Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.comMany workers, rattled by the recession and wondering if their desk jobs will ever come back, are turning to trades that require more hands-on, dirty work - everything from carpentry to plumbing.
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You better by by god learn Spanish !!!
You are absolutely right Tigere. Right behind my house a developer built a new subdivision of homes. I was out of work and home most days with plenty of time to watch and listen. Only the forman spoke English. You can't export a tradesman's job overseas but you sure can hire a illegal here for a lot less. I too know electricans out of work. BTW the way the housing market is and is going to be for quite sometime before most trades are steady employment. And when it is it will be for a lot less.
Exactly the problem. Any time that any American sees a situation like that where it is highly likely that illegal aliens are being used, we should call it in to ICE. If they don't respond, we should KEEP calling until they do! All employers of illegal aliens should be held up to public contempt and fined and, for repeat offenders, jailed! The illegals should be deported, along with their families. Panderers keep whining that we "can't" deport 12 million people. This is baloney. Yes, we can! And should! ASAP!
Why is there an assumption that because somebody speaks Spanish that they are here illegally?
If thats all they speak Chris - yes -chances are 90 to 1
Chris-141825
I know for a fact most construction workers are illegals. They take entrylevel jobs and watch other tradesmen do their jobs. After they watch them do it a few months then they get on another site claiming they have experience in that trade. I just watched a new school being built across the street from where I work. A company that won the cement and block work had all spanish speaking workers (our tax dollars hard at work). Every Friday a truck would pull up and all the workers lined up by it. It seems they always were given cash in hand that day (there goes the arguement that they pay taxes huh?). However a few weeks in to the job and police van pulled up to the construction trailer. You should have seen that job site empty quickly. They were dropping their tools and hard hats and were jumping fences. They were even walking around our parking lot or nieghborhoods. Yup they must have been legal Americans. I even had a nephew try doing window installing and he stated the same that if you don't speak english then you don't belong in a construction site because illegals have taken over that field now. He said he was watched on how he did his job by the labors everyday.
But I guess construction work is just another job us lazy American workers won't do. You can also list factory work as well! Their taking low to middle income jobs and turning them in to minium wage jobs and the company owners are laughing all the way to the bank. They don't pass these saving on to the customer. I also had a friend that was building a log home. He purchase the kit and the company was to put the logs together for him. On the first day a van full of Spanish speaking workers arrived. He asked for ID's or green cards but got the "no speak English". He sent them on their way and called the home builder. The builder got mad when he demanded legal workers. The builder told him that it would cost him an extra $5,000.00 for them and he told the builder the deal is off so come and pickup your lofs. He didn't waver from his stance and a few weeks later a few trucks showed up with American builders. The log home was put together in a week. Hmmmm $5,000 extra for a weeks worth of work for American workers. But those workers did great work for him because of what he did. They also confirmed that they used to do all the work for this builder until he decided to use illegals for pennies on the dollar. They said they can't live with 6-10 people in a one room apartment and I don't blame them.
Our companies are exporting every job they can and the ones they can't they'll hire illegals for cheap labor. The American worker is getting sold out! Our middleclass is disappearing because of this but the companies are shortsighted. With no middle to low middle income class there won't be anybody left to buy their products.
i know of 300 electricians in jax that have been looking for work over a year. to read crap like this article wow where do they get their info from. you can just about look at 3 to 6 months out of work on a normal year.
Eve,
Your article gives false hope to people with little or nothing left to lose.
There’s no pot-o-gold at the end of a hammer.
Going into the trades based on the notion you’ll find better employment opportunities is equivalent to trading your ticket on the Hindenburg for a better seat on the Titanic. Paying tuition to a for-profit trade school is comparable to attending Barnum’s Circus … "There's a sucker born every minute"
The unions and the companies that hire them love apprentices …
They work cheap and can’t leave.
GKinBJ Carpenter Foreman 20+ years Custom Residential Construction
You know GK - your point is to important to over look - "schools teach you only a small fraction of what you need - the four year apprentice programs were excellent ... it takes about 4 years to work through your dumb ass mistakes until you quit making them and your foreman quits biting you ass ... but I think more importantly you become acclimated to the culture of it - not for the sensitive ... a safety director once referred to us as "industrial athletes" (production framing) ...
went into a plush bar after a hard day in the dirt - sweaty dirty stinky - the bartender suggested if I would look around I see that every one in the place was "professionly dressed" ... I might be more comfortable in a "working man's bar" ... I replied I was a professional and this is what I wear to the office - and I've had a hard day at the office - gimme a GD beer .... police escorted me out (whispering under their breath to me - I know I know ) .... give me a room full of sh** talking construction workers every time ...
Turning to the trades- let me tell you, when you're past 40 and resort to a formative skill or learning a new skill that involves physical effort, you'd better think twice. Consistently and repetitively working with your body day in & day out reveals all your weaknesses. Set aside some funds for a chiropractor because you're going to need it. On the back side of things, by the time you reach your 60's you will be done. It's fine in your 20's & 30's- age 40 is hitting the continental divide of life and after that it is truly downhill.
That's too simplistic- diet & exercise won't slow down the process of deterioration while you're simultaneously tearing down your body due to your vocation. One person I know is suffering from a deteriorated disk in his back. He was in such pain that he could barely make it through the work day let alone be able to exercise. And he was already in pretty outstanding shape to begin with. The point is, his trade wore his back out and caused a downward spiral in his overall health. 3 years later, he had to quit his trade, is retraining for a new sit-down career, and is still going through rehab- all at age 54.
Besides all these problems, how are we going to assure that these new jobs go to AMERICANS and not to illegal aliens? Illegal aliens have practically taken over the entry-level and lower-level jobs in construction and other manual-labor fields; how can we get these leeches out and sent home and make sure that the jobs go to our own people? It won't do any good to add new jobs if all they do is entice even more illegal aliens to sneak in to take them. We need jobs for our OWN people, not the people of the Third World. Illegal aliens could be sent home and those jobs could be given to Americans, at American wages, not slave wages.
Also, with 15 million Americans out of work, does it really make sense to have over 2 million LEGAL immigrants coming here every year? Could we maybe "make do" with HALF that number? At least until Americans are put back to work?
I guess that after a while it becomes easy to find the negative in everything. It no longer becomes an art form but a natural way of existance.
Feeling very sorry for you guys and even worse for the ones who are trying to better themselves.
For me these comments above are short sighted, totally negative with no future vision and full of the negativity that most of us can do without.
I applaud those who believe that mastering a trade and making a committment can better their lives. Not to mention the pure act of getting up and doing something will make a difference to those who choose to do so.
The illegal employment argument is a futile one for me rather than taking this as the oppotunity combined with the new Health care laws to provide the momentum to YET AGAIN make some significant changes to our imbalanced system.
The illegal workes problem is one that is a truly bi partisan problematic as neither party wants to adress it despite the pandering.
I can understand times are tough and folks are out of work, but when the Johnny Come Lately's decide to swing a hammer for a living because hey "need something to fall back on" they put people like my husband who has 30 years of experience swinging a hammer out of work. When you have someone come in to quote a job and low balls it because they have little no experience, or only do it onther weekends, you're taking jobs away from qualified trades-people who have their trade and only their trade to fall back on. Pisses me off......
and i think it is not only terrible practice but also quite dangerous for inexperienced people to be on a job site. it increases accidents, dissabilities, workers comp for the employer and employee.
there are a ton of people out there with magentic stickers on the side of their cars and trucks and it ruins the market. usually it does not take long to weed them out, but there is always another to take their place.
problem is they are not paying taxes, insurance, signing accident waivers and working for cash.
I'd rather see them taking on an apprentice position and much as i do not like unions, it is a better service for everyone for these people to learn the trade properly and provide some equilibrium to the industry.
i am sure you and your husband have seen this behaviour many times. although it does not help much now his ability is most likely testament to himself and few can replace him long term.
Not sure what this article is talking about. Here at IBEW LU481 we have about 600 sitting with at least a 2 year projected return to work.
do they get money from you while they sit out, i honestly don't know how that works.
are they allowed to work independently while sitting out? i dont know that either>
No, this isn't the auto workers union. Trades get laid off and collect unemployment just like everyone else. And no, the cannot work "independently". MN IBEW Minneapolis St. Paul IBEW (electrical) has over 1000 laid off and that won't change for years. Plumbers union stopped taking apprentices. Good luck with joining trades.
If you think your coming into our world you will be in for a big surprise.Leave your college education and your political correctness as well as your feelings and emotions in the car.This is the real world where people actually work for a living.Yes we cuss,sweat,throw things,and work our asses off,and most don't care about your troubles.Construction workers are the best people Ive ever been around but out here things are different than in your little office.its cold,hot,fast,and people get hurt.If you cut your finger don't think you need to get medical treatment for a scratch,wrap a rag around it and cover it with electrical tape and keep getting it.You can lick your wounds when you get home.We don't need a bunch of college educated NANCY boys out here trying to tell us how to do our work,after all we are the ones who built this nation.I.B.E.W, 968
ALLRIGHT!!!
I bet there are quite A few who are just a little tired of political correctness and would do quite well as long as they knew they woudl start from the bottom and learn the real way. and just think of all the fun you can have with them on construction site pranks.
Not sure if I agree 100% with this article (trades mentioned). I do agree that if you train in the "right" trades (medical, energy, etc..) and in the right locations, there will be work found. It all comes down to doing a little homework before hand. Maybe a simple thing as getting a CDL and driving a truck will keep you employed. Willing to bet there are many college grads doing this. It's not great pay but certainly beats a blank and your've gained a new skill.
Even in the "right" trades, until the economy picks up again there will be little need for lots of carpenters, drywallers, plumbers, electricians, etc., at least on new construction sites. And with so many tradesmen out of work, I suspect that it will be a long time before all can work again. So does it really make any sense to allow illegal aliens to scarf up all the entry-level and less-skilled jobs at slave wages, while American workers sit in hiring hals, waiting, waiting...? We should all make sure that our elected "representatives" (mostly representing the big money elites) know that voting for amnesty for illegals is worth a ticket back home for the representatives! We need to help our fellow Americans, not provide jobs for the entire Third World.
Just what society needs, a bunch of out-of-shape old farts who will soon realize one can make a career out of Workman's Comp.
"Oh my BACK...my baaaaaack! I've fallen, and I cant get up!"
Fine commentary, but what most people seem to be missing is this is just a propaganda article. The likes of MSNBC are mouthpieces for the State, trying to soften up the readers for the fact that we are in a s**tload of trouble.
Don't worry about getting into the "trades" do your damnedest to get a job in the "apparatus". If you don't join the ranks of the apparatchiki it isn't going matter a tiny little bit if you've got a white collar or a blue collar job. If you aren't connected you're a nobody. The best shot you've got to make it through the next ten years, and the societal spasms that we are inevitably in for, is to be a mid-level government drone - secure enough to protect yourself from the bottom, but not high enough to be marched off to a wall and shot. Otherwise you're either working in some factory or you are on the wrong side of the razor wire.
When AMERICANS are willing to work for the same pay as our brothers and sisters overseas then and only then will jobs come back in significant numbers.
i know spanish and english and i was out of work for a almost a year and a half,came back to work in september of 09 and got laid off in january of 2010.I am a union construction worker,most of my friends are out of work.Somebody is lying,there is nothing out there!!!!!
ive been working new construction for over 20yrs now in the hvac industry. this kind of job will destroy your body period. its nice to work with your hands but you will eventually pay for it. stay in college and retire in one piece with some energy. as of now in the philly surrounding area im dealing with pay freezes. no 401k match. hmm next week i hear were going to 32hr work weeks yet im busy figure that one out, guess someone with an MBA decided it was a good idea or something i dunno but it will backfire one would imagine. story covers a 45yr old lady going into carpentry makes me laugh, wish her luck but heck if i ever seen any women last in this industry. she better take pretty much all foreign languages if she wants a job in that field because the reality of it is that the foreigners are the ones working their asses off building non stop from dusk till dawn. i know because im pretty much the only american working that late on the jobsites here. If i had to do this over again i would have gone union. at least theres a penison at the end of the long miserable tunnel of slamming a hammer for a living. as far as energy eff. housing yes costs are added on to the homeowner and the contractor is basically screwed eating that cost as the builders that are still going know theyre the only game in town. You can’t outsource this kind of work. You can’t call India to get a carpenter.” umm yes they can and have been lol this story makes me laugh. Tax incentives hahaha yes i have to work harder now with no help to earn my tax dollars back hahaha im dying here hahahaha. heres another one High school educators also are realizing that it’s not wise to prepare students for college and nothing else because many of them will never graduate from college, Montano said. are those public school teachers total failures second guessing themselves? i mean come on theyre suppose to educate yet they say that! give me vouchers so my childern dont have to deal with the public schools failed attitude. and another thing open back up the tech schools so the parents that do realize their kids arent book smarts can maybe try a diff kind of schooling like that or find out the root problem of their book smart problems such as dyslexia and sort because teachers fail to find these problems for childern because school classes are too big and these childern tend to slip through the cracks. EDUCATION is key here go to damn college!!
It does pay to know trades. Preferable more than one. I have not called a serviceman to my residence for over 15 years and there is no telling of how much hard earned cash this has saved me. Some areas of expertise is obviously better left off to the experts but for the most part I fill the part and the shoes 9 out of 10 times. A jack of all and master of none does pay off and your learning experiences only expand the more you practice it. Problem is, when age catches up to you and you are left with no choice but to hire out the work you can no longer do, your satisfaction with the work done may never fully be appreciated. You more than likely will tell yourself I could have done that, and maybe done it better, and therefore will pay the bill but with a little bit of bitterness attached. My two cents....
Speaking of higher education, there are definite problems areas to address with career selectness. I have witnessed first hand several college educated individuals entering the work force. Totally clueless to the demands of multi-tasking, physical attention, and general interactive co-worker skills related to their field they dedicated so much money and time into. One individual worked for 3 months and was so frustrated and disappointed at his occupation he quickly without much second thought abandoned his four year degree and went looking elsewhere for a job that fit his liking. He liked the subject matter but the actual work related to the subject not so much. A degree in criminal justice but is headed into nursing. Go figure?
The trades hire foreman who are bilingual,English-Spanish.Illegals don't complain if their checks are innaccurate,they aren't paid overitme and they don't get breaks.Every construcution sight I drive by have all Mexican workers.The trade jobs such as Cal Trans has Mexican American workers.More employers are requiring employees to speak Spanish and English.The other problem is age.My brother who is 61 is a spot welding inspector.His boss sends him to the farthest away jobs to get him to retire.He can't afford to retire but the boss knows that the younger worker is cheaper.We have had discrimination going on for two decades in the employment arena and nobody in government will address these issues.
All the more reason to use union labor.We know our jobs,we have been trained to do them right.We do make more money than non-union workers but that is because we deliver a better product,and we are legal,we pay taxes,we speak English,we are not on welfare,we pay our bills.If I can get enough overtime I can make 100,000 a year but that's still not that great of a wage when I'm spending $100 a week driving to work and paying $2500 a year for car insurance.I went through 7 years of apprenticeship to get my job,no one gave it to me.I work out in the cold winters and sweat in the hot sun in the summer,I earn my money.If you want to bash the unions,what you are really saying is that you are on the side of big business and you don't think that the average American deserves to make a descent living for his family.
Waa, Waa, Waa, now some of you people are finding out that those of us that actually work for a living and get all dirty and grimy were not the mentally deficient or the kids in trouble when we chose trade school or an apprenticeship over a collage degree. That actually creating something with your own hands is not only satisfying but pays quite well.
You blame the illegals but not to may years ago your couldn't get someone to do the work they do for any price! How many of you 10 years ago would consider working in front of a 600 ton press that sounds like a bomb going off 60 times a minute, being sprayed with oil mist in either 45 or 100 degree temperatures and handling parts that are as sharp as razor blades for 8 to 10 hours a day? I can't count the kids that didn't last a day!
The world is changing, yes, people have to have skills and are willing to work again, you have to give 110% every day and be responsible for your mistakes. A lot of jobs went over seas simply because no one here would do them.
People joke about the plumber fixing your drain and his pants falling down, or the man pumping your septic tank, until you get there bill! Union or nonunion it doesn't matter those willing to work in this economy and have good skills and work ethic have jobs. But the keyword is skill, if your a skilled machinist, (not an NC part changer), a tool maker, a seamstress an auto mechanic that is good and fair, there is work out there!
Wizardsnest.you tell them!I love talking to old high school classmates who went to the big college and watch their faces when I tell them I made $125,000 last year running conduit and pulling wire.While they were still school boys drinking beer and waving banners of their college I was working and going through 7 years of apprenticeship.
I agree, I've maxed out almost every year on Social security since 1980. But these people at 45 think they can do a 4, 5, 6 or 7 year apprenticeship? The pace damn near killed me at 19, to learn the amount of knowledge it takes to pass an apprenticeship, plus the math skills needed. Not sure about the IBEW but in Tool and die, fail 1 test or mess up to much or miss to many days of work and your out! I was cussed out in more languages than I knew at that time, heck, I didn't know they had words like that in Yiddish!
hey truthisoutthere me to durring the big boom we had a bunch of power houses we were doin 6/10s 7/12s all ot double I did a few years in the 170s it was sweet to see the look on there faces! JK
I'm not ashamed to say I'm a white collar worker. I've solved complex problems for systems all over the world, and helped my bosses and companies make millions and millions of dollars.
I think this article is full of bad advice though. I'm good at negotiating, problem solving, design, integration. If I went into the trades in my mid 40s, I'd make less and probably wreck my body in 2 years.
Here's my philosophy for what it's worth, SAVE your money, Live more simply in a smaller house, do something like the Asians where the extended family shares a dwelling. I still make a six figure income, but I don't have cable TV, I drive an 10 year old Saturn, I bag my lunch and dont eat out, I drink coffees and never an expensive latte, etc. I SAVE about 1/3 of my income and could go about a decade without a paycheck if I have to.
As far as work goes, your white collar skills are valuable. Why throw away a few decades of knowledge because of hard times? Be more flexible in the job you take, be willing to relocate, allow yourself to consider other fields like the medical field.
wizards nest,your right about the hard work and pace of the schooling.Working 7 days a week 12 hours a day and going to school 3 hours a night 2 nights a week can really be exhausting.In the electrical business everything in our theory and many task on the job require advanced mathematical skills.It might not be as easy as some would think to get to the top in the trades.To qualify for an apprenticeship our board looks for someone with at least an associates degree.Every year we will have up to 300 candidates and only accept 10 to 12. Most think to get into a union you have to be "connected," maybe in the old days that was true but now you have to have the knowledge,the proper attitude,and the ability to work for what you get.
Wow this article is bogus Im an electrician in Boston I have been laid off a year now. Im a union electrician we have 1700 elec. laid off we have not had new apprentices in 2 years. This is hard work very fast paced nothing like auto workers or city state workers. If you do try it find out how to join the union training programs they are so much better and if you read this dumb article I bet the wages are based on prevailing wages so if your down south your screwed you will probably make the same as a fast food worker.
Same here I have worked 6 months out of the last two years.