Do you agree that the word Christmas should be in retailers' holiday marketing?
We don't celebrate Christmas in my religion. Shoving it down our throats is bullying. What would the guy whose birth it celebrates think?
I consider it the opposite, why are YOU taking away Christmas and replacing it with sterilized terms because you can't deal with it. Think about that, won't you?
Thank you Arkansas Annie. I have noted more and more that Christians tend to be far too defensive...I was raised Southern Baptist and am now a Buddhist...majored in Religious Studies in school. I am every dumbfounded by the need people feel to have their religion validated in the public. I do not say 'Merry Christmas' unless I am talking to someone I know celebrates that holiday. That is a matter of being respectful and polite...I also don't use many phrases specific to my own faith unless it is appropriate. Truly well educated people understand that there are several holidays being celebrated at this time of year, either with gift exchanges or other celebrations.
I have a tremendous respect for the actual teachings (not the man made 'Bible') of Jesus Christ, and I have a feeling he would be less than pleased by many of his followers in this day.
UoNorth, are you so weak that you let others change your family traditions? The RETAILORS are who decided on the change. It is all about MONEY. NO one person, or religion took away "Christmas." It was corporations who wanted to increse shareholder wealth by appealing to a broader customer base.
The simple fact is that the only reason this holiday exists is because of Christmas Day. If you choose you may not wish to celebrate the holiday but that truely is up to you. The vast majority of this country identifies itself as Christian whether they follow a specific religion or not. If you choose to follow a seperate holiday then that's up to you.
Christmas is shoving it down your throat. You can shove your words up another cavity if you'd like though. You don't have to be a part of Christmas if you don't want to. Yet taking it away is considered intolerant. The majority of Americans celebrate Christmas.
Like it or not, America was founded largely as Christian nation which is one reason why Christmas is a federal holiday. Yes, there are other religions and they all have their respective holidays and no one denies them the right to celebrate them, even the made up holidays like kwanza, so don’t presume to deny Christians the right to celebrate Christmas.
Those who cannot abide seeing Christmas being celebrated might consider relocating to somewhere where Christmas is ignored. Tehran is one suggestion and North Korea could be another.
UpNorth, you neglected to answer Annie's question, opting instead to deflect it with another question, but honestly: What would Jesus think of your position on Christmas?
First of all, it's widely accepted that Jesus was not born on December 25th—Biblical scholars actually note that the activity of the shepherds during the Nativity would seem to indicate that Jesus was born in the spring or summer. Moreover, Christianity has this old habit of establishing holidays to "counteract" or "substitute" old pagan holidays—the Feast of All Saints (November 1), for instance, was specifically moved from May 13 in Western Christianity to suppress pagan harvest festivals (like Samhain and Lemuria) and offer a Christian alternative.
Secondly, all of the trappings of Christmas—the lights, the creches, the garlands, the presents, the food—all of these things are material objects (most of which, I will again note, have their origin in older pagan traditions). How, exactly, are you being a good Christian by indulging in the sins of greed and covetousness? "The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, 'Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.'" (Mark 10:24–25)
This whole "War on Christmas" is just another right-wing, reactionary gimmick to distract people from more important things … like, oh, I don't know, the millions of people who are spending the holidays cold, alone, hungry, and shelterless. What does Jesus say about how one should interact with that element of society, UpNorth?
I guess the point I'm trying to make is this: stop worrying about the word "Christmas". Stop worrying about people using it or not using it or refusing to use it or insisting upon using it; that's all arbitrary. What's important about the holidays, regardless of whether you're lighting a menorah, a Christmas tree, rows of diyas, a Yule log, or straight-up throwing an old-fashioned Saturnalia orgy, is that you enjoy the company of friends and family and strive for a generosity of spirit.
I think Jesus would support that notion, but I'm just a lowly agnostic.
No one is going to take my personal relationship with Santa Clause away from me!!!
Whether or not Jesus would a holiday based on his name I do not know. What Jesus would do however would be to follow the holidays in Judaism. Some of them are celebrations and might involve the exchanging of gifts. I would hope that might answer that question.
I can imagine, being the nice Jewish boy he was, would like us all to donate to a charity that feeds the hungry, houses the homeless and cares for the orphans. Or, we could focus our time and money on excluding his people for the sake of commercialism. And, then we could make him feel especially proud by get all nasty about it too.
Christians are not the only people who celebrate Christmas; it is not strictly a religious holiday. In any case, isn't the heart of freedom of speech about allowing people to speak freely versus having them shut up to keep from offending someone?
If a business wants to say "Merry Christmas", they should be able to. If a business wants to say "Happy Kwanza" or "Happy Holidays" they should be able to. If you don't like what they say, take your business somewhere else, or simply write it off to living in a country with the freedom of speech for everyone, not just for you.
Why is this so darn complicated for some people?
Sumeragi
UpNorth, you neglected to answer Annie's question, opting instead to deflect it with another question, but honestly: What would Jesus think of your position on Christmas?
Your response is replete with minutia, looks great on paper but doesn't work in the real world. Answering Annie's question would be too predictable, and most intelligent people could figure that one out from my *deflective answer*.
I apologize if I don't like to pretend in my world and constantly replace Christmas with Holiday to be politically correct. Everything irritates everyone today. I'm not necessarily religious either, but growing up with a Christmas tree, celebrating Christmas parties in school and going Christmas shopping and then suddenly the word disappears because some people are threatened over a word "being shoved down their throats".
Also, Sumeragi, you could do everyone a favor probably in your life and stop telling people how they should feel, or how they should take things. This should be a non-issue because for what you wrote, means you aren't following your own edict. Or wait, let's be blunt...I think it means hypocrisy on your part?
Has it become too commercialized, yes. The truth is however that it would not exist at all if not for the holiday. This holiday not only benefits Christians but it also benefits you as well. Accept the name and enjoy the benefits. In this case you should be thanking them not chastizing them.
We don't celebrate Christmas in my religion. Shoving it down our throats is bullying. What would the guy whose birth it celebrates think?
If you don't celebrate Christmas then fine. No one is holding a gun to anyone head and forcing them to! But the bottom line is Christmas is the most celebrated holiday the world over in the month of December! You are by no means obligated to celebrate it! Jews celebrate Hanukkah, Yet i don't hear them whining about Christmas anywhere near as much as other religions do!
d-bo is getting coal in his/her stocking this year, I think.
For all those who complain that it is shoved down our throats, what about the idea that we MUST accept and acknowledge other religions. Being conditioned not to speak the word Christmas or utter the word Jesus or Christ for fear of offending someone else is bull@!$%#. Oh, you HAVE to and MUST be sensitive to the needs of the muslims, Jews and Buddhists but you can no longer use the word Christmas or Christ or Jesus.
Darryl, I agree with you, one has NO OBLIGATION to celebrate it. I would be interested to know what religion you follow that doesnt celebrate Christmas. Just to be clear, I for one am not shoving it down your throat.
Sumeragi.. Are you saying buying garland and putting up a Christmas Tree is greed? Do you feel that putting flowers or even marking a grave with a stone is greed? I think the general purpose is to celebrate the word of Jesus and to honor him. The three kings came down and brought gifts. Christmas is about giving and loving. To a degree it has become more about materials. Gifts make children and the poor happy. Around Christmas more people volunteer in soup kitchens and shelters. People donate to the poor and other charities. Coming together as a family and being generous to the less fortunate is what the Christmas spirt is about. (Not to be confused with the welfare spirit)
Maybe the reason Scholars think Jesus was born in the spring and summer is because of the warm weather. How do you know their wasn't a warm spell? Maybe there was Global Warming in this area and time? "Global Warming" is widely accepted. Mainly because the government would LOVE another tax and regulation. Maybe this proves our planet goes through cycles? I'm being very cynical. However, you could also be thinking of birth in the literal sense, when maybe it isn't that simple. Maybe Jesus was born into a man on this day? Maybe it was the day he realized that his father was God? December 25th could be a symbolic birth. Who knows. "The way to see faith, is to shut the eye of reason"
Finally, "The War on Christmas" is not a rightwing reaction. It's about being tolerant. If someone wants to put a sign up or a corporation wants to say "Happy Ramadan" they can feel free too. I won't get offended. I may be shocked or stunned, but we live in country or religious tolerance. Not the abolition or religion except privately in your own home. This was not how our country was founded.
If your point is not to worry about a word, then heed your own advice and do not worry about the word by become offended. Shrug it off. One of my best friends is Chinese. Known him since 2nd grade. I've been wished a Happy Chinese New Year by him and his family. They also gave me a gift. This isn't my tradition, but I did not get offended. I don't get offended by other people celebrating their traditions or religious holidays. Why should people be offended by Christmas? Why be offended by Christmas if you are Atheist? Then you don't believe in it, you could "laugh" it off.
"He who can give up essential liberty to obtain temporary safety, deserves neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin
As a Catholic, I do not wish to "shove" my religious beliefs on anyone. Unfortunately, the United States of America was founded by Christians. The terms "In God We Trust" and "...one nation under god..." are blatant reminders of this fact. Nearly 60% of the "Founding Fathers" were Episcopalian. The majority of the US population is, in fact, Christian. Christmas is a Christian holiday. Since the majority of the country is Christian and this is a major holiday, it follows that this celebration will be more visible.
True, there is separation of church and state, but you cannot regulate the populace from celebrating something just because you don't agree with it. That, in my opinion, is intolerant.
Businesses are only doing the smart thing by going back to using the word Christmas instead of PC terminology. Most Americans associate the holiday season with Christmas, not something else. For those who are offended by the word, that is your problem.
No one is forcing you to celebrate "Christmas". No one is forcing you to go out and buy gifts. Get over yourselves. Contrary to what secularists and the "victim minded" choose to believe, most who support the word "Christmas" being used for the holiday, don't support it out of religious fervor. We support it out of common sense. We support it out of tradition.
And we support it out of a desire to not be bullied by the so-called tolerant, who prove themselves to be intolerant of any beliefs but their own. That is what political correctness is, pure and simple. It is intolerance. You don't like it so you will force others to conform or be scorned.
Some tolerance.
Sumeragi
Sumeragi -
"This whole "War on Christmas" is just another right-wing, reactionary gimmick to distract people from more important things … like, oh, I don't know, the millions of people who are spending the holidays cold, alone, hungry, and shelterless."
Christian based groups have provided more food, clothing, shelter and education for needy people throughout the world than any other country or organization. Over 25% of their donations come in between Thanksgiving and Christmas. You can bash Christians all you want, we are not perfect people, but many practice what they preach.
"Stop worrying about people using it or not using it or refusing to use it or insisting upon using it; that's all arbitrary."
I disagree completely. It’s not arbitrary. I don’t see people trying to change Labor Day’s name or the 4th of July. It’s not a coincidence and it has everything to do with the religious affiliation of Christmas with Christianity. It’s not just Christians that celebrate Christmas, over 91% of Americans celebrate it, why is it so offensive to recognize that?
Does it really matter what the words are? as for the whole what would Jesus think.. I guess if you believe in Jesus you will find out.. if you don't lucky you. But really who cares, is it truly that horrible to hear Merry Christmas if you don't celebrate? Really? I told my children that we celebrate Jesus's b-day on this day and that he loved us sooo much he gave us Santa Claus and that Jesus shares his b-day presents with the children he adores... It's what my parents told me.
Christ probably doesn't have an opinion since he wasn't born in December. Life long Catholic here and I am a strong Christian, but let's deal with the real issue here.
well if you don't like hearing merry christmas then go back to the country your family came from, people come over here to our country and expect us americans to give up everything for you. you know it's fine to practice your religion in your own house or what ever but living in this country you need to respect our ways and that is we keep god in everything in this country. our country was built on god and trust but now because of people from all parts of the world living in our country our government thinks they have to take god and christ our of everything, this is the reason why the world is going to hell. if evryone would just stop and just let people beleave in what theywant to beleave in but don't try to turn other counrty away from what they beleave in, everyone just keep their religion in their own country or if you live in a different counrty then keep your religion in your own house or where everyou worship if that is the case but you are a citizen of this country and you will respect our ways that is keeping god in america and christmas is about the birth of our lord jesus christ and if you don't like hearing it thken stay home until christmas is over.
If you don't celebrate Christmas, that is certainly your choice. But over 85% of this country is Christian in some denomination or another. We are a democracy, which means that Majority Rules. I think 85% IS a Majority. If you don't like it. Go to a country that believes in the religion of your choice.
Pure Capitalism: You wrote, "I would be interested to know what religion you follow that doesn't celebrate Christmas."
I'm a Nichiren Shoshu Buddhist. And as you can guess by my user name, I live in the Bible Belt. In a small, conservative, very Christian town. So if I strike some of you as being defensive, I have good reasons for it.
And to reply to a charge that's turned up repeatedly on this thread: No, people like me aren't trying to stop anyone from celebrating Christmas. We're trying to prevent those of us who don't want to from being pressured into doing so.
It's a case of a minority standing up for its rights. In controversies like this, often the majority plays the victim card and acts as though it's the aggrieved party.
Well, it shouldn't. If you celebrate Christmas, you need not fear that any non-Christian Grinch will steal your holiday. You hold far more power than we do.
Therefore, I ask that you use it with wisdom and consideration. Please allow those of us who don't want to join the party to give it a pass. Thank you.
Annie... PLEASE tell me how you are forced or pressured into celebrating Christmas. If someone says Merry Christmas to you just say "Thank You." If someone says "Happy Hanukkah," reply "Thank You". If someone says "Happy New Year" and you don't believe in the solestial calander, just say "Thank You," If you live in this country, but don't like our Constitution and someone says Happy Independence Day, Please say "Thank You". Wetting your pants, getting offended, and throwing a temper tantrum is very childish. You don't have to believe in something, but be respectful and be tolerant of others. I'm sure you would like the same respect in return?
A'ishah - The three wise men traveled to Bethlehem upon hearing of Jesus’ birth. Even with a treacherous journey from the east, they would surely have visited him within the first year of his life. The Bible does refer to Jesus as a “young child” in the latest King James version, however it was common to refer to infants as a young child. It would not make logical sense for the wise men to deliver gifts to celebrate his birth when he was a toddler or older. I agree that Jesus’ birth is probably not December 25th, but his true birth date is not verifiably known. So December 25th was selected as a day to honor his birth. By the way, it was Emperor Constantine in 336 AD that first instituted Christmas, not the Catholic Church in the 1100’s. And the December 25th date has nothing to do with winter solstice. It was selected because it coincided with the birthday of the ancient sun-god Mithra, who was widely worshipped in the Roman Empire near the death of Christ.
Sorry, Janine, you are wrong. This country is a constitutional republic. Look it up.
What I don't understand is this, who honestly associates Christ with Christmas anymore? Ask any kid of any religion why we celebrate Christmas and they will mention toys and presents and Santa, you will very rarely hear Jesus mentioned and this holiday is primarily a kids holiday.
Some people act like saying Merry Christmas is as bad as using the "N" word or something that severe. It is a holiday greeting and nothing more. Anyone who says they are offended by these words has a much greater issue. Once they are said you are going to go on your merry way without another thought about it. You won't be filing charges or calling your shrink to figure out how to get through your days. It is not going to convert you over to Christianity. This is the only country in the entire free world that would allow this. If I travel to another country and don't like their practices they aren't going to change how they do things.
What is truly sad is that we put so much thought into these fairy tales. I grew up Catholic but as I became an adult who could reason these things out on my own I have changed my attitude. Until there is definitive proof that any god exists I will group Jesus in with Santa. What would insult me is if someone radical said anything to me about their god that believes killing is right. Morals exist without religion and to take another humans life as an act to your god diminishes the human race and the thinking of right or wrong.
How can you verify that the writers of books done over two thousand years ago were sane? Maybe they ate from the wrong plant and were stoned out of their minds. Maybe they were partaking in a little too much wine. Maybe they misinterpreted their dreams as reality. The only thing that has people thinking differently is faith, that's it. No fact, just faith. If we all would realize that we are one race, human, maybe we would learn how to get along. Instead we have several gods that view things differently even though your god is the only god in existence. How is it that every other religion is wrong and yours is right? What if you are wrong? If there is a heaven and hell don't you think they would be overbooked by now? Why hasn't Jesus just stopped in to your Sunday mass and said thank you? Because every religion has a way to explain everything off, once again without fact. Here is my take, your father (god) left and won't come back until he is going to burn the house down. You were abandoned for free will. Nice trade. If there truly was a god I believe he/she/it/they would have stepped in to fix their creation a long time ago.
I will leave you with this story; I know a person that runs a Christmas tree lot and the funniest story he told me was when a person came, purchased a tree, was told Merry Christmas and he took offense to it. It has only happened once in his six years doing this but it begs the question, if you are insulted by the phrase "Merry Christmas" why were you purchasing a Christmas tree? It's kind of like the people that complain about these holidays but don't complain about getting that day off with pay. It's a bunch of hypocritical BS and just one more thing for someone to complain about that does not affect anyone but yet garners more attention than any other issue this time of year.
I have never said Merry Christmas with the thought of a religious holiday and neither do stores, they say if for the cha ching of the register. I have said it for what it is, a holiday greeting that we have been reciting for hundreds of years in the United States of America. If it offends you, then leave.
Does anyone else see the irony in all this devisivness? I mean let's celebrate an individual that stood for love and tolerance by creating conflict and separation. Why don't we change the seasonal greeting to "Go F^%# yourself". It seems thats what people are feeling.
why are YOU taking away Christmas and replacing it with sterilized terms because you can't deal with it.
Sounds like you're the one who can't deal with it. Also, Christmas was originally a Spring holiday because Christ was born in Spring. Christmas became a Winter holiday because the Christians were trying to upstage the Pagans. The Christians wanted Christmas to have more people celebrating it. It was all about greed back then and its' still all about greed now.
Browns my kids do... We bake a cake, sing happy birthday and put baby Jesus in the manger at home before any xmas morning presents are opened... I may have "fibbed" a bit to explain Santa.. See my comment 1.26, but even now that they do not believe in Santa they still honor the traditions and spirit of the holiday.. If the day arises where the believes that I instilled based on my own are questioned, I only hope that whatever their believes they go with them fiercely.
Whoa. Brutal garbage here.
the entire point of this article was to show that most people want Christmas included in the holiday of December. If a store doesn't want to say it, so be it. Many choose to support stores that recognize that they celebrate Christmas. I am in Canada and it is the same. We have to be politically correct, yet the Muslims do not mind us saying Merry Christmas. They say it to us. As long as we recognize their religious holidays what is the problem.
Remember the only reason most people spend money is to give someone a Christmas gift...but I also agree it has become about stuff instead of Christ. So, to all you that think Christmas has become to commercial, go out and buy some gifts or food and give them to the Salvation Army or another organization that will ensure families receive something at Christmas. Remember, most of the social organizations are either Christian or founded by Christians. That, peopel, is the true love of Christ.
F***** stupid beyotch. F*** you and your negativity.
d-bo-2352959, you are being suspended for a day for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.
Above all else, respect others. Address issues and arguments and refrain from making personal attacks.
Ok Sumeragi, I see you read Da Vinci's Code. I don't consider myself a Christian, or really an agnostic. Not sure what I am. What I am NOT is someone who pretends I know more about someone's religion than someone who practices that religion. You're not being any better-mannered than some of the preachy Christians out there. It's arrogant.
By the way, people who spend a lot of money on Christmas and decorate their homes, are also capable of giving money to the poor. Count me in that number. You? I hope so.
MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY NEW YEAR!
This year I said I could care less about being PC.
I will wish MERRY CHRISTMAS to everyone I see.
I will say THANK YOU VERY MUCH to anyone who says, Happy Hanukah, Happy Kwanze or whatever they want to say to me.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Karen in Los Angeles
MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Merry Christmas Karen.
Browns - my two young nieces know why we celebrate Christmas.
The older one is in the Christmas pageant every year and the younger one thinks she is too because she raises her hand whenever someone says "Mary."
Her name is Mary.
Merry Christmas to you too Holy Cow! Boy does that ever put me in a good mood.
Some people need to read more history. The Founding Fathers had the mail delivered on Sunday because it would be unseemly for a secular government to observe a sectarian sabbath. And to some of the first European arrivals to North America, Christmas was a day of all work and no celebration.
Karen in Los Angeles
Merry Christmas to you too Holy Cow! Boy does that ever put me in a good mood.
Good,happy to hear it. Now I'll irritate half the folks hear and go watch one of the Hallmark Channels Christmas movies and have some lunch.
Annie, no one is forcing you to live in the U.S.A; I suggest if you can't tolerate people saying Merry Christmas for 6 weeks out of the year, that you pack your bags and move. We will not stop celebrating Christmas to please you.
Even those of us who celebrate Christmas are put off by the aggressive marketing and commercialism associated with this holiday. If it offends everyone else, well, join the club! For those who celebrate Hanukkah, BE GLAD your nice holiday hasn't become a commercial extravaganza where retailers start pushing their products on you after Halloween.
As for the word 'holiday' being substituted for the word 'Christmas' it has gotten very silly. Referring to items which are specifically Christmas in nature as 'holiday' means I leave it on the shelf. I don't buy 'holiday ornaments', 'holiday trees' or 'holiday outdoor lights'. In my own small way, I hope I am making a point.
Personally I love Christmas. The lights and decorations are beautiful. It takes me back to the magical times when I was a kid. To me it's about family. I have such good memories and I love to get together with my family and "remember when."
I don't have a lot of Christmas decorations and just because they're in the stores doesn't mean I have to buy them. I do love Christmas though!
When it is MArtin Luther Kind day is that shoved down your throat, What about Presidents day is that shoved down your throat.
I drive down the street and see porn shops I never view it as being shoved down my throat.. it is just a sign.
There is no right in american that can protect folks with ultra thin skin that are offended becuase somebody believes something they do not
The birth of Christ is the REASON for the holiday season. Growing up in the '60's-70's,in a truly mixed nationality bag of students.,...Italian,German,Irish,Jewish,and Greek,Made up my classes in grammar school and high school. All of the students of the Christian faith were jealous of the Jewish kids we had in classes....they got THIER holidays off along with ours.They made Christmas decorations in class with us,and showed us the Hanukah decorations they made earlier in the month,and the teachers had them explain what thier family's way of celebrating thier holiday. Now I guess the ACLU would have a ball with that...We grew up in mixed cultures,and were thankful to be exposed to them,and I feel we were better for it...As for me now,.... I'll respect your holiday,and won't try to change it,and offer you best wishes to enjoy it in your own way,and ask you to have the same consideration for me...So Happy Thanksgiving,Merry Christmas,Happy Hanukah,Happy Kwanzaa........(and if anyone is really offended by the word Christmas,or having Christmas Day off..go back to work in place of someone who is working and would rather be home with thier family........LIKE A SOLDIER)..............US. Army Disabled Veteran
Annie;
Standing up for minority rights? Where does a minority get the right to silence anybody? Majority or minority, the politically correct forces that attempted to remove "Christmas" from the vocabulary of this holiday, that historically has been Christmas or Chanukah, is ludicrous and shameful. To imply that you or anyone has the right to be offended and silence others flies in the face of the principles that America was founded on.
Annie and No One in Particular need to lighten up and have a Merry Christmas!'
I hear those sleighbell jingling, ring ting tingling too... Come on it's lovely weather for a sleigh ride together with you.
AND I LIVE IN LOS ANGELES. We don't have snow.
Christmas is for Christians who want to celebrate. Christmas is a fun holiday for those in American culture who are not necessarily religious.
You don't like our celebating, then go make up your own holiday.
Sure annie you hate CHRISTMAS, but I would bet my last dollar the you are one of those hypocrites who can't wait to take off of for the holiday. If you hate CHRISTMAS so much then why don't you and all of your atheist friends just work straight through until New Years Eve a$$hole. I am so sick of you HYPOCRITICAL IDIOTS.
Christmas has become so commercialized now anyway! There is hardly religion in any of the stores you go to- chill out!
If you would keep your mouth shut, no one can force anything down your throat
Another sign that we are getting tired of political correctness. If you don't like it, don't celebrate it - go to work!
Justwonderin', your post made smile because as a kid going to Catholic school in the '60's, we were jealous of the public school kids. They had Santa, Rudolph, Elves and Christmas trees. We had Jesus, shepherds, angels and the Star of Wonder. No comparison! :)
Joe 902344
Such a Christian response from you.
You do realize that Christ was born in the Summer and that Christianity stole the solstice from the pagans, right? This is all fact.
The next time you say Merry Christmas just remember, your holiday was ripped off from someone elses, and frankly, Christ has no business being associated with the solstice.
Happy Solstice.
my two young nieces know why we celebrate Christmas.
Do they know that Jesus was born in Spring? And if so, do they know why and how Christmas became a Winter holiday?
What always amuses me is the absolute willful ignorance of the extreme Christians. There is no holiday called Christmas, it is made up, it is make believe, your savior was NOT born in December. He was a JEW, he celebrated JEWISH holidays. His "last supper" was a SEDER dinner. He would be lighting his menorah come December 1st this year, like all other good Jewish boys.
Take your clown logic down the road and keep lying to yourselves, but stop shoving your idiocy on to all the rest of us. There is no such holiday, stop calling it Christmas. If you want to celebrate Yoshua's birthday, research it, he was born in the spring, late May, early June, have a party then. Or does the truth inconvenience your end of year greed and shopping obsessions?
Whatever, the holiday is about Christ ! HA! You don't even care that he WASN'T born at this time of year and you don't even care that he ADAMANTLY upheld the Jewish holidays and always celebrated them and made his disciples celebrate them. December 25th IS NOT ABOUT HIM, it is about all of you and your disgusting consumer driven greed. If he were the reason for the season you'd actually spend ten minutes researching him and making the season in the right damn month and you would honor his Jewish roots, as he did.
WHOA...I posted on this earlier and just wanted to see what had been posted since. A whole lot of WHOA!
Everyone, there is a lot of he said she said and full of intolerance on here. I think that fully summarizes the offense people take on either side, not that their should be a side.
I remember a time when saying Merry Christmas didn't seem like such a controversial thing, but it is now, mostly due to all of the intolerance as listed here. It is shoved on people. I cannot tell you how often I am looked down on for choosing to say Happy Holidays because I am simply being polite and do not know the person or their faith or the reverse, saying Merry Christmas because I am mistaken that the person celebrates the holiday and am then chewed out for 'assuming' the person is Christian.
Cannot win for losing, intolerance is abundant. Most Americans celebrate Christmas and my children participate in winter and holiday related traditions in school and in our home, all related to the time of year.
I have raised my children not to address holidays with people they do not know personally, because they are criticized, almost exclusively by Christians, for their lack of belief in Jesus as their savior...even in school, when supposed 'Christian' children find out my children are Buddhists, they are very often made fun of, it is a sad representation of the Christian faith. Thankfully my children are raised without that type of ignorance or intolerance and neither have ever retaliated, it would not be in their nature.
It is truly sad when people cannot celebrate diversity due to whatever internal factors are at play in their lives, you are missing out.
My grandfather was a department store Santa, this season too fills me with joy, he was truly my father and I miss him greatly. Some of my best memories are with him from the holidays. It is not a matter of the holiday, it is the intolerance, the need for people to validate themselves publicly to such a level that is derogatory and further to berate those who choose a different path. I never feel that need and often people are shocked to hear of my faith, with comments such as "I never would have guessed" or "You pray to the bald fat guy". There isn't a need to publicly validate my faith, it is within, nor is there a need to correct the ignorance of those others, if they wish to know more, they can ask or choose to learn on their own.
@Arkansas Annie, Namaste.
Hey Annie. That's unfortunate you don't celebrate America's past-time. However, calling "Christmas trees" measly holiday trees is not correct either. If you don't celebrate Christmas then you are in the minority. What's wrong with gift giving and celebrating a great holiday with loved one's? It's liberals like you that are the scrooge's of this country! Why don't you go hibernate with the bears and we'll wake you when CHRISTMAS is over?
How is someone saying "Merry Christmas" shoving it down your throats? Just get over your thin skin. Jeesh! I'm agnostic. Doesn't bother me when someone says "Merry Christmas", "Happy Haunika" etc. They are saying something they perceive as nice - don't get your hate.
Toph – You simply do not know what you are talking about and are just regurgitating the standard anti-Christian solstice myth. Jesus of Nazareth’s true birth date is not verifiably known. December 25th was selected as a day to honor his birth by Emperor Constantine, which coincided with the birthday of the ancient sun-god Mithra. Christmas has nothing to do with the winter solstice.
My son works for a major supermarket chain and four years ago the employees were told that they had to say Happy Holidays to the customers, one day after a customer payed for her groceries she told him Happy Holidays, he told her Merry Christmas and the color drained out of her face, how silly. I am surprised that she didnt try and sue the store. What people really should do is ,whatever holiday they are celebrating they should just tell the customer, store clerk etc. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanuuka or whatever they themselves are celebrating, who cares, just dont ban people from declaring how they feel about their own holiday.
I'm not saying that Christ was born in the middle of December, or it was snowing or whatever. I'm simply saying that if people want to celebrate Christmas they should be allowed to say the word. There are so many other religions in the US now that want to force their believes on the Christians but don't want the Christians to voice their believes at all. Yes we should all be tolerant of each other; but, when do the other relgions become tolerant of Christians? After all the Country was founded on Christianity.
Happy holidays to everybody.
Oh, and Merry Christmas to those of you who have so little self-esteem you need to have your holiday validated separately. When did people start getting so uppity about such a nonissue? Why is Happy Holidays an insult?
I celebrate Christmas, most of my university does too. We decorated our servery for Christmas, but considering our huge international population, I wouldn't object to a "Holidays" sign. It's just a courtesy to include everyone.
Wow, I am so proud of my fellow Christians. This is the season to spread love and help others. So what do all you so-called "Christians" do? You boycott businesses, protest, and make other religions feel insignificant.
You could be out helping the homeless and the poor. You could be out spreading love, tolerance and acceptance. You could be helping wounded soldiers, or the sick and needy. But NOOOOOOOOOO. Not you "Christians".
No, no, no . . . you "Christians" focus all your energy on boycotts and protests over a WORD. You decide that with all the problems in the world, all the heart-ache, pain and suffering; the commercial use of the WORD "Christmas" is most important. Let's all stand up and give you a round of applause. Jesus would be so proud of you right now . . . SO PROUD.
Hey if the gays can stand up for gay marriage then Christans should be able to stand up for Jesus! Correct?
Oh yeah and Thoughts from Cali, It's not simply about the word "Christmas". It's about the principle behind liberals wanting to squash anything and everything that has to do with Christmas. In fact you sound like one of those wishy washy "HOLIDAY " Christians that just show your face in church on Easter and Christmas too. So why don't you just go stuff your face with some "Christmas" Pie or go Hibernate for Christmas since you're too wimpy to get the big picture.
Ann in Arkansas:
Well, just go about your business and the rest of us will go about ours.
I suppose we are also shoving a paid day off down your throat.
We don't celebrate Christmas in my religion
Christmas is not about religion. Some people think it is, but it is not. Christ was not born on December 25th. That is simply when other pagan celebrations were already taking place and the church merely "hijacked' them and gave them a religious spin. Same with Easter (although, unlike Christmas, they didn't even bother to change it's pagan name to something more religious sounding).
Loudmouth - Why? Because I don't buy into your pathetic attempt to scare people with some made up "liberal" monster that you claim is attacking you? Because I am not so weak minded that I feel attacked over the use of a word? Because my self esteem is not dependent on what other people or CORPORATIONS do? There is no conspiracy to "squash" everything about Christmas. You are a fear monger, constantly believing someone is out to "get you" because you can't face the painful reality that YOU ARE JUST NOT THAT IMPORTANT.
I question your beliefs, if you can not see the TRUE meaning of the Holiday. I question your knowledge of the Bible, if you are blind to the fact that Jesus himself would not be bothered in these petty semantics. In fact, you don't know Jesus at all. He would ask that you use your energy to help others, and not be caught up in some pathetic "conspiracy theory". So stop pretending to be a "Christian" . . . you are NOT.
Happy Birthday Jesus!
Even though it's not even being celebrated in the season when you were born...
And the trees and wreaths and so on came from Pagan traditions...
And the fat guy in the red suit getting more press and presentation in the ads than you...
And your followers using money, which you seemed to consider to be anything but an indicator of God's favor, to coerce others into witholding respect for other faiths...
And your followers putting material things over showing the characteristics of tolerance and forgiveness that you told them was so imprtant.
Can you come and get them for their promised ride on the comet or Great Space Coaster or whatever already? Not even all of them, just the theocracy-pushing asshats like AFA.
Here's my boycott, only as needed. Some salesperson says "Merry Christmas" and I'll calmly say "Wrong faith, wrong greeting." If they push the issue I'll ask for the manager and work my way up in complaining about their religious discrimination.
Loudmouth said, " It's about the principle behind liberals wanting to squash anything and everything that has to do with Christmas."
Wa ha ha ha ha you poor demented fool!
Like as if there are no conservative aetheists or agnostics. Your rote is nothing but bias and bigotry.
Happy Holidays, LoudMouth.
Arodoll
You accuse me of regurgitating? And all you do is regurgitate mythology to try ansd prove your point? Please.
Christianity stold the Solstice from the Pagans, because they needed to make their "new religion appealing to the most people possible. What were most people, Pagans.
Do some factual research before trying to prove something using mythology and fantaasy.
You "no" people are right... Let's rename a few other things:
Santa Claus - The weight challenged jovial person in the red suit.
Menora - The Holiday Candlestick
The Dradle - The Holiday Top
The Kinaras - The wooden Holiday Candlestick
Gifts (for you athiests) - Selfless object exchanges or allowances
The Star of David - The Festive Triangular Symbol
Seriously you people that want to Homogenize society need to grow thicker skin; you take yourselves WAY to seriously. And those of you grouping people in to your own prejudicial boxes need to get out more have a greater diversity of thought and friends.
Is Christmas Day a paid holiday for you at your job? If so, it doesn't matter what religion you are, you can have a Merry Christmas because you don't have to work. Don't look to get insulted, look to enjoy the various holidays, whatever they are.
And here we have some rote comments from America's Evangelical Taliban:
antiminion said, "All I want for Christmas is to wake up and all the facist liberals are gone, dead, etc. Sick to death of these pariahs.
You will burn in hell for wishing others dead.
antiminion said, "They are trying to destroy every sacred institution that once made the nation great. These people are the enemy folks. Not the Taliban, muslims, Russians, Al qaeda, North Koreans, etc. "
You are demented and need psychological help. I highly suspect in your case, it is a pre-existing condition.
Happy Holidays, antiminion and may God save your soul.
To the Christmas haters who want to tell me that Jesus was born in the spring - WHO CARES and HOW DO YOU EVEN KNOW? Were you alive 2000 some odd years ago? NO.
MOST OF THE WORLD celebrates Christmas as Jesus' birthday. If you don't like it, too bad for you.
Bah humbug to you Scrooges.
And I will merrily continue to Christmas shop for my several nieces and nephews.
I enjoy Christmas and I'm not even a Christian.
Johnny Mathis - It's Beginning to Look a Lot Like Christmas Lyrics
http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/homealone2/itsbeginningtolookalotlikechristmas.htm
It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas
Ev'rywhere you go;
Take a look in the five and ten glistening once again
With candy canes and silver lanes aglow.
It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas
Toys in ev'ry store
But the prettiest sight to see is the holly that will be
On your own front door.
A pair of hopalong boots and a pistol that shoots
Is the wish of Barney and Ben;
Dolls that will talk and will go for a walk
Is the hope of Janice and Jen;
And Mom and Dad can hardly wait for school to start again.
It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas
Ev'rywhere you go;
There's a tree in the Grand Hotel, one in the park as well,
The sturdy kind that doesn't mind the snow.
It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas;
Soon the bells will start,
And the thing that will make them ring is the carol that you sing
Right within your heart.
I am Jewish, and I am an American. A real one. One who believes in the traditions that make America what it is. Or was till (not the point). Now I have Watched Jean Sheppard's "A Christmas Story" too many times to count. I know all the verses to the Grinch song. I've seen every cartoon, every old holly wood epic, and some years even decorate. I am not offended by Christmas. I'm certianly not offended by "Merry Christmas". I do not care if this tradition came about from the story of Jesus, A greeting card company or wherever. The point is that this Christmas season is meant to have a positive meaning. And so I would say as an American I am offended, no incensed by those who would censor the name of this holiday, a holiday that's all about peace on earth and all that crap as though it is some how insulting, profane, an affront to those who are insulted by such things. To those of you who are offended so much by an expression of good tidings I say to you, an early MERRY CHRISTMAS.
Enough silliness about PC. Enough with being afraid to enjoy and be happy because 'someone' might be offended. Someone will always be offended. Christmas is for kids, parents, grandparents and is a grand tradition. Who cares about the correctness of date or what made it Christmas. We celebrate Christmas to celebrate Christ, to celebrate family, to celebrate life and...to watch someone opening a present you gave them, to decorate the tree, to watch neighbors outdo one another with decorations...I refuse to be bullied about my beliefs and I refuse to allow someone's easily offended sensibilities to dampen my joy. Oh, and MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Arkansas Annie, he would think you are a politically correct crybaby!
Christmas arguements always make me think of this video:
http://www.theonion.com/video/in-the-know-has-halloween-become-overcommercialize,14284/
Holidays and their meaning change over time. You can change what you want to call it or be in an uproar that it's something it's not supposed to be, but that isn't going to change the way that it is.
Arkansas,
He would say "thanks for remembering me". I don't take away from others holidays or their right to do so, so why should my right be infringed on?
What I find hilarious is when someone requests all their other religious holidays off. Be it Jewish, Muslim...whatever. When you ask them what shift they will be working on Christmas, they look stunned. The very next words are usually "but it's the Christmas holiday!". Guess it's convenient to use when needed only.
The holiday is called "Christmas". If you don't want to celebrate, good for you. Go to work and let someone else off.
Thoughts from Cali and Spike:
It should always be called Christmas period! If you want to call a spade a flower or the sky gray when it's blue, then that's on you, but when push comes to shove and you wanna take God out of the Pledge of Allegiance, In "God" we Trust off of the devalued dollar bill, and Christmas ads and change them to Holiday. Well, it's time to push back! And that's what is going on here. What you say is petty, means something to a lot of us. You can shove your liberalism views down our throats, just don't be mad when you got a gun clinging conservative ramming their barrel down yours! Have a Merry Christmas you two!
Why the retailers took the politically correct route in the first place is a mystery, since the vast majority of their customers celebrate Christmas to some degree or another. I mean, there's no constitutional clause that in America we must have "separation of church and business."
For those of you who are not Christians, and practice another religion: have you ever been in a country (like Isreal, or Thailand or India) during their majority religious holiday seasons? I have. The entire country---governments, businesses, streets, homes, theatres are transformed. Signs, decorations, parties, greetings, religious symbols and ceremonies are EVERYWHERE. I had freedom to practice my Christian holidays while I was there, but no way was anyone going to stop their own celebrations or subdue it in any way just to appease my sensibilities. Nor did I expect them to. How selfish would that be?
Toph – I have done much research on this subject and read several books, both by Christian and non-Christian authors. By virtually all historical accounts, some form of Christmas was celebrated all the way back to 200 AD however Christmas in the form of celebrating the Jesus of Nazareth’s birth on December 25th began as I stated, by Emperor Constantine in 336 AD in which he designated that day to celebrate Jesus’ birth and life. This, as I stated previously, coincided with the birthday of the ancient sun-god Mithra. This was a pagan god and Constantine did this specifically to conform past pagan rituals with Christianity. Again, both the pagan worship of Mithra on December 25th and the subsequent celebration of Christmas on the same day had nothing to do with the winter solstice. Similarly the Christmas Tree did not originate from the celebration of winter solstice. The idea that Christmas and most of its traditions are related to the winter solstice has been a long touted myth and is simply not true. You can read for yourself at the sources below or in countless books. Of course if you can offer any sources otherwise, please share.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Christianity-Church-History-2348/Christmas-celebration.htm
http://www.christmascarnivals.com/christmas-history/origin-history-christmas.html
http://www.infoukes.com/culture/traditions/christmas/
http://www.origin-of-christmas.com/
but when push comes to shove and you wanna take God out of the Pledge of Allegiance, In "God" we Trust off of the devalued dollar bill,
Both of which can be construed as unconstitutional, as god was not originally in the Pledge or on the currency.
, just don't be mad when you got a gun clinging conservative ramming their barrel down yours!
Is that a threat?
When you ask them what shift they will be working on Christmas, they look stunned. The very next words are usually "but it's the Christmas holiday!". Guess it's convenient to use when needed only.
I work on both Christmans Eve and Day, and Thanksgiving to boot. What's your point?
I like your post Robin Steele. I am not Jewish but with so many friends who are, I've learned about Yom Kippur, a Jewish holiday.
Because I like the meaning of this Jewish holiday, I've adopted my own Yom Kippur observance.
Happy Hanukah and Merry Christmas to you!
radoll
THANK YOU for giving us the history of Christmas.
I was raised Catholic and knew that story.
It seems many people have different ideas of what Christmas is all about and the history behind it.
I liked learning about all of them (except from the negative party poopers).
It means a lot to so many people.
That is just so cool and ever since Robin mentioned the Grinch, I keep thinking about Cindy Lou Who "But Santie Clause, why, why are you taking our Christmas tree, why?"
To those of you who are offended so much by an expression of good tidings I say to you, an early MERRY CHRISTMAS.
How "convenient" of you Robin Steele that you omitted the Islamic holiday greetings. After all, aren't they like one tribe over from the Jews? Related somehow?
LoudMouth said, "You can shove your liberalism views down our throats, just don't be mad when you got a gun clinging conservative ramming their barrel down yours!"
I'll take that as a threat, LoudMouth.
FYI, there are conservatives that are atheists and agnostics. You are a DOLT and a RUBE.
Happy Holidays, LoudMouth.
Spike
You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch.
You really are a heel.
You're as cuddly as a cactus,
You're as charming as an eel.
Mr. Grinch.You're a bad banana
With a greasy black peel.............
You're a foul one, Mr.Grinch.
You're a nasty, wasty skunk.
Your heart is full of unwashed socks
Your soul is full of gunk.
Mr.Grinch.The three words that best describe you,
are, and I quote: "Stink. Stank. Stunk."
You dont get it Annie, its not that we are trying to push it on you its that we were told the we HAD to change how we named the Christmas season and the symbols that go with it. ALL other religions DIDNT have to.
THATS What everyone is upset about.
This is America. No one "shoves" it down your throat. You have the FREEDOM to choose to not listen to it, just like you have to listen to commercials on TV. It is a fact of AMERICAN life. If you don't like it, leave! : )
Trying to avoid offending the minority has become extreme in our society, especially schools. I am tired of people who object to children being read the stories of Rudolph and Frosty (thanks to the ACLU there are no stories about Baby Jesus allowed), who object to their children decorating a tree with paper ornaments, or even cutting paper snowflakes. There was a parent one year who wanted the annual Winter Program cancelled because he decided the "penguins" in it were "too christian."
Respect is a two-way street. Please do not ask the majority to respect the minority, when the minority refuses to give respect back. If I say Merry Christmas and you don't celebrate it, just say Happy Holidays or Happy Hannukah or whatever, don't take it as a personal attack. I have found most attacks come not from those who follow other religions as they want freedom to express their's also. Most attacks come from those who practice no religion themselves and do not want any reminders that the rest of us do.
Spike, I heard a rumor once that Jesus was Jewish, you, my friend are welcome to celebrate whatever Muslim holiday floats your boat, and in good health.
I have a friend that is a Jehovah's Witness, she is not offended by "Merry Christmas" She politely says "I don't celebrate Christmas I'm a Jehovah'sWitness" all is said and done. As far as the day off she told me "hey I get an extra day off with pay." Christmas bonus....she enjoys those too. I ask her a lot of questions about her religion so I can better understand. It's not a religion I would care to practice and I don't have to. I do respect her and her beliefs.
I just met a girl who is Wiccan, out of curiosity I asked her to explain it to me. I don't agree with her religion, but it's hers not mine.
Instead of being so judgmental and thinking that everyone should have the same beliefs why not just try to go with the flow. If you don't like it you don't have to participate. Nobody forces you to buy anything. If you do buy the things when you really don't want to, then you are a weak person. It's not hard to say "No Thank You"....period!
Yes some stores go overboard with their displays and marketing, that is their problem not mine. They can't force me to buy anything I don't want to buy.
Spike, I heard a rumor once that Jesus was Jewish....
I heard a rumor that Robin Steele was Jewish but its just rumor. I seriously doubt you are Jewish.
(thanks to the ACLU there are no stories about Baby Jesus allowed
Maybe because Jesus is a religious Icon and as such, any stories would be considered religious promotion by the school and therefore, is unconstitutional.
Most of the traditional rituals observed during Christmas are pagan in origin stemming from the winter solstice festivals. The Christmas tree is pagan, singing Christmas carrolls is pagan, giving gifts is pagan, wishing tidings and good cheer to others is pagan, burning the yuletide log is pagan. The date of Christmas is pagan as Jesus was thought to have been born more towards the summer - sometime in May is cited quite often. The early Christians originally adopted December 25th as the date to celebrate the birth of Jesus so they wouldn't pi$$ off most of the general population by taking away the winter solstice traditions and festivities.
Take away all of the above and Christmas rings somewhat hollow. The early Church thought, and quite rightfully, that the day of resurrection was certainly more important than the day of Jesus birth. Way too much emphasis is placed on Christmas and not nearly enough is placed on Easter. I'm sure the Easter bunny might disagree, but that is just the way it is.
Christmas is only 'shoved' down your throat if YOU let it be!! That's just a lack of will power and determination on YOUR part don't blame someone else for your weakness.
Wow you people are all nuts!!!! This has nothing to do with a christmas take over. Nothing to do with muslims, jews or any other religion. This is about advertisments. Just because retailers dont put christmas in their ads or comercials the AFA is trying to say they are exploiting christmas. Did any of you read the article?!?!?!?! The AFA needs to get real, personally it doesnt matter to me whether walmart calls it christmas or "the holidays". It doesnt change anything in my life, or any of your lives. I think the Amercian FAMILY Association needs to focus on more important things, like feeding homeless children.... Helping needy families hit by the ressecion, anything besides this waste of time BS, because honestly will what they advertise change they way you celebrate the holidays???????????????
SmallTownPete I wish I could give you more than one vote for being a voice of sanity. Thank you!
It's liberals like you that are the scrooge's of this country!
I'm a liberal and *gasp* I celebrate Christmas with my family even though it's my least favorite Holiday of the year next to Valentine's Day and Easter.
And it is the people such as you that is creating the problems in America today. Christmas or similar holidays are celebrated in many different religions in many different ways throughout the world. This country was and is based on christianity with the respect towards others views, but when those other's views construe a conflict of interest and the demise of a general standard most Americans believe in, then it is you and your adiamorphic congregation are the ones who are bullying the greater of the population, it is your opinions and beliefs that you push onto those who are content with saying God in public, who are proud to say the Pledge of allgegience, and are proud of this country, because of your type and the beliefs in which each and everyone of you tend to change the laws and points of view that society in America is becoming a Godless nation with no moral standards, it is your type of people which corrupt the minds of our children, the same children in which we will depend on to decide our futures. With that to ponder, take your Godless self, thank a Vet for the sacrifices he/she has made for your right to believe in what you do, and have a MERRY CHRISTMAS.
This country was and is based on christianity
No it wasn't. This country is based on the principles outlined in the Constitution, which is a secular document with no reference to christianity or any other religious ideology.
but when those other's views construe a conflict of interest and the demise of a general standard most Americans believe in, then it is you and your adiamorphic congregation are the ones who are bullying the greater of the population
Irrelevant. You can believe whatever you want. But your belifs do not infringe or override the beliefs of others or the Constitution and the law itself.
each and everyone of you tend to change the laws and points of view that society in America is becoming a Godless nation with no moral standards
Our moral are not derived from god, nor are moral dependent or exclusive to god or religion.
it is your type of people which corrupt the minds of our children, the same children in which we will depend on to decide our futures.
Ok, now you're just nonsensically ranting.
and have a MERRY CHRISTMAS.
Happy Holidays.
Who cares! Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, I don't know what you say about Rhamadan but have a good one of those too, Happy Holidays. They all mean the same thing. I hope that you and yours have a great holiday season whatever that means. Goodwill to all.
This country was and is based on christianity with the respect towards others views...
Bull@!$%#! My right to have and exercise my Pagan religion is not based on your Christianity, it exists in spite of your Christianity.
...but when those other's views construe a conflict of interest and the demise of a general standard most Americans believe in...
Religious eliteism at its finest.
...then it is you and your adiamorphic congregation are the ones who are bullying the greater of the population...
Get rid of the persecution complex.
The fact is, whether you like it or not, under the U.S. Constitution, my Paganism is just as legitimate and significant a religion to me as your Christianity is to you. Neither takes precedence over the other.
With that to ponder, take your Godless self, thank a Vet for the sacrifices he/she has made for your right to believe in what you do...
As a matter-of-fact, I recently did just that. He is a veteran of the Iraqi war, and is a Pagan.
...and have a MERRY CHRISTMAS.
And a Blessed Yule to you.
Regards
Proud Pagan: by all means you have every right to your beliefs and your right to express those beliefs. If you wish to pick a particular day and contact all the major stores to promote your day through sales and advertising, by all means no one is going to stop you. I don't know how many stores would promote your religion because the majority of people in this country are not pagans. But you do have that right to expression. By the same token, Christians also have the same right to say "Merry Christmas" and stores are allowed to promote "Christmas sales". If you disagree, don't shop during the "Christmas season", which is a season of goodwill, peace and joy to all, including pagans. So to you I say, "Merry Christmas " and I appreciate you wishing me a "Blessed Yule".
ronkonk
well your stuff about season of good will is just B.S. otherwise the "christians" would not be so exclusive and intolerant of all with different beliefs -- seems the "christians" aren't happy unless they are demeaning or belittling all who believe different than they do Happy Holidays -- I don't appreciate anyone assuming I am a christian
rbachwell your stuff about season of good will is just B.S. otherwise the "christians" would not be so exclusive and intolerant of all with different beliefs
I can see that, they are causing problems all over the world.
...by all means you have every right to your beliefs and your right to express those beliefs.
As do you, of course.
If you wish to pick a particular day and contact all the major stores to promote your day through sales and advertising, by all means no one is going to stop you.
That is one of the differences between you and I. Such a thing could be seen as contrary to the tenets of my belief.
By the same token, Christians also have the same right to say "Merry Christmas"
I do not know of a single occurance of a person being forbidden from expressing themselves as such, unless within the confines of their employment.
...and stores are allowed to promote "Christmas sales".
Stores have their own particular rights. Again, I do not believe a store has been fined, sued, or otherwise prosecuted for saying "Merry Christmas."
If you disagree, don't shop during the "Christmas season"
I have no issue with Christmas or the personal expressions thereof. I have a problem with anyone who believes this nation is founded on, ruled over, or guided by any one religion to the exclusion of others, including Christianity.
...which is a season of goodwill, peace and joy to all, including pagans.
Agreed.
So to you I say, "Merry Christmas " and I appreciate you wishing me a "Blessed Yule".
Thank you
rbach: how is it belittling others when Christians want "Christmas" instead of holiday? I've seen Chanukah bushes and menorahs displayed and do not feel slightest in the least. They are not imposing their beliefs on me, they are merely expressing themselves. If someone wishes another Happy Kwanzaa, I don't feel like they are shoving Kwanzaa down my throat. Like I told Proud Pagan, you are free to go to the major retailers and ask them to promote your holiday. Maybe there should be a SATAN sale, who knows? If there are few people that would respond to it, the retailers may not opt to promote it. But when our nation has such a large number of Christians, it makes sense to promote such a holiday. This isn't something new, it's been going on for a hundred years. If you don't agree with this, don't shop during the holiday season. If you are not in the majority, it doesn't mean the majority does not like you. Merry Christmas and Peace to you.
Proud Pagan:
I have no issue with Christmas or the personal expressions thereof. I have a problem with anyone who believes this nation is founded on, ruled over, or guided by any one religion to the exclusion of others, including Christianity.
I agree with you 100%. No one religion is any better than another and should not be expressed as so.
It was nice to have had this dialogue with you. Thank you.
ronkonk
How typical of your type to ignore the actual topic and blather on about nonsense that is nothing but your smoke shield to avoid the real topic
This has nothing to do with what the retailers are promoting --- the retailers if anything hijacked the christian holiday for profit nothing more -- they saw a chance with a lot of low to no information folks (you know like the "birther types" who are just a bunch of mindless sheep that will follow their leaders off a cliff -- the real issue is the assuming all are celebrating christmas and not one of the other myriad of holidays occurring in the same time frame
Here is the actual issue --- "christians" rather than actually following the teachings of their chosen god and practicing love and peace have chosen to be the opposite and be intolerant and exclusive of all others the ones that are taking the low road are indeed the "christians" who would much rather allow the retailers to hijack their made up holiday which they stole from the pagans with very little changes and then blather on about a non-existent war on christmas rather than just be loving to all
So Happy Holidays to you even though you show your real colors of exclusion and intolerance
rbach: yeah, Christians wanting "Christmas trees" instead of "holiday" trees are a real intolerant bunch of mindless radicals. I'd put them on the same page as the rest of the terrorist groups, such as Al-Qaeda, Hamas etc;huh? the "christians" who would much rather allow the retailers to hijack their made up holiday " ---- this is as bad as hijacking planes I guess. I'd be very nervous when one says "Merry Christmas"- you never know what kind of hateful destruction they are planning. Hopefully, our goverment agencies are paying close attention to those who mail Christmas cards. I am not assuming all are celebrating "Christmas:, obviously there are many other religions and non-religions out there. And you do not have to say "Merry Christmas". I just find it interesting why you have zero tolerance of those who do. I don't criticize you for saying "Happy holidays" and you should not criticize those who say "Merry Christmas" This is where the real hate lies. On that note, as Santa would say "HO HO HO, MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!
ronkonk
well yes you seem to get some of it -- indeed the extremists "christians" are ever bit as bad and destructive as any other religious extremists and definitely need to be on the homeland security watch list for sure -- look at the OK bombing and the Olympic bombings both "christian" whack-jobs
You still fail to get the point or you are just doing your "christian" thing of blowing smoke and hoping no one will try to keep you on the real topic --- saying merry christmas to someone is being exclusive and showing total lack of respect for other beliefs and saying happy holidays is being inclusive and respectful of all -- so go home and practice what ever fairy tale you'd like and try to be nice and inclusive you may just start to put forth some of the real season greetings and start to show some intelligence and tolerance for others -- Happy Holidays yes I believe in santa more than I do in jesus after all they are both man made fairy tails
rbach: according to your line of reasoning, saying "Happy Holidays" is exclusive and showing a total lack of respect to those who wish to be miserable and don't want to be happy, or who are depressed. Who are you to wish someome a happy holiday if they do not agree that the holidays are a time to be happy. The long and short of it is that you don't have to believe in Jesus but when so many people do, Christ will be in Christmas. Christ is part of this country, even if you don't believe in him. God will be in this country.You can scream and holler all you want, but guess what, it ain't going away. So you might as well pull a Rip-van Winkle and wake up when it is over. To show you just how tolerant a Christian I am; Happy holidays!!!! That didn't hurt a bit. And to the Jewish folk, Happy Chanukah. And to those who celebrate Kwanzaa, Happy Kwanzaa!!!! This is respect. Bet you can't show it.
You speak of intolerance as though you are above it. However, post after post in your own words, shows your intolerance towards Christianity.
Considering there are 2 billion Christians in the world, that quite possibly makes you one of the most intolerant people on the planet.
That also doesn't include other religions of the world, which you also seem as though you likely oppose. What were you saying about intolerance again?
Merry Christmas!
ronkonk
even though I will never agree with your misguided view that somehow "christians" own our country and your view of blowing smoke and ignoring any and all facts that disprove your views --- Happy Holidays to you
gwaarin
obviously you are reading my post with much judgment and twisting of my words -- nope never said I was intolerant at all -- will I keep "christians" from cramming their views onto those who believe differently -- absolutely --
If you actually understood the teaching of your chosen god you would not have such vile in your heart to spew your venom -- Happy Holidays to you anyway -- look in your mirror and you can see what intolerance really looks like
rbach: I don't believe Christians own the country; no one owns the country. Christians are not trying to stop others from believing what they believe. If you believed in Kazoo as your God or source of enlightenment and 50 million other Americans believed in Kazoo and you had a Kazoo sale, I could care less. I wouldn't waste my time trying to stop it. By the same token, if a large part of the population is Christian, it only stands to reason that there would be a bias toward Christian beliefs. Not by everyone and I respect that. The same if you go to Iraq or Iran. The majority there believe in Allah. They would not stop praising Allah just because others of different views told them they didn't agree. I guess we can agree to disagree and that is fine. Happy Holidays!
renkonk
ok so you are not 1 of the many "christians" who believe they own the country -- I hear them all the time blathering nonsense about the US being a "christian" country -- it is not the first amendment guarantees that but the small thing like the constitution doesn't stop them from trying to push their non-values onto all that is how god got into the pledge of allegiance and how it got onto our money they stop at nothing to take total control -- that is where I take issue -- I hear all these different brand of "christians" tearing others down all the time -- hell the born agains hate the catholics and call them name, the catholics and born agains are against the mormons etc, etc, etc they cannot even get along with others who pray to the same god as they do -- thus I form my opinion they are a sorry lot indeed and have nothing unless they can be bashing someone or cramming their beliefs onto others-- when it comes to this idiotic war on christmas -- that my friend was started by the "christians" when the retailers wanted to be inclusive of all and started saying Happy Holidays well those "good ole christians" just got into a feeding frenzy and now many of them spew with much vile and contempt for all when they say merry christmas -- that is why I will always tell them no thank you but Happy Holidays to you
rbach: there are Christian groups out there that have beliefs that are mind-boggling. I have a Luthern friend that believes and preaches that if you don't believe Jesus Christ is savior and only by believing in Him will you be allowed to go to heaven. Though I believe in Jesus I take issue with that narrow minded thinking. There are a great number of non- Christians that will be going to heaven considerating there is a heaven. For one to judge another is plain wrong. Yet these Christian groups are the first to condemn radical Muslim groups for their narrow mindedness. The bottom line is believe in what you want and respect what others believe in. Walking the walk is much more than talking the talk. Peace.
If you actually understood the teaching of your chosen god you would not have such vile in your heart to spew your venom
LOL
The venom you spew illustrates your intolerance quite nicely. If not, out of respect for other individuals and showing tolerance to another person's belief, whether you agree with it or not, you would have no problem saying "Merry Christmas" in return out of respect.
Please stop bull@!$%#ting about your obvious intolerance toward religious faiths.
Happy Holidays!
But isnt that the whole point of this article? They are trying to force retailers to put "Christmas" in their advertisiments.
Im sure out of respect rbach would say merry christmas to you if you would greet him with the same in whatever faith he belives in, but should he be forced to? Like tha AFA is trying to force retailers to recognize christmas?
This is showing that the AFA is trying to push their beliefs onto others.
Good point Pete. But who forced it out? It had been there so long, it probably should have been left alone. Like I told rbach, if 50 million people believed in Kazoo and had a Kazoo sale, I wouldn't give a hoot. If this had been a "holiday season" for the past hundred years and suddenly people are trying to change it to "Christmas" it would be one thing. But that's not the case. I've always shopped to decorate my "Christmas tree", not my "holiday tree". Don't see the big deal in this.
gwaarin -- I see you still do not realize the truth about you trying to put words in my mouth and either you enjoy spreading lies or just are incapable of reading without adding your twist to what I actually wrote you do not deserve any more of my time
nsmalltownpete
EXACTLY -- personally if a group like AFA is for something I know full well it is bad for humanity they have no values I am interested in teaching my kids -- they spew nothing but bigotry and hate for all who believe differently and go around trying to stick their noses into everyone's business If I know someone is christian I will say merry christmas otherwise will great folks with either seasons greeting or happy holidays
Ronkonk are you trying to say just because no one realized how disrespectful it was to assume all were celebrating christmas for so long that we should just keep doing it?? What do you say to people of color just because the N word was used for so long we should just keep doing it?
I shop for my holiday decorations don't believe I have a single merry christmas one but many happy holidays and seasons greetings -- just because something that is bothering folks goes on for a long time does not mean we should just keep doing the same thing and keep bothering or hurting others -- or do you simply think I am wrong headed with this?
rbachWhat do you say to people of color just because the N word was used for so long we should just keep doing it?
You've gone from ridiculous to absolute stupidity.
vialjay,
Then "Christmas" and "his" birthday, wouldn't be celebrated until the end of Summer, or the beginning of Fall, because that is actually when Jesus was said to have been born.
This fight about being PC is ridiculous. If Christians wish to celebrate the birth of Christ 8 - 10 months early, then so be it, and say Merry Christmas. If others have other religious beliefs, then so be it. What is the big deal? If you are Christian, and you are outraged and agered by all of this, then you are pooring way too much energy into something that is irrelevant. Boy there are alot of angry, self righteous Christians out there. It's not your way or else, it's universal. Happy Holiday's was the easiest way to extend holiday wishes to everyone regardless of religious backgrounds in one fail swoop, without having to individually acknowledge each religion.
Im not telling anyone to call it a holiday tree, but as for marketing and advertisments, christmas is not the only reason people are shopping this time of year. So for some to say that Christmas is being exploited and must be put in ads or risk being boycotted by the AFA organization and its followers is wrong.
As to your question about who forced it out, who cares? I dont care whether walmart says merry christmas or happy holidays or whatever it wants. But at the same time, why are some trying to force christmas onto retailers. Too me it makes christians look bad. Ive always called it a chirstmas tree but im not religious what so ever. I was raised roman catholic as a child, but my ideals changed through education and now I have a more scientfic belief.
rbach: equating saying "Merry Christmas" with using the "N" word is assinine and honestly, you sound like you have a bit too much intelligence to seriously make such a comparision. I find it difficult for one to feel total disrespect when they hear another say"Merry Christmas". If they do reply, I don't believe in Christmas, but Happy Holidays. I'm sure the reply you would get would be, Oh sorry, Happy Holidays. I think both Christians and non-Christians are making way too much of this.
Ronkonkoma Chet, I haven't been involved in your conversation with rbach, so, please forgive me for the intrusion, however, I have a quick comment. I don't celebrate Christmas, I do celebrate during the Holiday Season. I have been told Merry Christmas by some, and when I said I don't celebrate Christmas, a couple of things happened, but I have rarely been told Oh, sorry, Happy Holidays. I've been looked at like I was some freak, I've actually been told Oh, well, then you must not be Christian - and in that case, you're going to hell. More times than not (if I've taken the time to say anything), I get some sort of belittling comment.
I said it earlier, and I'll say it again. I do say Happy Holidays UNLESS I know what the person is celebrating (in that case, I'll say Merry Christmas; Happy Hannukah or whatever else is appropriate). I do this because I am wishing them happiness in whatever they are celebrating. If I presume someone to be Christian, and wish them a Merry Christmas, and they aren't Christian - then I haven't really wished them happiness in their celebration. Happy Holidays pretty much covers any celebration during this time of the year (using modern definitions). I want my greeting to be about the person receiving my greeting, not about me.
Summer: it's never an intrusion to join in the conversation. I welcome all comments and to be honest with you, there are things I learn from dialogue with others. You sound like a true person and I respect that you would wish someone you know a "Merry Christmas". It annoys me that others would object to you not wanting to hear that. As I said in my earlier comments, no one owns this country; no race, religion or gender. Those who think they are greater than others are a sad lot. Especially those who claim if you do not acknowledge Jesus, you are not going to heaven. I'm a Christian and my in laws are Jewish. My father-in-law has earned a ticket to heaven by the way he has lived his life. Who is anyone to say differently? Jesus taught tolerance, it's a shame his supposed followers don't do the same. I only want to be able to say "Merry Christmas" without being castigated. And I wouldn't say it to just anyone, just the ones I know who would want to hear it. And like you, I have no problem wishing anyone a Happy Chanukah, Happy Kwanzaa or Happy Holidays. On that note, Happy Holidays and Good Will to all.
Rokonkoma Chet, Thank you. I also respect that you are willing to say Happy Chanukah (I am such a horrible speller and I've seen it spelled several ways, I'm never sure which is the right way, since you have Jewish In-Laws, I assume your spelling is probably more accurate than how I spelled it earlier), Happy Kwanzaa, etc., etc. The way I see it this time of year is special to a lot of people for a variety of reasons - and I want people to enjoy their celebrations, whether they are celebrating the same as me or not.
You're right - Jesus taught tolerance. So did many other religious figures. It's too bad that people so often seem to fail at following their examples and teachings.
Merry Christmas to you and your family and a Happy Chanukah to those in your family celebrating that and a Happy New Year to you all :)
Thank you Summer. Happy and Healthy New Year to you and you family.
ronkonk
So exactly how is it asinine comparing calling someone something, anything that bothers them to saying merry christmas -- granted there is different levels of both but none the less they do the same thing they bother people -- when "christians" assume all should follow in their beliefs as many if not most do that bothers me -- so now you are saying you want to be the judge regarding if the bother is important enough to worry about --- I will put to you and all "christians" if jesus was around today he would be the very last to assume anything and he would be inclusive of all and conscience of all peoples feeling and beliefs and would simply say happy holidays
rbach: just as you said, there are different levels of expression that cause harm to people. If one got mad at their mom and said "Oh mom, you such a pain" compared to "Oh, mom you're such a _itch or even worse, C you next Tuesday, there is a world of difference in the level of degration. So to you compare hearing "Merry Christmas" to a black hearing the "N" word is an asinine comparision. As I said in my prior post to Summer, Jesus taught tolerance. It's a shame people don't follow his example, both Christian and non-Christian.
ronkonk
I suppose it is asinine only if one needs a threshold of pain or harm before they care what another person feels -- to me if something is cause discomfort to a person it matters not what that level is, if I am concerned about another persons feelings I need not put the pain or harm on a scale to try and justify my actions-- I just need to understand I am causing pain or hurt
So again it would only be asinine if you need a certain level of harm or pain before you start to consider changes your actions -- didn't think it needed to be to scale
It was not just jesus who taught tolerance, many people of no faith has been taught tolerance and yes it is a shame all people do not practice tolerance minus any scale
So according to your logic, you're hurting people who wish to be miserable, grouchy, or are depressed by wishing them "Happy Holidays". Too bad you don't practice what you preach. And by the same logic, a winning team that has just caused harm to to a losing team because the losing team is feeling discomfort in the fact they are not celebrating is equivalent to the venom spewed out at a Neo-Nazi cross burning. I guess your one of those that believes that all contests should end in a tie so no one feels bad.
ronkonk
wow what a stretch -- you must be in your "christian" mode and ignoring the real conversation and need to blow your smoke -- we are taking name calling and pushing your beliefs onto others your nonsense about a sporting event is just lots of BS but not as much crap as your neo-mazi cross burning --do you not know the difference between actions, names and threats??? --the type of BS I expect from the real "christians" on here
Dude, I can see when you cannot answer the issue you're response is one of attempted intimidation. You are the one who stated clearly that all forms of discomfort are equally alike. I begged to differ, and showed you an example and you go ballistic. By the way, what is a "Christian Mode" and what beliefs am I pushing onto others? I think you were picked on a lot as a kid. I'll pray for you my friend, even if you don't believe in Jesus. If he doesn't exist no harm done; if he does who knows what may happen? Happy Holidays.
ronkonk
Yet again you are obviously in your "christian mode" casting judgment and twisting my words and hijacking the conversation -- your attempt to add in the sporting even scenario and the neo-nazis cross burning -- see everything to this point was a discussion in name calling or different phrases that may cause a person discomfort/harm -- you trying to equate that actions/threats -- that my friend is "christian mode" basically blow as much smoke with off topic crap that people will just throw their hands up and give up -- which gives the "christians" the wrong impression that they somehow won the argument
your bs about intimidation and what you may or may not think happened to me as a kid well that is just more of what I expect dealing with a "christian" just baseless assumptions/judgment and twisting of words -- you get an "A" for effort but no points for trying to cloud the debate
Happy Holidays
rbach: when it was in it's simpliest from you didn't answer my question. I'll try again. According to your logic, saying "Happy Holidays" is a slap in the face to everyone who is sad. Two million Americans have just had their unemployment benefits stopped. I don't think they are "Happy". I've been to two funerals these past two weeks, I don't think their immediate families are "Happy". Several people have just been killed by drunk drivers; don't see a lot of "Happy " people there. So who are you to impose your "Happy Holidays" onto others? You say it's painful to hear "Merry Christmas",yet you project your "Happy Holidays" onto others. By your logic, you are a hypocrite. By the way, I saw someone yesterday with a button that said, " It's okay to say "Merry Christmas to me". This may solve all issues. You can wear one that says', it's okay to say "Happy Holidays to me. And everyone can wear what they want to hear so that one doesn't mistakenly upset the PC applecart by, God forbid, I mean heaven forbid, don't want to impose God on you, saying the wrong thing. If you relpy, it's okay to say "Merry Christmas to me. Happy, Happy,Happy Holidays!!!!!!!
so ronkomk it appears you are incapable of having a straight line discussion you seem to have a dire need to insert your ridiculous circular bs that has nothing to do with the issue at hand -- which by the way is part of the "christian mode" crap I have talked about
You are the one inserting the slap in the face crap I said it was being disrespectful of any non-christian -- question why is it all your type of "christians" need to get into violence -- like slap in the face, burning neo-nazis crosses, the war on christmas -- always seems you need to be fighting something
Your BS about wishing people at funerals happy holidays is nothing more than you showing your true colors or your total lack of understanding this discussion
I never said it was painful to hear anything -- yet more of your trying to twist words
The only one being a hypocrite here is you -- since you claim to be a good christian -- that tells people you must have an understanding of the teachings of christ -- yet you blather your intolerance -- that is you being a hypocrite
Happy Holidays ( that includes whatever you believe in or not)
See in the past I could not give 2 @!$%#s what greeting people used, it wasn't until all the holier than thou, self righteous "christians" and their "christian hate groups" like the afa declared a war on christmas -- that is when I thought enough is enough -- these hypocrites will take 10 miles if you give them an inch like the way they crammed god into the pledge and crammed god onto our currency I just want all these "christian" folks to stay the hell out of our government and pray all they want in their tax payer funded churches (many of which are nothing more than hate clubs)
lol is right holy cow! these two are incredible. I have to admit though, I am leaning toward Rbach on this one. Im not saying I agree with everything he has been saying, but the movement to try and FORCE retailers to put Christmas in their ads is ridiculous. If christians were tolerant, this article would have never been written. I think over the past 3000 years history has shown christians to be anything but tolerant. From holy wars, to the corruption the church caused in the middle ages, all I see is self righteous people trying to force thier way of life onto others and using positions of power to corrupt and advance their agenda.
I second that LOL. ROTFLMAO. The fuse has been lit again. Cannot answer the question at hand so rant,rant,rant and name call etc, etc, etc. I don't know why something you don't believe in troubles you so much. This anger is not good for the soul. I don't believe in Kazoo but if 50 million others did and wanted to have a Kazoo sale, you know what, I wouldn't care. And as much as others can cross lines and say, Happy Holidays, Happy Chanukah, Happy Kwanzaa, you still can't. That's a reflection of your intolerance that you try to project onto others. Bottom line, I'm secure enough to wish others in their greeting; for the holiday is about giving, something you are incapable of doing. I am done with this dialogue for it serves no more purpose than to waste my time so I'll leave on this note, "Happy Holidays"!!!!! . And to any Christians out ther who may be reading this"MERRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYY CHRISTMAS", to any Jewish folk, "HAPPY CHANUKAH", to any African Americans, "HAPPY KWANZAA".
ronlonk
it is you who blathers crap that is not relevant to the discussion and deserves no answer -- as to you judging yet again based on false information is just more of your hypocrisy coming forward
you are not even close to showing you can have a discussion without putting on your "christian mode" blowing smoke and blathering about irrelevant crap -- as to your idiot leap about anger -- that is truly laughable -- see I am fully capable of tolerance and happily say Happy Holidays which is inclusive of all celebrations going on -- I have no need to direct my good wishes to a single group and inadvertently leave out someone as you consistently do
Yet again since I will not allow you to get into your "christian mode" you will falsely claim the high ground all the while you lost the debate a long time ago when you first started with your "christian mode" crap -- no anger here just will continue to state the facts
have a HAPPY HOLIDAY which ever you chose to celebrate or not, you obviously do not practice what you try to preach
smalltownpete
your point is exactly what I have been basing my posts on -- the most intolerant bunch of people I know are self proclaimed "christians" heck just look at their leaders all spewing hate and intolerance from their pulpits and the mindless sheep just going along and thinking they are the ones with any values worth talking about --- bunch of haters and hypocrites -- as you stated if it weren't for the intolerance of "christians" this would not even be a discussion
Small town pete: you are 100% correct that for 3,000 years Christians have not been tolerant. But I do believe we have come a long way since the days of the Reformation. There are some Christians out there that are very narrow minded and there are an awful lot who aren't. There are a lot of intolerant Muslims out there who want to kill you for not believing in Allah. I really don't see many Christians who plan on killing non-believers. You get your occasional whack-job that will kill an abortionist, but they are a rare speciman which the rest of most Christians abhor their behavior. As far as religion goes, if 86% of the people believe in God and 14% do not, what would you expect the majority to state? That because there is 14% who don't agree with them, take down everything that has to do with their beliefs? I have no problem wishing someone a "Happy Holiday", but by the same token I should not not be scorned by saying"Merry Christmas". And I would not make an issue to form a boycott to pressure stores to promote Christmas, personally I have a lot better things to do with my time. Live and let live. Happy holidays!
rbach: the only hate I've ever heard spewed from the pulpit was Reverend Wright, our President's mentor. Just wondering: if you don't believe in Jesus and possibly God, how would you know they spew hate from the pulpits? Can you send me a you-tube of such actions? Do you sneak into houses of worship and videotape thes sermons? I'd love to see one if you can produce it and I will gladly show tapes of love and kindness being preached. Game on.
Thank you Gwaarin. I will end it here. I am officially done.
Ronkon, I have a few problems with your statements. First of all, 86% believe in god. This is a misleading fact to try and show how christmas is in the majority. 86% of the people on this planet might have religious views, but they do not all believe in god, Or in the same god as you at least. Next your saying that since 86% believe and the other 14%(the minority), which is an assumption by the way, are telling you to take down your decorations? UM no one said take down your decorations. By all means decorate and say Merry Christmas to anyone you wish. We are not scorning anyone for wishing others goodwill. BUT WE WILL NOT BE FORCED TO SAY IT. In that 86% there are many religions, so if retailers are being forced to say merry christmas, why shouldnt they be forced to put right next to it all the other greetings for each religion. Equality is what this nation is about, whether your a minority or not. No one belief is to be raised above any other. If you want to walk down the road and see christian signs on every shop, then move to a country that is not a secular nation.
ronkonk
Apparently you live in a very small world and ignore all going on around you -- very funny and telling that the only hate speech you have heard was from reverend wright -- that tells me an awful lot, well that and your posts in general
Open up some news pages and you will see very quickly hate speech coming from the pope, robertson, etc, etc, etc the list is long and deep
here are a few links for your education on this topic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQQz33CJUik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AehWkV9xKSU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLnQbgskLnA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59NCduEhkBM
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/07/beck_hatemongers.html
oh yes ronkon there are many, many, many hundreds if not thousands of these "christian" ministers preaching nothing but hate and intolerance -- perhaps you have one of the few who isn't a hate monger
rbach: if you want to get into Christian violence, take a look in the mirror-http://atheismexposed.tripod.com/atheist_crimes.htm
THE CRIMES AND EVILS OF MILITANT ATHEISM
Atheists are quick to point out that throughout history large numbers of people were killed in the name of Religion; but they fail to mention the countless millions who were killed by leaders who worshipped themselves or by militant atheist-Communists who were driven by a hatred for God and Religion.
"The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression, published by Harvard University Press, is the work of eleven scholars that ignited a continental firestorm when it first hit bookstores in France in 1997. The authors estimate the century's death toll at the hands of Communist governments (excluding wars) at 100 million people. Country by country, deaths by the state in China stand at 65 million, in the USSR 20 million, Vietnam 1 million, North Korea 2 million, Cambodia 2 million, Eastern Europe 1 million, Latin America 150,000, Africa 1.7 million, and Afghanistan 1.5 million. Additionally, the international Communist movement murdered about 10,000 people throughout the world." (Author's emphasis).
Daniel J Flynn, "Ideas Have Consequences... Like Murder, Tyranny, and Repression," Accuracy in Academia, (9 July, 2008).
I rest my case. Thank You.
how very "christian" of you ronkon -- you and your ilk totally ignore facts and always look to change the topic -- it seems to be very easy to be one of you folks -- simply ignore anything and everything you do not agree with and throw BS out and otherwise just blow smoke, point your fingers and twist the conversation
Yes indeed you asked for links and I gave them so rather than you having an intelligent discussion on the links, that prove you to be wrong-- you just blow more smoke -- you get an "A" for twisting and turning and an "F" for intelligent discussing abilities
So I guess it is easy when you just stick your head in the sand and rest your losing case
Happy Holidays
Here's a thought - since December 25th is officially known as Christmas day, isn't wishing a Merry Christmas basically wishing the other person has a good day on December 25th? If i tell you to have a good day when you leave my store and it is February 8th are you going to get offended because you don't like early February or just say thank you? Geez. Merry Christmas, happy all the other holidays, and I sure hope every day of the year is good for all of you.
Lighten up.
Outotlunch, this isnt about someone wishing us a merry christmas. If you celebrate it and want to hang decorations in your store, thats your right. I would be one to wish you a merry christams back, but for those owners who dont celebrate christmas, should they be forced to put up christmas signs?
Nope, no one is forced to do anything, nor should they be. I am just responding to the people who get so offended if they are wished a Merry Christmas. Just smile and say thanks, don't have to rain on someone else's parade.
SmallTownPetebut for those owners who dont celebrate christmas, should they be forced to put up christmas signs?
That's silly...
I think it is a backlash against all things PC.
2 years ago on the 4th of July, somebody said "Happy Holiday" to me. It had gotten to the point where we could not even say "Happy Thanksgiving" or Happy 4th or July or Merry Christmas without offending anyone.
I have Muslim and Jewish friends and they wish me Merry Christmas and I wish them Happy Ramadan and Happy Hannukah.
Let's celebrate diversity and holidays rather than squashing it.
That is right, celebrate diversity! Kuddos to you...I wish I could say I feel your sentiments were more vastily accepted. We can all celebrate different faiths and yet be united in our nationality and morality.
The US needs more Christians like you Gary!
Agreed would it be fair to say happy fourth of July if communists or muslims were objected to it?
Totally agreed. I mean if retailers wish to exclude other religious populations, thats their choice. Consumers will vote with their wallet. However, I dont even see a point, why exclude potential sales just because you want to be a 'cool kid' who doesn't care about political correctness? Money is money.
Gary420...The second word in your last sentence in the last paragraph, "Celebrate" is the reason all human beings look for a reason to throw off the mundanities, the inanities and the routines that make them feel robotic. If there is a season when people speak a little softer and less vitriolic, when they are more generous toward each other, when they can freely smile without being sent off to an asylum for doing so, what possible harm can there be in any celebration that would engender such an atmosphere?
God Bless Us One And All. "Charles Dickens"
So it's cool if I call the war in Iraq the rape and murder of innocent men,women and children caused by our destruction of their government and infrastructure?, 'cause that's the non-PC term for war.
People who toss about the term "PC" as a negative term have their own little PC sacred cows.
Gary,
I think that the 4th of July and Thanksgiving are completely different. They are not religious holidays, but are uniquely American. With respect to the story, retailers don't have much issue with calling a sale a 4thy of July or Independence Day sale. Thanksgiving is pretty much the same. The problem retailers run into is if they say Merry Christmas, other religious groups may complain. If they say Happy Holidays, Christians feel slighted.
You have to remember that political correctness is in the eye of the beholder. Boycotting a store because they don't say Merry Christmas is as much an issue of PC as is saying Happy Holidays because someone is offended that you say Merry Christmas. To discard the notion of PC, it should not matter if a store advertises Holiday sales, Christmas sales or just call it end of the year sales.
The fact that people tie their religious beliefs with the sales and marketing practices of retailers is somewhat bizarre in any case.
FatSean, if you truly believe that is what our military personnel are doing or causing, I feel sorry for you. As a citizen of this country, I hope you will never know what it’s like to live in such a hostile, brutal world where the very right to voice your opinion is a luxury you are not afforded and can be killed for. Iraqis were tortured, terrorized and forced into extreme poverty by their corrupt government. Over 90% of Iraqis never had to access to the infrastructure you mention prior to the war. Our military is not perfect but the vast majority of them are heroes not only to MOST Americans but also to many Iraqis. You don’t have to be PC about the Iraq War, but at least be accurate.
FatSean,
No, that's not the "non-PC" term for war. That's your "I want to be insulting and piss you off" term for war.
War is war. There is no "PC" term for it.
Your analogy is not even remotely similar to what this thread is about.
I agree!
Happy Holiday being wished to me by a retailer means nothing; they don't care what the heck kind of holiday I have as long as I buy something.
If someone I don't know replies, "It's okay for you to wish me a Merry Christmas" after I say "Happy Holiday", well that is just plain rude. Be polite and say "thank you".
Friends and family is where it counts. People I love who celebrate Hanukkah and Christmas get the non-generic greeting.
Absolutely TennisMom2. I am not a Christian, but send greetings this time of year. I send a New Year's greeting, a celebration of the past year and fresh beginnings for the year to come!
I have had relatives say they are offended that I don't 'just send a Christmas card like everyone else'...what in the world? I simply smile and tell them I mean no ill will, only to send a note of happiness to those I don't get to see very often.
It is rudeness and intolerance that have created all of this craziness. Celebrate how you choose, don't bully others for what they believe, simply be joyous and grateful for life.
It's not about just saying "Merry Christmas." It's how liberals have pushed and pulled on warping Christmas and everything that stands for Christmas in a commercial sense. First they say lets call the Christmas trees "Holiday Trees." Let's take Christmas out of store ads and call it "Holiday." Why don't they pick on Hannukah and call it a Holiday manora or call a Thanksgiving turkey a Holiday Turkey. Come on now. It's all this PC b.s. that has people upset and the liberals are to blame for all this mumbo jumbo.
LoudMouth, it is true, things are way out of hand with being 'sensitive', but I will give you a perspective on the flipside, my family is ultra-conservative, most are proud tea party followers (I don't say that negatively, just as a point of reference). They are the first to berate and push their beliefs on others. Going so far as to tell my children they 'know' their parents (aka, my husband and I) are condemning them to hell for following a 'pagan' religion (we are Buddhists). It is very off-putting, but I simply smile and wish them well...choosing the high road, as that is what my children should learn is the proper execution of both our faith and our values, and it just feels so much better not to engage in negativity. It is not beneficial to anyone to retaliate, but I can understand how that will push people and the virtual 'pendulum' swinging so far in the opposite direction towards the fanatical calling everything 'holiday' this or that. Though most Americans celebrate Christmas, there are in fact several other religious holidays celebrated (not always, some are not tied to a direct calendar date) during this time of year...not just Judiasm, though that is more prevelant in the US than some of the other faiths.
I suppose the issue is multifaceted, not just liberals or just conservatives, but we, as Americans and people, can simply choose not to engage the trivial. We can embrace our diversity, respect our unique qualities and engage our similarities without hostility.
Definite total lack of the ole Christmas Spirit on this thread. You all can argue about the true birthdate of Jesus Christ, your rights aa believers or non-believers, the level of commercialization, which branch of christianity you grow up in... whatever.
All I can say is that you are a full on grinch if you can't enjoy hanging out with friends and/or family, exchanging presents, slugging back some eggnog (spiked or not), and listening to Bing Crosby while a Christmas Tree twinkles and makes the room smell like... well, Christmas :)
My family doesn't just do these things at this time of year, Hmmmmmmm, we spend time together very often, even outside of my immediate family at least monthly.
The true spirit, though I am not a Christian, we do engage (throughout the year, but more so with adopting family at this time of year), which is charity. My sons help in soup kitchens, care packages to soldiers, adopting families to help ensure even those with less have a wonderful season. This is the true nature of the holiday, or should be...not slugging back eggnog and exchanging presents. That is the story and teachings of Christ, as a non-Christian, I know this.
With human nature the way it is, good luck regarding what you said in your last paragraph, I dont see that happening anytime soon, and you cant blame the monkies for that, lol!
Slugging back eggnog... breaking bread... sharing a meal or a freshly made cookie.... REALLY? You really have a problem with that????
Exchanging presents is not about "getting something". Have you never been touched by the generosity and thoughtfulness of another or quietly lit a fire in your heart as another unwraps their gift with bright eyes? If you cannot relate to this, you are either social deprived or an arrogant troll. I vote for troll.
No, no problem with it at all, I was merely pointing out it is not the reason behind the season. My kids, husband and I will get up Christmas morning, because we are fortunate that it is a day off for him, and spend the day helping those less fortunate. Not engaged in the trappings of commercialism. My children are blessed with the fortunate to not want for things, they get up early just to make sure they are up and at it early.
Most of Christmas and the gift exchange to which you speak is not the rosy scenario you portray, it is what this 'retailor' driven thread exemplifies, commercialism and gluttony. Going into debt for 'physical stuff'...though unlike your negativity, I would not name call or accuse you of engaging in less than a rosy scenario.
suseq, good call, but we can all lead by example, stumble along the way, and keep working towards the positive!
i was going to say that if you do not like the saying of happy holidays just turn to a different channel/station or just get over the fact that there are other people in the world that do not celebrate christmas so get over it
No they don't change the names Just the days and months some times !!!! But Jesus is the reason for the season, anad what our country was founded on . WAS FREEDOM! which by the way IS NOT FREE! It is paid for by the blood of our young men and women to keep it free. Jesus also shed his blood that we might be free to practice the religion of our choice ! But to this wife of a Vietnam Vetran who served 3 times IT WILL ALWAYS BE MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Lol I was going to right one of my usually long winded responses.....but I decided against it. I have NEVER stopped saying "Merry Christmas." When it was not politically correct I said it even more.....hell there were points that I would scream it from the roof top just for fun.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!
That's great....screaming MERRY CHRISTMAS at people just hoping to piss 'em off. That's the true holiday spirit.
Actually if it is politically correct I try to avoid it. I have no problems with being politically incorrect just for the sake of being politically incorrect unless it is blatantly derogatory. I fail to see how "Merry Christmas" is any more offensive than saying the sky is blue. Gotta be careful with that one or you may just p!ss off someone who is blue/green color blind. When will this stupidity end?
I would have liked to have screamed it from the roof tops.....but I didn't. Seems like too much effort just to p!ss people off......but I NEVER stopped saying "Merrry Christmas" nor do I have any intention of ever doing so. Personally I am offended by happy holidays.....it seems to be lacking substance and for the sole sake of being politically correct.....which offends me in and of itself.
hey as a matter of fact I object to the 4th of July celebration in Texas - None of the western states were English colonies - the 4th celebrates independence of the colonies from England.
I know but it sells falgs, brisket and beer.
Merry 4th, er pass another brewsky.
I posted it before but I did not see it appear:
I object to the western states celebrating the 4th, which celebrates the colonies independece from England - Texas was never an English colony - Feliz cinco de mayo!
No it was never an English colony but it is a state of these united states of America and America is what was created after their independence from England. So yeah it is a holiday the entire country should celebrate.
Ever since it was made a national holiday its religiosity has been removed due to the first amendment. This, Christian Warriors, is commonly known as "blowback."
#3 - Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:21 AM ESTIt was the RETAILORS who started this to increase the buyer base. Then republicans (as always) picked it up to use it as a party talking point. Now the RETAILORS are in fear of losing money so they are flip-flopping. Christmas is and has always been "Christmas" and "Happy Holidays" at our house. .A retailor or political party isn't going to change that. If those two grups can change your family's traditions, then you are a weak minded sheep. I do understand many people do not celebrate Christmas, and that is their right since we live in the U.S.A. which is a FREE country to worship however we want. That includes which holidays people celebrate.
#4 - Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:22 AM ESTDamn right! Christians are the majority in this country and retailers best not forget it. When you liberals get your wish and let the Muslims take over the U.S. then you can call Christmas whatever you want. Then you guys can bow down and sing Muslim holiday songs!
You "no" people are right... Let's rename a few other things:
Santa Clause - The weight challenged jovial person in the red suit.
Menora - The Holiday Candlestick
The Dradle - The Holiday Top
The Kinaras - The wooden Holiday Candlestick
Gifts (for you athiests) - Selfless object exchanges or allowances
The Star of David - The Festive Triangular Symbol
Seriously you people that want to Homogenize society need to grow thicker skin, you take yourselves WAY to seriously.
Wow you people are all nuts!!!! This has nothing to do with a christmas take over. Nothing to do with muslims, jews or any other religion. This is about advertisments. Just because retailers dont put christmas in their ads or comercials the AFA is trying to say they are exploiting christmas. Did any of you read the article?!?!?!?! The AFA needs to get real, personally it doesnt matter to me whether walmart calls it christmas or "the holidays". It doesnt change anything in my life, or any of your lives. I think the Amercian FAMILY Association needs to focus on more important things, like feeding homeless children.... Helping needy families hit by the ressecion, anything besides this waste of time BS, because honestly will what they advertise change they way you celebrate the holidays???????????????
Santa Claus is a real person, Sarah Palin is not!
#5 - Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:23 AM ESTThanks for the laughs David and Rob! Palin IS the Grinch...but I still think that doesn't qualify her as a 'person'. hehe
It's not that Sarah Palin is real she is. The real question should be whether we wish that she not be.
Funny how liberals are completely obsessed with Sarah Palin to the point that they cannot have a discussion on Christmas without bashing her, then they wonder why she keeps getting so much attention...
I'm sorry, someone else brought it up and I just couldn't resist.
That's because they are stupid and can only key in on one thing a year!!!
I read this post and breezed past it a couple times just to ignore it. You know there hasn't been one Obama bashing yet on this, but there has been a Palin and a Conservative bashing so far. Funny how pathetic the D party can get. I think libs should go find Blumenthal and deceive people by lying about going over to a country where over 50,000 US troops died. This would be Vietnam by the way. But if they did go over there then they don't have to worry about Christmas. Or feel like they are getting bullied.
On Sarah Palin, I believe Barbara Bush said it best this past week, "She should stay in Alaska."
If we elected Santa Claus as president, would (he? she? IT?) do any worse job than the past occupants?
Ok seriously,
Did you people have to bring politics into this? Really?
*sigh* It's becoming increasingly obvious that Americans are far too obsessed with politics and politicians these days...and not in a good way. The level of hatred some of you seem to have for people you don't even know is borderline psychotic...and that goes for BOTH sides.
Get a grip.
Any store that has "Christmas" in its signs, I will be bypassing. Count on that!
This is a secular society, and I resent one religion constantly being promoted ahead of the others. Why is there no other national holidays for other religions? Why isn't Happy Ramadan or whatever being plastered all over the place.
ALL religious imagery should be illegal in public, as far as im concerned. Except on Churches or religious properties. Beyond that, real diversity should be promoted and NO single religion should be hoisted above the rest.
edit: And NO I dont like that we have Christian Holidays shoved on us all either. That should not be happening either.
You have two secular holidays every weekend. Why deny Christians their day?
I dont want to deny anyone anything, what I dont want is it shoved on me. Why do I have to miss work? Why do I have to have a holiday for a religion I dont practice.
Christians should be allowed to take a day off for it, and thats it. Same for other religions and their holidays. No one religion should be shoved on EVERYBODY.
Dear Freedom,
It wasn't our government that declared Dec 25th as Christmas. That tradition predates the United States of America. You are free to celebrate whatever religious holiday you wish. I'm sure that if you were to travel to an Arab country in the Mid-East, Islamic holidays would be predominant, so why deny Christians their Christmas...or worse, try to make it be something else. By the way, a recent pole in the USA showed more than 80% of the people claim to be Christian. By this statistic alone, I would expect to "see" more Christmas than any other religious holiday. Why do you think that you have to buy gifts and celebrate a holiday next month if you don't believe in Christmas? Nobody is forcing you to.
This holiday exists because of a religious faith so get over it or choose not to participate. Santa Claus can even be traced back to Christianity. There truly was a St Nicholas. He left needed items at the doorstep of the poor.
But I am forced to, I have no choice but to take a holiday. I have no choice but to have this holiday displayed everywhere I go in public. I cant escape it unless I live in bunker.
I resent having your religious holiday shoved upon me.
Are you telling me that you would not want a day off?? Are you telling me that you do not want the discounts that surround Christmas? Go to work and pay full price if you like if you want to feel good about yourself.
Agree with you David. I've never heard anyone say anything like that before. A victim of a Christmas day off? Life must really suck.
Of course I like days off and discounts, but how would you feel if it was called DARWIN DAY?
Not so funny now is it...
Of course I like days off and discounts, but how would you feel if it was called DARWIN DAY?
Not so funny now is it...
Christmas is Christmas, but if folks want a Darwin day, go to it, no objection at all.
Yes, the celebration is invasive, but you can either choose to see it as a horrible season of torture or, you can acknowledge you have an extra day to yourself to get working on a home project, brush up your resume if you've been meaning to, plan a family dinner (not in celebration, but b/c you have the day off, cook yourself a nice meal for enjoyment). You might actually start looking forward to the season.
The more you gripe about being FORCED to celebrate, the more people are going to ignore you, or avoid you for negativity.
But, if you respectfully tell people it's not a holiday you celebrate, but you wish them a joyous time, the more likely they'll respect you for your choice, and they won't push it so hard on you.
My sister is an Atheist - I don't send her a Christmas gift; but we have a tradition that when there's an extra day off work for a holiday, we exchange bubble bath, a novel, or a craft project to celebrate an extra "Day of Relaxation".
You can still call it Christmas, or Hanakkuh, or Yule, there's a lot of history and culture that contributed to these terms, so we might as well celebrate the developing traditions; you don't necessarily have to believe, you don't have to be PC, you just have to be respectful.
You have two secular holidays every weekend. Why deny Christians their day?
Umm I would hardly count the weekends as holidays. Yes you get work off, but to me a holiday is more then not having to go to work. How about remembering the spirit of the holiday and think about more than sitting on your couch watching football this holiday season eh?
Enough with persecuting Christians, such hypocrisy to claim freedom for everyone and then demand Christmas be eliminated. Christmas being shoved down your throat, ridiculous. Most Christians argue that Christmas is secularized these days anyway. What about a Christmas Tree, Santa Claus and going shopping is Christian anyway? Retailers are just out to make a buck, just like any other holiday (e.g. Halloween)
Feel free to go to work on Christmas, nothing is stopping you. I'll be working. The majority of America celebrates Christmas for one reason or another (christians and non-christians) so it makes sense that it's a holiday. I'm sure all the anti-Christians will be refusing holiday bonuses and extra pay too. When the majority of America is Muslim I will be thrilled to have Ramadan off -isn't that like two weeks? Bring it!
Based on this logic; If you're not a Pilgrim or Native American you shouldn't be celebrating Thanksgiving either. I think it's pathetic that people can look past the origins of every other holiday in favor of celebrating the spirit/meaning (not Irish, but St Patty's Day ok - or Cinco de Mayo?) but be so against Christmas. What are you really against? The horrible and evil spirit of giving, love, family, and helping those less fortunate? You might want to really think about that.
Freedom4Everyone........if you want to work so badly on the holidays, especially Christmas, get a job at McDonals's or Burger King, or even better, a job in retail so you can complain to everyone that comes in to return gifts on Christmas day.
Actually most McDonald's and Burger King's are closed but there are quite a few Chinese restaurants.
Freedom4Everyone...the day I am not allowed to practice my constitutional right to freedom of religion is the day I tar and feather the first knottybrained right winger. Why should only your feelings get top billing? Or, is this just more of that 40 to 50 something selfish, self-important egotism of the Daycare Generation?
Freedom I'm sure someone will let you work.. there are many restaurants and things open on xmas day... I know at my work if I so chose to come in on xmas they would allow either way I get paid the same... now my part time job rocks.. I get double time xmas day whohohooo!!! after xmas sales!!!
Freedom are you telling me to NEVER take advantage of the "sales" pre and post Xmas, never never... not even a big ole turkey or ham at the supermarket they give with the bonus points? Not that tool you wanted sooo bad that is now 50% off???? really never?
Freedom4Everyone. Funny that your 'name' doesn't follow what you are complaining about. Retailers are Free to market their product as they wish and if you don't like it and won't shop there they won't miss you. If it bothers you so much then move out of the country.
David visions of "A Christmas Story" are flashing through my mind... fra ra ra ra ra raaa ra ra ra... LOL Talk about un PC.
I can only imagine the outcry over a Darwin day. We don't even want evolution taught in schools in Texas, Georgia or Southl Carolina. Imagine if we did give it a public credence by discussion it publicly.
Umm.. Many state and union jobs have what are called "Floating Holidays" These are days you may take off to celebrate your faith or hobby. If you don't get paid holidays there are places that are still open on Christmas, go apply there. Chances are your boss or the owner or stakeholders celebrate Christmas and like having the day off. Don't be such a scrooge and force people to work on their holiday. If you work for a private firm it is up to the owner to take Christmas or anytime he wants off and close down shop. You can always start a business and work christmas if you so choose. Damn isn't America Great. I forget who this is quoted by, but don't tread on me or my Christmas.
PS heck I'd enjoy a Darwin Day to acknowledge all the people who are too stupid to survive. I'd watch that Discovery Special. First we'd have to let all regulation and safety slide for a day and see which morons would survive. We could make a week out of it!!
In that case Freedom4Everyone, I will appreciate you sending me all your monetary assets..You know, the ones which say, In God we trust.
Freedom, I see Happy Hanukkah decorations and gifts. Will you ban those as well? Christianity is the predominant religion of course its going to be more prevalent in society.
Go to a middle eastern country and you will find they celebrate religious holidays. I dont think theres anywhere in the WORLD where you can go where religious holidays arent celebrated in some fashion or another.
Let it go...
Freedom4Everyone,
I would like to see you and other anti-Christmas Americans try to get Christmas dropped as a federal holiday. Believe me, it won't be just the Christians complaining!
Contrary to popular ignorance, God, as in "In God We Trust" is not solely a Christian invention. The founding Fathers accepted "In God We Trust" mostly because ll popular religions of the time relied on the belief in a supreme diety.
I heard the the original saying was "In God We Trust, All Others Pay in Cash." I can't confirmthat of course.
Freedom4Everyone, why don't you change your posted name to "FreedomFromEveryone"?
Freedom isn't the same as isolationism. If you think that freedom for you means freedom from other people's customs, culture, etc, then what you're asking for is freedom for you, and not for anyone else.
Hey dude, you should just work on Christmas day, get the double overtime, and thank GOD that you get a bonus. If I got paid double to work on Eid or Kwanzaa or whatever, I'd do it with a smile.
Freedom4, you sound very idealistic. Do you think the commercial bonanza is all about the christian holiday of Christmas? Lemme clue you in - it ain't. It's about cold, hard cash. Moolah. Sales.
The fact is, it's a holiday where people buy a lot of stuff. That creates competition for where their money is spent. If another religion had a similar holiday, I am sure the retailers would be out in force.
I don't celebrate Christmas in the department store. I celebrate it at home with my family and friends.
Freedom4Everyone
so you believe that a privately owned business should not have the right to display celebrations of holidays (being religous or not)? Malls, department stores, and retailers in general are not government owned. Just as you have the right to be offended, they have the right to fluant their views as well, and if they choose to cater to the masses that's just smart business. I personally believe you should just relax, but if you can't, then maybe you should re locate to a country which government has a "tighter" hold on things.
There are folks that are offended by Columbus Day because he began the exploitation of the Native Americans by "discovering" America. Not everyone believes that Martin Luther King deserves the same recognition as Presidents Washington and Lincoln. So everybody gets "days off" that they would "rather work" than honor somebody else's holiday being "shoved down their throat. Get over it, or work all 260 possible weekdays without a designated holiday, it's your call.
uh, because a huge percentage of the population of the U.S. is Christian! I'm not, but it doesn't bother me to be told "Merry Christmas". Don't you have anything else to hate on?
I saw this Christmas cartoon back in the day, one of the characters in it was named Scrooge, ring a bell, bah humbug! And a Merry Christmas to you!!!!!
How ironic that someone with the moniker "Freedom4everyone" should post such a statement. You need to rename yourself to "IntolerantOfEveryoneElsesFreedoms", it would be far more accurate.
ALL religious imagery should be illegal in public, as far as im concerned. Except on Churches or religious properties. Beyond that, real diversity should be promoted and NO single religion should be hoisted above the rest.
It's weird to me that a person calling themselves "Freedom4Everyone", is advocating making religion illegal.
Freedom:
1: the quality or state of being free: as a : the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action
Yet because the majority don't share your opinion on religion you want to jail or fine them for being free to express their religious beliefs? You want (what the government) to "promote real diversity" i.e. make sure that equal portions of people believe certain things? Would you use brainwashing to do that?
Your points are contradictory. Which is it freedom or police state? After all Russia tried what your advocating, tried and failed.
You who wants NOTHING of ANY religion displayed ANYWHERE outside a church or religious affliliation-MOVE to an ISLAND FAR FAR AWAY because it and it's symbolism has been here LONG before you and will be here LONG after-THANK GOD!! (PS-I hope you like it hot!)
Freedom is being taken way too seriously. He is correct in his argument, and all of you are choosing to be ignorant. Did any of you read the article. Its about the AFA trying to force retailers to put christmas in their ads, just because they are having sales during the holiday season. No one should be forced to observe christmas, which is exactly what he, Freedom, is saying. Hes not saying that christmas bothers him, or that he doesnt like time off, or that he wants to live in the middle east. The one thing I dont agree on is saying religion should be banned in public, thats freedom of choice. I can put whatever religious decorations in my stores I want, Its called freedom of religion for a reason.
Other than that one thing I agree with Freedom4Everyone. Hes not trying to take christmas away from you, but I agree that it shouldnt be forced on anyone, like what the AFA is trying to do with retailers.
In that case Freedom4Everyone, I will appreciate you sending me all your monetary assets..You know, the ones which say, In God we trust.
In case you never noticed, the reason the word "God" is on the money is to appease the great money god that most Americans actually worship.
When folks wish me a happy holiday, I am not offended. nor am I offended when someone wishes me a Happy Hanukkah or Happy Diwali. However, if businesses are using the Christmas holiday as a vehicle to make money, they should at least acknowledge the correct holiday - not to "shove it down our throats" but to properly acknowledge the holiday that is being exploited. If they are truly acknowledging the "holiday season" then the word "Holiday" would be more appropriate.
I wonder, are immigrants offended by "President's Day" sales, even though they do not share our reverence for past American presidents? Whether they are or not, I bet they take advantage of the sale prices just the same. Should we change "President's Day" to "Former Leader Day" because some folks grew up in other countries? At this time of year, one specific holiday is used as "bait" to get folks into the stores. It is simply disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
#7 - Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:32 AM ESTPresident's Day really is all about the sales, isn't it??? What is wrong with us?
Considering the fact that President's Day is actually a combination of Washington's birthday and Lincoln's birthday (both of which used to be celebrated separately in this country), the holiday has already been changed once.
Isn't it interesting how easily people get offended by something and decide that instead of doing the intelligent and polite thing, namely ignoring the offence, they decide to make it a legal and political issue?
IdahoDragon...The older I get, the more I realize how petty, insignificant minutiae can be blown out of all proportion when common sense is lacking. Maybe an entire generation were force fed rusty nails instead of pablum? That would cause mass constipation and the accompany grumpiness of today's youth.
Jon,
Your comment about "if they are truely honoring the holiday season, then Holiday Greetings appropriate", I am paraphrasing....is so right on.
Bottom line, maybe those retailers are just doing exactly that, honoring the "holidays" for all, which means all the other religions which have thier significant religious holiday around the same time as our Christmas.
We should not punish them if they choose this course of marketing, these are all private companies they can do what they like to increase thier profits during this huge shopping season. Use Merry Christmas or not, but to make them out to be bad guys, simply because they are not choosing "your" religion, ie..Christianity , to sell a lot of product is just plain silly and certainly not an issue worthy of what the season should really mean.
So , i guess what I am saying is that "Merry Christmas" is working for them this year, great. But if for some reason they chose to revert back to "Happy Holidays " next year, dont hold it against them, maybe next year they will choose another religion to USE to create big sales and profits for them. Lets just hope they use those profits to benefit some of the communities in which they operate...I think that might be a better way of deciding what store I will give my money to, not whether they use my religion to sell more stuff!!!
Good post Jon!
Show me a retailer with Jesus in their ads and I will say they do it for Christians.
For retailers it's Santa Santa Santa. Period! The jolly old elf gives the presents to all the children. Or at least the good Christians like to lie to their kids and tell them that. BTW, if you are Catholic and celebrate Christmas by telling your kids there is a Santa Claus wouldn't that be tantamount to worshiping a false god? Isn't that breaking one of the commandments?
Merry Christmas, to those of you that don't care. Have a nice day, to the rest.
Jon and Nancy, I don't think the retailers resorted to "Happy Holidays" out of their own preference. I think they were bowing to the pressure from the minority who was offended by "Christmas" and the majority said "what gives, bring it back".
Okay JStevens, so its "bowing to the minority" to say Happy Holidays, but not "bowing to the majority" (which was threatening boycotts through the AFA) when you switch back to Merry Christmas. That is kinda silly dont ya think, either way, it is such a silly issue. Yet, here I am commenting on it....go figure. Personally, I do like the term "Happy Holidays", because it is so inclusive, but I am not offended by "Merry Christmas" either. And really, when the stores are saying "Merry Christmas" they are celebrating the buying and SANTA, not the religous aspect, the birth of the son of God, so they are really just using the holiday and i guess that should be even more offensive to any one who is really concerned about the way in which their religion is portrayed. does that make sense?
It's the principle of offended minorities using our laws to force their intolerance of historical America down our throats. The pendulum swung too far and it is coming back.
This is Christmas in a country founded predominantly by Christians. The rewriting of American history does not change the truth of the makeup of our original founders who were escaping religious persecution.
If I take offense at a store that refuses to acknowledge Christmas, it is indeed my choice to purchase from those who do. Nobody is forcing any establishment to use the term "Christmas", they are being revealed and advertised to allow the purchasing public to vote who gets their money.
This is Christmas in a country founded predominantly by Christians.
Are you implying that this is a "christian nation" then?
The rewriting of American history does not change the truth of the makeup of our original founders who were escaping religious persecution.
If you are referring to the Mayflower Pilgrims, they were just as intolerant of other peoples religions. They fled England so they could practice their religion exclusively.
gordy327They fled England so they could practice their religion exclusively.
Should they have fled to practice someone else's religion...
Should they have fled to practice someone else's religion...
That's not what I was saying. I said they were just as intolerant of other religions as Englan was of theirs.
I am curious to find out if any of the "protesters" have a CHRISTMAS tree in their house. If so what do you call it, what is your reason for having it?
Please, get over yourself!!!!!!!!!
No, we don't celebrate xmas in our house, never have, never will. I resent having the holiday at all. I would much rather be working and making money, not have a forced vacation for a religion I dont even practice. Same goes for sundays and all the laws preventing people from working and conducting business on it.
There should be no such thing as a national holiday for any religion. People should be able to take time off for their religion, same for all religions. But it should be business as usual for the rest of us.
Further, I wonder how many of the protester refuse the holiday on December 25th and go to work on that day!
I wish I could go to work on that day, I get no choice but to take a holiday that I dont want.
What you are doing is taking your own personal opinions and forcing them down the throats of the Christians. Why do you consider yourself special?
By the way Freedom I would be careful of the term Xmas. That would is very Catholic in origin.
I am curious to find out if any of the "protesters" have a CHRISTMAS tree in their house. If so what do you call it, what is your reason for having it?
THAT's funny!
would you kindly educate us regarding the religious history and relevance of the CHRISTMAS tree?
I looked in the bible, the closest thing I could find was the Asherah Pole. God wasn't too keen on those, though.
Note: the original "protesters" of the christmas tree were christians, because the christmas tree isn't christian at all.-
Freedom4EveryoneI wish I could go to work on that day, I get no choice but to take a holiday that I dont want.
Go work in a soup kitchen for the day, there's always something or someone that needs some work done.
Jesus never saw a Christmas tree in his life. What do YOU have one in your house for?
Pluto, in those services and businesses that are open every day of the year, non-Christians regularly volunteer to work on those holidays.
Where do you think the tradition of bringing a tree into the house came from? It certainly has nothing to do with Christianity, otherwise God might be a little offended for breaking his 2nd Commandment! No idols!
It is a pagan ritual for winter solstice. Jesus likes you to sacrifice livestock, not evergreens. Although, Jesus did destroy that fig tree for not providing any fruit...
But pagans are fair, you can keep your tree up if you like.
I have a Christmas Tree in my house. Cut the biatch down myself.
Freedom4Everyone... You sound like a really exciting person. Your family must love you very much if you want to spend 7 days a week working and never have any holidays when your kids and the rest of your family have holidays. No one in the entire world works on Sunday (as a regular business day) and you'd like to work. Have fun with that. You sound like an angry person. If you celebrated Christmas, maybe you'd lighten up.
Freedom, you sound like a happy ray of sunshine. Just be happy that others are with their families. The reason why the stores and stuff are shut down on that day is that hardly anyone would come in and the business would suffer. Imagine paying people to work when nothing is happening for them to do. It would be a big problem for profits.
I'm not the most religous person in the world, but I like having a day to be with those that I love the most. Isn't that whats important?
digitusmediusJesus never saw a Christmas tree in his life. What do YOU have one in your house for?
Same reason I have my wife their, it smells good.
Think people. Before the dawn of enlightenment, cave dwellers lived in darkness in winter climates from late afternoon until the dawn of the following day. You bet your life they brought a tree indoors for additional oxygen as well as for the ability to be reminded of the renewability of the earth. Then, as civilizations advanced, the habit of adding candles to a tree to give light where none existed became a winter solstice tradition.
Yeesh...the whining of the minority few with nothing more to live for than money. As if they are never going to die and when they do they'll take it with them. Grow up.
I can't help but reply to Holy_Cow, being a Wisconsinite dairy girl myself. You made my day saying you have a Christmas tree for the same reason you have a wife...they smell good. Thanks for being so funny!!!!
What do YOU have one in your house for?
Same reason I have my wife their, it smells good.
Wally World is advertising a scratch-n-sniff tree this year.
You've got it ALL, Holy_Cow! Happy Holidays!
Spike-2046177You've got it ALL, Holy_Cow! Happy Holidays!
I love "Christmas Vacation", and Wally World, Merry Christmas!
I call my yearly tree, Used to be in my neighbors back yard. Happy Holidays.
SteveJ --- Why is the word Christmas so difficult that you have to sugar coat it by calling the tree a "yearly tree?" Why fall victim to the PC correct, watered down, meaningless, retail-driven "Happy Holidays?"
I wish you a Merry Christmas, Happy Channukah, or Happy-whatever holiday you celebrate, SteveJ. See? It's not that difficult to respect each other!
NJ actually I do call it a Christmas tree, perhaps you missed the bit of levity I was trying to interject. Perhaps if I said, I call it my yearly fire hazard" it woulod have come through more readily.
Most people have a Christmas tree at Christmas because it is a tradition, not for religious symbolism or whatever. Most people call Christmas by its name for the same reason. Yes, there are religious aspects to the holiday of course, but not everyone views Christmas with the same level of religious observance.
Freedom4everyone,
You complain about having to work on a holiday that you don't support, but that is easily rectified. Simply quit the job you work at and go work for a company that works 7 days a week. There are actually a lot of companies that have staff working everyday of the week, even holidays. There, problem solved.
You know Freedom, your problem is your focus is all on you. It's all about you. I guess it never occurred to you that maybe the company you work for gives its employees the day off because the vast majority of them want it off so they can be with their families. It also probably didn't occur to you that the company is not interested in spending the amount of money it would cost to keep the building lit and heated for the very few individuals like yourself who would rather work on that day.
Get real.
Instead of hating and resenting Christmas so much, maybe you should just deal with it, instead of wanting to deny it to everyone else. After all, denying it to everyone else is the only way you're ever going to be "free" from it.
Idaho, well said.
Freedom4, your dislike of Christmas won't make it go away, unfortunately. A large segment of our society celebrates it, not to mention large swathes of people in other countries. Even if companies were required to stay open on December 25, good luck having most of your employees show up or customers anywhere.
I am truly sorry if all the commercialism offends you. It offends me too and I LOVE Christmas.
I love Christmas and have had trees all my life. I especially love the pagan nature of the holiday now which evokes more Winter Solstice meaning than anything religious, but I even still carry some of my early Catholic baggage about it being a time for peace and joy and all that @!$%# even though those people who claim to be "christian" these days think all that is commie rot. They're why I'm not a christian any more.
I wonder how HC's wife would feel if she knew she was competing with the Christmas tree for housing.
Wow all you are being to hard on freedom4everyone. He is pointing out a double standard in our society. Where we say freedom of religion, yet we have a christmas holiday where schools and jobs give us time off, yet no other religion is givin such recognition. In a perfect society, people should be able to celebrate thier religious beliefs and holiday pay should be available to be used when appropirate for the holidays I want to celebrate. If a company chooses not to be open on christmas, thats fine, but dont force others to use their vacation days just to be able to recognize their own beliefs.
Personally, I do celebrate christmas with my family, but we are not religious what so ever. We simple view it as time with family and a chance to spoil each other with gifts and good food.
digitusmediusI wonder how HC's wife would feel if she knew she was competing with the Christmas tree for housing.
As long as she smells as good as she does, she has no reason to worry.
There is no one religion promoting Christmas. It's a holy day for all christians. If your not a christian, that's ok. Promote your own holy days any way you wish. Although, how many holy days are good for the economy. I know, ramadan. The sales of prayer rugs increases.
#9 - Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:33 AM ESTYes indeed. Prayer rugs, flour and bomb making equipment.
hahhaha John...Lets see the advertisers work on that one for next year. Prayer rugs and Bomb making equipment on sale the week before.
Janine:
Prayer rugs and Bomb making equipment on sale the week before.
Sales could really explode.
Ho, Ho, Ho! Tis the season to be jolly. Deck the halls & kick 'em in the balls. Have A Safe Merry Christmas & A Happy New Year!
Scotty Claus
#10 - Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:33 AM ESTYou can't say Happy New Year anymore either. I think each person should have their own New Year... Oh wait they do... It's called a Birthday. But we can't have those anymore either because we may offend the Mormons or the 7th Day Adventists.
I remember having two 7th Day adventists in my elementary school class and they had to leave the classroom when we celebrated someone's birthday (or anything for that matter)... And also during the national anthem. Yep... they were big time nerds.
Mormon's don't have a problem with birthdays i don't know where you got that from
d-bo-2352959 Please try to get your religions straight. 7th Day Adventists not only celebrate birthdays but Christmas as well. It is the Jehovah Witnesses that do not celebrate either. Try to spread truth not misinformation.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot to also add that Adventists also recite the Pledge of Allegiance in secular settings, and sing the national anthem as well.
The following is from the 7th Day Adventist Site on Christmas:
Seventh-day Adventists do not celebrate Christmas or other religious festivals throughout the calendar year as holy feasts established by God. The only period in time Adventists celebrate as holy is the weekly Sabbath (from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset).
Adventists do find, however, that these holidays provide good occasions to focus on the Christian aspects, that is, the biblical message of the death and resurrection of Jesus (at Easter), and of His incarnation and coming to earth as a human being (at Christmas). It also gives valuable opportunities to speak with other people about the gospel. Also, these events are often occasions for building family fellowship and reaching out to the poor and needy.
But we do not find these festivals to be obligatory, that is, demanded by God. Nowhere in the Bible is it prescribed that we have to celebrate Christmas or Easter.
Rudi-361417, That's correct, this is saying that they do not believe that these are Holy Days prescribed by God to be observed in reverence or adherence to God's law. However, Christmas is observed by most Adventists in the secular "Santa Claus"and tree etc. and religious type carols are sung during church services near Christmas time. No they do not believe it truly Christ's birthday date etc. but they do enjoy the season.
We are a nation founded on Christianity and we celebrate Christmas here. End of story...
#11 - Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:35 AM ESTCharlie's right. Please reference Treaty of Tripoli. Not a Christian nation. Not now, not ever. Yes, there's a Christian majority in our country but the majority does not get to decide the rights of the minorities.
In fact, the Constitution has not a single article or clause that could be in any way construed to reflect a "Christian" view point. It's as secular as any document can get, except for the wording of the date of the signing, which is meaningless in any legal sense.
"Charlie's right. Please reference Treaty of Tripoli. Not a Christian nation. Not now, not ever. Yes, there's a Christian majority in our country but the majority does not get to decide the rights of the minorities."
Uhhhhh.... Yes they do. Happens all the time. Have you ever heard of an election? It's the same principle. Majority rules mofo. Don't like it then move to somewhere where they have no culture, no government, no laws etc. etc. etc.
Uhhhh....no not at all. Our country is not set to a majority rules. You can win an election with a MAJORITY OF VOTES, but lose the electoral college, so guess what, electoral college trumps. This protection was put in there by our founding fathers to protect AGAINST majority rules, and to use your oh so polite epitaph, MOFO!!!
What I'm saying is that it is impossible to separate the founding of this nation from the Christian belief and mindset. Look at our currency, "In God we trust."
Bill B, that was put on our currency in the civil war, under god was put in during the 1950's i believe as part of the red scare.
If you would like to go back to our founders in reference then we would probably be a Deist nation.
What I'm saying is that it is impossible to separate the founding of this nation from the Christian belief and mindset.
Sure it's possible. Just look at the Constitution!
Look at our currency, "In God we trust."
The original motto was: "E. Pluribus Unum." God wasn't added until the 1864 due to pressure from Fundamentalist Christians.
We are a nation founded on Christianity
Show me one piece of original and valid documentataion which supports that claim! You might be surprised to find there is NONE!
"In God We Trust" was not present at the founding of our country. It was an abomination foisted on our coinage first during the Civil War and later on our notes in the red scare days of the height of the cold war in 1957. It is no more a part of our founding heritage than Macy's or K-Mart.
We never has a war on Christmas. the entire idea is nothing more than a scare tactic made up by the clowns on Fox noise and similar media outlets. If you faith is so shallow that some store clerk saying "Happy Holidays" is a threat to you, you don't have much faith in the first place.
#12 - Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:36 AM ESTCharlie-1915998 If you faith is so shallow that some store clerk saying "Happy Holidays" is a threat to you, you don't have much faith in the first place.
There is absolutely no threat to me if someone chooses not to say "Merry Christmas", and it shouldn't be a threat to anyone else if I choose to shop somewhere that does say "Merry Christmas".
wow why are you throwing in Fox news in your discussion regarding Merry Christmas. or is it that anything with you you bring in Fox news. you need help dear person. This discuss is regarding stores and the like should use merry christmas or say happy holidays. I preder the stores to use Merry Christmas and stop vovering up what the Holiday is really all ab out . it is the celabrations of Jesus Christ's birthday. And yes it has goten very material and stores and economy is doing it best to make tons of money during this time of year. I do not happen to diagree. If a person has money to bless their family or others that is wonderful and if they have little money then then have what they can afford. I have been in both sistations and having money to bless is fun and not having money was hard but I made the best of it. I just looked to my God and thanked him for my health and his forgiveness and my children and all God has done for me.
Why am I throwing in Fox -- because Bill O'Lielly started this idea of a war on Christmas a few years ago -- and told lie after lie after lie about cities outlawing Christmas.
Having a clerk say "Merry Christmas" is no threat to me either. That same clerk can say "Happy Holidays or simply "Thank you" -- it's no big deal with any of them. But if they do say "Happy Holidays" that is not a war on Christmas or some kine of an attack on Christianity.
If someone is "threatened" by someone saying "Merry Christmas" I'd say they have serious mental issues.
I am an agnostic and don't see the problem with people wishing me a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Ead, Festivus,etc. If they want to wish me a merry anything, I say it's a good thing.
Offense goes both ways. Acting like Christians beliefs are shameful, and acting like their holidays are to be hidden and "not talked about" is extremely offensive. Time for it to stop.
#13 - Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:41 AM ESTPerhaps you would like a muslim religion shoved up your butt a couple times a year, whether you want it or not? Maybe you would undersatnd the.. huh.
It is not that people dont want it talked about, they dont want any one religion hoisted above the rest. Or forced on everyone. Give me one reason why I should be forced to take a holiday for xmas? when I dont believe it or practice it.
This is just more of the same, Christians pushing their beliefs and morals on everyone else, and it needs to stop.
Freedom4EveryonePerhaps you would like a muslim religion shoved up your butt a couple times a year,
Stick your head back up your ass and there wouldn't be any room for someone to shove Christmas up their.
Thanksgiving has a religious basis as well. Have you by any chance puchased a Turkey?
FreedomForEveryone(exept Christians)
Take a holiday for Xmas to;
1. spend time with your family!
The use of the term Happy Holidays or Season's Greetings over Merry Christmas does not demean Christmas. Supposed Christians that define their Religious Holiday based on retail marketing does.
Freedom, freedom, freedom, this country is free to celebrate Christmas because of the majority of Christians living here. If I am in another country I will respect their way of life.
Freedom, you asked the Christmas not be shoved down your throat, who is shoving it?
The main point is that the holiday is not celebrated as a religious holiday in the commercial sense. Santa wins that throw down every year.
This is a really large world that we live in so if you don't like the way things are celebrated in this country find yourself another one or quit bitching.
A country does things a certain way for a couple hundred years and then they are asked to change their traditions.
Freedom, one more thing name me one corporation that uses the statement Merry Christmas because of the religious meaning involved? Remember those Norelco commercials for the electric shaver, it wasn't Jesus riding through the snow on the shave head. The don't wear a crown of thorn when they have the red bucket in front of the stores, usually it is a red pointy hat.
Are you making Santa Claus a religious symbol? Do you truly believe we are celebrating a religious holiday? Why do you feel the need to take away generations of tradition from American families? I think we sacrifice enough with our soldiers dying for causes other than our own. With all the charitable contributions to countries in need of help. By letting law breakers take refuge in our country even though they broke laws to be in this horrible place.
If the season really bothers you that much you need to see a shrink because you make it sound like some sort of emotional rape.
If I were in Israel, I would expect Hanukkah to be displayed and used. If I were in a Muslim country, I'd expect whatever they celebrate. But, like it or not, America's religious population is very decidedly Christian by an overwhelming majority. If you don't like to see the word Christmas, turn your head or stay home. This is a country of Majority rule. So, let the majority have their day without this stupid protest year after year.
Freedom4Everyone,
You can work at a hospital, join the military, volunteer at a shelter or work in retail since they are all open everyday of the week and on holidays.
If you hate taking Christmas off so badly, bring it up to your management as they are the only ones who can change their holiday policy. Just be prepared for blank stares. You are in the vast minority. But perhaps they can find something for you to do since spending a day with your family is a repulsive thought for you.
jspe, a nation predominantly christian does not make us a christian nation. We were never intended to be religious or christian. The founding fathers were very clear on that.. read the reaty of tripoli if you disagree or some of their views on religion.
“This would be the best of all worlds if there were no religions in it” John Adams
“lighthouses are more useful than churches” Ben Franklin
“Christianity is the most perverse system ever shone on man” Thomas Jefferson
Freedom, I think your sippy cup is out of juice. Go ask your mommy to fill it back up so you will quit throwing your tantrums : )
"Christmas" is just a date. Before someone decided it was a good time to celebrate Christ's birth, it was a pagan winter solstice event. No one actually gives a damn about it's religious significance anymore; it's all about buying things for people who probably don't want or need them and them buying you stuff in return because it's expected. Or we just exchange money cards like family ATMs. And you're complaining about whether to say Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays? Who gives a *$@!? Live and let live. Let shoppers and retailers say what they like.
#14 - Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:43 AM ESTAG999...Find me a single person in a single household who doesn't cling to some family tradition consciously or unconsciously. That's why Christmas is a popular season. Yes, it has a basis in religion. But, it also has a basis in tradition. No religion, bar none does not carry on the traditions as they were taught.
So on Thanksgiving Day, the pilgrims celebrated with the first real Americans and gave thanks for their prosperity. The problem with people today is they have too damn much and can no longer recognize traditions of thankfulness to anyone but themselves. A society turned in on itself is a society headed for extinction.
Basis in religion? Not so. X-mas was orginally a pagan holliday celebrating the season until a bunch of power hungry Catholics started ramming this Jesus fest down everybody's throats. It's time that we take our holiday back as it was suppose to be celebrated.
Weiser,
Oh spare us the melodrama. Take YOUR holiday back? From who? I didn't know you could actually steal something as immaterial as a date. I didn't know that only one group could own a date either.
You do realize of course that the "pagans" are still perfectly free to celebrate the 25th in their own way right? There is no law anywhere saying that the 25th of December is ONLY for Christmas. You did know that right?
Kindly take your own religious intolerance and hatred elsewhere please.
Tell me Happy Holidays, I'll respond Merry Christmas. You prefer PC, I prefer not. Why can't we all act like adults and get along. And in the immortal words of Tiny Tim "May God bless us, every one"
#15 - Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:44 AM ESTJust fine, as I may wish you a Merry Festivus. And may Zeus bless YOU.
digitusmedius,
And my response would be "Thank you very much." It isn't what you say that should be important. It should be why you say it that is meaningful. If you say Merry Festivus and may Zeus bless you, so long as you mean what you say, that are wishing your god (or gods, goddesses, etc.) bless that person, why should anyone take offense?
It is the spirit in which the greeting is given that should be viewed. If how that greeting is given offends a person, then that person is the one with the problem.
Who needs gods in the first place? I think we are all adults now and we can certainly think for ourselves.
That is your belief Weiser and you have a right to it, but that doesn't mean you have a right to condemn others for their beliefs.
The world would be a much happier place if both the believers and non-believers could learn that simple truth.
And by the way Weiser,
You say what do we need gods for, and in an earlier comment you talk about taking back "your" holiday. So which is it?
Are you a believer or an non-believer? Or are you just a hypocrite and a Christian hater?
Christmas never had anything to do with Christ. It is a Northern European Holiday to celebrate the Winter Solstice. In fact many of the traditional holiday items such as gift giving, feasts and yule logs pre-date Christianity in Northern Europe. The Vatican adopted the holiday when converting Northern European Pagans.
Christmas as we know it now was created in the US in the late 1800's/early 1900's and now takes on more of a "Goodwill to all" feeling than a "Christ was born." feeling.
Why do people have such a problem with a holiday that is meant to inspire joy and goodwill towards others regardless of their religion? What, are you a bunch of meanies?
#16 - Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:49 AM ESTActually it's now primarily a commercial event in most of the "christian" world.
Maybe if enough of us post the true history of Christmas every year, we can finally end this silly debate.
1st Amendment, call it Holidays, Christmas or Darwin day. You're small minded if you boycott a retailer over a single word.
Look at all of their practices and spend based on their business practices across the board. Do they sell American? How do they treat their employees? What candidates do they support with their donations? Are they green? And any other issue that resonates with you. That makes us a great nation.
Last year I was working in a call center (no, not telemarketing, people called into us for info about a government class action suit they were apart of) and we had a caller that got very upset that we wouldn't say "Merry Christmas" to him. He complained to me that my co-worker refused to say Merry Christmas, I told him that it might have something to do with the fact that he was a Sunni Muslim and didn't celebrate Christmas. He then got upset with me b/c I also wouldn't say Merry Christmas, I told him because I wasn't Christian either and I don't celebrate Christmas. (We wished everyone Happy Holidays as a response to any celebratory greeting.) The guy wanted my supervisor's name and number; I gave it to him and wished him good luck and told him I believed my supervisor was Buddhist but didn't know for sure b/c we never really discussed religion much in the work place since we work for the Federal government. The guy was fuming, said they should have "Americans" working for the government, I pointed out to the guy that we all were born in the US to parents who were US citizens, my co-worker and supervisor had both served in the military and that we were all exercising our right to freedom of (or from) religion. The guy never did call the supervisor.
It's not rocket science people; if you celebrate it, go for it but don't get pushed out of shape b/c I don't want to say Merry Christmas to you. I mean geez, worry about something that matters like abused children, people starving or the homeless, not whether or not someone says two words.
Let me live my life,
I agree with you in regards to your example. A person should not be offended because you don't say "Merry Christmas". A person should also not be offended if someone does say "Merry Christmas".
Perhaps the underlying problem is people are too thin-skinned these days.
Let me live my life--
That sounds like a pretty selfish philosophy you have there...When I'm around my Indian friends during Diwali season, I don't say "Happy Holidays". I'm not Hindu, but I say "Happy Diwali" to them. Duh. It's a way of wishing them well and acknowledging their holiday. Sooooo...since you live in America and are dealing with customers that are over 90% Christmas celebrators, why the heck can't you give them the courtesy of a Merry Christmas greeting, whether you celebrate it or not??? (Apart from the fear that that our intolerant government might give you the axe, that is)
People are DEFINITELY too thin-skinned these days.
I can't believe people are actually arguing over someone wishing you a merry anything.
But I still hope everyone has a Merry Christmas, because wouldn't it be great if everyone in the whole world was happy for one day, regardless of the date?
Now you can say thank you, because I truly hope you are happy that day, regardless of what you believe. I hope you are happy on the religious holidays you do celebrate if you celebrate any.
Just go have a happy life. And let other people be happy too. Its not that difficult.
Freedom, if working makes you happy, volunteer on holidays. Days off make me pretty happy.
"Perhaps you would like a muslim religion shoved up your butt a couple times a year, whether you want it or not? Maybe you would undersatnd the.. huh."
Actually I used to work as an Arabic translator and knew a lot of Muslims. I wish them Happy Eid when they celebrate that holiday (which they just did).
I think their beliefs are wrong, and I'll tell them so if it comes up...but I believe in freedom of religion. Apparently you just want to silence those who disagree with you and not be reminded they exist. America's not a good spot for that.
What a question. It's obviously up to any particular retailer whether to use "Christmas," or not. That's what freedom of religious expression means.
#17 - Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:49 AM ESTdigitusmedius It's obviously up to any particular retailer whether to use "Christmas," or not.
Yes it is, so spend your dollars where appropriate.
Precisely. If you want to discriminate against a business because it doesn't cater to your religious expectations, that is your right in America. I'm really tired of hearing certain religious groups whine about being discriminated against when they are the ones wanting to do the discrimination.
digitusmedius If you want to discriminate against
Not discriminate against, but discriminate between...
One wins and one loses based on your personal religious preferences...call it whatever makes you feel better. It's your right to discriminate.
digitusmediusOne wins and one loses based on your personal religious preferences..
It's not a "religious" choice, I'm not religious, just a personal choice.
The season is supposed to be about hope, but Christianity with their Christmas is directly responsible for making the season about buy, buy, buy. There is no hope in it any more. Which will be attested to once again this year by the number of suicides, murders and other violent crimes which rise during this year.
I celebrate in the oldest ways; making my gifts of candles, foods, sweaters, scarves and hats, afghans, gifts of warmth, comfort from my own hands. As the pre-Christians did. They understood and knew how to promote hope.
So go ahead and say Merry Christmas in the stores, keep the greed and hopelessness to yourselves.
#18 - Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:52 AM ESTNightcloud--plenty of buy, buy, buy to be sure. But also plenty of hope. Unless you live with your head in the sand, you know that Christians give charitably probably more than any other group, especially at Christmas.
And I'm a bit confused--it's nice that you make stuff with your own hands, but it's still stuff. I'm not sure how making it with your own hands gives more hope than giving a warm blanket purchased at a store. It both cases, it's the heart of love that gives hope.
I don't care.
I celebrate Christmas, how retailers choose to market their goods really doesn't change that.
#19 - Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:53 AM ESTThe real reason "Christmas" exists as it does now is because retailers need a final sales boost before the end of the year and will do whatever it takes to appease the masses so they'll spend money!
If Christians really wanted to celebrate the true "reason for the season", they wouldn't be out Christmas shopping and celebrating a bastardized mix of Santa and the birth of Jesus in the first place. I don't remember Santa Claus and brightly wrapped toys, clothing and crappy gift sets from Hickory Farms in the nativity story, do you?
Call it what you want - Christmas, Sparkle Season, Holidays, Season's Greetings... it's the same thing, commericialization and a way for stores to get your money.
#20 - Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:54 AM ESTYou're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead. |
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What is the big deal? The hypocrites that say "Keep Christ in Christmas" are the first ones in line to buy, buy, buy!