If people invest in a company that lost $389 million last year and $102 million in the first quarter of 2011, then that means we've got speculators who merely want to cash in on a wave. If the opening day price shoots up unrealistically, then yeah, we've got a bubble.
Investors want their money and the IPO is their payback. Lot of these companies will not survive and the retail buyers of the stock WILL pay the price at the end.
Groupon and the social media sites are fads, likely the majority wont be around in 10 years. All you have to do is look at the history of our markets and business ventures. If you produce nothing its only a matter of time.
Thats why staples are around and fads are not. IPO's are as tontosh stated a way to cash out on something that probably wont last.
Tontosh is correct - someone had to front the money for these massive losses, and therefore is looking to get their money back. Which is where the IPO comes in.
As investors, why wouldnt anyone be demanding that Groupon explain, even slightly, how they plan to take this company from massive losses, to massive profits?
I've never understood why people would view a company raising 750 million in stock offerings as anything OTHER THAN MORE DEBT.
So the company has already lost 500 million, add another 750 million...and they are magically going to grow the company to EARN PROFITS enough to pay back the initial investors, the new investors, and to keep moving forward?
I can only hope that average people, dont invest in this...let the uber wealthy get fleeced. Middle class america needs to pull out of wall street, and let them scew each other over...not us anymore.
The billions that Google offered to buy Groupon are looking pretty sweet now I bet. The problem with Groupon is that smaller clones of it have been biting off bits and pieces of its business, so now it's rushing to IPO.
It's too late. Average Americans are getting screwed. Idiots who are in charge of pensions and retirement funds are investing our dollars into these risky junk investments... and like always, we are getting screwed for it.
Why discuss IPO's when us 'Little People' cannot participate in this farce we call the stock market until after it's run up to double or more by big investors?
The entire financial system is corrupted and is designed to enrich the rich and enslave the poor
We the people, for the people, by the people has perished from this earth.
Jessica - incorrect. Whether you invested on Wall Street or not, the reckless and immoral behavior with derivatives in the last 10 years has taken money from ALL of us, most especially those who have not received a government bailout and can't afford trickdick accountants to cook our taxes.
Sure, what you state is trivially true, but it's only a small part of the big picture.
It's the GOP on a roll.... the banks get rich along with the GOP cronies who get in on the "initial" offering (anyone ever try to get in as a regular investor?).... they make their bundles, get their massive tax write offs and low tax rates... and we get "snookered"... Why would anyone pay massive amounts of money for something that doesn't make any money.... I don't get it?... China makes things... and we make Facebook.... something is wrong here.....
Are you kidding me Kevin? How long have you been of voting age? Do you actually think one side of the isle is a better option than the other? Grow up or they will have you scratching your head 40 years from now wondering why one side or the other has not made a difference.
Kevin my boy this is what Career Politicians do for a living.
Right on Kevin! Why does Wall Street and the entire system continue to invest money on worthless crap while the Chinese pursue commodities, production and real jobs?
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Democraps are just as much in on this scam as the Republitards. The ONLY politician who wants to END THE FED
is RON PAUL.
If you want something to change, it has to start with the monetary policy. No government has ever survived long with a fiat currency, whereas many civilizations have demonstrated the benefits of "sound money".
Educate yourself on what this means, and don't get fooled into the DIVIDE and CONQUER strategy of "Democrat" vs. "Republican".
The answer is that China does not use a fiat currency, and as a result, despite having a centrally planned economy, they are not able to create "magic money" that allows them to artificially prop up present production for future massive inflation. As a result, their economy signals to them when an activity has a real effect on production and not just an illusory effect, and so they invest in and produce goods and services with REAL value.
Speculation of a bubble is not news since we are already well into its development. It would be nice if the press actually understood the facts they report. In the current case a bubble has formed as the result of unfettered exuberance on the part of the uninformed. Social media may be intriguing but the business model is seriously flawed and for the most part is a polished version of the pump and dump business plans of the dot-bomb era. People will eventually wake up and realize that the current quick buck charlatans are stealing personal information, using it without permission and selling it to a very finite market. In this circumstance there is no way to justify stratopheric market caps regardless of the alleged blessing of toothless, incompetent regulators.
Amen, Jessica. The "uber" rich (also a term that won't last long) are getting rich off the middle class's feeble investing attempt. Stop giving them your money. They and our government's "Plunge Protection Team" (look it up) manipulate the market to cater to the wealthiest. The politicians need that money to run another campaign, you know. If you don't have the capability (i.e. losts of money (or paper that looks like money), and corrupt know how) you will lose eventually. You have better odds at the craps tables in Vegas, and tghey give you free drinks.
Ms. Linn is correct to point out that some of these social media-based Internet companies are showing a lot of promise in investors' eyes but little profit so far. In Groupon's case, it is investing heavily in marketing -- direct email, advertising, and the like -- to attract new subscribers. When that will translate into profits I'm not sure. Feel free to also read my blog on Hoover's on Groupon's IPO here www.bizmology.com
Groupon is nothing but a data mining scam. I got screwed by Groupon with their FTD coupon which cost me $20 more then if I went to the normal website. They were caught in the scam and they sent out emails to people saying they would credit the difference but here I am, 3 months later and still no refund. Groupon is an unethical company that will screw their investors.
And the answer is 'cuz the government doesn't trust you not to lose it all'. Flat out :) But he's right. only the rich can buy google at .50 cents a share. not the poor or middle-class. you get it at 120.00.
...Groupon bubble burst? Oh just another thing to destroy the livelihoods of millions more americans. Let's just find a another new way to throw our money away, and then get screwed over...AGAIN!
Instead of investing in an unscrupulous venture for your own self gain, and theirs, invest in people. There are many people down and out these days. Why not put your money in small business that will employ everyday people instead of handing over more vacation money to these fat cats? Just a thought. Why is it, that humanity has become so focused on how much we can accumulate ourselves? Does this game get us through the pearly gates? It is more difficult for a rich man to enter these gates than for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle-Jesus says.
Who says small local businesses are any more scrupulous, or any more interested in something OTHER than "self-gain"?
In my experience, small businesses a lot of times are MORE ruthless, because they don't have economies of scale that allow them the luxury of financial benevolence - if they don't turn a profit, their families don't eat. Obviously it's a case-by-case, but there is nothing more inherently decent or generous about a local small business in comparison to a larger business. That's really just a question of leadership.
Wall-street's predatory tactics still lurking in the fields full of the common poverty stricken sheeple...the profiteers of the old sailboat seafaring days, no longer need ships, they have IPO's and the wealthy-good-old-boys club as a disguise...
I have no clue what you are talking about. Groupon is a privately held company and they want to become public so they can grow their business. The way you do that is sell shares to the public. That is called and IPO, initial public offering. Investment firms are hired by the company who want the IPO to get enough investors to purchase the shares. Perhaps you can invent a better process.
If people invest in a company that lost $389 million last year and $102 million in the first quarter of 2011, then that means we've got speculators who merely want to cash in on a wave. If the opening day price shoots up unrealistically, then yeah, we've got a bubble.
Investors want their money and the IPO is their payback. Lot of these companies will not survive and the retail buyers of the stock WILL pay the price at the end.
I love his statement "its different now"
Groupon and the social media sites are fads, likely the majority wont be around in 10 years. All you have to do is look at the history of our markets and business ventures. If you produce nothing its only a matter of time.
Thats why staples are around and fads are not. IPO's are as tontosh stated a way to cash out on something that probably wont last.
Tontosh is correct - someone had to front the money for these massive losses, and therefore is looking to get their money back. Which is where the IPO comes in.
As investors, why wouldnt anyone be demanding that Groupon explain, even slightly, how they plan to take this company from massive losses, to massive profits?
I've never understood why people would view a company raising 750 million in stock offerings as anything OTHER THAN MORE DEBT.
So the company has already lost 500 million, add another 750 million...and they are magically going to grow the company to EARN PROFITS enough to pay back the initial investors, the new investors, and to keep moving forward?
I can only hope that average people, dont invest in this...let the uber wealthy get fleeced. Middle class america needs to pull out of wall street, and let them scew each other over...not us anymore.
The billions that Google offered to buy Groupon are looking pretty sweet now I bet. The problem with Groupon is that smaller clones of it have been biting off bits and pieces of its business, so now it's rushing to IPO.
It's too late. Average Americans are getting screwed. Idiots who are in charge of pensions and retirement funds are investing our dollars into these risky junk investments... and like always, we are getting screwed for it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/09/business/09pension.html
Why discuss IPO's when us 'Little People' cannot participate in this farce we call the stock market until after it's run up to double or more by big investors?
The entire financial system is corrupted and is designed to enrich the rich and enslave the poor
We the people, for the people, by the people has perished from this earth.
dont invest on wall street period, and they cant take your money, period.
let them throw their money away amongst themselves.
Jessica - incorrect. Whether you invested on Wall Street or not, the reckless and immoral behavior with derivatives in the last 10 years has taken money from ALL of us, most especially those who have not received a government bailout and can't afford trickdick accountants to cook our taxes.
Sure, what you state is trivially true, but it's only a small part of the big picture.
Uh... groupons... yeah, that's the ticket. Not. Next scam, please, for consideration.
THIS TIME ITS DIFFERENT PROMISE ITS NOT LIKE THE OTHER 6 TIMES THIS HAPPENED, WE ARE SMARTER THIS TIME PROMISE
yea f'ing right. In 6-12 months, we'll all be hearing how yet another bubble went unnoticed by the financial geniuses.
riddle me this, why would anyone invest any money in a company who's only shown massive losses to date?
groupon wants to raise 750 million, and since they havent made any profits yet...why would investors expect THEY would get any money back?
I would say ones odds on getting ones investment back on this deal, are about as good as hitting the jackpot on a vegas slot machine.
Post Recession Era? Your kidding me? that's as far as I read, IDIOT!
So...
55 million in 2000 was worth more than 5 billion today? Has inflation progressed that far?
I noticed the same thing...
It's the GOP on a roll.... the banks get rich along with the GOP cronies who get in on the "initial" offering (anyone ever try to get in as a regular investor?).... they make their bundles, get their massive tax write offs and low tax rates... and we get "snookered"... Why would anyone pay massive amounts of money for something that doesn't make any money.... I don't get it?... China makes things... and we make Facebook.... something is wrong here.....
Are you kidding me Kevin? How long have you been of voting age? Do you actually think one side of the isle is a better option than the other? Grow up or they will have you scratching your head 40 years from now wondering why one side or the other has not made a difference.
Kevin my boy this is what Career Politicians do for a living.
Right on Kevin! Why does Wall Street and the entire system continue to invest money on worthless crap while the Chinese pursue commodities, production and real jobs?
You have the almost-Decade of Dumbya Bush and GOP control of Congress to thank for all this...
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Democraps are just as much in on this scam as the Republitards. The ONLY politician who wants to END THE FED
is RON PAUL.
If you want something to change, it has to start with the monetary policy. No government has ever survived long with a fiat currency, whereas many civilizations have demonstrated the benefits of "sound money".
Educate yourself on what this means, and don't get fooled into the DIVIDE and CONQUER strategy of "Democrat" vs. "Republican".
chefgl - Great question.
The answer is that China does not use a fiat currency, and as a result, despite having a centrally planned economy, they are not able to create "magic money" that allows them to artificially prop up present production for future massive inflation. As a result, their economy signals to them when an activity has a real effect on production and not just an illusory effect, and so they invest in and produce goods and services with REAL value.
Ironic, isn't it?
!
Speculation of a bubble is not news since we are already well into its development. It would be nice if the press actually understood the facts they report. In the current case a bubble has formed as the result of unfettered exuberance on the part of the uninformed. Social media may be intriguing but the business model is seriously flawed and for the most part is a polished version of the pump and dump business plans of the dot-bomb era. People will eventually wake up and realize that the current quick buck charlatans are stealing personal information, using it without permission and selling it to a very finite market. In this circumstance there is no way to justify stratopheric market caps regardless of the alleged blessing of toothless, incompetent regulators.
Amen, Jessica. The "uber" rich (also a term that won't last long) are getting rich off the middle class's feeble investing attempt. Stop giving them your money. They and our government's "Plunge Protection Team" (look it up) manipulate the market to cater to the wealthiest. The politicians need that money to run another campaign, you know. If you don't have the capability (i.e. losts of money (or paper that looks like money), and corrupt know how) you will lose eventually. You have better odds at the craps tables in Vegas, and tghey give you free drinks.
Yeah, more like the Plunder Protection Team. ;D
Ms. Linn is correct to point out that some of these social media-based Internet companies are showing a lot of promise in investors' eyes but little profit so far. In Groupon's case, it is investing heavily in marketing -- direct email, advertising, and the like -- to attract new subscribers. When that will translate into profits I'm not sure. Feel free to also read my blog on Hoover's on Groupon's IPO here www.bizmology.com
What is Poupon anyhow????? And it must be George Busch's fault LOL
Groupon is nothing but a data mining scam. I got screwed by Groupon with their FTD coupon which cost me $20 more then if I went to the normal website. They were caught in the scam and they sent out emails to people saying they would credit the difference but here I am, 3 months later and still no refund. Groupon is an unethical company that will screw their investors.
Gizmowiz is totally right.
And the answer is 'cuz the government doesn't trust you not to lose it all'. Flat out :) But he's right. only the rich can buy google at .50 cents a share. not the poor or middle-class. you get it at 120.00.
Just Say No to Stocks.
Dot Com bubble burst.
Housing bubble burst.
...Groupon bubble burst? Oh just another thing to destroy the livelihoods of millions more americans. Let's just find a another new way to throw our money away, and then get screwed over...AGAIN!
hey -- let's put Dumbya in charge again for another 8 years, and let's see just how bad BAD can get.
Bernitch - I voted for Obama, but he is no better.
He is just as much a stooge for the Fed / bankers / international criminal banking cartel / IMF / World Bank as Dumbya was.
Sure, Obama is 10x as intelligent as Dumbya was, but if you think the POTUS is calling the shots, you're just plain naive.
Instead of investing in an unscrupulous venture for your own self gain, and theirs, invest in people. There are many people down and out these days. Why not put your money in small business that will employ everyday people instead of handing over more vacation money to these fat cats? Just a thought. Why is it, that humanity has become so focused on how much we can accumulate ourselves? Does this game get us through the pearly gates? It is more difficult for a rich man to enter these gates than for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle-Jesus says.
Who says small local businesses are any more scrupulous, or any more interested in something OTHER than "self-gain"?
In my experience, small businesses a lot of times are MORE ruthless, because they don't have economies of scale that allow them the luxury of financial benevolence - if they don't turn a profit, their families don't eat. Obviously it's a case-by-case, but there is nothing more inherently decent or generous about a local small business in comparison to a larger business. That's really just a question of leadership.
Groupon is a small business and they are trying to raise more capital so they can expand and hire more employees.
hey - careful -- "person named x" knows everything!
Wall-street's predatory tactics still lurking in the fields full of the common poverty stricken sheeple...the profiteers of the old sailboat seafaring days, no longer need ships, they have IPO's and the wealthy-good-old-boys club as a disguise...
I have no clue what you are talking about. Groupon is a privately held company and they want to become public so they can grow their business. The way you do that is sell shares to the public. That is called and IPO, initial public offering. Investment firms are hired by the company who want the IPO to get enough investors to purchase the shares. Perhaps you can invent a better process.
Bottom line is people never learn, they get greedy, scams will continue far into the future.
Jesus said: "A penny saved is a Penny earned"
he may have also said "hey, i stubbed my toe in these goddam sandals."
and
"that guy over there has a really nice butt!"
you can make a mythical creature say whatever you want.