see it.
I adored the tangerine iMac over all the others, and I owned one as well, but Jobs catered to all peoples taste by making them in the most popular colors people voted for and wanted.
He brought Apple back from the grave when Apple was down to a dollar in the stock market and look at it now.
Way to go Jobs. You are a leader and a great and intelligent man.
Thank you for all the good you have done for all your Apple fans, but I still won't buy an iPhone until you make it so I can change my own battery myself.
umm wasnt his idea's, he just says that he likes it, so market it, its his production team who comes up with the idea, im sure after a year after he dies, the truth will leak itself out.
they have a trade secret clause when working at apple. so nobody will want to go againist that clause. its great working for a strong company.
to bad for them, they dont have me on the team. hahaha
i would have imploded the company.
Joe - you sound like a disgruntled ex-employee or somehow had a bad experience with Apple. Thing is - THERE ARE NO ORIGINAL IDEAS! Once you understand that, you realize that the those who succeed are the ones who are able to make things popular.
I saw the first touch pad computer over 10 years ago. Thing was really cool. Thing was, it never sold. But Apple figured it out. They didn't steal the idea on how to sell it.
Quick sucking on your sour grapes, Joe.
Joe, any validity of your comments is totally negated by their bitterness. Unless you can express your ideas as constructive additions (which does not mean mindless agreeing) to the conversation instead of purely bellyaching, then all you're doing is getting reactions such as "what /is/ this guy's problem??" instead of provoking any kind of thinking about what you're saying.
yeah stealing an idea and marketing is TWO different things i agree.
but did they pay the gentlemen who made the original ideas?!?! NO.
i hope you dont have an original idea and then someone comes around and markets it better than you, and not gives you a single dime.
Then you shall sing a different tune.
Both of you guys work for apple, stop praising a losing company
If Apple, a half TRILLION dollar company can't stay on top without Jobs they should all kill themselves. Jobs set up a nearly idiot proof company. Q Heist on Twitter, Youtube, Facebook, QHeist.com
There is no such thing as an idiot proof company. What an idiotic statement.
Everyone at Apple, including Steve and his family should read "Last Acts of Kindness"....www.lastactsofkindness.org
...consider how to send love and support to a man who has been a giant amongst us in his living, understanding that when a human dies, we are all the same, really.Human suffering is human suffering. Money and power can't prevent us from dying. Love and compassion can help the process however.
I realized Steve Job's genius the day I bought an iPod and learned to use it in 5 minutes. I'm typing this comment on a white computer that I purchased partly for its performance and partly for its beauty and minimalist style. It's easy to say this or that, but Steve Jobs is a genius and his performance not only as CEO but as designer and creator introduced to the world the hybridization of technology and art. Not bad. Not bad at all.
Although I am a PC fan, Steve has given great contributions to the computing industry. I hope that he can enjoy a long pain free life after the health issues he has faced in the recent past.
You can teach someone to do a job but you can't teach intuition, insight and creativity. That some people are born with and Jobs is one of the best. Apple may survive but will never be the same. Good luck to Steve in beating this illness.
Regardless of how Apple will do, and I am confident that due to its great products it will be just fine, I hope everyone will keep Steve Jobs in their prayers...his vision and courage have been extraordinary and I am saddened by his stepping down due to his health.
He is a callous person who would suck every drop of blood from you, just ask those died in the factory that makes the iPhone, because Apple is so demanding on price (just like Wal-mart) despite 50% margin, they would cut 3 penny out of a $600 item, so the contract companies are hard pressed to save another penny!
I can't help laughing at him!!!
BTW, he was an illicit child whose biological father was actually a diaperhead who sexed with a hooker to produce him!!!!
who cares he is a brilliant man, far more brilliant than you and your stupid comments.
Steve is a great man who was not greedy, he built a great company and great products and employed many people, also made a lot of people money.
He was smart innovative and has a passion for technology. Who cares where he came from.
he wasnt smart, he stoled idea from people, waited out the patent then stole them.
marketed better than the last guy who invented it, but didnt give him a penny.
you call that smart?? i called that a loser!
This:
BTW, he was an illicit child whose biological father was actually a diaperhead who sexed with a hooker to produce him!!!!
And this, from the same mouth:
He is a callous person who would suck every drop of blood from you, just ask those died in the factory that makes the iPhone,
Probably some of those factory workers were the offspring of hookers and diaperheads, too. Your comments suck almost as much as you do as a person.
Is this childish insultfest really necessary? You guys are making playground bullying look mature.
Smartest guy in the room. Makes Gates look like a Freshman. Good luck to him. I hope he's written down all of his ideas.
the ideas he stolen from others.
he just knows how to market it better.
he doesnt make the product himself.
Silicon Valley is rife with theft and patent infringement. It is crippling the industry. Every steals from everyone, and it really isn't a secret. Ever heard of a Patent Troll? They buy patents, and when someone makes something with that patent, they sue the company. Now that's crooked.
But I bet that's a business you could succeed at. Maybe...
why should i Steve job already master the technique.
plus stealing another person liver to save his, when he couldnt wait in line.
Greed?!?!? hmm maybe.
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don't care don't buy the overpriced products !!!