Does it make sense to burn food? That is exactly what we are doing when we decide to use corn for ethanol. What a mistake in thinking and energy policy.

I believe that a good investment would be in companies that produce food and manufacture water purification/desalinization plants. At some point potable water and food is going to become more valuable than gold.

Hey BH. there is a lot of farmer not on the government dole. Most of corporation farmers and Insurance co. that own property get the government handout. Reason they give big bucks to relection of government parties. I agree with this but, you would see much more of a increase in your food. The small farmers is a bi-plane in the era of JETS.

fly navy; using corn to make ethanol makes as much sense as using gasoline to put out a fire; 50% of American corn crop is now being used for this stupid thing, it costs more to make then it sells for, that is why the American taxpayers subsidize the makers; it also has caused beef, pork, chicken cooking oil to go up over 22& in the last 20 months; history will look back on this time and wonder if it was a case of mass insanity !

SAXON.... I feel like mass insanity is coming from all quarters these days.

I know that knowledge is power, but the more you know, the more you feel the insanity. Rather than ethanol, I'm more inclined to invest in some triple-malt. Doesn't solve the problems, but does tend to take the edge off.

Best regards to you.

@charts,

It's better to not spend our money at all, and save it. Ethenol has one cause, having our 1st party caucases in freaking Iowa every 4 years. Why does Iowa get to choose our presidental contenders every freaking time? This is how we get subsidies and ethenol. We pay through the nose for 1 state to get the lion share of govt corruption benefits.

What the heck does a poll have to do with it? Its supply and demand that governs prices...that is until you publish a poll giving the suppliers the thumbs up to raise prices...

Last time I flew over the US during growing season the government was still paying farmers to let fields go fallow...who's managing this?

Sometimes the media is just looking to cause and issue or crisis...you know its sells papers...

From Farm Subsidy Database :

In 2009, a full 60 percent of farm subsidies flowed to States represented by Senators serving on the Senate Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry.

Congressional Districts represented on the House Committee on Agriculture received 37 percent of all farm subsidies that year.

Ten states, Texas, Iowa, Illinois, Kansas, Minnesota, North Dakota, Nebraska, California, South Dakota and Missouri, accounted for 56 percent of total subsidies in 2009.

http://farm.ewg.org/summary.php

There NEVER was an era of cheap food prices. What we had was an era of postponed costs.

We are depleting our groundwater supplies. We have boosted crop production with oil-based fertilizers even as we pollute our surface waters with their runoff. We have kept fuel prices artificially low. We are moving into monocultures, such that diversity no longer offers the degree of protection our crops need against against plant predators. With GMO's, we are still at the mercy of profiteers who have done everything they can to hide the dangers of messing with genetic material. See www.seedsofdeception.com

The cost of food is actually quite high. Soon, all the "free marketeers" and "capitalists" are going to get a serious lesson in "externalities". For those who can go beyond the rhetoric, talking points, and outright BS spewed relentlessly by the Limbaughs, Becks, McConnells, Bachmanns, and their wantonly ignorant brethren, get ready for reality.

The choices really are going to come down to guns or butter, TV's or bread, SUV's or corn. Ethanol from corn is a fraud, and spare the hokum about feedstock for animals. It is a net loser. The price of ethanol does NOT follow the price of petroleum. Ethanol is subsidized by the government.

Good grief, if you have any sense about you, do some homework. Find out about externalities. Right-wingers, don't bother, nothing will penetrate your thick skulls. However, those who are interested in their own survival and just possibly the survival of their children and grandchildren, you would be well-advised to check this out. There really comes a time to pay the piper, and it is much sooner than we think.

I am truly amazed at how much misinformation and how out of touch the public is regarding agriculture. As a farmer the last 37 yrs, I have seen quite a change in the misrepresenting of agriculture. Which I believe is that the farm producers have not gotten the message out. One, the paying farmers not to farm, happen twice, in the early 80's in an effort to remove the surplus of grain because prices were half of break even, it was voluntary, you had to remove 30% to qualify for price supports, your banker made sure that you enrolled in it or you were done. Next to the fallow out there now, 1. it most likely was either to wet to plant or too dry, or had a weather event that caused the farmer to work it down, like hail, frost. The farmer may have had insurance to cover that also, that he paid for. And for the price right now, it is profitable, but not excessive, the cost have gone thru the roof for inputs, and equipment. And by the way, I believe the number is 95% of all corn is fed to cattle, by way of direct feed or through distillers grain which is the leftover from distilling. As so far as corps getting huge sums of subsidy, I would really like to know how they are doing it, as a corp farm is treating as one entity, subject to one limit of payments as in single person. which currently I believe is 40,000 for program payments. Not sure I want to own stock in corp, that will limit and restrict their practices for a lousy 40g.

The government needs to stop subsidising all industries period. Prices rise and fall, but intervention from governmental bodies exacerbates this supply demand cycle. Want some fun proof of how good intentioned laws can be super stupid. We subsidise corn crops, for lots of reasons and we did even before ethanol technology. Because of this subsidization corn syrup is the cheapest form of sweetener, and soda is cheap to make as a result. Due to climbing obesity rates many states have passed a soda tax. Let me break this down, the government is artificially cheapening an ingredient it is now over taxing on the other end. Any one else see a problem with this or am I crazy?

Saxon,

Most of our oil comes from Canada. So, if my choice is to give subsidies to people that produce corn ethanol and pay higher food prices or give Canadians money, I will chose to give Canadians money. On top of that, what do you think powers these tractors that harvest corn? I will give you a hint: Oil. Using corn ethanol does not decrease our dependence on oil while increasing the price of food and increasing the national deficit.

We should stop paying farmers to not grow food. We should stop paying farmers to water dirt, so they can keep their "water rights". I wish I had a farm where I had to do no work, incur no harvesting cost, and make money.

Actually sugarcane is a much better crop to grow to produce ethanol than corn. Corn is easier to grow in most of the U.S. but sugarcane is 6 times more efficient and can be grown in Florida. It is also cheaper to grow.

Before commenting on current events I suggest getting current facts. It has been well over 30 years since farmers where paid to fallow land. They are actually compensated to grow more. The farm subsidies have actually allowed corn to be sold at less than the cost of production and drove the creatation of the Corn Sweeteners industry.

Few US Consumers would be willing to have the price of their Happy Meals double in price. If the subsidies were cut the price of Soda and other drinks would go up, oil to fry the french fries, the cost of beef that is fed corn would go up and many other products would raise.

The system is broke, very broke. However it can not be fixed by a simple yanking universally of farm subsidies. To be clear, I raise no produce that receives subsidies and receive none at all.

It is time to ban ethanol, it is simply a hoax. Eat food, burn gas and profiteers (at the stake).

Amen to everyone decrying ethanol. It is responsible for rising meat costs and now will play a part in rising grain costs. It needs to end. Now.

It is a good idea to find more sustainable fuel sources than gasoline, but this isn't the answer. Read about the Honda Clarity. They've developed a very clever hydrogen fuel cell. Hydrogen is the most plentiful element in the universe. It currently costs as much, or a little less, than putting gas in your car. The excuses of price fluctuations would be eliminated. There would be no fear of running out. And the emissions output...H2O.

For obvious reasons oil companies aren't keen to make hydrogen fuel pumps widely available and currently they're only available in California. Oil companies would be all too happy to see these sort of innovations die. People need to speak up and demand more of these alternatives.

One quick repair (in addition to #1) can be made by stopping the stupid corn lobby and return corn to being a feed grain rather than a fattening sweetener (HFCS) and gas extender (E10,E85 or E whatever) !!!

Use sugar as a sweetener, and switchgrass or some other non-food plant for our ethanol. Of course that makes sense, so I won't hold my breath !!!

Get rid of gasahol and the food prices will go back down. It is insane to burn food, particualarly when it saves little, if any, oil.

FLYNAVY1 " Rather than ethanol, I'm more inclined to invest in some triple-malt."

I'll drink to that.

Ethanol isn't the problem, corn-sourced ethanol is. Brazil is energy independent, mostly because they invested in alternative fuels and have perfected (more or less) a switchgrass ethanol.

There is no doubt we need to extend our petroleum supplies, but using a food grain to do it (or as a sweetener) is a WRONG answer !!

J.Heron "Actually sugarcane is a much better crop to grow to produce ethanol than corn. Corn is easier to grow in most of the U.S. but sugarcane is 6 times more efficient and can be grown in Florida. It is also cheaper to grow."

Brazil is largely energy self-sufficient because they use ethanol from sugarcane to power their vehicles.

I'd like to see us invest in growing sugarcane for ethanol in friendly tropic countries that could use the jobs and economic boost, which would reduce our dependence on oil from unfriendly countries like Iran and Venezuela. This would also free up corn for food consumption, and the reduced demand for oil will reduce oil costs too.

Government screw ups at their best.

We subsidize and allow rBGH milk KNOWING it causes cancer to drive down the price of milk but when the cows produce more milk than needed, we pay the farmers to STOP milking the cows to keep the price up.

Then we wonder why we are 14 trillion dollars in debt.

So much for Monsanto and their sustainable farming practices which have been proven to be BS while making millions sick from GMO's.

Do you ever get the feeling this is a plan to kill millions? Don't laugh, there is more proof than you think on that subject.

Eat less meat and animal products. It requires more grain to feed animals for consumption than it does to feed people grains directly.

Use fuel-efficient transportation, drive slower (at least obey speed limits), and have fewer children and pets worldwide.

Fairly simple things we the people can do...

Egypt is living proof you cant eat sand, or oil. Within a week or so I would bet whatever oil we get from them will become pretty cheap in exchange for some more of ourt grain.

Environmentalists have already concluded that ethanol pollutes more than gasoline... so when do we capitalize (let the farmers do it, not the government) on trading food for oil. Seems like a simple solution. too simple for the annointed OHBLAHBLAH.

Food production--being able to feed your people, is a national security issue. This is why subsidies are given to farmers. This is not to say that subsidies are administered well, but for national security reasons it is a good idea.

Also, according to Maslows Hierarchy of Needs, food is a basic need for survival. Basic needs like this should never have sales taxes applied. In fact, if the U.S. government had to decide between subsidizing farmers and sales tax on groceries, it should give them pause to think.

I make most of my own foods anyway; breads, pasta, soups, stews etc. I grow a lot of my own veggies as well. Food is very inexpensive for me. It really doesn't take much to do it, especially when you make it in bulk, and the savings is plentiful. If you have kids, there are your helpers....it'll get them away from the xbox and show them what work it reallyall about.

Sugar cane is better for ethanol. Brazil has done this for years. Louisiana is also another state which can efficiently grow sugar cane and has done so for years.

I sympathise with drivemecrazy, there is a lot of mis-information about farming and subsidies. Yes I'm sure there is abuse and it needs to be reformed, but like anything else taking a wholesale approach and throwing it all out wouldn't be very a good idea. One thing you could do is "means test" the subsidies. Help family farmers have a chance at making a middle class living, but don't just give money away to large multi-million dollar corporations.

As for ethanol, if you view it as a first step toward developing efficient bio-fuels, it's not a bad concept. However, as it has been applied, it actually is slowing development of other more efficient bio-fuel production. Ideally this is a more diverse industry that doesn't follow a single model. As someone pointed out, sugarcane is one approach, but not so useful in the breadbasket of America. Switchgrass and other raw materials have promise, and can be grown in less fertile areas. Algae based fuels also look good and wouldn't use up farm land taken from food production. We've gotten stuck on the corn based ethanol model and it has grown to a level that indeed threatens food production. All the different bio-fuel sources require differing technologies and we haven't spent enough development in the other production models. If we're serious about alternative energy sources we need to spread funding around to different options instead of concentrating it to one approach.

I do find it interesting that many of the Tea Party are anxious to cut all these programs but don't realize that government subsidies in fact help their regions out more than others. TP queen Michelle Bachmann's family farm had collected over a quarter million in farm subsidies since the mid 90's. Palin's Alaska gets $1.84 in government funds for every dollar it pays in taxes. About $5 billion in agriculture subsidies go out to just 4 (republican) congressional districts in the Red States of Kansas, Iowa, Texas and Nebraska. These are just the top four and we're just talking about districts, not the whole States.

But all that aside, the global issue of food is much bigger than we here in the US realize. Safe drinking water is just as bad or worse. These are real threats to the lives of billions of people. It's easy to blow this off as not our problem, but we need to be aware that it quickly could become our problem.

It seems just a bit selfish and unconnected to the rest of the world when we take good food producing land and use it to fill our gas tanks. Who knows, there may come a day when we start tearing down foreclosed subdivisions and returning them to farm land!

DrivemeCrazy

I put up a link for you below if you want to see the top Farm subsidies paidout last year. Far above the $40,000 you thought that these corporate farms are receiving.

http://farm.ewg.org/top_recips.php?fips=00000&progcode=total&yr=2009&regionname=theUnitedStates

True Patriot

"In fact, if the U.S. government had to decide between subsidizing farmers and sales tax on groceries, it should give them pause to think."

I know not every state has a sales tax on food items but others do so what sense does it make for a tax payer, say in Alabama, to pay taxes that will subsidize a farmer and then turn around and pay state sales tax on food items purchased at a store?

Getreal says: "What the heck does a poll have to do with it? Its supply and demand that governs prices...that is until you publish a poll giving the suppliers the thumbs up to raise prices..."

You had it right at supply and demand, but corn farmers and other commodity suppliers are the classic example of price takers, who, by definition, have no control over prices.

@charls: the price of ethanol is correlated with gasoline/oil prices, but regional variations in that correlation range between 70% and 90%. Since correlation is not causation, since there is a wide range dependent on location, and since ethanol policy is in flux, it's not really true that ethanol prices follow oil prices. It may look like that on a graph, but the most you can say is that they are related.

@David Walker: sustainability issues aside, the biggest negative externality of ethanol in my mind the rising price of food and all the potential human costs associated with famine and political unrest. Perhaps we should start educating people about the negative externalities that result from our current political system.

@drivemecrazy: If you are a farmer and not receiving subsidies, I recommend you look into it, because farm subsidies are alive and well. The amount each farm receives may not seem like much to you, but the American public pays billions to farmers because Richard Nixon's administration decided large farming monocultures were better than small farming operations, and since no one has the political guts to stand up to the Ag industry, those subsidies persist. We are beyond issues of food security...we have outgrown the need for most farm subsidies.

I find it interesting that no one on this thread mentioned climate change. On the nation level, over the coming months or years, this little conversation we're having here will turn from ethanol/corn subsidies to famine and geopolitical instability. Above all, it's sad that we were too collectively stupid to assign the right priorities to the right issues. I guess that goes back to the negative externalities of a political system that suffers from an inability to overcome collective action problems where a vocal few dominate the silent many.

I've never heard such a bunch of uneducated misinformed fools in my entire life.

THE CORN USED FOR ETHANOL IS NOT FIT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION you twits !!

They use BIOENGINEERED BT Corn... it is NOT EDIBLE.

Ethanol is a complete waste of fuel. If you think that producing it is efficient, it takes three acres of let's say corn to produce one acre of product. Not to mention the increase of 15-20% of ethanol to gasoline is sure to cause problems in todays vehicles!

@Smc31569:

Twits? Uneducated? Really?

So then you're informed on the matter of how farmer's choose which variety of corn to grow given their land constraints and the market prices they face? Is that your claim?

I'm holding back on you because slamming you would be too easy...too cruel. Instead, I'm suggesting you check your information...your "education", if you will.

The reasons behind this in order of Repsonsibility here in the US:

1. Future trading and distribution which was highlighted by the WSJ is most responsible for high food prices here in the US.

2. Ethanol used for fuel not food. Sorry, Obama supporters it is a culprit. Sorry Obama detractors, it's not that big a culprit since the most contributing factor is not the lack of corn but the ability of speculators to drive the price up because of percieved shortages.

Every developed nation subsidizes it's agriculture as a means of being competitive and as a source of National Security. Say there is a drought in China and flooding in Australia and South East Asia; we still have food. I'd rather eat than know we weren't paying farmers not to produce.

I won't address global warming since there is no tangible evidence right now that is responsible for the current food situation.

Ah, but SMC, the problem is not that the corn being grown is inedible. It's that the land that could be used for edible corn is being used for inedible corn. Please educate yourself. However, as I pointed out, the prices here in the US are mostly affected by futures trading and add ons by distributors.

ever since we decided to go all out global( global trade, global economy), we are steadily declining.

Grrrrrrr.

The corn used for ethanol is starch corn, which is the same thing they feed to farm animals. So if it costs more to feed the animals, you end up paying more for the meat. I am a proponent of ethanol, but those ARE the facts. We should be using sugar crops for ethanol, not grains.

Andrew,

Smc is a troll, nothing more, nothing less. He/she will get on here and call names, insult, and spew crap, and never make a valid point. Eventually, you will see him/her getting suspended from the thread, as I have seen numerous times. I would advise you not to take the bait. =)

How can anyone think speculators and traders would intentionally increase the food and energy prices? Yes, the price would increase if they pay more than the food is actually worth, but there is no advantage to them doing so.

If anyone pays more than something is worth, they will have to sell it at fair value and lose money on the purchase. I can pay someone $100 for a hamburger, but I doubt I could sell it for more than $2. The only thing I would accomplish is losing $98 dollars.

Endo

Saxon,

Most of our oil comes from Canada.

============================

The biggest exporter of oil to the US is Mexico, which helps explain why our pols don't want to tackle illegal immigration (besides the fact one party likes their vote and the other likes the cheap labor). On any given day Canada is either second or third, running neck and neck with Saudi Arabia.

Hey, there is no inflation. You know, I know and so does everyone else. We know this because our government tells us so and we all know we can trust the government. Sarcasim intended.

Commodity prices continue to rise because of speculators, inflation, maybe the weather, however, the more important issue will be the cost of OIL.

On the inflation issue, ask Mr. Bernanke if his QE2 or QE3 is working yet (stimulate the economy, reduce unemployment, and stabilize prices). Uh, NO !! The Fed gets an F in meeting it's lawful mandate.

Food and gas prices high now ? Most folks would tend to believe this article, weather, paying farmers not to raise crops, or inflation is going to cause the price of food to escalate.

I believe that the food prices will go through the roof, not because of these issues, but the problems in Egypt, Tunisia, et al. Oil is going to continue to rise which will cause the prices on "everything" (including food and energy) to skyrocket because of the shipment costs. Watch the Stock Market results on the price of oil per barrel tomorrow.

We will not have to wait for Mr. Obama to get his "Go Green" (Cap and Trade System) agenda pushed through Congress to make prices "skyrocket", since the turmoil in Egypt, Tunisia, et al, is going to take care of that for him:

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqHL404zhcU
• http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kerry-picket/2008/11/02/obama-energy-prices-will-skyrocket
• http://hotair.com/archives/2008/11/02/obama-ill-make-energy-prices-skyrocket/
• http://www.impeachobamacampaign.com/obamas-decrees-cause-energy-prices-to-skyrocket/
• Et al.]

Other Administration energy/employment issues:

• EPA revoked Coal Mining Permit: http://scottystarnes.wordpress.com/2011/01/14/the-obama-administration-causing-energy-prices-to-skyrocket-obamas-epa-revoked-coal-mining-permit/
• New Coal Mining Operations Regulations: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41277893/ns/us_news-environment/
• Offshore Drilling Moratorium: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/12/obama-offshore-drilling-m_n_643568.html

There are palitability issues with distiller's grains. Pigs don't like it very well. Also, depending on how finely ground it is, the animals may have some digestion problems. It's not all it's cracked up to be.

The hog industry is having some real trouble with the affordability of corn. It's crazy, the price of pork in stores don't seem to have much in common with the price on the farm. What happens is somebody thinks they need a raise in the grocery store or packing plant. They let everyone know there's a "shortage". the price on the farm sees a small bump. The stores point to that bump and say they need to raise prices because the price on the farm has gone up. Then the public accepts the higher price thinking the poor farmer needs that much to get by. Then, they start paying the farmer less but the price stays the same in the grocery store.

Case in point: In January of $1982, hogs were selling for $44.98 a hundred weight. In January of $2009, hogs sold for $45.10. http://www.extension.iastate.edu/agdm/livestock/pdf/b2-10.pdf

I'm 52 years old, and my 4h pigs as a kid were sold to the packer for more than what hogs are going for now.

The only way they have found to survive this was to improve genetics (today's hogs have some pretty impressive genetics from selective breeding and with the implementation of artificial insemination) and scale up their facilities. Some have survived by going into specialty "organic" hogs.

ttmadison "Eat less meat and animal products. It requires more grain to feed animals for consumption than it does to feed people grains directly."

Very true. I've seen estimates that it takes 16 pounds of grain to produce one pound of beef, and it's been alleged that methane gas from livestock creates more greenhouse gases than all of the world's cars, planes and other transportation sources combined.

Also, grains are a lot healthier to eat than animal products.

But I still like an occasional steak now and then - sorry.

Ido...well written. Bernanke is a large part of the problem. Also, the article is correct to point out the increased demand for commodities in India and China are a significant factor.

Stop sending shipholds full of grain to these third World countries and we will have plenty of grain here. Let's worry about America first.

I am a farmer reading some of the comments and would like to add a few of my own.

1.Goverment payments are mostly based on a safety net. As a farmer I am recieving a small % of what we recieved when corn was under 2.00. The payments I recieved this year were about 3% of my gross. Most farmers are more concerned to have some kind of help when the price of corn or soybeans are under the cost of production than recieving a payment when the price of corn is high. You must remember that even this year alot of corn was sold at 60-70% of todays value. Most of the inputs for the 2010 crop were payed for in Dec of 2009 and almost all of the remaining expenses were pd in March. In some cases we have pd for the inputs on two crops before we have sold one. In our area very little of last years crop is unpriced.

2. Although I am no lover of Monsanto-our yields are up almost 25% in the last 10 years. Even soybeans which we used to plant from our own seed [last years crop] is really not feasible because new genetics are improving so fast.

3. Food is still dirt cheap if you stick to the unpackaged unprocessed produce and fresh meats at your grocery counter. As a farmer I it is hard to understand how we can pay a movie star millions of dollars to make a movie which translates into 50-100 a month cable bills or a pro athlete that makes millions of dollars a year and complain about a gallon of milk that a dairyman works 12-16 hrs a day to provide. The last three years most dairymen have lost money. How about your familys cell phone bill between 100-200 a month. Do you need that the phone to really survive? How about a car-it is worth almost nothing in 5-7 years and yet they have tripled in cost the last 2 decades. If ag products had done this they would be double what they are now.

4. American farmers are some of the most efficent in the world. If you haven't been to a modern farm in awhile take a little drive this fall. A average family farm can easily produce over a 100000 bu of corn with 1 or two people. We are producing this using less fuel, less fertilizer, and taking much better care of care of the land than even 10 years ago. We are using auto steer tractors that farm within the inch. We have cut chemical use and are tilling less. Animal wastes are being metered with computers so that just the right amount is being injected into the ground to produce the most bushels per acre. Farmers are getting greener all the time.

5.Ethanols process is also getting much more efficent. More gallons of ethanol from a bushel of corn. By products are being used more efficently. You can remove the alcohol from corn and still have excellant animal feed.+

6.China is becoming a huge consumer of raw products. Last fall fertilzer was scarce because it being sold to China. Scrap steel has been high for the last few years because of China. Raw aluminum and steel are much higher the last years even when our country has been in a recession because of China. Chinas population is demanding better diets , automobiles and other things that we take for granted.

Either people can't see the forest for the trees, or they just won't face the fact that "OVERPOPULATION" is root cause of this and many of our problems we face regarding survival of our species!!!!

HOW CAN WE STOP OVERPOPULATION?!? That's what we should be discussing here!!!!!!!!!!!.....Stopping religion, with it's anti-abortion and right to life policies and preachings would be a good start!!!!

We're on a disastrous HEAD-ON collision course with nature if we don't stop OVERPOPULATION!!!!!

Farmer Kent,

Go to Northern Nevada sometime. Then come back and tell me farm subsidies do not support watering dirt.

White Wolf,

You need to check your numbers again. We import nearly 2x more oil from Canada as we do from Mexico. Here are some numbers (Thousands of Barrels Per Day) from the DoE: Crude Oil (YTD 2010): Canada 1963; Mexico 1132, Saudi Arabia 1081. Total Petroleum (YTD 2010): Canada 2516; Mexico 1272, Saudi Arabia 1094.

The gov't likes to boast about the benefits of ethanol, but in truth it is a complete waste. More energy gets used in the creation of the crops used to formulate ethanol than is derived from the actual ethanol end-product, itself. It's like using a Bigfoot truck to tow your Prius to a car show.

In fact, almost all forms of renewable energy suffer great shortfalls, with the exception of two: solar and wind.

Ethanol from corn is a waste. It's common knowledge that it's wasteful and inefficient. Ethanol also is not good for the rubber fittings in a lot of motors. Solar and wind is good but it's not without problems. Raising the price of food is going to starve poorer countries. Policies here are driving farmers out of business and benefiting Monsanto and Archer Daniels, NOT GOOD. We need to protect our small farmers at all costs. The answer to our energy problems is actually very simple. Use less, and have lots of alternatives. Don't remain dependent on government or big oil. We need to build housing that uses natural resources, with redundant backups. We need to become energy independent, all countries should, and cut out the middlemen. Do not count on government to help, because they are not. They will pay lip service, Obama will make pretty speeches, but at the end of the day, we are on our own. Get ready for the storm because it's coming.

Farmer Joe -- THANK YOU!! I'm glad to have somebody on here representing farmers in a common sense fashion.

To whoever it was that said that cattlemen can use ethanol byproducts the same as straight corn is delusional. Cattlemen use corn to increase the amount of energy in feed (that's calories to you). Whole corn is about 75% TDN (Total Digestible Nutrients, a rough estimate of energy). That comes from the starches that get used up in ethanol production. Byproducts have much less TDN but high protein (you can't use too high of protein, their GI flora go crazy). Also, you can't use byproduct same as whole corn because the sulfur content is higher as a percentage (too much sulfur = death). So trying to say that ethanol doesn't hurt the cattle industry is patently absurd. This doesn't even approach the inefficiency of ethanol production from corn. Better to invest in cellulosic ethanol from switchgrass... research shows it produces more ethanol and you're able to produce more biomass with switchgrass than corn.

AHHH, Rabble rabble! The shortsighted economics (and history) hacks think farm subsidies are crimes against humanity! We are wasting our money by spending our money *inside* the USA on maintaining a food production capacity larger than we need for a given year of decent crop yields.

(some years goes by, world events and weather greatly depresses food supply)

AHHHH, rabble rabble! The shortsighted economics (and history) hacks think the government being caught unprepared by food shortages and not being able to ramp up the farm industry fast enough to save lives are crimes against humanity!!!

And so, class, what is the number one commodity crisis that causes extreme civil destabilization throughout history, perhaps the single most dangerous thing to have a shortage of? Food! And what can a government do to maintain an industry that has excessive capacity as a kind of "insurance" if you will? Oh Yea, spend a small fraction of the budget, about 0.0072, and pay for food production we DON'T NEED. Shocking notion, that.

My first gut feeling in seeing the increase in food prices is extreme hatred for Wall Street giants like Goldman Sachs speculating in food staples such as wheat, corn and rice to increase food prices for everyone else for the sake of their boundless GREED.

The Great American Bubble Machine, by Matt Taibbi, Rolling Stone:http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405

Matt describes Goldman Sachs as a gigantic predator squid with a tentacle into all speculation on the planet earth. As a way to balance its attack on world economies, GS wanted to deal in tangible goods as well as derivatives and other intangibles. What better way to impact inflation for everyone else than to speculate in basic food crops that are on the list of ingredients in many preferred food items off of the shelf.

As a consequence of their speculation, food prices world wide have increased. This has made addressing world starvation much more difficult. Remember those pictures of starving children? Unbelievably these greedy speculators couldn't care less about world starvation. All they care about is huge corporate profits and huge bonuses.

GS is also causing inflation with gas and oil prices with their speculation in oil futures.

GS is incorporated in both America and the UK and got bailed out in both countries. They were a main factor in collapsing the American, UK, European, Greek, Spanish and (possibly) the Chinese economies. They are way, way, way too big to let fail and it is time they get divided up and removed from everyone else's lives as the greed factor causing inflation for everyone else.

Corn-based ethanol is a miserable failure as an alternative to oil. It is one of those "awful solutions" which is almost as bad or worse than the original "problem". And yet the current administration included - keeps plodding down the same path - among the cheerleaders on the bandwagon.

As already pointed out not only does CORN take more WATER to grow (further depleting the water tables) - it also takes more FERTILIZER. Which studies have shown are being washed down into the Mississippi River system and out into the Gulf of Mexico, creating an increasing DEAD ZONE.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22301669/ns/us_news-environment/

(notice that the story was written 3 YRS AGO) google for even more current articles on the DEAD ZONE and the IMPACT on the fishing, crabbing & shrimping industries in the Gulf!

It does not matter whether the corn itself is edible. For EVERY ACRE PLANTED IN CORN FOR ETHANOL - one less acre is planted in ANOTHER FIELD CROP - wheat, rice, SOY, barley, etc, even hay & alfalfa. Was no one paying attention when the cost of a loaf of bread first went up or even the cost of your favorite pizza?! WHEAT PRICES increased as a direct result of corn-based ethanol. Even more disturbing was the surging price of RICE and the dire hunger in Africa!

http://www.cleveland.com/world/index.ssf/2010/06/surging_food_costs_hit_poor_na.html

America used to be the largest exporter of SOYbeans to China, BEFORE corn-based ethanol became the newest woefully MISGUIDED fad to hit the markets. The above (referenced) article notes that many South American countries have taken over the void. AND now all thanks to corn-based ethanol production in the US - BRAZIL has become the new #1 exporter of soybeans to China - unfortunately & IRONICALLY at the expense of the Amazon Rainforest which is being even more rapidly CLEAR CUT in the race to plant more soy!

Others have already touched on the actual COST to produce ethanol in the first place and the use of machinery (which hello does not run on hot air!). To be sure - we need to decrease our dependence on foreign oil. However perhaps we should have seriously considered CONSERVATION and other measures first - rather than rushing to assure we could continue to fill up the hulking gas guzzlers at the pumps on the cheap (or fairly reasonably) . . . while "pretending" that we were actually going "greener"!!

One truly has to wonder if the powers that be - live with a bag on their heads? "CLEAN Green Energy" is NOT and never was corn-based ethanol. We also have to accept that we live in a GLOBAL WORLD and EVERYTHING has consequences. We ALL have to be responsible stewards of the earth and her FINITE resources. When one country is a big hog - the rest of the world suffers . . . and ultimately we all end up paying the price. At this rate - China will gobble us up and already Brazil is one of the fastest growing economies - yet neither can feed their own populations. There is already growing unrest about food prices in South America. The US needs to STOP the production of corn-based ethanol (or at the very least phase it out completely). AND instead start focusing on much less DESTRUCTIVE - not to mention more globally STABLE and environmentally sounder - ALTERNATIVES.

The ramifications of continuing to be ostriches - is already looming on the horizon.
Hopefully we won't have to wait for the rioters at the gates before we wake up & smell the fires already burning. Ditch corn-based ethanol NOW . . . before our Country goes up in flames, too!!

okay getting down off the soapbox now

Instead of Aid for Africa and other countries, maybe all the celebs should get together and do some Aid for America for a change.

Corn: eaten by people and animals. The human pancreas does NOT create the enzyme needed to digest corn. Thus, we should not eat it. Blood type O is not to eat corn. Blood type B is not to eat corn. Corn is neutral to blood type A. Blood type AB is not to eat corn. That means type A blood is the only group of people that can eat corn and not have it do something bad to the body.

Corn that is laced with fungus can not be fed to people, but it can to cows. The fungus (mold) goes to the fat of the animal, where it stays. When people take that steak or ground meat and cook it and eat the fat, they get a whopping dose of mycotoxins, that the body reacts to by creating cholesterol and clogging the arteries. Our bodies know how to to take care of the problem, but the medical community for the most part wants to lessen the creation of cholesterol, instead of cutting out the corn-fed beef.

The American public is largely ignorant as to what food does to a body. I wonder how soon before we figure this out and take action against the growers of food we can't eat.

Sanscience,

Tell me how it is beneficial for farms to get paid to water dirt.

Tell me how it is beneficial for farms to get paid to turn food in to fuel.

Not all farm subsidies are bad, but not all farm subsidies are useful for anything other than bribing constituents.

Endo:

I think it is the dirt they are not watering that is more of an issue. The *theory* is that if the government outright bought food that it intends to do nothing with to maintain a production capacity in excess of good harvest years, that would have very strong market distortion effects, and having warehouses full of grain to maintain would be expensive and politically delicate. This is somewhat done via production of military style rations and food aid to the world, but it is limited in scope.

Instead, subsidizing for the presence and maintenance of fields that are in good working order, just not productive, avoids those expenses and issues.

Being paid to turn food into fuel is another *theory* project. That to start an industry first the government must subsidize it to attract investment and quality venturists. I, however, suspect it might be more of a political bargaining chip than any actual interest in creating a large industry. Even so, if those excess capacity fields are used in a secondary purpose to grow "non-food" crops that are feed-stocks for fuel production... it is hard to say how that is going to turn out. I suspect we are less than a decade away from major production of bio diesel from agricultural waste and sewage, so it might fast become a non-issue.

Good.

Next energy prices, get those high enough even gluttonous Americans will eat smarter and use energy smarter. Though corporations will never let that happen, they want us dependent on the corporate tit, even if they must control government to do it.

Do you not remembeer the song, You haven't seen nothing YET? Like GB said be prepared. Buy now or pay alot later.

keith.. buy a lot of what?

elvis payne....Food Storage....just type it in your search box....here's one:

http://www.foodinsurance.com/index.php

Oh God Glenn Becks crap no thanks.

Try Amazon....they sell stuff too.....what the heck did you think GB stood for in keith n's post ????.....P.S. Don't come knocking on my door when your hungry and out of food.....

God says live for today not tomorrow ..tomorrow will take care of itself......gods words.

If you think food prices are high - visit Europe where the food cost is about double what it is in the United States. Why? Because they have very inefficient farming - small postage stamp farms. The governments subsidize the farmer to keep them on the farm (yes with taxpayer dollars) because there are no jobs for them if they leave the farm - they have 2-3 times as many farmers as would be needed if the fields were bigger and farming was more efficient. So their taxpayers end up paying twice - once for the subsidy and then for the resultant higher prices in the food market. After you have traveled around the world and bought food in some thirty or forty countries you will realize that America has the lowest food cost in the world. Join me on my next trip and you too will see truth.

cant afford it.

elvis payne....Actually the Bible says "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Matthew 6:34
It doesn't say anything about not planning.....

God also says ""If a man will not work, he shall not eat."

2 Thessalonians 3:10

that is true ..........yes read his words again i only added not planning .....the only thing he wants us to plan is our hearts not earthly things .....those things will pass away.....when he says not to worry what does that mean Mike.does that mean to stock up no.......they did the same thing in the year 2000 remember.

Kent;

Europe indeed has higher food prices, but a lot of that is because they import a very large amount of it. They just don't have enough land to feed everybody. Having been involved in European agriculture and studying European buying habits, I've come to the conclusion the system works very well and the people are mostly happy with it. They shop differently than we do. They shop more often, buy much of their food from local street markets, or specialty shops (bakery products, cheese and meats, especially) and don't eat as much pre-prepared or packaged food as we do. They pay more, but overall, I think they have a higher quality diet.

Hey ELvass..

your funny, but I thought it was " God helps those who help themselves", not sit on your A$$ and do nothing and all will be provided, unless your praying to Obama, then I could see your hang up.

that saying is from Shakespeare I believe I will have to look it up...but not from the bible..........dumb.dumb.JIM>

You guys are arguing on a food thread about what Santa, oops sorry god said...you would laugh if this was in a history book about rain dancing.

Chuck: Your post is correct. Also the europeans don't rely on the chemicals and processing that we allow here, Most eurpoeans are into healthy, local foods, moderate if any processing and generally are healthier than americans.

As to food prices, what wasn't mentioned were the commodities brokers, they buy huge amounts and hang on to them, manipulating prices so they can get the highest return on the money. The farmers are at the bottom of the price chain when you consider they have to pay for the production from planting to harvesting. It is the middle men who control price more often than the effects of the weather.

When California moved to remove ethanol from their gas, the farmers in Iowa were all over the government to stop it, and they succeeded.

Really ? You think the cost of food is expensive in Europe ? Well explain to me then why the cost of ORGANIC milk in the UK is only $2.87 a 2 litre jug as opposed to $4 a half gallon here. http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1296435948223

Explain to me why we're paying $4 a loaf for whole grain bread and they're paying about $1.19 a loaf

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1296435948223

Why do I pay over $3 for a pkg of cherry tomatoes at WalMart and they pay $1.90 ?

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1296435948223

I've been to Europe. Food is CHEAPER there....REAL food... fresh bakery, dairy, veggies and meat.

mygirl, your the only one who has pointed out the true cause of the increase in food. It is wall street manipulation. I can drive over to a friends house and order 1/2 beef for $4 per lb, $3 an lb if I take a whole cow, and thats cut and wrapped. And the farmer and the butcher all make money.

Places like Tyson, Hormel, SuperValu, etc order in bulk. They pay less per lb than what the farmer gets on the open market (the farmer takes the contract cuz its guaranteed), but you dont see that savings in the market as a consumer, that savings is passed as profit to the shareholders.

We saw what happened with milk prices when the government (under Bush) ended the milk subsidy. The market took over and via speculation milk increased by around $1 a gallon. And my best friends neighbor almost lost his farm. That increase you paid on the shelf did not end up in his pocket. He lost the subsidy and wall street reaped the profit. The subsidy was .10 cents per gallon.

Get wall street out of the commodities markets like it was before 1990. Make the traders be in the food business. Let General Mills bid against Kraft foods for wheat as it once was. Goldman Sachs has no business influencing the price of food (and they are).

Mygirl and RainD: You're on the right track here. Cargill bought huge amount of wheat just after the Russians announced the export embargo and it added several billion to just their last quarter profits, alone. They will just dribble it out to keep the prices high.

Wall street owning a large portion of the contracts has fundementaly altered the grain markets. It is becoming less and less based on actual agricultural conditions and more on price of oil. We are only scrtaching the surface in these comments, but a change in how we look at food and how it is marketed necessary if we don't want it to wind up like the oil industry.

Can we tell Mike to stop with the "god thing" Jesus also said see the birds they want not but what the hell has this to do with the conversation - I weary of the Bible thumpers -

Fact of the matter huge corporations who have driven out the small farmers should not get subsidies - Michelle Bachman's family should not get subsidies, you should not get subsidies "not to grow" - your fences and wells and broodmares should not get tax deductions - having had a farm I know full well the tax codes and benefits that were available, this has got to stop and yes we took advantage of them as does too many undeserving people.

The food insurance really is a good back up. I decided a few weeks ago to order it. People have to take the first step to help themselves. Even if you don't need it in the next 5 years, you will be glad you have it if you do wind up needing it. I don't care who advertises it.

It is actually the American public that let Wall Street and the big Corp into the food business. When you all started to buy pre-packaged goods because you had no time to shop. Or pre-made pancakes and other boxed items because you have no time to cook in an oven-except a microwave oven.

When I shop I go to the cheese store for my cheese and local made ravioli's. I go to the vegetable store for my local vegetables. I go to the buthcer for my meat. I go to the supermarket for soda and cleaning products.

You let them in and now you complain. You wanted the fast paced hectic lifestyle and you got it. It truly is a market driven economy.

bklynj

Food processing companies are not the problem.

This meant that Farmer Jones could agree to sell his crop in advance to a trader for £10,000 as he had done every spring previously.

But under the new rules, the contract could be sold on at ever-inflated prices to speculators who believed the value of the crop - and therefore the derivative - would go up.

For more on what really happened:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1296068/Trading-death-Rapacious-bankers-making-fortunes-forcing-price-food-leaving-millions-starve.html

You are paying between 20-50% more for food simply due to the actions of financial sector manipulations on prices.

@elvis payne:

"God says live for today and don't worry about tomorrow"?

Seriously? If that's true then God gave you some seriously bad advice and you should consider looking elsewhere for answers to real-world problems.

So is that why religious people stick their head in the sand when it comes to issues like climate change? If what you say is true this is very good news, because the idea of everlasting abundance given the reality of global population and economic growth is demonstrably false. It's so obviously false that any reasonable person with an ounce of common sense will agree that it is false, and I don't feel the need to explain it. If that doesn't make sense to you or if you don't agree, then that truly is your problem and not mine.

Barbara Adams Jackson.....Relax, would ya...Mike was replying to elvis...on the topic of food storage.

And if you think the Bible is just a book of stories written by men, fine. There are "stories" about storing food in abundant times and being prepared for lean times....I think it was good advice then as it is now.

Ethanol has been a factor in all food items containing corn and corn syrup. Unfortunately, Big Ag weaselled their way into having MTBE banned in gasoline at the same time the ethanol became the alternative. Specifically CORN ethanol became the one alternative. Prime crop land the equivalent size of California was set aside for growing ethanol corn. That displaced alot of other food crops being grown.

That leaves us with higher food prices and the alternatives to corn ethanol struggling to get established. Ethanol derived from cellulose is much more promising than corn ethanol, but now there seems to be no way to dislodge Big Ag out of the middle of this situation. Cellulose ethanol can be generated from crops such as native perennial grasses that can grow year after year on non prime crop land with little effort to irrigate, fertilize or manage the soil. The prime crop land can all go back to food production with marginal wild lands used for cellulose ethanol. Crops such as Shavegrass are drought, insect and disease resistant, grow on the same land year after year without heavy tilling, put down deep roots and improve soil conditions and provide wildlife habitat.

Jeanette-767450...Exactly right. Food "insurance" is no different than any other kind of insurance. Nobody buys Life Insurance, Accident Insurance, Flood Insurance, etc. hoping they are going to use it.

As the cost of food (and everything else) rises and the value of the Dollar keeps declining, that $10.00 loaf of bread may not be that for away. It's just me and my son here and I have enough food"insurance" for 3 meals a day for 2 1/2 years for us. And it's paid for. So is my house.

Little reported dirty secret during the great depression: people were starving, lining up at soup kitchens, the price of a loaf of bread was a nickel. FDR and his economic advisers decided that there was too much food which was why prices were low. They systematically went into farms and seized the crops, mandated health inspections forcing farmers to bring in their livestock for said inspections and most of the cows were destroyed (TB) ditto the hogs and citrus and other crops. This wasn't done to protect public health but rather to control the markets and keep prices artificially high.

America, if left alone in terms of market manipulations and government regulations could feed itself and the world. There are several dirty little secrets about food price manipulation nationally and internationally

If as some say here the corn used for Ethenol is not corn for consumption...then, is that land/water that is used for Ethenol corn land/water that could be used to grow crops that could be used for feeding Americans or others?

There are mainly two types of corn, sweet corn and field corn. Sweet corn is what you buy canned, frozen or on the cob. Field corn is mostly used for animal feed, ethanol (both for fuel or drinking alcohol), ground into corn meal, or made into corn oil, corn syrup, or corn sweeteners. Over 95% of corn grown in America is field corn.

Tiny,

The land still can't be used for both field corn and something else. Land used for field corn to make ethanol could be used to grow real food. The same land can't be used to grow two things at the same time.

They ARE controlling the market.

Obama did a end-run around Congress by pushing NEW EPA emissions standards this Nov and Dec. The regulations will result in increased costs for everyone, businesses and consumers alike. Food cost is just reacting to the cost of ENERGY.

The purpose of the new emissions standards is to greatly increase the price of energy in America leading to $8 or more for a gallon of gas and electricity bills which will “necessarily skyrocket” according to Obama. This may lead to increased energy efficiencies, but it will also force businesses to lay off millions of workers during a time of 10% unemployment (and 20% underemployment) to pay for higher energy costs and will ultimately transform what has been a terrible recession into another Great Depression. see http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/21600.

increased costs for everyone\

Good, energy is too cheap in the USA anyway, no one earns it they just get it. Cheap energy, cheap food makes us waste more then we use. Portion sizes and waist lines are out of control, so are commutes, car sizes etc...the sooner we realize that the better.

As for Obama...the corporate centrist...who stocked the FDA with Mansanto execs? Get off your partisan high horse, corporations own both parties.

On top of increasing emission standards for the US, he is opening the highways to Mexico's trucking industry, allowing them to haul all the way to the Canadian border.

These truckers do not have to have the same safety standards that American truckers do, and they do not have to follow the same "hours on/off" that American drivers do.

Hey do you really trust the A-H in Washington to solve anything. Last week they hardly could decide who was go to sit next to each other A-H for the lame speech from our President.

keith ever sense Cheney went in secret and talked private with the oil giants we have been going down hill.

California fields are left fallow due to lack of water. Yet it is very difficult to get permits to build even a small reservior to catch seasonal runoff. More reserviors would allow MORE summer water use without pulling so much water from streams.

RESERVIORS KEEP WATER IN STREAMS IN THE CRITICIAL SUMMER MONTHS AND SAVE FISH! Retaining 3% of winter runoff would make a big difference in the summer.

elvis,

Having government step in at a drop of the hat is doing the country no good....IMHO I think that it is high time that we let free enterprise have a chance, even if it means tightening the purse strings for a while.

Shar:

Those streams you want dammed provide desperately needed nutrients to ecosystems downstream. Those streams are nature's hatcheries.

Take a look at the dams on the Colorado River. They have already silted up to an extent that they store only a fraction of their rated capacity. The dams in California are STILL NOT paid for.

Please, read "Cadillac Desert" and understand how serious our water issues are. Right now, California is overdrafting groundwater at the rate of 4-million acre feet annually - that's four Folsom Dams, and Folsom no longer has its original capacity, thanks to siltation. (Didn't you ever wonder where the coffer dam for Auburn Dam went? It's sitting at the bottom of Folsom Lake.) Yet there are many, many water users in northern California whose water is not metered and the waste in unbelievable. Simple conservation measures would relieve an enormous burden on overtaxed water supplies.

BUT, we want what we want, when we want it, and by God, it'd better be cheap.

Alice:

For an example of how private enterprise handles this situation, go check on Corporate America's reliance on government crop subsidies. For a truly frightening insight, go see how they have utterly destroyed California's Central Valley, all the while refusing to pay their contractually-obligated payments for water. Salyer, Boswell. Check 'em out. If you can still defend private enterprise in the world of water, then you truly just don't get it.

Price controls have never worked. They just create blackmarketing. Review the history of price controls in WWII and when Nixon tried them.

Maybe some one will address the real problem. There are just to many people on the planet. NOT.

government now is the time to step up,,,, yeah right, like we need them more in our life telling us what to do. elvis,, bible thumping wont work, dont plant ur food 4 tomorrow who cares? but dont go looking for help either cause u didnt help ur self feed ur self. i grow a garden every year then freeze or can it. sure its alot of hard work and time but hey, i can feed me and mine.

God will take care of me like he did with the children of Israel when they left Egypt........god poured manna from heaven and he feed them.carmie

well good for you. enjoy that. as for me, i'll still eat what i grew and will still be alive.

They ARE controlling the market.

Obama did a end-run around Congress by pushing NEW EPA emissions standards this Nov and Dec.

Controlling air quality and pollution are hardly market controlling methods, and your claim is typical corporate propaganda anytime someone moves to make them responsible. If anything, the droughts and flooding around the world indicates that more needs to be done because otherwise we are looking at great castrophe.

Good, energy is too cheap in the USA anyway, no one earns it they just get it. Cheap energy, cheap food makes us waste more then we use. Portion sizes and waist lines are out of control, so are commutes, car sizes etc...the sooner we realize that the better.

Yes gov mandated proportions and alloted energy times are much much better.. We deserve waiting in line for hrs, just for one scoop of green mush that has to last throughout the day.. I cant believe theres people out there, in this world who think like you..

Sam,

What are you talking about. Our government subsidies (you know the socialism you are afraid of) is what is keeping the prices down so that we consume consume consume. If you really support capitalism then get the subsidies out of the market and let the prices rise, rising prices means people will waste and consume less. Ohhhh I see you only support free markets when its about profit not conservatism.

ELVIS PAYNE

No! we are better off without this administration interfering with our food. Just look at their record. Obamma thinks giving the food away (with preference to ,well you know who) is the way to fix the problem! watch that debt ceiling obama!!!

no, no, no it's all Bushes fault

They are already buying food. in Minnesota they plan on 6 Billion dollar in Soybeans.

Who the hell would want US corn? The rest of the world saw how obese it made everyone in the US! Nobody wants a morbidly obese population, especially one that resembles the obese and smelly US Consumer.

The Chinese were buying soy - and now more corn - with some of their reserves. But our farmers reduced the available soy by converting to corn production - to chase the almighty subsidy dollar.

Wrong, Imoen. Chile is happy to have a morbidly obese population, although is doesn't resemble the obese and smelly US consumer. Still it is getting there. Obesity begins in girls at about ten, in boys a bit later (due to athletics, mostly futbol) and it continues in adulthood. Look at photos of the miners' families during last year's crisis. The Ministry of Health is just beginning to become alarmed.

Moreover, smoking is more prevalent than in the USA, and bans on smoking in restaurants and offices are beginning to draw the ire of smokers. History repeats itself.

It called starvation.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north484.html

Stages of Democracy......it always murders itself.

Look up Malthusian theory - about 200 years old. Malthus postulated that starvation would be one means of controlling population growth - and war, pestilence, drought etc.

It won't be starvation, despite Malthus, the war and pestilence will be stronger controls.

Mass starvation worked just fine for Mao..

" the regime killed at least 45 million people in what he calls the greatest man made famine the world has seen"

http://www.projo.com/opinion/contributors/content/CT_walden20_09-20-10_DCJOHB8_v10.298758f.html

So...I think we should raise the cost of exported grains and lower it here in the U.S., just like OPEC does to the world with oil. I can tell you one thing - we may not be able to run our cars without oil...but no one else lives without food. Which do you prefer...getting rich over getting hungry?

Thank you Mike, I glad some one on this site has actually read history, and comprehended it. Is it me, or does the majority of the people in our society live with their head in the sand.

pay no attention to the man behind the teleprompter. nothing to see.

Even a 1st grader understands the concept that if the world population doubles in the next 60 years, which is very possible, and food production is reduced, lets say 20%, due to lack of fertile land that can produces crops and lack of water to grow food then you have a major problem.

PLEASE, can we get serious about worldwide proactive education on family planning and providing proactive cheap birth control options( including more R&D money as well to find more options), to as many people as possible, esp. those that want it but can't get it.

I realize this takes time and requires breakthroughs to allot of cultural and religious barriers but the sooner we start taking this matter seriously the better chance we have to have a planet we all want to live on in the future.

Seriously, how do you expect to tell the people that are having the most kids to keep it zipped when they haven't even invented the zipper there...sheeesh.

I read an article a while ago that some group went to teach the men how to put on a condom and they used a banana to demonstrate.....what they found out later was the men put the condom on a banana...then went into the hut and had more kids.

Perhaps they thought that bananas made women pregnant, besides, yellow or green are not skin colors (despite what some may think) so they may not have made the connection

You have huge multinational food companies telling farmers that they need to farm townships of land and the cost of their input in fertilizsers and pesticides keep going up and not only that they want the farmer to buy seed from them every year. It used to be that a farmer was able to keep their seed for the next year but these mutlinationals have made it so that the farmer cannot use their seed unless they buy their chemicals. The commodities market is just for hedgers and speculators which inflate the price of food. This is not what Adam Smith had in mind. Evil bastards all of them.

Remember farmers only get 20% of the price you paid at the store for their effects. And have to pay for their expense out of that, wihich is taxes, propert, labor, fuel, insurance, seed, chemicals. plus many others.

And with ethanol you can pay your mechanic tripple the price and/or put in a new engine that the corn oil will ruin for you.

So, the corporate ass kissing Republicans are as innocent as day old kittens and now they are trying to valiantly save us from everything that they had nothing to do with? AC, if you think the Republican Party has been a friend of the family farmer ,you've been eating your fertilizer again.

People need to STOP buying processed frankenfoodcrap for one thing. And you need to buy DIRECTLY from your local farmer... NOT the supermarket. With your local farmer you will get fresher, safer, more nutritious food and support your community. Screw BIG Agri/Monsanto and GMO frankencrops. Wise up. BIG AGRI is the one putting us under and raising prices.

You better go back and see the price of oil in 2008. I suppose you can see for yourself that was a major peak in prices. Post elections until now prices trended down. Yep blame it on Obama, it had nothing to do with world supply and demand. Maybe you should be our leader everything will be perfect. World Peace, all people will never be hungry and you can be our savior.

keep buying monsantos goods, franken food is goooood for u. and the way that company is monopolizing the farming industry must be just fine. i love living in 1984, we were never at war with east asia, we were always at war with east asia....

I have 6 tonnes of rice sitting in storage and we buy almost ALL of our food from the other local farmers. Wheat products are seldom on our table, but I now farm in Asia, not the USA.

But even in Asia the cost of ENERGY is driving the cost of EVERYTHING UP. Fuel and fertilizer are our largest farming expenses. As Farmers we pay NO TAXES, because we feed the people..

Everything is being converted to LNG, this is being controlled by the Gov, so people can still cook/eat. The World market for LNG is has not kept up with the INCREASING SUPPLIES and the prices continue to DROP. This is expected to continue for the next 5+years, until the World conversion to LNG, really kicks-in.

Mean while the USA is converting to EV and High Speed trains, that just use MORE Energy. Ha! Ha! Yes the World is laughing at the USA energy policies...

Jackie, actually the farmers that grow corn, beans and wheat are making more money (finally). My family owns a small farm in IL. You're right that Big Ag has created a situation that has driven out many small farmers, and the land has consolidated mostly to a few big operators. We were able to hang on only because we've had very little debt.

Yes, buy organic, and buy locally if you can. And yes, people should start to grow their own food (or at least learn how)... our food supply has become very industrial and entirely dependent on fossil fuels and perfect weather. Any disruption in the flow of oil or any major droughts or floods caused by climate change could drive food prices extremely high or make food scarce. As a farmer, I do not think our food system is very resilient to any of these potential challenges. Consumers be prepared for possible future food crisis', even here in the US.

JACKIE, thank you for sharing.... I will definitely pass this on, especially to my best friend who is a grain farmer.

@Jackie-355788

A friend of mine farms corn, wheat and soy beans in Michigan. At least he did until it was clear to him to grow more corn. The price of a bushel of corn DOUBLED in value when ethanol became subsidized. He quit growing wheat altogether and dropped his production of soy beans by half, and grew more corn. He nearly doubled his income. Smart for him, bad for food prices.

Now you know why a loaf of the cheapest bread is nearly three dollars a loaf.

Tim speaks the truth. Since ethanol became subsidized, we have cut wheat exports in half. People are hungry because of it.

While it may not be our job to feed the world, it is the world's job to feed the people and we are interfering.

Well we can all raise our gardens and buy local produce all we want, but, I'm not sure this will see us through as a nation. This isn't the 1950s. The nations that will find the better solutions to many of the worlds common problems, will be the nations that successfully find a 'responsible' blend of free enterprise and collective programs. Capitalism alone will not sustain America into the future.

Hey Jackie 355788, your comments , however well intentioned, are simplistic and wrong. I am a farmer and you would probably consider me a corporate farmer because I farm over 160 acres. We are a family farm as is the vast majority of farms in the US. If you want to go to food rationing and starvation then go back to the garden in every back yard and the so called organic growing which is terribly inefficient and expensive because of the lack of production potential. In this country the average family expense for food is 6%, that is all we spend on food on a average basis to eat like kings. One of the resons we have hIgher food prices is a result of this governments lack of vision on an energy policy to produce more of our natural resources such as oil and coal and to go nuclear and produce more natural gas, insltead we go towards a feel good wind and renewable energy policy which is a sham and a ponzi scheme. This has driven up the costs of transportation and all other costs associated in producing our safe and abundant food supply. I suggest that since only 2% of our population actually is in production agriculture that the rest of America should go to a real farm and talk to a real farmer who is a tremendous steward of the land. See what it takes to grow these crops and then you might understand what it takes to keep this country well fed. Your comment about mulitnational coprorations is from left field and has no merit in general terms. The USDA has always been about cheap food and fibewr for the country and its policies will always be about trying to keep food costs as low and they can make then be, I would suggest to everyone , even this is kind os off topic to go out and read POWERHUNGRY, the myth behind the green energy. This will chill you in what direction we are going as a country in regard to energy production and the future our kids are going to have if we do not wake up. Thanks

Amen Brother:

You can still get cheap heroin and computers. As long as the Chinese stay subservient to the US, we will get cheap computers forever and ever.

The heroin from Afghanistan is the cheapest and best!

Tim...there is no such thing as the best heroin....Perhaps that explains your economic problems....along with a few of your other problems...

There was an article on corruption in the big charities sponsored by the likes of Bono and Bill Gates. No one knew where the money went, there was no accounting in place to track the money. In Sudan and Darfur mountains of food sat rotting because there was no distribution network in place to get the food to the starving people and those who tried were often shot and much of the food that made it to the people did so via the blackmarket (stolen goods)

Ideological goodness met graft, greed and corruption reality.

As to using food to stop war, how exactly?

All focus should be on MANAGEMENT/DISTRIBUTION.

Connect the dots .

Who can monitor these actions ?

Hopefully, Corn Ethanol will go by the wayside. Everyone knows that fuel from corn is expensive and a waste of production acreage which would be better used for food production. The future will eventually take us away from fossil fuels and man made replacements. The next generation electric vehicles, with much improved battery efficiency, will take much of the load from gasoline and diesel powered drive trains for everything except large trucks. The quicker we turn our backs on OPEC and EXXON/MOBILE and their ilk, the better.

The World is converting to LNG/CNG for their mas-transit needs. They have been doing this for the last TWO Decades... Qatar is using jet fuel made from LNG... Both Gas and Diesel engines can be converted to LNG/CNG, resulting in less pollution and maintenance cost. Conversions that the average mechanic can easy do and maintain.

Thailand has almost finished converting their public transit systems to LNG, even their tuk tuks. Now with LNG filling stations across the country, the average citizen is converting & buying LNG/CNG vehicles. Even Cambodia has LNG/CNG filling stations...

The USA is sitting on a 500+year supply of hydrated methane in their continental shelf, plus the NG in shale and other deposits...

..........and it will ALL be controlled by the OIL Companies so we all can pay just them for the next one hundred years and continue to enriching them even more.

The oil companies have had a real sweetheart deal almost since they started pulling oil from the ground a hundred years ago. Their "Deals" struck with the government agencies which allowed them to extract oil from Federal Lands for "nominal fees" made them Billions and Billions while the rest of us suckers were "Soaked" at our expense. Time to change the rules if the oil companies want to sell us AMERICAN Natural Gas for our cars and trucks. We'll be watching.

I agree with you 100%, gave 3 Billion dollar subst to this group. Raise the level to 15% ethonal to gas. Get less mileage per gallon, so have to build smaller and lighter cars & truck. I have seen those SMART CARS. To me they look like a two door Coffin.

Do not try and tell me that we do not have better methods than burning corn for fuel?

Old story of the 70 Ford LTD getting 50 miles to gallon, with two agents from the dept of Energy with him, what happen?

What happened ??...can you say Nevada desert ???

aksmax...Quit wasting food? In the area that I live, more than 50% of the people are on food stamps and their food is free. Check out the dumpsters at apartments with a high percentage of "poor" people and you will see the waste. They eat a high percentage of processed and junk food and liberally throw half ot it away. It has no value to them. If you get something free...it has no value...

Heck a 10 ounce bag of Potato chips $4.

J.A-522495: The reason you find a lot of packaging from processed food in poor apartment dumpsters, is that it's all they can afford. The rich can always afford to grow their own, because they have the property and means to do it. The rest of us have to pay $3.50 four a pound of tomatoes at the local convenience store. Also: People are on food stamps because speculators and ethanol plants drove the cost of food up excessively. And employers (Wal-Mart) do not pay enough to sustain basic living costs and necessities. Get used to paying more taxes to support our service industry workers, because that will be increasing to meet the demand for MORE subsidies, too.

Ibuy...You cant be serious....I shop for the family food and I cook most of the meals. I have never paid more than $1.00 for a lb of tomatoes. In off season I buy canned tomatoes for 50 cents...Three yrs ago it was 34 cents. I dont buy anything at a convenience store. "The rich can grow their own" is certainly a misconception. Few people grow their own food. The fact is that if people get free food, it has little value to them...and they waste it...

Right J. A. People who work at Walmart and buy raw vegetables at a convenience store are a brick short of a load. Walmart has the lowest raw vegetable prices of any of the big box stores. Employees can use their employee discount and pay even less.

I agree with J.A. If most people HAD the space to grow their own food they would not know what to do with it, when it was ready to harvest or how to keep it from spoiling before they could eat it. I grew up in the country where we had our own garden and believe me, it is more work harvesting, canning, freezing and storing food than most people will ever want to do. Let alone preparing the soil, planting, endlessly weeding and caring for your family's food through the growing season. It is a hell of a lot easier to go to the market and buy a can of peas for under a dollar than to grow them. But at least I know how if I have to. When the city people are starving maybe they won't look at people who grew up in flyover land as just dumb farmers. We won't be rioting for food.

AMEN!!!

I just looked up an ad to a grocery store in my area. $3.42 for 12 oz. of "vine ripened tomatoes"

Itgranny...Then you had better keep looking...Even hothouse tomatoes should not cost over two dollars. And I dont buy them because tomatoes are not worth that much. Try other stores. By the way, Walmart produce tends to be very expensive. I never buy produce there...

Actually, i'm from rural minnesota and unfortunately that's pretty typical for this area. This isn't Walmart, but a large chain that's 50 miles away from me. Local is even more. We get nailed when it comes to fresh produce.

The Fed announced QE lite and promised QE 2 was coming. Almost to the day of this announcement, the US Dollar rolled over and dropped some 8% (it’s down nearly 15% since June).

Everything that is an inflation hedge has exploded since late August. Gold is up 15% and Silver is up 48%. Agricultural commodities are up 25% and climbing. Oil is up 20% and climbing.

In plain terms, we are entering an environment in which a US Dollar collapse has fueled inflation trade mania. By launching additional QE measures at a time other central banks have renounced additional easing measures (the ECB and Bank of England) or are actively raising interest rates (China and Australia), Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke has made it clear he is willing to trash the US currency.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/235446-u-s-dollar-collapse-has-fueled-inflation-trade-mania

You have to look at the world currencies and compare them to the USD. Ignoring the EU and their FAILING Economy. Comparing two SINKING ships and saying yours is sinking slower is ludicrous.

AC...I agree...The tremendous debt that our government has given us will guarantee high inflation. Printing more and more money just will make it worse and worse. I would certainly not like to be president in the next 10 to 15 yrs. No one wants to take the measures to turn these trends around....

What is "QE" ? Queen Elizabeth?

It buy back you own debt notes with new printed money.

Who has any money left from your paycheck after paying for the increases you mention? Working less hrs and less pay.

H-ll people are to lazy to do that work. I enjoyed canning and gardening but this fewer every year. Called government handouts.

Plant in pots and you can still get quite a lot of produce with out using a lot of space.

The cash crop now for home growers is Pot In POTS.

We should be using hemp to produce fuel and many other good things. We should be using pot so we're not so worried about the future. Can I get a shout out from all the motivated, achievement oriented, goal seeking, exploiters? How about for the titans of industry who have served us so well? How about rolling over and taking it more? Leaders brought us to this low. I think we should question what a leader is.

I spent over $1000 putting in a vegetable garden three years ago. Deer and raccoons destroyed it all. I got absolutely nothing. Locally grown produce costs more around here than at the supermarket.

Two years ago, I began receiving food stamps. I get a whole $15 a month. That is abut enough to buy a loaf of bread, a jar of peanut butter and a half gallon of milk. Meanwhile, I have been unemployed for the past five years. I have a Master's Degree in Electronic Engineering. I am a Vietnam Veteran as well. Everywhere I apply, I am told that I am over qualified, over educated and too old. There are literally millions of others in the US in the same boat. When Obama says we will have to compete in the global economy that translates to getting advanced college educations and working for a dollar an hour.

I'm sorry to hear that Ron, you don't deserve to be treated like that.

Just read the labels, o'Ya people can not read?

It's all frankenfoodstuffcrap. Most people today have never even eaten REAL, fresh, safe, unadulterated, toxin/chemical free food. You know...the kind that doesn't come in a box, can, jar or fast food drive-thru. And they're not very intelligent either. They refuse to buy a $4 half gallon of nutritious organic milk or a dozen organic eggs but don't think twice about slapping down $4 for a bag of chips or a 12 pk of soda( carbonated HFCS, water and chemicals) MORONS.

So...what does abortion or progressive legislation have to do with anything...? Or are you just having fun with your keyboard?

Junichiro, you cannot possibly be serious with your question. The original post had to do with population control. It should be obvious that 50 million chidren that were never born is significant in a population of 300 million. Not to mention the children and by now grandchildren they never had...

So it would be better not to abort unwanted children and then let them starve to death? What a great idea, eh?

Look at China today. To many males and not enough females

Yay, Zippy. You are the one here who has it right. We need to enact worldwide population control laws, one child per household, until our population drops to maybe 1/3 of our agricultural capacity. That way, no one has to starve, even with weather or natural disaster events affecting farm output.

@superlogi- really? wow you righties cant stay away from abortion when it comes to food shortages and dense populations... let me put it in simple folk terms- food and abortions are not even in the same damn ball park...

YOu want to blame the shortage of food and overpopulation on someone... blame it on the CATHOLIC CHURCH who encourages every woman to become a breeding machine by restricting/forbidding the use of birth control, not giving a rats ass whether families can afford to support and feed all these extra mouths or not.

Notice that the most underdeveloped, overpopulated countries of dying, starving people have been "converted" or influenced by Catholic missionaries.

The Mormons are just as irresponsible when it comes to population control.

Peter17, the reason we should be using a fuel product to produce fuel for cars has to do with politics. There is a huge corn products corporation named Archer - Daniels Midland that lobbies strenously for corn ethanol, not to mention congressmen and senators from corn producing states. They're making money and they couldn't care less that they're stealing it from you and me as well as raising the cost of food worldwide and literally taking food out of the mouths of the poor in developing countries.

Ethanol is made with FEED corn, You DON"T want to eat that. I tried as a kid. NOT GOOD

What do you think corn flakes are made from DS.

And cattle feed, and chicken feed, and pig feed. A very narrow view of the use of corn. There's dent corn and then there is corn grown for human consumption. It you tried to eat dent corn, you should have compained to whoever tried to feed you cattle feed.

ha ha ha u cracked me up with that comment. LOVE IT!!!!

The corn used for ethanol production is BIOENGINEERED and unfit for human consumption. In reality it is also unfit for consumption by ANY living being. PS... COWS DO NOT EAT CORN. They are FORCED to eat corn against their biological make up. Ruminants are GRASS eaters.. not GRAIN/SEED eaters. And...all of that bioengineered corn they eat... goes directly into YOUR body when you eat their flesh. You have NO CLUE what the chemicals, viruses, bacteria, toxins and other unnatural genes spliced into that corn will do to your DNA or your kids/grandkids DNA over time. Thank MONSANTO for that.

I am appalled at the ignorance that I have just read here. This is the first time I have read anyting here, and at first had a laugh, but soon realized that people here actually believe they know what they are talking about. Any person who thinks they can comment on business agriculture in a forum such as this obviously is not educated in the field enough to do so. Simply put....way too over simplified, but I will do this for the audience......If it is so easy and the government pays farmers to do "nothing"......try it yourself and then post your comments.

"pays farmers to do nothing"

Wow you truly are proud of yourself aren't you? I bet you work SO hard at that desk pushing papers and arguing with people on the internet.

Farmers are paid to practice conservation techniques, such as wildlife management, low/no-tillage practices, and many others. They are not paid to do nothing.

Did you eat today? You're welcome. Kind of crazy how those meals you ate today came from thin air and by no one doing any work.

Here's a big part of the reason that food prices are soaring that they usually won't even mention in the corporate press. Speculation on commodities by the financial industry now that their last scam, Mortgage Backed Securities has crashed (along with the world's economy) plus land being taken out of food production to take advantage of the government subsidies to grow corn for ethanol.

Wall Street and the rich generally are making a bundle on it one way or the other (Big surprise). They may give to charities (after all it's a tax write off) but they are mainly concerned with staying rich or getting richer.

Wikipedia:

Financial speculation

Destabilizing influences, including indiscriminate lending and real estate speculation, led to a crisis in January 2008, and eroded investment in food commodities.[4] The United States, specifically, had been facing an economic crisis that eventually lead to recession.[25][26][27]

Financial speculation in commodity futures following the collapse of the financial derivatives markets has contributed to the crisis due to a "commodities super-cycle." Financial speculators seeking quick returns have removed trillions of dollars from equities and mortgage bonds, some of which has been invested into food and raw materials.[28] That American commodities speculation could have a worldwide effect on food prices is reflected in the globalization of food production. It represents the concentration of wealth throughout the world, which Frances Moore Lappé equates to a weakening in fundamental democracy. In a recent article for The Nation, she suggests that there is no food shortage but that "as long as food is merely a commodity in societies that don't protect people's right to participate in the market, and as long as farming is left vulnerable to consolidated power off the farm, many will go hungry, farmers among them—no matter how big the harvests."[29]

[edit]

Commodity Index Funds

Goldman Sachs' entry into the commodities market via the Goldman Sachs Commodity Index has been implicated by some in the 2007–2008 world food price crisis. In a 2010 article in Harper's magazine, Frederick Kaufman magazine accused Goldman Sachs of profiting while many people went hungry or even starved. He argued that Goldman's large purchases of long-options on wheat futures created a demand shock in the wheat market, which disturbed the normal relationship between Supply and Demand and price levels. He argues that the result was a 'contango' wheat market on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, which caused prices of wheat to rise much higher than normal, defeating the purpose of the exchanges (price stabilization) in the first place.[30][31][32]

Biofuel subsidies in the US and the EU

The World Bank lists the effect of biofuels as an important contributor to higher food prices.[55] The FAO/ECMB has reported that world land usage for agriculture has declined since the 1980s, and subsidies outside the United States and EU have dropped since the year 2004, leaving supply, while sufficient to meet 2004 needs, vulnerable when the United States began converting agricultural commodities to biofuels.[56] According to the United States Department of Agriculture, global wheat imports and stocks have decreased, domestic consumption has stagnated, and world wheat production has decreased from 2006 to 2008.[57]

In the United States, government subsidies for ethanol production have prompted many farmers to switch to production for biofuel. Maize is the primary crop used for the production of ethanol, with the United States being the biggest producer of maize ethanol. As a result, 23 percent of United States maize crops were being used for ethanol in 2006–2007 (up from 6 percent in 2005–2006), and the USDA expects the United States to use 81 million tonnes of maize for ethanol production in the 2007–2008 season, up 37 percent.[58] This not only diverts grains from food, but it diverts agricultural land from food production.

Nevertheless, supporters of ethanol claim that using corn for ethanol is not responsible for the worst food riots in the world, many of which have been caused by the price of rice and oil, which are not affected by biofuel use but rather by supply and demand.

However, a World Bank policy research working paper released in July 2008[43] says that biofuels have raised food prices between 70 to 75 percent. The study found that higher oil prices and a weak dollar explain 25–30% of total price rise...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–2008_world_food_price_crisis

It isn't that we have less water. It's that the water is contaminated, salty, in the wrong place, there's not enough potable (drinkable) water or not enough in the right place for food production. The problem that's causing Darfur right now is because of Climate Change. Look it up, or don't you believe in that problem?

BTW, there's lead and mercury and pesticides in every drop of water everywhere on the planet. Your faith in the filtration system is laudable but wrong. There's no such thing as pure water on the planet these days. What do you think the market has to do with it? It has to do with energy and cars and factories, not the market. We humans have made our bed and we have urinated and defecated in it.

Humans outnumber all other mammals now. There are more people on this planet than rats or rabbits. The earth will abide, but we may not survive this global crisis.

look we are not running out of water ......pollution yes man made........but the earth still if a filter system and you no it........I no we still have to filter out chemicals. because when it rains.water gets contaminated due to what we put in our drains......

Most cities recycle it also from the sewers. Do you think that they kill all the bacteria and add all the chemicals to the water.

Basic chemistry......matter can neither be destroyed nor created.

keith is right......we drink sewer water just like i said.

At least they have some common sense and go to work everyday.

Schools are closing because they can't get the money to keep them open and pay teachers.

your local farmers are gone........there is only corporations ........try and sell food on the side of the road these days..........corporations have made it almost impossible.

Not where I live. Plenty of local farmers here in the California foothills. Sucks for you.

read at the bottom.#23

elvis payne, farmer's markets are popping up all over and I think that trend will continue. Locally they seem to have no difficulty selling their organically grown, vine ripened vegetables and fruit usually picked the same day.

Not in Texas ....try and sell on side of the road.....a permit is to high.wal-mart makes sure of that.

Indeed. Watch the movie Food, INC. Many Agri Corps and Meat producers are working hard to make it a Felony to sell the kinds of food you get at farmer's markets. Their argument is that it isn't "safe". Only mega corporations can provide you with safe food....so they say...

Ronald, the covenants in my neighborhood prohibit vegetable gardens and keeping animals other than a cat or dog. I might get away with having a pot of tomatoes on my deck.

Only mega corporations can provide you with safe food....so they say...

yaay for the "free market"

a "free market" run by mega corporations and right-wing pundits in their pockets telling suckers how wonderful it all is.

Not in Texas ....try and sell on side of the road.....a permit is to high.wal-mart makes sure of that

so much for the claims that Texas is the "wonderful land of 'free market'" only if you are rich, the little guy gets the shaft, again.

people should boycott all processed foods. They are the source of carcinogenic substances that cause much of the illnesses today.They contain all kinds of preservatives, colors, flavors (all chemicals) and high salt content - Not good for your Health. Period. That means you are boycotting all Food Corps. Since when did American people stop believing in themselves? people power can break any corporation or even a govt. So start shopping organic and go to the farmers markets and have your fill. prepare fresh food and eat your veggies. Who is to say we are to kowtow to the rich and their Corps? From what I see in the chatrooms, people only talk but no action! Is this why chat rooms were conceived in the first place? If each us does our bit this country will be a better place for all. Otherwise we may need a Food Revolution to make us all healthy! LOL.

timb2, do you realize that if everyone did as you are demanding, then we wouldn't be able to feed everyone?

going totally organic and eliminating fertilizers, pesticides, etc. would lead to widespread starvation, whether you like it or not.

Not if everyone contributes by having a kitchen garden.

timb2.

how much space does it take to grow all the food you need to eat for a year?

I looked it up, and the absolute minimum using one of the most efficient calorie-value per area food (potatoes) still comes out at 3300 square feet per person. thats for only potatoes and nothing but. a realistic value for a varied diet come out to about 5-6 times that area for a vegetarian diet, double it again for chickens, and quadruple that number for beef

your "kitchen garden" will give some tasty treats, but it is useless for actually living off of

My family buys the canning jars from thrift stores (after checking to be sure they are safe), or when they go on clearance and re-uses them.

if more people bought that then the price may go down some. besides i would rather pay the higher price for the organic than the chemical crap the government is having us chock down.

You don't need a green house to grow food. While it is nice, it isn't needed. I have a couple of plastic storage bins I got from a thrift store. Last year, I filled them with the growing mixture found in the Square Foot Gardening by Mel Bartholomew and grew carrots, tomatoes, spinach, green peppers, beets, potatoes, onions, and various herbs indoors. I took a couple of long bins outside and grew watermelon, pumpkins, muskmelons, honeydew, and strawberries.

If you have a patio or a porch you can use these containers and grow a lot of things.

Hey Elvis, I live in Northeast Ohio and if you would like I would be much more than happy to send you some photographs of the $200.00 "fantasy" that is sitting in my side yard, which is a quite nice looking 10'x20 structure build from PVC pipe and clear plastic which I built 2 years ago and replace the sheeting on every year at a cost of $70.00. I only use it 3 months out of the year to produce starter plants for my own garden and enough to sell to just cover the costs of keeping it up but if necessary I could operate it year round to at least help feed my own family and maybe a neighbor or two. By the way, I also believe that "man made global warming" (or whatever they are calling it today) is largely bull@!$%# and the so I'm not selling a agenda, as a matter of fact I'm not selling anything, but what I am saying is that people, such as yourself, that apparently believe that you can't do anything to sustain your own life will be the first ones to go in the upcoming global food, water, and energy crisis' that ARE directly ahead of us. Ultimately people will have to be responsible for their OWN survival. I may not be able to provide my family with satellite and high speed internet during this time of upheaval but I guarantee you that I can keep my family ALIVE during these times and that's a lot more than I can say for most of the folks I know. It's called educating yourself. The life you save just might be your own. Good luck.

....in the meantime there is more homelessness,less jobs and the unions make it virtually impossible to fire an incompetent teacher in the US

right, the unions are to blame for everything .....the rich get richer and the poor are screwed.....and the unions have nothing to do with it...the rich want you to believe that though....

Instead of sending food send birth control. Feed them make them healthly and the next generations breeds like rabbits.

This food crisis should give pro-choice people such as myself even more weight than it had in previous years. Earth is maxxed out in food production, but population keeps going up. When freshwater resources run out, the world will face a huge starvation similar to China in the 50's.

James....not necessarilly against population control but, not so much for aborting babies in the womb as a means of birth control. Shouldn't get that far to begin with. Though many believe that it's a womens choice, if that were the case how come a woman would choose get pregnant then have an abortion to begin with (especially a teen). Give women birth control if they're going to get pregnant due to lack sex attitudes (even teens). Society should not have to bear the emotional nor, fiscal costs of someone being irresponsible about thier body. Sex will happen but, individuals should take responsibility before they have sex for the consequences of sex.