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The economy is rebounding from its deepest slump since the 1930s, but it probably won't seem that way when the government releases its monthly employment report on Friday.
I thought the porkulus package was supposed to keep this from happening. What gives?
Also, didn't the government promise us they would handle this? What's going on? Oh great ones in DC, make it go away!!!
#1 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:27 AM ESTRemember the playbook:
"Blame Bush"
Seems to be the catch-all phrase for the administrations failures...
Unemployment seen nearing 10 percent
Nearing 10%?
Unemployment as of this beautiful Friday, November 6 morning is at (drumroll please).....
10.2%!
Alright Obamapologsts. Lets hear the spin on how great Obama is doing on the economy again.
Did you hear the white house just issued this statement:
"Um.. Let me make this very clear for you... 10.2% is still.... 8% for our administration because the 1.2million Job losses were under Bush Administration's Last three months during which I was in Transition" B.H.O
:)
This insanity must stop; yesterday market up , UN-employment news good, today UN-employment news bad; we are being played for fools, by a foolish media, government and corporate spin misters; Things are getting worse, all the money thrown away, all the hype, cannot stop the hemorrhage.
The only thing to cure our Ill's is More middle class jobs, real jobs, not service industry jobs, flipping burgers. Wake up you idiot politicians, it may already be to late.
Way to go Obama!!! Now just get that Health Care Bill passed and pass Cap & Trade and America will be totally destroyed!!! Mission Accomplished!!
Demand Term Limits on Congress now!!!
Now that the economy is officially in the toilet, all we need is ObamaCare and Cap and tax to pull the handle.
10.2%. What a great time to pass a health insurance bill that will show no benefits of any kind for over three years, during which time taxes will rise across the board for it anyway. And then there's Cap and tax which will increase the cost of everything on TOP of the ObamaCare taxes.
Are you Obamapologists starting to get it yet? Whatever Pappy-O is doing... it ain't working.
Well, it is change!!
Cookie, do not want miracles, but 10 months is enough time to stop the bleeding, especially with the oney that was spent.
Cookie
Defend the stimulus. Did Bush screw the pen up that Obama used to sign it?
Thanks Bush, eventually we will pull out of Bush's Recession and this great American economy will bounce back, maybe even with some help from the taxpayer.
LOL! Unemployment will continue to rise and next year when it surpasses 12 or even 14 percent ol' kookie here will still be blaming Bush and kneeling and praying to wall posters of Daddy-O.
Some people are so drunk on the kool-aid they will NEVER snap out of thier stupor.
Kookie. If you think none of this is Obama's fault you are too far gone to bother with. So far all you've done is prove everyone on here correct that said you Obamapologists would still try to blame this on Bush. Too funny. Obama supporters have become their own punchline.
The number of jobless Americans continues and continues to grow...so what have our politicians done ??? Why, of course, spend the great majority of the past 4 to 5 months in endless debate over dubious and conflicting plans to "change" the nation's health care system...whether the tax-paying public wants it or not.
These are supposed to be the people we pay and trust to do what is needed to navigate the nation's ship when storm clouds threaten. That's money and effort well mis-spent.
Thanks...for nothing.
Let's face it, the stimulus has failed at least for the past year results. The US is further in debt, Cars for Clunkers was never about the environment, but rather about saving union jobs at $24k per auto, Obama can't decide what to do in Afghanistan, Iran is laughing at us, militant and leftist greenies are controlling our future, health care reform is being jammed down our throats.
And still, yes still, you idiots think it is President Bush's fault. Why don't you liberal, leftist face your own failures and accept the fact that money and inexperience can not solve the major problems or today.
Cookie- it really is quite immature to keep blaming others for YOUR failure, whether in your life or barrys' admin. Not becoming.
The insanity of having "leadership" from barry, nancy, harry or barney will be debated for generations as in, what in the world happened. We collectively lost our minds. I hope it is a temporary ailment. If not, may I please have a little healthcare? Am I allowed to turn my lights on today?
This country will not stand for this. You can interpret that two ways.
The economy is still losing jobs because #1. The faux stimulus package did absolutely nothing and was the biggest waste of $787 billion in the history of the world and #2. Companies are better off shedding jobs before the complete socialist transformation of this country when they'll be penalized for having more employees through increased taxes, health insurance costs/penalties, cap and trade, etc.
If businesses can see the complete catastrophic effect of current proposed legislation why is it so difficult for Congress and the President? I know! It's because most of them don't know the first thing about the economy but on a whim they can cripple it and obviously based on recent history have no clue how to get it back on track.
What's really bad is their estimates on the effect of the stimulus package were 27.5% low and climbing. With accuracy like that healthcare reform comes in at $1.53 trillion and climbing over 10 years. As they say in Guinness commercials, "Brilliant!"
If not, may I please have a little healthcare?
rightron. You can have healthcare. In three years that is. In the meantime we have to tax the economy until it completely collapses. I wouldn't bother trying with kookie. Too drunk on the kool-aid to understand what you're saying.
-It took Saint Reagan 18 months to turn the economy around.
Yes Ebeneezer. And do you know how he did it? He CUT taxes and passed de-regulation so that businesses and private enterprise could flourish and make a profit with government interference.
Exactly the OPPOSITE of what Pappy-O is doing!
Make it go away!!!! Didn't you see this coming before the great almighty Obama was elected to be president. He's full of hot air and loves to spend our kid's money. Don't blame Bush for the what's happening today. He didn't promise to make these problems worst. Obama's "hope and change" was suppose to save the people from sinking lower into the ground. Three more years of this $#@^%%$. The United States will not be the power house of the world, but begging to be saved by Muslim countries.
Well, I for one really don't care, you all can play the blame game but what are you doing to secure your futures, whining ain't going to pay your bills, and if you lose your job what are you doing to do, that's the problem with most of you here, you're to busy blaming others for the problems we face, worry about yourselves because no one else will, people need to get a grip on reality, this is not the worst yet, next year will make this look like a day in the park, so you all can waste your time blaming these idiots that represent us or start looking for alternatives to secure you and your families future .........
What Bush failures? I remember Biden telling us what a failure W was for creating ONLY 175,000 in August 2008. I seem to recall being in much better shape a year ago.
Just maybe Obama had no plan at all, and was clueless when taking office? And to date, he can best be equated to Nero...Fidding while America burns... This reincarnation of Hoover just doesn't get it...It's the economy, Stupid!
All his political payback pork spending has not done anything for the economy, and when this spending has to be paid for I see unemployent hitting 12%. Do you want to bet on it?
Democrats are throwing gasoline on the fire. W was a moron, but in a room of Democrats he looks like Einstein...
NPR reported this morning that the real unemployment rate is actually closer to 17% when you add in all the people who have given up HOPE for finding a job and are consequently not counted in the polls and people who were full time employees but now can only find part time work.
That is withOUT government interference.
We just need to print more money. We obviously aren't spending enough of our childrens' and grand childrens' future earnings on the problem.
These Democrats can stick their blame game up there you know what! The stimulus package was alot of BS just to get some pork deals out the bill and add to the deficit. If this bill was to create jobs then the unemployment wouldn't be so high as it is now. Now they want to pass a healthcare reform bill to add to the deficit and to give illegal's the fringe benefits on tax payers expense. These Democrats are using scare tactics to win their cases or play bureaucratic double talk. All you people need to wake up and realize that this administation is the same old garbage. Obama and all the rest of his corrupted Chicago thugs can stick their "CHANGE" up their BUTTS!!!!!!!
mmmm, mmmm, mmmm
Barak Hussein Obama!
"Change you can believe in!" (sar)
Ebeneezer Goode nice stats from the Reagan era, but I do not remember him making any promises like Obama did that unemployment would not rise above a certain level.
Also, following the libs "blame the previous administration" policy, shouldn't you be blaming Carter for the unemployment in the 80's, or was that Bush's fault too?
.
10.2%, unfortunate but America does need a wake up call. The Tea Baggers already saw this coming.
Long live Ronaldus Magnus.
If DC is admitting to over 10%, you can bet it's really closer to 20%.
Gee and yesterday it was "the unemployment claims were the lowest in months"
So how about the Healthcare Bill this is supposed to draw our attention away from? We need a list of everyone who votes for this so we can make sure to vote them out of office in 2010. What 435 Representatives up for re-election next year and they dare to defy their constituents wishes? How brave! HOW STUPID!!
Cookie,
Just because you say something, that does not make it so.
It could just as easily be argued the Bush pulled us out of the Clinton .Com recession and not until the certainty of a party switch in DC did the economy go south.
You also conveniently forget that Bush warned congress TWELVE times that fannie and freddie were in trouble, they did nothing. Barney Frank argued to the bitter end there was nothing wrong....REMEMBER?
To all of the "Blame Bush" people:
Let's say you have a really crappy mechanic who, for eight years keeps your galopy car running on it's last leg. You get tired of the crappy mechanic and take it to a new mechanic. The new mechanic says "If you give me seven hundred billion dollars, I PROMISE your car will not break down!". So you give him seven hundred billion dollars, and six months later your car breaks down. If you still blame the FIRST mechanic for your car breaking down, you are a COMPLETE IDIOT.
If you blame Bush, that's fine. I didn't like most of the things he did. But geez, to NOT blame Obama is just plain stupidity. Both of them suck.
Obama supporters, you got swindled, and it seems many of you are still in denial, or too proud to yet admit it.
Reality sucks! We are owned by corporations! What we need as a people is irrelevant to the proffits of corporations. My credit cart limit was 7% for over a decade. Today it is 14%, go figure. I will cash in my 1.7% CD and pay off all credit card debt. Cash only from here on. Chew on that!
We need term limits for congress and the senate.
I will probably not vote for Republican or Democrat but rather independent in the next election.
1.15 Ebeneezer:
"-It took Saint Reagan 18 months to turn the economy around."
True. This assumes you have a Reagan in office. We don't.
The 18 month timer, assuming we do get a pro-capitalist and pro-American Way President for next term, won't start until 2012.
Obama hasn't even started to run this country into the ground yet.
Seems Joe Biden was right for a change. While he was still a running for BO's job, he stated that the Presidency is not a place for "on the job" training. Nov. 2010 can't get here soon enough!!
Well I guess I am just extremely thankful to still be a part of the 89.8% fighting to stay above water.
And as depressing as this 10.2% is, I really want to see what the actual number is when they release the stats that include those no longer looking and fallen off the unemployment rolls.
Cannot say I didn't see this coming. In fact, last week when they had all the rah-rah about the alleged 650K new jobs, I stated that each time a bigger number gets thrown at us, the next week we hear about increased unemployment. Maybe I am just very cynical, but I've got to think a little manipulation is surely being attempted to still the waters.
Sad to say but the real numbers are much worse.
Looks like the new boss is spending more money than we can print. I wonder who is getting all that money? The auto industry? ACORN? The Democratic Party? Obama's Political Donors?
You just can't ignore the fact that within months of the democrats taking over Congress, all hell broke loose.
Whatever the hell was going on up to that point, whether good or bad, had nowhere near the impact on our economy as the last two and a half years.
You can blame it on Bush til the cows come home, but that doesn't detract from the fact that we continue to spiral downward, and the policies this administration are trying to impliment are ONLY going to make things worse.
How do you pay for a trillion dollar BOOST in health care costs without it costing anybody anything?
Bush 8 years??? What a load of Democrap! Obama was sworn in as a senator on January 4, 2005 So get real! Both are equally to blame! Time for the healthscare and any other new spending to end! The debt is killing us! Time to clean house!We need new management in Washington! DNC and the RNC have proved they are not up for this task.
Democrats Win Control of Congress
WASHINGTON -- In a rout once considered almost inconceivable, Democrats won a 51st seat in the Senate and regained total control of Congress after 12 years of near-domination by the Republican Party.
NBC, msnbc.com and news services
updated 3:12 a.m. ET, Thurs., Nov . 9, 2006
WASHINGTON - Democrats wrested control of the Senate from Republicans Wednesday with an upset victory in Virginia, giving the party complete domination of Capitol Hill for the first time since 1994,
By JIM KUHNHENN
The Associated Press
Thursday, November 9, 2006; 10:34 AM
From this story
Payrolls have declined for 22 consecutive months now, throwing 7.3 million people out of work since December 2007, when the recession started!
The 18 month timer, assuming we do get a pro-capitalist and pro-American Way President for next term, won't start until 2012.
Pro-American Way? Pro-Capitalist? Could you please define your terms?
Would that be the Pro-Corporatist-Theocratics of Bush 2.0? Or the Pro-Plutocratic/Laissez-Faire style of Reagan? Or maybe the 1920's and 1930's Republican era...you know...Coolidge and Hoover? We saw how well they governed.
If you said Eisenhower era, I might be able to go for that...but otherwise, I'm sticking with the Progressive ideology...it's far more Pro-America in my opinion.
All you Bush bashers answer me this;
Since Bush is solely responsible for perhaps the greatest economic disaster in our history -
WHY ARE YOU ALL NOT DEMANDING THAT YOUR LEADERSHIP HOLD CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS?
I would think hearings on how Bush manipulated the system and caused this problem would be paramount on the liberal agenda ??
Afterall, isn't there some form of punishment due !
The way I see it - whenever there is a chance to crucify the republicans the democrats are all over it like white on milk.
But when the democrats are at fault everything is buried.
Perhaps, the reason we are not having congressional hearings is because the truth would be revealed to the American public and this would not serve the greater good of democrat power.
JUST A THOUGHT
All the while the media wonders WHY aren't employers hiring - afterall the meltdown has been stopped - LOL
I guess it might have something to do with companies having a difficult time trying to calculate what there operational costs will be in 2010 and beyond.
What will be the cost impact of healthcare reform - Cap and Trade?
Companies are really no different than you and I -
How many of you are plannning on taking that $5,000 vacation this winter? What about those big remodeling projects? etc..,
My guess is that most of us are looking to preserve as much capital as we can - because we just don't know about the future source of revenue and asset depletion we may encounter in the coming months. IT's THE SAME FOR COPORATIONS !
Comment collapsed by the communityI think every time the unemployment rate goes up which is more than they talk about, Obama and his bucket brigade should " at least " sit in front of the public and be qquestioned!!! " time is running out " !
Yo...Cookie,
Get back in the oven!...you're dough ain't baked all the way yet! you dumb A$$!!!!!!!!!
Welcome to the new American/European Socialist style economy... Thank you Obama and thank you Congress! Unfortunately under these policies these unemployment rates will be the norm..., but hey, don't fret..., you'll have healthcare..., won't be able to provide food and shelter for your family..., but you'll have healthcare.
Hmm... I've read this far and haven't seen the usual "jobs are the last thing to recover" idiot come along. I'm sure they will now.
Want to save the country? We need to do the following:
1.) Withdraw from NAFTA and GATT.
2.) Slash government spending - eliminate all unnecessary programs, which frankly are most of them.
3.) Enact strict term limits on all elected officials in the Federal government.
4.) Eliminate the income tax - it's unconstitutional anyways.
5.) Abolish the Federal Reserve (again, unconstitutional) and the fractional reserve banking system. Institute sound money principles. This means getting rid of the fiat currency that we have. All fiat currencies in history have collapsed. The dollar is going to collapse.
6.) Do whatever is possible to bring business back to the US. #1 would help with this. Don't create more government jobs. Government jobs add nothing since they are paid for by taxes and borrowed money.
7.) Re-enact the Glass-Steagall act and other controls that prevent investment banks and lending banks from being one and the same.
8.) Restrict the Federal government to the powers outlined for it in the US Constitution. Their main job is to protect the civil liberties of the people.
9.) Pull out of the foreign wars. Protect our own borders, clean up our own mess, and serve as an example for other countries to follow.
These things would do a lot for us - all beneficial. We are under a criminal government, and we all need to rise up and reclaim what is ours by birthright - a constitutional republic.
1) Pappy-O? You have some issues with him being black, do you?
LOL! Oh ebeneezer. You got me. Yep! It all about racism. Don't ya just love how the Obamapologists always pull out the race card when their savior is failing miserably.
I use "Pappy-O" and "Daddy-O" 'cause you Obama supporters act like he's your parent and you're all asking daddy for your allowance (like free health insurance, that, guess what? Isn't free). Plus I don't think the other monikers (Odumbo, Obummer, etc.) really work in conveying all of you supporter's blind, pointless worship of this idiot. You act as if he IS the parent and you're the child waiting to be coddled.
If we do not get Jobs back, we won't need healthcare reform! There won't be anyway to pay the doctors we have left.! Everything is becoming socialism.
Deficit spending during World War II brought the ratio of total outstanding US national debt to the US Gross Domestic Product (GDP) ratio to 121%, its highest level in history. The Debt to GDP ratio is a common way to measure the indebtedness of a country relative to the size of its economy.
From the 1950s to the early 1980s, modest budget deficits increased the national debt more slowly than inflation and productivity gains raised the GDP. As a result, the Debt to GDP ratio declined to a post-war low of 40% in 1982 and increased to about 60% in the late 1990s.
Over the past eight years, large deficits have become the norm as spending on the Iraq War, entitlement programs, and financial bailouts effortlessly outpaced tax revenues. The proposed health care reform and other new spending measures will almost certainly add to our budget deficit and therefore to our national debt.
Neither war spending nor health care reform and bailout packages are likely to be productive investments that will put our economy on a more solid footing. While some of these spending measures may have been necessary, there is virtually no chance that these investments will generate sufficient returns, either through higher future tax revenues or profitable asset sales, to pay off the debt incurred to finance them. We will see that this is a common theme when we look at Japan and the UK.
The most recent estimates put the Debt to GDP ratio at about 84%. This ratio is expected to increase to 100% by 2011. The US currently spends nearly 14% of the national budget in interest payments. Any significant debt issuance or interest rate increase will make the interest payments the largest expense in the US budget, surpassing military spending for the top spot.
The US has only been debt-free for one year, between 1834 and 1835. Andrew Jackson was president. What did he say in 1832 that is so relevant today?
It is to be regretted that the rich and powerful too often bend the acts of government to their selfish purposes
July 10, 1832
He was right and we are now regretting.Look at the rich in Government who are bending the acts of government to their selfish purposes.
Congress
Jane Harman (D-Calif)$558,544,002
Darrell Issa (R-Calif) $526,300,001
Robin Hayes (R-NC) $272,241,999
Vernon Buchanan (R-Fla) $401,156,971
Michael McCaul (R-Texas) $104,215,000
Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif) $143,974,989
Carolyn B. Maloney (D-NY) $83,585,994
Rodney Frelinghuysen (R-NJ) $72,286,000
Nita M. Lowey (D-NY) $70,503,415
Gary Miller (R-Calif) $65,462,000
Tom Petri (R-Wis) $66,891,999
Denny Rehberg (R-Mont) $59,814,997
Kenny Ewell Marchant (R-Texas) $53,178,582
John Campbell (R-Calif) $45,102,000
F. James Sensenbrenner Jr. (R-Wis) $28,460,630
Steve Pearce (R-NM) $38,030,000
Heath Shuler (D-NC) $41,521,996
Bill Foster (D-Ill) $35,890,000
John M. Spratt Jr. (D-SC) $33,702,995
David Dreier (R-Calif)$29,688,000
Tom Price (R-Ga) $29,270,233
Fred Upton (R-Mich) $25,871,000
Rosa L. DeLauro (D-Conn) $27,234,999
John Linder (R-Ga) $26,649,998
Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas) $21,584,999
Senate
Barack Obama (D) $15,466,043
Max Baucus (D-Mont) $1,363,000
John Kerry (D-Mass) $388,292,172
Herb Kohl (D-Wis) $251,647,996
Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass) $163,298,999
Jay Rockefeller (D-WVa) $127,533,003
Frank R. Lautenberg (D-NJ) $125,692,020
Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif) $115,998,023
Bob Corker (R-Tenn) $98,169,998
Gordon H. Smith (R-Ore) $63,895,999
Olympia J. Snowe (R-Maine) $51,599,001
Claire McCaskill (D-Mo) $44,437,005
Elizabeth Dole (R-NC) $48,218,910
Hillary Clinton (D-NY) $51,232,000
John McCain (R) $37,743,009
Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn) $40,536,648
Johnny Isakson (R-Ga) $24,284,999
Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) $21,938,002
Ben Nelson (D-Neb) $15,889,000
Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) $14,263,001
Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI) $13,857,999
Evan Bayh (D-Ind) $13,942,000
Mitch McConnell (R-Ky) $12,720,999
Arlen Specter (R-Pa) $11,762,000
Judd Gregg (R-NH) $10,521,000
Chuck Hagel (R-Neb) $10,916,000
Sam Brownback (R-Kan) $9,911,000
Your post is full of pure BS.
The Reagan tax cuts worked. Income to the IRS from taxes raised sharply.
How much? 51% increase in revenue as a direct result of the cuts.
The problem was the same as it has always been. Congress gets money congress spends money then borrows more money to spend. It has been this way since George WASHINGTON.
Without the line item veto, presidents can either veto a whole bill and be accused of killing children like GW, or signing bills full of pork for the sake of the good parts like Reagan did.
Blaming Reagan for excessive spending when congress got drunk with cash after the tax cuts is like blaming the bank when you bounce a check, they did their part, you just got carried away or didn't pay attention.
Ebeneezer:
"Pro-American Way? Pro-Capitalist? Could you please define your terms?"
I should have been more specific - those terms apply to an individual. Freedom to work and live as they please, to not be shackled by government. All administrations (Reagan as well) are guilty of growing government. Some worse than others.
More government, to most, is a bad thing.
Obama, with the bank/GM bailouts, clunkers, and now the 1.2T "free health care for all with no deficit" garbage - they've run out of hard cash to pillage from the taxpayers, and they've started to print money. It's a turn off.
Print money = inflation sooner or later
We are at 10.2% now. Obama has inflated the money supply. Based on the unprecedented amount of money flying around that has not been earned, it's going to get much worse.
GM is now government owned. Compare their sales figures in August 08 to August 09 - the "clunker" month. GM sold more cars last August 08. Check Chrysler's sales too.
Why? People chose to give their money to real companies - not taxpayer funded basket cases.
There's no way a socialist liberal is going to bring back a strong capitalist economy. Next November can't come soon enough, but Obama still has 12 solid months to pass whatever mayhem he wishes to.
I'm concerned for the safety of the members of Congress.
Not too concerned...but concerned nonetheless.
this administration is a total failure!! Lets save gov't jobs that the economy can't support, so we have to raise more taxes on the people that work so we can take more money out of the economy so we can put more people people out of work so we can support more gov't jobs so we can raise taxes again for a bloated gov't that we can't afford and on and on and on.
Ever notice how the dems answer to everything is more gov't, more spending and more taxes??????
The answer is alot less go'vt, alot less spending and lower taxes.
Thomas Paine stated that the gov't was an evil, a necessary evil, but evil and needed to be kept at a minimum
This will make Obama very happy
It is going like planned
I was gonna put some smartass remark like "I'm stunned", but it's just not funny or even worth agruing with the blithering idiots who still blindly support this disgraceful administration. All of you who are still in this administration's corner, just remember that you're not safe either. Whether you work in the private sector or work for the government. The private sector is shrinking, and tax revenue is falling through the floor. These clowns need to wkae the hell up right now and stop these idiotic programs like the cash for second time homebuyers (tell me how it's right that my kid's money goes to pay some slob 8 grand so he can buy himself a second home?)
The unemployment rate is 10.2% for American citizens,I wonder what it is for illegal aliens?
The problem is not Bush or Obama. The problem is with the professional politicians in the Senate and House who make the rules. They are in it for what they can get from those lobbyists in DC who are buying political influence to further big business agendas. American jobs be damned .. Greed rules the day. Term limits and / or limiting lobbyist influence is the only way to fix the economic problems in this country. If our government is not for sale to the highest bidder then explain to me how a Senator or Representative can amass millions of dollars in a few short years while he is making $180K per year? He surely did not save it out of his paychecks.
What I not understand is this
Job loss this month is 190,000
But increase in UNemployment is 600,000
Damn how could Bush do this to us this Month
No time to work on the enconomy but plenty of time to ramrod thru the takeover of the healthcare industry on a Saturday
Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm
Barack Hussein Obama
Dimocrooks the party of LIE
Anyone who supports this disaster of an administration is obviously government educated or part of the 47% moocher class that does not pay federal income tax.
Now for those of you who will say go find a job here and or there. LMAO good luck, there are no jobs and what there are you have alot of people appying for that 1 position as well. So as some1 asked before what do we do? Basicly we cant do a damn thing and its only gonna get worse. If the government dosent do something SMART we are headed for another great depression and to all you higher than mighty who again say go find a job or you people are lazy need to get your head out of your ass!!! At this point in time we are at the mercy of the corporations and the government. When all is said and done there will be 2 classes RICH and POOR!!!! If and when we do recover there will still be 2 classes there wont be a middle class unless we the people do something to get these fat rich people and government to stop the BS!!! I can think of only 2 solutions but only 1 of the 2 may actually work and it could get bloody. Everyone says vote out these idiots but what people dont realize is no matter who we vote in, it is the same @!$%# just a different face!!
Now the government wants to add more taxes state and federal to pay for all this crap they are trying to pass as a good thing. While they do this jobs are dropping faster than ever. What the government is doing is nothing more than a power grab, so if we dont stop this we are not gonna beable to do anything w/o the governments say so. We are pawns in some1 or some groups big plan whatever it maybe. But we are headed down a road that shouldnt be traveled.
Oh 1 other thing people say Life is what you make it, but at this point Life is what the corporations and government make it. If you dont have a job or there's no jobs available you cant make life better. People can sit and say go do what you have to but when theres nothing to be gained (job market) there will be no improvement in any1's life.
Good news for some though. In November of 2010 there will be many positions open in Washington DC
#1.7 ...... Would you not agree we are talking about allot of Jobs here that you claim were Bush's fault, may I ask you then how is your little buddy going to help bring these Jobs back if he's not living up to his agenda, Tax breaks for businesses, no tax breaks for moving of shore, fair trade, at the very least some discussion..!
Gee whiz already, hurry up & finalize the healthcare plan and cap & trade so we can break the middle class down to poor. Then we'll have 98% poor and 2% to pay for everybody. Atlas shall surely shrug.
"The Labor Department said Friday that jobless rate rose to 10.2 percent, the highest since April 1983, from 9.8 percent in September. The economy shed a net total of 190,000 jobs in October, less than the downwardly revised 219,000 lost in September, but more than economists expected."
It sounds like some political shenanigans were going on for the September figures announced in October. How could a "downwardly revised" drop of 219,000 lost jobs in September cause only a 0.1 rise in unemployment, while 190,000 jobs lost in October caused a 0.4 rise in unemployment - 4 times as much.
Was the Administration "cooking the books" last month to delay breaking the 10% psychological barrier just before the elections a few days ago??????
I guess "Open and transparent" now means "Open and translucent".
Fortunately, I suspect that there will be quite a few "new" jobs "created" in Washington in 12 months.
LOL! Oh ebeneezer. You got me. Yep! It all about racism. Don't ya just love how the Obamapologists always pull out the race card when their savior is failing miserably.
LOL! Oh Colonel....maybe you should call Michelle Obama something different too? That way we'd have Pappy Obama and Mammy Obama in the white house.
Just because you're ignorant of how it could sound racist doesn't mean it isn't racist. I wouldn't call any black man or woman a "Pappy" or "Mammy" or "Auntie" or "Uncle" or ("Boy" or "Girl" unless they were under 10 yrs old).
It's not that you are a racist at heart, but it's easy to fall into those patterns without even thinking about it. Hell, I did it myself up until I married my wife and found out how offensive I was being toward her without thinking about it.
(One of me and my friends' favorite phrases was to say "That's mighty white of you" when we were being stingy...Being white ourselves, we didn't think anything of it....to my wife - it was insulting).
It's just sad to see how hate filled we've all become. It's more than just disagreeing with Obama's policies. It's not even whether or not they're failing (because frankly, they're not - it's just too early to see it in most cases).
It's the venom that people use when they speak about Obama or any Democrat (or moderate Republican for that matter). There's an anger that is really unjustified. If you disagree with what's being done - FINE. There's no need to threaten or insult or denegrate somebody for whatever reason.
If you don't like what's happening - VOTE WHEN THERE'S AN ELECTION.
If you don't like your choices - RUN FOR OFFICE.
It's not time for people to advocate revolution, or revolt, or out-and-out opposition. It's time for people to GET INVOLVED.
If you're that pissed off that the Government and Big Business haven't fixed the economy and given you a job or created jobs - GO OUT AND CREATE SOME.
Yes - it's really that simple. It's not the economy, stupid - It's the fruit of our own decline into apathy that's to blame.
We all think that all we can do is yell about the problems and blame somebody and look to somebody else to fix them ("Change we can believe in...hah!" and the like).
I'm not saying it's easy, and I'm not saying it will fix all your ills, but for Fux Sake - DO something. If you see a neighbor who's out of work - help them find a job. Hell, GIVE them one - I'm sure many of you need your lawns cut, or help around the house.
If you're out of work yourself - DON'T BE TOO PROUD TO WORK!
There were times that I needed to smile in my friends' faces and ask them if they wanted butter on their popcorn or was picking up the trash they left in the movie theater. And these were the parents of my kids' best friends! Me with a college degree and a laid-off professional! And to be honest - I was happy to do it.
The only REAL way this economy will turn around is to stop @!$%#ING about how bad it is, and how bad illegal aliens are, and how bad the Obama administration is handling things, and to GET OUT THERE AND WORK.
You might be surprised and find an opportunity to start your own business, or to find a new career, or even just find a way to bridge the gap.
...
OK...I'll stop griping now.
I just think we need to start TALKING to each other and stop YELLING at each other.
Let's stop reading each others' posts while trying to think of a witty retort - and start reading them and trying to understand what we're trying to say to each other.
Until we can communicate with each other as adults instead of yelling at each other like grade-schoolers we'll just keep having these arguements and keep ratcheting up the hatred.
As my dad used to tell me - "We all put our pants on the same way - one leg at a time."
...He also used to say "problems are like @!$%#s - everybody has one"...but that doesn't seem to fit as well...
-E.Goode
The problem is not Bush or Obama. The problem is with the professional politicians in the Senate and House who make the rules. They are in it for what they can get from those lobbyists in DC who are buying political influence to further big business agendas. American jobs be damned .. Greed rules the day. Term limits and / or limiting lobbyist influence is the only way to fix the economic problems in this country. If our government is not for sale to the highest bidder then explain to me how a Senator or Representative can amass millions of dollars in a few short years while he is making $180K per year? He surely did not save it out of his paychecks.
BarMagg... Great post I don't know why more people don't see this I've been saying it for awhile now! You should paste it all over this board..!!! In fact you should save it and keep pasting it.. I'll start..!
This recession would've been over by now if Bush and Obama had done nothing. Bush did the first gm bailout and started tarp. Obama went wild!
Doing nothing we would've lost a few more Lehman Bros and AIG would've been stripped down and sold off and more banks closed but so what. GM would've gone down too but they're probably toast anyway.
When this recession ends it won't just be over and we move on like a typical recession. Now we have tripled our debt, printed trillions of dollars, weakened our currency. That effect will take decades to overcome if we stop spending now that is. If we pass several $trillion more in health care and cap and trade it might be impossible to stop this downturn.
Ebeneezer Good - Post 1.15 - I noticed that you conveniently left off this information: Reagan was a conservative republican. Congress (the spending arm of government) and the Senate were both packed to the gills with liberal democrats. Reagan had to fight back the liberals in the other two branches in order to make things happen.
Cookie - again a blinded Obamaite that wants to blame Bush. Who controlled Congress in 06 when the economy started to tank Cookie? Do you remember? Congress is the spending arm of the government. Who said Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were sound institutions while President Bush was calling on (and being ignored) congress to investigate those two fine established government orgainzations run by democrats because they weren't fine. Barney Frank and Chris Dodd are the culprits that created the housing bubble along with another fine organization called ACORN...
It seems to me that the real problems were created by, and caused by DEMOCRATS - on all fronts. If you want to actually look at the cause, look to the liberals.
Now we have all branches controlled by liberals and see the direction we are heading. How much plainer can it be that our economic problems and job losses are caused by LIBERALS in government.
During Bush's first 6 years the unemployment rate was close to 5%. That's a good normal! If there was a republican in office today with the unemployment rate soaring ever higher there would be NO END to the media screaming and the liberals passing blame!!!
Liberals live by a double standard that is sickening!
2010 is coming and there will be change that you can count on! People will NOT tolerate the bad things coming out of Washington for very long.
"the tally of unemployed Americans, which rose to 15.7 million from 15.1 million."
So, only 190,000 jobs were lost, but unemployment went up by 600,000.
I guess the government must be using some of that "new math" they're teaching in school today.
I guess that's similar to the "Deficit" increasing by $1.42 Trillion for the last Fiscal Year, but the National Debt increasing by $1.85 Trillion - $453 Billion extra.
Only in Washington does this happen.
Cookie and all libs.....keep the apologies going for this fool of a President and his idiot economic advisors. Oh Yes, it's Bushes fault...as I remember things under Bush were fine for 8 years until the Dems took over Congress. Bush tried to control Freedie and Fanny, but Dodd, Frank, and the Dem congress said 'OH NO'...everyone deserves a house (regardless of weather they can pay for it or not'! So Cookie, you and the rest of the koolaid drinkers 'get off the Bush crap'. The clowns in the WH and Congress don't have a clue as to what to do about the economy. The issue is JOBS-JOBS-JOBS, not 'GIVEAWAYS' to everyone. They have done NOTHING to create private sector jobs by encouraging private businesses to hire people by tax incentives, ect. The economy will never turn around until PEOPLE HAVE JOBS!!!
'
Cookie, do not want miracles, but 10 months is enough time to stop the bleeding, especially with the oney that was spent.
When Ronald Reagan (the GOP's Messiah) was President:
- -In 1981, his recession started in August with -36,000 jobs lost.
- -Jobs continued to be lost EVERY MONTH until January 1983
- -Total job losses were around 3,000,000
- -Unemployment started (in Jan 1981) at 7.5% and rose to 8.6% in Jan 1982 - and peaked at 10.8% in Dec. 1982.
- -Unemployment remained over 10% from September 1982 through June 1983.
-It took Saint Reagan 18 months to turn the economy around.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Ronald Reagan did not spend 10% of the GDP to turn around the economy did he?
Ebeneezer - That's right! Using Alinski's example - When someone disagrees with Obama's policy and uses sarcasm to describe their frustration - call them a racist. It seems to work every time in your mind.
Only problem is, we see through this and it really doesn't matter, even though liberals always try it anyway. The fact is Obama's policies along with the support mechanisms of a liberal Congress, Senate and Media are screwing this country. You can center on racism all you want. I'll fight against the administration because what really matters is how this government is run!
Another Stimulus Package, Mr. President?
I am just waiting to hear his response to the unemployment rate. I wonder what spin he, his Czars, his Democratic Congress, and his Secretaries are going to put on this.
No more spin......give small businesses what they need to get this economy back on track and quit squandering taxpayer money.
Hey "Scrooge"
I'm sick to death of people turning EVERY phrase, saying, WORD into some kind of racial slur.
I'm offended by your screenname as it promotes the "rich, stingy, uncaring, do anything for money" stereotype of the rich elderly white American male.
Pretty ridiculous huh?
Good thing the recession is over.
cookie -
whether you like it or not, the economy runs on a 7 year cycle, which was coming to an end in 2007/8. check the past 70 years of economic history on the expansion/recession cycle. please list 3 things W did to harm the economy, by either the HouseRep or Senate bill number - this should be good. the normal economic cycle aside, the mortgage implosion had been forecast for almost 30 years by the banking industry, in written testimony to congress each time the cra was renewed and expanded. obambi is making things worse by duplicating hoover's/fdr's mistakes - massive government spending and tax increases. that turned a mild to moderate depression into an 11 great depression.
ebeneezer -
yes it took Reagan 18 mths to turn the economy around. but he did the way JFK did it, not by duplicating hoover's & fdr's follies.
Yes, Reagan lowered taxes, which actually increased revenues to the Treasury, but he had little or no control over spending. For all 8 years of his Presidency, the Democrats controlled the House. Although for most of those 8 years, his party controlled the Senate, they never held more than 54 seats, and everyone now knows you can't accomplish much with less than 60 seats. Even if he had vetoed spending legislation, it's unlikely his veto would have been sustained, given the numbers in the Senate.
How is that change working out for you Obama Supports!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is how the new layoff policy will work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Subject:: Corporate Layoff Notice Received
LETTER FROM THE CEO.....
As the CEO of this organization, I have resigned myself to the fact that Barack Obama is our President and that our taxes and government fees will increase in a BIG way. To compensate for these increases, our prices would have to increase by about 10%.
But since we cannot increase our prices right now due to the dismal state of the economy, we will have to lay off six of our employees instead. This has really been bothering me, since I believe we are family here and I didn't know how to choose who would have to go.
So, this is what I did. I walked through our parking lot and found six 'Obama' bumper stickers on our employees' cars and have decided these folks will be the ones to let go. I can't think of a more fair way to approach this problem. They voted for change, I gave it to them.
I will see the rest of you at the annual company picnic.
The Colonel says: "
Unemployment as of this beautiful Friday, November 6 morning is at (drumroll please).....
10.2%!"
And that's the national average AFTER Barry's goons spin the numbers. In many states, including my own, the numbers are much higher. Is anyone surprised? With this Marxist administration that has bankrupted us and wants to control every aspect of our lives and spend yet billions more, what can we expect? All the jobs being created are government jobs that will further expand the deficit! The healthcare and cap and trade fiascos will cut jobs. And then comes amnesty!! Can't we get Barry and his goons out before 2010/2012? I don't think this country can hang on that long!
nick scpa -
the deficit - and a good piece of the existing national debt - could have been eliminated if congress (tip o'neill, dan rostenkowski, et al) had limited spending growth to the rate of inflation. PriceWaterhouse did a nice study on that in 1989 or 1990.
IT the economy Stupid!! Obama and Friends can Stick your Cap & Tax bill and your 2000 pages health-care Bill and Shove it where the sun don’t shine!! We have people hurting losing everything
Why do Bush blamers refuse to acknowledge Clintons deregulation and his forcing the banks to give mortages to people who could not pay for them? The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (a republican/democrat endevor admittingly), Commodity Futures Modernization Act, and Community Reinvestment Act all directly caused the housing crisis, which is the fundemental reason for our economic woes. These people who refuse to acknowledge this are just partisan hacks or ignorant of the facts. Being said, the blame falls on everyone, down to the people who took loans they could not pay.
Ebineezer
The Tax cuts were not in effect until late October 1981. Tax cuts take 6 - 18 months for cash to build depending on how low cash reserves of businesses are and how big the cuts are. Unemployment peaked at 10.8% in December 1982 and began dropping.
JFK cut taxes with a similar result. The Depression of 1920 ended with a tax cut. Yes, you read right. The tax cut then took place because WWI debts were paid and the fed was going to have a huge surplus. We don't get surpluses today, because that kind of money has always been spent ever since leading us to deficits that created the national debt that the servicing robs everyone.
Obama got his "stimulus" passed in February months. Obama says that unemployment would peak at 10.2% by june - well, we got that now. I'm tired of seeing "unemployment up unexpectedly". This says these guys don'[t have the answer because their theories don't work. They are have already punted twice with additional stimulus plans. Stimulus plans only work if when the stimulus ends, the economy continues to climb.
Business sees no real improvement for at least 6 - 12 months.
I will give you a reminder of how well the "Blame Bush" crap is going... Take a look at last Tuesdays elections and what happened in Virginia and New Jersey.... That will and rightfully should let the "Democrapic tax a bunch" crowd know how the majority of us feel.
AFTER being given perhaps the best chance in HISTORY to make significant and positive, lasting changes that were GOOD and were RIGHT. This Administration has instead decided to take a President who was wildly popular and a Congress and Senate Majority and use it to attempt end runs and BS Tax & Spend policy's. Then while thinking we were not watching... trying to smother it with Hyper Liberal pork plans hidden inside energy bills. Their corrupt (not all) Environmentalist who are using their agenda to also press the Socialistic and Progressive entitlement plans along with wealth re-distribution efforts ... hidden under words like "Social Justice" and "Redistributive Regulation"have now been exposed... even though Obama and Co. tried shutting down the News organization who exposed it. Further making their efforts look erroneous at best.
Names like ACORN and Rev. Write & Bill Ayers who were never spoken of during the election or at best smoothed over by those who accused anyone pointing them out as racist or bigots did not seem to have effect on this President when exposed pre-election. But now that they have been reveled, it seems very obvious they DID have much more effect and influence on Obama then we were led to believe. This supported by nothing less than his actions in office.
Had this President looked down the barrel of history and stood firm in the footsteps of our founders. Had he taken the division that exists and looked for the common ground. Had he not departed from our Nations Heritage and its foundational beliefs... He would have likely been one of the greats and made change that would have swept through the world... not just here. But, Instead he allied himself with the Progressive/Liberals and their disgust for the basic foundation and core of America... And for whatever reason believed them when they told him his election was a verification that our Country was tired of what it was and wanted to be like everyone else.... A FOOLS MOVE... This Nation.... at its core is the dream of all who desire freedom and an opportunity... NOT A GUARANTEE OR A PROMISE... but an OPPORTUNITY to become anything they could possibly dream in their hearts. It happens to thousands every day. It is not a far flung hope... with the drive and the determination... one can be more in America then anywhere else on the planet. And do so without fear of being jailed for disagreeing with the leaders. Or killed for not accepting a religion.
When these words were spoken by Obama we all should have stopped the presses and yanked the ballet... they were the most frightening words ever spoken by a future American leader.;... we should hve saw right through them when he said this..
"it is my desire and the desire of this administration to FUNDAMENTALY CHANGE AMERICA"....
This Nation does not NEED a Fundamental change. It needs those who are in positions to do the right thing and cause change for the better for their constituency to do so with honor and integrity. Just by doing that.... WE may just have all the "Change" we need.
This administration is quickly pushing the legacy of Ronald Reagan's adminstration into the category of near-great to possibly even great. Long live the memory of a real American president.
There aren't enough jobs for the amount of people needing them. The people who can't find jobs but really want them are officially classified as "the army of the unemployed" and is very much an advantage for corporations and employers because it keeps the wage down and has kept it down for decades through both Republican & Democratic presidencies. There could be enough jobs created so everyone employable could work but don't hold your breath - it's not to the advantage of people in power so it will never happen. In fact, the army of the unemployed is a key component of a capitalist economy. Otherwise minimum wage would be close to $30/hour.
In order for Capitalism to work and keep the average citizen pacified and happy, there needs to be competition in the marketplace. In the past couple decades there have been too many allowances for mergers to take place, too many monopolies formed and interlocking directorships getting in the way of real competition. The problem right now is not with the government (although they are definitely not helping) but that we are dealing with the consequences of too much concentrated power in our economy.
It's obvious that the system is broken when mega-corporations and large finaincial institutions turn to government for a handout- doesn't this go against the main principle of fending for yourself in this country? To me that bailout at the end of Bush's term was like welfare for corporate America. The bailout was the worst thing that ever happened to our economy - in true capitialism, companies in the sunset industries die as new companies take over.
Unfortunately our economy has transfored into one that is service-oriented and those jobs don't pay well. Blue-collar and pink-collar jobs are a thing of the past due to manufacturing jobs going overseas and many clerical/office jobs eliminated through technology. This leaves millions of people jobless because they are not needed by employers. There are only so many minimum wage jobs to go around so they are also difficult jobs to get - jobs we used to go for when we were in high school are now highly-competitive and employers usually let people go after a certain period of time because it's more cost-effective to hire someone new at minimum wage.
This has nothing to do with the party in office and has everything to do with the transformation in the way big corporations do business. Because we live in a capitialist society, no one can point the finger to Bush, Obama, Clinton, etc. because in a capatalist economy, the biggest businesses are the ones who control the economy. There are multitudes of problems the government is responsible but our government has a mostly hands-off approach when it comes to telling banks and corporations what to do. It's pretty much the way it's always been. That's why unions were formed.
I think we need another WPA program to get people back to work. It helped in the 1930s and I think believe it could help today. Big businesses aren't going to create jobs they don't need and there is no way manufacturing jobs are coming back to the U.S. when they can pay people literally pennies for a day's work in other countries. In addition, the number of jobs that pay people enough to be considered 'middle class' have been disappearing for decades. Apparently a lot of people didn't notice until it personally affected them.
Years ago I thought it was dangerous for the U.S. to base its economy on retail, especially since wages have remained flat for about a decade. But it is what it is so something has to be done. We can't have a thriving economy based on retail if no one has jobs to buy the crap we don't really need.
Hey "Scrooge"
I'm sick to death of people turning EVERY phrase, saying, WORD into some kind of racial slur.
I'm offended by your screenname as it promotes the "rich, stingy, uncaring, do anything for money" stereotype of the rich elderly white American male.
Pretty ridiculous huh?
1) It's Ebeneezer Goode, and you obvously don't know music.
2) I never said EVERY word and EVERY phrase is racist. But calling a Black Man "Pappy" or a Black Woman "Mammy" IS. Even if you don't mean it to be. I don't like being called Whitey or "Mr. Man."
3) Go ahead and be offended, but then Google Ebeneezer Goode. Pretty ridiculous, huh?
wait till the current dollar bubble bursts. We will see unemployment of 20%
It's beginning to look like the Weimer republic all over again.
As expected! All the supposed good news from the administration and those that learn new ways to manipulate figures, come crashing down. The same old cycle. And will those in power-play positions take note and change course? No... it's full steam ahead right smack into worse waters.
The voices of the electorate mean nothing. Why should it? The election put these people into place. Why listen to those who don't know what they are doing?
Of course... many are standing on pins and needles watching the time clock roll... wishing that we could have another election today. But we have months to go for this government to wreak havoc with things. What gets put into place takes Hercules to move out of place.
But fear not... the President will be on TV today. All is turning around. This will take time. The Stimulus is working. A Health plan is coming. The earth is being saved. and I'll be parting the seas tomorrow at 12. Bring your cameras!
Well I told you so, Obama is playing the fools who think he’s god’s gift to this country. Obama is willing to drag down this country to its knees. Be ready for socialism its coming, “you won’t know what hit ya” if you just stick your head in the sand. We have all the signs, cap & trade, stimulus, health care, control of auto makers, czars in the white house. Look around is your life better now than it was 2 years ago or are you more worried that your family will not make ends meet. I don’t care how much money you make, all people who care about their future have to feel some concern on what is going to happen. If you don’t want this, hammer your congressman until they do what you want, that’s all we have. Remember this day when it comes to 2010 I don’t care what congressman is in office if they voted or are voting for any of the signs I mention before vote them out of office. I love to see Obama on TV explaining the 10.2% another sign Obama has done nothing to get the 10.2% back to work, if he has please show me. Just remember this, if the White House gives out a number let’s say the 600,000 job started or saved it’s a number they pulled out of there behind where’s the data to back up their statements have you seen it, I would think not. Obama thinks we are all stupid people and he can tell us anything and we will go along with it, this has been the case so far for most of us nothing going to change until we change, we can’t change Obama now but the congress we have all the power in our vote to make a change we can believe in, so get off you butts and get to work making change happen.
Ebeneezer,
I never knew that the term "pappy" was reserved for use by only African-Americans. Now that I do, I apologize for using that term in the past to describe an elderly gentleman, of no particular ethnicity, who dispenses the wisdom that he has either learned through life or has had passed down to him from ages in the past. No ethnicity has the monopoly on common sense.
And in another direction, whether you believe in evolution or creationism, they both believe that we come from common ancestors. And if that is truly the case, what is the problem if we borrow things from each other's ethnicity especially if it a term of endearment?
Okay, is it Unemployment the more important issue, or is it Healthcare?
Obama has a mess on his hands, because he's been avoiding tackling this awful subject since day 1.
He told us with his magic wand, he could cure all problems in the US while campaigning. and being elected President of the United States.
Hope and Change.
Well, the big change is that over 18,000,000 or more have no work. What do they do for money, supporting their families, and above all they will stuck with high taxes that will applied to all levels of income in family.
We will or already have a huge increase in mental problems with the unemployed. Finances are the number 1 killer of good families staying together.. Divorces, depression, suicides, emotional disorders. We must have Free Mental Health Care for this specific subject.
Yes, the already poor and middle class who he specifically addressed, will be paying taxes beyond their capacity. What did ACORN promise?
There are plenty of Community Service jobs open.
The first federal stimulus package was cancelled by draconian cuts and layoffs by state and local governments. A second federal stimulus is needed to get us out of the Great Recession. The second federal stimulus would rebuild/repair our infrastructure (which we should be doing whether or not we are in a recession) making our economy more efficient.
Yes, it's all Obama's fault, and Clinton's. The Bush Family and Reagan did everything perfect and have absolutely no part in the current state of depression in the United States.
You see, and apparently most of you are already aware of this (with a few ignorant souls mixed in, of course), EVERYTHING is the result of short-term cause and effect; long-term cause and effect is an illusion, a fraud much like evolution and the idea that cutting down the world's old growth forests in conjunction with burning ton after ton of fossil fuels is somehow bad for our environment. Utter non-sense.
Additionally, this has absolutely nothing to do with the poor state of our economy: "Many economists worry that persistently high unemployment could undermine the recovery by restraining consumer spending, which accounts for 70 percent of the economy."
I feel very lucky to be here among all of you that know exactly what is going on and how to fix it...humbling and glorious at the same time. I'm not quite sure why you all aren't running the country, but I'm sure there are very good reasons...
Can someone explain to me what "hard work" Osama is doing to bring the economy back? If he really wanted to bring it back, there is a simple way. Have Congress pass and Osama sign a bill that prevents the raising of taxes by making the Bush tax cuts permanent. Eliminate the capital gains tax. Cut the corporate income tax rates in half. All this is guaranteed to stimulate the economy and bring in more revenue to the federal and state governments. And, there is not much work that Osama would have to do, other than pursuade enough of his party to go along with it.
"Change you can believe in"
"hey buddy, can you spare a dime?"
"Chains you can believe in"
"we are going to pass the stimulas bill,health care , cap and trade,and anything else we want because we are in power now and you, your children, and your grandchildren are going to pay for it whether you like it or not!"
Let's face it. Jobs have been created... but they are all in India and China.
This has to be a misprint! How dare MSNBC dispute the Obama gang! If I were Obama I would declare WAR on MSNBC for daring to print this negative propaganda!
Our Glorious Leader and his 2nd in command swore to us that the recession was over and bragged on how they created or saved at least 6,000 jobs (at least in Nevada). Now MSNBC spreads these this daring to tell the truth. Next thing you know they will affiliated with Fox News!
I know the stimulus is working because I can see big companies and big banks being bailed out all the time. Meanwhile, back on the farm (in the land of reality) people continue to be unemployed and lose their houses and I am talking about financially responsible people who could "REALLY" afford the houses they bought, but are now out of a job, have no more savings left and through no fault of their own are loosing everything the worked hard for all their lives.
Remember folks, before becoming a politician, Obama was lawyer and a community organizer. "Most" lawyers are liars and (not all, but most) for the most part community organizers specialize in using people to get what they want done. So far I would have to say that Obama is true to his roots. Take the cabinet/staff member who Obama through under the bus to save face for the fly over of New York. Most everyone knows that Air Force One does not leave the ground with out the POTUS's knowledge and authorization. But rather than take responsibility for his poor judgement Obama threw a member of his staff under the bus, so to say. Next we have the two Democratic Governors who lost their elections in Virginia and New Jersey. They were important enough for POTUS Obama to use our tax dollars, fly Air Force One to their respective states and campaign for them. However, now that they have lost the election, it is a state matter and of no importance to POTUS Obama. There may be other examples that I am not aware of but I believe we are seeing a pattern developing here. I suspect that this is the real reason why he is so desperate to get a health care plan to sign into law this year. He knows that there is a real possibility that many Democrats will lose their bid for re-election next year and he will lose a good part of his ability to get his way from Congress. I suspect that if/when this happens he will distance himself from those losers as well.
The best thing he can do to help the people right now is to campaign for those Democrats coming up for re-election. This way it is almost, a sure bet they will lose!
Most people who posted so far seem to be under the impression that some superhero (republican or democrat, Bush or Obama, or someone else) will come and overnight do some magic trick that will SAVE THE ECONOMY! Well, I must disappoint you, we are in for a ride. There are no superheros, and it's going to take time regardless of who is in the White House and Congress. This didn't happen overnight, and it's not going to be fixed overnight. In terms of whose fault it is... you really think that one person is responsible for this mess? We are all at fault, or at least most of us; I don't care what party you're in.
US companies are going to wait as long as possible before they start hiring again. Why? Because they want the largest profit to debt ratio possible. If they remain making profits after cutting pork, then they will continue to keep that ratio and ask for more out of their current employees, who will do whatever they say for fear that their job will be lost next.
But hey if we are going to Blame Obama for this economy only 9 months into his Presidency then why does Bush keep a pass on keeping us safe from 9/11 when 9/11 happened 9 months into his Presidency?
Be objective or don't open your mouth.
"Bush tax cuts [for the wealthy] permanent. Eliminate the capital gains tax. Cut the corporate income tax rates in half."
Fixed it for you. And yes, helping out Corporations and the Wealthy is certainly going to help the majority of the Country. No doubt about it. You are brilliant.
Capital Gains: "The most common capital gains are realized from the sale of stocks, bonds, precious metals and property."
You think the average middle-class individual in this country is giving away a lot of income [profit] by way of Capital Gains? Again, why aren't you running the country with all of your know-it-all solutions?
Unfortunately the real total is 17.8% and growing, the NYT like this bunch of lying thugs in the White House is doing all they can to put lipstick on the pigs. This unqualified, inexperienced clot the libs call a POTUS is severly compounding virtually every economic problem we are experiencing by his incompetence and this majority congress is equally guilty of lunacy and malfeasance that demonstrate severe mental incapacity. We have a supreme court that is to timid to address legal challenge and a congressional ethics committee that will not respond to legal abuse and breaking of law by legislators within in their ranks and yet we are too obey and listen to these clowns as thought they have special skills. This is a sorry state of affairs and the cures are harsh and more in need than ever but they can be done and instead of a goofy plan for socialism that never works, we can return to being a full fledged Republic and we can put integrity, ethic and decent skill back into the government but you have to be willing to remember your heritage and your history to do this. Can you do that?
All you FOX tongue waggers out there, dig out them old national documents and dust off the founders history books so that these folks can see who they are, where they came from and what they have for a future if they know from whence they came. History is a teacher, listen up!
So how do all you people that voted for Obama feel now!!!! All that did vote for him do not have the right to complain!!!!!! All government is pathetic and the fact that they think we are so ignorant as to not know what is really happening upsets me even more!!! Do you ever feel like your surrounded by morons?
I don't know why I expected any other type of response from you "Scrooge".
The point of my post was to show the inanity of the lengths people will go, to make something racial..........HELLO?
With very little effort, you could twist the meaning of virtually ANY word or phrase in the English language into some kind of racially negative inference.
It's like talking to a frickin brick wall.
I feel so stimulated.... how bout you?
Nov 2010 couldn't come faster, it's going to be a bloodbath.
Evidence from as far as Jack Kennedy has proven that tax cuts stimulate the economy, while tax increases depress the economy.
Anyone that thinks that the "Bush Tax Cuts" just benefitted the rich need to do some research. The reality is that those tax cuts primarily benefitted the poor and middle class. The lower 40% of people actually benefitted the most, with their share of the income taxes paid going from 0% before the cuts to minus 4% (rebates even though they didn't pay any income taxes), while the top 20% of income earners ended up INCREASING their portion of the income taxes paid from 81% to 85%.
Also, I find it interesting that the economy under Bush was actually going quite strong until the Democrats took over both houses of Congress after the 2006 elections, at which time they became the original "Party of No" by blocking everything Bush tried to pass - especially reforming Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac, which might have avoided the financial meltdown.
Too bad people have such short memories.
Well, the President has spoken this morning about this issue and is spinning all over the place to placify the unemployed by increasing the length of time they can receive unemployment benefits.
Wow, what a band aid solution. This probably came from his Senior Economist Advisor (Mrs. Romer anyone?).
Take care of the problem by supporting small businesses then you will not have to extend the unemployment benefits.
Oh....by the way, Mr. President. What is your decision on more troops to Afghanistan? Or is this decision too difficult? Gotta get ready for the White House Cook Off.
"October was the 22nd straight month the U.S. economy has shed jobs, the longest on records dating back 70 years."
And the stock market is UP as I type this...what a F'ing joke.
Just keep spending Obama, the debt is already insurmountable so you may as well bring the collapse faster.
"...October was the 22nd straight month the U.S. economy has shed jobs.."
How in the world do you people conclude that Obama single handedly did this?
It won't be long before Obama starts talking about the "Malaise" of the American economy. Jimmy Carter was the last modern "liberal" elected as President, and his policies led to his infamous "Misery Index", the combined Unemployment + Inflation indexes, going as high as 21.98%. If you google it on Wikipedia, you'll see that Bush's average was only 8.10%, the best in the last 40 years (even better than Clinton).
I think it was Calvin Coolidge that said "The business of America is business", and whenever we have promoted businesses, we have prospered, and whenever we penalized businesses, we stagnated. Right now, we are penalizing businesses by threatening to increase their costs with health care "reform", Cap & Trade, and higher income tax rates. Any economist with any credibility (excludes the White House) will tell you that these policies will COST jobs, not add them.
So even though this economic meltdown occured while GW was in office, the blame actually lies with the democrats, is that right, Roy? (I'm not saying it was GW's fault per se, but it absolutely did begin, without question or debate, on his watch.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"This is not a criticism of G W Bush, but he inherited a very strong Government from Clinton (and Clinton built upon what he was given by Bush I), and at least financially speaking, Bush all but crippled the economy.
Well into his tenure as president (8+ years) is when this depression we are currently in really took hold. (note: not when it began, but when it was revealed as a major problem) October 2008, the DOW closes at 5,500+, a loss of 39% of it's value inside one year. This is down from a peak of 13,000+ (the all-time high) which also occured in GW's presidency. Perhaps that is bad for the economy? Perhaps Bush had something to do with this problem? Perhaps something this fkn extreme takes more than 1 year to repair?
Wild guesses, I know.
How can these facts be known yet everything is Obama's fault? Clearly the problem was revealed well before Obama was elected."
Phlan - Obama didn't singlehandedly do this - it took the help of the democrat congress that was elected in 2006. They are the largest contributors to our economy distress.
I'm so glad you asked the question so people can see what the liberal democrats are doing to this nation.
It's time to bring back the "Misery Index" .....formulated when Jimmy "I never lied to you" Carter was President.....we will soon long for the minor Malaise that was America before Reagan gave us the Shining City on the Hill......An America we (maybe not Michelle Obama) were proud of..... I wonder if Christina Romer is still all smiling and bubbly....
How can these facts be known yet everything is Obama's fault? Clearly the problem was revealed well before Obama was elected."
The housing bubble burst is not Obama's doing (nor is it Bush's). Nobody blames him for that. What we blame him for is making things worse by taking money out of the private sector, money that could have been used to create jobs, and frivilously wasting it on idiotic programs like the cash for clunkers which only managed to move this quarter's auto sales into last quarter's auto sales (on our dime), and the homebuyer credit which only moves next quarter's home sales into this quarter's home sales (on our dime). I mean really, are you happy paying $8000 of your hard earned money so that my rich neighbor can go buy himself a second house? (He has already contacted a real estate agent and brags about how MY money will go to pay for his house down in Florida). I'm livid. This administration has no freakin' clue what the hell they're doing. None.
The current situation is about the stimulus? Now that's ripe. Just think what unemployment would be today without it. And funny, unemployment was at 10 percent during Reagan and yet he is considered god by the republican party. republicans tried to stop UI extensions but they're worried about the unemployed? republicans used to think you were a traitor or unAmerican when you criticized a president during wartime. Today, they wear the names proudly. republicans have short memories of the recession almost depression Bush left this country in. I think they're the ones who think Obama is the Messiah since they're the only ones who think that in ten months all the ills left by republican rule could be fixed by Obama. If anyone wonders why repubs are at 20 percent, just read these idiotic posts. It'll answer any question you might still have.
10% What about the ones that are not getting Unemployment that ran out back in August & still can't find a job child pleeez this is the worst times I got family member that are out off work. C'mon Son.
Phlan
"...October was the 22nd straight month the U.S. economy has shed jobs.."
How in the world do you people conclude that Obama single handedly did this?
President Obama did not cause this, he was part of the cause as a State/Jr US Senator. The blame the Administration needs to shoulder at this time is the Massive Spending and unsustainable Government growth in the last 10 months that as many have said since the inception of the Recovery Act would not fix unemployment in any way.
The Fiscal policies being presented and utilized do absolutely nothing to curtail unemployment nor stop the downward spiral.
Add in Health Insurance Reform and Cap and Trade and you are guranteeing more unemployment.
He's working hard to destroy the economy. We are laying off another 200 next week.
Try making fewer apologies and fewer assaults on our liberties, perhaps embrace business instead of vilifying it, lower taxes on corporations, and see what happens.
Or raise our taxes, burden us with more government overhead, and see how that plays out.
What a Schmo.
Yea Skiddy, but look at all the jobs that were saved! (so BO says)
10.2% Unemployment? No surprise here. It is probably higher than the official govt. figures.
The unemployment rate is 10.2% for American citizens,I wonder what it is for illegal aliens?
enzelow76, we don't care what it is for illegals, the illegals need to go home, never to return, leaving more jobs for Americans.
Jobs are the true #1 problem here. Our govt. is going to ram a health care disaster down our throat at a time when job losses are going to effect everything the govt. does. This is not going to work. Govt. needs to get it's collective head out of it's A** and make job creation the NUMBER 1 PRIORITY!!!! If they still don't understand what it takes for job creation, let those who do take care of it and get out of their way!!!!! The govt. is destroying America from the inside out and the rest of the world is laughing at us.
Deke wrote:
Want to save the country? We need to do the following:
1.) Withdraw from NAFTA and GATT.
The withdrawal from NAFTA would destroy the economy immediately. Please read and educate yourself before posting.
The three member nations of NAFTA are completely intertwined at this point. You cannot put the toothpaste back in the tube. You would shutdown all manufacturing immediately if you backed out of NAFTA. Furthermore, the tariffs would only make CHINESE goods that much more cheaper.
The one delta ten tangos are out in force.
1 D 10 T 's
smells like bonus time to me!!! and hello....report to the 2nd floor...our H1N1 vacs are here
Smith Cassidy: Your rant indicates a total lack of economic undertanding, or understanding of the mortgage mess that started this recsession. First of all, the mortgage mess. Congress started this mess when they decided that everyone should own a home. Let's make it affordable. In other words, the banks were forced into making bad loans in the name of diversity and affordability. Had Congress and the government not stepped in, there wouldn't have been all those bad loans. But, when libs scream discrimination, well, too many politicians bend over backwards to appear unbiased, even when they know they aren't biased. The rant in the Clinton years resulted in this mess. Bush tried to put the skids on it, but Congress wouldn't listen.
Taxes: It is the corporations and wealthy who hire most people. I realize lovign corporations is not within the gene pool of libs, but they are the ones who hire. The more money they get to keep away from the government, the more money they have to spend on growth and hiring people. The reverse is also true. Doubt me? Will you spend more money if you have a) More money in your pocket, or b) less money in your pocket.
Capital gains: One major part of the economy is "capital assets". The less tax they have to pay on disposal of assets, the more likely they are to dispose of them and get new assets. IE: create jobs in the manufacturing industry. Good for economy and companies and employees. Most assets result in capital gains only because businesses have held on to equipment and property so long that inflation is the only reason for increased value. IE: they are taxed on inflated prices, not real economic gain.
It's proven (look at the Reagan tax cuts), that lowering taxes stimulates the economy and actually increases revenue as a result of money being turned over.
Get over your class envy and look at the facts. Redistributing wealth, when it is not earned, makes everyone poorer. Grow the economy, and everyone can make more.
Forgot to add: Corporations do not pay taxes, their customers do. The taxes are figured into the price of whatever is being sold. So, yea, can you say "I love soaking the corporations because I love paying more taxes!" Some of the simplest facts escape people.
This is evidence that the pea and shell game isn't working for ObamaNation...He is clueless!!!!!!!!!!!
Big Picture:
Obama killed the Economy with the Stimulus Packages, of which the money has gone no where.
The Economy and jobs would have taken care of themselves.
What's left is a Treasury that is broke, we will owe massive amounts of taxes to pay for his "epiphanies".
Liberals, please prove to me that O graduated from Harvard with a real Law Degree. He can't prove it.
witchrunner:
You and I look at the same thing from 2 completely different angles. The government did NOT force the banks to lend money to everyone and anyone regardless of their income or credit worthiness. That's the first thing we need to be clear on. The government never told the banking, mortgage, lending industry to manipulate, mislead and lie to the borrowers, which is exactly what they did. The banking industry made a boatload of money on all the various types of mortgages (ARMs weren't invented by the government) and refinancing. A Boatload. They were sucking it dry, earning hand over fist TODAY, and not worried or too stupid to think about tomorrow. If you believe the government wanted the banks to lend to people who could NOT pay back the loans, and the banks actually followed through with this type of lending practice, you need to re-examine your knowledge. And you absolutely should not be questioning anybody's economic/financial aptitude.
So if I don't love Corporations - if I don't love entites that have their own branch of law and taxation, entities that never die, entities that go beyond the borders of any nation, that are run by a conglomerate of shareholders for the sole purpose of profit by almost any means regardless of what gets sacrificed - I am a liberal? Really? Is that your argument?
So these same corporations that lay people off by the thousands while still paying their excutives 6-7 figure salaries with 6-7 figure bonuses just so they can turn a profit for their shareholders, these are our saviours? And when things get back to normal, these Corporations don't run out and hire everyone back, and why should they? They are making more with less - the people who are working are working harder and doing more out of fear of losing their jobs. You've heard of the 'Rocket Up, Feather Down' phenomenon, right? Well, that's a good description of what corps do regarding firing and hiring.
Please, don't try to sell me on the idea that cutting Capital Gains is going to help anyone but the wealthy. And this has nothing to do with class envy (how do you know how well I am doing or not?), and everything to do with calling BS on crappy theories. The vast majority of the people in this country do not have assets they can sell (most people's primary asset is their home, which more likely than not they've already refinanced because the banking industry told them it was like getting free money), let alone turn a profit on. But don't get me wrong, I am not pro-tax by any stretch; I'm just not in favor of a tax change primarily helps those who are already doing well. Getting rid of the inheritance tax on the other hand...
I agree that it's high time to stop pointing fingers at who started this, and start looking for the "right" solutions to get us out of it!
We have a President that is going the wrong way for the solutions. Expanding the role of government is part of the problem that needs to be fixed. Shrinking government involement in the economy and loosing the reigns on the free market is the better direction. Tax cuts would help tremendously... especially business tax cuts. BUT DON"T HOLD YOUR BREATH!
History has told us that greater burdens on business and citizens causes a puddling and dissipative effect. Money flowing through the system flushes things out. But Banks have holed up... citizens are gripping to what they have in fear... and businesses are not being paid attention to. It almost seems that the President doesn't want to face facts and will... till hell freezes over... continue to jam a square peg on a round hole. Where others have failed... I'm going to succeed! The more the facts line up against... the harder I will push for. I am the exception to the rule!
When we talk of the future and who it is that will arise with a plan that energizes the American public, there is no one person in sight. But this is going to take a coalition of good people to change the depressive state of the average citizen. Not pie in the sky... and no one super star can do it.
Set the people and the money free to flow! Make every financial decision based on how good it is for the people, not the government or it's programs.
Smith
The whole point of the 1999 finance reform was to get housing into the hands of minorities. If you didn't give a loan to a minority who qualified by the reduced requirements in the bill - you were presumed to be racially discriminating and all federal agencies were to investigate and prosecute. This per President Carter executive order 1977 - Never repealed.
Business fears, and always fears government - you would be wise to do so to.
"The withdrawal from NAFTA would destroy the economy immediately. Please read and educate yourself before posting."
And who said immediately? Please read and not make assumptions that make you look stupid.
"You would shutdown all manufacturing immediately if you backed out of NAFTA."
What manufacturing? That's the problem - 70% of our GDP is from consumption. We need to bring industry BACK here. You know? The industry that left largely because of NAFTA? The economy is going to tank hard as it is - might as well start making moves to re-industrialize ourselves so we can support our own consumers. Continuing to send our funds overseas and to Mexico is not going to get us out of our problems. Americans need jobs.
Here's something about the unemployment rate I found online at WSWS website:
US unemployment rate surges to highest level in 26 years
By Andre Damon 7 November 2009
The US unemployment rate rose to 10.2 percent in October, according to data released Friday by the Labor Department. This is only the second time official unemployment has reached double digits since the end of World War II. It is the highest level since early 1983.
The latest figures show the real basis for the “recovery” proclaimed by the Obama administration, which is accompanied by soaring unemployment, together with speedups and wage cuts. The unemployment figures come only one day after the release of figures showing that those who still have a job are doing more work for less money.
The unemployment rate, which is measured by a survey of households, shot up by 0.4 percentage points in October, far more than economists expected.
Non-farm payrolls, which are measured by a separate survey of employers, fell by 190,000. Economists had predicted an average of 175,000 job losses and a 0.1 percent rise in the unemployment rate. The survey households—which include the self-employed and incorporate a better measure of small businesses—showed much higher level of job losses: 558,000.
About 61,000 US manufacturing jobs were lost last month, bringing the total number of manufacturing jobs lost to 2.1 million since the recession began in December 2007. Retail trade dropped by 40,000 jobs, and the service sector as a whole lost 61,000 jobs.
The last time unemployment passed 10 percent was during the recession of 1982-1983, when it peaked at 10.8 percent. Labor conditions for workers are, however, worse than they were during that recession. Over the past three decades, there has been a protracted campaign for “labor market flexibility,” which has resulted not only in employers’ ability to lay off workers at will, but also to quickly cut hours and impose speedups.
This was expressed in figures released Thursday by the Labor Department, which showed an increase in productivity of 9.5 percent at an annualized rate in the third quarter. Productivity is calculated as the amount of output generated per hour worked. Over the past six months, productivity has increased at the highest rate since 1961.
The sharp rise in productivity is due to the fact that workers are being forced to do more for less. Many employers are laying off part of their workforce and making those who still retain a job cover for those dismissed.
To stress the fact that the administration is committed to cutting federal spending and reducing the deficit, Obama stated that the bill extending unemployment benefits was “deficit neutral.” “The bill I signed will not add to our deficit. It is fully paid for and so it is fiscally responsible,” he said.
The focus on federal cost-cutting, a theme that has been repeated by numerous administration officials over the past two weeks, comes after the government’s coffers have been opened up to the financial elite. The surging profits and bonuses at the largest banks are to be paid for by cuts in social spending.
Obama indicated that his administration was “looking at” additional measures, largely focused on tax cuts for corporations, supposedly to create jobs. The government has rejected additional stimulus measures.
Alan Krueger, chief economist at the Treasury Department, told reporters that there were no firm plans in the works. “I can’t comment on what’s being considered, or when what’s being considered might happen,” he said.
During his remarks, Obama also pledged “an aggressive agenda to promote exports and help American businesses sell their products around the world.” This statement refers to a key component of the government’s strategy to address the US budget deficit, in part through a devaluation of the dollar to make US exports cheaper and imports more expensive.
The linchpin of this policy, however, is the assault on wages, which is the driver of international “competitiveness.” Real wages in the United States have fallen at near-record rates so far this year, and the trend is set to continue.
The government itself spearheaded this attack through the forced bankruptcy of General Motors and Chrysler earlier this year, accompanied by the demand that auto workers accept a new round of concessions.
Earlier this week, Obama declared at a meeting of his Economic Recovery Advisory Board that he aimed to “create an environment in which business investment is triggered.” The main way this is to be done is by permanently reducing the wages and increasing the productivity of American workers.
For Obama and the corporate and financial elite that he represents, high unemployment is not unwanted—it is, rather, absolutely necessary.
Smith: You still didn't address any economic arguments, only emotional. Plus, as DB pointed out, you are unaware or ignoring the hammer of government. Of course you are a liberal. Liberals use emotional arguments, regardless of the economics the ultimate affect on things. The best thing this country could do is implement a flat tax. Why? You may ask. The main reason is so that whatever people are advocating affects them. It's too easy to say, well, it doesn't affect me, so sure, soak the rich, corps, or whoever else. People would be a lot less likely to support destructive policies if they also felt the brunt of it.
When you get over your envy of money makers, and decide that you want to look at the actual impact of policies, then we can talk. It's hard to hold a conversation with someone who doesn't respond to facts, or does respond, with non-facts or irrelevencies.
Ahh, the ever-faithful 'you're a liberal' defense, which is really no defense at all but instead an admission of weak arguments. What was emotional in what I said? Additionally, does emotional = inaccurate? You calling me a liberal isn't an emotional argument?
I stated the banks took the ball from the governemnt and ran with it regarding mortgages and housing for lower income people, which is exactly what they did. What's emotional?
I stated corporations ultimately exist to perpetuate their own existence by generating profits for their shareholders and that this goal is pursued by paying the top brass fabulous salaries so they will in turn do whatever it takes to make money. I put this forth as a fact because I don't believe helping Corporations means the people of the United States are going to be helped by way of osmosis. That doesn't mean I am anti-coproration, or believe the government should tax them to hell, but I also hold no illusions about what exactly corporations are or why they exist.
So, tell me what is emotional there. Better yet, tell me I'm wrong.
You keep saying I have this hang-up regarding people with money, yet you are the one who thinks the wealthy are our saviours so we should help them out by eliminating the Capital Gains tax and cutting taxes on Corporations, and then everything will be just fine ... perhaps you have some sort of inferiority complex?
Are you an economist? I'm not, so why would I argue economic theories with you? That's absurd. I do have a financial background, however. How about you?
Also, when did I ever say I was anti a flat tax? We were talking about Capital Gains before. I know for a fact a flat tax is not as simple as you make it out to be (graduate financial planning and tax classes), but it would be interesting to see some theories on how it would work.
Sorry, but what you have presented are not facts, just theories.
The answer must be "more" government programs.
#2 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:27 AM ESTCookie- Bush is gone...stop blaming everyone else for your messiahs shortcomings. I know liberals refuse to take accountability for ANYTHING, but come on, this is Hussein's f-up.
Stop cleaning please!!
You might want to stop putting the smoking weed in the cookie dough.... There are financial factors and there are psychological factors to the economy. Right now, the psychological factors are in play because of the potential economic factors such as: 1. Cap and Trade (that's going to hit the midwest hard--you know that place--where the farms are that produce the food we eat?) 2. Health Care (1.2 Trillion bucks that, by their own admission, doesn't do what they want done--everyone covered. Shrewd!) The anxiety about the economy now is Obama-produced, and it won't ever be Obama-cured if he stays his course.
This is a clear reflection of Obama's success. I have never heard of a figure-skater getting more than a 6. Shaun Johnson, the olympic gold winning gymnist never scored higher than a ten on any of her performances. I'm fairly certain that the world champion Yankees at no point during the World Series scored more than 10 points. You Obama haters need to swallow your pride and accept that these numbers are astounding especially when the man himself predicted that he'd only get an 8.5. In Nostradamus style I predict that this supremely talented individual will reach the summit of perfection when he hits the 1.2 trillion mark on healthcare legislation; that number is outrageous no won can beat that, not even Jimmy Carter. Bring it haters.
Cookie....
This whole messy house of cards began to fall due to our government's efforts to push Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to back home mortgages for people who did not have the credit history or financial ability to pay their loans back...like all the rest of us are expected to do. Our economy began to unravel when the $#!% hit the fan on those defaulted loans.
You can blame George Bush all you want...if you do the research, you'll find there are many, many others culprits with much dirtier hands than his. But that would mean dealing with reality.
And "we"(your word)..I'd guess meaning the politicians you support...are not working too productively to "clean up the mess" (your words) that you fully and erroneously blame on a single man. Time to grow up a bit.
..cookie is the literal incarnation of being the most blind is she who will not see.
"Change" is all we have left in our pockets after the great taxation the Democrats are trying to ram down our throats!!!
Cookie - complain about Pelousi instead. She's spending your tax dollars so wisely! She works 150 days A YEAR, 3 days a week, flies home every weekend in her 200passenger jet which cost $60K in fuel ONE way at a cost of nearly $6M a year for fuel which does not include crew or maintenance cost. Figure it out.......for 150 days of so called work(recent photos of Senators computer monitors during session showed sports scores, solitaire games, facebook pages, etc) she is averaging $40K travel expense a day for fuel only!!!!. I don't know about you but I could live very comfortably on a couple days of that without a bit of trouble without her salary, retirement benefits, payoffs, and free healthcare!
If your going to blame Bush blame him for not opposing Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid more aggressively.
Obama has just come along & thrown gasoline on to the fire these three started.
Please give us more government involvement in the private sector. Clearly that is the only way to kill capitalism..., er, I mean, save us!
One correction from article. It read:
Nearly 16 million people can't find jobs even though the worst recession since the Great Depression has apparently ended.
It should read: "Nearly 16 million people can't find jobs even though, according to the clowns in the White House, the worst recession since the Great Depression has apparently ended.
One correction from article. It read:
Nearly 16 million people can't find jobs even though the worst recession since the Great Depression has apparently ended.
It should read: "Nearly 16 million people can't find jobs even though, according to the clowns in the White House, the worst recession since the Great Depression has apparently ended.
SORRY FOR DOUBLE POST. IT WAS BUSH'S FAULT!
Why is it that Bush ends up with the blame for the problems and issues at hand when it's undeniably Sarah Palin's fault?
All of our nations problems can be tracked back to Kevin Bacon in under 6 degrees of seperation.
I"m gonna check in with Mel Gibson's Conspiracy Theory. I think Bush and Obama are in this together. Surprised we haven't seen then turning up a cold one in the Rose garden.
9/11 happen IN the Bush Administration. However Republicans BLAME IT ON CLINTON.
Why this is Obama's fault ? What goes around come around.
This one, like our healthy, richest great economy is............................... BUSH's FAULT.
No....Republicans blame 9/11 on Islamic terrorists.
wcritiquing -
the only reason clinton is mentioned in regards to 9/11 - and richard clarke points this out in his book - is that 1) he failed to take action when given FIVE opportunities to take custody of obl or terminate him with extreme prejudice; 2) according to documents captured in afghanistan clinton was weak by treating the 1993 WTC bombing as a law enforcement matter rather than an act of war (which is what clarke wanted it treated as); and 3) clinton allowed 7-count 'em-7 attacks on US soil to go unpunished.
all of these when looked at in sum total, in context of the arab view of the world, left clinton & the US looking weak and vulnerable, thus ripe for a catastrophic attack.
Mo (post 2.14), that's got to be the funny of the day!
Bush must be like a G-d to the people who are still bashing him.
It is President Obama now, for those who still think it is Bush's fault.
The President of the United States, Nov. 6, 2009 is President Barack Hussein Obama, for those who don't know it. Getting close to 1 year in office.
Yes, it's all Obama's fault, and Clinton's. The Bush Family and Reagan did everything perfect and have absolutely no part in the current state of depression in the United States.
You see, and apparently most of you are already aware of this (with a few ignorant souls mixed in, of course), EVERYTHING is the result of short-term cause and effect; long-term cause and effect is an illusion, a fraud much like evolution and the idea that cutting down the world's old growth forests in conjunction with burning ton after ton of fossil fuels is somehow bad for our environment. Utter non-sense.
Additionally, this has absolutely nothing to do with the poor state of our economy: "Many economists worry that persistently high unemployment could undermine the recovery by restraining consumer spending, which accounts for 70 percent of the economy."
70 percent of the economy from spending and, ultimately, by generating debt. Again, it's all Obama's fault that our economy, as big as it is, is built upon an unsustainable foundation.
And that favorite thing of your that you lost some time ago, it was really stolen...by Obama.
I feel very lucky to be here among all of you that know exactly what is going on and how to fix it...humbling and glorious at the same time. I'm not quite sure why you all aren't running the country, but I'm sure there are very good reasons...
Smith Cassidy:
Yes, and President Obama wasn't forced to take on the severe responsiblities of being a new President.
He was elected by a landslide Majority of People, by his choice, who are now sorry he lied to them during the Campaign he could fix all and make all well.
Someone wouldn't run for President if he wasn't up to the challenge, plain and simple.
A problem free incumbent President, is rarely without a big Agenda to repair.
Why else do we have elections? It is a new Start, but the start hasn't come in over 11 months. What are his plans to solve America's Unemployment, and Economy---no one has said how much our taxes will cost under the Health Care Plan.
We know nothing of his dealings.
From all the posts I have read, Cookie sure takes the Prize for being the most Liberal supporter. Just cannot get Bush off his/her mind.
Guess it will take time for Cookie to wake up, get off the beaten path of the Land of Oz, and conduct a self reality check.
A new president does not wipe the slate clean by any stretch of the imagination. A new president is simply a new runner in an ongoing marathon, that's it.
We still give credit to the founding fathers for the shape and development of this nation. That, more than anything else, should prove that we, as a people and a government, stand upon shoulders of those who came before us.
President's inherit the good and the bad from one another.
This is not a criticism of G W Bush, but he inherited a very strong Government from Clinton (and Clinton built upon what he was given by Bush I), and at least financially speaking, Bush all but crippled the economy.
Well into his tenure as president (8+ years) is when this depression we are currently in really took hold. (note: not when it began, but when it was revealed as a major problem) October 2008, the DOW closes at 5,500+, a loss of 39% of it's value inside one year. This is down from a peak of 13,000+ (the all-time high) which also occured in GW's presidency. Perhaps that is bad for the economy? Perhaps Bush had something to do with this problem? Perhaps something this fkn extreme takes more than 1 year to repair?
Wild guesses, I know.
How can these facts be known yet everything is Obama's fault? Clearly the problem was revealed well before Obama was elected.
edit:
7+ years, although sometimes it felt a lot longer...
Smith Cassid - your facts are lies, Peak was above 14,000 and closed no lower than 6500.
I am too busy trying to keep my company afloat from the current fiscal disaster brought on by housing bubble. Last time I checked Bush did not sell all these mortgages to people. In fact I bought mine from a banker! So perhaps the Apologist in Chief could get off his arse and actually do something for the economy, like stop threatening the corporations, stop pandering to the union, stop trying to take over the private sector, and then see what happens!
My company provides products to Wind Energy AND WE ARE CUTTING JOBS!!!!! BHO is not doing anything to promote business only to destroy it!!!!
I can see the Left Winger Liberals are out in full force on this board today.
Hawaii2
A landslide is and always been over 55% of the popular vote. Obama got 52.8% - that is not a landslide it is a victory. Receiving anything greater than 50% of the popular vote is great enought to produce a huge electoral advantage.
Too bad you won't get to see this, but BO did not, as you pointed out, receive a landslide popular vote, but he did receive a landslide electoral college vote - the one that actually counts.
As you apparently do not know, Al Gore won more votes than Bush in 2000, yet somehow lost the presidency. How much better off we would all be . . .
Earth to MSNBC, 9.8 is nearly 10%.
#3 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:28 AM ESTCheck Bloomberg and NY Times it is 10.2%
Good thing the President is focused like a "laser" (I think he used the Dr. Evil Quote marks for emphasis) on the economy, otherwise things would have been much worse. He simply does not care about anything but his "agenda". Health care is not as important as this. Multi tasking, anyone can do it, but it takes skill to do it well. This President shows no such skill. The only multi taksing he is good at is talking out of both sides of his mouth at the same time.
"Nearly 16 million people can't find jobs even though the worst recession since the Great Depression has apparently ended."
What kind of Drivel is MSN PUKING OUR WAY AGAIN?!
All just keeps Keeping on, including the rising unemployment in the USA, HOWEVER, it all points to the fact that the DEPRESSION is OVER! WHAT?!
It's just "SO OBVIOUS" isn't it?!
NOT!
WTF AMERICA??!!
Wasn't it the "Unemployment DROPS MORE than expected" headline of just a day or so ago, that sent the DOW up roughly 200 points? Now the headlines are that Unemployment INCREASED MORE than expected. Just who are these idiots that are doing all of this 'expecting'?
Are people in this country so damn stupid that every time the media pumps out another sensationalizing headline, they blindly jump?! It is the stupidity of the vast majority of voters, that keeps these greedy A-hole politicians in office. WAKE UP AMERICA!!! Quit being lead astray by the liberal media and greedy politicians. Any vote for a Republican or a Democrat is a vote for more of the same ole crap.
Vote Libertarian for reduced government size and spending.
Vote Libertarian for Welfare reform.
Vote Libertarian to bring jobs back to American workers.
Vote Libertarian to put the benefits of the USA first on the agenda.
Greed is everywhere I voted you up sir because your wright' My own landlord could care less about me America has been duped into worshiping money$Look around you good is bad and bad is good' Our own movies show that' I bet you anything that movies that show high tech faceless violence get higher ratings than any other
And example of this is The transformers and The mist It crushes The ten commandments in every scene, Every frame no the real war is good against evil and evil is kicking our ass
You need to take your meds Richard. You will be all "wright" (sp).
Your land lord is not suppose to care about you. He is supposed to care whether or not you hold up your part of the contract that you signed. You are part of America's prblem.
Get some integrity.
Obama spin.
1 million jobs created or saved (I have findly learned how to say it without laughing).
It's Bush's fault.
The real funny part is some people will always believe it no matter what he says.
#4 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:31 AM EST10.2%
"Change you can believe in"
#5 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:36 AM ESTHey give the man a break - he didn't specifically say the change would be better...
Congratulations obama administration; at 8:30am et today unemployment hit 10.2%.
That stimulus plan is working out great about now!
#6 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:39 AM ESTNaw, there is PLENTY OF ROOM for more people and workers in the USA. Some nutjob told me we can fit the world's population in Texas, no problem. Fill 'er up and never mind jobs, water, and food. Bring in as much illegals and you can and start making them pump out those anchor babies with FREE healthcare for all!
Saps.
#7 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:40 AM ESTPeople need to stop blaming Bush, things might not have been too good under Bush but he was not a blowhard like Obama. I had a job while Bush was President, I do NOT have a job because this idiot is pretending he has a brain and can pretend he is president.
The only way Obama can fix the economy is buy checking himself into Gitmo for treason.
#8 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:44 AM ESTAs good as it might be to have another reason to keep Gitmo open, I can't accuse BHO of treason. Lunacy? Gullibility? Tunnelvision? Dangerously Inexperienced? Definitely! But not treason.
Add in stupidity and naivety, KJ. I'll just stop there.
confused -
treason will come into play when he breaks the 'posse comitatus' law and establishes his civilian police force with the same funding and equipment as the military.
or his inaction on afghanistan begins to put American lives and interests in jeopardy.
The unemployed rate jumped to 10.2 percent, the highest since April 1983 - Gee who had been president for over 2 years and not 10 months at that point??? Why the GOP hero Reagan!!! Yet back then all the GOPiggies blamed Carter. But now, it is not Bush's fault but Obama's??? Please explain to me why???? You reTHUGlicans really do have a short attention span!!!!
And what was the unemployment rate when Reagan left office?
Hmmmmmm.....short attention span my aunt Fannie.
SIck of IT!!!, some of us weren't even born at that time, and others were babies. lol
Is this good news or bad news for Wall Street? Will the Dow go up today because businesses will make more money because they tightened up or will the Dow go down because this is bad news and less people will spend?
#11 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:47 AM ESTOn it's way down, the Dow.
F you, liberals. You're on your way OUT.
You've failed, at every turn, to govern. The only the thing you are capable of doing is campaigning.
There is NO campaign force in the world strong enough to get the lot of you reelected next year.
The market won't follow reality. It will work on "speculation" and "hedging". Who cares what's really happening......
Jeremy - Me. My 401k.
It was sarcasm, the "Who cares..." part. I care also.
Well, now that we have unemployment under control, on to health care and the climate!! Sarcasm fully intended.
#12 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:47 AM ESTLittle Jimmy Jr. has now locked his legecy in place as our next single term president. And now his motto changes to 'Change you don't want want to believe.'
But of course, this is all Bush's fault. Wait until the Bush tax cuts expire and unemployment takes another hit; BHO will say that, too, was Bush's fault because he should have insisted in a longer time period for the cuts than 10 years...
Will somebody fill out this empty suit!
#13 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:50 AM ESTCorrect, slippery. Remember, BHO promised "no tax increase for those making less than $250,000". He's got his ass covered on Bush tax cuts expiring. That will be a tax increase that Obama will say, "I had NOTHING to do with this."
Slippery
Speaking of tax cuts for next year - how about this year?
That stimulus taxpayers received through payroll resulted in new withholding tables in 2009 are going to hold a surprise at tax time.
We did not change our W4's (payroll withholding) and should not have had to do so, had the tables been done correctly.
Anyway, just looked at our latest paycheck stubs to estimate our 2009 tax return consequence and our liability will increase by $1,800 because of under withholding. Yet, another stimulus failure we'll be reading about in the Spring.
m green,
A lot of people are going to be surprised. Those who set up their withholding as a means to get a refund next year are going to find out that they have already gotten that refund this year.
Sweeeet!!! I'm in Michigan, let's see if any state out there can beat us. Bring on socialism!! This ought to be really good for the stock market today. I thought at the beginning of the week they said the jobless rate went down.
#14 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:50 AM ESTCloudy one. If you don't like it in the USA, you should leave. I did. I went to Europe over 10 years ago and I have no plans on returning to the USA. But, whatever you do, stop whining. Americans don't whine. We find a way to win.
#15 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:51 AM ESTYippee!! I am so glad we passed a $787 BILLION DOLLAR stimulus -- look how wonderful the economy is! What a bunch of goons in D.C.
When are you Liberal Lunatics going to wake up??
Take a look at REPUBLICAN states. Strongest economies, lower unemployment, "true" job creation. All while keeping spending down & lower taxes. Texas has ZERO state income tax for example
Didn't Republicans say "spending" does not help the economy?
Would you please listen to Republicans when they tell you the health care bill & climate change bills are piles of $hit -- they will destroy the economy further!!
Liberals: If you love your country, do yourself & your fellow Americans a favor. GROW A BRAIN
#16 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:53 AM ESTLiberals: Do us all a favor and become extinct. You are the enemy mine.
yesterday it was down? its like the stocks up,down..get the jobs from over seas ,bring them back put us back to work.the greed of corp. america..
#18 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:53 AM ESTDon't you worry never fear Obama the mighty one is here. He takes from the rich and gives to the poor and soon he will destroy America. All I know is anybody who voted for this slippery tongued idiot should take the blame for the demise of this wonderful country. You sold us out to a socialist,elitist and full of himself leader. I blame you not Bush.
#19 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:54 AM ESTThat's the irony MA, we've done this to ourselves, and it will be impossible to reverse it once all this garbage is signed into law. Oba mao thinks he's Chavez and everyone loves him. I think that he thinks he will be in offfice for life, with no acknowledgement of term limits. Scary stuff.
No, not impossible to reverse. Difficult, but not impossible.
First step: Make sure they know, you're watching and you're pissed off.
Second step: Spend the next year researching and campaigning for someone with some fiscal sense.
Third step: Vote out the incumbants that are supporting in Crap and Tax and Health Scare. Vote in people with the intenstinal fortitude to fight the repeal of these disasters.
Fourth Step: DEMAND the repeal.
For now, pray we make it till Nov. 2010.
miffed american says, he takes from the rich and gives to the poor and soon he will destroy America.
Billions were given to bail out corporations, not welfare recipients. The failing corporations that were deemed to big to fail had paid bonuses in the billions to corporate executives, yet still received taxpayer money and the banks that received taxpayer money in the hopes that they would then extend credit to everyday Americans did not do so. Your statement regarding "taking from the rich and giving to the poor" makes no sense whatsoever. I suggest you figure out what it was you were trying to state and re-post because apparently, you posted too early in the morning and your brain hadn't quite caught up to the rest of your body being up and about.
Good stuff! "Recession is over". All you mice who voted for Obummer, line up and follow the Piper!!! HOW IS 10.2 NEARING 10%??? Oh yeah, WH spin!!!
To busy working on citizen control legislation like healthcare and Cap & Trade.
Don't fear, Odumba said a few weeks ago, he WAS REALLY GOING TO PUT HIS THINKING CAP ON ABOUT HOW TO CREATE JOBS. Hmmmm? I'm not a rocket scientist here, but this is REAL simple. PROP UP SMALL BUSINESS! You idiot! Use the stimulus to help small business, tax breaks, credits, what ever! How about forcing the banks YOU gave billions to actually LEND small business money instead of them keeping it under their pillows.
Enjoy the next 11 months Dems, because YOU'RE BEING VOTED OUT!!!!!!!!!
#20 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:54 AM ESTDave, it felt so good to live in Virginia on Tuesday. A ticket sweep for Repubs. My daughter had to talk me out of dancing in the street. Also, kudos to all the good folks in Jersey! I can't wait until next November. It'll be sweet!
big loser in free trade? the USA! over 15 million usa jobs loss!
gatt+nafta+cafta=shafta usa workers and their families
that's 15 plus million workers that lost their jobs not paying into social security, federal, state, local taxes and more. plus, their employers are no longer paying the fired 15 million workers their share into social security.
remember the ballet dancer robby emanuel when he worked for clinton? the ballet dance emanuel spearheaded the drive and pressed congress to pass NAFTA! now the ballet dance robby emanuel is doing the same with universal health care and pressing congress to also include 20 million illegal immigrants that have broken usa immigration laws by invading the usa and are being rewarded? what's happening to the usa?
the american people need to demand the return of 15 plus million lost jobs today, tomorrow, next week, month and next year from the white house and both houses of congress.
is there no shame in washington?
#21 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:54 AM ESTGee, isn't this a big surprise???? NOT!!!! The administration and congress have done absolutely nothing to help the job situation, in fact they've made it worse!! We definitely need more government intervention in this country . . .
#22 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:55 AM ESTWow....actually looks much better than I thought. Yes, unemployment is above 10% but look at the employment trend from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
August numbers were revised to only -154,000 jobs (from more than -200,000 jobs) and September's were also revised from more than -250,000 jobs to only -219,000 jobs. This month's are only -190,000 jobs.
Yes, it's still negative, but if you look at the beginning of the year (when we were losing more than 500,000 jobs per month) it's one hell of a turn around.
You have to remember, when you're turning around an economy of this size, NOTHING happens instantly - and it would have been a hell of a lot worse without the stimulus efforts (whether you like to admit that or not).
Yes, it's the worst economy in 26 years - since Reagan was in office and it took him more than 2 years to turn THAT economy around (with massive deficit spending, I might add).
#23 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:55 AM ESTEb, by your calculations, 2 years will be up the end of this quarter, that said let's give him another 2 quarters till the end of June. As far as massive deficit spending, I think as a percentage of GDP Obama is ahead of the 80s. We shall see.
yes and then 30 years of prosperity.
The quarterback said to the coach "Last time we played this team we lost 54 to 10. This time we lost 24 to 17, look how far we've come.
The coach said to the quarterback "We still lost".
See my post #1.15
The farmer said to the people, "I've could only grow enough food for half of you". Half the people starved to death.
The next year the farmer said, "I've grown enough food for all".
Ebeneezer Goode "Yes, it's the worst economy in 26 years - since Reagan was in office and it took him more than 2 years to turn THAT economy around (with massive deficit spending, I might add)."
Another fact to throw in, Congress, which authorizes spending, was in control of Congress during when Reagan, both Bush's and Obama massively increased deficit spending.
Sparc. I'll give you that one....Congress is ALWAYS full of @!$%#heads.
Part of the problem is that as soon as they get in, they have to campaign again - and they don't want to risk losing an election by doing what's right.
Frankly. I think term limits are in order.
No more than ONE consecutive term for Senators (or make them appointed by the state legislatures again)
No more than TWO consecutive terms for Representatives (or just extend their ONE term to 3 years).
If they want back in, they gotta wait one term in between to run again.
At least that way once they take their oaths they can FOCUS ON DOING THE COUNTRY'S WORK CORRECTLY THE FIRST TIME - and not on getting their campaign war-chests full instead.
Lipstick on a pig much?
Dip poop in sugar, it's still poop.
Fact: If Obama had not crammed through a 100% deficit spending $787 billion payback for the people that got him elected while making all sorts of promises to obfuscate the true purpose of said bill, and wasn't now lying about the outcomes of said massive pork spending, people might - MIGHT - be a little more patient and forgiving.
Fact: If Obama was not INSISTING on cramming through two massive legislative overreaches via Health Scare and Crap & Tax, companies might hire.
Instead he's creating an intentional fiscal death spiral.
I believe he could be impeached now, for sedition - look it up if you don't know what it is. We'll have to wait till his buddies are voted out next year for that. I hope we last that long.
Pragma:
Sedition (according to the UCMJ) is:
"Any person subject to this chapter who with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of lawful civil authority, creates, in concert with any other person, revolt, violence, or other disturbance against that authority is guilty of sedition;" (U.S. Code, Title 10, Subtitle A, Part II, Chapter 47, Subchapter X, Sect. 894, Art. 94, (a), (2) )
Hmm....wait a minute...That's not what Obama's doing!
Job losses for the last three months are declining because there are fewer areas that companies can cut and still survive. Most are approaching the bare minimum of people necessary to operate for survival. That is why profits are temporarily up and Wall Street is calling this a recovery. Gross revenue of most companies has actually declined but profits are up due to cost cutting. Wait until the first quarter of 2010 is reported and then you will see the profits tank and the market collapse again. Just my opinion....
impeach obama!!! your so-called change is destroying the USA! please go back to kenya and take care of your family.
#24 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:57 AM ESTthe fact is this economy will struggle for a long time under any administration because the damage is done. But Obama and the Democrats socialism must be stopped .
#25 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:58 AM ESTBush and Obama both screwed up.. Thank god I didn't vote for either one.. Didn't vote for a Dem or Rep.. and never will again.. unless there is a Perot/Paul or Paul/Perot ticket.
The problem is not only caused by Bush or Obama. The problem is the mistake of inflating bank credit for 50 years non-stop. The downturn is the result of our own actions. An entire nation cannot borrow for 50 years and then expect that all will be fine when the pay back time arrives. FED policies have inflated bank credit for decades. When we borrow, banks create new money. They do NOT lend existing money. Here is how banks create money out of thin air:
http://www.tradingstocks.net/html/banks_create_money.html
Our entire money supply is borrowed money. When we borrowed, we promised to pay back principal + interest. The problem is the interest portion is not even created yet. The ponzi scheme must continue with even more borrowing so that principal + interest exists in the future so that people can earn it and pay it back.
Do you see the problem with this picture? What happens when borrowing stops? The expectation that principal + interest will be available to earn cannot be realized. People start having difficulty paying their debt. When people see this, they start saving. When banks see this, they stop lending. Deflation kicks in with full power. When the money supply shrinks, it is not possible to employ people at the current salary levels. We borrowed for decades and inflated the money supply and the prices and salaries along with it. All prices and salaries around you are based on an ever expanding bank credit assumption. But bank credit is deflating. Look at the FED chart for Total Bank Credit:
http://www.tradingstocks.net/html/inflation_deflation_credit_bub.html
Government encouraged borrowing by allowing to deduct mortgage interest for income tax. Then when they ran out of borrowers they allowed sub-prime. They removed 20% down requirement, so that bigger amount could be borrowed by more people. This is why the government offers 8K home credit, so that people borrow and inject new money into the economy. Here is how the government ran the ponzi scheme:
http://www.tradingstocks.net/html/housing_market_bubble_bust_cyc.html
FED works for the banks. It was created by the banks. It is bailing out the banks at the expense of tax payer. Our financial sector is too large for the real economy to carry. Instead of letting the financial sector to shrink, they are letting the productive portion of the economy carry the burden of the crash. There will NOT be a recovery until we let the zombie banks go away or they will continue to suck the blood of the economy. All the money is going to the financial sector that cannot produce anything.
An entire population cannot get wealthy by trading paper, flipping homes, investing in granite counter tops. Everybody hopes to sell high at the stock market. That won't happen. By definition, for every seller at the top, there is a buyer. This is a zero sum game. When we read the news now, they will say DOW is 10000 and wealth has increased. No, nothing has increased. Stock holders do not have money until they sell. And well they all sell, they are not going to get the price they hope for. Look how high the stock prices are:
http://www.tradingstocks.net/html/near_bottom.html
Borrowed money cannot make a recovery. What is a recovery? Recovery is when we produce a real product in 1 hour and exchange it with another product that another nation produced in a month! That is increase in wealth. That is productivity. We are going the opposite direction! Innovation is not happening in America. Giving banks free money is not recovery. It merely transfers wealth from tax payer / savers to the banks. And they pay big bonusses to themselves. There is no recovery. There is only robbery!
Prepare yourself for the coming crash. Economy is not as good as the stock market tells! The crash will go into history books.
http://www.tradingstocks.net/html/prepare_for_market_crash.html
Unemployment is not the problem! It is the symptom of a deflating money supply. What is borrowed, will be paid back one way or another. It is not possible to avoid the downturn!
None of Obama's policies are socialistic! I love how the right casually throws out the word socialism, along with communism and facsism. They're all a bunch of Joe McCarthy clones!
Steve..Joe McCarthy is hated by the left because he exposed them as the communists they are. I think he was a patriot, though ham handed. We need McCarthy clones now to fight fire with fire. Obama's, and his cronies', words and actions prove indisputably that they are commies. So you obviously don't understand the definitions of those words you use, or the threat to freedom they represent. Face reality.
Like little 3 year olds with fingers in your ears, I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you, it’s Bush’s fault, it’s Bush’s fault, yada yada yada. What should we do? It’s simple, let the wealthy be wealthy. The super-rich will always have their money, there’s nothing you can do about it and the quicker you realize it the better. Stealing from those with tons of cash through higher taxes, penalties and regulation in hopes of giving it to those without results in only one thing, the people with money leave. They take their companies, their jobs, their families, their money and head to places where they are allowed to be wealthy. Not all wealthy people are greedy; some just have lifestyles above yours, WAY above yours. No need to be jealous or angry it’s always been this way and it will always be this way, deal with it. There’s nothing you can do about it. If you want to be wealthy then do what it takes to be wealthy. Come up with something that people need and sell it to them; otherwise be happy there are people out there willing to take risks in order for you to have a job. Eliminate the corporate tax rate. Let companies and the people that own them keep their money and they’ll come back. For there to be rich there needs to be poor, for there to be tall there needs to be short, for there to be fat there needs to be skinny, for there to be night there has to be day, for there to be smart there needs to be Obama and Pelosi. I’m just about fed up with the whacko left; I might just start supporting those on the right. That's change I can believe in...
#26 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:58 AM ESTA lot of truth to what you are saying. Sure I wish the world was fairer. But unless we truly want to go socialist the reality is that those who own businesses and decide when and how many people to hire probably don't feel real confident with Mr. Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Barney Frank, running the show. I imagine a lot of business owners are going to "hunker down" hoping a more business freindly Congress comes in next year.
Love your handle... and quite fitting. We are seeing more and more like you out there. Most honest people do what they can to help those who honestly need help. But the politicians who derive their power by promoting class warfare are slugs. Demonize people who hard and try their best to take care of their own families but, never ask anything of those who benefit except for their votes.
I feel confident... that my costs are going to skyrocket, sales decline, and that I need to layoff more... People voted for change, let them wait in the unemployment line, rather than go o work.
Ima Democrat:
You are also a voice of reason, and a very refreshing one I might add. Extremes of any kind should almost always be avoided, and that is especially true of left-right extremists. TRUTH is most often found somewhere between the extremes, and it's just sad the multitudes can't seem to realize that.
Personally, like you I'm more conservative in my thinking than I am liberal. For me Parties just don't matter any more and haven't for quite some time. Each politician needs to be judged based on their personal philosophy and ideology. Each party has become dominated by the extremists and look where that has taken us.
Nice post, at least I know I'm not alone in my own thinking :)
Ima, last time I checked, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Al Soros, and all the others on the list of richest Americans over the past 20 or so years are all still happiliy residing in the USA, paying their taxes. Can you back up your rhetoric by giving some examples of extremely wealthy people who have left the country to avoid paying taxes? I understand your line of thought, just don't think it's true.
I think that many, if not most, people who are extremely wealthy are thankful to live in the USA and do not begrudge the taxes they must pay to support our way of life. They would never consider abandoning their US citizenship as a way to avoid paying taxes. In fact, some have suggested they should probably be paying higher taxes.
Come now.. I thought you on the fringe left were the deep thinkers. Take a moment and step back from the written word and try listening or understanding an opposing philosophy. When the gov't raises taxes on those evil rich people the rich have 2 choices, raise the price of what they are selling or accept a lesser standard of living based on not having as much money. Now you know they aren't going to lower their standard of living. That you just have to deal with. So to keep the standard of living they're used to they have to raise the price of what they sell, often they can't do that because the market won't accept an increase. So to absorb the attack on their wealth they look for ways to lower costs in order to keep their profit margin at what they believe to be an acceptable level. No easier way to lower costs than to move operations to lower cost countries aka move jobs. To continue this hatred of those who fuel the economy is nothing short of economic suicide. Details? I thought you on the crazy left had all the details of all the jobs heading overseas at least that's what I heard during Obama's campaign...
Ima, under supply and demand prices are set by the market. suppliers balance the price they charge against sales volume to generate the most profit. Any supplier will always charge the highest price that the market will bear. The notion that producers raise their prices in response to tax increases is silly right wing rhetoric. What keeps Exxon from raising fuel prices??? It's competition, it's not because Exxon is not greedy. You righties think you understand economics because silly arguments make sense to you.
I noticed you failed to come up with one example of your earlier silly claim that the wealthy will leave this country if taxes are raised. The fact that this argument makes sense to you has no relation to whether or not it's true.
joe mota,
I have one question; have you ever called the MSN help desk? You will get some guy you can't hardly understand... but his "name" happens to be Bob. Yeah... like my name is Habib... Still think Bill Gates hasn't moved off shore? He hasn't but his operation has. You kool aid drinkers can not be that dumb and still be breathing. Ima has hit the nail on the head. Please bring back the Kennedy democrat. Socially central, fiscally responsible, and constitutionally vigilant. The democrat party has been hijacked by every left wing nut-bag group out there, because the politician has sold his sole and your country for a vote!
kwkrnu,
we were not discussing transfer of jobs from the US to overseas, but Ima's claim that the wealthy move out of the country because of high taxes....outsourcing is different. Costs are cheaper overseas for a lot of reasons mostly having to do with their lower standard of living and our definition of free trade.
Goodness joe mota, you're helpless... Again step away from the light and try using that stuff stuck between your ears. No, not the gooey brown stuff that sticks to your fingers when their stuck in your ears, I mean your brain. Your understanding of economics is myopic and strange. Like a true lefty wing-nut you get stuck on something and won't let go of it because that would force you to face reality. All I'm trying to say is the far-left's desire to punish business / wealth does nothing but force them to move to places that aren't as combative toward business / wealth. Take tax hell anti-business Wisconsin for instance. Mercury Marine was going to shut down their corp HQ and main mfg facility in Fond du Lac, WI and move the entire operation to Oklahoma. Merc felt it could lower costs and become more competitive in a down market moving it's operation to a more business freindly Oklahoma. What happened? Merc decided to stay in WI only because the union voted to accept Merc's needed wage concessions. Again, Merc, it's investors, it's owners have profit expectations, as long as those profit expectations are met there's no problem. It's when you whacko lefty robin hood types can't keep your grubby paws off other peoples hard work is when problem start. Let people with money keep their money aka be business friendly. Declaring war on success is useless...
Ima, you're all over the map...first you make the claim that the wealthy are leaving the country because of high taxes, and are unable to give one example to back it up, then you switch to unions preventing job loss by giving wage concessions, then you'er back to attacking lefty robin hood types with grubby paws on other peoples hard work by which I assume you're referring to taxes. You're all wound up attacking some concept of lefty liberalism that some right winger shoved down your throat and convinced you that anyone that doesn't gleefully swallow every bit of right wind koolaid is. I would probably be against that far left whacko person you have in mind, too. Still, you have no evidence that the wealthy are leaving the country because of high taxes, which was your original sin. You want me to agree with you? Don't spew out idle speculation with no backup.
R. what are you, the peanut gallery?
Wait a minute, I thought the report yesterday for the over 200 point market ralley was based on the decline in unemployment figures. Now today there are headlines that it is up. Somebody needs to get their crap together, I guess if the market went up 200 for a positive report yesterday then it is likely to drop 300 points for the supidity of yesterdays LIE
#27 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:58 AM ESTNew one from our favorite legislators! Bend over Barney and I like sweetheart deals, Dodd, put forth legislation that will "dissolve" the FDIC and FED and have the govt oversee the banks!!! Hmmmm/ This is change you can believe in!!!!
Very comforting knowing Obummer and his corrupt buddies having your financial info at their fingertips.
#28 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 8:58 AM ESTWhat did you expect from a corrupt Chicago machine politico?
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