They ought to be taken out and shot!!! How can they find it just??? When because of them... This Country is the mess they are today!!!

Because of them??? Give me a break.

We can't just go out and shoot a bunch of bankers. You know we have rules and laws in this country. We are all subject to punishment for crimes, except of course for those on the board of directors of AIG and Goldman Sux.

alan,

Of what "mortgage fraud" do you speak? They are damned if they DON'T lend to unqualified people and they are damned if they DO loan to unqualified people. You just can't win in a country filled with people that feel they are entitled to whatever they want.

What mortgage fraud? The banks were passing off their mortgaged backed securities (MBS's) as high grade, when they knew otherwise. They were selling their MBS's while at the same time shorting, and buy insurance against their defaults.

..and it all came crumbling down when unqualified borrowers started defaulting on their loans. Whose fault was that???

Day dreaming. They deserve all the pay they got! Can you convince the congress to give them a blank check? Can you convince the government to bail you out at the expense of tax payer? Can you make money in good days and bad days? See. That is why they are rich and we are poor. These people run this country. They will not stop before we are bankrupt. Once they suck all our blood, they will move to the next victim.

If you don't like this, do not play their game. Do not take out a loan from them. Do not pay interest. Do not buy their over priced stocks. Do not put your money in their banks. But no, greed of people are too great. You all want to jump into the bandwagon to get your share of the windfall. Look how the mania continues:

http://www.tradingstocks.net/html/financial_mania_continues.html

west

who bought the unqualified borrowers loans? why were they rated triple A?

OTC Derivatives are still being traded in the dark and the financial lobbyists are trying to kill any meaningful reform. Why do need financial lobbyists to pay for the campaigns of our elected officials and buy their votes?

We're sick and tired of this crap. Goldman bonus per person is $575,000?

Freddie and Fannie purchased those bad loans, that's why the banks where willing to give them so easily. The government trying to fix this is truly the fox guarding the henhouse.

IMK02

The problem is not the CEO's. The problem is our wonderful Politicians. Our President and Congress complains about the Bonuses of these financial Institutions, while at the same time Fannie and Freddie which have sunk like a rock long ago and are just like every other failing Government Program (Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, Postal Service, Cash for Clunkers, $8,000.00 for new home buyers, etc.....) are paying out massive bonuses.

Who is the one who approved all this TARP money with no rules. YOUR DAMN GOVERNMENT.

The same Government (Democrats) who had that wonderful CRA Program started under Carter, expanded under Clinton and covered up (As to its failure) under Ms. Barney Franks, Dodd (Mr. Sweet Heart Mortgages for himself), Pelosi, Reid, Waters, Schumer, Clinton(s) and the rest of those wonderful Democrats who lied about the CRA.

IMK02 you should get your facts right before you comment. The CRA and its failure is easy to follow and easy to see the players who caused this whole mess.

Under the Democrats and their wonderful CRA Program, the American Dream was alive and well (At the expense of the rest of us) for those who couldn't afford the damn mortgage to begin with.

Pressure by Democratic Politicians and the likes of Al "Not so Sharp" Sharpton, Jesse Jackass to name a few put major pressure on Banks to lend even though the borrowers couldn't afford it.

And what follows in the near future, if interest rates rise are a few million more mortgages going into default because of the Adjustable Rate Mortgage these people have. They won't be able to afford their increased payment. And with values plumenting, it won't make sense for them to stay, so they will just walk away from it. Then the Bank takes over yet more property.

2010 will be filled with more unemployment, more mortgage defaults, Obama Taxation which will only lead to more unemployment and more mortgage defaults.

This President and Congress have no idea how to get us out of this hole.

Wait until the Commercial Bubble Bursts. It's Coming!

Exactly rmb, all this finger pointing at bank CEO's, lobbyists, etc. is exactly what the corrupt politicians are counting on to keep the focus off of their complicity in this mess. Unfortunately, the masses fall right into the trap like sheep being led to the slaughter.

What are you guys talking about? Spin Spin and more Spin. Most of the comments here think you are wrong.

The financial lobbyists have bought and paid for the politicians and you try to blame them? Don't worry they are on our list also. This is not a one party undertaking, it crosses all party lines. We are Sick and Tired. Of politicians, but lobbyists are a systemic threat to our society.

Many of these bankers, rating agencies, slush oh I mean Hedge funds, mortgage originators should be in jail.

What about Credit Default Swaps and the OTC Derivatives market still being traded in the dark? 6 financial lobbyists for each legislator to kill any reform.

Reagan started the crap with deregulation and thought free enterprise would take care of everything.

Go figure. Blind unbounded greed. Of course the people working in the trenches didn't cause the problem but these aren't the people getting outragious bonus money. These executives are so totally out of touch with reality that they either have no idea what it's like being their victim or they simply don't give a rats ass about anything- customers (victims), our country or the planet. All they care about is lining their nests to the point where they are the envy of kings. Screw them all. I'm just thankful I'm not a shareholder or I'd really be mad.

Screw them! I have took 38% pay-cut in the last year, and their wining about f**king bonuses. Live off your regular pay and be thankful you have a job.

..."the head of the panel asserted on Wednesday that risky financial actions led to devastating consequences for American families.

They also said they underestimated the severity of the 2008 financial crisis and apologized for risky behavior and poor decisions.

Americans are furious and "have a right to be"...

Well, they know the situation, but what will be done about it? Zip, that's my guess. The Fed and the SEC, someone, better get on this. The S&L Crises of the late 1980s S&L bailout cost every man, woman, and child in America over $5k each - this new debacle will cost far more. (Last I read, about $36k, but surely it is higher than that now.)

Angelides, a former Democratic treasurer of California, questioned Goldman Sachs' Lloyd Blankfein about packaging soured assets into bond-like securities and selling them to investors — even as Goldman Sachs was "shorting" the same securities, or making bets they would fail. These included risky mortgages that were extended to borrowers with poor credit records and helped cause the home-loan bust.

"It sounds like selling a car with faulty brakes and then buying an insurance policy on that car," Angelides said.

Responded Blankfein: "I do think the behavior is improper. We regret the consequence that people have lost money in it."

Moral turpitude is lacking on Wall Street.

..and it all came crumbling down when unqualified borrowers started defaulting on their loans. Whose fault was that???

Oh, I know, the banks just HAD to jack those APRs up 10-15%.....

Judging by your post, you must be a banker, because you are spending an awful lot of time apologizing for their usury and immoral behavior.

Goldman made loans that they bet against being repaid.

What are they, at a friggen balckjack table, buying insurance in case the house has 21?

What a crock of you know what!!! This Special Commission will do nothing and change nothing. It is just a horse and pony show to make the taxpayers of this country think something is being done. These CEOs will continue getting their fat cat salaries and bonuses and will find some other crooked way to fleece Joe and Minnie Lunch-bucket. The Commission members will smile and act as if they had actually done something, knowing all the time they are as useless as tits on a boar hog. It makes me sick to even read this dribble about this so called Special Commission.

Well, for a variety of reasons, none of them making any sense, the bankers will NEVER go to jail. Shooting them, while being a great second alternative, will only wind up putting those that are pissed off in prison.

So...what can we do to take out our vengeance on crocked bankers and make them bleed out their collective asses? if we all took some time away from Newsvine commenting and went to our banks.... BofA and the rest of them, and CLOSED OUR ACCOUNTS...... then went and opened a new one at our local small town bank... and did it en masse, they would be taught a lesson that they would NOT soon forget. I've been suggesting this for months, actually.

there was an article in the New York Times that suggested the same tactic, punishing the banks in the only way they understand... losing depositors. Funny thing is, the author of the newspaper article, and the editor, were chided for suggesting banking consumers create the equivalent of a run on the banks, that could conceivably put them out of business. WTF!!!! THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE SHOULD ALL DO!!! This would then bring the hammers of hell reigning down on these crooked bastards and teach them a lesson.

Imagine if thousands of people did this, and also told the crooks we were closing our credit card accounts.... telling the banks to use their ass cheeks as an ATM and swipe my closed card between them!!!

The only thing these crooks understand is deposits.... OR the lack thereof. Teach them all a lesson they will not soon forget. Problem is, most of us are too lazy to bother doing so, and the bankers know it. Am I the only one that thinks this is a good idea? If not, who will be first to join me in moving accounts? I already did, and I love the smaller, not too big to fail, bank I am now with. THEY didnt take any TARP money. They were good bankers and didnt need the money.

Jamie Dimon, chief executive of JPMorgan Chase & Co., said most of his employees took "significant cuts in compensation" in 2008. He said his company would continue to pay people in a "responsible and disciplined manner" to attract and retain top talent.

What type of "top" talent? People that know how to shaft a nation? Personally I view this as treason of the highest order....line 'em up an mow 'em down.

rubbing the taxpayers nose in BS--political "noise"--"my look at us (congress); we're doing something to assuage your anger; we're paying the bonuses, no recourse, sorry"

Anyone really falling for this dog and pony show? I would like to see a tally of how much each member on this commission has received in campaign contributions from the banking and credit industry, plus how much their respective party has also received. Then you'll see why this will go absolutely nowhere. No one thinks it's strange these politicians haven't restored the regulations that would've prevented this from happening in the first place? This is like having Cheney investigate Halliburton for defrauding the government!

Angelides has started off right. He is trying to put their feet to the fire. The scene is like the Nurenburg Trials. Blankfein is intolerably arrogant. He had the audacity to say that there is nothing wrong with selling securities that he knew were worthless and buying short positions on them to make money when they failed. The only one who showed some decency was Dimon. The other three are gangsters. Blankfein is taking a $68 million dollar 'bonus' this year and had no answer when asked if he understood that his compensation was derived by making people homeless, unemployed and bereft. The bottom line is that anyone who thinks that it is ok to bilk hard working people out of their savings, their homes, their childrens' education, their retirement hopes etc just so that they can grab $$$millions more than they will ever live to spend is a blackhearted gangster plain and simple.

A bunch of hot air is about to be expelled (Lord knows we can use it after this cold spell) and in the end nothing will be accomplished,just like the 9/11 commission when you had one of the architects of the intelligence failures sitting high and mighty and trying to pass the buck instead of facing the truth that both administrations were at fault and more importantly doing nothing to insure a future attack (12/25/2009) wouldn't occur. I expect about the same results here.

15 years ago I saw the prices of land and homes being inflated by speculators to the point where nobody who actually worked for a living could afford to pay a mortgage. Then we have banker shill goofs here blaming the whole thing on "unqualified buyers". So unless you get free money from the Federal Reserve, are a weapons manufacturer CEO PNAC chicken hawk who wanted a New Pearl Harbor, import products from China or maybe own the rights to a gas or oil well on public land you are unqualified. The infinitely greedy who think only of them selves and their profiteering should all go have a circle jerk and find some other planet to destroy. They have no plan for the US, no plan for humanity other than manipulating it to suit their infinite greed. They serve no purpose to humanity and are like beast worshipers that will bring all of humanity to extinction rather than show any love or respect to anyone unless it is somebody with more ill gotten wealth than themselves.

Ken,

Who exactly are the "speculators" that you speak of??? They are the people who thought they could easily flip houses or thought they could get interest only mortgages because home prices would never stop going up or got ARM's because they figured they'd sell at a big profit before the rates adjusted. These are the practices that drove housing prices to ridiculous levels. The principle of supply and demand. If people simply bought what they could afford with a 30 year fixed rate mortgage and 20% down payment this housing bubble would never have happened.

west-I think you better go back and re-read the article. They admit to the meltdown. They admit to poor business transactions. I don't know why you always stick up for them when they admit to poor judgement that started the downfall. Why do you have to twist it around and make it some one else's fault? Go back and read the article.

Untrue West just as your own writing has proven. Just like I said and you said the flippers flipped and that became nothing more than a ponzi scheme. There should have been some sort of method of regulating regulating this because it took a while but only until the whole ecomony collapsed as a result of speculation profiteers. Housing and food are necessary and besides mortgages it also affected renters so if they jack your rent to 2k, you can try to by for 1.5k a month and on 15$ an hour you can really only afford $500 a month what do you do? The next thing you know you are laid off because nobody has any money execpt the speculators. You are not dumb West. WHy were and are people that are in these positions so dumb that they can make 10s of millions a year for being dumb and greedy? They could have put a 4% annual inflation rate on used re-sale homes or something. There has to be some way to regulate a free market so that people who work for a living can be free to work and make a living.

The housing prices WERE regulated by supply and demand....as long as lending requirements were pretty consistent. For decades the housing market was fine until we started all this ARM, interest only, reverse amortization, no doc loans, etc. that artificially drove up the price of houses. This never would have happened if people needed a 20% down payment and fixed rate loans. You can certainly lay the blame at the feet of the banks but to ignore the people who took advantage of these new instruments and the politicians who pressured banks into offering them (so more people could own homes) is simply cherry picking your villians.

They are the worlds most powerful labor (unnamed) union. They sit on each other board of directors, handing out millions in bonuses regardless of performance.

Wall Street has not realized they are now only a small piece of Global Finance, and that they are overcompensated by 10X.

Perhaps someone should shoot these arrogant @$$clowns. Then they could just get up on the stand and say stuff like: "Well, I guess it might have been wrong to shoot them, but as long as you give me a few billion to entertain my buddies with, I'll try and look into a way I can not shoot as many of them in the future".

west

You have never answered my question about lobbyists trying to kill reform in the OTC Derivatives market that is traded in the dark. Do you condone lobbyists? You should watch this video from PBS about the OTC Derivatives that played a big part in this deep recession bankers got us into. The government had to save us from a depression.

www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/

"Wall St. CEOs Defend Pay Practices"

I say HANG every last one of these selfish, greedy, arrogant, miserable money-grubbing bastards from the highest tree that can be found...and do it on national television!!

Can you say huge pay raises, 7 figure bonuses, spa retreats, golf excursions, and $1000 an hour whores? Corporate executives sure as Hell can with more than 15 million Americans out of work...go figure!

Knight,

I had this debate with someone else yesterday regarding lobbyists. Lobbyists are simply out to do what is best for THEIR client, that is what they get paid for...no different than union leaders negotiating crippling contracts. The people you should be angry with is not the lobbyists but the POLITICIANS who sell out the country for a few dollars. It is the politicians that we elect and expect to work in our best interest, not the lobbyists. The politicians just love it when voters get distracted away from their culpability in this mess. They love to point the finger at bankers, lobbyists, ertc....NONE of whom have sworn to work in the best interest of the taxpayers.

Please note that Brian Moynihan was representing B of A as CEO at inquiry. I don't know him or any of his policies, but Ken Lewis was CEO when the sh!t hit the fan.

Ted #1.26 & Ken #1.27,

I remember the deluge of infomercials on getting rich by flipping houses _— it was almost non-stop until the sh!t hit the fan. Anyone with any sense could see that this was creating a housing bubble, so where were the state and federal regulators, and what were they doing? Nothing, because all they saw was easy money going into the goverment coffers.

Don't think that I approve of what went on in those investment banks, but you should remember that Congress repealed parts of previous laws that enabled those in the banks to legally do some if not all of these things, that put us where we are now. If I'm not mistaken, Congress hasn't gone back and closed these loopholes, yet. I guess what they are doing is more important than trying to keep our economy afloat.

The bankers should be brought up on charges of treason and prosecuted accordingly. No one made a mistake. The bankers developed legislation that protected them and made business decisions that they knew would result in their taking home huge amounts of money. Money they stole from every American and jeopardized the future of our children. The financial carnage they created devistated the US economy. The bankers did more damage to the US than anything the middle eastern terrorists could have ever dreamed of. Put them in jail.

They "developed legislation"??? I did not know that bankers can pass legislation in this country. Perhaps you might want to revisit the politicians culpability in this mess.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/if-government-wont-break-giant-banks-lets-do-it-ourselves

Spread the word, we can do this.

Please, please these people are above the law. They're in the same rarified air as our politicians.

The housing crisis, bull; once Glass- Steagall was repealed they could now deal in derivatives, oil,corn,wheat, etc; The big boys fought for 20 years to repeal Glass- s., once they got Greenspan on their side, wow, a gambling spree unheard of in the modern world. Greed, not caring about anything but your bonus, and to hell with the investor, they are all sheep to be sheared in the eyes of the brokers.

You need to look at BARNEY FRANKS. He was responsible for this massive failure involving Freddie mac & Fannie Mae. Course, he didn't have a Fuc%#@! clue stating the two were sound two months before the collaspe. What kind of bonus did the head of these Corps get? Millions.

Now, this genius BO administration wants to tax the big banks. Course, they will just pass it on to us taxpayers. Great! Just Great.

Oh, I know, the banks just HAD to jack those APRs up 10-15%.....

Huh? Where? When? Mortgage rates were at or near an all time LOW when people who never should have qualified in the first place started defaulting. They did so fo a variety of reasons:

1. Failure to comprehend the adjustable part of their ARM (not judging just stating a fact).
2. Plummeting real estate market leaving most upside down.
3. Speculative mortgage holders who were trying to flip houses and had essentially lied on their mortgage apps.
4. Economy causing widespread unemployment

The rate did NOT bear a factor in this issue.

All that being said, there is something incredibly irritating listening to these bankers state that "we all bear blame". I'll give them that. I'll accept that the general population for a large extent mishandled their finances, believed in the wild dream that they too could own a home (thank you politicians). Yet the thing that really and I mean REALLY irks me is that they see nothing wrong with getting bonuses already that for some firms are upwards of an average of $450,000. And how did they miraculously succeed in getting these bonuses? Simply by increasing creditcard APR's to an absurd level, increasing overdraft fees to levels that amount to about the same terms you would get from your local mobster loanshark and along with that writing off the bad debt thanks to the taxpayers.

In hindsight it's easy to criticize, but it really does make me wonder why there were no strings attached to the repayment of the TARP funds. Hell at least mandate some kind of interest payment. Or at the very minimum start really clamping down on the excessive profits they are making on items like credit cards etc.

I have no problems a profitable company paying out a bonus, but a bonus based on profit that was only achieved because you managed to write off bad debt thanks to taxpayers funds is just plain wrong. No ifs ands or buts about it.

Do something about it rather than just complaining in blogs. One thing you could do is actually look at the link I posted for y'all at #1.37.

At least, it's something. And we have to do something.

I just want to watch these pieces of crap defend their lives! Now that's something worth seeing. We could make it a reality show, like "Running Man", "Wall Street Edition". That would be cool!

The federal reserve and the banking system do not answer to the goverment, the goverment answers to them!!! what part of that cant you people understand???????what you see here is a broadway show. Trust me bankers and politicians know we're 2 stupid to do anything about it! so say and talk all you want nothing is going to change unless they want it that way...makes me wonder... are we trully free???

I know this is hard to do because the these corporate gangsters manipulate where we Sh*t--but if good hardworking Americans could stop using credit we could hit them where they live. Stop using banks and use your local credit union. Let's take control were we can.

The "TOP TALENT" at these firms developed the Banking ripoff we are all paying for.

Now give them hugh bonuses on top of their executive pay, come on now.

They are all living the american dream while the middle class pays for it all.

Goverment should have bailed out the working class citizens first. Once off the hook, I believe this country would be better off.

westbury64

You sure sound like Mister know it all from here, I wonder who created their sneaky interest rates that ended up doubling a lot of those mortgagepayments, that was the cause of the problem it made qualified home owners into unqualified home owners, it was not about anything else, this is where the problems started .....Now lets see you spin that on the Politicians ...

I guess the politicians didn't get enough lobby money. The hearing will generate some!!!!! Don't forget we pay for the hearing.

Richie,

By "sneaky interest rates" I'm assuming you mean the ones that were in the contract that people decided to sign without reading. Or perhaps it was the "sneaky rates" charged to people with bad credit because they couldn't qualify for a conventional mortgage. If the terms were so bad the people shouldn't have agreed to them, but they where so excited about buying a house they couldn't afford they were willing to sign anything. Then, when things go south, they blame everyone but themselves.

Don't worry I won't try to spin it onto the politicians that you so admire, but I wiill "spin" it as the responsibility of the person who signed the mortgage.

rmscuba,

Your comments show insight and common sense well beyond the understanding of other blogs. BEFORE the bailout, not after, B.O. should have had existing compensation plans at these huge banks studied. He didn't......did not even cross his brain. Now that the large bonuses were out, the Dems are once again grandstanding with their outrage.

Idealism pushed the granting of loans to people who could not afford them, and now, the same people are outraged with the results

Until All of their bailout is paid back, WITH INTEREST, there should be NO BONUSES.

Ken Lewis resigned from BOFA in a huff because he might have to have his pay adjusted. When it was made public that companies that were bailed out would be told what their pay scales would be they SUDDENLY, found the money to pay those loans back. And don't come back with the drivel about how they were forced to take the money. They certianly wern't forced to spend it and NONE of them gave the money back until they thought they may lose a million or two or twenty in personal compensation.

If you put the bankers against the wall- Chris Dodd and Barney Franks need to be standing next to them.

rms, Bush is the one who enacted TARP. Remember, they sky is falling the sky is falling we need this NOW or we will be in full blown depression by the weekend. Remember John McCain suspending his CAMPAIGN to rush to Washington to work on this. Uh....that was in OCTOBER. Did you expect CANDIDATE Obama, SENATOR Obama to take charge and start ordering studies or do you think maybe that was the job of the CURRENT administration at the time? Get over yourself already.

What a bunch of friggin idiots. People like these guys are responsible for destroying peoples financial lives by steeling from them and their retirements. I don't sympathize with these CEO''s one bit.

westbury64

Yep, that good old fine print, but I'm sure you read through the whole thing right, it has nothing to do with trust that these people would not slip one of those sneaky little things in there, maybe that's why now they have to make these Mortgage contracts user friendly .... See the problem is people always blame the politicians that they some how forced the lenders to make loans to people that were not qualified but we know that's not the case, they had no problems until their mortgages doubled, and everything started to collapse like Domino's, to say they had that these institutions had nothing to do with the collapse and blame the politicians is a cop out or spin, it's like the Madoff deal, I'm sure his clients signed papers so is there a double standard where these little people should not get justice? And I don't like politicians they all should be canned, I'm an independent that think for him self ...

They might defend their practices by saying the bonuses are needed to keep their best employees, but what their best employees do is make banks money by gambling, pure and simple. Their entire business model is BS, and they all make far, far, far, far too much money. Their purpose is to lend money, and that's why we keep them around and have kept them afloat. They don't provide their services as promised. If we're going to complain about insurance companies, and we should, the banks are HMOs on crack. And steroids. And Angel Dust. And maybe some sort of super caffeine. These business practices will be the end of capitalism and democracy.

westbury64 So which bank do you work for its obvious. Or you at least own stock right.

It is called preditory lending for a reason. These same banks are now jacking up peoples interest rates on lines of credit. If any other institution or person aside from a bank did this. It is called LOAN SHARKING and is against the law.

The only ones Exempt are Banks go figure. I can only hope that enough people file for Federal Bankruptcy. Walk away from FICO scores and lend to each other for small item purchases. The only way to beat the banker. Is to not do business with them.

My credit is above 700 my mortgage is 3% fixed for 30 years. And I have never been late on my credit card. I had one card. And chase decided to try and raise my rate to 26%. I declined and cut it up. And closed my accounts with them. Local credit union or small bank is the way to go.

Cash is king I now go into my Credit union and do business face to face. Big banks have off shored call centers. Raised rates on good standing customers. Are closing branches to cut costs. Creating new fees. For checking accounts.

Get away from the Big banks IE Chase Bank of America Wells fargo and the like. They are huge corporations that cater to the elite 3% and screw the rest of our citizens. Trust me business as usual for them is over. CEO'S find a new job

Send a message congress and reduce the amount of interest these banks can charge on existing credit. And no more Bailout TARP money.Help the average citizen before they bankrupt the banks through bankruptcy. If some poor sap is hit with higher interest than they had trouble paying in the first place. What makes the bank think they can pay a bigger payment?

Of course that person should file for bankruptcy if a loan is going to make them insolvent. There is no regard on the bankers side so the consumer should show the same respect.It is called unsecured debt. for a reason

Saxon - you are entirely correct. Repealing the Glass-Steagal Act allowed the banks to become high-risk investors and make a huge amount of money for the 9 or 10 years since it was repealed. Those are the same high-risk investments that caused the collapse.

Glass-Steagal was written in 1933 to prevent another depression from happening by limiting banks ability to excessively risk their depositors savings. It was repealed in 1999. For 66 years banks did just fine but I guess the CEO's just weren't making enough in bonuses so they bought some legislatation.

Our wonderful Congress voted 90-8 and 362-57 in favor of allowing the banks to take the risks that led to the collapse last year. It took less than 10 years for what Glass-Steagal was designed to prevent from happening.

They still haven't re-enacted it!

Jail the bankers for bribery in the form of campaign contributions because that is all a campaign contribution is. Where is our judicial branch?

Who is in charge of policing congress? Congress?

Who is in charge of policing lobbyists? Congress?

Who is in charge of writing laws regarding term limits and campaign contributions? Congress?

Who is in charge of the oversight and hearings involving the exact people that got them elected? Congress?

Conflict of interest maybe? We've got a problem.

One of the most frustrating parts of these payouts is that many of the actual workers within these banks are taking serious pay cuts. Evidently that money is supporting these figure heads! They say loan sharks are crooked!

May these greedy bastards and all who enable them to get these rediculous bonuses burn in hell for eternity. Nice headline next to the pictures and story coming in from Haiti where 80% of the poor people can't afford basic food and shelter from the elements. Talk about the hypocracy of it all. And these self-righteous egotistical asses sit there defending their actions. Yet, stupid stockholders and taxpayers, we have allowed these moronic pay packages to get this far out of hand. Don't give me any crap about paying top dollar to get qualified people. They get one pretty salary. If that isn't enough then let them move to some other country and suck of they idiots there. If no one allowed this kind of rape, these SOB's would work for a decent salary and shut up. I know of NO ONE who does several million dollars worth of work in a year's time. NO BODY.

I would like to know how they get off telling someone like me that got suckered into one of these bad mortgage, that they will get a bonus when we bailed them out and then they tell the american public that we will help you with your mortgage if you need it. I have a home with Citi and have one of those Variable rate at 6.75% and lost my job and used all my savings and 401K to save this house because I know how tough it is to get something with bad credit. So I contact them and ask if I can get it refinanced to a lower fixed rate and I am told that I need to be behind in my mortgage payment in order for them to look at helping me. Then I find out that if we had not bailed out the banks that each american could of had around $80000. Tell you what keep your money and just give me and my wife our $160000 and I ll pay off my house hows that. I have a good job now but am trying to play catch up and I am one of the lucky ones that does have a job so I don't want to come across as not caring at least didn't lose my house. ALL I REALLY WANT TO SAY IS QUIT LIEING TO US.

alan_static...... do you realize just how much money the lobbyist that represent the banking industry hand out to washington's two political parties ? And you really think that anything to correct the mess that the deregulated banking industry helped to create is going to take place with any . ?

Apply the treason clause of the Constitution; these guys did more damage to our nation than any previous traitor in our history. Seriously try a select few for treason; that would be just.

These guys took taxpayer money to bail them out of errors in ethics, morals and judgement. The money was intended to restart lending and to make the banks more stable. Instead of restarting lending or stabilizing their balance sheets, these CEO's have used the bailout money plus zero-interest loans (the intere4st is essentially paid by the taxpayer) to gamble even further with hugely leveraged and risky covers and hedges. They contend internally that it is okay because they are still too big to fail and that their actions are essentially guaranteed by the American taxpayer. And they do make huge profits and grant themselves huge bonuses and pats on the back (neglecting to mention that they caused the banking collapse in the first people.) In the meanwhile the econo0my languishes, unemployment rises, foreclosures continue to increase and the non-banking economy is generally in the crapper.

These people are guilty of treason by betraying the American citizens as a whole.

We probably need to take three steps very quickly. 1) Tax the crap out of these banks and investment houses for straying even an inch off the straight and narrow. This definitely included bonuses for continuing bad behavior and also includes penalty taxes for high risk or highly leveraged activities. 2) Break these guys up so that they are no longer too big to fail without dragging down the entire economy. and finbally, but maybe the most important 3) get rid of Geitner. This guy absolutely does not get it!

It was easy to see this coming down the road. Here in California an extremely low percentage of working people could even qualify for a loan. I was house shopping in Denver (Green Valley Ranch). A short talk to the loan people there and I was right out the door. An obvious pyramid game was in play.

The French invented a nice cure for this sort of behavior and used it extensively around 1789.

Soon enough these bank CEO's will be telling us to eat cake...

What did you expect them to do? Openingly admit they are crooks?I These people think they are entitled to huge salaries just because they are in charge. They don't have to successful and their companies can go broke but they still are entitled.

Cook 'em all, and cook the morons who defend them in the same pot.

I dare them to make these claims at a Town Hall meeting....anywhere.

Nice to see the ignorant are not looking the BIG PICTURE of this so-called "hearing".

Anyone else notice that they call the execs in front of Congress to give them a grilling the day before the President announce his Grand "Bank Fee"?

Let's get America's populace up in arms about those greedy bankers, so the Administration can pass a backdoor $120 billion dollar tax on Americans.

Most of the TARP losses are expected to come from auto industry rescues and the bail out of insurance conglomerate American International Group Inc.

See that Bank Fee is supposed to recover losses from TARP, but they are actually covering GM/GMAC & AIG.

Let's review some history. When AIG last year was to receive it's second round of stimulus money, wording was put into the deal to limit bonuses. That wording was removed by Chris Dodd, at the request of the Obama Administration.

This is nothing but the Administration throwing out it's left hand and hoping your are too dazzled and ignorant to watch what the right hand is doing.

Where do i get one of those FRIENDS OF ANGELO home loans like congress members gets?

In other words, there is fraud on a massive scale and no one is going to jail becuase everyone at the highest levels are in on the game. USA's rule of law is worthless, broken, forgotten, etc.

joeyfromcali

You are so correct, now since these greedy Bas_ards are now starting to jack the interest rates on card's won't this create the exact same problem, people won't be able to pay the card's down and leave the institutions with more bad debts and guess what they will go running back for another bailout, Oh but it's not going to be their fault they should have read the fine print right westbury64 people need to own up to the mess they created and are about to create don't go blaming people that put their trust in these greedy Bas_ards ....

there is NO defense other than greed. Obama is certainly not clean here as the only thing he has fixed in the economy is their salaries. He approved funneling the money to goldman because from an economic standpoint he is no more than a puppet of the goldman boys since he is clueless and they have instructed him how to handle things.

However, let's forget that as folks simply won't ever admit it. What we all agree upon is the greed that exists at Goldman and the goldman want a bee's. Let's order them to Hati and then see if they really NEED 5 million a year to live on. Better yet let's give them all 300 K for services rendered last year and send the rest to Hati.

Im not an advocate of violence but Im not sure what will send a message to these arrogant a$$ holes. They will never learn or change. Goldman Sachs is the devil. I worked for a company that was owned by them for years and know first hand how they practice business. They are corrupt and only find new ways of screwing people when they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar. These banks and large corporations are ruining free trade, the economy, and the overall morale of the country and should be held accountable. Its time we stop supporting them by giving them our business. If we dont, why would they change if there is no reason? If you want to do your part, boycott them and support the small business owners in your community. This is the only way we can make a difference since they own the government.

i also worked for a company they owned .... after they sucked it dry they sold it to suckers

Can someone supply typical mid-level salaries and bonuses for the banks? Is it 100K and 500K bonus, or 500K and 2MM bonus? I can't tell.

rmbscuba: It is you who needs to get the facts straight. The Community Reinvestment Act applied ONLY to depository institutions, which comprised only about 20% of the mortgage market. Furthermore, the CRA did NOT mandate making loans to unqualified buyers.

The irrefutable fact remains that this theft of American taxpayer dollars came at the hands of incredibly greedy pigs who were too stupid to understand their Ponzi Scheme - and that is exactly what it was, and frankly still is - would end.

That is the complete truth, and Geithner, Paulson, and the other facilitators should hang for it.

Furthermore, any state agency that was interested in pursuing this massive fraud was forbidden from investigating thanks to a law passed by a Republican Congress and signed by President George W. Bush.

Those are the facts, and you would be well-advised to limit your posting to things you understand. It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

What people are forgetting is that while all of the criminals aka bank CEO's admit to making mistakes that cost americans their livlihoods and robbed them of their futures. They continue to state that it was all perfectly legal. However, when the shortsellers were shorting their stocks into oblivion, Washington stepped in and put a moratorium on the shorts to keep them from bankrupting the banks, which according to our system is perfectly legal to do and exactly what the banks were doing to their mortgage backed securities.

The system is now so corrupt that the only way it will ever be made right is to erase these people from the face of the planet permanently!

I agree with the first comment. We spent millions if not billions for Sarbanes-Oxley which has penalties for falsifying financial documents. The law is there why is it not being enforced or was this a payoff to the Big Four Accounting firms so that they could pay back the judgments against them for selling tax shelters.

If you ask me the wrong people were up in Congress, start throwing the fear of god into the Boards of Directors who are getting paid a pretty penny for doing as little as they can. Sometimes I think that these hearings are like the Roman Circus, being held to amuse when they know that are not going to do anything to halt the campaign contributions.

Yes westbury64, the bankers developed the legislation that circumvented the regs that would have prohibited them from making the fraudulent transactions that collapsed our economy. It is a common practice for industry to write its own legislation, name the people who would have regulatory oversight, hand the bill to a legislator, and have him/her push it through. Simple as that. It happens every day. Again, the bankers caused greater damage to our economic system than any middle eastern terrorist could have dreamed of. The bankers have got to be arrested today and prosecuted as traitors.

Are these people really so foolish as to think the American people are so stupid as to believe their selfserving rhetoric!

You can't demand that these CEOs should go to jail, when it was our govt that passed laws that made it legal to do what they did. They gave the market free reign. Republicans are still defending the free market. What did we expect? Did we expect them to look out for america and it's people? Did we expect them to do what's best for humanity?

Greed feeds on power which feeds on greed which feeds on power...

Say hello and welcome to our democratic system and unregulated capitalism.

Wake up! America - our past and future's true enemy is as snug as a bug in america's rug and it's claws grow deep...and it has it's own misinformation network - Fox.

Say hello to our domestic enemy.

From the WSWS website:

Wall Street CEOs testify before financial crisis commission

By Andre Damon 14 January 2010

The testimony of four Wall Street CEOs Wednesday before a congressional commission of inquiry showed clearly where the power lies in America. The four men—Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs, James Dimon of JPMorgan Chase, John Mack of Morgan Stanley, and Brian Moynihan of Bank of America—were given free reign to equivocate, evade and lie. One of them, Blankfein, took the opportunity to shout down the committee chair.
The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission, which will hold additional hearings tomorrow, convened amid growing official nervousness that the announcement of year-end bank bonuses will provoke a popular backlash.
The origins, operations and personnel of the commission, as well as the timing of its first hearing, all expose the pretense that it represents a serious attempt to investigate the banks and present a serious explanation to the American people of the reasons for the financial crash that has had such devastating social consequences.
The commission was formed under a bill signed into law in May 2009, and has until December 15, 2010 to produce a report. The very fact that the commission has been in existence for eight months without holding any hearings or conducting any investigation points to its fraudulent character.
There is a reason for this unexplained delay. The commission was initially mandated by Congress to conduct a probe and make recommendations for legislation to reform the financial system. Instead, with the knowledge and support of Congress and the Obama Administration, it remained inactive, so that proposals for banking “reform” could be worked out behind closed doors between the White House, congressional leaders, and Wall Street executives and lobbyists.
There was a deliberate decision made not to hold hearings while the bank overhaul bills were being drawn up, and the government bailout had not yet led to a revival of the banks’ profits. This was to ensure that nothing would emerge publicly that would interfere with the joint efforts of the bankers and the government to fashion an “overhaul” that, in fact, does absolutely nothing to limit the speculative activities of the banks or the vast profits and bonuses which they reap from their parasitic operations.
As reported by the press in advance of Wednesday’s hearing, the commission itself has foresworn any effort to make recommendations on reforming the financial markets.
The timing of its first hearing underscores the commission’s real function—to defuse popular anger while carrying out a whitewash. It is hardly an accident that top bankers were brought to testify and be, according to the media, “grilled” on the eve of the release of year-end bonus figures.
The personnel of the commission are indicative of its token role. The chairman is a little-known politician. No one with any significant public following sits on the panel, and no respected economists were chosen.
Congress allocated a paltry $8 million for what was supposed to be a major inquiry. This is less than the combined amount spent by Citigroup, Morgan Stanley and Bank of America for lobbying during the first nine months of 2009.
In his opening remarks, the commission’s chairman, Phil Angelides, the former state treasurer of California, set the stage for Wednesday’s hearing, saying that “the most important task in front of us is to shed light, not heat; for us to take stock of what has happened and give a true accounting so the important work of restoring faith in our economic system can begin.”
In other words, the commission’s task was to restore credibility to the profit system. The prospect of holding anyone accountable was off the table.
After Angelides’ opening remarks, the floor was yielded to the four CEOs, who, one after the other, argued that the financial crisis was the product of a series of innocent miscalculations by bankers and regulators.
Goldman Sach’s Blankfein and his colleagues said that the best solution would be to introduce some minimal regulatory measures, while keeping intact the system that pays the financial elite billions of dollars in salaries, perks and bonuses.
The arrogance of the Wall Street barons and subservience of the government were fully on display. Each of the bankers praised his own company. JP Morgan’s Dimon declared, “Throughout the financial crisis, JPMorgan Chase never posted a quarterly loss, served as a safe haven for depositors, worked closely with the federal government, and remained an active lender.”
Moynihan observed that “we as an industry caused a lot of damage,” but he made no apology, either for his industry, his company, or himself.
The closest the humdrum affair came to a confrontation occurred when Angelides asked Goldman Sachs CEO Blankfein why his firm secretly betted against the mortgage-backed securities it packaged and sold into the market. Angelides compared Goldman’s actions to “selling a car with faulty brakes, and then buying an insurance policy on the buyer of that car.”
Blankfein was indignant at such effrontery. He raised his voice and repeatedly interrupted the commission chair. “We represent the other side of what people want to do,” said Blankfein, implying that if people bought toxic securities from Goldman, it was their own fault.
After this exchange, Angelides asked Blankfein, “Did you always disclose to every investor that you were taking contrary positions? Yes or no?” Blankfein blustered something incomprehensible, and Angelides timidly moved on. This became the procedure for any question Blankfein chose not want to answer.
Angelides later said he was “troubled” by Blankfein’s inability to answer basic questions about his firm’s activities. But since it was not his intention to make the Wall Street CEOs “say uncle,” as he put it, he accepted the banker’s evasions.
The basic argument of the four men was that they had no way of grasping the dangers inherent in the vastly inflated housing market. Dimon said his bank carried out internal “stress tests” of every possible adverse scenario. However, when asked whether he had considered the impact of a decline in housing values, he admitted that he had not.
The CEOs’ argument is worth considering. In the (unbelievable) event that they were being honest, their statements amounted to an admission of incompetence and recklessness that constitutes, at the very least, criminal negligence, and utterly undermines the claim that they and their fellow financial “wizards” are entitled, by virtue of their unique wisdom and talent, to astronomical pay checks.
In fact, their incompetence was combined with fraud on a gigantic scale, which brought their own firms and the US and world economies to the brink of collapse and precipitated an economic crisis that is consigning untold millions to unemployment, homelessness and poverty.

These guys have the nerve to sit there and admit they were guilty of believing their own BS. If you're that stupid, you're not qualified for your job. You failed! In some cultures the honorable thing to have done would be spilling your guts out on the floor of your office. But as the saying goes, "there's no honor amongst thieves."

They suggest that they might, in the future "discourage excessive risk taking." This is outrageous! We used to have banking laws that outlawed risk taking. Banks should be about savings and loans with regulations to prevent risk. Banking used to be about serving the country, not the world. These true banks deserve government backing. Investment firms are about taking risk, and the investor understands that it's a risk-reward equation. There should be no government backing for these, nor should the Fed do any business with them. The Fed was designed for the banks, not for traders.

If you listen to these guys, the answer is clear. Separate banking functions from investment functions like it used to be. If mortgages had essentially been kept in banking, you would never have seen risky mortgages.

Buying up mortgages by investment companies should only be permitted if the mortgagee agrees and at that, it should only be allowed if the buyer pays the mortgagee a cash sum to acquire his contract. All the original terms would apply and could not in any way be changed by the purchaser. This would have potentially prevented a lot of what we saw.

When we allowed banks and investment firms to combine, the investment firms essentially acquired government backing on all their assets. I believe the bulk of the business these "mega-banks" do is investing, not banking. But essentially they got government backing on everything. If they would have been separated, wealthy investors would have taken a hit, but not the average citizen, other than in their relatively meager investments.

We need to again, separate the functions. Confine the Fed to true banking. Let the FTC regulate the investment companies and if they want to form their own, self funded, (no tax dollars), equivalent of the Fed for all their inter company business, fine but it's with their own money. If we as citizens want to invest, we do that at our own risk. This is not impossible to unwind and as these companies are now profitable, all of the banking functions could be separated making them 100% whole. What's left belongs to investors.

I get so absolutely pissed reading this type of crap, members of the US govt telling these bankers about all their shady practices, financial mismanagement, and the damage they did to America. Pot, meet kettle...

Bill Karson excellent story thank-you!

The following is something the "powers that be" know:

The majority of Americans are very very stupid.

The following is something the "powers that be" know:

The majority of Americans are very very stupid.

Then the "powers that be" will certainly have the surprise of their lives, won't they?

If you and I do what these slime balls do we go to jail - its called fraud. Its time for people to realize that these companies are not businesses, but an oligopoly that controls your money - and manipulates it for personal adn shareholder profit. The have no real business, they usurped from the people the right to issue money in 1913, and now charge us massive fees to be the conduit through which we create our own money. tHE WORST PART IS THAt they get paid to do nothing whatsoever. The mint prints money, the government creates debt, all the bankers do is "approve" our debts and charge us a hefty fee to do this. For all you deniers out their, the fees to approve of your use of money last year were about 50% of every dollar you, me, everyone makes ... all to do nothing!

So that makes this statement:

Jamie Dimon, chief executive of JPMorgan Chase & Co., said most of his employees took "significant cuts in compensation" in 2008. He said his company would continue to pay people in a "responsible and disciplined manner" to attract and retain top talent.

completely ridiculous - even a RETARDED BABOON COULD MAKE MONEY IN A BUSINESS WHERE NOT ONLY DO YOU HAVE ZERO COST OF PRODUCTION, CONTROL OVER THE FEES, UNLIMITED DEMAND AND SUPPLY, AND EVEN BETTER, THE ABILITY TO CREATE AS MUCH MONEY AS YOU NEED AT ANY TIME! (no offense to anyone who is developmentally challenged by being compared to Bankers .... )

So either these guys are stupider than said primates, or they are lying crooks who think we are stupider than the baboons .... wonder which it is??

Simple solution to this problem. Acknowledge that banks are basically a Post office for money distribution. Place all compensation and activities under Federal supervision like the Postal Service. No need for bonuses at all then ....

David Walker - I see how you took the opportunity to blame Bush, but remember, Bill Clinton signed the law repealing Glass-Steagall and enabling depository banks to become investment banks. Both parties, congress and the last 3 presidents are all culpable for causing this mess.

Bill Karson - Thank you for posting!

They should pay whatever they want and we should NOT bail them out next time. Let them live with their mistakes. The problem was the government getting involved and now they can get involved in these industries.

Exactly! Let the free markets run! No FED. No FDIC. No government intervention to the economy. It is not governments job to ceate jobs or to build industries. Government needs to make sure law and order is there and then step back and let people conduct their business. FED should stop messing with interest rates. The crash is their making. They kept rates low for decades. This made the people think the cost of borrowing is less. Thus they did borrow. But, the cost is much greater than they thought. Most of us will go bankrupt. Here is the debt problem created by the FED:

http://www.tradingstocks.net/html/inflation_deflation_credit_bub.html

The "Fed", as in Federal Reserve, is a private company and not part of our government. It should be, though.

They should pay whatever they want and we should NOT bail them out next time. Let them live with their mistakes. The problem was the government getting involved and now they can get involved in these industries.

I am not a fan, but what would the current recession be like if we didn't bail out these banks?

You think 10% unemployment is high? I am willing to bet that if our govt let all of these banks, automakers, etc fail, then we'd be looking at 50% unemployment.

Small business loans would halt. Consumer loans would halt.

Financial insitutions would either file bankruptcy or settle existing obligations and tie up all of their assets in doing so.

Let the free markets run!

There is no such thing, nor should there be.

Free market capitalism is a utopian philosophy which in practical application never exist.

Instead, we end up with a perverted economic structure which simply rewards wealth and power, and functions based on the worst of mankind's traits (greed, a sin by the way for those religious folks out there).

Government needs to make sure law and order is there and then step back and let people conduct their business.

Where do you get this from, huh? Heck, can you site where in the Constitution, Articles of the Confederacy, Bill of Rights, anywhere, where it mandates a free market capitalist philosophy as a means and ideology by which the best interests of the NATION should be governed?

There is a whole lot more to life than money, except for the greedy pukes defending their excesses.

It would take the average American worker LIFETIMES to make what some of these pukes make in a BONUS.

I do not advocate a system where we are compensated the same, but I do suggest that there should be some semblence of morality and restraint.

These CEOs lose nothing. They have already made multi-millions. They could not work another day in their lives, and still not worry about mortgages, kids going to college, etc etc etc. The rest of us, we end up supporting their exhorbitant lifestyles.

Jerry,

You must do great at Vegas because you are great at predicting what "would have" happened if we didn't bail out the banks. Maybe, just maybe, the banks would have failed, someone would have stepped in a bought up the remaining assets, and we would have moved on. We will never know what WOULD HAVE happened if we didn't bail out the banks. What we do know is....the government has their foot in the door, and that's never a good thing.

The bank bailout was unconstitutional. We need everybody who voted for it to step down from office because under USC section 242 the are all criminals:

Article 1, Section 9, paragraphs 7&8:

No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State.

Very nice Jerry, finally someone with wits on Newsvine.

Westbury, think about it. If the banks failed, someone would step in to buy the assets? Who do you suppose would step in and buy bad assets that was responsible for bankrupting the wealthiest organizations in the country???? Here, I'll chip in $20, now only $699,999,999,980 more to go.

That is as dillusional as these bankers who actually think they are worth that much to society. The guy who cooked my pizza at lunch is worth more than these lousy scumbags.

Then you can aspire for your children to work at Dominos.

westbury64 you stated this > What we do know is....the government has their foot in the door, and that's never a good thing.

I happen to like the idea of our Government doing more than keeping law and order. If the government never stepped in we would not have the Highways we do have now we would not have the water we have now. Electrical power plants like the Hoover DAM ect. ect.

So yes at times the government needs to step in and get stuff rolling. Welfare no I am not a fan. But some federal spending and oversight is necessary

westbury64 I forgot something I would be more proud of my child working at an honest job like dominos. And just getting by. Than to be a corporate sellout to the rest of my countrymen.

Aspiring to be wealthy at the expense of others is foul at best. One day before these types die. They will realize it and I hope suicide is painless at best. Think of how one would feel realizing they sold thier soul for a few more bucks. One things for sure you cant take it with you.

Thieves think taking stuff at any means is easy. Until they face the price even if never caught. Kinda like the CEO's

"The bankers — whose companies collectively received more than $100 billion in taxpayer assistance to weather the crisis — offered no regrets for executive pay that is now likely to increase as a result of their survival."

Does anyone else think that before the government gave them more than $100 Billion OF TAXPAYER MONEY that the government should have DICTATED the terms of their pay?

Let them live with their mistakes. The problem was the government getting involved and now they can get involved in these industries.

The problem with that is that EVERYONE in America, in fact, the world has to pay for their mistakes greed. Systemic risk is a serious PITA.

Oh and F/F didn't even get involved until late 2006 early 2007, that was after the peak of the credit bubble. The credit bubble created by gamblers at these banks and those that rated these securities triple A when they hadn't a clue should be thrown in jail for fraud and AIG execs as well.

The "insurance " they provided didn't cover squat and didn't even qualify as insurance according to New York .legislation.

If we let the free markets run, they will "pay" for running their companies to the ground. Bailout is a mistake. It is not fair to take tax payer money and give to some people so that they can continue their blood sucking jobs.

If we let the free markets run, they will "pay" for running their companies to the ground

The only ones who pay are the lower and middle clas workers who lose their jobs. These CEOs and their millions pay for nothing.

Free market? Oh, you mean the pseudo-capitalist feudal system that your "free market" ideology results in?

It is Free for them and a burden for everyone else. Competition is for suppliers not producers. There are so many hypocritical people in this mess that it is astonishing. When ever anyone tells you some of this free market "thinking" look at it very carefully, you have to see the truth or else you will become a victim of the lies.

John F Kennedy started printing United States money and the bankers and chicken hawk war profiteers had him killed. Look at the autopsy pictures, he was shot at least once from the front. Anybody that has more money in the bank than the $20k FED insurance limit should have it frozen until they can prove it was not ill gotten gain. No money should be able to enter this counrty from a foreign bank until they can prove it is not ill gotten gain. Bradley Birkenfeld should be released from jail today this hour. Ill gotten gain is when you lobby for war and profit from war. Ill gotten gain is when you get money from the FED and give yourselves bonuses right off the top. I'll gotten gain is when you lobby the US government to enact a sickness and death for profit health care scam and rake in millions by denying people the health care they paid for, let alone have compassion and care for people with out money because you rapped and pillaged every last dollar.

Ken,

You've put up a pretty good fight so far, until this:

John F Kennedy started printing United States money and the bankers and chicken hawk war profiteers had him killed. Look at the autopsy pictures, he was shot at least once from the front.

If you knew anything about ballistics, you would know that your statement is a false nature. Lee Harvey Oswald did the job all by his lonesome and THAT is why there is a conspiracy. How can one little insignificant person topple the most powerful person in the world all by himself?

Now this part of your post does make sense:

Ill gotten gain is when you lobby for war and profit from war. Ill gotten gain is when you get money from the FED and give yourselves bonuses right off the top. I'll gotten gain is when you lobby the US government to enact a sickness and death for profit health care scam and rake in millions by denying people the health care they paid for, let alone have compassion and care for people with out money because you rapped and pillaged every last dollar.

dear dallas dude, actually it is more like selling someone a candy bar laced with cyanide and then buying life insurance on them naming yourself as the beneficiary. i thought that there was something in the law about not being able to profit from your crime. I guess, if the crime is big enough and involves enough important people, it is ok to go unpunished and to walk away a multimillionaire. if it wasn't actually true, it sure would sound cynical!!!

It is not a conspiracy to say JFK was shot from the front. Ballistics be where a bullet makes a small hole going in and a large hole going out. Some SS or CIA NWO person used a pocket knife to slice on JFK's forehead to hide the entry wound. Watch the film close not the edited reworked parts. They, NWO have said things like you said for over 40 years now about JFK murder RObWI, you say the word ballistics and then you go right to the lone gunman as if there are somehow facts in between. Please explain the magic bullet to me again since you are a ballistics expert. Actually it does not matter if they killed Kennedy as much as what they did afterword, destroyed real US money and kept the FED, escalated a war so they could profit on and on and they needed Kennedy dead to do their greedy evil. When all of the Bush's are dead except for a trust fund baby here and their we will find out who killed JFK.

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/Issues_and_evidence/Frontal_shot(s)/Tobias_frontal_shots/Tobias--Ballistics_Findings.html

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=john+f+kennedy+autopsy+photos&FORM=IGRE1#focal=0604cb703ea9d8bc9446482c95c0b840&furl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.americancivilrightsreview.com%2Fautopsy2.jpg

And don't say this is off topic until you study the FED.

If we let the free markets run, they will "pay" for running their companies to the ground. Bailout is a mistake.

so will millions of innocent people. ...Brilliant! /sarcasm/

Why charge them? Who gave them the tax payer money? Charge those who said yes!

Why charge them? Who gave them the tax payer money? Charge those who said yes!

Usury isn't a crime? These guys are legal loans sharks.

I guess they see what the Insurance Company & attorneys are ding and figures they have the right to do it too!!!

They were the cause of the break down in this country... Between the credit cards, loans on homes & selling of the stocks... That is what make the mess here!!!

Yeah, it's all their fault that people maxed out their credit cards, bought houses they couldn't afford and needed two cars in the driveway on a $35k per year salary. How dare the big, bad bankers deny people the right to live beyond their means.

It's their fault they created over $900 trillion in artificial "goods" when the economy of the entire Earth is only $65 trillion. That is what led to this fiasco. How is it possible to pay out more in bonuses than your company earns in a year? Where else but in the banking industry can that happen? Regulation is going to have to be the answer to this problem because banks won't self regulate and we the people are powerless to make them stop. It's a system whereby the rich make each other richer. That money has to come from somewhere, and that's you and me. Be careful in your backing of these gangsters.

Well, I guess if those home owners had gotten bonuses like the wall street execs, then they would have been able to pay for their house. What is the alternative?? To throw away rent money every month on an apartment that is probably owned by one of those greedy wall street execs?

Yeah, it's all their fault that people maxed out their credit cards, bought houses they couldn't afford and needed two cars in the driveway on a $35k per year salary. How dare the big, bad bankers deny people the right to live beyond their means.

Right, it has nothing to do with the fact middle class wages have stagnated for decades while executive compensation has skyrocketed, right?

These pukes think that the lower end of their organizations are nothing more than modern day serfs devoted only to inflating their own bottom lines, at the expense of the serfs.

Apparently you're dumb enough to defend this perversion of some textbook philosophy.

So you believe that entry level bankers are like "serfs"??? If the pay was so terrible then why do people spend thousands of dollars getting educated to get into banking. All you people are just whiners and finger pointers. It's either the insurance executives, the bankers, the greedy doctors, the wall street employees, etc., etc., etc......It's everyone else's fault but "the little guy", because they are all just so perfect. Never living beyond their means or lying on mortgage applications or slacking off at work....

You people need to get a grip.

westbury - It was greed on Wall Street that led to the economic collapse in 2008, not the little guys.

Nothing like that catch all phrase "greed" to explain everything that went wrong. Do you consider it greedy for a person earning $35k a year to purchase a $350k house?

Wow....I think we have a banking executive in our midst.

This guy freqently stalks most of the comments section on this site and I see a trend of him disagreeing with the majority. He must not have a job with all that free time. Oh right....probably retired off all that bonus money while other hard working american's struggle to find a job or to pay their bills with prices skyrocketing. Or maybe he is sitting in his lavish office while the rest of the workers do his work for him.

When I don't agree with someone, yes, I am willing to debate the issue. I see another of the catch phrases in your response... the lazy rich person living off the hard working little guy. I would venture to guess that most executives of any kind work far more hours than the typical "little guy". If it is so easy to sit back and live off the little guy why doesn't everyone do it. Perhaps some people prefer the 9 to 5 with no stress while others are willing to put in the 80 hour weeks and constant stress. That's a decision each person makes as to quality of life but please stop that tired old talking point of rich people being lazy slackers living off the little guy.

PS - It's kind of pathetic that you remember me from other vines and are familiar with what I comment on.

Ah, I see. You are just rich and better than everybody else. Explains it all.

No, not pathetic...just irritating that your frequent comments annoy people so much that it detracts away from the more constructive comments and wastes my time having to wade through your BS.

west-go back and read the article-it is pretty self explanatory. Read it more carefully this time.

You are wrong for sticking up for them and they pretty much admit the problem started with them. We could have been in another great depression because of wall street.

You should look up the ARM rates and the unscrupulous brokers that sold them. The brokers made more money selling ARm mortgages then a fixed rate.

You can blame the little guy-but those banks and brokers knew exactly what they were doing. $$$$$$$$ for them, the street for the home owner.

You also fail to take into consideration the folks that lost their jobs and the banks refused to work with them. SOOO-the banks got stuck with alot of empty houses.

NW,

I venture to guess that you consider "constructive" comments to be ones you agree with.

sigh....you are hopeless.

Yeah, I'm just so hopeless because I'm not smart enough to understand your argument, which obviously is universally accepted as correct.

The financial corporations have hired lobbyists just to post comments on blogs and discussion boards. Their power reaches everywhere.

westbury64 must be one of these.

Lobbyists are not elected officials and do not work in the best interest of the taxpayers. It is the Politicians that do and your continued confusing of who is accountable to the taxpayers is every politicians dream.

Nothing like that catch all phrase "greed" to explain everything that went wrong. Do you consider it greedy for a person earning $35k a year to purchase a $350k house?

Absolutely that's greed. And envy. But as has been pointed out above, the salary of the lower tier workers has been stagnant for years. When real estate, consumables, utilities all rise annually, yet your source of revenue provides the same salary, you're pretty much screwed. I am fortunate I am not in that position, but on a daily basis I see workers who are trapped in a career where their salary will barely increase. Anyone who cannot see that going on around them is either intentionally missing it or are simply elitists. Just simple facts like a percentage based salary review: if you're making $100K your 5% is going to go a heck of a lot further than if you're someone making $35K. Yet their healthcare, gas, etc expenses rise at an equal pace.

Therefore the greed comes right back at the companies who employ those workers making $35K. And those companies are dictated to that salary expense needs to remain low in order to achive profitability to support their stock prices. And who dictates that to the employers..... come on you know the answer..... yup we're right back to square one: Wall St.

Westbury64
Nothing like that catch all phrase "greed" to explain everything that went wrong. Do you consider it greedy for a person earning $35k a year to purchase a $350k house?

Well lets see how did these people qualify for that $350K home? Is it not the responsibilityof the Financial institution to qualify them first, and if there was going to be an increase in the interest rate would the Financial institute not realize that they would not be able to pay the loan, see you are trying to spin the responsibility, the financial institution could have declined the loan and just said you don't qualify for a $350K home but you can get a $175K home, so how can it not be their fault.... They qualified the applicant for a $350K home ..

westbury needs to check in the derivatives market and see how other things led to the banking crisis. Some have been mentioned, like predatory lending. It is not just about someone defaulting on a mortgage, much more complex. Banking industry is highly culpable. So are plenty of others, but most of the blame can be laid right at their door. Why are republicans (my assumption) so quick to blame joe blow and give the real culprits a pass? Really. You have no problems with multi million dollar payoffs to the top, yet you bitch and moan about union wages, etc. What gives? Nobody is worth that much money. Nobody.

lib50

You're so right, but to come up with something that could bring a country to it's knee's just can't be done by the everyday people ..... LOL LOL LOL LOL

I would venture to guess that most executives of any kind work far more hours than the typical "little guy".

ROFLMAO!!!! Yeah right! Executives don't work kiddo. They take other people's money. Those people belong to 1 of two groups:

the people who actually did the labor

or ...as in this case,

investors money. ....and they gambled it away.

It's almost as if they are want things to get worse, to sabotage the economy.

"they" do want things to get worse...."they" want to squeeze every last dollar out of the US and keep the general public so scared of their future that no one will take a stand and organize.......and once done they will move onto other more porfitable markets like China etc....the corporations are getting away with murder and lucky for them they bought up the politicians in time to ensure they would not be held accountable....

and for what? Karma does catch up.......I only wish I could see it when it does!

These are the same People that put Their money in a Swiss Bank instead of Ours!!! That way they don't have to pay taxes on it & won't have a chance to lose it in a crash!!!

can anybody tell me why do we need the federal reserve, why cant our own congress have the power to print money? how was money circulating before the federal reserve came into play???

if we could focus more into learning about the federal reserve system instead of stupid @ss obama who's nothing but a remote controlled clown like every other president, we would have a more clear view of who politicians really work for and why we are where we are... its true what they say "follow the money trail and you'll see where it leads"...

The worse thing about it is... They are making money off the money we gave to them... Then they use the profits to pay it back!!!

Where did you hear that, on Keith Oberman?

if the goverment had given the money to the people in stead of the banks the people would haveprobably for the most part paid off there debt and the banks would have been saved with out the presidents help

Bushisover messed up becasue he did not know to write Zionists instead of Jews. There is a big difference. Zionists made the Havara deal with Hitler: http://www.codoh.com/incon/inconhaa.html Also Zionist bankers in the US did nothing but make money while their Jewish brothers and sisters were being exterminated.

nmbg

OTC Derivatives are still being trading in the dark and the financial lobbyists want to keep it that way. The financial lobbyists have bought and paid for most of our US legislators. The American people are sick and tired of this crap.

You ask about a hostile climate for business but what about a hostile climate for American citizens?

I agree it is pretty poor when a government has to rescue their people from free enterprise on steroids (what you call socialism). Spin things if you want but the times are a changing.

People defaulting on their mortgages didn't cause this mess, so you have no valid point. People are defaulting now because of the economy. The "witch hunt" as you call it is happening because the American populace is outraged at being sacked by these financial "institutions" and ready to revolt. Our politicians know this and don't want to risk their glorious jobs so they're poking and prodding the executives, hoping it will be enough to get us to vote for them. That has nothing to do with any so-called "socialist agenda", which is a non-existant Repug talking point.

What's the purpose of prolonging the witch hunt, a year and a half later? We already know that the government's mandated left wing ideology in the private sector forced lenders to make risky loans that they would never have made otherwise.

Wow. Some people say ignorance is bliss, I would suggest instead ignorance is just another word for stupidity.

First, how many banks did you hear screaming about writing more loans backed by govt guarantees? Try NONE.

Did the govt mandate that brokers and banks write no-doc, no income verification loans. The answer, a resounding NO.

Are subprime loans the only loans defaulting currently? While the answer is that a majority are, it does not constitute the entirety of the problem.

Is there anything that forced lending institutions to raised APR's as high as they did? ABSOLUTELY NOT. They caused many of these foreclosures simply through their own greed. And the "smart" institutions like Goldman bet against many of these loans.

And one of the bank execs in this very article acknowledges their biggest mistake was that housing values would continue to climb at the artificially created rate of increae due to the easy money. So how can you solely blame Fannie and Freddie?

The bottom line is this. The banks were betting that as long as home prices rose at the rate they were, they could continue to assume huge risk, assuming a certain rate of default, because the value of the collateral (property) would be enough to offset the loss on the loan. Brokers made money writing more and more loans, banks made out on closing costs, etc.

But when people started lose their jobs, all hell broke loose.

Jerry,

Ask yourself this, would the banks have made these risky loans if they were not being guaranteed by Freddie and Fannie? I would venture to guess no. So who is truly to blame for getting this mess started???

Wow, the socialists are out in full force today.

It all comes down to government interference in private industry, which is why the witch hunt continues. The latest congressional proceedings are nothing but a classic class warfare, cover-your-ass sham.

WEst--

all those loans were not guaranteed by Freddie and Fannie. A ton of those loans were bundled up and sold to banks in England, China, Germany and France. Remember when all hell broke loose how many of those banks collapsed too..

Also subprime is not necessarily low income. I know plenty of people who were high earners that got those crazy interest only loans.

NMB and West-Didyou read the article??? I don't think so. Go back and read the article. You are way off base.

kb,

I never mentioned anything about low income. Rich and poor are equally capable of living beyond their means.

Ted,

Should I just cut and paste the article or can I present my own opinion?

I'll say it slow. Go -----back----and---read---the ----article. Then make an opinion based on facts. Thanks

I've already stated my opinion. You seem to think there is some universally agreed upon cause for the meltdown. I form my own opinion and don't simply believe what I am told. Do you change your opinion everytime an article comes out stating a different cause for the meltdown?

West-

I understand what you are saying about income levels. But you seem to infer that the lower income people could not afford to buy. (like your ex of 35k buying 500k house). In reality people making 35-40k were buying houses in the 100-140k range, because the payments were just about what they were paying for rent. But a lot of people got flat out suckered into ARMS and 80/20 splits because A) they were first time buyers and had ZERO experience and B) the brokers that sold them got paid more to push those types of loans.

Why did they push these types? Because they got paid more upfront and they were banking on the person coming back before the reset to REFI--so they can make even more money.

The redistribution of wealth is going on ok. The top 5% of Americans saw their income rise over the last 30 years while the bottom 50% of Americans saw their income go down over the last 30 years.

There is a lot a spinning going on here by the financial lobbyists. But most of the comments here want to put bankers in jail or worse. They are spinning for their lives and scared to death. Don't feel sorry for them, we need to push the knife in as far as we can and then twist it.

People are sick and tired of lobbyists and spin.

Kb,

I agree, read my post # 24.8

knight,

Once again your anger is misdirected.

.

nmbg

That's why the government needs to make regulations so this type of crises can't happen, no one was watching these people now look what has happened ..

knight-403465

Here they are called paid Bloggers .....

Brian 371707

Why should their bonuses be limited to 25% of their Salary? You too are barking up the wrong tree.

Let's look at this whole thing:

Their Company is doing so well, so our Government gives them a boat load of money (our Money) with no rules on how to use it. Who's at fault? Anyone with any common sense would say the Government.

The failing Financial Institution who is paying huge bonuses should be allowed to fail. If things where tough, I bet the board of directors wouldn't sign a contract with a CEO for all that Bonus Money.

And the final piece is the consumer. If you don't like their service or product, don't buy it. And if enough people are pissed off about their salaries and don't buy their product or service, they'll be allowed to fail on their own. Opps! Unless the Government steps in.

In case you haven't noticed, our Government has absolutely ZERO success at running anything. One needs no more evidence than this past year.

Your blame should be directed at the great big dysfunctional trailer park know as the White House filled with greedy Politicians (Both Parties) who spend worse than a drunken sailor. Because they are spending your money. And when they need more for their spending habits, they just raise your taxes.

You are right when you talk about imprisonment. Now this is an area I wouldn't mine seeing my tax dollars at work. A nice cozy place for our trustworthy Politicians.

So, because we didn't tell them exactly how to use the money, they have no moral or ethical responsibility for it? Are you insane? How can you support these greedy bastards? This is the one problem with Capitalism - people are greedy pigs.

Be careful Oh Great. Using common sense gets you labeled as a socialist liberal in this forum.

Well said .....

Westbury64......No credit cards, all paid off. No mortgage payments. Car within one year of being paid off. Deal in cash only.

That's how you speak with your wallet. The other whiners are all hypocrites, quick to run to the banks when the next "hot" car hits the market or take out the credit card to impress the neighbors.

Not only should you stop using credit cards when possible, but you should move your money to a local bank or credit union. I did.

west, you just don't get it. Most of us realize that we will no longer be able to own a car. It will be a mobile home and a bicycle.

The general public has nothing to do with these institutions. They only deal with the rich, that's why we're powerless to do anything meaningful to them. We can pull all of our pitiful savings from the big national banks and it will mean absolutely nothing to them. Repugs talk about Dems using taxes to take from the rich and give to the poor, but the truth is that these institutions have been migrating money from the poor and middle class for years. The gap between the haves and have nots in this country is widening at an amazing rate and the "conservatives" have got you convinced that it's completely your fault. People make stupid choices that affect themselves, but "the system" is set up to make the vast majority lose out.

Oh COME ON westbury64!! Get a grip. Do you really think even if half of us stop putting our money in banks, stop using credit cards, and stop buying goods, that the bank execs are going to learn their lesson? What about all of the small businesses that are the backbone of this country? How do they start their businesses...bank loans. Doing all those things is just going to make it harder on ourselves in the long run. Life is only so long (if you are lucky) and there is never going to be a united front in the US...there NEVER will be and we all know it. What about those people that don't own a home and don't have debt and ride a bike to work? Are they hipocrites because they were laid off? You are so critical of other people and your assumptions are insulting.

Calm down NW, I know you came here to blame everyone else for the problems in this country so I'm sorry to disrupt the lynch mob mentality.

west-nw is correct. You are insulting. You ASSUME to know all about everything. The article states they admit the downfall. You refuse to see the whole picture about the downfall and continue to blame it on the home owners. It was the swaps and the bets. Did you read the comment about selling a car with no brakes and then buying insurance on the car? Go back and READ the article. This is not a lynch mob mentality. But you should really open that closed mind and see the whole picture.

Sorry if I offended you, but you look through a very small window. And it is YOU who is blaming everyone else except for laying the blame on wall street which has admitted to a great part in it..

No Ted, I lay the blame at the feet of EVERYONE involved instead of cherry picking the "bad guys". I blame the politicians who pushed for lax lending requirements, I blame the borrowers for taking advantage of the lesser requirements knowing full well they couldn't afford it, I blame the banks for getting carried away with the fact that they could make all these easy loans and I blame Wall Street for turning these loans into investment packages. I blame EVERYONE, not just the people who the politicians want to blame.

For you to say this was caused by "the swaps and the bets" is both simplistic and insulting.

Go------back-------and-------read--------the------article. Thanks

So you believe that everyone else is a victim and the "swaps and bets" caused everything? If they didn't do the "swaps and bets" everything would be just fine?

west,

I can almost appreciate some of your posts. However, you are stubbornly sticking to your claims as to how, exactly, the blame should be distributed. This is merely your opinion. Many, here, disagree with you. You go on and on about all those who had a hand in this mess. And rightfully so, to an extent. But , the article quotes the banks CEO's and they are taking alot of the responsibility for this failure. Seems to me, that it's hard to dispute these quotes. Unless, of course, you know more than these CEO's. You see, the banks were in control, no matter what. It was their money and their business. They chose what to do. For that, it lays at their feet. No matter who contributed. The banks seems to have quit pointing fingers. Although now, it seems they have you to do their bidding.

Of course they've quit pointing fingers, they are sitting in front of a Congress that can regulate them in any way that they wish. They are trying to save their butts by being contrite. As for what I say being "merely my opinon", I thought that was the purpose of these vines. However, people like you seem to be so offended that I have a different opinion.

No, we are offended that you feel the right to take this article and twist it into something that supports your presumptuous assumptions about people. You seem to do that with a lot of articles and it offends and pisses people off to be subjected to your "holier-than-thou" opinion. You may as well walk down the street and @!$%# on your neighbors, that's how you support your countrymen.

West: You say these banks made these bad loans because they knew they could sell them to Freddy and Fanny. So that make it right? Giving bad loans because they knew they could dump them? I don't see the good in that, or good business practice either.

westbury64,

you are the first person, on any of these vines, that shares my opinion. CRA passed under carter then tweaked under clinton made it possible for unqualified people to get loans that they would not have qualified for otherwise. the banks do have some culpability in this but the majority of the anger should be towards politicians who regualte this industry. the banks and the consumers are only playing by the rules that the federal government has passed. so in review the government started this mess and then they come to the rescue to fix it with tarp (which was another debacle) and now the massive centralized federal government in washington is telling us that they now need to regulate pay to fix it. the next thing to happen will be that qualified ceo's will quit and unqualified people will be appointed by the government to run the banks. this is all about putting power into the hands of washington.

5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

the fifth pillar of communism!!! this is where we are headed people.

west,

You are entitled to your opinion. I am not offended. However, you seem to have the need to read between every line and become the "all knowing person". In doing so, "it's people like you" (as you so eloquently put it), that seem to miss the point, entirely. Again, I say this responsibilty lays at the banks own feet. It was in their control. They made their decisions. If the banks choose to mete out these huge bonuses again. It only reiterates this fact. It does not go both ways. We all pay when we are short sighted. Even the banks. Of course, this is my humble opinion.

Never mind.

Westbury is one of those people who only see what they want to see and disregard everything else. Some people just don't get it. Maybe the issues are too complex, and they just skip over that part, I don't know. Sure seem to be a lot of people defending the corporate elite, yet they are the first to bash the average American. It makes me think industries have posters on the message boards.

westbury64

Well I guess you can get your Paycheck cashed without paying a fee, you think these banks did not move society to a cashless society by sheer luck, how are you going to pay your bills send cash in the mail, get a grip on reality the banks know that people can't just drop them, Do you work for these guys ?????? I bet you do because you spend way to much time on this blog and I've never seen you here before .... Has anyone seen this guy blog here before?

Westbury, it is obvious that you do not let facts interfere with your opinions

Yes westbury64, the bankers developed the legislation that circumvented the regs that would have prohibited them from making the fraudulent transactions that collapsed our economy. Lots of citations above. It is a common practice for industry to write its own legislation, name the people who would have regulatory oversight, hand the bill to a legislator, and have him/her push it through. Simple as that. It happens every day. Again, the bankers caused greater damage to our economic system than any middle eastern terrorist could have dreamed of. The bankers have got to be held responsible and prosecuted as traitors. From your posts you seem to be one of the very few who are compelled to rationalize the role the bankers played in this catastrophy. Why? The bankers exhibit the worst in human behavior. That kind of behavior is generally referred to sociopathic.

west

I'm sorry that you don't think the financial lobbyists have anything to do with this. You are wrong.

Why are there 6 financial lobbyists for every member of Congress.

Goldman Sachs gave bonuses of $575,000 per employee.

I think low levels, high level, anyone who works in an unproductive enterprise such as a bank will eventually face a loss. The economy sent the message. These banks are supposed to be bankrupt. Our government kept them alive at the expense of other people. Their practices, at this scale, are not sustainable. They will face a loss not because they are evil. But because what they are doing is not sustainable on the long run. Banks create money out of thin air, give it out as a loan and demand interest for it.

http://www.tradingstocks.net/html/banks_create_money.html

While it may sound like a grand scheme to rob people, it only ensures widespread bankruptcy. Because to keep the ponzi scheme running, borrowing must increase exponentially. It will not. The banks will be bankrupt again. Unless their chief Bernanke keeps printing money to give to them sending us all to the poor house.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/if-government-wont-break-giant-banks-lets-do-it-ourselves

Spread the word. Ordinary people do matter.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/if-government-wont-break-giant-banks-lets-do-it-ourselves

Spread the word, please. No more feeling helpless. There is something we can do and it's quite simple.

treat them like terrorists..they are both no good degenerate scum...