I meant to say real, meaningful and sustainable to the employee Jobs, not unemployment.

I hope the whole thing falls apart. Totally crashes!! Then, maybe, this government will learn to live within its means as most of us do. Cut out foreign aid, stop the supporting the illegals and stop stealing our social security!!!!

Corruption would have been my answer if that option had been available.

The truth here is that we are victims of our own greed.

People actually believe that they can by a book on "How to become a Millionaire in 10 days" and really do it.

Everyone is looking for the next quick scheme... The next trend so that they can jump on it and make it without putting in the necessary effort.

The Stock Market is a big example of that... It's a big HUGE Bull$h!... Theoretically it's where companies go to raise cash... In reality, the stock market is used for schemes and fraud... The market is SOOOOOO de-regulated that it's legal for someone to sell stocks they DO NOT OWN TO BEGIN WITH, knowing that the prices will go down so that they can buy them back from you with a profit.

THE CORRUPTION in politics is what allows this to keep going on... The only difference is that in the US, instead of a good, old fashioned "BRIBE", the corruption comes in terms of "CAMPAIGN DONATIONS" and "THIRD PARTY ADDS".

ANYWAY... I can keep going on and on about examples, but I'll leave you with a thought...

Why would a private company invest millions of dollars to elect someone???

Yea why does someone spend millions to get a job that pays thousands

"After nearly four years of unrelenting and largely negative economic news, it’s no surprise that Americans are feeling beaten down. The worrisome thing is that this very pessimism may be adding to the nation’s dour economic condition."

The author of this article obviously didn't get the memo on promoting the "Hope and Change" talking points. How's that 'change' to the 'New Normal' working for YOU?

And for those who like to try to blame the Debt downgrade on the Tea Party, perhaps you should consider a few facts;

1 - Standard & Poors said they needed a $4 Trillion cut in the Deficit over 10 years, but Obama wanted NO cuts - just a 'clean vote' on raising the Debt limit. The only reason there were any cuts at all is because the Republicans held his 'feet to the fire' to get the small cuts Obama finally agreed to. The downgrade was because the Democrats didn't cut ENOUGH from spending. Without bigger cuts in the Deficit, S & P warned they would downgrade our Debt, and they did.

2 - The 'Tea Party' Republicans voted for the Debt limit increase by about the same percentage as the Liberal Democrats - Why no criticism of the Liberals?

As long as Obama is president, this nation will continue to fail.

While I think he could have done better -- this did not start with him -- and he can't end it by himself.

You're right, Beth.

It started with the Democratic controlled Congress six years ago.

TiagoBr "Everyone is looking for the next quick scheme... The next trend so that they can jump on it and make it without putting in the necessary effort."

Ponzi schemes seem to work pretty well - Just look at the government, which has been running the biggest one in history for the last 50 years (Social Security 'Trust Fund', and other Trust Funds). Just look at the following link, which shows that the Government has taken $4.67 Trillion (as of 8/05/2011) from taxpayer 'Trust Funds' and spent them, giving IOUs in return. Just look at the link below under 'Intragovernmental Holdings' to verify;

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

The government likes to say "It's just money we owe ourselves", but the reality is that it's money that the Federal government owes to taxpayers, just like any other Debt. The government also likes to 'exclude' that Debt from its Debt Ratio (Debt as a % of GDP) to make it look lower than it is, but the reality is that Debt will increase from an average of 62% of GDP under Bush to more than 100% of GDP by the end of this year. Greece has a debt crisis because it's Debt Ratio got to 110% of GDP.

Beth I agree he did not start this but he has made it dramatically worse his policies don't work and actually have worsened the econonmy. He cannot or will not do the necessary things due to his idealogy. I wanted him to succeed when he first took over as he was my President and this is my country. But he has shown no ability to lead, understand or command (except taking out Osama).

This could have been avoided had Boehner accepted the 4 trillion dollar deal put out there by Obama. Boehner could get the Tea Party to agree to raising revenues (which would clearly help).

The refusal of the Tea Party to compromise led to this whole debacle. Americans know whose at fault, and the Tea Party will pay a price in the 2012 elections.

Wait for the "super congress" to meet on further proposals to cut the debt. I"ll bet the Republicans and Tea Party will stall and obstruct the negotiations to keep the economy in turmoil until the 2012 elections.

The Republicans game plan has been for Obama to fail, not the betterment of the country.

Obamanation-1101629 " You're right, Beth....It started with the Democratic controlled Congress six years ago."

That's not fair - Its only been 5 years since the Democrats took over Congress, and the legislative/spending agenda.

Eric-913730 "This could have been avoided had Boehner accepted the 4 trillion dollar deal put out there by Obama."

There was no $4 Trillion 'deal' - it was all smoke and mirrors and 'rhetoric'. Show me a single detail in writing offered by Obama during the 'negotiations'.

Obama just wanted tax increases NOW in return for vague 'promises' of cuts 5 - 10 years from now, knowing that Congress could ignore those 'promises' when they pass a new Budget each year - except for the last 3 years (2009 - 2011), where Harry Reid never seems to get around to it in the Democratic Senate - even with Democrats controlling EVERYTHING.

The Deficits under Bush averaged $251 Billion for 8 years under Bush (2001 - 2008), but have averaged $1,450 Billion under Obama (2009 - 2011p). That's the REAL reason for the Debt crisis. Here's the link to Obama's 2012 White House Budget Historicals to verify;

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals See Table 1.1

Beth, you are correct. Our fiscal and economic problems began as far back as the Nixon era when deficit spending was lauded as a wise economic strategy because it was a small percentage of our GDP and it freed or made money available to achieve national objectives. The problem worsened in the Reagan era when trickle down economic, deficits, and borrowing skyrocketed; and the same happened during the Bush II days. Let's not forget that the national debt was raised 18 times when Reagan was in office and 7 times when Bush II was in office; and it is also worth remembering that the latest economic slowdown began in late 2006. The only significant addition to the debt that can be blamed on President Obama is the stimulus package, which along with Bush's TARP and infusions of cash by the Fed prevented a second Great Depression.

to get private industry to create jobs in America you have to make it more profitable to hire Americans then foreigners.tariffs are the only answer.this free trade/job exporting crap was started by big business to circumvent our labor protection laws and organized labor.big business doesn't want to part with a fair share of the profits to labor.its much cheaper to bribe our government then pay a living wage here.that's why we have free trade/job exporting.that's why we have a high unemployment rate.all the developed countries that adhere to free trade/job exporting have high unemployment rates.England's young are rioting because of it.don't think it cant happen here our young are seething at the old rich making their lives crappy.were one spark away from watching our cities burn too

tariffs means jobs for Americans

free trade/job exporting means jobs for china

@ Dominick.

during your analogy, how often did the Democrats control Congress, taxation legislation, spending and the debt ceiling. As you witnesses last week, the President cannot raise it, Congress does.

Senate since 1955. Republican Majority: 16 Years. Democrat Majority 38 years.

House since 1955. Republican Majority 12 Years. Democrat Majority: 44 years.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774721.html

So ask yourself, where should the blame go. To the person that signs the bills, or the people that write them?

JohnQ is dead on, (with the exception of the anti corporation rant). Corporations are in business to make money. Free trade allows companies to make more money by producing goods overseas.

Fair Trade via Tariffs will make it more attractive to product goods in this country.

Look at your history. The 'bubble' era started a couple of years after Clinton signed NAFTA with a Rep. congress starting the "sucking sound" that Perot warned us about.

And here we are today. Welcome to the new economy. We are not going into recession, this is the economy. So long as there the jobs are being created in China and elsewhere, there will not be a longstanding recovery.

Roy, Republicans had it all between 2000 and 2006 and spent us into oblivion. Bush had veto power from 2006 to 2008, so blaming the democrats is just saying that Bush was impotent. I remember Dick Cheney parading around saying "deficits don't matter". Well Roy, do you think they matter now?

You don't just make cuts when you can't pay your bills, you get a second job to raise your revenues.

Republicans have block, stalled, and obstructed everything Obama has tried to do since he came to office, and despite that the stimulus led to growth every quarter in the gdp since Obama was elected.

The economy started tanking when the Republicans took over the house. In truth, we've been following their policies. Tax cuts and spending cuts, which lead to lower revenues and less spending which we all know now will stall the economy like a cheap Ford Pinto.

Roy, you can keep saying there was no 4 trillion dollar deal, but the press spent a lot of time on it, Americans heard about it. Just because it wasn't on paper (because the final deal wasn't either) doesn't mean it wasn't on the table.

John, our unemployment problems began in the 1970s when our corporations moved most of the garment industry to Mexico where they opened "maquiladoras". The problem worsened shortly after Nixon re-established relations with China and our corporate heads saw an opportunity to take advantage of favorable labor conditions to maximize profits. Low wages, government-provided healthcare, non-existent safety and environmental regulations and a workforce willing to do whatever we asked them to do proved irresistible to our corporate heads. Add to that the possibility of expanding in a huge market and their decision was not surprising. Today, our corporations are making record profits, to a large extent because of the sales and profits they are making overseas, and companies are exceeding shareholder expectations. The big losers are the American workers.

The jobs that have been moved overseas are not coming back, but we could and should put legislation in place to reward companies that invest and create jobs in the USA and we could penalize those that continue to outsource jobs abroad. Bear in mind that most of "our" corporations are actually multi-nationals owned by foreign and domestic investors who are only loyal to themselves.

A short-term solution would be for the Federal government to invest in infrastructure, modernization, R&D, alternative energies, and a massive re-training program to ensure our unemployed qualify for the jobs created by the government and private industry. Government projects are not a replacement for a robust and prosperous private sector, but at the moment our economy needs a shot in the arm and since the private sector is not hiring at a rapid pace the only alternative left is the government and private entrepreneurship.

Hi tariffs would be a good idea if we manufactured the goods we consume, but since we don't the only ones that would be affected by high tariffs are American consumers.

Bear in mind that I would love to buy Made in the USA, but that is becoming a daunting task.

Dominick-2063552 "Our fiscal and economic problems began as far back as the Nixon era when deficit spending was lauded as a wise economic strategy ........ Let's not forget that the national debt was raised 18 times when Reagan was in office and 7 times when Bush II was in office"

That policy (Deficit spending) actually started under FDR in 1933, and the National Debt (Deficit spending) has increased every year since 1950 under Truman.

The total increase in the National Debt under Reagan was $1.694 Trillion, so the average requested increase was only $94 Billion each for Reagan.

The total increase under Bush was $4.351 Trillion over 8 years, so his average requested increase was $622 Billion.

The total increase in the Debt under Obama is projected to be $5.119 Trillion (in only 3 years). I think there's a huge difference in scale, since Obama's increase of $2.4 Trillion is 25 times larger than Reagan's average increase, and about 4 times as large as Bush' average increase.

dominick let me give you an example.suppose we put a 75 dollar tariff on bikes imported.american millionaire bill sees the tariff and the price of bikes made in china is now 150.he knows he can make bikes in kentucky for 125 and still make a decent profit so he invests money here hires americans,gets phone service,uniforms for his employees,pays taxes,buys the paint and steel here,insurance,electricity etc.when you manufacture money flows in lots of different directions and provides for alot more jobs the just the employees he hires.thats why it is so necessary to end free trade/job exporting

This string proves the point... you partisan people are as much a part of partisan problem as the partisan politicians. You "feed" their partisanship, you validate it. "It's the Democrats fault!" "It's the Republicans fault!" You're both right. As long as a die-hard, closed minded, 'my party right or wrong' segment exists in American Society there will be those segments in Congress feeding off of it. I can see both Harry Reid and Mitch McConnell both reading this string and saying, "Oooo... there's one of us!" Thankfully, most of America is wising-up as independents finally out number 'registered' voters from either party.

JayCFO,

A discussion regarding economic issues is preferable to a rant against the CEO's in this country. Jealousy will get you nowhere.

Your income is suffering because jobs are being sent overseas. They are allowed by Congress through Free Trade, and not penalty for unregulated goods coming into this country. Meaning, our middle class will have to become more competitive against Chinese Labor and Chinese Benefits.

Unfair, yes. What Congress has been pushing for since the 90's. Yes. How to turn the tide? Add Tariffs until the trade deficit balances, and we start to keep at least as much wealth as we export to fuel other country's economies.

JayCFO-3768452 "ROY WILSON-336103 - Roy, you are exemplary of the baggin f#cks..... The president DID submit a budget back in Jan or Feb. Did you read it?"

Temper tantrum? Yes, I did read it, and most of my figures posted above are based on Obama's 2012 Budget - The one that didn't get a singe Democratic vote in the Senate, but since it does show actual history, and shows Obama's projected spending habits, it's the only thing available. If you want to review Obama's proposed Budget for 2012 for yourself, here is the link to it - notice it comes from Obama's White House;

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets/tables.pdf

If you look at Table S-14, you will see that Obama projects the National Debt increasing to $26.346 Trillion by 2021, which is an increase of more than $15 Trillion above Bush's last fiscal year in office (2008). And if you look at the following link to Obama's Budget Historicals, you will see that my figures for historical (and projected) Deficits are also accurate;

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals See Table 1.1

I realize that you are probably one of those people that think "Don't confuse me with facts, my mind's already made up", but I suppose that this is "An Inconvenient Truth", but it is also well documented.

As for your idea to 'Tax the 'rich', I have no problem in letting the Bush tax cuts for the 'rich' expire and closing the 'loopholes' that they use to avoid taxes. I also have no problem with a tax increase on those making over $1 Million per year, but since there are so few of them it would make little difference in total revenues.

What we need is JOBS to get the economy going again, but Obama's 'class warfare' rhetoric and anti-business/jobs policies have resulted in a stagnant economy and few net new jobs.

TheDCCircus,

Good post and I agree completely. People need to start critically thinking for themselves and stop being lemmings for "their" party.

TheDCCircus you took the words right out of my mouth Great post!!!!

johnQcitizen "dominick let me give you an example.suppose we put a 75 dollar tariff on bikes imported.american millionaire bill sees the tariff and the price of bikes made in china is now 150.he knows he can make bikes in kentucky for 125 and still make a decent profit"

While I'm philosophically opposed to tariffs because they lead to trade wars that dampen the World economy, I agree with you about the unfair trade practices from China, and that we should remove China's 'Most Favored Nation' status until they start 'playing fair'. It would immediately improve our trade/jobs situation.

But then, we do owe them a LOT of money.

@ Roy,

I used to agree with you on trade wars, but as a manufacturer changed my views. Free trade works with partners with "like" economies. Free Trade does not work when we are the consumer, and the partner is the manufacturer.

For example, when was the last time you heard someone vigorously complain about all those jobs we are losing to Canada, Aye?

elayne-675382

""I hope the whole thing falls apart. Totally crashes!! Then, maybe, this government will learn to live within its means as most of us do. Cut out foreign aid, stop the supporting the illegals and stop stealing our social security!!!!""

No disrespect Elayne, but do you really feel that way?

This "whole thing" you're talking about is a country... A Country full of people who used to be proud... Who used to do stuff.
If this whole thing falls apart, then the people within this "thing" will share the same faith... Yourself included.

If the situation is bad, then read about it, learn how we go out of our previous recessions, read about how other countries got out of their previous recessions... and then next time the voting booth is in front of you, you can encourage more people to vote BRAIN instead of JESUS.

Stop Foreign Aid... Do we really spend that much in foreign aid???
Stop Illegals... When was the last time an illegal took a job you really wanted??? I bet you were lined up, first in line, for a chance to be an orange picker.
Stop Stealing Social Security... Well... Here's the trick... Social Security is TAX BASED... Young, healthy people need to be working and PAYING TAXES so that the Old and Unhealthy can enjoy Social Security... If you support a politician that receives "CAMPAIGN DONATIONS" from institutions that promote outsourcing, then you can't be surprised when there are no jobs left.

You get what I'm saying... The best way I can put this is that EVERYTHING that's happening now, it's the AMERICAN PEOPLE'S fault...
We were the ones who voted for corrupted, ball-less politicians, we are the ones who buy Chinese made garbage and we are the ones who try to take advantage of everything instead of building something.

American Idol had more viewers than the president's address to the nation speech...

Eric-913730 "Roy, Republicans had it all between 2000 and 2006 and spent us into oblivion."

Not true. There was a split Congress for 2001 & 2002, so the Republicans only had control of the White House and Congress for 4 years. Let's look at the results of those 4 years;

During those 4 years with Republicans in control, The economy grew by 25.9% (6.48% per year), a net total of 7,942,000 jobs were added (1,985,500 jobs per year), and government tax revenues grew by 29.88% (7.47% per year - despite the Bush Tax Cuts that some people blame for 'reducing' tax revenues). It was only after a Democratic Congress was elected in 2006 that things went to pot (Thanks, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid). The figures for GDP are readily available online. The figures for Jobs and government revenues are at the official government links below;

PS – The average number of net jobs for Bush's last year in office (2008) was 145,362,000 people working, and for 2010 (after 2 years of Obama), the average number of jobs was 139,064,000, for a net LOSS of 6,298,000 jobs.

That's something you won't find reported in the media.

Jobs - http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat1.pdf

Government Revenues - http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals See Table 1.1

Eric-913730 "Roy, Republicans had it all between 2000 and 2006 and spent us into oblivion.....Roy, you can keep saying there was no 4 trillion dollar deal, but the press spent a lot of time on it, Americans heard about it. Just because it wasn't on paper (because the final deal wasn't either) doesn't mean it wasn't on the table."

The Republicans only controlled Congress for 4 years, and their average spending for all 8 years under Bush (2001 - 2008) was $2.396 Trillion per year, while the average spending for Obama's first 3 years (2009 - 2011 proj.) is $3.598 Trillion per year, which is an increase of $3.606 Trillion over 3 years ($1.202 Trillion per year = 50% +/yr.).

Tell me again how it was Bush that 'spent us into oblivion'.

So the 'press' spent a lot of time repeating Obama's 'talking points', but that means nothing. The Republicans complained all throughout the 'negotiations' that trying to negotiate with Obama was like trying to pin Jello to a wall - it just keeps sliding away. Obama would never put a plan on the table, despite his 'rhetoric'.

That ROY WILSON character has a tremendous amount of free time, apparently, for someone so dedicated to the "work ethic."

Yea why does someone spend millions to get a job that pays thousands

Is this for real? Um, POWER!

To paraphrase Jack Nicholson's Joker:

This country needs an enema!

freemason9 "That ROY WILSON character has a tremendous amount of free time, apparently, for someone so dedicated to the "work ethic." "

The benefits of being retired.

Roy, the PROJECTED deficit for the first three years of the Obama administration includes Bush's TARP, a piece of legislation passed and signed in late 2008 that appears as part of the FY09 budget because its appropriations were made after Oct. 1, 2008. The only significant budget increase proposed and signed by President Obama since he was inaugurated is the stimulus package, most of the rest was programmatic, and barring an early withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan, which he proposed to do in 2009 and was accused of endangering our troops and being an appeaser, there is not much he could have done to reduce spending.

Year Congress President Senate (100)House (435)

2009
111th
D
D - 55***
D - 256

2007
110th
R
D - 51**
D - 233

2005
109th
R
R - 55
R - 232

2003
108th
R
R - 51
R - 229

2001
107th
R
D*
R - 221

1999
106th
D
R - 55
R - 223

1997
105th
D
R - 55
R - 228

1995
104th
D
R - 52
R - 230

1993
103rd
D
D - 57
D - 258

1991
102nd
R
D - 56
D - 267

1989
101st
R
D - 55
D - 260

1987
100th
R
D - 55
D - 258

1985
99th
R
R - 53
D - 253

1983
98th
R
R - 54
D - 269

1981
97th
R
R - 53
D - 242

People can blame their own bad financial behavior for their currrent "worries". Folks who lived within their means and established some kind of systematic savings program (not a 401k badly managed by some phony "professional) over the years are not much affected by the current consequences of years of stupid consumers, greedy business people, and crooked politicians.

Roy (post #1.39), good for you. I wish you the best in retirement.

Cheers(!) from the Silver State.

ROY WILSON-336103

"Tell me again how it was Bush that 'spent us into oblivion'.".

Quick question Roy... DO you recall what the DEBT CLOCK looked like by the end of the Clinton Administration??? How did it look like 8 years later?

and By the Way... If you are going to talk about Money spent, you have to bring up what the money was used for.

The government cannot create jobs, but it created the environment in which jobs are created. Infra-structure, Education, Research... That's not discretionary spending, that's investment. That will be turned into revenue once these areas start producing and paying taxes.

So I think that the fundamental difference here is WHAT is considered discretionary spending... Is Education discretionary? Infra Structure? Health? Social Security? Tax Credits to Middle Class families? Tax Credits to Poor people? Tax credit to rich people? Tax credits to corporations that cut jobs and outsource (Check out the Chamber of Commerce and the Politicians it supports)...

I'm sorry dude... I wish it was a simple math, but there are a lot of things to be taken under consideration aside from Made 1 million X spent 2 million.

You know, sometimes you need to spend money to make money. We need to spend money on infrastructure, education, environmental concerns, etc. This would put people back to work, money flowing back into the government's coffers, and our economy would be on the road to recovery! But, if our president even MENTIONS spending money, the GOP/TP has a hissy fit!! The ONLY way we can put people back to work is to create jobs, and the only way to create jobs is to spend money to get things going.....money well spent to my way of thinking, but then again, I'm just a simple US citizen wishing things would just go back to the way they were when I was growing up in the 50's. Oh well....

Considering that this country produces very little of it's own products anymore, why is anyone surprised by high unemployment?

Didi,

we did exactly what you proposed, and it didn't work. Spending money on infrastructure puts someone to work until the project is finished. After that, back to unemployment. Putting some to work in manufacturing creates a life long job with opportunity for career advancement.

But we sent those opportunities to China.

The financial markets are saying that slow economic growth is the problem. The markets are NOT concerned about US debt.

The financial markets are telling the government to spend more and not worry about the debt. At least not until economic growth improves.

Whoever raised the issue of US debt got it completely wrong, apparently.

cdahl:

The reality is that Canada has lost more jobs from NAFTA as a percentage of its economy than the US has. The ONLY reason why Canada's economy is healthy is because of the strength of commodities including the high price of oil. Otherwise, the traditional economic engine of Canada, that being the manufacturing industry in the province of Ontario, has been pretty much decimated. This is now being made worse by the overvaluation of the Canadian Dollar.

Roy, except for one year, the Republicans had both houses from 1995 to 2006. Democrats really didn't take over until 2007. http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/l/bl_party_division_2.htm

So, it would seem you are the one with the talking points and not the evidence. Additionally Roy, most of the rising deficit are the two wars that Bush started and the Bush tax cuts.

Look at this graph folks and you'll see why Roy is wrong.

http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/05/deficit-chart-republicans-hate

Sheeple, Wake Up!!!

If we keep on voting for losers this will only get worse. When are the sheeple going to wake up and vote someone in who has credibility, has an opinion and thinks about the greater good of this country? Instead 99% of Americans keep blaming the other political party but don't realize that all these 'politics-as-usual' leaders are playing for the same team, and guess what, they're aren't playing for none of you!

How bad are things going to get until you guys get your heads out of the sand? Will it be when all of you are living in shacks that you will begin to ponder what happened?

Ron Paul 2012

Unbelievable some of the idiotic opinions here.

The problem is that Main Street is finally starting to wake up and rightfully hold Wall Street and the corporate fatcats accountable for their actions.

Pay close attention to Britain. Because that will be the US if these clowns on this "super committee" screw Main Street yet again. America is waking up and engaging heavily in its politics, with an ever increasing awareness.

The riots in Europe are NOT the product of "hooligans" as their PM would have you believe. It's the product of a decades long class war. And that war IS spreading around the globe.

In the short-term, an infrastructure bank would be a great fix, but ONLY if it's immediately followed up by serious trade reform, banking reform, and tax reform.

If these things are not done, SOON, this country will start tearing itself apart. And no, we DON'T have enough prison space to deal with what's coming.

1 - Standard & Poors said they needed a $4 Trillion cut in the Deficit over 10 years, but Obama wanted NO cuts - just a 'clean vote' on raising the Debt limit. The only reason there were any cuts at all is because the Republicans held his 'feet to the fire' to get the small cuts Obama finally agreed to. The downgrade was because the Democrats didn't cut ENOUGH from spending. Without bigger cuts in the Deficit, S & P warned they would downgrade our Debt, and they did.

2 - The 'Tea Party' Republicans voted for the Debt limit increase by about the same percentage as the Liberal Democrats - Why no criticism of the Liberals?

Roy

1 - Obama never said "no cuts". He wanted the debt ceiling debate and the spending cuts debate to be separate, as they should be. There is no reason to hold the debt ceiling and our credit rating hostage to push a separate issue. You are twisting the truth and desperately trying to make a false claim. The only actual difference is that liberals wanted the issues to be debated separately, and the tea party wanted to debate the issues together in an attempt to force their agenda. A request to debate spending cuts separately does not translate into "no cuts". You are spreading lies.

2 - Why no criticism? Because liberals did not admit to trying to destroy the economy. Your own house leader made the claim that the tea party is "trying to cause chaos". When they successfully achieved their goals, society naturally blamed them. If you do not want to be blamed, do not make the statement that the end result is your goal.

"Beth I agree he did not start this but he has made it dramatically worse his policies"

That's like saying "Yeah, I killed the guy, but you made it worse when you broke his ribs giving CPR".

I'm HONORED !!

Thank's For HAVING .. #.114 ..COLLAPSED

Good Day....................

Apparently nobody knows how to speak their mind, when given the opportunity, without a certain level of sensationalizing accompanying. Par for the course and pathetic. Thanks for replying, also, echo82.

The turndown has no connection to Frank and Dodd pushing for more folks in homes they could not afford. No connection to NAFTA, no connection to the uncertainty the current Administration adds on small business which is the engine this country runs on. No its all the tea party and the GOP fails---not. But since it makes you feel better Echo continue to repeat that.

Sorry Echo.. but someone will reap a benefit from the falling stockmarket. Many (who are not rich, but smart investors) will take a gamble on a stock, and it will pay off. It happens...

Stop the "starve the beast" crap Republicans.

Bush lowered taxes and went into deficit spending between the 2 wars and medicare part D (which costs more than the health care law and the stimulus combined). That led to this financial crisis which allows Republicans now to cut entitlements. That is the real reason why they don't want revenue increases.

Reform the tax code, dump the IRS, go to the flat tax or the fair tax and raise revenues. That is the only way to sustain medicare and social security in the long haul.

UAW, to the best of my knowledge Frank and Dodd were not Presidents, in fact, they were not even former Speakers of the House or Senate Majority Leaders. The real estate market collapsed, in part, because of the housing glut we still have, and because of banks overextending themselves in the derivatives market. The percentage of foreclosed houses purchased under the Affordable Housing Act is minimal. AHA mortgages are given to qualified - employed - individuals/families who can afford to make the monthly payments but do not have cash in hand to put down. The drawback is that they can only make a 2% profit per year when they sell.

If you want culprits for the real estate collapse look for unscrupulous and greedy developers and bankers. Eliminating the Steagall legislation was not a good idea, but that was not the main reason for the problems we are having. You may also want to consider who started the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and who gave the tax breaks that wiped out the budget surpluses we had in 1999 and 2000.

GOP/TP got it completely wrong. And we all suffer because of it. None of them had better be reaping profits from the down market....

Is it true that George Soros mad a billion dollars off the downgrade?? Just curious.

I would have a problem if any legislator who took part in the contrived crisis subsquently realized profit in the market they helped drive down by their actions. Soros? I could care less. He is not a legislator.

I have no idea if George Soros made money out of the recent stock selloff or not, but you can bet a lot of savvy investors did. Experienced investors take advantage of bear markets to make money selling short.

My good friend B. asked me to speak to you all.

It is time. In case you can still afford a clock. The time is now. What time is it mowdy5000 you my ask? I shall illuminate you all. It is the right time. Time to wake up. In fact our economy has been downgraded by a no name agency. Made up of letters they are unable to even afford entire words. So I want you all to realize something. WE don't have to wait on the economy to rebound. We don't have to suckle the proverbial teet of government all the time. We are the people. WE the people are the people.

We have what it takes. WE can do it. WE the people can make this country's economy go. And we can take the time to take the initiative. AS redundant as I am being to great detail YOU the people should already KNOW this. GO. Create you own business. Make your own jobs and the government will catch up. In time. And if you must look to someone look to me.

The work I have for you resembles New Jersey in the Sopranos but is work. And isn't it time to show some you know whats?

Time. Its a reason for watches. ; ]

Cheers

With the government virtually out of options.....

THANK THE ALMIGHTY! Obama is finally out of options!!!

It was the antics and complete unwillingness to compromise and act like adults, on the part of the Tea Party, that is the reason it's all being pinned on the Tea Party. Even other Republicans, who I generally do not support, were willing to work with the President and the Dems in Congress to come up with a plan everyone could support. The TP's are a bunch of arrogant spoiled brats who are forcing their ideas on the rest of us. THAT is why the tea party is being blamed.

On all parties Lori... I am a moderate Democrat, and I am disappointed that both sides have not done enough to compromise. Also, the American people are just as much to 'blame' in the whole situation. We are responsible for electing our leaders and most in this country do not even vote. It's time this country wakes up and demands our government be fiscally responsible with "OUR" money and future.

@ItsAboutTime: I agree. I think that's what the Tea Party is trying to do and then the Left calls then Terrorists, Nutcases, Racists, etc.

Thank God for the Tea Party or we would be deeper in debt and no plan at all if the Left had their way.

@its ... you are very correct!

But to dano, the TP ain't doing it either. Unfortunately, there are two many of them straying from the fiscal to the social and that's WHY they are being called those things.

If they would stick to the fiscal and leave our private lives alone -- there would be a lot more support. Face it, some of the, and it's the more vocal ones, ARE nutcases.

60 out of 536. Yeah now that is control. Give me a break Tea Party bashers.

"I am disappointed that both sides have not done enough to compromise."

How many times did Obama get up and storm away from the barganing table?

zero

How many times did Eric The Panty Waist teabagger Cantor and numerous other Teabags huff away in a petulant hissy fit?

numerous

who offered a 3 to 1 ratio of cuts to revenue? Obama

who rejected a bipartisan 3.7 trillion reduction proposed by the gang of 6? (that group included Tom Coburn of Okla. and Saxby Chambliss. let me guess, there not radical right-wing enough?)

the teabags.

and you have the nerve to blame Obama?

all of this could have been resolved MONTHS ago and we would have avoided the Teabag downgrade

and how many jobs have your grade school antics created, Teabags?

once again...Thanks Teabaggers for trashing the economy and my 401K

The Tea Party has no regard for the American economy. Most didn't want the debt ceiling raised and down played what the markets would do. In the end, the deal was not sufficient enough, and the brinksmanship led to the downgrade.

Wake up Americans, don't fall for the Tea Party apologists. This is what the markets do when compromises aren't reached. If Boehner had accepted the 4 trillion dollar deal this whole thing would have been averted.

Those of you who blame the TP are mistaken. The market is crashing due to the downgrade of our credit rating. Our credit rating was downgraded due to the fact that we increased the debt again without any realistic cuts in spending. Had it not been for the TP, Obama would have gotten his increase without any limitations. This administration has led this country to the edge of a cliff, and if you keep denying it, you are not living in reality. Every major economic indicator is much worse since Obama took office. He can't blame it on Bush anymore because that "dog don't hunt" with the American public anymore. This is his train wreck.

And the liberals would have then had to backtrack on their sermon of "you can't cut spending in a recession." You can't have it both ways whether you think it into reality or not (like most libs do).

@ Dexter-morgan Please show me in my post where I specifically blamed obama. The only part of my post related to the 'blame' game is on the American people for not voting and demanding fiscal responsibilty.

As you said, all of this could have been resolved MONTHS ago but wasn't? Where was Obama or the teabaggers then? Had both sides 'started' this the day Congress started session in January, maybe it could have been resolved sooner.

This situation is not going to be resolved in a day, month, or a year. It's going to take a helluva a lot more compromise on all sides to get it together and the American people getting off their A**.

The market is crashing due to the downgrade of our credit rating. Our credit rating was downgraded due to the fact that we increased the debt again without any realistic cuts in spending.

Actually, that's incorrect. The downgrading is ONE factor ... the market started to slide before that and much of it was tied to the Eurozone -- specifically Italy and Spain. The European markets were in trouble over that and it spread over here.

Like it or not, we are a GLOBAL economy.

I do agree with your reason for the downgrading -- however it was no surprise. S&P put out warnings, Congress ignored it.

The financial markets have some idea how economies work, right? The financial markets profit from that knowledge, right? So look at what the financial markets are saying. Investors vote with REAL dollars - so they are putting their money where their mouth is.

How has the markets performed since Aug. 2 - when the debt deal was signed. Have the markets trended up or down. Stock trend is an indicator of continued profitability - economic growth. The markets have not shown confidence that the economy is going to grow. The markets have not shown that jobs are going to be created, that demand is going to grow, that the economic recovery will continue (or start depending on your viewpoint).

How has the market reacted to the downgrade in US debt? US Treasury yields are at historic lows. That means the market sees US debt as better than AAA - even after the downgrade. The markets are NOT showing any concern over US debt.

What does all that mean? The markets are showing concern that the government is NOT going to do anything to expand the economy or create jobs. The government can only do that by spending money. That is the markets reaction to the 'austerity' plan agreed to by the President and Congress to raise the debt limit.

The markets are telling the government to spend more and not worry about the debt. At least not until economic growth is improved.

So - exactly who got it wrong by highlighting government debt?

ZZZZ Still waiting liberals all you have done was give me the administration and dems talking points. None of you have show me how .25 slow down in the rate of growth could have cause any of this. Remember no cuts just a reduction in the rate of growth. NO CUTS JUST A REDUCTION OF .25% IN GROWTH. Nobody in the leadership in either party was really interested in correcting this ship. Where is this change I thought you all wanted, because the only change has be moving closer to the EU, which by the way is burn because of there over spending.

jefft

Just last year it was the summer of recovery,....

....not just recovery....last summer was the summer of FUN!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=3JDT5vBQQr8&vq=medium

It's the theatrics of the political parties playing games with our lives, emotions and money. What did they expect?? Did they think every one was going to get right back in line and not react? Bull @!$%#!!

Our government has acted like spoiled brats and they're being treated accordingly. Sadly - we get punished along with them (more so).

And frankly, people like you, who distill everything into a "dems" and "reps" and "libs" and "conservatives" fight are an enormous part of the problem with this country right now.

Too true on both counts. Vote of no confidence anyone? (Sometimes gotta like the Brits)

If you want more economic collapse then vote for the Republicans and Tea Party in 2012. Spending cuts will lead to a stalled economy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/01/us/politics/01econ.html?pagewanted=all

If you want more out of control spending and total disregard for the will of the American people (obamacare) then vote democrat in 2012

George King: that's pretty darn good. Are you Rapper??

George King.......hmmm, who gave you my name? Seriously.

Where was Boehner this weekend? Was he calling for more cuts, trying to come back from vacation like the rest of Congress? NO!

No, he was off somehwhere happy in the knowledge that he got 98% of what he wanted. Therefore, he gets 98% of the blame for what happened. Happy now, Boehner?

What is with the blame game and liberals? It is always the fault of somebody else. Whine whine whine....

What is with the blame game and the righties? It is always Obama's fault. Whine whine whine......

Eric-91whatever

I sincerely can't believe you said that....lol

What direction should we be going skinger? I am on the edge of my seat.

hey Skippy, is that a Fox Noise sound bite?

Ha......Did you change the channels around on Sunday morning and hear the liberal rant. Unfortunately not one of them can think for themselves and have to be prompted for all the news shows. John Kerry was pathetic as well as Axelrod. Who takes credence in what he has to say anymore, anyway?

What you don't understand is that raising the debt ceiling had NOTHING to do with spending. It just allows us to pay the bills that we currently have....I don't know why people can't seem to get that right. It has NOTHING to do with spending!!! Like credit cards....interest rates go up and down the same for the Government as for any American. We needed to raise the debt ceiling to cover those raises due to inflation, etc.

didi

If that is the case WHY HAVEN'T WE BEEN PAYING DOWN THE DEBT??? Since we RAISED the Debt Limit 2.4 Trillion and we ONLY SPEND 1.6 Trillion more then we earn. DO you think that we will PAY 800 BILLION towards our Debt??

Isn't like BORROWING from Peter to PAY Paul TO SCREW MARY???

Guess WHO IS MARY!

You mean if we keep getting pelted everyday by the media that the sky is falling we'll believe it? DUH!

So be it.

As long as they believe it I have more time to buy some good-quality stock on a budget.

Hi Dixie Girl,

For many happy years, I have been out of the credit culture.

Yes, I have credit cards, and I charge almost everything on them.

But, I pay the balance back when it is due every month without it accruing any interest or fees. That is where I take full advantage of a credit card rather than it being the other way around. The money that I have to pay for these charges just sits in my savings account, earning more interest, until it becomes due.

It so happens that, due to this approach, the items that I purchase wind up costing less (however little that can be) than more if I were to spread payments out and accrue the usurious interest that these companies charge.

Imagine others who allow their balances to carry over from month to month. If they buy an article of clothing that cost $50.00, it winds up costing them $200.00 by the time they finish paying the interest that is charged on it.

And, this is what people do who can LEAST afford to pay more for their goods and services? It makes no sense at all.

And, yes, I CAN pay for everything.

I even had the common sense to pay down a mortgage in 2006.

And every time I became more and more credit/debt free, the more economic freedom I had.

Now, the responsibility lies with others who make reckless economic decisions.

RFBS you've done a great job. Congrats. I do believe that a lot of people got hooked on credit cards in the 70s when you could deduct the interest on your income tax returns. Once we all got sucked into using credit cards, hook, line and sinker, the interest deduction was eiliminated.

JerseyKat,

Thank you.

I am happy to hear that there remain sensible people like you out there that can see what is going on.

It is interesting about the deduction in the 70s, though. Once the deduction was eliminated, they should have been in a position to cut the credit cards. But, it seems that they may have been in over their heads in charges already.

I don't necessarily know that the deduction was such a justification, as you could only deduct a certain percentage based upon your bracket. It could never be a complete dollar-for-dollar return, or credit.

I believe that an overall culture developed that made people believe that credit was, somehow, "free money". It is really just MORE money - that has to be paid.

Patty,

Your post highlights the core issues with the current POTUS. His lack of 2 vital qualities that are need to run this country... Leadership and Experience.

You forgot intelligence

Patty,

The deaths of the members of Seal Team are tragic and only someone as insensitive as you would link their deaths to yet another slam on the president. You obviously have no comprehension of how inappropriate that is.

echo,

The blame game again? Get over yourself! Patty was making a valid point and all you can come up with is the blame bs...what a dolt.

Let her defend herself, watt75. that is, if she is able to.

Funny, Patty, I never saw a vacation that Bush didn't love. You probably don't realize this, but President Obama has taken LESS time off from the White House than ex-President Bush EVER did! People seem to forget this so easily! And, like our Congressmen, etc., he has a right to take vacations. With the job that he has to do.....I don't blame him!

echo82

The deaths of the members of Seal Team are tragic and only someone as insensitive as you would link their deaths to yet another slam on the president.

blah blah blah TWO WARS! (forget Libya) blah blah blah blah THE RICH blah blah blah TEA BAGGERS blah blah blah blah G-DUB blah blah blah RUSH blah blah BECK blah blah blah REAGAN blah blah blah WALL STREET blah blah blah blah REPUBLICANS blah blah MILLLIONAIRES blah blah blah PALIN....on and on ad nauseum..... oops - add "deaths of seal team".

ANYTHING to get attention away from Obama - anything but accountability. That's the strategy for the next election.

justoneguy: You make absolutely no sense.

Please.... The Republicans are just as much to blame as Obama or anyone else in Washington for the last 50 years. Also, take some blame as an american citizen. If you are not happy with the situation, then make a change.

You are so right!

This country has NEVER been as divided as now!!!

And the liberals follow him like Jim Jones.......

Correct, the real change needed in this country is to remove these bums from political office, especially the head bum.

WHETHER ANY OF YOU LIKE IT OR NOT...

I must say that I believe the divisiveness to be rooted in racism.

Many people have done everything that they can to criticize and deride this President.

However, I really believe that much of it is because they just can't stand the idea of an African American in the Oval Office.

I believe that the divisiveness is really due to this underlying racist sickness that persists in America.

They all need to go. We have a president and a Congress who cannot or will not cooperate with each other, to the detriment of this country. Their last minute bickering over the debt ceiling cost this country a lowered rating by Standard & Poors for the first time in our history. If the President and Congress can't cooperate, then they cannot lead this country. We need a clean sweep in the next election.

RFBS - keep your head stuck in the sand, sounds like a great solution.

RFBS - has nothing to do with the man's race for me. I couldn't care less if he's white, black, brown, yellow, blue, green, purple or plaid.

It has everything to do with the flavor of Kool-aid that he and his liberal ilk are trying to force down my throat.

I've had enough, already...I want my country back!

I didn't know that "stupid" was a protected class

RicCastagna

America hasn't gone anywhere, you're the one that left.

You want "your" country back? As Lincoln said to Jefferson Davis: Come...and...get...it.

I haven't changed, AZPADDY...but the country has degraded dramatically. Drastically away from what it was supposed to be.

Have you been championing what our country stands for...or, should I say, stood for?

You see, when our country was founded, everyone did something. They were doctors, lawyers, shop keepers, farmers...they did something. You didn't have people sitting on their a$$ saying "gimme" or "you owe me". If they worked for a wage, then, yes, they were owed their wage...but nothing over and above what they earned. They also contributed a portion of what they earned to the operation and funding of the government.

Fast forward to today - millions of people are sitting around saying "gimme" and "you owe me". If they do work, whatever is withheld from their earnings for Federal income tax is returned, and in some (many) cases more is returned than was withheld. These people are not taxpayers. Until they become taxpayers, we will always have a revenue problem.

Second - back in the day, concerned citizens became public servants to represent their neighbors. They went to Washington to do the business of the country over a period of six to twelve weeks. Once their public service was complete, the returned to their farms, shops, medical practices or whatever it was they did in "real life". Politics was not a career.

Granted, there needs to be more time to do the country's business these days because there is more business to do, but the idea that people can become a politician for life is sickening.

RicCastagna

To address your first point, you're saying there should be no public assistance? You don't differentiate between those who are drawing unemployment, those who receive work related disability payments, those who recieve welfare of any kind. Just that there are "millions of people are sitting around saying "gimme" and "you owe me".

Maybe you can be more specific in identifying those you accuse of expecting payment for doing nothing. You also say "You see, when our country was founded, everyone did something." That's true. Many people even owned slaves, and worked to prevent non-land owners and women from voting. We have progressed to where society if very different than it was when the nation was new, like it or not.

Your entire comment is based on the fallacy that there are millions (unnamed, of course) recieving payment from the federal government for literally no other reason than they ask for money.

To say your comment is not based on fact is the polite way of responding.

Who are these "millions" that collect money from the government for doing nothing?

AZPADDY, the millions I refer to are those who are able bodied, yet for whatever reason choose to do nothing and get paid for it, rather than do something and contribute to our society.

I do understand that if you are physically or mentally unable to work, that there should be a measure of assistance provided. I do not, however, believe that the infirm make up the bulk of people who do not have any skin in the game.

I would further suggest that providing assistance to the infirm should be a major focus of private charity, personal choice and church initiatives as opposed to government directed programs. At the very least, it would remove the impression that the vast amount of money being spent on keeping these people in the manner in which they've become accustomed to is nothing more than a vote buying scheme.

As for the unemployed, there are jobs to be had out there. They might not be the exact job someone had or wants, but there is work out there. Of course, if they can receive unemployment checks for 99 weeks is there much motivation to get out and get back in the game? Nope.

When I read your comment on my second point about people owning slaves, my first reaction was that you were trying to throw a red herring into the mix for no good reason. However, after careful consideration...I think you might be on to something. Do the aforementioned financial handouts do anything for the recipients in the way of motivation to do better, or are they just a political vehicle to keep them enslaved? Kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Of course our society has progressed from when our nation was new, but does that mean we've progressed past the point where everyone, regardless of their "lot" in life, should be contributing to our society in general?

Why am I expected to share 30%, 40%, 50% or 60% of what I earn with someone who has nothing to share because the government gives everything back to them?

Wouldn't it stand to reason that if they had even 3% in the game tax revenue would increase? And, before you throw back that I don't want the rich to pay their fair share, don't bother - everyone above a pre-determined income level should be paying the same percentage. Close loop-holes for all...about the only deduction I might be convinced to keep would be an interest deduction for your mortgage, but I'm not entirely sure on that one, either.

Here's my goal - we get back to a point where all citizens are contributing to the operation and future of America. Our politicians can help out by spending in a responsible manner with appropriate caps on expenditures.

No, that does not mean we go back to owning slaves or preventing non land owners or women from voting. We do, however, need to get back the spirit that we're all part of America, and work for everyone's betterment.

When hundreds show up to apply for 25 openings at a McDonald's, I'd say the idea that there are plenty of jobs "out there to be had", is a fallacy.

You're living in a fantasy world where people are lazy and only want to skim off the government, while crooked politicians game the system to reward them with cash. Voting records alone dispel that myth.

In fact, that's pretty much the narrative that white supremacists promote to justify their hateful belief system.

I would hope you're smarter than that.

In the past four years, I've managed to stay employed even though my profession is that of a consultant. I think the most I've had between assignments has been three weeks.

At no time have I applied for unemployment benefits.

If someone who depends on contract work for a living can continue to make a living during the worst recession in modern history, I stand by my point - there's work out there to be had if the person is willing to go out and look for it.

Granted, I've had to move away from my primary residence to where the opportunities are, but I've done what's necessary to maintain my level of income and steady employment. If I can do it, why can't someone who's been out of work for 99 weeks.

I have a few simple questions for you.

1) Do you believe that nobody is gaming the welfare system?

2) Do you believe that nobody is gaming the unemployment benefits system?

3) Do you believe that the government pays the "poor" for their vote with tax credits and refunds over and above what's withheld from their earnings?

If you've answered 'no' to those questions, I would suggest you're the one living in a fantasy world.

I know, personally, of a couple who had $1200 withheld from their check for Federal income tax. Their refund was $5600. Where do you suppose that extra $4400 came from, and do you think they'd vote someone into office who suggested stopping their year-end bonus? I don't think so.

Now, if you want to suggest that I'm a white supremacist, we can end our conversation right now.

I'm not sure why suggesting that everyone - regardless of where they are on the socio-economic scale - should be contributing something towards the sustaining of our government makes me a white supremacists. That smacks of a typical liberal debate tactic: If you can't substantiate your argument in an articulate manner, call your opponent a racist and make them defend themselves thereby taking focus away from the original debate.

I would hope you're smarter than that. You sure seem to be, anyway.

Gongratulations on being so fortunate.....even though it's irrelevent to the discussion.

Your arguments regarding those who seem to profit off other's work is the exception, and not the rule. It's a time honored practice of conservative politicians to point out any deficincies or flaws in a given government program as proof that the program is a failure, and government again, fails at anything it tries.

The only reason I've mentioned white supremacists is because of your blanket indictment of the unnamed who "sit on their asses saying gimmee. or you owe me".

That statement is exactly the message of the intlorant and hateful members of white supremacist organizations. I've asked you more than once to identify - be specific - who you believe these people are, yet you offer only anecdotal evidence.

Once more, who are these "millions of people are sitting around saying "gimme" and "you owe me"."??

You know very well that all government programs - including IRS guidlines - simply do not give money to anyone who fills out a form. People seeking any assistance must meet the criteria for that assistance, be it local, state or federal.

Don't play coy, RicCastagna, who and where are these "Millions" of deadbeats??

Unable to find a full-time job, Ms. Tatum did temporary work but found that the more she earned, the fewer government benefits she received; ultimately she couldn't make ends meet.

45.8 million people collecting food stamps

Oh, and for an example of someone (granted, just one) gaming the system:

43.4 Million people pay no tax

My "anecdotal" evidence is also specific evidence. I saw their tax return.

Now, do I have any broad, sweeping generalizations to make about "who" these people are that are just sitting around? No. I can't tell you the demographic breakdown.

But I can tell you that 38% of the returns filed in Alabama had zero or negative (they got more than they put in) tax liability. In California, it was 33%. In fact, not a single state had less that 20% of their returns with zero or negative tax liability.

Even the biggest moron (and I'm not remotely suggesting that you are that person) on this board should be able to see that far too many people in America are skating by year after year without contributing a cent towards the day to day operation of the Federal government, and a portion of those are getting a bonus simply for filling out a form and meeting the criteria necessary for the granting of that bonus.

Sadly, you've not provided me with any evidence that my contentions are invalid, other than trying to get me to "name names" as to exactly who's gaming the system.

So, here's your challenge.

1) Show my why it's unreasonable for everyone in America to have some skin in the game when it comes to funding the obligations of the Federal government, and

2) Show me, with empirical evidence, that people don't game the system for financial gain.

OK...not sure what happened to the links that I posted, but they were very simple Bing queries. Should be pretty easy to find.

Food stamps article was in the Wall Street Journal.

The guy gaming the food stamp system was a $2mil lottery winner that continued to receive food stamps.

And, the 43.4 million who pay no tax was from The Tax Foundation and uses statistics from 2006. I'll let you drawn your own conclusions as to whether or not those numbers have increased or decreased in the last five years, but I know where my conclusions lead me in light of our current economic malaise.

the first one would be anecdotal. So exactly how much do you think should be spent investigating a few people for abusing the food stamp system. It would cost FAR more than the cost of the food stamps.

As for the tax thing, so what? that tells me more that there is an income problem in the US more than anything, and the push by the tea party to destroy the middle class is only going to make that worse.

People are ALWAYS going to game the system. That has been happening since the beginning of organized society. The only question is, has it been clamped down enough where the cost of clamping down more costs more than the money gained from it.

As for the pay no tax, lets see how far you get when you suggest that their tax deductions get taken away.

Actually, Jonathan, I would expect I would get more protests out of those who were now required to contribute than those who already do. After all, we're "used" to it.

Those who are zero liability or tax refund profiteers are used to getting everything back and shouldering none of the burden of supporting our government.

RicC

Thanks for the ol' college try, but people like Jonathen are in it for the $$ - there is no other way than to attempt to protect his host to whom he's firmly attached and sucking - the Federal Govt.

just:

whatever, I probably paid more in taxes last year then you have in the last decade, but again whatever. I deliberately pay more taxes than I could to piss off my ex, but I guess yeah, that has to do with being in it for the money.

Jonathan

Citrcular arguments are tiring, and dizzying. The fact that many people don't earn enough to pay income taxes in this conservative inspired economic crisis is totally lost on some.

We could present the facts for days, yet they wouldn't acknowledge them.

Leave them to their misery.

Yeah, after I posted that message I realized the error of my ways lol

RFBS

And ALL this time I thought Obama was IRISH!

Agreed.

This little 1200 points in the last week is not a correction. Things have been inflating since 1934 and wages have not kept up. I am anxious to see what the FED is going to say this afternoon. Our economy is in a catch 22; good luck propping up this fiat currency!! What a joke, I thought we were an intelligent species.

Not sure I want to hear what this administration has to say. We've alrealy heard about the "bump in the road". I'm ready to hear "we are total failures and leaving the presidential office so someone that knows how to lead can step in" speech.

MtMike: There is no simple solution to the extremely complicated situation we are in and claiming that there is only exacerbates the problem. While I generally believe that casting blame is equally counterproductive, I have to say that the Tea Party and other rabid right wingers are dangerously misinformed. As are those who blame Obama. I'm disappointed in Obama's leadership in this cirsis, he didn't cause it.

At the end of the Clinton administration, the US had a budget surplus and was on track to be debt free within a decade. The conversation at that time hinged around what to do with all the money we were rolling in and concerns about unintended consequences of paying off the debt that quickly. What happened? Bush and a Republican Congress simultaneously got us into an unfunded war and cut taxes on upper income earners. During the same administration, regulations on and oversight of financial institutions were reduced or eliminated allowing the irresponsible and reprehensible actions that precipitated the collapse of the mortgage industry. So this country basically went from riches to rags during the eight years of the Bush administration. This is fact not hyperbole.

Now for the idea that the problem should be solved simply by cutting spending, particularly on "entitlements", without any increase in revenue, i.e. taxes:

The tax rate for the wealthiest people in this country is the lowest it has been since the 1930s! Furthermore, exemptions guarantee that the wealthy actually pay far less than the rate implies. Warren Buffet acknowledged this when he made the statement that his secretary actually paid taxes at a higher rate than he. The disparity between the haves and have-nots has also grown during the past decade. Currently, 87.2% of this country's wealth is controlled by less than one fifth of the population. That leaves just 12.8% of this country's resources for the remaining four fifths of us. Besides the moral implications of giving the rich a free ride, it just doesn't work economically. It isn't good for democracy either.

Now for the baloney about welfare deadbeats sucking the life out of our economy. What most of us would consider welfare, that is aid to poor people, is actually less than 1% of the national budget. Most of the rest of what are referred to as "entitlements' consist of pensions that hard working people have paid for all of their lives. So where does all the money go? Overwhelmingly, it goes toward the military. Here's an actual breakdown of the US budget with all of the rhetoric stripped out.

Current military: 36%

Past military: 18%

Human resources: 30%

General government: 11%

Physical resources: 5%

The wide spread belief in the myth of tax-and-spend Democrats versus fiscally responsible Republicans is a public relations coup of the highest order. Not that I'm impressed with the Democrats right now either. Oh no, far from it. But it is in fact the Rebublican party, especially the Tea Party, that has diverted public attention away from the real problem (income inequality) and managed to get us to blame the victims. If the general public was aware of all the facts, we would be rioting in the streets too!

Reality Check-3881536

Income inequality comes about by the choices people make!

There are consequences for the decisions one makes.

There should not be government rewards, handouts and entitlements for those that choose to "milk" the system, content to live at "poverty".

Drug/alcohol test those on government "entitlement programs", mandate people to do government "clean up work" to get their "unemployment" check - The government should stop paying people not to work and force those on that roll to take the $10 an hour jobs available and retrain!

MtMike, I agree that the choices we make, particularly those involving education, influence our financial well being and earnings potential, but that is only one of several factors, particularly during recessions or a weak economy when people are often affected by decisions that are beyond their control. The overwhelming majority of those receiving welfare are not poor because they enjoy being poor.

I agree with the idea of making welfare recipients work for the money they are getting including, as you suggested, working as janitors, landscapers or anything that contributes to our society and well being. Unfortunately, many are women with small children, with limited skills and without the ability to pay a babysitter or daycare to go to work, and some are handicapped. It is also important to remember that many unemployed Americans lack the skills required for the vacancies that do exist. I re-training program would help in that area (the Labor Dept is doing that).

I don't support perpetual welfare, but I support programs that help the poor and the unemployed for a few months until they can get their feet on the ground and are able to find meaningful employment.

Dominick-2063552

The people I am familiar with on unemployment, or that are unemployed or underemployed, are looking for hand outs, are in that way, because they choose to be.

I wish what I saw was not true.

These "poor" refuse to change careers or locations, and are paid more not to work by government, than their work skills will pay them to work.

These so called poor are just plain manipulative and lazy, content to work for cash under the table, while drawing government aid, have their "old vehicle", cell phone, flat screen TV and beer - what more do they need?

I know Casino Employees, realtors, union laborers, to name a few, who all fit the above description.

Government needs to stop creating or assisting unemployed, by offering the unemployed a standard of living better than they have when they are employed!

MtMike: I don't know about you, but I certainly couldn't live on $450/week, which is what we get in California if we make over $45,000/year. That's a HUGE drop in my pay, and I could NOT survive on that. Therefore, I'd have to get off my A$$ and get out there to find work and not depend on the government to pay my way! I don't know too many people who are out of work that COULD live on that kind of money, no matter what kind of job they used to have!

MtMike: How do you see this working with the Elderly? Many of them are on a fixed income (not by choice) have held jobs, paid their taxes, been good citizens, and then suddenly find their entire life savings wiped out because their spouse became ill. How do they make it in a world where they have to choose to pay for their prescription medications this month or pay for their skyrocketing fuel costs?

I agree with a lot of your thoughts, but just curious on the elderly, the mentally retarded, the "TRUE" handicapped, etc

@Didi-376564

We all make choices. Many of the people I know drawing on the government unemployment, live in small towns, or in the mountains, or in cities such as Reno, Nevada, where $450 a week is good wages. I own a 8 room lodge in Alaska, we pay housekeepers $10 a hour to clean rooms - do the math - 40 hour week equals $400 gross wages a week, before taxes - the government pays more NOT to work, than we can afford to pay to work, finding help is difficult. People do not WANT to work - why work when one can get food stamps and paid not to work! (the more babies, the more one is paid not to work) The system is broken!

@ItsAboutTime-3704531

I am 61 years old and worked all my life. I never thought I would be able to exsist on social security, or if social security would be there if needed, so I have tried to plan accordingly.

There are consequences for the personal decisions one makes.

For a society to elect politicians and blindly follow and rely on a crooked government, a society living beyond their means, borrowing to pay their way, with a government that has robbed social security funds, a government that has a social security/medicare/medicaid fund where the numbers do not work, and one is told so about the numbers, is a choice to follow.

There are consequences for the choices.

Should the elderly be taken care of, especially the type of elderly you have described, of course.

Does the US need a basic change in how the US retirement/entitlement system functions - yes!

Does government need to clean up government waste, duplicity in programs, manipulators of the system, yes, Will that happen - remains to be seen.

The US Military Industrial Complex War Machine has a strangle hold on American way of thinking (Eisenhower warned the US). As long as making war is the US way of jobs, we, as a society, the US will be in trouble. The US could divert the Military Industrial Complex Funding and start rebuilding the infra structure of the US, putting people to work, but that does not seem to be a high priority. The US lacks fair trade agreements, hence the outsourcing of US jobs.

Not looking good for America, no country can continue to borrow to live beyond their means.

Without a proper fiscal plan to pay off debt, as the US is doing, America looks deeply in trouble!

The US Credit Card is maxed! Time to Cut, Cap, Balance, clean up government waste, protect US Citizens with fair trade agreements, America and Americans First.

We should have stopped the medical field from perpetuating certain advances a long time ago. As a species we need to be able to evolve along the lines of survival of the fittest in order to advance our species.

I beleive that there should be less of us but stronger smarter versions.

I also do work comp. Wow talk about a corrupt welfare system that doesn't work. I think if the new health care law takes affect that employers should no longer have to pay workers comp but pay a small percentage more towards their employees private healthcare.

I would probably lose my job but it's the right thing to do!

I no longer do work comp defense - I did that in Florida a few years ago. It surprised me to learn illegals are entitled to it despite being illegal and they collect checks and settlements, go to the doctor for free, etc. What a rip off. Worst of all, their records can't be checked for preexisting conditions whereas an American citizen with a work comp injury has every medical records they ever had from birth subpoenaed. It's so disgusting. What's worse is the in your face attitude these illegals have knowing they can get away with it.

Maybe that's the real reason the kids are rioting in London. To bring those overpaid aristobrats back from their holidays.

I wish I could get 5 weeks off at a time.......I must be in the wrong job!!

The new prosperous and peaceful America is one election away!

Not a solution for what's ailing us right now...

I agree with what you say only because I know how the system works. If the blogs are full of peaceful positive comments the data will reflect this. There are high tech software programs that scour the internet blogs and then crunch the data (I think they call the system micro bots or something like that). The traders know what the people are thinking. This is not new software technology. They try very hard to persuade your thinking with positive headlines and the like. Memes run wild and if you do not know what a meme is, then you are five steps behind what is really going on.

What's really going on in the outer world is not as powerful as the inner world.

If you inner world is love and peace, the outer world will be loving and peaceful...

Memes of love and peace could spread throughout the outer world...

Flowers in the hair in San Francisco?

Don't forget to sit around the camp fire and sing kumbi ya.

newbook:

Well said.

Going into a peace and zen induced coma also does not help our current situation.

Like you don't have a clue troll

marilee: I look forward to hearing your ideas during the Presidential debates.

Ladies and Gentlemen and taxpayers of all ages... welcome to Tarem & Feathers THEDCCIRCUS... the Most Dysfunctional Show on Earth! The Big Top is higher than ever (14.5 trill), Obombya the Human Drone juggles three wars simultaneously, The Magnificent Mitch presents Leapin' Loopholes - marvel as the 'job creators' pocket tax savings and create NO JOBS! Barney the Clown brings the house (all of them) down with his SubPrime Comedy Show! Eric "The World's Most Arrogant Man" stampedes a herd of wild elephants through middle class America. The Flying Supremos turn concrete corporations into constitionally protected citizens before your very eyes! Those WACKY ATF brothers stuff comical numbers of automatic weapons into border bound SUV's! The fun won't end until our country does!! Come one, come all to TheDCCircus.com and celebrate The Most Dysfunctional Show on Earth!!!

"There's a sucker born every 12.3 seconds" (birth rate of the American taxpayer) PT Tarem

What really disappointing is that you see this squabbling over how the tea party caused this problem by democratic supporters, or how the only reason we got any 'spending cuts' are because of the republicans by republican supporters. What makes me sick is none of this is true. The S&P downgrade is a result of decades of over spending that is now being topped of by the failed leadership of our president to actually do what is really necessary, not what is politically popular or expediant. Moreover, those 'spending cuts' are nonexistent, the republicans sold out their constituents and did the age old political back dealing. All the republicans did cut rate at which spending will increase, its still going up.

Here is what needs to be done

1. Real cuts in spending, not budgeting base line cuts, where spending goes up by 2% instead of 3%.

2. Real spending cuts will entail cuts of military, social security, and medicare spending, which combined constitute 62 % of federal spending. If any one of these programs is ommitted then its a giant red flag that the paticular plan will not result in an eventual balanced budget.

3. A fundemental shift in the roll of the fedeal government towards less involvement has to happen. If it continues as is then we will never attain a balanced budget, or even a more propserous society.

4. The corporate tax rate has to be lowered, currently it is the second highest in the developed world, and corporate welfare must be eneded.

5. government has to stop picking winners and losers, that means no more subsidizes, it is an inefficient use of precious capital. capital should be used to create wealth, which in the long run benefits all americans.

6. congress needs to stop abdicating their responsibility to faceless government agencies and vote on the laws themselves.

hate creates fear creates hate creates fear.....the GOP mantra

He is the one at the top, who else should we blame? Should it be the democratically controlled congress for the past 6 years. At least the republicans proposed a budget, the democrats say they don't like it and counter propose nothing. That is working out well so far!!!

Rick: The Democrats (and our President) DID propose a budget, but Boehner declined it after bringing it back to the GOP/TP group! Additionally, everyone blames our president for the budget.....his only job as regards the budget is to sign it or veto it.....he has NO input in the budget whatsoever. Of course, he could have vetoed the budget as it was passed in the Congress, but then he would have been blamed for the major meltdown due to not raising the debt ceiling. Either way, he ends up getting blamed for even things he has no control over! It's a sad predicament that our government can't play well together!!

No legal cause?

...just thought I'd point that out.

We didn't impeach Bush and he was in charge when this all began. Not saying it was his fault but niether is it Obama's. The system has been broken for years but things SEEMED to be going smoothly. Then when the two political businesses began defending their cash cows we, Americans, were left in the lurch.

Anyone consuming the GOP or DNC Kool-Aid gets what they deserve. NEITHER of those businesses give a tinker's dam about us as is evidenced by their past performances. What we need is a leader. Not a script reader like Reagan or a playboy like Clinton. Harry Truman was the last President with cajones. Ike was the last true leader. From that point on it's been a downward spiral to where we are now and we're not even sure where that is. So if impeachment is the order of the day (which legally it is not) the same emotions should be in play to run the Tea Party back to the woods, the GOP back to their rich friends and the Democrats back to thir State of Confusion.

There is not much Obama or anybody can do. Our economic problems are not about what we are doing today, but what we have done for decades. Credit deflation cannot be avoided after credit inflation runs it's course. It is going to be a deflationary crash. Great Depression #2. Sell the stock market rally. It is bouncing from technical support. It will come down again.

www.tradingstocks.net/html/latest_opinion.html

Geno65 - I'm not sure I buy everything in your post, but you're 100% right in saying our current situation is not the work of any one president, congress or political party.

I hope that both you and sambat are incorrect, but I fear that we are indeed heading into the second Great Depression (GPII). The current bickering in Washington is symptomatic of the panic gripping our leaders. The warning lights on the economic control panel are all blinking red, and they haven't the slightest idea what to do.

...and that fear and panic is no small factor in the recent 1100 point plunge of the DOW.

"State of Confusion"...I like that one. You've been listening to John Kerry again, haven't you?

Because the people have no power to impeach anyone. The House has to vote to impeach and the Senate has to agree, and by a two-thirds vote. The writers of the Constitution did this so the power of the people would be limited. Most of them had no trust or liking for the people, whom they called the masses.