self dillusion is a sad thing. We almost were taken over by corporations - due to deregulation of essential services - like banking. Fannie and Freddie were NOT the problem - never were - never will be - they were just the symptoms - deregulation, derivatives - loss of industry - outsourcing of all aspects of American business.. that is the problem.. not lending to a (very) few "poor" people.

What would you rather they do, nothing so it happens all over again?

Yes, Fannie/Freddie was the catalyst for some of this but it was happening all over. If there was some sort of regulation and oversite in the first place, we wouldn't have run into this.

You are right, Fannie and Freddie were major reasons for our current mess. Loose government controls of existing regulations was the other major problem (Thanks Barney and Chris), followed by greedy banks and investment firms that took advantage of the lack of government oversight.

If these regulations (including all the diversity efforts) were in place 10 years ago we'd still have had an economic collapse. Banks are already heavily regulated. Problem is the regulators aren't doing their jobs.

This is nothing but another Sarbanes-Oxley; the non-cure for Enron. Today business pays billions and billions to accounting firms to meet these regulations. These rules provide no demonstrated benefit except to lawyers and accountants.

Freddy and Fanny are just clearing houses, if you put crap in, you get crap out. Clean out the crap and you clean out Freddy and Fanny. Hopefully this legislation will be an effective laxative!

I guess I'm on the fence.. more regulations seems rather wasteful to me. I've worked in banking/finance/mortgage for 26yrs and thought I saw it all.. but when gov't backed loans were allowed to people with back end debt ratios in the high 50's.. things were going to crack.

I think we as a people need to learn NOT everyone can afford a house, home ownership is not a right it is a responsibility... you can not expect the gov't to allow whatever you want because you want it.

Just another case of take from those who have and give it to the "you owe me's" If this were indeed a way to make things better it might be okay. However we all know that obama's only plan is to do as much damage to the United States as he can and be damned to what the people want. His methods and morals are corrupt but there will be a day when he has to answer for what he has done!

Rick-Post #1 - You are dead on! My sentiments exactly. Just more of the big government Democrat crap that wants to penalize those who work to grab the American Dream and reward those who do not. Blame their misfortunes on those who exceed in life. The Democratic party is clearly the party of Socialists. They are all about taking from the successful and giving to those less successful and they are about having lifelong political careers where they can leech off of the taxpayers and vote in laws that guarantee them elitists status and exempt them from the very laws they vote in for We The People. The Democrats are too stupid to realize that success breeds success. People have jobs because others are successful and can give others jobs - it's not rocket science! The problem is that Socialists (Democrats and Obama at the top of the heap) can't figure that out because they are brainwashed into believing that capitalism is wrong! They think that big government is the answer. Incidentally, that belief is anti-constitutional as the U.S. Constitution calls for less government. Screw these bastards! I think the time has come for We The People to have revolution in this country.

Diogenes

You lose all credibility with statements like

However we all know that obama's only plan is to do as much damage to the United States as he can and be damned to what the people want.

You're not that naive. You know what you're saying is nonsense, You may disagree with him, but to make an assertion like that is just to inflame passions, not to have an intelligent conversation or a useful dialogue.

But then nobody who takes any of this seriously will consider what you say anyway. It is a symptom of the refusal of the right to be reasonable. Unfortunately, the big lie over and over again gets to be believed, especially by the gullible and the democrats will probably lose some seats to the brainless rhetoric of the present day republicans.

I think the time has come for We The People to have revolution in this country.

You cant have a revolution in a deomocratic country and still have a democracy. If one party takes power by force from the elected party, That creates a 1 party country. The definition of this is a facist state (not my opinion, but fact). That makes you, Steelman, a facist and an enemy to the american people.

When are people going to wake up? The government is, piece by piece, taking over all the areas that will rob us of our freedom. A little regulation here, a little regulation there... after a while it amounts to a whole lot of regulation supplanted bit by bit where the regular Joe on the street doesn't notice it.

WAKE UP AMERICA!!! Our government is out of control!!! We need to vote these jacklegs out of office as fast as we can. We need fiscally conservative people running the show! We need a reduction in regulation not an increase.

Make the government do what they are supposed to do - PROTECT THE BORDERS AND PROVIDE FOR OUR NATIONAL SECURITY. They need to stop mucking with private sector businesses and giving government hand outs to their lobbiests and friends.

appalachian - Who said anything about party? See this is the trouble. When a person says we need a revolution, many people think it's one party taking over the other party. This country was founded on revolution. What we need is a revolution that gets rid of all the trash politicians in Washington. Get rid of those life long politicians that sit there drinking the fat and not providing for the real needs of this country - national security and border protection. All these social programs, hand outs, regulations and unnecessary bull crap need to come to an end! We need real working people in Washington, not the trash that's in there now.

Ferrosynthesis - People are frustrated with Obama. He hasn't left the campaign trail since he took office. It's the only thing he knows how to do. He has no real life experience in dealing with national issues. Don't believe me? Take a look at his past. Take a look at who he associated with prior to his political life. Take a look at his accomplishments. The only thing he knows how to do is speak into a microphone. A trained Disc Jockey can do that too. He makes bad decisions and everything he does, he does to increase government control. That's a burden on the taxpayer, a threat to our freedoms and it simply makes anyone on the conservative side of the aisle want to beat their head against the wall. It's not a left versus a right thing.. it's a right versus a wrong thing.

It frustrates the hell out of me to watch our national debt head straight to Mars. It's already past the moon. My children and grandchildren will be paying for it well after Obama is a wax statue in Disneyworld.

Looks like we are finally waking up. To the realities of what happens when banks are deregulated and allowed to regulate themselves. Why is anyone screaming to maintain the status quo? Have they been asleep for the past 4 years of recession?

Brianb,

You are so correct, the Progessive Liberals are making already bad problems worse! Socialism doesn't work, not for freedom and till we have a fiscally conservative administration. Nothing will change and the American people will continue getting the reach around by their elected officals voted to serve them. Time to clean house people- both of them in November... The only "hope and change" this country needs is this Government to stop spending the peoples money!!!

They should have regulated the regulators like Frank, Dodd, Geithner and all the others.. These were political people looking to better their own situations and turning their heads so not to do what they were suppose too! instead of watching out for their constituants. So now everyone thinks we need more political regulators, it looks to me like that would only prop it back up for another fall.. If the original regulations would have been enforced we wouldn't be in this situation. Just like all other Gov regulation, immigration, oil, banking etc., have failed. Gov is not the answer, Citizens are the answer!!!

Clotho,

If the Fed would not have garranteed the mortgage back securities being written. We would never have had this problem and we have the Liberals to thank!!! Not eight years of G.B. policies like Obama says along with many other lies from his teleprompter.

The banks wrote loans it knew people couldn't afford... because it made money for the bank whether the home buyer paid or not... so we got tons "liar loans", where mortgage brokers realtor's and banks failed to verify buyer income or increased income to help the buyer receive the loan. Now why would a banks do this? Because they sold those "liar loans" loans to companies like Fanny and Freddie, who paid the Banks full value... so there weren't any rise to the banks. They got paid up front. It's the Tax payer that got stuck with the Bill.

So stop blaming the people that couldn't afford those loans... the banks knew that and made the loans anyway.... its called PREDATORY LENDING!!!!!!

With Obama sinking in public opinion polls that measure confidence in his economic leadership, the president was sure to hail Senate passage of the legislation

Great, another 2300 pages of bulls--t that nobodys read or can understand written to boost Obamas poll numbers! If it can't be written in 50 pages or less there are too many loopholes built in to serve the biggest contributors to the political hacks re-election war-chests. The taxpayers give the banks billions to prop them up but the banks won't loan it out to even those with excellent credit. Instead of gambling on small businesses with good credit histories the Banks would rather gamble on Wall Street which creates nothing. This 2300 page turd isn't going to change that! But, now Obama and the Dem hacks will be able to say they did something. They won't be able to explain the consequences of or even what they hoped to accomplish but they tried and defeated the evil Republicans. BS. It's all smoke and mirrors buried in incomprehensible legalese.

Funny that you have no realization that what got us into this mess was 8 years of Republican administrations and "deregulation".

appalachian - Who said anything about party?

Brianb- Um, Steelman the poster I was quoting and responding to said many things about party. So why would you ask me that when the answer was obvious? Since his entire rant was about democrats, and nothing bad to say about republicans, I think its safe to assume he is bucking for a Republican facist state when he says we need a revolution. You kind of ignore this fact in order to use my post as a segway to post your own views on revolution, but it doesn't work considering he mentioned partys many times.

Folks:

Wave a fond farewell to the American Dream as it was once known, that ship has sailed, and will never return again. It was based on unsustainability, which is a foundation of quick sand. It is over....take a pill....tell your kids the truth....grow up....get used to rapid changes....get out of debt, pronto....don't try and do anything exactly like your mom and dad did, that was a different time and it will eat you whole....stay clear of pack mentality....wipe your eyes, blow your nose, pull your socks up, man up and get with the program.

This is the brave new world....this is the new frontier....embrace it or be trampled.

Good Luck!

Freddie and Fannie started the downfall with Frank and Dodd using it as their own personal piggy bank, covering house loans that the banks were being REQUIRED by Congress to write to people who could never pay back because, in the words of Barney Frank, "Every American has a right to be able to afford a house."

However, in all the 2300 pages of this overhaul, Fannie and Freddie are NOT addressed.

In addition, the American public will discover in time all the pork and restrictive requirements incorporated into this bill. Things like quotas for business, where all businesses (privately owned businesses included) are required to hire and meet the quotas of minorities and women.

This bill is first and foremost another takeover of another segment of the American economy.

A wolf in sheep's clothing.

This is how freedom dies, all in the name of the goverment doing "what's best for us".

God help us all

All this started way before Reagan Bush Sr. Clinton Big BAby bush and Obama

Hell even Carter had some of this problem put at his feet. He did a crappy job. We all no that. But what did any of the rest of the group do to change anything. Seems like the only revolution we are seeing is the spiral down the toilet.

For far to long our Nation has lived on credit and helped every other country on the planet. We all thought the country was TO BIG TO FAIL. Granted Each pres did some stuff to try and bandage the wound. But the jobs money Technology well it has all bleed out

America died when pelozi and her fellow loons took over and it will never come back. Get used too it and learn to speak spanish and if your real good Big Brother might give you a treat, that is if you fit the profile.

Whomever is against regulating Wallstreet after what happened the last 2 years are from another planet. This is not based on opinion or Party. If it was a republican President I would be for it and believe me a Republican president would of had to do the same thing. It just makes sense. Ask the millions of people who lost their 401k's and savings due to the greed on Wallstreet that caused this disaster. This recession impacted the WORLD economy and almost in a split second brought our economy to a standstill. And no matter how you feel this is not the 1980's,, we are in a interconnected world ecnomy so there has to be safegaurds put into place. Use common sense and get into the present. Obama is doing a spectacular job:)

So the alternative is to allow the same system that produced the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression continue to operate. Why is it that Repugs can't offer anything better than Herbert Hoover's ideas on dealing with the economy?

Signed...Benard Madoff

Clotho

Why is anyone screaming to maintain the status quo?

So, if you're against a bill that puts billions in fees on consumers to pay for the next big bailout rather than just pass a bill that PREVENTS the situation from occuring again, we're "screaming to maintain the status quo"? You obviously haven't read the bill nor even non partisan reviews/highlights of it.

This bill not only maintains the status quo, it provides funds to pay for it in the form of taxpayer "fees" in the order of BILLIONS of dollars that will be passed along to consumers to bail out only to the major stockholders, not the public. Litigation between citizens and the banks are also banned in this bill so the next time we have an Enron collapse, the citizens are banned from suing but the major stockholders get a nice fat check from the Fed that we paid into.

You know that part in the article where it mentioned an organization for protecting investors? You should read that section. It's for minorities and women only. It's "racist" and "sexist" as you liberals like to call it. It's also a repeat of the same mistake made during the Clinton years when it was claimed that denied mortgages against any non white person was racist and they were pushed to accept million dollar mortgages from people who worked at McDonalds out of fear of being sued because it wasn't a white guy getting denied. This bill is history repeating itself with an added dash of "oh yeah, we get to decide who gets bailed out, who gets split up, and who pays for all of the bad decisions". Let the bad management fail. Nature abhores a vacuum. Someone who has better business sense will take their place.

I wonder how many of the Democrats read the bill. Probably the same number that read the "health reform" bill - Zero.

How many will be surprised by what's in it? All of them.

The blind leading the blind.

Message to the three blind men - Obama, Reid and Pelosi (I know, she's a woman, but she has more balls than Obama) - "It's an elephant", as you will finally see in November.

More Chris, Barney, Nancy, Fannie and Freddie BS. Republicans needs to stop the talking points and actually think about stopping the next recession.

Fannie and Freddie started the downfall? I do not support Fannie and Freddie continuing. They purchase mortgages from Wall Street giants like Goldman Sachs. They got burned along with the rest of us on bundled mortgage derivatives. When Fannie and Freddie got bailed out, that money went to pay off corporations like Goldman Sachs. So Wall Street actually got two bail outs.

There are two main points to make about banking reform: Wall Street giants need to be divided up and derivatives need aggressive regulation. Separating savings-banks from investment corporations is needed. That was the core regulation in the Glass Steagall Act that was repealed by the Republican majority congress fixated on deregulation in 1999. We now have less than a dozen Wall Street giants controlling most of the lending and investment in this country. Our economy depends way too much on them. If investment corporations are separate from banks, they would lose FDIC support and the eligibility for future bail outs.

Bundled loans and mortgages / derivatives was the primary type of greedy predator speculation that collapsed our economy. We need to very aggressively regulated derivatives or the one and the same white collar criminals will bring us back into a major recession. All of the main elements of that flim flam game need to be eliminated, started with the rating agencies lying their butts off because they are owned by Wall Street.

As an independent, if Republicans want my vote in the future they are going to have to protect the American people from Wall Street, not protect Wall Street and PREDATORY capitalism from real regulation.

@Allen-968499

Nice way to distort the facts. The banks fees may be passed on to the consumer.... and yes some of those consumers are tax payers.

But calling these tax payer fees is kinda of a stretch. If you don't like the fees imposed by your Bank....GET ANOTHER BANK

I already know how to speak Spanish. LOL and your right the so called good old days will never come back. Like br8ybnch said its not the 80's. But if I remember right the 80's sucked just as bad. But yep we have been sucked into the global economy.

Again, the consumer is going to pay for this not the banking industry, not wallstreet. Corporate america will just go through the bill and figure new ways around it. They are the true experts of loopholes and I'm sure Dodd and Frank have plenty in the bill to satisfy. Anything these guys get their nasty sticky little fingers into is sure to be at the expense of the consumer and not the banks and wallstreet.

Right Rick. Because what we have has worked SO well.

Obama has definitely done damage to this Country---a major part of US citizens now agree he is a Socialist and we're seeing a Socialist Agenda going through like a "Slip and Slide"..

The Banks, Wall Street Reform. The article is right, when they say more jobs will be sent overseas, thus more and more unemployment.

What are Americans going to do to support their families.

Where is the Free Market and Democracy in this country as of 2010.

This President and the Majority of the Congress are completely out of touch with Finances, Business, and not having 1 clue as to how to keep America's Constitution as it was written by our forefathers. It has all been rewritten by these pre non electable Majority and President in 2012.

How in the name of America, can all the Government owned major properties, and laws be undone by the Conservatives.

All his/Congress's impulsive decisions in 2012 have to be REVOKED; along with the stupid Health Care Bill. What damage can be done in less than 2 years!

There is no more Freedom of Choice.

The voters and the ones who didn't vote for this Administration have been "had' by a bunch of Chicago Thugs, and their wimpy followers.

This "reform" will do nothing but benefit those that are supposedly targeted by it.

Derivatives won't be curbed until 2022? The dollar won't last that long.

It's funny how the right-wingers are throwing around the lastest catchphrase du jour "Fannie and Freddie" just like they used to throw around "Acorn" or "birth certificate."

I wouldn't presume to understand how the intricate details of our immense economy work, nor should any of you. But let's simplify it a bit: Alot of people in the financial sector took irresponisble risks that tanked our entire economy. Is it really so unacceptible to you that we, the people, acting through our elected representatives, implement a few rules and safeguards to prevent a similar catastrophy from happening again?

Oh... other right-wing talking points i find funny:

"Chicago thugs" - how exactly does a chicago thug differ from, say, a NYC thug, or a Boston thug?

"Socialist" - said as if it's bad - so I guess you're opposed to social security checks for seniors, or publicly-funded police and fire depts, you know, like those heroes from 9/11.

"Clinton" - thet's right, the right wing is still blaming Clinton, even though he has been out of office for a decade. Just like President Bush spent 8 years of his failed administration blaming Clinton.

H ow comes Freddie& Fannie aren't mentioned? How under this bill can Unions get a seat on a busineee's board. It's a form od Dictator sip and we need to get rid of tie Dictator.

It was the "NON DOC" loans that contributed to the housing crises...Now people trying to purchase a home will have to produce proof "as they should" that they will be able to afford their mortgage(chk stubs,bank statements etc)...."Lenders face new restrictions on the type of mortgages they write and could not be rewarded for steering borrowers to higher cost loans. Borrowers also will have to provide evidence that they can repay their loans, thus halting the no-document loans that had flooded the markets"

Yet another in a growing list of disastrous governance by the progressive liberal democrats. Bail-outs, Health Care Takeover, Ridiculous rules of engagement foisted on or bravest and best, Unconscionable response to the oil spill, Ignoring boarder security while prosecuting a state that has taken mattersinto their own hands, and still the possibility of a Cap and Tax bill. Its all junk, even worse than that, its killing our country. Repeal it all! Start over, with baby steps, not these unreadable, uncomprehendable, epistles of doom.

Hey, turn on the light. Maybe it will help you see!

According to the CBO (Congressional Budget Office) W's two tax breaks (afforded to essentially the Rich and not paid for) accounted for as early as 2005 an additional five hundred and ninety billion dollars added to the deficit (and in just one year). These tax breaks now account for over 45% of our overall deficit in addition to W finishing Daddy's war without raising taxes (never before in American history has a war not been paid for by raising taxes). The Great Recession is truly a product of his administration and to say otherwise or to put the onerous on Obama is well... idiotic.

We know deregulation backfired. We know doing nothing is not an option. As usual, Republicans are fear-mongering with unproven claims.

Look it up--the greatest deficit spending occurred during Republican administrations. The Something for Nothing Crowd are pro tax cuts (at least anyway for those making more than $250,000 and Big Business like Wall Street, insurance and pharmacy companies, oil companies, etc.), and pro deficit spending on defense to police the world on behalf of our wealthy allies.

The greatest threat to democracy is our shrinking middle class and Republicans don't care. Putting Republicans back in power is crazy talk.

It just amazes me how many people are out there who want to "suck on the government teat." It's time to grow a pair and claim some accountability. Washington is like an unruly teenager who's told to do one thing, then turns around and does the other regardless.

Sorry for all the cliche's, but it couldn't be helped.

Like someone said, "When the people can vote themselves a raise, it's over." Something like that. Well, the ones sucking the government teat keep voting themselves raises!

This bill is a joke. It was written by wall street.

The real problem was derivatives and glass steagal.

Glass Steagal was ripped out of this bill and derivatives won't be enforced for 10-12 years.

What a joke.

Fannie and Freddie were not government entities before the @!$%# hit the fan, they were private and had to be bailed out by the feds for their reckless behavior.

What is the deal with saying this is going to cost us money? Are you nuts? The entire meltdown was because the regulations were relaxed for the past 30 years and the lines blurred between banks, investment houses, insurance and all greedy at our expense. This is the same as the Oil spill - let's let the foxes guard their own hens until all hell breaks loose and then ask for government help. No - put the rules back in place like they were before Reagan. Every other civilized society is run like this, not like the Wild West where anything goes.

Wall Street is Wall Street and someone will just come up with the next idea to get past the system. They always do as no one is more inventive then Wall Street Lawyers and top brokers. That's why they call it Capitalism.

So much leftist fail in this thread:

1) Fannie and Freddie are the only two entities for which taxpayers have any responsibility. Any other institution is bailed out at our leaders' decision and under their terms.
2) Fannie and Freddie are and always have been Government-Sponsored Entities (GSEs), not private entitites as some poorly-informed liberal claimed.
3) "

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.
Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage." - Alexander Tytler

4) Tank, you are also poorly informed. Bush's tax cuts increased tax revenues to record highs the following two years and ~5% UE for the next 4 years. Nobody's "deficit spending" compares to Obama's.
5) "TruePatriot" - you're calling the Rs the "something for nothing crowd"? Which group is it that wants working people to pay for their healthcare insurance and extend the UE benefits past 99 friggin weeks?

Both the Republicans and Democrats got us into this mess. They saw deregulation as a good way to make money to satisfy their interests and supporters.

When I was working for Commerce Bank Card Center in Kansas City, MO. during the 80s, employees had the opportunity to take classes in order to transfer to a different department. Everyone had to take a class called "The Fundamentals of Banking", the text created by the bank. In the history chapter it was stated that the Great Depression was partially caused by deregulation of banking and investments, and went on to explain how this happened. (We were never taught this in history class in high school or college.) Another example of a crises caused by deregulation is the savings and loan collapse, and now we have our current crises which is fully caused by deregulation. Deregulation opens the door for corruption. I don't know if the book is still in print, but it was an eye-opener for me.

Did I take advantage of the deregulation? You be I did! My house is built with 5% unsecured loans from other banks. It will be paid off in three years.

On a side note folks, ignore the flaming trolls or trolls a flamin'. They only want to get you off subject or "inflame" the discussion to lack civility. If you don't know what I'm writing about, google the subject or look it up on Wikipedia.

Where was the verification process of the folks buying liar loans? Sounds like somebody did not do their job. Regulate that?

No one is complaining about Clinton, especially the Conservatives.

What do past Presidents have to do with the current Administration?. The person who accepts the Presidency knows full well it it their complete responsibility to take charge, and forget the past.

It is always the Extreme Liberals that blame everything on everyone, except themselves who go along with the rag tag gang; followers who do not understand Capitalism, making this country great. Why do people from other countries beg to come the the United States of America?

A Democracy, written in the United States Constitution, is not being followed. Our Administration throws these Reforms and Bills out as if they are 1 page The Wall Street one was 2500 pages to read; (notebooks?), no one in Congress really understanding what they are voting for. The Majority of Dems are intimidated by Obama. They will pay the price come 2010---how come they don't know they will be without a very prestigious career in November?.

Do they sincerely care what happens to this country? Obviously not, because they want to score points with our President. "Out of touch with real America" O isn't always right on what he is doing. Not much of what has transpired in the last 2 years has even been put into place yet, or transpired. The Stimulus Packages are still waiting to be distributed, so businesses can re employ people.

It will be interesting to see how Wall Street reacts to this new Reform tomorrow, and the days ahead. Bigger Government means bigger trouble and less freedoms in our lives..

Just think of Venezuela, and Cuba. Is this what you guys want? Being told what to do, with no choice?

Will Wall Street ever be the same for entrepeneurs, and investing people who trust in business success? The "life" of America has been taken out. Seems there will be less employment again.

All these Reforms voted for in the long run will have long term, will have negative effects on this country. Generations will be making less than today, and our family generations will never know the Freedom we knew before 9/11; then a President who made promises, then swung the other way on his own volition shocking most Americans with non workable ideas..

Transparency. Hope and Change. Yup, the Government sure got what they wanted.

If this financial reform bill is properly enforced by the Federal Government it will end "TOO BIG TO FAIL" among Wall Street and Big Banks by creating a safe way to liquidate failed financial firms; imposing tough new capital and leverage requirements that make it undesirable to get too big; updating the Fed’s authority to allow system-wide support but no longer prop up individual firms; and establishing rigorous standards and supervision to protect the economy and American consumers, investors and businesses. Wall Street and Big Banks deserved to be regulated by the Federal Government after giving their CEO's huge bonuses using tax payer bailout money. :-) :-) :-)

Gordyiniowa, if your business is of the scale that it can take down the entire US economy because of a "slump", you are probably one of 1000 businesses IN THE WORLD.

The government isn't going to break up your little main street shop because you're in the red. They ARE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT YOU SCREWING UP THE ENTIRE GLOBAL ECONOMY.

Christ.

It's funny how every tea partier seems to think that the government is worried about some small town shop or factory that either sells or makes widgets and probably nets only a few million a year (and much less the many many many many many more businesses that exist that never seen a cool mil in profits any year). This is for businesses on the nearly global, "tradable on the stock market", many multi BILLION DOLLAR A YEAR industries.

The Goverment isn't sending you to death camps, they aren't getting rid of social security or medicare and forcing grandma to live on the streets or eat cat food from a can, or die of pneumonia. They aren't out to "steal" from you in the form of taxes (unless you're the 1% of the population that's got 50% of the wealth and isn't sharing with everyone else, and trust me, you AREN'T that 1% and are NEVER GOING TO BE).

They're TRYING to tell banks that they have to act in your best interest, and if anything, it's the banks that are going to try and give you the run around and find loopholes in the law to screw you over.

They aren't "STEALING" from BP when it comes to forcing them to pay for the clean up and reimbursement to those who suffer for it. If they didn't do it this way, people would be bitching because the government bailed out yet ANOTHER industry, or, if they didn't force BP to clean it up, I'm sure it would still be leaking today, as, after all, what does BP honestly care about the gulf? They aren't in the fishing or tourism industries. It's not the first time an energy company has just left the mess for someone else to handle.

Every day this sort of logic just makes me want to throw my hands up and pray to the lord for judgement day, when the seriously mentally deranged idiots in this country will finally find their deliverance and leave me and my desire for a societally minded government alone.

jhenric 2009 said, "Wall Street underestimates the risk, privatizes the profits, and socializes the costs. I say we socialize the profits!"

---------------------------------

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

Here's is an article from the World Socialist Website with another point of view about how "stiff" the Bill is and how it was made:

Obama’s toothless bank “reform” to become law

By Barry Grey
16 July 2010

The US Senate on Thursday passed the administration’s financial regulatory overhaul, paving the way for Obama to sign the measure into law next week. The House of Representatives had passed the bill on June 30.

The vote on the bill was 60 to 39, with Republicans Scott Brown (Massachusetts), Susan Collins (Maine) and Olympia Snowe (Maine) joining 57 Democrats in voting “yes.” Senator Russ Feingold of Wisconsin was the only Democrat to vote against the bill, on the grounds that it was insufficiently tough.

The final bill, the product of intensive lobbying by the banking industry, is even weaker than the version approved by a House-Senate conference committee on June 25. In order to obtain the three Republican votes necessary to block a Republican filibuster and bring the bill to the floor for a vote, the administration and the Democratic congressional leadership agreed to drop a $19 billion levy on big banks and hedge funds to pay for the implementation of the bill, and to further water down restrictions on the ability of commercial banks to invest in hedge funds and private equity funds....

....The Wall Street Journal on Wednesday cited a law firm’s estimate that the new bill mandates at least 243 new federal rule-makings. The US Chamber of Commerce puts the number at 533.

In practice, this means that any provisions that threaten to hamper the profit-making activities of the banks can, and in all likelihood will be watered down to the point of irrelevance in the rule-making process. As the Journal pointed out, the massive lobbying carried out thus far by the banks will only grow more intense in the rule-making phase that follows formal enactment of the bill into law.

The process of drafting the bill has exemplified the corruption and bribery that pervade the US political system, and the domination of Congress, the White House and both political parties by the financial elite. The banks have spent hundreds of millions of dollars to lobby congressmen and senators, and spent millions more to bribe them in the form of campaign donations. Much of the 2,300-page bill was directly or indirectly dictated by Wall Street lawyers and lobbyists in closed-door meetings with Democratic officials.

The measure is being referred to as the Dodd-Frank bill, after its main congressional sponsors—Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd (Democrat from Connecticut) and House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (Democrat from Massachusetts). These two long-time legislators are among the biggest beneficiaries of the largess of the financial industry.

Dodd’s single biggest campaign contributor has been Citigroup. The securities and investment industry has been his biggest source of funds, over $6 million during his Senate career.

Frank’s top contributor has been the American Bankers Association, followed by JPMorgan Chase.

The New York Times on Thursday published an article that provides a sense of how pervasive and shameless the process of bribery and vote selling has been. It reports that the Office of Congressional Ethics is investigating eight congressmen—five Republicans and three Democrats—who raised a combined $405,000 from the financial sector in the six weeks leading up to the December 11, 2009 vote in the House of Representatives on the House’s version of the bank regulation bill...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/jul2010/bank-j16.shtml

Yea all the white people seem to think Obama is a socialist.... and all the black and hispanics think the white people are racist... lol

Our "Great" Replublican Party here in Arizona not only just passed a bill to raise our Sales taxes across the state by 1%, but also raised our local taxes by 7.81%. So you tell me who's "screwing" who. With so many people unemployed in Arizona due to the housing boon and subsequent crash which was undercontrol of a Replublican dominated government for over 8 years. Looks like you're pointing fingers without looking into the facts yourself. Weigh the media lightly and seek the truth. Neither political party is based on honesty or integrity - it's up to the people to keep our government honest and to act on our behalf - hence the term "govern." I can honestly say that I haven't experienced much "governing" in my life time, but more "domination and corruption."

Absolutely, we need to get these liberal, progressive morons out of the Repulican party.

Myself- Democratic Congress ruled for two of those years and the Republicans in Arizona aren't doing anything to you compared to what Congress (dems) and Senate (dems) and that man whose ruining the White House are going to do to us!

I want to see the democrat reaction next year at this time when their taxes all go up and their paychecks are less. It's going to happen starting in Jan 2011. The Bush tax cuts expire at the end of December. Obama isn't extending the cuts.

I don't understand why democrats want to give so much of their hard earned money to the government. Can some democrat explain to me why the government should get my money and not take it from some welfare recipient on the street? Why is redistrubution of wealth so important to democrats? Don't you realize that's as close to socialism as you can get... loss of freedom and an inch away from a dictatorship? It makes no sense to me at all why people want government to control their lives.

Myself-2012737

Our "Great" Replublican Party here in Arizona not only just passed a bill to raise our Sales taxes across the state by 1%, but also raised our local taxes by 7.81%. So you tell me who's "screwing" who. With so many people unemployed in Arizona due to the housing boon and subsequent crash which was undercontrol of a Replublican dominated government for over 8 years. Looks like you're pointing fingers without looking into the facts yourself.

Arizona has more illegal immigrants than any other state. You want to blame unemployment in that state on Bush? He was shot down by the Dem controlled House and Senate when he tried to address the issue. The "housing boon and failure" was predicted by the conservative media for several years before it happened. Watch 'The Warning' if you don't believe me.

The tax increases will be needed if the liberal lawsuit succeeds in making sure you guys can't deport the illegals for fear of being "racist" and they all move there to get free health care and tax evading jobs.

Allen no Arizona does not have more illegals than any other state. The City called L.A.has more than the entire state of Arizona check population numbers. Nice attempt at trying to twist the numbers though.

AZ = 6,595,778 total people with 86.5% whites

L. A. the city = 3,849,378 with 40.9% foriegn born and 46.9 percent white

Now take the state population for Cali 36,961,664 I think we have them beat.

P.S. Census Bureau numbers for Hispanics in Cali 36.6% of 37 million = 13,542,000 approximate Hispanics that's the legal ones registered with the census. Who knows how many undocumented Hispanics there are here.

Birdman, for some reason you fail to mention those corrupt Democrats who line their pockets with union money (still is organized crime).

Brainb - wait, so are you saying you're in favor of a higher national debt? I thought the republicans wanted to reduce the debt? If you keep handing out tax breaks to everyone, then tax revenue goes down. Simple math. If revenue sinks lower than payments then we increase the dabt. Macro 101.

So this is where you start calling for spending cuts, right? Where? Our biggest obligations (financially speaking) are to social security, medicare, and interest on the debt. If we don't pay social security and medicare we'll have seniors dying by the droves in abject poverty. A humanitarian crisis not to mention politically untennable.

If we don't pay the interest on the debt, then our credit rating will fail and no one will lend invest in the US anymore. Bad for jobs, bad for exports, bad for all (but good for walmart maybe).

The only part of the budget that can be cut is discretionary spending, that's why it's called that. So should we cut from the roughly 5% that's spent on helping the poor and needy (as the right wing suggests)? Or should we cut from the one governmental department that spends more money than every other department combined? - Defense!

We spend more than the rest of the world combined on defense. We don't need it. We are without a doubt the most powerful militarized nation in the history of the world. There are no nations, no armies or navies, that could last even 15 minutes against us. And the terrorist threat can not be countered with huge cold-war-style armies and navies and intercontinental missles and laser shields, etc.

Instead of spending 2/3 of our discretionary spending on dfense, let's cut it down to just half, maybe 40% at the lowest. We would still have the most powerful military in the world, and we could find every necessary support program with no sweat.

Myself,

How on earth can you live in Az and not see what it's financial problem is? I'm in Ca, it's pretty damn obvious here!

Interesting how the anti-union people forget that the economy was great in the 1950s, when union membership hit its peak!! Unions are not immune from corruption, but the majority of them are there to protect hard working middle class citizens.

Sadly, our country, the United States of America, has become ungovernable because of a malignant cancerous tumor on the body politic. Conservatives have been attempting to destroy the Constitution (our most brilliant creation) since it was created, most notably during the Confederate rebellion of the 1860's (the "Conservative Revolution" as they called it). I find it appalling that the descendants of the treasonous conservatives who fired upon the United States flag (and killed over 300,000 defenders of the Union) are now the ones most likely to wrap themselves in it and denounce their opponents as traitors! Conservatives have always been the biggest threat to the Constitution. Let's stop deluding ourselves - we are facing a domestic enemy of the Constitution that will stop at nothing until they obtain power - even if they have to destroy the Republic in the process. They openly boast that they will starve the federal government until it can be "drowned in a bathtub." That's not treasonous? Osama bin-Laden and all the other Jihadi vermin would love to be there!!! The only difference between the Republican Party and al-Qaeda is that the Republicans don't speak Arabic and they don't resort to physical violence (yet).

Please conservatives...think about this. It was the conservatives in congress that weakened this bill. FACTS. So if your arguing it is not enough, blame your republican reps in the senate and congress. If you say this reform makes it easier to "rape" the system then that is just a lie. This is better than what we had before. People need to quit playing politics with everything and just use some common sense and a little bit of understanding that our world is a bit more complex now and we have to be "MATURE" enough to find common ground. THIS WAS NEEDED and just like DODD said it could of been better but this is what would PASS. (Thanks republicans)

My behind! Had to jam it's azz through, more like it, before they can't get jack through after November.

Cal - adjust your tin-foil hat, then seek professional help. If you want to talk about abusing the constitution, look no further than a mandate to buy insurance or be fined, just for existing.

br8y - Dodd and Frank have been crooks for a very long time, taking sweetheart deals and campaign contributions from housing and banking industry lobbyists, then protecting them from the oversight Bush and congressional Rs called for. Unlike the healthcare debates, there are C-SPAN recordings of these hearings.

Do yourself a favor and look up who took the most from Fannie and Freddie (Dodd, Frank, Clinton, Obama) and how they covered for their buddy Franklin Raines while he cooked the books and gave himself huge bonuses. How about Frank not knowing about his boyfriend running a gay escort service out of his house? No problem for you there?

By the way, Br8y, this is what would pass means they didn't get to keep their $50B slush fund to liquidate "too big to fail" companies. Now they have to borrow it from the fed instead of having it at the ready. The Ds NEVER wanted Fannie and Freddie involved in the bill.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/08/shelby-fannie-mae-freddie-mac-financial-reform_n_569113.html

Agreed T. Since '84 when I started working the gov't has tried to control "greedy" corporations like mortgage to no avail... Perhaps if the gov't would stop taxes us for non essentials we could afford the fees large banks impose afterall fee income produces jobs and pays salaries.

Write to the chairman of the Republican Party, tell him, you won't contribute a penny if any money is used to relect Brown, Snow or Collins.

Those three have played footsies with the parasites, one time too many, time to get rid of the RINOS and dem lites.

"Great more regulations, government jobs to implement and I bet no enforcement like all the rules that were already in place. What a joke!"

Yes, we need to fire all of the non regulating regulators. However...

Would you prefer Wall Street regulate itself?

Wall Street needs to get ripped a new orifice for the housing bubble bursting and the recession. Unfortunately, this bill may be watered down so far and/or not enforced so much as to be meaningless.

The top 25 hedge hog fund managers in 2009 earned an average of ONE BILLION DOLLARS EACH (NY Times article). There was follow up news coverage showing the luxury mansions of these hedge hog managers. One guy had a huge mansion complete with his own ice rink, and Zamboni, plus - of course - a luxury Zamboni garage. Each one looked like they had enough wealth to feed Haiti for the next year?

The white collar criminals that caused the recession have not even come close to feeling it. They should be in prison.

Great more regulations, government jobs to implement and I bet no enforcement like all the rules that were already in place.

That would be the honest to god truth. Just like the healthcare spending bill, who are all these millions that can't get medical treatment? Anyone can step in to a hospital and get treatment if they need it. If not an emergency, they go to the County hospital paid for by our tax dollars. I guess people don't understand what medi-caid, medi-cal, healthy start, etc.... programs are? Get educated. It's free healthcare for you and yours if you don't pay for a policy yourself. It's a hand out. Available to all!

Yes, by all means those darn Republicans should remain the lock-in-step Borg or they should be thrown out! After all, what we seek is a one-party state, you know, like the Soviet Union.

Far-right wing nuts -- Feel free to move to a fascist dictatorship of your choice. For the rest of us, may compromise in our democratic Republic (in which representatives represent their constituents) prevail.

Far-left moonbats feel free to move to the social democracy of your choice instead of ruining what's left of the world's greatest republic. There are many to choose from, but hurry because they are all wising up to the fact that socialism STILL doesn't work.

See, you lost it when you said "in which representatives represent their constituents". I think you meant to say where representatives "withstand the entrenched forces of the status quo" didn't you? I think Obama is actually with the majority of voters on this banking thing, but is there anything else he has done that a majority wants?

Deep, I would SOOOOO take you up on that, if I wasn't so damned poor due to the low wages in the US. Like so many third world countries, do you think the populace stays because they like drinking poisoned water and having their government bought out to the highest bidder? Or is it that there's few opportunities to escape? Or perhaps there's a few there trying to make a change, so that people can be healthy, express their opinions, and engage in healthy debate?

I think it's Norway that's gunning for nationalized internet service, (they already have health care and the likes), and Finland's trying to be completely off of fossil fuels within my lifetime (again, they kinda have most things we argue about covered).

Even our neighbors to the north, Canada, they were sitting rather pretty when the recession hit other countries....

I know an Aussie or two, and they think we're absolutely crazy, and I was discussing minimum wage with them one day and they were like, "yeah, I'm kinda poor, but at least we have livable wages".

Capitalism be damned! all the money funnels to those that already have too much capital.

Otter

you should probably pose that question to the Great Constitutional Scholar - Glen Beck!

Johnsot70,

You're kidding right?

Why be confused or wonder?

A copy of the The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution can be had from the Cato Institute. Many people have ordered them to hand out, particularly for our youngsters to read who have less chance of learning about them.

Cato is on 1000 Massachusetts Ave., NW, Washington, D.C. 20001.

The USBN number is 1-930865-40-6

Johnsot70

We know you hate the Constitution and everything it stands for, but most of the American People believe in it and Would Die To Protect IT,I damn Sure Would.

Johnsot70 need only understand that it was the STUPID people who elected this Kenyan. And yes, the Constitution DOES grant people the right to be stupid. It also grants the right to people for the OPPORTUNITY to be educated. Pray that last right gets used, by the stupid people.

Johnso doesent know, the reason he resorts to name calling...

He prob beleives seperation of church and state is in the constitution.....

Why is there no mention of the MBE WBE HUB hiring requirements slipped into the bill at the last minute?

willyTfats,

The Constitution does neither of those things. Perhaps you could actually read the Constitution.

1st amendment gives people freedom of speech. Say something stupid, and people can laugh (as I just did). The implied rights in the 1st amendment, allow anybody the right of freedom of expression. One must know what to express, and in order to enjoy much expression, one must have an education in the subjects one wishes to express. Of course, if you'd like people to be less educated, less free, less expressive.......well hang around. It's coming. Of course I'll challenge any one of you "educated" people, to tell me one law or regulation, which has made you more "free".

I'll wait.

The real question is, does the Constitution grant Congress this power?

For the last year I've been waiting on the Dems in Congress and Senate to do something at a federal level that is their friggin job rather than just tell states what laws they have to pass. This time they did, but it's more of an issue of do they have the MORAL right to tax us to pay billions of $$ to those that they deem to be "too big to fail". These are the same people who can't keep a business in the black even with an entire country being required to purchase their services whether they want it or not. The People have deemed the government itself "too stupid to balance a checkbook" for decades.

"People who elected the Kenyan"? Good grief.

The last Kenyan Birth Certificate was slam dunked as a forgery. Now the Globe tabloid newspaper has a new forgery to boost sales. The state of Hawaii stated their birth certificate was legitimate and Obama is a citizen. End of debate as far as the law is concerned.

Oh good grief. How did you get out of high school.

Allen not trying to pick on you but what makes you think we are being required to purchase their services whether they want it or not. That's what you were saying about the to big to fail Bankers wall street fat cats right.

None of us has to buy anything they put out. Cash is king and Gold is better.

Get over it Joey. You know, the insurance requirement written into the heathcare spending bill. We will have to purchase a goverment plan if we don't have any other. I don't know how many employers you think are going to be able to offer private insurances after the government take over, but I'm thinking very few!

The constitution is only one part of our governing system. The founding fathers put many checks and balances in place for a reason. Moderation in all things--have any of you heard of this? There can be no pure free market anymore than pure communism because of human nature (greed). Our nation is a hybrid of ideas, thank goodness!

AP:

How did I get out of High School? Reading with some level of comprehension. Try it some time. It also helped with my Masters Degree.

So, have you graduated high school yet? Asking for advice?

The legislation, among other things:

* Gives the government new powers to break up teetering companies whose failure would threaten the economy.
* Creates a new agency to guard consumers in their financial transactions.

And that's bad because...

Or better yet - just let them fail and take 1/3 of Americans 401K's with them due to irresponsible operations. Or how about we just let banks continue with OTC derivatives and credit default swaps. Why not... it only caused a recession - borderline depression.

Mike,

It won't be the businesses that take the 401k's AND IRA's......it'll be Congress. It will also be the straw that breaks the American people's back.

Dig deep in this bill, folks.....the health care travesty has a 3.6% "transaction fee" on real estate transactions....

Like Nancy Pelooser said, "You have to pass the bill, to see what's in it".

Fools.

'cause......having worked for the Gov,

Scant reviews of business true status for the determination of braking up said company...

New Agency..The GROSS incompentcy of the Gov ( inspection of BP oil rig) with little oversight within/between departments ...and will"guard" - (give me a break) this is a total waste of HUGE money.

Hey because of "spend it or lose it" in the Gov, in Dec, we actually bought a $5,300 stool ( chair) we were outdone by a group down the hall who bought one for over $7K.

We plan to beat them next year

The collapse of the subprime mortgage market that led to the FinancialCrisis of 2007-present was due to the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933. Instead of more government control and regulation, more government bureaucracies, and more taxdollars being spent, REINSTATE GLASS-STEAGALL!

Two other key needed elements in need of reform: the Moral Hazard of the bailouts, and the ongoing policy of “Too Big To Fail.”

There is a ton of regulatory bodies and Committees overseen by the Congress, etc. (Note: the Democrats have ruled this body's output for many years!).

For instance, there is the Federal Treasury; there are several Congressional Committtees on all aspects of Finance as set up by Presidents (Banking, Military, Agriculture, Foreign, and so-forth). There are even Financial Trading regulatory agencies, such as the U.S. Securities and Exhange Commission (SEC), and so-on and so-forth. These have been in place for many, many years and various "Committees" are added to on a regular basis -- it is the way our politicians "Make Work" for themselves, unfortunately.

If you have ever sat on a Committee hearing or been involved in their research end of the subject, you'd know that the Committee work is done by inexperienced and, often, new people to the "Hill." Very few elected people actually know their subject and the effect it has on the public. When a law is passed in Congress it is, unfortunately indeed, that they are rarely laws instituted for the good of "People", but for the "record" of some politician -- even the President!

Please take time to learn about your government. So much of these comments are based on emotion rather than facts. The unfortunate thing is emotion or hearsay do not solve problems.

This was a law to instill limits, not so much on the "buggaboo", Capitalism, but to increase the ability of extreme Socialism to take legal root in our country.

"REINSTATE GLASS-STEAGALL!"

Yep, and most of Glass-Steagall is in this bill. Agreed we need it back.

SPO---------- Taqke any money you have out of the market, baks wherever you have it.

Buy gold, bury it in your back yard, no taxes on it till it's sold.let the dems continue on with thetir attempsts to implode the economy.

If we wll go into gold, it should be over in about 6 month then the repsonsible people will be able to restatr the economy, after Obama's constituency gets through rioting.

Interesting, isn't it? Republicans back in 1933 voted against the Glass-Steagall Bill. In 1999, the Republican majority congress repealed it. Republicans passed the commodities legislation that was the loophole that white collar criminals exploited for derivatives speculation. The people fighting to obstruct this bill and then water it down as far as possible, being paid by lobbyists every step of the way, were Republicans.

Why would I want to vote for Republicans short of CHANGE. I would be voting all of the Republican economic dogmas back into office, the same dogmas that created this recession.

Jerry--THE SKY IS FALLING!! The SKY IS FALLING!!! Get out of your mother's basement and learn how the real world works, would ya? You're scary.

Why is it that the right-wing trusts Big Business more than government? We have seen time and again the abuses of business, most recently the collapsed mine and the BP oil spill. What in the history of the United States makes you conservatives so scared of our own government in comparison to Big Business?

My only concern with government was when Bush/Cheney started with the Patriot Act, warrant-less wiretaps, corruption of the Dept of Justice, etc. And where was the outcry from the right-wing then? Please back up you Chicken Little "the sky is falling" hyperbole with evidence, facts, data--please.

MountainMike - who was president back in '99, or is congress to blame when something goes wrong, cuz you know Ds controlled congress from 1/2007 to now, since things started going to crap. Somehow, I bet you find a way to blame Bush for it, though.

DeeP

Clinton was signing bills he disagreed with, just like Bush 2006 to 2008.

Clinton did not advocate deregulation, nor did he write the legislation for the derivatives or Enron loophole. That was the Republican Senate Banking Committee chairman Phil Gramm, who is listed on all of the "most responsible" for the recession lists within the first five or ten people. He is ranked number two on the Time magazine article "The 25 People Most Responsible for the Financial Crisis."

DeeP-2007029
MountainMike - who was president back in '99, or is congress to blame when something goes wrong,

Clinton was sent the G&S repeal bill with a veto proof majority (90-4 or something like that). Was Bush ever issued a veto proof bill?

And if you are so myopic that you think the 08 collapse was caused by a dem takeover in 07 - you need to seriously stop watching Glen Beck.

Beck is all you had to say

True Patriot - It is scary when Big Government is in bed with Big Business. This benefits those few on both sides of the political realm. Is it really that much different now that Democrats are in charge? We sent 30,000 more troops into Afghanistan and rapidly expanded the Bush-era bombing raids on Pakistan. Gitmo is still open. The Patriot Act was reauthorized. Once again crank the Dollar presses to inflate the money supply in the name of the "poor" this time instead of "business".

The left-right political paradigm in this country is a sham. Both parties have proven to be Big Business, Big Government warmongers. Our failed foreign policies have not changed, our monetary policies have not changed. There are Globalists in both parties running away with our money and our freedoms. Regardless of party affiliation, we need to vote for candidates who will not abandon their oath to uphold the Constitution.

Bill, you will get more smal to medium business, the real backbone of America.

Wow, the socialist presidents I know and read about wouldn't allow his people to be freedom of speech. The system we live in was created by greedy men. sounds like your are happy with that.

The guy next door bought a house and car for nothing down - failed to make payment. He is the greedy a-hole along with the vote-buying greedy dimocrats and the welfare parasites.

You just don't get it. It is obvious you don't see the big picture. That guy was able to do that because of the banks wanted him to be able to purchase that house with no money and they knew he couldn't afford it and guest what, they place bets against that man failing to pay his loans. "Hmmm heard of "credit swaps"?

Bill,

You prefer big business to piss on us instead? The Gov't, is at least the devil we know.

Unless you've been living in a cave these past years, we all see what happens when you let big banks and big business go about their merry way un-regulated (or at least, regulations that were not enforced). They act like unsupervised kids, not caring or worrying about the effect their actions have on the entire country...and us specifically.

This finanial collaspe was a result of NOT enforcing regulations and allowing these banks and big businesses to take unpresedented risk with our money, and then want us to give them more, while at the same telling the average Joe he can't have a loan or help of any kind.

If this is what you advocate then you are a wall streeter yourself, or should we just blame President Obama...again.

RTSP94

Give Your All Mighty Praise Be Obama enough time and he will take freedom of speech away from everyone.

Obama is the Greatest Threat We As A Nation Have Ever Faced In the History Of This Great Country!!! EVER

Roland Tibbs - It is obvious you do not care about this country or history or reading. This conversation isn't about the president, it's about the American establishment and GREED. The only thing your comments are doing is taking up hard drive space on whatever server that is hosting this website.

P.S.

I can also tell you have never served a day for this country if you beleive he is the greatest threat this country has faced. I have faced the greatest threat to this country and have seen what he and it is capable of. You need to logoff your computer and do some reading.

Half;

It was the mandate by the Gov for banks to make loans/mortgages to hi risk individuals, this has already been well laid out in other discussions - these bad loans were seeded into positive loan packages, and on and on..but the bell rung and there was nothing. It was individuals not corps. I'm not going into this anymore, a lot can be found via a search

RTSP94

You are wrong and know nothing i have served this THE GREATEST COUNTRY ON GODS GREEN EARTH. And I would Gladly give my life to protect her.

U.S.M.C.

79'-84'

Hmmm, so I know nothing and you know more about serving this country because you served between 79'-84' and i served 91' - present day. Wow that makes a lot of sense now. you did 5 years and I am a lifer.

U.S. Army

I dont agree with you But i do Thank You for your Service and I do Mean That from my heart again thank you.

Both you guys fought the enemy (thank you) on foreign soil....

The enemy is now within. Keep your oath.

Thank You as well Roland. My comments and opinions are not political, if you look at the history of this country, there has been a shift were, innovation and prosperity for the GOOD of the country has been replace with GREED. Yes, politician has a role in this because they wrote and pass the laws that allow this to happen. A lot of these laws were passed before I was born and when I was of a young age. People have to understand that this has been going on way before any one particular president or congress. That is what I am trying say.

George Wallace once said that the 2 black students being admitted to the University of Alabama was the biggest threat this country has ever known. Ronald Reagan said that Medicare was the biggest threat this country has ever known. We now have rednecks, racist and trailer trash saying that Obama is the biggest threat this country has ever known. Some of you people are funny !

This Southern Boy feels it was the trailer trash that elected Obama, because the welfare checks keep coming. The racists are in the NAALCP, and they also helped elect the racist-in-chief. It appears they are starting to push the "advancement" part of their name, using any law possible, such as standing outside polling places.....

This Southern Boy feels it was the trailer trash that elected Obama

Im a southerner too, and its stupid bubbas like you that give us all a bad name. You can't even hide your racism when you try, and think calling someone else a racist may distact people from it. People like you should leave the serious discussions to the grown ups.

At least you didn't argue about the rednecks and racists. And being a southern boy, it's understandable that you think Obama should be out picking cotton. My father was born in Kentucky and grew up there. If he was alive today, he would be in a state of shock. Fortunately, he moved to a more civilized part of the country before having kids.

For the NAACP to use the word "racist" is, and excuse the pun, the pot calling the kettle, black. The first lady tells them to "step up" their aggresive behavior, and that just seems to be fine. If George Wallace called for white people (and yea, he did) to step up, he was called everything in the book. I suppose it's racist, to call a racist organization, racist.

No, I don't think Obie should be pickin' cotton. Not sure he's got the work ethic. But I'm damn sure he uses his "blackness" to say everybody who doesn't agree with his wants and desires is a racsist. He has trained his appointees well, as they carry his water. His little acorns, may grow up to be mighty oaks, but I favor pulling the weeds, before they ruin the whole garden. And you can read whatever you'd like into that statement. Every tree surgeon knows, that if you allow a parasite, to exist long enough, it kills the host. Lotta' moss growing on this Country.

They have fouled their own nest. A year ago had some one called me racist, I would have been horrified and angry.

My response now? So? Wolf, wolf, wolf.

Socialism? No one is advocating nationalization of private industry. In fact, the bail outs (TARP first passed by Bush/Republicans via a blank check) was the opposite, in which public money was transferred to the private sector. In other words, profits are privatized and debt is socialized on behalf of Big Business. Supposedly the loans were paid back with profit to the tax payers. If so, what kind of system is this?

Also, medicare is a fee-for-service program in which a premium and out-of-pocket expenses are paid by those who use the program, and health care is provided by the private sector. Likewise Social Security is referred to as an entitlement program because people pay into the system in order to benefit from it. Unemployment insurance also requires premiums in order to collect. Without these systems in place, the tax payer would be stuck with all the expense.

Come on people, think it through.

Hmmm, so I know nothing and you know more about serving this country because you served between 79'-84' and i served 91' - present day. Wow that makes a lot of sense now. you did 5 years and I am a lifer.

That makes you some sort of freak to make such a comparison after bashing him on the assumption he's never served.

TruePatriot,

TARP was not passed by Bush/Republicans. TARP was passed by a DEMOCRAT Congress. President Elect OBAMA went on Television imploring Bush to sign it into law because "this was too important to wait until Obama was sworn in". It HAD to be signed into law immediately.

In my opinion Bush was stupid to sign it. Doing that only created the opportunity for the Dems and their blind followers to claim that it was passed by Bush/Republicans.

Bush should have waited, since this was a DEMOCRAT passed bill, till Obama took over so he could put his name on it.

Bush did the first bail out of Wall Street only, and there were no strings attached to the money. Remember all of those bonuses to executives immediately after the bail outs? I do. No one was twisting Bush's arm. Why is it Republicans spin everything around like pretzels just so they can maintain the smug assumption that Republicans can do no wrong and the Democrats can do not right.

Here is an example of what I have been talking about. Goldman Sachs has been misleading customers to make investments that GS is actually betting against. THAT'S UNETHICAL. They were a large part of collapsing the housing market bursting and the derivatives white collar crimes that caused the current recession. They essentially did the same thing to Greece to collapse their economy. They were even involved in speculation on basic foods such as wheat, corn and rice. This made relief of world hunger more difficult. They were a large part of Fannie and Freddie going under after the dumped mortgage bundles on them that hid toxic loans.

Goldman Sachs needs more than reform. It needs to be an example to others. It needs to get divided up and ripped a new orifice.

Today's Wall Street operates like a casino where the house always wins.

I want to know something? How many of you REALLY LISTEN to GLEN BECK,or do you just listen to ED, OLBERMANN, and MATTHEWS, who never have anything good to say about anyone BUT LIBERALS. WAKE UP.
I heard Chris Dodd say that he doesn't know if this BILL will HELP or WORK until the NEXT CRISES comes up. It was another 2000 pages that no one READ, just like the HEALTH BILL.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMAZING

Now that you mention it! I watched him on TV with a couple of NAACP members, It was more than nauseating, They were preaching the bible and beck looked like he had marbles spinning in that empty cavity between his ears. beck is full of garbage! His only interest in this world is the greenback. what a capitalist! he isnt qualified to flip burgers at Gino's.

Well that is just one person's opinion. What would you rather say to your constituents, "We at least tried to fix the financial crisis" or "We didn't do anything to fix the problem and just left everything the same" ya know it worked so well before, lets keep it the same.

Right - keeping the banks who caused an economic crisis in check while limiting shadey lending techniques will certainly be the demise of the democrats. There's a reason you people are in the minority.

Ike: Under the current circumstances, I would prefer that Congress does nothing than the pretense of doing something that will actually harm the economy even more. This is just another lame excuse for the federal government to control every aspect of our lives. Vote NO in November!

Waterdog:

Can you see into the future? Do you know with certainty it isn't going to work? Or are you just against it becuase it was written by Democrats.

So you would rather do nothing, than try to fix the problem. If you would get a cut and are bleeding badly, would you rather do nothing or try to stop the blood. you would stop the bleeding. The right needs to stop just saying no to everything and actually try to help with the problem.

Great idea - let the banks continue with reckless operations so we can potentially bail them out again. Fantastic logic.

The "logic" dictates that "we the people" take away the knives from the children in DC, and maybe we won't have to stop the bleeding.

Their should have been NO BAILOUTS if you screw your company up to freaking bad, there will be someone who would come in and fill the void where your company has failed that is the American way and the free market way of doing business.There should be No Such Thing As to Big to FAIl.

We are in recovery now thanks to the Democrats. Do the homework and look up the number of jobs lost and/or created during Bush/Cheney versus Obama to date. Jobs created under Bush was less than the growth in population--pitiful!

And we know now that trickle-down is voodoo economics. Tax cuts for the wealthy and Big Business does not create jobs. Tax cuts only create deficits. Add to that a defense budget that is larger than all other spending combined, and larger than all our allies combined, plus neocon wars of attrition--A trillion in Iraq alone. Then add to that deregulation and lax oversight, and the Great Recession occurred.

The only solution Republicans offer is more of the same disastrous (and self-serving) approach. They drove the car into the ditch, and now they want us to give the them the keys again. No way!

The stinkin article speculates failure. Read it!

"TruePatriot" your assertion is completely false.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/revenue20growth.jpg

http://www.miseryindex.us/URbymonth.asp

The data shows Bush tax cuts lead to decreasing UE until it hovered around 5% and *INCREASED* tax revenues to record levels in 2005.

Now research why there was lax oversight of banking. Its right there on C-SPAN recordings, if you can find it from all the healthcare debate recordings crowding the site.

And if you call this a recovery...

DeeP-2007029
The data shows Bush tax cuts lead to decreasing UE until it hovered around 5% and *INCREASED* tax revenues to record levels in 2005.

Bush's tax cuts lead to augmented deficits and was contrary to the congressional budget office. The early and mid 2000's was a sham - everyone and their mother was doing fine on paper but what was actually going was clearly not the case.

Edit: LOL! Your sources are some professors blog and unemployment numbers up from what Clinton had done. Nice supporting information.

40% dollar value and 60% percent inflation under bush.

DeeP:

Tax cuts to the rich stimulating the economy. It does not work. Here are the stats.

Trickle-Down Economics: Four Reasons Why It Just Doesn't Work

http://www.faireconomy.org/research/TrickleDown.html

A recent study showed that the top 25 hedge fund managers in America made and average of ONE BILLION DOLLARS each for the year. A follow up news story showed all of the luxury mansions they owned. In short, there is no trickle down, just the old school hog snout in the trough attitude. Most of these people were the white collar criminals that caused the recession.

"It's time to try responsible regulation and see if that works."

Adam: But if you can't even pretend to know what's in the bill, how can you support it? This makes absolutely no sense to me.

waterdog, I said I supported responsible regulation, it does make sense if you think about it. Just because i was honest about not knowing exactly what's in the bill doesn't mean that what I said was senseless. If you were as honest you would also admit that you are against the bill without knowing exactly what's in it, right?

You are partly correct. Some regulation was in place, but not enough to stop the back room deals, after hours deals, and outright risky speculation that brought about the collapse and crises.

KEN---------- Neith will this bill? You iknow why?

Because the people in the business world are smarter than anyone in governmen.

The governmment is always behind the curve, for that reason.

There is a lot of talk about CEO's not being worth the money, bs, the companies don't pay them that much because they want to, they pay what they have to to get the top people, who are all smarter than any one in government.

Yeah... yeah and the boogey man is in the closet.

So tired of hearing President Obama needs to go. This was happening way before he took office. Yada, Yada, Yada.

Its all relative, we have been way short on effective regulation for too long and we have been too short on regulatory enforcement for even longer. The results are obvious to the American people. Wanna explore a mine in Virginia , or how about going for a swim in the Gulf? Tried to borrow money lately, or how about getting an accounting for the billions sent to Iraq?

President Obama is one of the brightest and most dedicated Presidents we have had since John Kennedy. He won't go anywhere if I have any say in the matter.

EH- 1773193 - YOU are the one who needs to wake up, man.

This is why we hold free elections. The people decide who to elect.

Remember though, in politics, perception equals reality. Do your own research.

OBAMA is an inept liar, who has lived off of charisma and rhetoric, unfortunatel;y for the US, he is now in a postion where he has to produce results and he is dead in the water.

Jerry,

And he just passed the first broad financial reform since 1930, after passing the first ever healthcare reform, after turning around the deepest recession since 1930 , after getting our strategy in iraq and afganistan back on track, after getting elected the first black president in the US,

Yeah, the man must be an idiot, a charismatic liar, and a loser, right? Who are you really talking about?

This is a Democracy, nit-wit. We have something called ELECTIONS. Whether you like the result or not, doesn't mean the fall of civilization as we know it.

No this is not the first broad financial reform since 1930! Please consult a professional before you post such drivel. And the recession is definitely not turned around. Can we say double dip.

Yeah, you are right, the corporations are going to stop wanting to make money and go out of business. So, we pissed Wal-Mart off and they are going to pack their bags and leave because of regulation. No, Wal-Mart = dooms day :-)

Business is leaving the US in a steady stream, if a substanciaal number of dems are not removed during the nexy election, that stream will get larger.

There are many companies that have already made their plans and picked their spots.

The last quarter of 2009 saw more than double the number of people cede their citizenship and leave the US, than in all of 2008, taking large amounts pf out investment capital, with them.

You will see an attempt to pass a VAT right after the election, it won''t be called a VAT, of course, it will be called a national sales tax probably, if a lot of dems aren't removed, probably around 10%, then there will be a mass exit of business.

I agree

You probably will be broke by then - the country will certainly be.

I know exactly how you feel! I am not only thankful I won't live much longer, I am also already suffering from the terrible economic situation brought on by some recent changes.. such as medicare. Recently, I stood at the pharmacy counter and refused to pay of my pocket for a perscription because it was not covered by my Medicare, Medicaid and/or supplimental county health plans. Then, two weeks ago, I had to do the same thing again. Guess what ? Had no money left to pay for those RX's due to extreme increases in cost of living in recent years...Remember, the old social security recipients who were already paid below the poverty line got NO pay increase last year. At tax time last year, it was brought to my attention that I didn't have to file taxes unless I had recieved something like $25,000 (more actually) in additional income last year. My quetion is: Is the USA going to begin to slide its old people into induced comas so they will die and now longer be a burden to the govt.? That sounds strangely like something going on at this time in another country! Hummm?...and those around us wonder why old people don't care.. How about "because we would rather LIVE than "EXIST"(ha) as we are now. How could we do that with such lack of care provided to us after so many years of our service and loyalty to the country. And, that is the LEAST of the country's problems in relationship to the world financial crisis, BP & it's puppets, and a President who is doing just what our ennemies want! God save us!

Please expand on your well thought out post as to how this will result in the democrats (but not the repubs) getting your money...

Take a look at the so-called Stimulus.gov, then find out which counties or districts elected Obama, then see where the money went, then see what UNION businesses got the money, then see how the campaign coffers of democrats got bigger. As always...follow the money.

mike-416 the dems are pushing now to take the 401k's and roll them into social security and to fund the health care program this is only the start any changes to the finacial structure is not for the little guy to make money and any money he makes the dems want for more programs.

Actually all they are looking to do is eliminate the tax break on 401K's and force that money into SS. Not the same thing you said.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/microsites/100226-annual-report-middle-class.pdf

On page 27 there is this gem.

"Promoting the availability of guaranteed lifetime income products, which transform at least a portion of retirees’ savings into guaranteed future income, reducing the risks that retirees will outlive their savings or that their living standards will be eroded by investment losses or inflation."

Guaranteed Lifetime Income Products = Social Security and Civil Servant Union Pensions

Transform at least a portion of retirees' savings into guaranteed future income = taking money from your 401K and putting it into Social Security.

Reducing the risks that retirees will outlive their savings or that their living standards will be eroded by investment losses or inflation = We are doing this for your own good! It can also mean - Social Security is going to collapse and we need your money to prop it up!

In this entire document, there is no mention of tax breaks on 401K's.

Not only that....there is this.

Making it easier for small businesses to help their employees save by automatically enrolling their workers in a 401(k) or a “SIMPLE” individual retirement account plan.

How nice, they will AUTOMATICALLY enroll all employees in a 401K just so they can then confiscate a portion of that money to keep SS afloat.

Wow, that took 5 minutes to find.

And what, vote in the party that did a great job with Hurricane Katrina closed the border the 8 years they were in power. Where do I sign...... wait a second......

You want limited government but cry that they arent doing their job to protect you from everything under the sun?

There's a reason you're in the minority.

How about taking the 16, 000 IRS agents he just hired and station them across the border, that would be enough to station one about every 1/8 of a mile.But hey we didn't tneed the trillion that insurance farce will cost.

We don't know yet how many people will be in the unit formed to monitor this piece of garbage.

We will have to wait until we throw Obama out, before we can repeal that

Ike - Katrina was the state's responsibility. The feds are NOT ALLOWED to come in until asked, so save it. Bush sent more troops to the border than ever before, so again, save it.

Mike - reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. What they are saying is they can't even do the jobs they have now and are actually supposed to do. Shoot, keeping illegals out is actually consitutional, so of course Obama will refuse to do it until he gets his amnesty reach around so latinos will vote for him even though letting them stay means people that followed the rules to come here legally get screwed.

DeeP-2007029
Mike - reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. What they are saying is they can't even do the jobs they have now and are actually supposed to do. Shoot, keeping illegals out is actually consitutional, so of course Obama will refuse to do it until he gets his amnesty reach around so latinos will vote for him even though letting them stay means people that followed the rules to come here legally get screwed.

And critical thinking isnt yours...They cant do their jobs because whiney libertarians like you want government cut to the bone but still want all of the services you enjoy right now. You want everything for a nickel. Guess what? We dont live in the 50's - everything isnt a nickel.

How are you going to keep "them illegals" out without a central government and the financing it needs to enforce such a law?

I think you seriously need to rethink your stances.

It took the Dems 4 years to put us in this mess. Obama is now institutionalizing it to make it permanent.

This might be the most honest post I've read in a long time (seriously).

Thank you for raising the level of discourse. The only thing I would add, is that it would be completely impossible for every legislator to read every part of every proposed bill. It's never been done. It's only recently that this has been used as a reason to mock the House and Senate (by both parties).

The way it works is, committees are assigned to research and draft bills. They then send copies to everyone else, along with summaries for everyone to read. Additionally, each legislator has a team of aides that pore over the bills and writes up their own summaries.

I remember when the Patriot Act passed, the Democrats did the same thing, saying that nobody read it. Yes it's true, and everyone didn't read all 2,400 pages of this bill either. It would be impossible.

Other than that nitpick, thanks again for an honest, thoughtful post.

How short Americans' memories are. It was just at the end of 2008 when the bottom fell out of the economy. We nearly sunk into a depression. We had deregulated to the point of inviting the free-for-all that came to be.

Doing nothing -- continuing the practices that got us there -- would be suicide, and indeed, we'd be in a depression as bad if not worse than the one in the 1930's.

So now, we have 2400 pages of actual regulation, that hopefully will reign in some of the practices that got us into this mess to begin with. No, I haven't read it, but I've paid attention to the discussions around it, and continue to educate myself as to what's going on here. I know I'm not a Ph.D. economist, but do I care enough to keep trying to understand various points of the legislation, how it's going to impact us.

What continues to amaze is the overly simplistic attitude that because Obama/the Dems did this -- it must be bad. Where's those memories, folks? You want to go back to 2008, you want to continue to have banks failing, 100's of thousands of jobs lost each month? You want to delve into a deep depression?

And some of you -- you're worried that this is going to make things harder for the banks? Hello? We need to regulate some of the more shadowy practices they've engaged in. Look at what they've been doing to small businesses and individuals! The rhetoric is frightening.

No, what we now have is 2,300 more pages of regulations to add to the thousands of pages of existing regulations that were already applicable to the financial industry, including commercial banks, investment banks, securities firms, and insurance companies. Thousands of pages of existing regulations that, had those charged with oversight of the financial industry, including overseers in both the public and private sectors, done their jobs enforcing, the 2008 financial meltdown may not have been averted but it's very probable the adverse impacts would have been greatly mitigated. One doesn't need a Ph.D. in economics to know bad mortgage loans when one sees them and to understand the severe damage bad mortgage loans can cause to the economy if origination of additional trillions of dollars of those bad mortgage loans are allowed to continue. Deregulation didn't cause the 2008 meltdown, no oversight of horrendous lending practices did. And the few regulators who did try to sound an alarm were ignored. These additional 2,300 pages of regulations, whatever is in them, will do little to prevent another financial meltdown if oversight remains non-existent, or if the overseers again sound the alarm but are once more ignored.

More fearmongering. When you cant convince someone with facts - scare the crap out of them. Typical repub.

These regs will add cost and uncertainty for the banks. The uncertainty will delay economic recovery and the costs will be passed on to the bank customers, like you and everyone else.

The number of regulations, which are indeed a tax, will be exploding though the market that was already suffering from regulatory excesses. There’s a consensus in Washington that “wise” regulations can compensate for all the mistakes made by the Federal Reserve, the Executive Branch, and the Congress. This fallacy has been around a long time.

Most Americans know that the standard of living and real wages have not gone up for the past 10 years. If you’re not a shrewd stock trader and instead invested in stocks 10 years ago and held on, in real terms you have lost 20% of your savings.

The middle class is poorer also because house prices have crashed and many have lost their homes. On top of this, all we hear about is the trillions of dollars of debt and entitlement obligations that have been racked up for future taxpayers to pay.

When it is revealed that the insider friends of the Fed and Congress (both Democrats and Republicans) get billions of dollars in bailout at the expense of the middle class, there will be a lot of angry people.

These regulations in effort to reverse the tide with more spending, higher deficits, increased taxes and money creation. This effort is now providing another grand bubble: the dollar/bond bubble.

The next event will be a dollar crisis. The extent of a dollar crisis depends on whether or not the Washington politicians wake up and change their ways – a dubious hope.

Since 1973, shortly after the breakdown of the Bretton Woods Agreement, the dollar has lost 32% of its value against a Federal Reserve basket of currencies. But that doesn’t tell the real story, since that is a measurement against all other currencies, and they are fiat currencies as well. This gave the dollar an artificial benefit from its position of power in great wealth and military prowess. The dollar in relationship to gold, however, is down 97% since 1971, and 82% as measured by the CPI. The dollar, mismanaged by the Fed, has not been a benefit to the savers who sought to responsibly take care of themselves. They’ve been cheated by a rotten system and are just beginning to understand exactly how the Federal Reserve has been responsible for the swindle.

Then support your local banks. We still have a competitive free market, speak with your money.

Government takeover? Where do you get that? We need stronger regulation. Oh wait, you must have forgotten what just happened at the end of 2008, when we had a financial collapse. . . .

The SUCKERS are the American people who allow congress in the past to passed laws that allow big corporation to exploit the systems.

Well said.

Very wel stated.

Congress has made a bunch of bad rules for the US Financial system. Giving the executive branch the right to arbitrarily declare a company "too big to fail" and a threat to the economy - AND THEN DISSOLVE IT - is a power that does not belong under our constitution. It is simply too big a club in the hands of politicians. So, when do thery dissolve Freddie and Fannie?

Luckily - I have taken steps to save my savings. I recommend you do the same. They have screwed with the engine of America, and they know not what they do.

Watch out below!

This will accomplish one thing, the large companies will move their corporate headquarters out of the US and become corporate citizebs ofmother countrie, then thumb their nose an Obam from that country.

We keep telling the inept liar he isn't smart enough to do what he is trying to do and he keeps on stepping in manure.

What idiocy. Read the damn bill for gosh sakes.

jhendric,

You are absolutely right.

I had to laugh!!

What's the most tragic & sad thing about all of this is we have these idiots in the senate, congress and the White House that don't know squat about anything, yet they make these sweeping changes.....on all levels, in every area.

Big brother government at its finest. Again with "boil the ocean" insanity that this administration will be remembered for....and for all you liberal idiots that think this is a good thing......you'll never wake up, you're all in some crazed coma and only when things truly break will you wake up and realize....."oh $heet"....we're f'd.....then it'll be too late....with everything that's broke in this country...it's a sad statement that we're in 2 wars, Obama's the worst President ever, he's getting away with murder because there's no checks and balances and the biggest thing we find ourselves hearing about is Mel Gibson.

Man are we screwed.

I sure hope the liberal idiots can make up for the loss they have created when all of our big money leaves the usa.

I find it ironic that the very people who lied at bushs congressional hearings passed laws for the very lies they themselves told.No good can come of this and I see a big tax void in our eminant future if this country does not rid themselves of these criminals once and for all.

Shocking Video Unearthed Democrats in their own words Covering up the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Scam that caused our Economic Crisis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&feature=related

I look at how many people do not know one single thing about the past events of their own country.

This is not the fault of the republicans this is the fault of the democrats. These same people who do not know one thing about the events of this country keep making the same dumbed down mistakes. If you cannot take the time to know what is going on in the usa dont take the time to vote.

Vote them out!

Let me ask you something genius - who had executive and legislative control in 2004? Repubs. They held all the cards - yet did nothing. You had Alan Greenspan running around saying the markets would take care of themselves. Yet you are blaming the minority in congress for this mess? LOL!

Ever hear of VETO?