The worst thing about it is, they refuse to acknowledge in any meaningful way that their policies are contributing to continued weakness. And they just continue to press forward, attempting to throw good money after bad and then complaining when the Republicans stop them from doing so - ie, the debt-funded "small business loan program". Have they NOT learned yet that the government meddling with lending is the absolute Ground Zero of this entire financial crisis? Apparently not.

And have they not learned yet that the "stimulus" money doled out on a state level (aka, buyouts for their campaign allies and public employee unions) did absolutely NOTHING but kick the can down the road on state-level budget issues? Apparently not, since they're trying repeatedly to push through another $10-30 billion in state bail-outs.

At some point, every state with a budget problem is going to have to "grow a spine" - those being the words of Gov. Chris Christie of NJ.

In typical BS-loaded media fashion, the ten minute interview he did on Sunday on ABC was culled down to the last 15 seconds, which he spent discrediting "Jersey Shore". The REST of the interview was what mattered. Watch it.

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/video/interview-gov-chris-christie-11246138

I just knew that if I didn't hurry up and post, someone else would beat me to the punch and start a string of the ususal crap - this is all Obama's fault. Why don't you people get real for once. You cannot blame Obama for a problem whose roots go back 20 years. You have to look at how America has evolved in terms of jobs in this country.

In the 80's we started taking farms, putting thousands of folks out of their homes and taking farms that had been in their families for generations. In the 90's we started sending manufacturing out of the country, taking millions of jobs from Americans. The political leaders of the time said "get re-trained, go back to school and learn a new skill". In the early 2000's we started cutting away at white collar jobs, sending those overseas. So now factory workers who might have gone to ECPI and learned computer skills started losing those jobs now.

For two decades the political powers at the helm have hacked away at the American middle class in terms of jobs. Those in the top 1% of the financial world reaped financial benefits because they cut their labor costs dramatically. They lined their pockets with the so called "savings". They had to look elsewhere to continue to line their pockets after they had decimated the American middle class. Along comes sub prime lending - there's nothing else left to take from us - they've crushed us.

This is NOT an Obama issue - get real! No one person can fix a problem in 2 years that took two decades to create. Enough already - I'm sick to death of the Obama bashing, regardless of whether or not I voted for him.

Well said J. Hicks! Actually that would be 3 decades, ever since Ronny Raygunz started giving tax cut welfare to the rich and greedy while jacking up defense spending for no good reason and running up massive budget deficits. We need to restore the top two tax brackets Raygunz cut to ensure the richest and greediest pay their fair share of taxes again.

agreed - ongoing problem - not about republicans or democrats - all about greed - how many jets, summer houses, cars you need...send jobs overseas, so you can make more $$$.

Obama didn't create the country's mess, but his policies are doing NOTHING to make it better. If you want to do a trillion dollar stimulus, put a trillion dollars back in the hands of the taxpayers and watch them spend it. They will buy cars, appliances, send their kids to college, and quickly get that money out in circulation. Cut taxes on businesses and send the message that the USA is a great place to own a business... THey will expand and hire, creating more jobs. The problem we have is that the democrats want to control how the money is spent, because then they can use it to repay those they owe polical favors to (unions, et al) and also use it to buy votes by giving out "candy" to key constituents. For the democrats it's ALWAYS about control and about getting some political advantage from everything they do!

A bad economy is always going to hurt current officers, and certain a U.S. President. I thought we would start climbing out of it earlier. The stimulus package did some good things but it didn't go far enough. We need to pour all kinds of money into the economy. Thisis what worked during the New Deal, yes, including World War Two, and Ronald Reagan, who spent money on the military as if we were at war. Trying to fix blame on any one individual is ridiculous. George W. Bush didn't help, of course, Obama's stimulus was too modest, not wide sweeping enough. We need to see roadwork, bridges built, new buildings all over the place. As long as we have a capitalist system we will have economic downturns, that's how the system works.

I agree with J. Hicks post 100%.

We are going to have to poke our heads up out of the Republican vs Democrat distraction if we want to make progress. The root issue is exactly what is described about the "20 year" problem and whittling down of the middle class.

We can't even go back to farming at this point because giant corporations own all the farm land, and anything left is being strip mined by other giant corporations. If you do find a small piece of land and try to farm it, be prepared for the lawsuits you can't defend ($$$$) related to patent infrigment when your field cross pollinates with the adjoining field containing patented seeds. The other thing is you won't be able to compete with the $0.50/hr (at best) labor setup these companies have with foreign "gray area" (OK just flat out illegal) labor.

The best I have figured to do is learn how to not spend a penny on anything that is not absolutely necessary and plan to bid on contracts on a competitive basis with Indian labor. Hopefully some IT shops will start springing up in Central/South America because I actually wouldn't mind moving there if that's where the work was. There's no chance I'm moving to India.

You cannot spend your way to prosperity.

Where do you think that money is coming from? TAXES ... which do not cover what we spend now ... equals DEBT.

The debt we keep accumulating is going to far exceed what the IRS can collect ... taxes will go up, investment and personal spending will go down. It's that simple.

The government should be allowing more capital for low interest business loans and flooding private businesses with more available funds at a very low interest rate ... NOT funding government projects that add to the debt.

The problem actually started during FDR's reign, and accelerated during LBJ's Great Society programs. Since that time, the Congresses and Presidents have depended on "bringing home the bacon" and ever-increasing social programs to buy votes. The people who believed themselves to be benefitting from all that spending either forgot or never realized that government has no money it doesn't (a) tax from those who earn it, (b) borrow from somewhere, including foreign governments or (c) print out of thin air, eventually resulting in inflation.

Presidents do not create (although they propose) nor authorize budgets; Congresses do. And I well recall that for the great majority of the years in question, Congress was run by the Democrat party. I also recall during the '80's (the years of Reagan you like to criticize) the Democrats complaining that less of an increase in any given program than they wanted was a "Draconian Cut."

This President has managed, however, to accomplish something rather astounding to me: He's made Congress pretty much irrelevant. And this Democrat-controlled Congress has further astounded me: They've allowed him to do so by acting as a simple rubber stamp to anything the President wants to do. The Republicans have simply asked a simple question: Why not take some of this money (for whatever program) from the already-authorized spending bills/sources? They're not "the party of no;" They're the party of "How much more debt do you plan to incur?"

For those who would counter with the wars: The first obligation of the Federal Government under the Constitution of the United States is "To provide for the common defense." Now, many believe "Bush lied" (forgetting Bill Clinton was also fully convinced that Saddam Husseign "Has and will eventually use WMD"), but they must also remember we were attacked, not only on 9/11/2001, but several times previously, including the first WTC bombing.

The problems we face now, economically, are a combination of wild spending in the past, and current policies that do not help but rather aggravate the problem. And, I believe, these current policies are the result of an ideology held by this President and the leftist Democrats in Congress that the "social democracy" theories (read "socialism") taught in the universities since the 1930's are correct -- that Central Government control of the economy somehow insures "justice." Further, I believe that these people are arrogant enough to believe they can make work what has not worked anywhere else in the world, at any time in history. Even Canada and Great Britain are re-thinking their national health-care systems. Spain has backed away from its "green energy" programs. Germany is tightening the reins on government social programs. Greece is sucking wind because of theirs. So are Ireland and Italy.

Why is it so difficult for this country to see that we're on the wrong path? The wrong definition of the problem (that it's "capitalism") will lead to the wrong solution ("socialism," "more regulation," or what ever you want to call it).

I would LOVE to continue this debate, but I've got to get to work. And don't even get me started on what I do for a living these days - not by choice, but rather, out of necessity. I'll be back to follow up and see who agrees with me and who does not agree with me.

But remember this much, no one man runs this country. That would be a dictatorship. So to point at Obama and say it's all his fault makes one look ignorant.

Eric, the top 2 tax brackets contain the richest and greediest? I have news for you, if you are a small business owner you most likely fall into that category, people like self employed painters, plumbers , electricians, small store owners you know the type of rich disgusting people (as you refer to them) who employ other people. You are as clueless as the community organizer in the white house.

Recovery? What recovery?

People follow the Democrats line so easily because they do not have to put forth the effort and think for themselves. If tax cuts are so bad, then why didn't the Democrats just vote to end them. Effective Jan. 2009 the Democrats could have voted on anything and there would not have been enough Republican votes to stop them. So, after campaigning about the evils of tax cuts, what do the democrats do when they have the chance? They do nothing. Nada. Zip. They chose to let cuts expire in 2 years. Well, the 2 year mark is rolling around and some on the left in office are talking about extending the evil tax cuts. They now say they may extend them for the majority , but not for the top 2 to 3% of Americans. Why didn't they end them when they had the chance?

When FDR became president on March 4th, 1933, the unemployment rate exceeded 25 percent. Within four years the rate was reduced to about 14 percent. In the meantime roads, highways, bridges, sidewalks, football stadiums and schools were built with the WPA. We became strong enough to fight World War Two. When Lyndon Johnson became president on November 22nd, 1963, just over 28 percent of the American population lived in poverty. When he left office, after the enactment of the Great Society programs, Americans living in poverty was reduced to 11 percent. It has generally been between 11 and 13 percent since then. Since then, millions have gone to college who otherwise would have lived in poverty. We sent a man to the moon, we have created and innovative new industries. Families have two or more cars, when it use to be just one. There is a television in every room, now a computer in most homes. We have massive problems now, but they were greatly relieved during the administrations of FDR and LBJ.

It is amazing that almost all the taxes in this country are paid by the top 20% in income and if they object they are labeld as greedy. Should they pay more. Yes, they do. But the bottom 50% pay nothing. Everyone should pay something. If you are going to get services,then you should pay something.

Bottom line: STIMULUS DOESN'T WORK.

If Obama had any grasp of history he'd know that.

If he had any balls he'd let this thing crash so people who have money, prudence and vision could buy these assets up and give us all better deals at sustainable prices. Then we could recover.

Instead he's doing all he can to keep the suckers in their overpriced houses and the bankers balance sheets artificially inflated.

All to the detriment of the rest of us who didn't buy into this sham.

He's punishing thrift and vision and rewarding ineptitude and recklessness.

IT IS HIS FAULT!

WASHINGTON — The nation’s economic recovery lost momentum in the second quarter as growth slowed to a 2.4 percent pace, its most sluggish showing in nearly a year and too weak to drive down unemployment.

Weaker spending by consumers, less growth coming from companies restocking shrunken stockpiles and a bigger drag from the nation's trade deficits were the main factors behind the second quarter's slowdown

Finally, a statement with some truth to it! Thank you!

The economy has been exactly what I thought it would be and have been posting about for months. There was a surge to restock shelves, now we are slowing down again. The surge didn't last as long as the analysts thought it would as companies are reducing on hand inventory levels to mirror the current economy. The companies KNOW nothing has changed yet. They are being conservative so that they can STAY IN BUSINESS!

J Hicks - While most of the historical portion of you post is correct, (though lacking the background why this happened) the end result is not. It is NOW Obama's fault as he has done nothing to correct the previous errors and in fact has made things FAR WORSE due to repeating past mistakes, spending EVEN MORE than previous Administrations and pushing policies that will bankrupt America by destroying private business. Business has no wish to start anything new right now until they see what is left after they start paying all the new Obama taxes. The increased cost has to come from somewhere, like Research and Development, Capital Improvements, and Jobs. Paying the new taxes to the govt. will not help business in any of these areas.

Fiscal Responsibility is what we need. The outrageous spending needs to stop!

godaddy72: you should look into the history of money lending, particularly as it relates to the US. We're in big, big trouble right now. It goes far beyond the "Obama administration".

I'm predicting within the next 10 years we will start seeing news about an IMF/BIS bailout of the US financial system. This will be no accident. There are groups in the international banking community who have been planning it and are drooling and waiting their moment. The Federal Reserve system was doomed to fail and it is because of the way money is created with compounding interest attached to it. Eventually we will be at a 100% tax rate and still will not be able to pay just the interest.

Big trouble. There's still time to save it, but as long as we are "Democrats vs Republicans" it will be a losing battle.

@J. Hick - are you in a coma? Basically you're correct in your generalizations however, are you better, or worse off, since Hussein took office. Here's how I see it:

1. Health Care Reform was jammed down our throats through bribes and outright lies. Turns out that the European form of socialized medicine worked so well that they've trashed it because it was too expensive. Of course, because of our new found "transparency" that was so highly touted nobody bothered to read the legislation. So here we are with egg on our face. And as my friend Annie so correctly pointed out it's keeping employers very uncomfortable about hiring people. Great.

2. Our foreign affairs are in the sh*tcan due to the liberal tendencies of appeasement. That word, appeasement, translates to "weakness" in Arabic. We have a huge leak of Secret military information indicating that we're too stupid to know that Afghanistan and Pakistan are leaking information to our enemies in an effort to de-stabilize an already unstable region. Bush's intelligence team is as well to blame for that as Hussein. However, it's under Hussein's watch therefore it's Hussein's responsibility to deal with it. What's being done about it? Besides lip service.

3. We have the Gulf of Mexico turned into 30W and what's the Fed(up) done? Remember when Bush was taken to task about his slow response to Katrina? What was it, two to five days for FEMA to get deployed. I wonder if Hussein even knew it happened until we were a couple of weeks into it. WTF? And it's STILL LEAKING OIL!!!! Did we just forget about it because Hussein went on the "View?" Even the Democrats were yelling about the lack of response/acknowledgement of the spill. For the love of Christ.

4. Why are we debating the civil rights of illegal immigrants? Are we going to go through another debate on the meaning of "is" on this? It's pretty black and white to me. Illegal means not legal. Not legal means breaking the law. Deport their ass's back to wherever they came from. Why is Hussein having the Justice Department challenge Arizona when Rhode Island is twice as tough on illeagals than the de-fanged Arizona statutes. Exactly how stupid is he?

5. Why is the President of the United States going on a daytime talk show? What? First time that's happened. I didn't bother to watch as the last thing I wanted to see was Joy Behar giving our Buffoon-in-Chief a rim job while he's "explaining" we just don't understand but given time we'll all see that he's right. Is he that insecure about his popularity that he has to go on day time TV? What's next, The Guiding Light?

6. Cap and Trade. Not even an issue any more as the new guidelines for the EPA will do everything that Cap and Trade is supposed to do, so if it doesn't get passed it's a Pyrich victory. That's really comforting. Oh yeah, Hussein now wants to increase taxes on the oil industry and pass the taxes on to "alternative" energy industries that in total employes around 150,000 people and hires no one because at this point there is no "alternative" eneregy. Crap.

So, you're telling me that none of our current malady's are not an Obama issue? Please dude.

By the way, how can we slow down a recovery that doesn't exist? That's like saying we've got a flat tire when we don't have tires on the car!

Hope and Change? Something to ponder:

• Democrat President, Democrat House, Democrat Senate
• Not 1 single Republican vote needed for anything when Obama took office
• Passed massive pork-laden Omnibus passed in the middle-of-the-night - Didn't read the bill.
• Passed wasteful stimulus. Promised creation of millions of jobs and promised unemployment would never rise above 8%. - Didn't read the bill.
• Stimulus was to "stimulate" economy with TEMPORARY projects. A lot of money for a temporary fix that didn't f%%%ing work.
• 62% of the citizens don't want the Health Care Bill - passed anyway after buying votes from their own party.
• Job losses for the African American population is higher for any other group.
• Massive bank bailouts - didn't help the average person.
• Alienation of Israel - US's #1 ally.
• Failed Cap and Trade Bill - will probably push this via EPA.
• Failed Cash for Clunkers.
• Guantanamo Bay still open for business. Wasn't that supposed to be closed?
• Tax Fraud for 1 out of every 5 Obama Cabinet Members
• Van Jones Scandal
• Obama said "Police acted Stupidly"
• Still in 2 wars... Deadliest month in Afghanistan for US Soldiers.
• Obama throws everyone under the bus.
• Bush and Cheney are to blame for everything. Period. Even if it happens 2 years from now - it's going to be because of George W. Bush.
• More to come

I agree with most of the posters here. However, the only thing missing from the story was "unexpected." Sorry, I know, I know, it's just that I miss that spin element.

Placing fault and blame gets us no where fast. Pointing fingers and shouting gets us arthritis and a sore throat. The only things that we can do at this point is to hold onto what we have, spend very frugally, and vote in November.

The Republicans and Democrats are so busy getting sore throats and arthritis, that they have quit looking out for the people they were elected to represent. I know that the Tea Party has taken a hard rap, but in its defense, it is a third option that this country needs. And if its not for you, personally, maybe we need a fourth party, too. It's time to take back our political system and start making it work for this country, instead of the country working for it.

And post #1.17 was right on: What recovery?

I have a simple solution that will work 100%

STOP SPENDING MORE MONEY THAN YOU BRING IN

I have been reading and listening the the Tea Party members and the right, trying to get what they are so angry about. And folks, I would feel you had more credibility if your rants had started much earlier. But what I see is that as soon as President Obama was elected the chorus of doom started, from the ridiculous purchasing of guns and ammunition (I guess he didn't get around to taking all the guns yet) to a steady loud chorus of hate and anger. Where was the Tea Party during the second Bush administration? I have found nothing in the Tea Party to convince me it is just Republicans who like to dress up and channel the founding fathers, as if they were all united in a single philosophy about our new nation.

The last time I remember this kind of reaction was when Clinton was fist elected. Before he entered office the attacks and criticism began.

I think the tea party movement is a start in the right direction. It will take time for a well organized new group to form. We are used to everything happening right away, but some things take time.

Right now it looks like a group of groups that are not all on the same page, with elements of extremist groups trying to piggy back onto the movement with their own agendas. (Racism, anarchism, etc). It will take some time to pan out, but hopefully it will all merge into something useful like the Populist movement of the late 1800's.

J Hicks

For the most part I agree with you, but did you feel that way when Bush was being blamed for the dot.bomb recession, or did you blame it on Bush? Did you blame everything that was wrong in the world on Bush while he was President. IF you did you are obviously a hypocrite, if not, then you are the critical thinker you appear to be.

BUT, Obama does share some blame for the situation now in the broad sense that his has been introducing one thing after another with no end in sight and that creates uncertainty in the market and the board room. When there is uncertainty, there is stagnation. He needs to create an atmosphere of stability for things to really start returning to normal. Why he will not do this is a huge mystery.

We have a stimulus package that 18 months later is only half spent, and not on what they said. We have the scariest deficit numbers since LBJ that need to stop. There is always some blame to be placed on the current administration AND CONGRESS. Its when people start blaming everything on the president that it just gets silly. Congress makes the laws and holds the purse strings, not much can happen without them approving.

If Bush was truly responsible for everything he has been blamed for, that would mean he somehow managed to do more than any president in history and in 8 years affect internal policies and laws of nations around the world. He would have had to have complete control over all bills in all comittees even when the democrats took over, and the ability to squash unwanted bills early on. Somehow I don't think his power and impact was that much, nowhere close.

It should be remembered that Democrats controlled Congress, and the legislative agenda and the government's purse-strings, for the last 2 years of Bush's Presidency, and the meltdown occurred at the END of those 2 years.

When challenged, I have yet to find an anti-Bush blogger that could point to a single Bush sponsored bill that led, or even contributed to the financial meltdown.

The vast majority of the Bush-bashers are merely trying to divert attention from Obama's failure to improve our economy or jobs picture.

In fact, when looked at from the perspective of all 8 years, using the four broadest average measures of economic health (Unemployment Rate, Inflation Rate, Interest Rates and Economic Growth Rate), Bush's overall economic performance was the best in the last 40 years (yes-even better than Clinton).

LOL

This is too funny. All the republican, "the economy is going downhill".

We just went from 3 consecutive quarters of economic growth to 4 quarters of economic growth. As such, you can't say that "Obama is ruining everything", quite the opposite.

Of course the growth isn't as big as we all want it. I agree with Wag we needed an even bigger stimulus. Economist warned that the stimulus wasn't big enough. Republicans made sure of that. Please realize that in the world economy, everyone is using a stimulus plan with austerity measures and its working.

So, read my lips, "4 consecutive quarters of economic growth".

The Bush Recession/Depression of 2007 just will not quit.

At least, the GOBP, Party of No's Corporate America is doing well.

By the way, why do these indicators seem to change weekly (good to bad and bad to good).

Either way, Big Bankers and Wall Street continue to do well.

They have all probably taken out credit default swaps betting for the failure of America.

I don't think you are fair stating "inept." Who do you propose should be the president and handle this myriad and complex problems? Romney? Palin? Give us a name of someone other than this president who would do the job better. We have the best and the brightest in office, but the truth is the country has been on a downhill slide economically for quite a while. The tech sector was a mirage....we all got a little wealthier during the tech boom, but after the bust that was it. It's over. The only people who benefited after the tech bust was the financiers and mortgage companies.
Give us your nominee for President and tell us if he can handle the oil spill disaster (and negotiate a $20Mil slush fund), the local governments crashing financially, the corporations moving overseas and abandoning the American soil, and two wars.

I wouldn't say "inept"....I would say "over their heads" in crises.

Enough of the "the problem has been building for 20 years" line. When a president is sworn in, he assumes responsibility for all problems, no matter how long they've been around. If they are old or existing problems, then it becomes his responsibility to fix them - and in eighteen months, Obama has not fixed anything, nor is he likely to. First of all, his philosophy is anti-capitalism, anti-business, and ours is a capitalistic, free enterprise based system. Second, he has no experience, and his knowledge is academic, not hands-on. His only demonstrated ability so far is speeching making; he is very good at that. Unfortuneately, it doesn't solve problems.

Sally in Chicago is another one that gets it.

Spider, and he's done well 4 consecutive quarters of economic growth.

Two more points, the debt of the "great bailout" from this administration went for the crooks who caused the crisis while growing government, is not a answer, but a problem on how to pay for more government in the future.

This country has mortgaged her future for immediate gratification.

All this administration did, was rob the future with the "bailout" to create economic "stimulus" and grow government now.

The dollars of the "bailout" were wasted = going to the same crooks who caused this economic mess while not creating jobs in the private sector. The banks are not lending, toxic debt still exsist in the housing industry, record foreclosures still in line to happen AND no jobs in the private sector.

Obama can not blame Bush for his administrations policies = failure. Next!

THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION was at war with America and KILLED the USA. Since Bush had 8 years to completely ruin our country, it will take more than 1.5 years to fix the disaster.

I am unemployed and the reason is 100% because (mostly Republicans) corporations are still FIRING Americans so they can hire people in COMMUNIST CHINA. My ex-company is going under because our biggest contracts have been lost to COMMUNIST CHINA companies.

The USA has lost the war with COMMUNIST CHINA, but I have a solution:

Immediately, change the tax laws to OUTLAW business deductions of ANY expense or salary that is paid to a foreign country. Why should American companies be able to deduct taxes for intentionally SHIPPING AMERICAN JOBS and DOLLARS TO OUR ENEMIES. Communist China is our enemy.

All of the Republicans are afraid that Obama is a socialist. Give me a break, LOL. ALL REPUBLICANS who support corporations sending jobs to China are COMMUNISTS.

REPUBLICANS ARE COMMUNISTS, PURE AND SIMPLE. Otherwise, they would condemn their big business friends from sending our jobs and money to COMMUNIST CHINA.

Really, 2.4% real GDP growth is good news. After 8 quarters of negative to almost negative growth, we have finally put together 4 straight quarters of positive growth. The "double dip" has been avoided in all likelihood and we've now seen our first full year of economic growth since the worst recession in modern times. Really, people. Congratulations. Things are really getting better. But, of course, there's always going to be a bunch of idiot ideologues trying to paint this in poor light and blame our president because of their political distrust. This, my friends, has nothing to do with economics.

Eric, Eric, Eric - 4 Quarters of non-sufficient economic growth is more correct.

Non-sufficient enough to ease the recession.

Everybody is angry that our government is not "fixing" the problems with this economy.

Has it occurred to anyone that fixing it isn't what they have in mind?

Reset your minds around this possibility.

-Max

Sally in Chicago "Give us a name of someone other than this president who would do the job better."

Mickey Mouse - or even Daffy Duck.

I'm sure they couldn't have done worse.

americanwarrior...SPOT ON. Thank you.

Eric:

Apparently, you're impressed by statistics. Ok try this one: national unemployment is still at 10%!

Blah, blah, blah, blah. I posted this on an earlier thread, it seems most of you need to be more informed before you spout your "party line" rhetoric over and over just to hear yourself talking.

SO, THE KEYNESIAN IGNORANCE IS FINALLY BEING EXPOSED EVEN BY ITS MOST FERVENT SUPPORTERS!!!

How many of us have been railing this song and dance since the beginning of this massive economic experiment that didn't work under FDR either? This is an absolute abomination of malinvestment and economic malfeasance. Bernanke's own admission recently that our economic outlook remains "unusually uncertain" is an ominous indication that the Fed has NO IDEA what happened, is happening and will happen. His stubborn insistance that a Keynesian response would somehow correct this massive collapse is being exposed as improbable at best, and impossible at worst. Contrary to popular belief China, Japan and Taiwan are NOT our largest debt holders, they are the largest FOREIGN debt holders. The Fed holds over $5.5 TRILLION DOLLARS of our National Debt. Inflation is not only feasible but imminent. Yes the Fed can continue its 0-.25% interest rates and buy us some time but we are in no position to recover due to the loss of our domestic export industry.

Since the economic and monetary systems were not corrected after the Depression we have had the anticipated "booms and busts". The Feds persistant papering over of these cycles with more new money and credit created greater debt and misdirections that continued and at some point needs to be corrected. This massive financial bubble was created due to many factors, most of which since we created the dollar as the reserve currency of the world this fiat money had no controls. Since we went off the gold standard nearly 40 years ago the Fed has in essence become the counterfeiter of the world and no one questioned or demanded any oversight. Our uncontrolled spending and massive foreign debt accumulation has not only put us on the brink of collapse it has made it inevitable.

As Ron Paul said, "We have lived, as a nation, far beyond our means and the message is, for the foreseeable future, that we will be forced to live beneath our means as this debt is paid." Massive debt creation and monetary inflation will invariably give the "economists" some encouragement and allow the government to manipulate the numbers as they have been to promote the "summer of recovery" while all indicators are totally against this notion. Unless we create long term growth with exportable industry this smoke screen will just create price inflation and higher interest rates. The stock markets irrational fluctuations up and down of triple digit moves is NOT a stable market. This is the result of high unemployment causeing business to downsize until they either collapse or stabilize and even become profitable, for now. Along with artificially lowered interest rates the banks are creating enormous wealth for themselves as they use the low overnight rates to their advantage yet refuse to loan to the engines of our economy, small business.

Government is very powerful. When it combines its power with the monetary authorities ability to inflate currency at will, BIG government thrives. Social programs, entitlements and senseless wars can be maintained with inflation as long as trust in the currency is maintained. The trust in the almighty dollar is losing ground quickly. The only solutions offered worldwide and encouraged by the Obama administration is to print money faster, keep interest rates at practically zero and allow spiralling deficits to continue. Remember, politicians are incapable of frugality, common sense and sound monetary policies when they are using YOUR TAX DOLLARS. Even with the austerity measure implemented in the EU the continuing erosion of their monetary policies will not hedge this collapse much longer.

Unless goverment wakes up and dramatically changes its ways the next massive bubble being created is the dollar/bond crisis. The governments refusal to allow the correction necessary will just create a long and agonizing crisis. The corrections necessary are decreased spending, lower deficits, lower taxes and stopping more money creation. Don't hold your breath with this administration. All of this is a result of failed foreign and domestic economic policies, ignorance about Central Banking, our unsustainable welfare state and a willingness to sacrifice our privacies and civil liberties to achieve safety and security from a corrupt and growing out of control government.

The steps necessary to corect this need to be implemented immediately. The resistance to the needed corrections, which will be difficult and painful but absolutely necessary if we ever want to recreate the wealth and prosperity of our country, can no longer be allowed. Balance the budget by reducing spending. Recreate our foreign policy to one of non-intervention unless provoked and then only with full military command and force. Audit and create oversight of the Fed and eventually abolish it. Eliminate wealth transfer by the government. Abolish crony-capitalism, subsidies, no more bailouts, no tax priveleges for the upper and lower classes of our society. The middle class has been handling the burden long enough it's time for everyone to carry their own weight. Create a Flat or Fair tax system and eliminate the progressive system that has been abused long enough. The corruption and criminal activity in our government must be stopped. Congress must be purged of the current incompetence and contamination that fills its halls. Congress, not the Executive or Judicial Branch, must once again assume the dominant position of the three branches as is dictated by the Constitution.

Now is the time, as Americans see the corruption exploding in our government, to change from a nanny state looking for our next few bread crumbs that the government throws at us to return to free market principles, Constitutionally limited govenment and fiscal responsibility.

If not, as the article so accurately states,,,

“The U.S. is closer to a Japan-style outcome today than at any time in recent history,”

This would be shameful if allowed.

(This was posted on article,,,,http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38475785/ earlier today)

MtMike: Actually the Bush administration orchestrated the bailouts with the thumbs up from the Federal Reserve and partially (temporarily) nationalized the banks. They didn't know what to do, but knew there was systematic failure.

The cause of the systematic failure is not any one particular administrations "fault." This is not a Democrat vs. Republican issue. We're going to have to actually stop and actually think this time, but it is not too late. The Federal Reserve Act of 1914 would be a good place to start investigating. Work your way back a little from there to a time a little before 1776, then work you way forward to now. Take a pause to study carefully about how and when we started doing business with China. The WTO is an interesting topic as well.

This is a reasonable PBS article:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/china/trade.html

I've posted this 3 or 4 times already. FACTS, in 8 years GWB had a total deficit of 3,011 trillion. BO did that in 3, and more. GWB raised the national debt by 4 trillion in 8 years. BO will do that in less than 4. In 2007, the unemployment rate was 4.8%. It's now close to 10. Someone said that BO deported more people than GWB did. I still can't get those stats. Not only is it worse now. BO hasn't even turned the corner. Figures don't lie. It is what it is. Not only is it not better, they're talking about a double dipper. There are those who will say if he didn't spend the money we'd have a second depression. Well, we just might anyway?

All I'm getting from this story is that business is up and the majority of Americans are down. Why are these economists so consistantly wrong? Where has all the supposed recovery money gone? From this article I'm getting the idea that the economists think the recovery is gaining momentum but reality tells me something very different. Republican, democrate, whatever. Neither party has done anything to address the problems other than making sure their political contributers are happy. Nothing has been done for job creation in spite of the fact that there's a lot of work that needs to be done. What we've gotten so far and will be getting in the future is the shaft. November can't get here soon enough.

Obama said yesterday on the "View" the economy is finally getting back on it's feet, and once again inferred they had inherited a "worse" economy when entering office.

When is this guy going to tell the truth and take responsibility. It will be the job of the next new President in 2012 who will have to deal with a major crisis re: the economy, because Barack Obama only sees "Strobe Lights".

I see reality; many of my family and friends are suffering economically to the point of families breaking up. That is a Truth, President Obama. No jobs. Why should we as a Nation have to put up with his procrastination attacking hard core issues?

How long is this going to be ignored. Go back to Harvard and get a Masters or a Degree in Finance. Tim Geithner is doing one lousy job, also. It could be that they only know how to do "dirty deals" that don't require a financial mind, i.e. tax evasion for Geithner, Obama never holding a "real" job; employment that is..

Can't they get a team of experts together in Finance. Certainly we have many Experts here in the US. A Narcissist thinks they have no problems.

When BO took office, Bill Clinton said it----jobs--jobs---jobs.

This administration is still insisting we’re in some sort of recovery when what we really have with respect to the economy is stagnation. When all this is considered rationally what we see is an economy that has changed little these past 18 or so months with no prospect of improvement. Accordingly, all we have to show for it is the accumulation of massive new debt which all but insures there will be no real recovery and unemployment of around 10% will become the new norm.

It is impossible to spend ones way out of a recession except in the addled minds of socialist academics.

Obama is either; clueless and incompetent or this is intentional. Take your pick.

This article is a LIE. Our glorious leader Obama and members of his Administration tell us that the stimulus is working, he is creating jobs and although slow, the economy is recovering.

This must be a conspiracy by the Evil Bush and Republicans to make Obama look like he doesn't have a clue how to fix the economy and is actually making it worse. I mean how could tighter regulations on banks and making it more difficult to make loans to business effect job growth? How could the uncertainty of bigger energy costs effect consumer spending? How could the looming forced health care on people and small business if they grow beyond $250K payroll and 125 employees cause business not to want to hire more people?

Obama is doing everything he can to kill capitolism and encourage socialism, so how can the economy not be recovering?????

Last time I checked, the "job" of the President isn't filled by a conscript. Obama wanted this job, he told us he had the "vision" to correct all of the problems of the previous administrations (plural).

He supposedly knew what he was getting into when he took the office. If he didn't, if there were any surprises, then he didn't do his homework before spending hundreds of millions of dollars to get elected.

Once he was sworn in, this became HIS problem, not Bush, Clinton or anyone else... It is Obama's problem to fix and he isn't doing a very good job of it if you listen to credible economists. However the picture is very rosy if you listen to him.

If the Bush policies were so bad, why is he following most of them?

I Hope I have some Change left over when, despite his intervention, the American People finally pull us out of this quagmire...

Eric, the top 2 tax brackets contain the richest and greediest? I have news for you, if you are a small business owner you most likely fall into that category, people like self employed painters, plumbers , electricians, small store owners

complete and total nonsense. Your average plumber, self-employed painter, electrician or small store owner DOES NOT make $250k+ per year in income and reside in the top 2% of wage earners. That's so laughably absurd that I shouldn't even have to provide any details to debunk it, but here goes....

the average electrician makes $52k/year --> http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresult_national_sc16000009.html

the average painter makes $38k/year --> http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresult_national_sc16000186.html

you're making @!$%# up!

What part of small business did you not understand? If an electrician, plumber etc... owns a local company that employs 10 they are most likely over the threshold. I did not say the average PERSON in these categories I said SMALL BUSINESS.

Check the listings I'm sure even you you can find SMALL BUSINESSES.

One of the links contains 65m SMALL BUSINESSES.

Boston Electricians | Electricians in Boston, MA- YELLOWPAGES.COM

Small Business Listings

·www.hoovers.com

View 65 Million Business Listings. Contacts & Addresses. Free Trial.

And by the way drowningrover the people you referenced based on the salaries you posted will see their taxes also go up if the tax cuts are allowed to expire.

there is one thing i find quite funny about all these liberals out here, they do nothing more then complain about the rich and well off, but i am willing to bet that every single progressive liberal in here would do the exact same thing as all these millionaire and billionaire exec's are doing if they had the oppurtunity to run a major corperation, they would sve as much as possible, they would not want there wealth redistributed, i don't hear al gore saying, hey, i'm a super multi millionaire, take all the money you want and give it away, progressives are all to good at saying do as i say, not as i do, like when it comes to paying taxes, wow, the progressive democrats set a great example for paying taxes, don't they, a fine example for the public to follow. well, enough from me, i know this post sounds like i am rambling, but i hope it makes my point that progressives are just hypocrits, that's all they reqlly are.

You can twist statistics however you like, most upper income earners are either small/medium sized businesses.

Most "rich" are not income earners, so the top tax bracket doesn't affect them at all - clearly most of the idiots on the vine have no idea of the difference between earners and the truly wealthy.

What part of small business did you not understand? If an electrician, plumber etc... owns a local company that employs 10 they are most likely over the threshold. I did not say the average PERSON in these categories I said SMALL BUSINESS.

Sorry for the small misunderstanding of your original post, but the point remains that it does not matter at all how many people the business employs, it only matters how much INCOME the person takes home at the end of the day.

If a person runs a company that employs 5 people and takes home $250k+, they'll be hit with a tax increase. If there are 5,000 employees, the tax threshold is still $250k+.

While it's true that many people who take home 250k+ are small/medium business owners, I don't think a large portion of small business owners take home $250k+ money (only 2% of the country does). Most "mom and pop" businesses I frequent seem pretty meager to me...

And by the way drowningrover the people you referenced based on the salaries you posted will see their taxes also go up if the tax cuts are allowed to expire.

not if they extend the taxcuts for those making less than $200/250k as they have discussed at length about doing.

That's why you always hear that letting the cuts expire will save $650ish Billion over 10 years. If they let the cuts expire for all income levels we'd actually get back almost $3T over the next 10 years but the lower/middle classes would be hit with a tax hike. The $650ish Billion number is only what we collect from the top 2%...

EXCUSE ME, but if anyone is complaining about health costs and insurance increasing it would happen without this administrations help. If anyone is complaining about whether it's democrats or republicans holding this economy back, I suggest you believe it is BOTH parties. Corporations are hoarding 1.8 billion, do you suppose that has something to do with this economy and jobs? Small business is pretty much losing money in todays economy, DO NOT blame them. Your media spins tales DO NOT listen to them. This economy is still shrinking and we are still losing jobs. BLAME the likes of investment bankers, they are holding this economy hostage. Or bankers who hold everyone hostage with interest and NO LOANS to anyone.

Trickle Down Economics DOES NOT WORK!!!!!!!

When Bush Sr. broke his promise and raised taxes on the rich, it brought the economy out of that slump that Reagan left him to deal with. Clinton actually reaped the benefits of his decision to raise them and rode that momentum on to 2 terms, but make no mistakes about it, when the government gets the tax revenue that the ultra-rich people hide in all of those Cayman and Swiss accounts, the economy does better.

Are you guys Chinese spys?

People seem to live in a fantasy world, how are there going to be any job creation in this economy, people whine about all the jobs went over seas, yea we all know that, people whine about the unemployment extensions, well maybe you would not have a job without it did you consider that, the problem is people have grown accustomed to blaming everyone else, is it the fault of all these unemployed people that lost their jobs, homes and everything else they had because people were so greedy that they took risk they should not have, don't think your better than someone that is now unemployed because that could well be you in the very near future, playing the blame game is a little to old already all this blaming of the political parties is childish and is non-productive what has happened is done and unless we all stop this kids games it will get a lot worst and by this time next year 50% of you will not have a job or home and probably be living on the street so stop being part of the problem .....

DrowningGrover, I have to disagree with your assertion about how many small businesses this will effect. I work for a small company ( under 100 employees ) and most of our vendors who happen to be self owned small businesses have already said they are treading water and will most likely have to layoff workers if their taxes go up. Think about it, a company that has 5 employees and has a 300k threshold will see an increase of 15,000, that is a big hit for most small companies. Then tack on mandatory health care and you may lose some of those businesses. I really do not think this administration understands the role and impact that small business has on the economy.

J Hicks,

Agreed with almost 90% of your original post, but would like to express whom kicked the pebble out from under the rock that really started the decline of the "middle" class. First of all, let me remind everyone that the middle class grew from roughly 33% of the population at the end of WWII to over 80% in 1981. Second, Jimmy Carter is the one that kicked that pebble out with is "right to work" laws. Jimmy's stated sole intent was to destroy the unions of the industrial north by allowing the corporations to move to "lower" cost areas of the south. By doing this, it set in motion the real intent by the financial and corporate leaders of being able to stop inflation yet preserve and even enhance corporate profits AND opening the door to being able to look off shore for even cheaper labor (but first they would have to get tax or tariff breaks on imported products). Then Jimmy Carters regime signed the "Surface Transportation Act" (if people can remember, Jimmy Carter's 1976 campaign promise was to break up the Teamsters Union, and since they represented people in all parts of the country and the companies that employed Teamsters were already in the "Right to Work" states, the right to work laws did not effect them as written) which deregulated the freight companies by eliminating ICC required transportation lane rights, similar to what the airlines still have. By doing this, overnight the ability to utilize these "shipping rights" became worthless and allowed anyone to move commerce anywhere at any price, irrelevant as to the cost of the infrastructure (freight terminals, break bulks, etc) that they needed to complete the transactions with. Again this now caused the employees of these companies to go from solidly middle class to upper lower class (not even counting for inflation the average city peddle driver for an LTL union carrier was around $10 per hour in 1981, today the average is $12 per hour or the equivalent of less than $3 per hour in 1981). Unfortunately, we as a nation have paid dearly for this decision as along with deregulation being implemented, safety has been discarded too.

So, now we have turned labor into a reverse auction by the right to work laws and an industry that can't or shouldn't be (you know, that National Security thing, but don't worry you race to the bottom Wall Streeter's somebody will let the Mexican trucks and drivers take over hauling freight and maybe bombs across our country freely for your greater profit) paying employee's poverty wages. And they wanted more! Here came NAFTA, CAFTA, or whatever other excuse to pressure the "working" class out of the middle class. Then we give tax breaks to the entities (whether individuals, Wall Street fund managers, or corporations) to encourage even more off-shoring by not taxing the heck out of ANY PROFIT GAINED BY MOVING PRODUCTION OFF SHORE TO UTILIZE LOW COST LABOR and still be allowed to sell it in OUR market.

This has been along time coming and starting with Jimmy Carter, but since then they all had a hand in it because the elite, rich, and Wall Street have steered this continually under the guise of "fair trade", "free enterprise, and "unfettered capitalism". When it was nothing of the sort, it was to CONTROL THE ECONOMY, make the rich richer, and take what little wealth the average people have accumulated over the last couple generations.

The recovery lost speed? It was going about the speed of smell in the first place.

And people who blame Bush seem to always forget about the Dems blocking his changes for the economy in Congress. Everyone seems to forget this.

Stan W. "I've posted this 3 or 4 times already. FACTS, in 8 years GWB had a total deficit of 3,011 trillion. BO did that in 3"

Can you quote a source?

I checked your numbers, and GW Bush's total Deficits for all 8 Fiscal Years he was in office was only $2.006 Trillion. Obama exceeded that in 18 months (1.5 years).

Here are Bush's Deficit figures;

2001 = $128 Billion Surplus

2002 = $158 Billion Deficit

2003 = $377 Billion Deficit

2004 = $413 Billion Deficit

2005 = $318 Billion Deficit

2006 = $248 Billion Deficit

2007 = $161 Billion Deficit

2008 = $459 Billion Deficit

2009 - Obama's fo\irst year = $1,413 Billion Deficit

You racist - what do you mean an embarrasment? For the first time the president appears on View and everybody is having a fit. Do you remember when other presidents appeared on talk show - but nobody complained about that but let a African American be on the view and its an embarassement. Kiss my ))*(!!

Faye, you moron, nobody can remember when a president appeared on a talk show because this is the first time any president stooped that low. Exactly how does Hussein's insecurity and poor judgement reflect racism? People of your ilk are really a waste of space. Go watch the re-runs, o.k.?

I agree with J. Hicks, I agree with J. Hicks, I agree with J. Hicks. Sounds familiar? That's because they are all J. Hicks...a trowling shill.

First, when the "idiot" George Bush took office, (or rather wrenched from the hands of power-greedy Democrats who would not let go), got in late, then immediately had to deal with the 9/11 disaster, aka the worst disaster since Pearl Harbor, he not only kept us going but actually increased GDP and exports, meaning that we had jobs and a country that had representative that cared about their citizens. Now fast forward to Obama...we could easily demonstrate the Dodd (D) and Frank(D) sub-prime mortgage fiasco as Democrat causal, (and it was), we could also show Goldman was in the pocket of Clinton-Gore, (and they were), or we could focus on Obama. Let's shall we? First, Government injection of funds into an economy isn't a workable solution. It isn't working now and never has in the past, (sorry FDR, you and you stupid wife Elinor were dupes and fools). Second, nationalizing industries removes incentive and increases corruption, (and it has...look at the union bosses, violence against non-union workers at GM, etc). Last, regardless of the Utopian elitist view of Obama, he IS NOT more intelligent that the per-capita intellect of the American public, yet he continues down the path of ignoring our pain, joblessness, and hopelessness in spite of his racist and monstrous book "Audacity of Hope", (now an oxymoron title). Obama is a fraud and those of you STILL holding on to his failed policies should not only be ashamed but be considered for charges of sedition in aiding and abetting a traitor against the good citizenry of the United States. My great hope is to see this man in shackles for what he has done my family and our country. He IS A MONSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jimmy Carter is the one that kicked that pebble out with is "right to work" laws.

RobWI #1.67 - I have to admit that frankly, I'm just too young to remember the Carter administration insofar as his politics are concerned. I was just a young kid (born in 1963) when he was elected president. I do remember that my parents didn't like his politics, but I've never studied his administration for myself. I honestly had no idea that his administration planted the seeds of destruction of the middle class. So I was off at least a decade when I point out that today's lousy state of affairs go back way beyond anything that Obama could control. I still stand by my opinion that one cannot point at Obama and blame him for the decimation of the American middle class.

And by the way, for those folks that like to play the race card from time to time, remember that Obama is 50% white. In fact, every African American in this country today has a certain percentage of Caucasian blood running through their veins. We are equal - no one should ever be judged by the color of their skin.

Mike-426080 - I don't know what you are talking about. I'm a "trowling shill"? What exactly is that anyway?

I agree with J. Hicks, I agree with J. Hicks, I agree with J. Hicks. Sounds familiar? That's because they are all J. Hicks...a trowling shill.

WRONG - in your dreams. I guess you have nothing better to do with your time than set up multiple user ID's so you can log in to newsvine and post multiple times as if you are more than one person. I've always said that when someone makes an outlandish accusation, it's because they themself have done it. Personally, I've got better things to do with my time. I am J. Hicks - period - I do not have any other aliases.

Get a life.

Mike-426080 - I just wasted a few minutes of my precious time to read some of your responses to other newsvine stories, and just as I suspected, you're a foul mouthed know it all. You're not at all selective about who you attack or who you trash.

Based on some of your comments, I'm guessing your in your late 20's or eary 30's - just a guess - but you clearly have a lot of growing up to do. There - I'm done with you now.

Ah, J. Hicks. You protest just a little too much I think. Truth hits the bone right? Just as an aside, my family immigrated to the US 270 years ago from Wales. Since that time we have been keeping very good records and have a family history of the flux of the nation, thus my perspective is something to which you should pay close attention. You, well, I suspect you are little more than a visitor compared to the history of my family. When my father recounted his WWII experience into Berlin, it reminded me of something the Nazi's did when they were fleeing the Russians coming in from the North-eastern front when they were being slaughtered by the Russians, (children and women floated by on the bloody Elbe by the thousands). They said, "we didn't do it" in German. You too, when our nation fails, will say the same thing in your puffed-lipped manner. You will say "We didn't do it", but alas, with Obama destroying us from the inside, you will lie then as you lie now. YOU DID DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Culturally speaking, you are a child in a much much larger world than you know. My suggestion? Keep it shut until you have the provenance of those much older and much wiser than yourself.

I'm done with you when I choose. You do not choose that time. J. Hicks, black woman from Chester, VA. Now you know the rest of the story, right? Or maybe you would like to continue this exchange in more detail?

Faye-1921742 "You racist - what do you mean an embarrasment? For the first time the president appears on View and everybody is having a fit."

I guess everyone that doesn't agree with Obama is a "racist"?

That taunt used to mean something, but it no longer does because it's lost its meaning from overuse.

The question I have is;

"When does Obama appear on Jerry Springer?" Surely, that's a segment of society that can relate well to Obama.

Mike, damn well said. I read your post three times and found it of extreme interest, not necessarily from this thread's topic, but from history in general. My hat's off to you, sir.

Mike-426080 & americanwarrior

I hope you two are very proud of yourself; I hope you both have plenty of that money your forefathers made on the backs of slaves (who, by the way, got nothing for their hard work building this country). It is not Obama who is destroying this country – you are. Keep supporting big business, keep supporting and spreading the misinformation of politicians in big businesses pockets; all you will end up with are watered down p[policies that do more harm than good (no matter which party you support). Yes, it’s not Obama that is destroying your children’s (if you have any) future – it’s you. When Obama leaves office, you guys will still be fighting and tearing down America – Congratulations! You people are accomplishing what military might could not; the destruction of the country you immigrants hijacked.

Billy, you know nothing about me, nor my ancestry. I don't recall that my grandfather, an Irish immigrant who came over during the potato famine owned any slaves as being Irish slavery was totally abhorrent to him, plus his job opportunities were, shall we say, limited. Much like your intellect. Have a good life, Billy, and good luck. I suspect you'll need it. Bye bye, Billy.

Mike - Whatever; I'll let Tyler deal with you.

nah nah nah nah nah. I'm gonna tell mommy. Good Lord Hicks, at least TRY and defend your positions instead of resorting to wailing like a little girl to Tyler. Gracious.

americanwarrior - Do you make a habit of inserting yourself into other people's issues, or are you just a simple follower who likes to bully people, but don't have the guts to do it on your own? I don't know what any of this has to do with you, unless you are really just Mike using this as an alter ego user i.d.

Hicks, you're right. I had no business getting involved in the "back and forth" and for that I apologize.

americanwarrior - I don't know whether to take you seriously or not, but if you are sincere, apology accepted.

No man, that was sincere. Thanks for the acceptance.

americanwarrior

Did I hit a nerve? Sorry – If the hat fits, wear it; otherwise stuff it! If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem; at least Obama is trying – can you honestly say the same for those are hoping, wishing, praying, and working to ensure he fails? When he fails so do we.

iWilliam-1802685,

"Obama is trying" ??? You must have a screw loose. Obama has made a concerted effort to dismantle every free enterprise system in the United States system of commerce and you say "At least he is trying"????

During the Gulf oil crisis he played golf, In Saudi Arabia he bowed like a little girl to the head of the nation that is sponsoring the Mosque project 2 blocks from the twin towers terrorist attack. His own military strategist in Afghanistan stated "he's a clown". He's saddled us with 2 trillion in debt in less than 2 years and we are in "worse" shape then when he started. Yes, he's trying alright, trying to destroy the United States of America. Obama is a monster and you refuse to believe it because you have a bias toward him...wonder what that might be???. You deny it because you have everything to lose by admitting the truth. By the way, the last time I checked, no progressive believes any form of objective "truth" other than what they make up as "their truth" so it's impossible to argue with a progressive democrat. They have neither ethic or morals.

The solution is to hamstring this guy from doing any more damage. May I suggest that YOU ARE THE PROBLEM by facilitating a dictator and a monster.

William-1802685,

It is not Obama who is destroying this country – you are.

You owe your freedom to not only my father, (WWII), but also his father (WWI), and his grandfather (Spanish American War), and to his grandfather who fought at Valley Forge (and died there). You are a typical ingrate who is the parasite of this land. You are a blight sir. My father was a working man, I am a working man, now unemployed DIRECTLY due to Barney Frank (D) Chris Dodd (D) and Barry Obama (D). You speak loudly and ignorantly sir and you are a child in this land of MINE. You democrats would make Thomas Jefferson, (who by the way knew my forefather), sick in his grave. You are shameful and unpatriotic in EVERY WAY. You do not deserve the freedom my family bought for you with our blood.

J. Hicks, tyler has enough to deal with without your complaining about an offense that did not and does not exist. My comments are accurate, truthful, and are rich in first hand history passed down by my family for nearly 300 years. It would do you well to answer the issues rather than running and hiding. This is typical behavior when one is caught in an attempted deception. My suggestion? Tell the truth, (even when it hurts and even when it proves you are dead-wrong). In this way you will mature and grow into a true citizen of this country rather than some disposable political partisan used by the Democrat, (liars), Party AND the Republican Party. May I suggest you remove yourself from ANY political party and vote your conscience rather than voting your bias or racial preference next time? You will do well to do so.

Mike-426080 - Again, whatever.

In the grand scale of things, how can you expect this Administration to fix everything that started to fall apart decades ago? I don' think the next 2 Administrations will be able to do much else either, I have lost faith in ALL politicians at this point. Fixing something like a global economy couldn't be done in the 13 years before WWII. Now we live in the digital age where everything is connect, it will take a lot more time before we are out of this mess.

Obama may not have created this mess, but he's not doing anything to fix it. In fact, he's making it much, much worse by expanding the government to unsustainable proportions and expecting the American public to fund it, for generations to come. He's not a stupid man, I think it's very intentional, so he can continue on with his "agenda" for the USA to become the USSO (United Socialist States of Obama). That's his "hope" to "change" America

You wrote so much that is unsubstantiated. I will comment on unemployment. I have not found the 21.7% you claim. You als said:

"Yes, the government figures state that unemployment is at 9.6% but that percentage reflects only those individuals still collecting unemployment benefits. The individuals who have already collected the maximum, are self-employed but without work, or have given-up looking for work after a year or more are not counted by the government. The “U6” figures are the most accurate unemployment figures and even the “U6” figures do not include all of the unemployed. Remember when we were told that unemployment would not exceed 8%?"

You are wrong. The unemployed are anyone who is not working and actively looking for work regardless of whether they are getting unemployment benefits. And the BLS data is quite transparent is report various approaches to the unemployed using a labor utilization framework.

In terms of cost of living, food is up, but overall the cost of living is down.

Ninjay, it would be nice if they fixed JUST ONE THING!

tomilvento, the overall cost of living is down? Gas, electricity state & local taxes, health insurance, fruits & vegetables are all up and I could go on. The point is most people have not seen an increase in their paychecks (if they are employed) that match the rising costs of commodities and services.

At least, we have stopped shedding 700,000 a month that was happening under Bozo Bush. Bush ruined America so badly, that it is taking far longer to fix. Please keep Republicans away from running our country, otherwise we will start losing 700,000 jobs a month again.

BUSH HAD THE LOWEST JOB CREATION OF ANY PRESIDENT SINCE THE GREAT DEPRESSION.

tomilvento,

What kind of drugs are you on man? Cost of living going down? I have a 5-year history of my expenses right here to prove you wrong. There is not one item I pay for on a monthly basis that is costing me less than it was 5 years ago.

Also ... MSLady is absolutely correct when she states the unemployment figures only count those on unemployment compensation. That is a well known fact.

The only person wrong in this thread is you.

-Max

MSLady64, you've hit it right on the button. When you look at the big picture over the past 20 years the pattern becomes very clear and very disturbing. What I'm wondering is who is going to be buying all those empty homes? Who will be able to afford to take care of their families, who is going to be able to afford those $30K cars? It's not going to be middle class Americans because there's very few left. Our country is pricing itself out of existence in the name of greed.

I agree with the original poster as well. Especially the part about tax breaks for companies that keep jobs here, or move them back. We should also be looking at how to categorize a company that is really an international company and only bases in the US because of the huge tax advantage as compared to other countries. Some of these companies may have started in the USA but now are multinational "mutts" for lack of a better term.

Obama was on the view and said we were doing better now this sounds like he taking out of both ends of his body. Republicans are saying NO because Obama is like your 10 year old who wants everything in the toy store you have at some time say NO NO NO to the 10 year old Obama.

tomilvento:

As long as my weekly pay is above my unemployment benefit...the state considers me 'employed'. I am a 'partial' unemployment beneficiary - not counted in the 9.6%.

MSLady64 statement regarding unemployment is correct.

Lynn W. and Willowbrook have it right. Obama's policies are not helping "fix" the economy, and we could be seeing even bigger trouble ahead in 2011 with all these projected tax hikes on top of higher taxes in state and local governments.

Less discretionary income cannot possibly help the economy.

One of the biggest drawbacks of the Obama administration continues to be reliance on academics (like Cristina Romer) who have practically no "real world" experience.

Tommilvento---I would like to know what planet you live on because it certainly is not earth.MSlady64 wrote many harsh but true facts, where do you get your information of unsubstantiated? You must work for the government if you believe the rhetoric you posted.

Allen: The crash seems to be leveling off. I guess you could call that "better", or said another way it doesn't appear to be getting "worse."

Do you really think anybody is going to come on TV and tell us the Federal Reserve is an aging failing system, our jobs are all gone to other parts of the world permanently, and we should all just get used to it and like it?

Show Us the Money, Show Us the Jobs, It's NOT there !!!...It's All going to China and the Middle Eastern Countries..America !!,, buying Outside Love, has Got YOU NO WHERE !!!......

ARe you telling me increased taxes and trash talking every company in the country will not create jobs and expand the economy- Wow I would never have thought that.

keith: they are only trash talking companies because they feel like they have to tippy-toe around the issue of failed international trade policies. We need a group (probably neither republican nor democrat) that still has a sense of national pride to tell it how it is and not care what the rest of the world thinks about it. That's how we used to operate and it did very well for us. Other world powers respected us for it. It hasn't been that way for a long time. I would say 20 years is a good number to throw out, but it started longer ago than that.

The government is giving out tax breaks to companies, thus every time they import all that junk from China, the companies do not have to pay import tax, thus making a unlevel playing field for the American workers. The government needs to place high import taxes in order to make it cost more to make offshore, then these companies have to come back in order to stay in business and thus creat millions of jobs in factories accross our nation, and these will be high paying. Well China is charging us import taxes, plus we only need to tax the imports from countries that have a substantisally lower income, for those are the ones that destroying our manufactyuring base.

A Country that does not produced and only consumes will die.

When you eliminate parts of the food chain, like our manufacturing employment, then by altering the fopod chain will make the whole ecosystem die (thus our economy)

Only thing that made some economic progress was government spending in which is artifical, thus we can and will not spend out way out of this. It is like the hospital treating a leg when it is the heart that needs the operation, if you do not treat the heart then you will die, it may look good to treat the leg, yet it was just looks and the end result speaks for itself.

Everyone sees the HUGE spending and deficits and know that enormous tax increases are on the way. Don't spend a nickel you don't have to and hoard any cash you might have.

The problem started in Korea in the early 50's. When your leadership gets a reputation for being a whore everyone wants some. And since then we have been putting out to the rest of the world. I don't think it will ever change. In fact there are many in this country who are enjoying the profession. A very "progressive" approach to life.

Also ... MSLady is absolutely correct when she states the unemployment figures only count those on unemployment compensation. That is a well known fact.

no she's not. The unemployment number is calculated from a phone survey of 60,000 households. If someone is unemployed and looking for a job but NOT collecting UI benefits they will still be counted in the official unemployment number provided they say "yes" when asked if they're still looking for a job.

What you state is a "well known fact" is not true at all.

The unemployment number has NOTHING to do with who is and is not collecting UI benefits. As far as unemployment is concerned, tomilvento is correct!

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm

Because unemployment insurance records relate only to persons who have applied for such benefits, and since it is impractical to actually count every unemployed person each month, the Government conducts a monthly sample survey called the Current Population Survey (CPS) to measure the extent of unemployment in the country. The CPS has been conducted in the United States every month since 1940, when it began as a Work Projects Administration project. It has been expanded and modified several times since then. For instance, beginning in 1994, the CPS estimates reflect the results of a major redesign of the survey. (For more information on the CPS redesign, see Chapter 1, "Labor Force Data Derived from the Current Population Survey," in the BLS Handbook of Methods.)

There are about 60,000 households in the sample for this survey. This translates into approximately 110,000 individuals, a large sample compared to public opinion surveys which usually cover fewer than 2,000 people. The CPS sample is selected so as to be representative of the entire population of the United States. In order to select the sample, all of the counties and county-equivalent cities in the country first are grouped into 2,025 geographic areas (sampling units). The Census Bureau then designs and selects a sample consisting of 824 of these geographic areas to represent each State and the District of Columbia. The sample is a State-based design and reflects urban and rural areas, different types of industrial and farming areas, and the major geographic divisions of each State. (For a detailed explanation of CPS sampling methodology, see Chapter 1, of the BLS Handbook of Methods.)

To "Progressive Thinker":

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. When WILL Shrub leave the WH and quit f&cking everything up, and let Obama (who won the election) actually become President?!!

THE PROBLEM is China and India manipulating their currency!!!, there will NEVER be a recovery before that gets done. :)

Why do you think Obama is aiming at doubling exports in the next few years???? he just realized this FACT, so get over socialism or capitalism, it is ALL about debt created by excesive IMPORTS, job exporting and wealth destruction.

Government should encourage " import subtitu" product industry taxbreak. Clothing,steel, plastic industries have been shifted to cheap labor,no enviornment countires. Government should provide incentive for companies to bring back those plant & jobs by providing Zero percantage financing, property tax breaks & for US citizen to buy Product made in USA, put public AD in TV & tax break like car for clanker with product made in USA. & Screw WTO,NAFTA.

Here are the facts, no matter what you think of the situation, things are getting better.

For those thinking its worse, please explain 4 consecutive quarters of economic growth.

Obama's policies are working, job loss as declined with some gains in some areas. This was a bigger recession than people figured. It took Reagan 3 years to bring the jobs back.

MSLady64

Time after time I hear Republicans regurgitating the arguments you are making; so much so that even people who state that they are not Republicans (whether they are lying or not) keep making it verbatim.

The real unemployment rate (that which includes all of the unemployed, not just those still collecting unemployment benefits) is at 21.7%. Yes, the government figures state that unemployment is at 9.6% but that percentage reflects only those individuals still collecting unemployment benefits. The individuals who have already collected the maximum, are self-employed but without work, or have given-up looking for work after a year or more are not counted by the government. The “U6” figures are the most accurate unemployment figures and even the “U6” figures do not include all of the unemployed. Remember when we were told that unemployment would not exceed 8%?

Are you saying that the Present Administration is responsible for the unemployment figures being as high as they are because they argued that the stimulus was needed to keep unemployment from reaching 8%? Remember, the average unemployment rate was 7.6% when Obama was elected.

If you answered yes to the above question then I probably should just go find something of merit to do with my time as further arguments will be futile. However, I am a sucker for punishment so here’s to your enlightenment:

Simply because one might underestimate the response needed to fix a problem do not make them responsible for the problem – if you ask me, Dr. Obama did a hell-of-a-job of stopping the bleeding. Can the patient get up and run? No! Are you crazy? The economy is still critically wounded (that was a death blow by Bush and the Republicans), but the bleeding has stop; even though the bandages are really bloody. Understand? We went from losing 700,000 jobs a months to adding a few thousands; that’s the right direction, although, at the wrong speed (if only Republicans wanted to really help rebuild this economy instead of marching in step with their leader Rush Limbaugh in trying to ensure that the President fail – what may have been)

I will continue to pick apart the rest of your post when I return – gotta go.

MSLady64

Time after time I hear Republicans regurgitating the arguments you are making; so much so that even people who state that they are not Republicans (whether they are lying or not) keep making it verbatim.

The real unemployment rate (that which includes all of the unemployed, not just those still collecting unemployment benefits) is at 21.7%. Yes, the government figures state that unemployment is at 9.6% but that percentage reflects only those individuals still collecting unemployment benefits. The individuals who have already collected the maximum, are self-employed but without work, or have given-up looking for work after a year or more are not counted by the government. The “U6” figures are the most accurate unemployment figures and even the “U6” figures do not include all of the unemployed. Remember when we were told that unemployment would not exceed 8%?

Are you saying that the Present Administration is responsible for the unemployment figures being as high as they are because they argued that the stimulus was needed to keep unemployment from reaching 8%? Remember, the average unemployment rate was 7.6% when Obama was elected.

If you answered yes to the above question then I probably should just go find something of merit to do with my time as further arguments will be futile. However, I am a sucker for punishment so here’s to your enlightenment:

Simply because one might underestimate the response needed to fix a problem do not make them responsible for the problem – if you ask me, Dr. Obama did a hell-of-a-job of stopping the bleeding. Can the patient get up and run? No! Are you crazy? The economy is still critically wounded (that was a death blow by Bush and the Republicans), but the bleeding has stop; even though the bandages are really bloody. Understand? We went from losing 700,000 jobs a months to adding a few thousands; that’s the right direction, although, at the wrong speed (if only Republicans wanted to really help rebuild this economy instead of marching in step with their leader Rush Limbaugh in trying to ensure that the President fail – what may have been)

I just got back and in my hurry I messed up the qoute - sorry, hope this clears things.

TERRI-USA

Thank God there is a sane person posting here - I thought I was going to have to re-educate the entire forum.

You are absolutely correct with your arguments. America’s problem started a long time ago with all those free trade policies that allow companies to grow into these gigantic multinationals that ship our trade secrets and jobs away and turn us into merely consumers. High tariffs should be placed on imported goods to match the cost of doing business in America. These CEOs that ship American jobs abroad to exploit the labor of the poor in other countries, then fill their pockets with the billions they rake in from the American consumer should be taxed into oblivion. It’s not like they are going to invest in Americans anyway – giving them tax cuts amount to the raping of the middle class and redistributing the middle class wealth to the top 1%.

Check this out: http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

s of 2007, the top 20% holds 85.1% of America’s wealth while the bottom 80% holds less than 15%. The Top 1% holds 34.6% while the next 19% (Small business and other Professionals) holds 50.5% - the middle class has no worth that’s why the economy is in the toilet. From Reagan’s to Bush tax cuts the top 1% increased their wealth to the point where there is no money in the middle class to fuel the economy – the slightest financial sneeze will topple our great capitalistic system. Business cannot make money, and Governments (federal and local) cannot get revenue if the middle class has no money for we are the ones who drives this economy.

Tax breaks for the rich do not help America because the rich do not invest in America – they invest in China, India, and other places where they can get slave labor at a $1 a day. All of you here who want no regulations and tax breaks for big business are the same ones who are jumping up and down about high deficits – so tell me where will we get the money to pay for these tax breaks? Will you guys work for $1 a day? Will you work in environmentally unsafe factories? Will you just die when you get sick and have no health insurance?

If Obama would get us out of the unwinnable war (like he promised) that will help reduce the deficit. But instead he just keeps throwing money at it. I just do not get that.

If Obama would get us out of the unwinnable war (like he promised) that will help reduce the deficit. But instead he just keeps throwing money at it. I just do not get that.

Me too. That's the thing I like the LEAST about the Obama administration. Stopping the wars is likely the #1 way to reduce our deficit.

End both wars like yesterday already!!

The current administration and Congress should have been promoting and passing legislation that would (1) give companies a reason to create new public sector jobs, (2) give companies a reason to keep jobs held by taxpaying U.S. citizens here in the U.S. and filled by U.S. citizens, and (3) give companies a reason to bring jobs that have been sent off shore, back to be filled by U.S. citizens. How, you might ask, could they do that? The answer is quite simple really, tax breaks! You see, companies are in business to make a profit for the individuals who invest in them. When taxes go up, those companies will find a way to reduce expenses, thus keeping profits up and one way to do that is to find cheaper labor, which usually translates to off shore hiring. Large enough tax breaks would provide the impetus necessary to reverse the trend to replace taxpaying U.S. workers with foreign nationals.

MSLady - I definately agree with you on this point. If there is one fatal flaw to the current administration's plan of action to restore our economy, which completely depends on the consumer (the middle class), it's their failure to push for job restoration in this country (notice I say administration as opposed to president, because again, I believe no one president has total control - that would be a dictatorship).

Nothing gets my ire up more than the discussion of offshoring American jobs. Maybe because I am a victim - that's right, I said victim - of this practice. In 2007 I was FORCED to train my "offshore partner" (you gotta love that term) to take my job. The deal was this - either be friendly, happy, and cooperative and train my "offshore partner" and then be entitled to a sweet severance package, or just be outright fired for being difficult, uncooperative, and whatever other negative junk they could come up with. I figured that maybe, if I was a good little girl, the company would realize how valuable I was and would decide to put me into another position - WRONG - at 4:00 p.m. on a Wednesday, I got a call to come into a conference room. A contract was put in front of me and I was told I had to sign it or I wouldn't get my severance package. The contract stated that I would not sue SunTrust Bank for wrongful termination. I got 3 months pay, could go home that day, and was sent to classes on how to "start my life over", so to speak.

To say that I feel bitter, resentful, etc., today is an understatement. After spending two months training my "offshore partner" and struggling through the language barrier, the very sound of an Indian accent today makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. In my new, current position, earning less than half what I used to earn, I have to routinely hear the sound of the accent that I have come to despise. It's like a cruel joke that corporate America has played on the middle class. "We've sent our best jobs to India (among other countries) and now we're going to rub it in your face over and over and over again. Too bad, so sad."

One more thing - I firmly believe that offshoring never had anything to do with saving money in order to prevent companies from financially collapsing. Quite the contrary, I think it was done to increase profits that went directly into the pockets of the top level executives. Sure, maybe share holders benefitted, but think about who the top share holders are.

When I put the question to the president of consumer lending at SunTrust Bank in a company conference call where anyone could ask questions (anyone who dared anyway) of why were they doing this, the answer was very simple - "because everyone else is doing it". Then I asked what would happen if so many jobs were offshored that little by little consumers no longer had jobs, therefore could no longer bank at SunTrust because of complete lack of income, the president stuttered, mumbled, and finally ask that someone get Lee Robinson, the director of consumer finance at the time, on the phone to answer my question. We all quietly waited for him - thousands of people across three states - and when he got on the phone, I was asked to repeat my question. His response - people could just go out and get jobs somewhere else. There would always be jobs to replace those lost from offshoring. Like hell there would be. Just look at us today.

Glory: Read the above posts and then make that statement again "the economy is on the right track". It's no where near a "right track". The Republicans voted "no" because the DEMOCRATS refused the amendments. The Republican's are doing everything they can to keep these liberal DEMS in check. That's why we need all DEMS OUT to reinstall the check and balance system. You want the parties to "come together", then vote out the Dems for balance.

The bill was blocked because Democrats loaded it up with pork and unnecessary spending, as usual. It is yet to be proven unequivocally, but maybe the Republicans have finally grown a spine.

Glory, not a republican, can only go on what I see occuring. We had a President tell us the stimulus was needed to keep unemployment at 8%, we are now at 9.7%. On top of that the taxpayers have had to foot the bill for 2 unemploymnet benefit extensions. To me that is failed policy 101.

I agree, they need to work together but that means give and take on both sides of the aisle.

The economy is on track? Are you out of your mind? Have you been down to the local welfare office? Do me a favor- go down on Monday and then tell me the economy is on track- what you see will surprise you. Go out to the suburbs and see house after house with "bank sale" signs. GO to the strip malls and see the empty buildings. The economy is not on track and it is not fixed. You see more business's closing each day, the lines at Welfare get longer each month and more and more houses go into foreclosure.

The barrage of economic reports are meaningless. One day they proclaim things are up, the next down and then they revise it all a month later and say nothing. For our economists, the recession started a year after people we knew lost their jobs.homes and ended 6 months ago and yet people still loss jobs/homes at alarming rates- and they project more will come.

Better to forgo making meaningless headlines to give people false hope and focus on the issues at hand which is JOBS for people. Should have been a focus before Bush left office and has yet to be a focus of the current administration. The only thing they need to work on is JOB- not keeping their own but helping rebuild the US so we have jobs.

Have any of you liberal democrats ever raised kids? Did you always say "yes", even when you knew it was a bad idea? Of course not! Sometimes you have to say "no" for the sake of your kids and for their long term welfare.

Republicans are rightfully saying "NO" to ill advised and unnecessary spending that are doing nothing but putting our country deeper and deeper into debt.

Even when they are not in power, you still want to blame the Republicans? For how long did the Democrats have control of the 3 branches? They had a 60 vote super majority and still produced nothing that has gotten this economy going anywhere. Seems the Democrats are just now trying to push their failures onto the Republicans like they always do. Not that I can blame them. Both parties do it. But they have been in control of at least 2 branches of government since 2006 and look where we are now since they took control?

Whats even more sad is, in a few months we will get revised growth figures and like always, they will be revised downward. So this 2.4% is likely 1.X%. Thank goodness for the "Stimulus" plan. That jobs creating health care overhaul also is doing amazingly. Of course we had to vote for it before we could find out what was actually in it. Thats smart legislating. Maybe we can have another stimulus package of a few more trillion dollars. Tossing all that money at the problem has "created or saved" less than 1 job per million spent. Give me a million dollars and I promise you I can create more than 1 job. I bet I could create a booming business even in this economy with 1 million dollars. Instead, our government squandered the money and now seeks to squander more. I'm sure thats all the Republicans fault.

And before that, we had a president telling us that the economy was "fundamentally sound." In the very next year (the last year of said president's term), unemployment doubled, Wall Street crashed, and the housing bubble burst. Amazing how people only see what they want to see.

one word for any improvements to the economy: filibuster

Dave buddy...that was McCain during the last presidential campaign.....but who cares about the facts...Let's blame Bush!!!

"I think the system is basically sound, I truly do," Bush said. 2008

"Republicans are rightfully saying "NO" to ill advised and unnecessary spending that are doing nothing but putting our country deeper and deeper into debt."

Sorry but you're wrong, where were the spend-thrift Republick'ons for the last 8 years? Why all of a sudden are they so concerned about debt? No, the political game on BOTH sides of the isle is and always has been this... no matter who's side is in power, it is the agenda of the other side to keep them from getting ANYTHING accomplished at all costs! The "reasoning" for not supporting ideas are just lame talking points as in this case the pot calling the kettle black, easily identified transparent excuses to those of us not blinded by the koolaid.

Sorry, I stand corrected. The words Bush used were "the economy was structurally sound" Feb. 2008.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSMpBUURRf0

where were the spend-thrift Republick'ons for the last 8 years?

Despite your childish name calling, I'll still respond to your post. I'm sure you are well aware that the democrats controlled congress during Bush's last term. In addtion, Bush is/was not a true conservative and many republicans (including myself) were not happy with the increase in debt during Bush's second term.

Until we get elected officials with the stones to make the hard fiscal decisions, we will continue to fall into the 2nd tier as a nation...

Hey, don't blame the economy on the GOP. Remember, the democrats had a filibuster proof majority for the last 2 years of Bush's reign. LOLOLOLOL! Nice try Jimmy! Jimmy take a class in economics and then find out what happens when you have an unfunded war on two fronts, tax cuts for the rich, and corrupt corporations that go unregulated as the swindle and maneuver to rob the economy, and then come back to us about the last two EIGHT years of Bush's reign.

unfunded war on two fronts, tax cuts for the rich, and corrupt corporations that go unregulated as the swindle and maneuver to rob the economy

Good little DNC boy there rudy! You managed to hit just about all of the DNC talking points in a single sentence! Prepare for democratic FLUD this election season (Fear, Lies, Uncertainty, and Doubt).

But all true, right Jimmy boy?

only in your feeble mind lil rudy.

Glory, Every Republican can say NO to everything and BO should still be able to get his stuff through. He has a majority in both houses. Point----he can't carry his own party.

Dave.. Just an FYI..

During the fall campaign, Obama relentlessly criticized his Republican opponent, Sen. John McCain, for declaring, “The fundamentals of our economy are strong.” Obama’s team painted the veteran senator as out of touch and failing to grasp the challenges facing the country.

But on Sunday, that optimistic message came from economic adviser Christina Romer. When asked during an appearance on NBC’s “Meet the Press” if the fundamentals of the economy were sound, she replied: “Of course they are sound.”

I saw Barney Frank's interview on CNBC yesterday. He comes at you quick and I can't remember what all he said. He started listing the ways that money can be saved. One, was getting out of Iraq. He said something about SS which at full retirement for those born after 1954 is 67. God love him. He starts firing these things out. Erin said it amounted to 140 billion in savings. I need to see a replay. MARK, that's a good one.

One could make a case for more stimulus and the programs Glory mentioned- IF not for the fact that the economy is NOT on the right track- that is, sustainable without huge big government outlays.

In previous recessions we never spent this much money trying to dig out of a hole, and what has it accomplished this time? We'll probably slip back into recession once the wasteful stimulus spending runs out.

Clearly Obama and the Democrats need to listen to someone other than themselves.

Jim,

You actually had kids? When you constantly "SAY NO" to kids without reason "just because" you choose to PARTY with your friends, under all circumstances, THAT DOESN'T MAKE YOU A PARENT ...

"Dad, can I go to school now? ". You say "No. Get a job. "But I'm only 7, pretty please?" "NO, G.D. IT. GET BACK IN THE BASEMENT".

"Dad, I'm hungry". You say "No, you ate yesterday". "But I'm so hungry, pretty please?" "G.D. IT, I SAID NO. NOW LEAVE ME ALONE; MY STEAK'S GETTING COLD".

"Daddy ... I'm still sick". "No kid of mine would dare get sick ... get me a beer." "I can't walk". "YOU'RE A WORTHLESS PIECE OF CRAP. NOW, GET OUT! AND DON'T COME BACK "

Your "so called kids" eventually have no choice but to:

- be traumatized and toe the line out of fear, parroting what you tell them to say, think and feel (ditto-head syndrome, an outcome you apparently desire)

- get angry, and become abusive like you, leading to possible violence, or at least a threatening presence (Tim McVeigh, the wannabes, or just false bravado - inciting violence)

- become passive-aggressive (tell you what you want to hear, but sabotaging your every step: consciously to bring you down, or sub-consciously out of guilt

- become totally uninvolved and uncaring (depressed, confused, ambivalent)

- become stronger, resilient, and critical thinkers. They become good citizens. They are what a REAL PARENT actually wants, but you see them only as your bitter enemies.

Current republicans/teapartiers, in many/most cases seem like they want to deny truth and history. They are doomed to repeat history.

darcylu:

WTF??? What kind of stupid post is that?

If you think the economy is not on the right track then please explain 4 consecutive quarters of economic growth.

Obama's policies are working, maybe not as quickly as some would like.

Please republicans explain your hippocrisy at wanting the Bush tax cuts to remain, when doing so will increase the deficit 1.5 trillion dollars. You stated that unemployment extension was not as important as the deficit.

darcy take ur meds!!!!!!!!!

Glory states - The economy is on the right track

Where are facts and figures to back up this statement?

This economy is worse than when Jimmy Carter was in office, the only difference is no Gas lines

patriotgal - you said:

"WTF??? What kind of stupid post is that?"

Thanks, you have helped me prove my point.

republicans/teapartier's want to be taken seriously, but they are only trying to sound like beck and limbaugh. So if you love glenn and rush, you love the message.

If you are a critical thinker, all you can hear is the swearing, screaming,and hate.

To those in America who are listening to you:

Are you having a pity party? That's what it sounds like to us.

Are you having a hate rally? That's what it sounds like to us.

Are you having a trying to bring down America? That's what it sounds like to us.

It is sort of similar to the stereotype of a husband getting that glazed look in his eyes, as soon as an overbearing, nagging wife opens her mouth.

Maybe a little hand-holding would save the marriage, but it sounds like we are way past that ...

If you truly wanted to be heard, then you have to accept that your presentation style is all wrong.

Just because YOU want EVERYTHING NOW, does not give you the sole right to have it. You might just get nothing at all.

Recovery Slows?? Their is no Recovery who are they trying to kid!!

Glory,

Reread the article, the economy is anything but on track. Wall street anylysts are putting growth at 2.4% the government on the other hand is saying 3.7%. Funny but 3.4% is higher than any of the Bush years which averaged about 3.2%, given this administrations record of stretching the truth and then saying they miscalculated I'll go with the more realistic Wall Street extimate. They have no incentive to down play the growth numbers where as Obama has every reason to be overly optomistic. Until Mr. Obama and his rabid liberals in congress do something meaningful about unemployment other than expand government spending and government jobs the economy will not turn the corner and remain sluggish. When people aren't working they don't have money to spend and without spending money in a service oriented economy, there are no new jobs to be created. The top 1% of wage earners are what is floating us along right now because they are still spending, but everyone else is still staying tightening the belt.

all DEMS OUT to reinstall the check and balance system. You want the parties to "come together", then vote out the Dems for balance.

How is voting one party out going to restore checks and balances?

We conservatives don't have to look for fault with BO. He gives us plenty on his own. What gets me is how he can do what he does; then, go on The View and THINK----I'm doing well? They wanted to hold back debate on immigration until after the election. It seems like we're pretty deep into now.

Actually Dano,

Did you read jim's post? He said:

"Have any of you liberal democrats ever raised kids? Did you always say "yes", even when you knew it was a bad idea? Of course not! Sometimes you have to say "no" for the sake of your kids and for their long term welfare.

I was just informing him what republicans/teapartiers "sound like", and your reaction?

"Typical play out of the liberal playbook...scream loudly and don't care if you make any sense...people will respond to you just by being noisy!"

"Serial deflection syndrome", I don't know what you call it, but we are not fooled ... never again.

I am not surprised that you are still trying after all these years ... you blame others for what is your true nature ... just more of the same. "I AM NOT A CROOK" you say, but we look past your words, to your actions.

Clinton impeachment hearings over manufactured outrage. How much did that cost America?

A manufactured "war on drugs". How much is that still costing us?

A made up Iraqi war ... based on lies and fear. Costs all, every day us ..... omg.

Tax-cuts for the rich ... omg.

You can insult me all you want ... you think you can shame me into playing nice? We are not fooled.

We are not fooled ... we would enjoy the comic relief even more, if is wasn't so destructive.

Obama and his band of sheep would have you think differently but the real fact is when rich people are taxed less they pay more in taxes. I know Obama is trying to find someone to blame for his many mistakes. So I have a solution for "our" president since he has already proven he is a racist why not blame the financial trouble you and your sheep have created on the JEWS! Your thoughts would be appreciated. I can be contacted at work http://www.bestmichiganbusinesses.com were still in Beta so me and Granholm and Obama are all doing the same thing. Watching the paint dry. I wish my boss would give be enough time off the get in some golf, oh well.
"your religion is politics and your God is Obama" a great man said that. Continue to cling to your religion and your God I understand how it can be comforting to someone stupid enough to think the Government is going to take care of them.

my mistake: last line in #3.34 should read:

"We are not fooled ... we would enjoy the comic relief even more, if IT wasn't so destructive.

Someone didn't take their meds.

You say when both parties come together..eh. That will happen when the Democratically controlled Congress quit with Socialistic ideas and come back to being Americans again. I don't want the Republicans or Independents to go along with these left leaning Democrats. I want them to HOLD THE LINE.

Jeff-Las Vegas - Are you out of your mind? Have you been down to the local welfare office? - Hey Jeff, yes, unfortunately i have, i know, it's full, but the hardest part about being there is trying to find someone that speaks english, lol, that and having to ask for a handout when inside your dying because you really don't want to be there.

I was getting tired of the "elite" in Washington telling us how good things are since they passed the so called "stimulus package"......now I am tired of them telling us "things could be worse, so get over it".

Obama and Nancy Pelosi remind me of parents forcing their sick children (US Citizens) to eat mud soup (Socialistic policies) with all this crap they have literally shoved down our throats against the will of the American People:

Obama: Come on, eat it, it will be good for you and it will make you feel better.

US Citizens: No thank you, it doesn't look good, it smells bad, and having to eat that would make me want to vomit.

Pelosi: Nonsense! Just trust us, after you have had a chance to taste it I think you will really like it.

US Citizens: What's in it?

Pelosi: Well, you don't need to worry about that, I have gone through all of it......well most of it anyway, and I really think you will feel better after eating it. You'll just have to trust me, it will be much easier to explain what's in the soup after you eat it.

US Citizens: Please don't make us eat that, we really don't want to. It looks and smells like mud soup.

Obama: Mud soup!? No! That is just your brothers and sisters trying to scare you, stop paying attention to them. Trust only those whom I tell you to trust.

US Citizens: Stop making me eat this! It tastes gross.....it tastes like MUD SOUP!!!

Obama: Just let it sit in your stomachs for a while, it will eventually make you feel better. Trust me, it's good for you.

US Citizens: I think I am going to throw up. This is making me sick!

Obama: No, you feel fine. You're not going to throw up. You should be thanking me for this.

US Citizens: (After becoming very ill and vomiting). NO! This is not making us feel any better, it is making us feel sick! Why won't you listen to us and stop forcing this down our throats?

Obama: Look, things could be worse. So get over it.

@glory - you're either incredibly naive or have some type of attention deficit disorder. Really. The Republicans aren't just arbitrarily saying "no." They are regularly saying "no" to stupidity and trying to keep the damage to a minimum, as far as I can tell. They have not become the party of "no" they've become the party of "no, not even we're that dumb."

@dave- same old song and dance. Blame Bush. What a tired, sad, old mantra that's become. It appears that the Democrats are using a page from Goebbels who said, and I paraphrase, "If you say something long enough and loud enough, pretty soon everyone will believe what you say is true." It's verifiable that Bush went before Congress to voice his concern to Barney Frank that the lending practices being allowed by Freddie and Fanny were ill advised and would lead to major mortgage defaults, for example. Frank told President Bush that everything was just fine and that there was nothing to worry about. So dave, you may be selling, but nobody's buying, at least not on this board. By the way, as someone so aptly said, the argument comes in a pair. You forgot to tell us we were all racists. Covered that for you, dude.

As a side note, I remember around five or six months ago when the debates on any given topic were roughly evenly split between Obama supporters and smart people. (Eric? Eric?) Now, it seems just about everybody is taking a jab at Hussein. It's like he's become a pinata. I have a feeling come November, he's gonna get smacked right in the mouth by way of Congress and then my fear is what are the lame ducks gonna do between having their butts handed to them and January. Keep you're eyes peeled folks, film at eleven!!!!!!!

WHAT RECOVERY? Someone seems to be drinking the Kool-Aid!

It sems to me that president Obama want to tax and spend us into a recovery! LOL

Has anyone else noticed that the 49% of our population not paying taxes almost universally support the Dems??

Van - Bloomington

Do you read what you post?

One could make a case for more stimulus and the programs Glory mentioned- IF not for the fact that the economy is NOT on the right track- that is, sustainable without huge big government outlays.

…kind of makes you think, don’t it? That must have been some big hole to fill that took that “huge big government outlay” and still not sustainable on its own.

In previous recessions we never spent this much money trying to dig out of a hole, and what has it accomplished this time? We'll probably slip back into recession once the wasteful stimulus spending runs out.

Wow! Remind me again how the GOP ‘just say no’ party is helping us through all this.

Foolish me – I forgot they are a political party that put country first, err…I mean party first; you know the getting back into power thing. I am sure once they are back in power everything will be fine; we will balance our budget; pay off our debt; end all the wars; end taxation; the Dow will go to 20000; no foreclosures - everyone in a home; no poverty - everyone working again; no outsourcing; no corruption; just like it was in 2008 – before that N-word from Kenya went to the white house and stole our country and turned it into Hitler’s socialism. Am I right y’all?

americanwarrior

P.S. the above goes for you also - I mean, you are in a league all by yourself. Your intellect surpasses all stupidity, and I say so with all due regards to Tyler.

The place you call home "is an illusion". What's wrong?

It's simple. Recovery stops at the top. The fat cats at the top of hill are making good and sure that their pockets are well lined before the rest of us get any of their scraps. Everyone blames the President, but did it ever occur to anyone that these CEOs who are pocketing big bonuses from recovery money vote Republican?

cory

It would help if their were markets for our goods anywhere, what little we still produce that has value anyway. The fat cat CEOs get paid to produce profits, that is their job and if they are doing it in this economy they are earning every penny. It is not their responsibility to throw scraps to the little guy it is their job to make a profit, end of story. If you have a problem with that I suggest you go out and find a job or if you work at Mcdonalds, a better paying one. Be prepared to be disappointed however as those jobs are few and far between in normal conditions let alone now. If Obama and the Democrats in congress would do something constructive or pay attention to what republicans have been trying to tell them the last 2 years things could be better than they are, instead they are intent on throwing more money down the social hole with out a clue where they are going to get it from.

You want to know where the money is going, look at the corporate socialism that republicans love. One example would be the private contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan. We pay our military minimum wages, and we turn around and give private companies money for jobs that pay hundreds of times more. My son has been offered over $400,000/yr (he is 22yrs old) for doing the work for a contractor in Afghanistan that he would have done for pennies if he were still in the army. Why does nobody bitch about that? The rich get richer at OUR expense all the time.

lib50 - when I was in the military, it was the liberal democrats who said no, the military members don't need a pay raise. The Republican's understand that to maintain the standing as a super power, you need to have a Military force that is second to none. The current administration has spread the Military assets so thin, that countries like Iran and North Korea do not feel that they need hold back from destroying thier neighbors. If a company in Afghanistan offered your son $400K as a contractor it is most likely to protect the opium traffic for the region. Instead of being bitter because your son is defending the Constitution and protecting America you should be praising the job he is doing for this country.

Have you thanked a VET today?

You totally missed the point of my post. And you are also wrong about republicans knowing that our military needs to be second to none. First of all, thousands of soldiers were sent to Iraq and Afghanistan WITHOUT THE BEST EQUIPMENT. I should also mention that it was not a good idea to start an unnecessary war in Iraq when Afghanistan needed our full attention. That one decision alone had ramifications that reverberate today - none so important as Iran, which now has more power and prestige than ever since we took their biggest enemy out. That and the fact 2 long term wars tend to take up our military resources, spreading them thinly. I think we know who has used up our military resources.

What you you talking about "bitter"? My son served 4 years in the army, 15 months in Iraq and is a decorated veteran. I have ALWAYS supported the troops, and my anger is that we pay private companies so much more than we pay our troops. You seem to have no problem with that. Why do you think it is OK to spend trillions to private contractors? Why not expand the military for those jobs and save us all a lot of money?

Have you thanked a VET today?

Not only that, I let him live here while he goes to college. He even gets fed once in a while. You won't find anyone who supports vets as much as I do.

@Governmentforthepeople - Love it, dude. Well done; wish I'd written that! lmao........

That is a very, very good point re: the Democrats being afraid of their left wing, Handgunner. It also applies to the Republicans - they're afraid of their right wing.

The real disaster here is that the vast majority of the people in this country are not far left liberals, nor are they far right conservatives. The reality is, whether the people want to admit it or not, is that this country is right of center and the Dems pandering to their far left is doing them MORE harm than the Republicans pandering to their far right.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/141032/2010-conservatives-outnumber-moderates-liberals.aspx

I haven't voted Republican in a presidential or Congressional election since 1988 - and the only Republican I can remember voting for at all is Rudy Guliani for mayor of NYC. The Democrats have lost me at this point, and based on the polling trends, they've lost tens of millions of people like me, and for the worst possible reason. They've lost us NOT because the Republicans are so great - they're just they other end of the same turd, but because the Republicans are NOT Democrats.

I agree with Pragmatic, as an "Obamacan" in the last general election I am so disappointed that this administration and this congress .... with a SUPER MAJORITY ... cannot even govern. You can disagree with the GOP platform all you may want to but at least that party can govern when it has a majority.

Ya mean as with Bush's so self-proclaimed "mandate", when the fact is... the country didn't vote FOR him, they just voted AGAINST Kerry (wow, I'm learning to spin just like a true republick'on)!

Or Democrat...

Both sides are equally to blame for the current states of affairs...

Obama is getting exactly what he wants - he was an effing socialist before the presidential election, and he's an effing socialist now.

:rollseyes:

I can't believe people actually believe this nonsense.

its common sense its right before your eyes

I have heard the president called a Marxist, Communist, Socialist, Muslim, illegal immigrant and Nazi. That is not only absurd, but it is impossible to be all of those things at once.

All of the problems we face now are due to both parties and our own apathy. I don't really understand why so many people feel like they need to align themselves with one party or the other. That makes it "us" against "them". That makes it easier for polititians to get over on us and harder for us to look at the facts.

Get a grip, people. If the Democrats fail, we all fail. If the Republicans fail we all fail. Does it matter who told who what? For Christ's sake, Obama is the president of the United States. If you don't like him, grab a ballot in 2012. If you think the next suit will be looking out for you just because he smiles and says he (or she) understands you, then you can't see the steamroller coming.

I am just tired of people telling me that any polititian knows his head from a toilet ring.

If you make $20,000.00 a year, you can't afford a $400,000.00 house. If you fight 2 wars, you have to pay taxes to support your troops and that effort that the majority of the taxpayers see as necessary. (Whether we pay now, or later in whatever form, we will pay). If you can't teach your kids to be respectful and responsible, how is a 26 year old teacher with 30 kids an hour to look after supposed to?

Issue after issue. Blah, blah, blah. Whatever. Our government is a reflection of we, the governed. Selfish, irresponsible and petty.

You want change? Look to ourselves first, not a polititian.

and he's an effing socialist now.

Republicans are effing CORPORATE socialists and have been for years.

No, they put abortions in the New Healthcare reform bill, that way we can all pay for it...

George, your last three words are spot on.

I'm sorry--did you call him a president? This occupant of the oval office in no way resembles a president. He is an imposter lacking any creditials or credability. Could I revise your statement to say, "This occupant of the oval office S****?"

President? You mean Dictator

you don't have to 'figure' a way..........he's a radical left-winger and has one agenda and that is to break the country and he's well on his way of doing so.

You are spot on correct, Dancnman. Each time there is a negative report on any aspect of American life (economy, jobs, entitlements, etc) there is rejoicing in the conservative camp. I sincerely believe that the most vocal of conservatives would welcome calamity if it could be blamed on the incumbents so as to improve their political posture. I've never know a time when Democrats and Republicans didn't differ substantially on issues ~ and I'm 72 years old. Today is the first time in that long life that I have seen abject hatred replace philosophical differences, with an accompanying campaign to sell that hatred to the American people.

Are you joking....the first time you have seen abject hatred??? Does the name George W. Bush ring a bell? The simple mention of that name did... and still does... drive the left into an apoplectic frenzy.

Conservatives are not rejoicing at all this negative news...they are angry...angry because the policies of this administration are taking a bad situation and making it worse.

Jim in Texas... you mean to tell me the Democrats didn't celebrate with every negative economic report in 2008?

Give us all a break.

Jim

You are right to the extent that there is deep hatred for the other side. And that really started with GWB's election. No matter what you say he won the election. But at that point the "progressives" started a hate campaign against him.

I am not quite as old as you, 69, but I expect I will never see a United States again. Differences, yes, but in the past there was some patriotic love of country. Not now. I spent 22 years in the military, during which time I did some things which were in conflict with my personal beliefs, because I took an oath to do so. I can tell you now that I would NEVER fight for this country again.

I of course have views on what is happening but I intend to live out my life with the view as to what is in it for me. To hel l with the rest of you. No offense but the "progressives" have ruined a very good country.

Seriously, he had the stones to actually say that? Hahahahahahahahahaha! Did Joy faint in ecstasy? Did anybody in the audience laugh? I would've.

they were probably all to busy creaming their jeans.LMAO

owlgal, I'm afraid we ain't seen nothin' yet!

Owlgal

Do you really expect anyone here to change your situation? You don't understant that's all. Taxes are imposed on business not individuals.

Calvin: The next time you get your cell phone bill, you may wish to check it very carefully. Taxes are levied on businesses that are passed onto all consumers by virtue of using that service, whether or not the Government adds value to that service. So yes, taxes are levied upon businesses and individuals.

@calvin - you need Hobbs to help you figure out how taxation works and who gets taxed for what, how much, and why.

I don't think they're trying to control the fire. I think they're throwing fuel on it. (Stimulus, etc.). I firmly believe this (and even previous administrations) are attempting to bring the economy down. While they talk about "recovery" they are planning its demise. Can't become part of the World Government until you destroy sovereignty of the U.S. first. Best way to accomplish that is to destroy the economy, open the borders and let us be overrun. The U.S. is toast.

-Max

I'll have a go, Jim.

Economy/Employment: The one way, open door trade agreements we have need to be retooled. There needs to be taxation on offshore earnings, offset by a decrease in the domestic corporate tax rate. The Bush tax credits need to be extended and phased out over time (if at all) rather than reinstated in one fell swoop. Then, some meaningful reforms need to be made to the entire tax structure to eliminate the current situation we are in whereby 47% of the workforce pays NO income tax, the upper income is able to shield too much of their income from taxes via offshoring, etc. My favored solution to this is a progressive, flat tax with no exclusions, no write offs, starting at 150% of the poverty level at 1% of income. A second preference would be the elimination of income tax entirely, replaced with a progressive consumption tax, that selects certain luxury and high-ticket items for higher rates (ie Kerry's yacht, a fur coat) but exempts "necessities", ie a fridge or a car. Yes, I believe the tax structure in this country is primarily to blame for the lack of jobs.

War/Defense: Scale back enormously our presence globally. We have nearly 1,000 military installations across the globe. Bring those troops home and secure the boders - south and north. I'm actually quite satisfied with Obama's plans for Iraq. We need to get out of Afghanistan - yesterday. 100k boots on the ground and nationbuilding is far, far beyond the scope of what's necessary or prudent. For 5,000 years, that part of the world has been torn by conflict - Bush wasn't going to change that and neither is Obama. And Obama is uniquely unequipped to combat terrorism, since he doesn't recognize it for what it is. End it, now.

Social programs: The cap on SS contributions needs to eliminated entirely, the retirement age needs to be raised to 70 reflecting extended longevity and there needs to be needs testing for both government pensions AND SS. Most importantly, the money collected from SS needs to be put BACK INTO THE LOCKBOX and not used in the general fund. I also support the idea of SS being privatized, if for no other reason than to prevent the government from spending it on other nonsense - including war. Medicare also needs to be means tested, and not mandatory upon enrolment in SS. I applaud Obama's small first step towards combating government waste - that needs to be multiplied by 100 and applied to every single sector of the bloated government, AND the large population states especially need to do the same exact thing.

Debt retirement: Stop spending, redirect any remaining funds in TARP and the stimulus to debt retirement. One issue, one bill, one vote legislation, passed on PAYGO ONLY, no matter what it is. PASS A BUDGET, and stick to it!!!!!!!!!

Consumer confidence would respond positively to all of the above, since one main source of the lack of confidence is lack of trust in the government to make hard choices - no matter what the special interests want them to do. To which I was add, massive campaign finance overhaul that makes elections publicly funded - no more special interest vote buying via campaign contributions, PERIOD.

Great suggestions, Pragmatic. I agree with many of them, especially a flat or progressive use tax. But corporations would be kicking over tables and chairs for exemptions, otherwise many of them would see a sizable tax INCREASE and that would be counter-productive. I agree on military curtailment and worldwide presence. At our current rate, its not long until the military is our primary item in gross national product. While you offer some logical solutions, you are not taking into consideration the laws of unintended consequences ~ ~ ~ and there will be many that surface almost immediately. The one suggestion you offer that I am totally in favor of enacting is prohibiting "riders" and "attachments" to legislative bills. They should stand on their own and be limited to one specific issue. Do away with the legislative caveat "and for other purposes."

Although we all agree that we should stop spending, if we do this economy will crater and we will be plunged into unrecoverable depression.

Well put. Key has to be addressing the global economic conditions that keeps the US out of an even playing field, costing millions upon millions of middle class jobs. How can a US worker compete against wages in asia and elsewhere when those countries have no regard for human rights, safety and the environment. Do we really need more lead paint in our toys or slave labor children assembling iPhones? Let the free market reign, but keep those that do not play by the rules off the playground.

Thanks for the responses. I intentionally required "specificity" which eliminated a lot of the normal Obamaphobic comments. Oil, you have raised an interesting point. It may be cheaper to build things off shore but the marketplace for production is still the United States of America. Maybe someday we will realize that we can level that playing field by eliminating those products from our shelves. There is an interesting thing about a free market system. If there is a need, someone will rise to fill that need. If we create that need by refusing to allow foreign products to undermine our economy, our society, and our nation, someone in the US will rise to fill that need. Free market enterprise is virtually perpetual as supply/demand dictates its overall operation. Now to bring this about, we would need a president and a congress with balz ~ and that demand has not been supplied in almost a half century.

Jim, I disagree completely that a 5% cut to government spending - across the board and including defense - would crater the economy. On the contrary, several analysists I saw on CNBC the other day were saying the exact opposite would happen - in combination with closure on the Bush tax cuts: people from the board room to main street would see some decisive action agains the ballooning debt, and uncertainty would be eliminated on taxation going into 2011.

There are always unintended consequences, and a five paragraph post on a blog isn't intended to address everything that "could" happen. However, I have gotten quite sick of the "might happen" fear mongering - from both sides of the aisle. Case in point, AZs immigration law "might" result in racial profiling - despite the fact that the law says four times that racial profiling is forbidden. In any situation, the best case scenario will always have a potential downside and I for one am fed up with doing nothing or making too many exceptions to avoid causing difficulty for one group that increases the difficulty for another disporportionately.

For instance, in truth I would favor a complete dismantling of the SS system. That system, and the taxation needed to finance it, is part of the reason for stagnating wages. The government has effectively, over the past several decades, taken away one liberty after another and jobs by the millions "for our own good" to sacrifice on the alter of the "greater good". However, realisticaly, I know that's never going to happen. So instead I advocate for an enforced return of the trust we are FORCED to have in the government - via confiscatory taxation of OUR OWN wages - through the SS system. Fine, MAKE us save for our retirement, BUT you (the government) do NOT get to use our money for whatever the hell you want in the meantime.

I don't know how old you are, prag. But I know my social security yearly statement comes with a brochure that says "Don't worry. You'll receive about 70 cents for every dollar you put in." And frankly, everybody in my generation knows thats a giant lie. With inflation it will probably equal about 30 cents to the dollar. So not only are they making us "save for retirement" but its a kind of scheme where you actually LOSE MONEY by SAVING. In Japan I had to pay a hefty yearly tax that was marked as "elderly support tax". USA should just scrap SS and just put the "old person tax" in its place and let me do my retirement savings myself.

Jim - great thread! It's nice to see a rational discussion like this on these boards and you deserve the credit for getting it started!

Pragmatic - the only item I really disagreed with you on was the bit about a means test for SS. In a few decades when I'm at that age I'd like to get back some of the money I put into the system. We always save and we've built up a decent nest egg over the years so we may not have to have it to live, but I think it's fair that I get some of my money back. If there will be a means test then I'd like to change the name from SS to something like 'another tax' since that's all it is at that point.

It's going to be interesting to see how England's economy reacts to the cost cutting their government is doing. If I heard correctly they are trying about a 75/25 mix of cost cutting and new taxes to get their house in order. If it works there (which I hope), maybe we could do something similar...

Ron - the thing is, SS and more recently Medicare, were developed at a time when there were 6 workers paying in for every 1 retiree drawing benefits. We're approaching, with the retirment of the Baby Boom, a situation where there will only be 2 or 3 workers for every retiree. It's going to take a good 20-30 years to start to tip the scale back to where there are enough contributors versus retirees to make the system work unless it is overhauled massively. And if people who don't actually need the money aren't drawing from it at all, or at a lesser amount than they're technically "entitled" to, that might help right the ship.

I completely understand your opinion on this, believe me. I'm also a couple decades away from retirement, and will be working until I'm dead by choice - and paying in. We're also doing our best to be able to support ourselves without a dime from SS, because I have NO faith it will actually be there.

However, the alternative is if you have children, which I do - that THEY must pay for our old age via confiscatory taxation of their wages. If, in my dottage they so choose to extend their wealth and home to me, fine. I do NOT want the government confiscating their earnings and lessening their quality of life and consequently my grandchildren's quality of life, for my benefit.

Jim

Leadership

First and most important is that there must be some leadership. That is the responsibility of the Commander-in-Chief. That leadership must reflect a love of country and not a love of party. Not a love of self importance. A rising tide floats all boats. Not the economy but the people. If most of the people are pissed off, the minority will be made to suffer. Look at unemployment in the black community. You can ask almost anything of the american people and they will respond, but never never demand. Leadership is not getting people to agree to do what they want to do, it's getting people to agree to do what they do NOT want to do.

The economy

The economy is business/trade. You can not improve the economy without business. So stop talking down business, they are the economy. The government can not create jobs in the private sector, that must be done by business. Jobs created in the government must be paid for by taxing the private sector. The most important thing that government can do to promote the economy is to stabilize the rules for some forseable future. Business can not operate in a constantly changing environment.

Unemployment

Would it be asking to much that government ask business what would entice them to "come home". Businesses are owned and run by people just like you who get up in the morning put on their pants and go to work. Do those people make LOTS of money? YES. Can you do what they do? Stop being jealous. If the CEO of BP makes 60 million a quarter that represents something like one tenth of one percent of net profits. And what does he do with it? 1. he spends it on things that employ people. 2. he saves it in some institution which lends it to other businesses so they can employ people. I know it is popular to hate your boss but then don't be surprised if he moves to some place where he is appreciated. After all he's just a man/woman.

Social programs

Stop trying to take care of everyone from Washington. If it is truly the welfare of the people then it is best done at the lowest possible level. True or Not if it comes from washington it is seen as buying votes. Stop it. Do you really think that we will have decaying bodies in the street? What happened to people before all these programs? Local assistance to those truly in need.

Consumer confidence

This is something like respect. There is no way to purchase either. They must be earned. But a start would be to represent all your constituents. Not just targeted groups who are more likely to vote your way. It is back to leadership. Perception is reality. If you are perceived to be dishonest then in the eyes of the nation you are dishonest. Confidence is generated over time by leadeship in which the general public can say, "I don't always agree with him/her but I respect them and feel they have my best interest at heart." This is not taught at Harvard,Yale, or Princeton. This is taught by Gunny Sgts in the marine corp. That is why the military ALWAYS commands more respect and favorable ratings than congress/president.

The war

What war? There is no war. The purpose of war is to kill, maim, and destroy until the enemy has no more will to resist. That is not what we are involved in.

PragmaticToAFault

I know you mean well and probably have good intensions – but the road to hell is paved with good intensions. You wrote:

For instance, in truth I would favor a complete dismantling of the SS system. That system, and the taxation needed to finance it, is part of the reason for stagnating wages. The government has effectively, over the past several decades, taken away one liberty after another and jobs by the millions "for our own good" to sacrifice on the alter of the "greater good". However, realisticaly, I know that's never going to happen. So instead I advocate for an enforced return of the trust we are FORCED to have in the government - via confiscatory taxation of OUR OWN wages - through the SS system. Fine, MAKE us save for our retirement, BUT you (the government) do NOT get to use our money for whatever the hell you want in the meantime.

You are one uniformed and mixed up person – please re-read and clarify. I won’t bash or hold you responsible until you do and re-post – that would be a waste of time.

You guys cannot even agree amongst yourselves here and you are doing the exact same thing that congress is doing – small wonder, congress comes from you. The answer is not about specific policies or programs; if it was we would have fixed it a long time ago and it would have remained fixed. The problem is we are all interest groups trying to look out for ourselves rather than what is in the best interest of the nation as a whole Even when we agree we still try to water down to appease. You all are doing it here and congress does it every day, hence; those with the most power and influence will have the most sway – that what you need to fixed first.

Second: Stop the drain on the middle class – Place high tariffs on goods coming into the country from American businesses manufacturing plants abroad; Stop the corporate welfare, end the tax cuts and loop holes for the richest 1% and give them to small business instead.

Third: Our national debt is great, but it is nowhere near the doom and gloom being bandied about. Our economy is a $13,800,000,000,000 giant (largest in the world). True, our national debt is also a $13,000,000,000,000 giant – but more than 48% of that is money bowered from ourselves (like borrowing from your 401K). Everyone is talking owing China – we owe China a mere $889 billion (which would not be so bad if we were not flooding our market with their cheap goods (courtesy of Big Business greed). We are not going to spend or budget our way out of this debt – we must grow and make money to pay it off. To do this people need to work and pay taxes; business need to make money and pay taxes (not tax shelters, outsourcing and paying CEOs $660,000,000 bonuses).

Fourth: I keep hearing about fair tax and flat tax and the thing I notice about this argument is that it is being made by rich people ( and @%&$#s with no clue). These people also claim that 50% of the country pays no taxes. Huh? Could they be talking about the rich? They better be, because the people who pay the most are the middle class and poor people – that’s how the top 20% manage to have 85% of the nation’s wealth; by passing their taxes down to the rest of us. Everyone pays taxes, but the poor pays more – not just in direct taxes to states and the federal government, but every time they buy anything.

Eric, since the last stimulus unemployment has risen 2.5% and the taxpayers have been put on the hook for not 1 but 2 unemployment benefit extensions. IT DIDN'T WORK!!!

The taxpayers of this country can not afford another failed economic program.

Eric...have you been sniffing glue again?? You know what kind of dainbramage it can cause..as evident by this post. In a few more years Chavez will have Venezuela looking like the place where you would love to be.

Companies hire workers when they need them to produce something or to provide a service.

Obama's "boot heel" will only succeed in driving more businesses into bankruptcy.

It was construction boom, military spending and 4 years ago it started going down hill and final collapse and the Republican got kicked out of the white house and handed the mess they created to the next administration. With the stimulant, first in order was to save government jobs that he did. Bail out the financial system, extended unemployment benefits, bail out the auto industry and in jobs: off shore wind turbine as much as possible that will start hiring within a year, sprinkled 2 billion on solar power plant (only 3000 jobs), then road construction and repair infrastructure, the feds distribute these kind of funds every four years out of tax revenue. Then the major job creator, fast rail between major cities and light rail in inner city is out of funding before it even started, and when deficits started getting out of control, he started cuts like the Kennedy space center, Medicaid …etc, increased transactions fees on everything from car registration to notary public (Hidden taxes). Learn on the job.

Obama knows the “no jobs’ is not going to win him the next election He focused on Jewish vote, that he will get, focused on African vote, that he will get, focused on Hispanic vote by suing Arizona and appointing Hispanic women In the supreme court. Increased military spending and many speeches as commander in chief to get the military vote. Then go on “The view’ to get woman vote. Some will still be buying his speeches, but remember the story of “Lila and the wolf”

Or to China or pakistan

I say again- you could make the case for additional stimulus if there was any evidence the economy needed just a little help- in other words that it was moving toward sustainablity with huge government bailouts. But there is no evidence to support this. In spite of the bailouts and multiple takeovers and programs like "Cash for Clunkers" the economy sputters and could fall back into an official recession once the current largely wasted stimulus runs out.

Under those circumstances more stimulus would just be throwing good (?) money after bad.

Congress better go ahead and vote in unemployment benifits through 2012 because businesses are not going to hire anyone until this administration is out of office.

MAD--------- You right on. No businessperson in their rght mind is going to risk any money either on equpment or people as long as this adminstration.

They replace something when it is completely worn out or hoplesslly obsolete and that is it.

We have an administration in office thatb is anti business, he is a quasi socialist, trying to lure us down the path to full unbridled socialism.

He is, eveidently a practicing meglomaniac, who feels he can just ignore the opinions of half of the country and just keep doing it.

Forunately it appears that he will be a lame duck after the Nov. elections.

MAD--------- You right on. No businessperson in their rght mind is going to risk any money either on equpment or people as long as this adminstration.

Not necessarily. Business growth and employment expansion are based on potential for profit. If that potential exists, it doesn't matter who is in office. That said, if there is no potential for profit, the same rule applies notwithstanding which political party is in control of government. Our economy no longer stands alone ~ it is tied to the worldwide state of fiscal condition. Note major swings in our markets when there are economic issues in Europe or Asia. Regarding Obama and a second term ~ he won't have a prayer. IN all honesty, I think his first election was more a novelty than anything else. Its obvious he can't run his own administration and therefore he is unable to run a country.

uhm $900,000,000,000 / 300,000,000 = $3,000 per capita

Your figures are a little bit off. (I know, all those zero's mess me up too sometimes)

Tarp was 700 billion = $2,333 per american (300 million population)

Stimulus = 800 Billion = $2,667 per american

Now, while it might be nice to have an extra 5 grand for families that are affected by this, it wouldnt last very long and after the money was spent, we would be in the same boat we are in now. the only difference would be that these companies that got bailed out would have folded and the job losses would have been higher.

The thing is, TARP turned into a failure. the banks were supped to use that money and free up credit and they didn't.(most didn't even want the money and were forced to take it by the fed) They used it to shore up their bottom line. And I don't think anyone (mainly our president and congress) realized that the stimulus was only a band aid and the original problem is still there. The govt's actions in the past 18 months have not fixed the problem. At best, they only kicked it down the road.

I don't blame Obama for the problems that got us into theis mess and I agree with posters above that this was 20-30 years in the making. I do, however, hold him (and his congress) accountable for his failures after January 20th, 2009.

Probably because the money would have used to purchase imported products which does not help the US economy.

Just don't accept that next unemployment check....you will be helping american.

What concerns me most is that we spent over $300,000 per America for the stimulus and we are sitting exactly where we were almost two years ago.

except that the stimulus didn't spend $300,000 per American. You're off by two orders of magnitude (nice math btw).

Lets say $900B for the stimulus, and 300 million people (this will give a high estimate since the stimulus was really only $852B and there are more than 300 million americans, but I digress).

Anyway, $900B/300M = $3000/American

Here is the best post on this whole board! It's all about jobs and I don't mean thousands of tax supported federal do nothing jobs that Obama and the SEIU want to ram down the throats of tax payers. Socialism doesn't work, it just keeps taking and taking and taking and that is Obama's answer for America.

I want one too, but I want one that serves a purpose and solves a problem; not one that is given out to keep me from twiddling my thumbs for 6 mos or a year.

How many applications have you filled out this week? There are jobs out there. It may not be what you want to do, but there is gainful employment to be had.

If you have a family, you may have to work 2 or 3 jobs you don't like. If you racked up your credit cards through the last 8 years buying things you couldn't afford, you may have to file bankruptcy. If you bought too much house because you were "fooled" into thinking you could afford it by the big, bad TV commercials, you may have to take a loss and move.

A lot of very good people need unemployment insurance, many of whom paid into it throughout the years they were working. Many don't deserve it at all. These are hard times created by all of us, not any one political party. Go flip burgers or bartend. Wait tables, cut grass, dig a ditch... Whatever.

When this is over, hopefully we don't forget to take responsibility for ourselves and spend within our means.

I feel for you, buddy. Just keep at it.

and he ain't done....reasearch HR 5741 Universal National Service Act. Yupper...it's introduced to committee. EVERYONE in the US between the ages of 18-42 will serve in this civil corp. Does Third Reich come to mind???

Um... where were your cries of impeachment during the 8 years of the Bush/Cheney dictatorship via the same accusations you listed, quite as a mouse I'm sure (they NEVER EVER lied about anything did they)! Whatever sheeple.

Are you out of your mind, Shelly? Obviously you have not thought this out very well. If we impeach Obama, we get Joe Biden (now that's a thrilling thought). If we impeach them both, we get Nancy Pelosi (Speaker, second in succession) and if Nancy turns it down, we get Daniel Inouye (Senate pres pro-tem, third in order of succession) and if none of these step up to the plate, we get HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (SecState ~ fourth in order of succession). Now what do you expect to accomplish by firing the manager (pres) and keeping the that lineup?

GovHater, do you EVER have anything BUT "Bush Bush Bush Bush"?

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that shelly was probably in the same place during the Bush administration that all but about 30% of the country was - disapproving completely of the expansion of government, wars and debt over which he presided. Do you get that?

70% of the country DISAPPROVED of Bush's performance as president by the waning days of his second term.

You alluded to the reality yourself in an earlier post, which is that many people voted for Obama because he wasn't McCain - who they anticipated was just going to be Bush 2.0. We voted for Obama and got Bush 2.0, only worse. And somehow, you can't quite wrap your mind around the voters remorse people are experiencing after having voted for change and getting more of the same, on steroids - overreaching government, bigger war in Afg AND even more massive increases in spending and debt.

Perhaps you should read something besides these blogs and the insides of your own eyelids.

Impeach him on what grounds? You don't like him? That's not how it works. I would GLADLY support an investigation into Obama's "misdeeds" if you would be willing to support a retroactive investigation into the crimes perpetrated by the previous administration. Fair enough?

Obama had that very opportunity when he became head teleprompter reader. HE decided to let the crimes of the past teleprompter reader go unpunished. HE stated that HE wanted to "look forward" and not backwards. In other words he could've at the very least prosecuted teleprompter reader Bush for WAR CRIMES. Nobel Peace Prize winning Obama has been passed the torch and continues to torture people at Guantanamo and at other "Black Ops" bases throughout the world. What a JOKE!!! Our military under Commander in Chief Obama continues to murder, rape, and plunder in the name of our National Security. How proud to be an AmeriKan now.

AnnieRich

...and all the millionaires posting here:

Tell us how much do you make a day, a month, or a year? Will you work for $1 a day as they do in China and India? Can you feed and clothe, get to and from work, school, pay your medical bills on $1 a day? Do you want to do that knowing that the bosses at the top of the company are raking in millions to your pennies on the backs of your labor?

Divide and conquer – that’s how politicians and their big business bosses are playing us; and the idiot class bites.

paulba -

Which crimes of the previous administration? Because there have been investigations, and there have been no charges filed. Here's one example:

http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/declassified/2010/01/29/justice-official-clears-bush-lawyers-in-torture-memo-probe.html

Your statement also applies to Bush: just because you disagreed with him and his policies - as did I in almost all cases except the tax cuts because I am happy to have less of the money I earn confiscated by the government to be wasted - does not make them impeachable offenses.

Obama's offenses thus far probably don't qualify him for impeachment, either.

It's likely, however, they will disqualify him for reelection.

Impeach Obama

for what? You can't impeach a President simply because you don't LIKE him.

It's Bushs economy until there is a real recovery then it will be Obamas.

Spoken like true Republick'ons, deny any wrongdoing or accountability, forget about the past, don't bring it up and just move on down the road.

Company I worked for for 38years had a 9% profit margin, for 2008.

The insurance farce would have cost them 8% of payroll and 5.24% tax increase and Epa had them on the hook for $42, 000 investment to meet their tightened requirements.

Now they are in San Jose Costa Rica.

Nahh, i don't think i'm gonna go with Bush did it.

Probably 6% to 7% of all the business in our country that travels have already made their plans, if we don't take out a lot of people from this administration they are gone too.

Last quarter of 2009 saw more than double the number of people, cede their citizenship and leave the US, than in all of 2008, taking large amounts of our captial investment money, with them. Will be interest ing to see what the numbers are for the 1st quarter of the year

, early indications are that the number will be higher yet.

Looks like no one wants to pay for your insurance.

Bringing up the past is a good thing because it can be used to fix the things that went wrong. Liberals (including our congress and president), see the past only as a way of blaming someone else when their policies are NOT working. Constantly looking backwards to the past is not a good thing because you will not be able to look forward and see what the consequences of your actions are. But that seems to be what our govt is doing.

Everyone in this country knows that the govt did incredibly STUPID things when Bush was president and most of the country didn't agree with him(especially in his scond term). Yet, Obama and friends are doing the SAME things and you lefties think it's OK? The only difference between the two if them is that Obama and friends are giving you a reach-around while they screw you.

middlewes - that's right. Obama is obviously no more a statesman than an economist. He wants to just flat out repeal all tax cuts for the "rich"? This is how incentives operate:

My dad is a doctor, and he and his partners are the only specialists for a hundred miles. (disclaimer: that means he is super-rich - my little sisters shop at American Eagle and my dad drives a 10-year-old Ford pickup). When the tax cuts expire for those making over $250,000, do you know what he and his partners are going to do? Pay nearly 50% of their income in taxes? No! They're going to cut back their office hours and surgery appointments until income is just under $250,000. If anyone didn't understand this, it means it will be REALLY BAD for SERVICES AND HEALTHCARE. Can't they think of a better solution?

Only26- I think it is awesome that your father and his partners would turn patients away if it hurt their profit margins. Great.

only26

I know a lady who works as a pre-school teacher – she is 58. She made $19,000 last year and paid $3,000 in taxes. She has no children and no health insurance. She does not get any assistance from anyone. No welfare, corporate or otherwise and no tax breaks (even if she did how much would that be $300?). She buys and pay the same or higher prices for her purchases as your loving daddy. How much did you say your daddy makes again?

I work for two lovely doctors who will be closing our office when the tax breaks are cut off. They cannot afford to keep the office open and pay that much in taxes.

My dad is a doctor, and he and his partners are the only specialists for a hundred miles. (disclaimer: that means he is super-rich - my little sisters shop at American Eagle and my dad drives a 10-year-old Ford pickup). When the tax cuts expire for those making over $250,000, do you know what he and his partners are going to do? Pay nearly 50% of their income in taxes? No! They're going to cut back their office hours and surgery appointments until income is just under $250,000. If anyone didn't understand this, it means it will be REALLY BAD for SERVICES AND HEALTHCARE. Can't they think of a better solution?

Man, I'm surprised your dad made it through medical school considering he doesn't even know how to do his taxes. My brother only graduated from high school and even HE knows how to navigate a 1040...

If your story is true, which I suspect it's not, tell your Dad to get a tax preparer so he can stop @!$%#ing them up!

Only26- I think it is awesome that your father and his partners would turn patients away if it hurt their profit margins. Great.

^this too, nevermind that taking on more patients and breaking the $250k threshold will ALWAYS increase his profit margin. The way taxes are calculated essentially means that a person making $250,005 will take home more than a person making $249,995. Taxes do not work in brackets, you pay the bracket % on income in that leverl.

Basically, if his dad makes $260,000, he will only pay the increased 39.6% on the $10k above $250k. Apparently both Only26 and his father do not comprehend that fact.

I work for two lovely doctors who will be closing our office when the tax breaks are cut off. They cannot afford to keep the office open and pay that much in taxes.

/palmface

your doctor friends must be morons if they'd willingly walk away from a job that must pay them $250k+/year (assuming they only let the taxcuts expire for the top 2%, which seems likely) when faced with a 5% tax increase.

These "I know a {dentist/doctor/lawyer} story, and he/she is walking away from the practice if {healthcare/cap-n-trade/bush-tax-cuts-end/any-Democrat-bill passes}," are full of @!$%# and are just mindlessly repeated. No serious person would make the decision the "true story" protagonist makes!! The story is just a RNC talking point madlib.

Jim: in all fairness, people can't spend what they don't have. Freddie and Fannie of course let people do that which was the catalyst to where we are with Obenemy enhancing for the socialistic order.

I'm disappointed. I though for sure the first conservative comment would be "cut taxes." That seems to be the cure-all for economic growth. I agree with you, however, that we should not spend money we do not have. But we do not live in a perfect world and the world we live in is structured to operate on credit ~ including our government. What kind of constriction do you envision if we slammed the door on spending money we do not actually receive in a cash revenue stream? We would fall almost immediately into depression and our unemployment would rise to well over 30%. We are addicted to credit ~ as a society and as a means of operating our government. We can end the addiction, if we are willing to pay the consequences which will immediately confront us ~ and overwhelm us!!!!

So, do you think the recession will be better when we have borrowed all of the money we can and the econoy implodes?

We do have to pay imterest, on that money.

Taxes collected last years were down 20%, we porbably will do much better, this year.

Huge numbers of people are simply buying gold, and storing it, no taxes till it's sold, they simply do not want to participate in Obama's pie in the sky prograns.

Roosevelt ran into the same problem, he had too pass laws making it illegal to own gold to get the money back into circulation. However Obama doesn't have the big advantage Roosevelt had, when all of the news media was covering for him.

Forunately we have at least on major news oulet that will report on the dems when they strt the shennanigans, and the internet.

Can't spend money they don't have, huh? No, we regular people can't spend money we don't have, but the Obama Administration and Congress think they can just print more to cover it.

If we "regular" people didn't rush as fast as we could to spend money we knew we didn't have, then the housing market wouldn't have imploded.

Blame is easy to lay at someone else's feet. If you think ANY polititian can fix what we have done to the economy collectively, I don't think you are looking at the whole picture. It seems like we are all sitting back, waiting for someone to fix things for us so we can carry on with business as usual. Get back to buying 50" plasma screens for the mobile home, etc.

Look to we the people before you look to the government for the problems or the solutions. They are no smarter than we are and certainly no better.

I guess you don't remember that Bush's last year the economy was in total free fall and it HIT ROCK BOTTOM. Wait, did Limbaugh brainwash you into thinking it happened during Obama's presidency? LOLOLOLOL!

zzzzzzz... snoozer

RUDY--------- It's a matched set, when you yell, "Bush did it" you have to say"you're a racist" too.

middlewes

Bush did it - you are a racist.

OMG........can you THINK at all????? Geeezze...............do you live in a cave somewhere????? Bush, Bush.............I am so sick and tired of you damn libs. The damn CONGRESS has been DEMOCRAT since 2006!

Open your eyes. Bush got us into two illegal wars, allowed the worst terrorist attack on US soil and tanked the economy. Even a child can see that.

Bush, Bush.............I am so sick and tired of you damn libs. The damn CONGRESS has been DEMOCRAT since 2006!

Yep ~ but it dealt with a Republican administration's budget through most of 2009. There is no escaping the fact that the economy tanked on Bush's watch. Yet there is no escaping the fact that Obama retained most of Bush's policies but expected different results. I think there is a clinical definition for such an approach ~ ~ ~ insanity. And I have a flash for those who think presidents run the country. They don't. Corporate moguls and banks call the shots now. Presidents are mere puppets on strings jerked by monied interests. The "people's" voice has been silenced for several years now and despite desperate efforts to regain it, will remain stifled if it serves the interests of the oligarchy. Historically, these are the seeds of revolution and we may yet see another one here.

What has Obama done to end those illegal wars.

Did you even notice he's escalated them?

Thepigking

Ohhhhh now the wars were illegal, and it's all Bush's fault we had hijackers take over passenger aircraft and fly them into buildings, because he aloud it to happen....It all makes sense now.

Yes my eyes are now open........(watching out for any dumb@##'s who suggest that any part of this is true!)

Actually if you do any research at all, you'll see that the economy went to hell after Obama was in office for 4 1/2 months.

Illegal wars???? I thought the congress voted on going to war. Even Hillary voted to go. Where is this illegal???

Wide AWAKE here! You said it..the Great Community destructor is hard at it. Never had a real job in his life, never was in the military, never ran a bank, never has done anything except somehow get a free ride through Harvard and on to the Presidency. His adgenda is clear..destroy America from with in. One thing I can say...he's doing a good job of that!

Anyone who is still stuck in the left/right, democrat/republican merry go round needs to get a clue. It's about "them" and "us". Them being the rich and powerful, and us being the "little people" as BP likes to call us. If you're stuck chasing tail arguing and bickering over who's fault it is and who did what then you play right into their plans. You're now sufficiently distracted and they're sneaking more BS into the next 2400 page unread monstrosity. Party politics is dead!!! They both play for the same team and it aint us!!!

Asuming that the democratically elected president of the United States did secretly intend to destroy this country from the inside out, once it was destroyed what gain would it provide him?

Not that I believe any one polititian is better than the next (and I know this post will end in a migrane), but what real job did George W. Bush hold? Which of those jobs put him through school? Also, his questionable military service aside, which bank did he run?

I don't believe that anyone in Washington can solve this problem any time soon, it all just boils down to who gets screwed first and longest. We are the only ones who can fix this country and have to own our own portion of the blame for this collapse... But when nitwits like JGruden post this nonsense long enough, I can't keep my fingers from the keyboard.

Blast AWAY!

Florida-2064461

What new taxes are you talking about – Obama gave the largest middle class tax cut in decades $285,000,000,000 (probably the biggest ever). The Bush tax cuts that are set to expire are one of the biggest corporate welfare ever $1,000,000,000,000 worth to be added to the deficit. How can you ‘little people’ (and unlike the big, rich people, I meant that in more ways than one) cry out against spending to prevent the economy from collapsing yet at the same time want to add $1,000,000,000,000 to the deficit. Crazy!

William,

Huh?

I just had to re-read my post to be certain it didn't contain some reference to what you have posted about.

Did you respond to the wrong person?

Enter migraine...

Florida-2064461

You posted under PHN post to which I was replying.

Florida-2064461

Ooops! I now see it - my apologies.

No worries, man. Thought I was losing it.

What new taxes? Are you referring to your local government taxes and property taxes courtesy of the $300,000.00 salary your local officials are being paid to do nothing? Blame that on your lack of involvement in your state and community not on the Obama administration. It's always easier to blame someone else and not take responsibility. When you buy that IBM stock be aware of the fact that they will ship most of your money to India so they can pay their CEO $30,000,000.00 a year! Be aware that when you eat at Burger King Goldman Sachs pays migrant illegal workers in central Florida to grow food Burger King at a rate of about $10.00 a day so you can get heart disease cheaply. Be aware that they take those profits and manipulate the energy market by purchasing futures covertly in Dubai so you can pay $5.00 a gallon for gasoline. Yes, isn't all this deregulation GREAT! The only problem with the whole thing is that corporations were created for only one purpose and that was to raise large amounts of money to engage in projects otherwise impossible. Today all these supposed free market advocates push so they can be individual entities with all the individual benefits and rights except they can't be incarcerated for their crimes but only fined. Hey can I have the right to kill people and be fined for it? Can I steal and cheat and destroy America and then pay a tiny portion of my profit as a fine instead of going to jail? Of course not. So all individuals and corporations are now equal but corporations are much more equal. So outline all these new taxes Obama has put in place with figures and H.R or S.R. numbers so we can all share this and be just as informed as you are. I the meantime maybe you should go visit your local government officials!

I agree to an extent but you can't perform in retrospect.

What the hell are you talking about????????????????????????

Hicks is right. There is not much Obama or anybody can do. The best they could do is do nothing and get the government out of the economy. Today's problems are not about what we are doing now, but what we have already done for the last 70 years. We have expanded credit to unsustainable levels. Now it is deflating. And we want to get sober with more debt. It won't work. It will make things worse after a brief calm.

Banks have been lending to the wrong borrower for decades. Since 1980s loans to the businesses have contracted, and loans to the consumer has expanded. Business loans are used to create value. They contribute more to the real economy. The likely hood that they will be paid back is higher. But consumer loans do not provide value. Consumers consume. They do not produce. Today, banks are 98% invested in consumer loans. The collateral for consumer loans depreciate in time. They do not create value. This is the cause of bank troubles today. 50 years ago banks would be invested in pristine US government bonds. If that was the case now, a housing market crash would not effect the banks much. Alas, it is too late.

Now, Obama is telling the banks to lend, after the damage has already happened. Banks are not in a position to lend! It is hard for the FED to turn the boat around because banks see this as what it is: A deflationary crash! Deflation is the threat now:

http://www.kondratieffwavecycle.com/economy/market-myths-exposed-inflation-is-not-a-threat-deflation-is/

1. FED makes credit available

2. Banks do not want to lend because they don't think they will get their money back.

3. Borrowers do not want to borrow because they don't think they can pay it back.

FED or Obama do not control the market. They cannot force people to borrow or lend. Eventually, free market forces will prevail. Action against the truth will dig our hole deeper.

http://www.kondratieffwavecycle.com/economy/the-federal-reserve-does-not-control-the-market/

So, what is the problem? Let them not lend, not borrow, no? NO. Because when we borrow, banks create money out of thin air and this money inflates the money supply. Without borrowing, deflation happens:

http://www.kondratieffwavecycle.com/economy/deflationary-crash/

When we pay down debt it is deflationary but it is a necessary evil. Perpetual borrowing won't work because creditors will stop lending when the US looses it's credit rating.

Past governments did not want a recession on their watch, thus with the help of FED they expanded credit non-stop. After we ran out of prime borrowers, they went through sub-prime. Now to make people borrow, FED rate is at 0%, on top of mortgage interest deduction from income, they paid buyers money, 8K home buyer credit - just so that they might borrow to buy a home!

All of these efforts will actually make the debt problem worse! They are not the solution, they are the problem! Obama is doing more of the same that brought us the crash.

Those countries laughed Obenemy out of this last Summit and more or less told him to get lost. They're cutting and what's really interesting is that Greece has been told to "privatize" their healthcare and the UK's healthcare is in the toilet. So what does the US do?? Suure....pass healthcare. Yupper....our pres (although he's not mine) is brilliant.