Ford reports surprise $1 billion profit

Walt....What is their recourse? Would you suggest they go to the Feds for money like the others did, oh the others cut wages & benefits also!

The unions were instrumental in the death of the other two, and you would like to see them kill Ford too, wouldn't you?

Did you READ the article? The union employees are already overpaid versus the other two manufacturers. They rejected the package based a proposed freeze to entry level wages. Not a reduction in current wages, a freeze on future hires. People across this country are getting their wages reduced, by 100% - but god forbid the UAW agreed to a freeze on new hire wages. They're spoiled rotten, their time has passed and the more they whine and demand more more more, the less sympathy anyone will have for them.

Bravo, Ford. Bravo. My next car will be Ford, no question about it.

clyde-296445

No, just pay their workers instead of trying to use this crisis to extort more concession, and ford workers have also given up wages and benefits for the last five years, and like all of us face cost of living that continues to go. Hell people are being asked to work for $12-15 dollars an hour or less in the general work force, I made that 30 years ago in general work, this is ridiculous, people defending the continued assault on middle class wage workers.

And nearly $1B in profit, yet they still have $26B in debt? It seems to me that some slick accounting was done there to report any profit. Until that debt is paid off, there is NO profit, is there? It is an accounting ploy to be able to boost their shareholder's income and sell more stock at a higher rate.

Walt -40

Screw you and the unions. How about the 18 billion Ford has for a debt.

Actually, you are way low on the debt afloatinasea.

Ford also has $26.9 billion in debt, up $800 million from the second quarter.

anti-trust

Thank you for the correction.

anti-trust

Thank you for the correction.

Congratulations Ford! When it comes time next year for me to buy another vehicle it will be a Ford.

I think it is great that the union denied the cost cuts at Ford. It will only further deteriorate poeples opinions of unions. The days of the $35 per hour janitor are soon to be over. Its about time!!

Yes, Ford's debt ROSE 800 milion for the quarter, is that subtracted from the profit or not. Those wise-guy accountant have too many columbs and sometimes do not make them all add up to one uniform number. My thinking is you cannot raise your debt and show a profit at the same time. Profit loss is a single number bottom line, am I worth more now then before. I can't tell with so many odd numbers flying around.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/invsub/results/statemnt.aspx?Symbol=F&lstStatement=Balance&stmtView=Qtr

If one actually looks at the balance sheet, they have 133 billion in long term debt. But that's actually quite common for a large company.

They have 150 billion in annual sales. You have to have lots of operations that are going on that have to be financed by debt.

It's actually down from the peak of 171 billion in 2006, and they have been deligently cutting it. Ford is the only American car company to be taking the right steps to insure future employment of its workers. And IMO they've produced cars that are now better than the competition.

The Ford Fusion, simply put, is the best car in its class in the world. Better than Accord, Better than Camry. Most Americans still don't believe it as you can see from:

http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html

As you can see, the Fusion is way down the list. I think that will change over time with a rebound in belief of this manufacturer.

That statement doesn't include the Q3 results yet. But they still have 24 billion in cash/short investments on hand, which means they don't need any money from anyone.

I agree that it's great to make a profit, but it has to be a consistent profit to retire the debt. Once that is done, look at the expense sheet and decide on fair employee compensation (and don't under fund any commitments!!).

I am glad to hear this good news about Ford. I feel that Ford, in not taking bailout money, has been put in the same position that a lot of private insurances will be, if the public option insurance is passed into law: Private, and up against a government subsidized competitor. I hope that they succeed and prove that private enterprise can beat government run, even when subsidized. And by government run, I mean the board appointed by federally approved bureaucrats and subject to sporadic government edict.

My next new car purchase will be a Ford. I support free, private enterprise.

Go Ford!!

Walt - the unions have been the death of the other two remaining US car companies and now they, once again, short-sighted.

The UAW is the scum of the earth. At one point in time, a union was a good thing, but the UAW prostituted itself and in the process, screwed themselves, the car companies, and America.

Go Ford!

anti-trust-

Take an accounting class.

anti-trust - I agree with Deke. You lack fundemental understanding. If the government didn't run a deficit, like it did in the late Clinton years, we still had a national debt. Duh...

Walt -

You epitomize the reason for my disdain of unions. The economy is not recovering yet, despite media spin, and Ford, a company that took the high road and made better decisions, happened to make a profit. Despite the obstacles that they've faced they made a profit and immediately upon discovery, some already overpaid union moron comes on here and announces that it is an injustice that Ford has yet to pass that profit on to the unions. Most Americans do not get raises when the industry they are working in is on life support. GM can't seem to operate without a government subsidy and you want Ford to make the same stupid decisions which ultimately will result in the taxpayers having to bail them out; which means my money will go to the same unions that I abhor. I am so far beyond annoyed with you people; I am absolutely amazed and appalled by this ridiculous sense entitlement you seem to posess.

Yea, in the meantime, Detroit is left in shambles.

And I will buy a Ford for my next vehicle. (Never thought I'd be saying that.)

I figured it out, why Ford made a profit. The Company isn't run by Obama and the Democrats! Plus they don't have a Car CZAR ruining things.

Dear Mr. Ford Co.,

My socialist staff and I think you made your money off the backs of the poor and you don't treat your union workers real good, they should own more of your company. We also think you made to much loot and need to distribute the profits to the less fortunate, like the government program ACORN.

Think about this or else.

Sincerely,

The Newly Selected

Advise to FORD --

WATCH YOUR BACK

They will be coming after you - successful capitalistic corporations MUST BE DESTROYED -

Just be careful - be very very careful.

Nice job BTW

Clearly, profit is simply unacceptable..., Ford needs Government involvement immediately!

We must destroy those evil profits. Otherwise we will have a bunch of rich guys running around spending money and energizing the economy.

It amazes me that some people would prefer for everyone to live in mediocrity than allow some to be more successful than others. Must be because they feel the are mediocre and are jealous.

Meanwhile OM (Obama Motors) continues to bleed red ink.

UAW sucks!

Way to go Ford, sometimes the going gets tough but the tough don't buckle and start sucking on the government teat!

General Motors needs to fail, so does Obama's sophomoric approach to economics.

ontime,

You sir are a idiot.

You guys are pretty funny... great twists of reality (the 6+ posts starting with Chuck).

Like I posted in another thread, we need to remember just how close Ford came to needing and taking help from the government. They were in much better shape than Chrysler and GM, and were able to create a plan... one based on some pretty iffy sales projections, but a sound plan...

Great job Ford! Let's get that debt ratio down and we'll feel even better!

And contrary to the "twisters", above, Ford's recovery is not inconsistent with the current administration's economic policies. Its even stated by Ford that the cash-for-clunkers program helped.

And luckily, they still have an economy left to sell into.

Anti-Trust debt is a liability not an expense. The profits says they have some cushion they didn't have, and by no means means throw and extravagent party. The Union only looks at profits. If there is a profit, I want a piece of it. Who cares if the company is actually bankrupt on the balance sheet.

Ford can afford to give a little, but not verry much until their debt is paid down more or they will be continually in trouble.

Chuck H-316019

No Ford should thank Obama they made a profit at all.

macaddict -

If you're going to call someone an idiot, I feel that the overused derogatory term would be far more effective if you used proper grammar within your five word sentence; just a thought.

so....do you have a better idea??? Capitalism is a system that works. Now if mankind forgets their values and trust in God --no system is going to do well.

I say GOOD for Ford!!!! We "Do NOT need BIG Brother/Government!!!

Yep! The unions want to kill them like the other two. They didn't take taxpayer dollars, now the unions want part of the company (with Obama's help, they will get it)

I think these employee's should be happy they have a job, imagine all those that would gladly take less pay to replace them, it's a dog eat dog world right now so count your blessings ..........

I guess people would rather buy from a privately owned company than Government Motors (GM).

Creative number juggling to suit PR for Stockholders and Govt bailout agents! If anyone thinks that these numbers are for real they are inhaling Carbon Monoxide straight from Detroit!

Good for Ford !!! They didn't take the bailout money from my pocket and the pockets of my children and survived the downturn. And have turned a profit to boot !!!

I haven't owned a Ford since my high school days, but would definitely take a look at what they have to offer the next time my family needs a car.

Shame on anyone writing on this site who chooses to insult Ford over it's "capitalism". It'll be sour grapes enough when the White House starts call the company "greedy" or whatever other slime they choose to throw on the company. Yes folks....businesses are built to make "profits" for their investors and to help them expand their markets. Businesses are not built to cater to union demands...despite what the president or other union hacks might believe.

Good for you Ford Motor Company....I guess you did have "a better idea" after all.

What the hell are you people talking about the union didn't ask for anything, they just refused to take any more cuts then they have already have taken in the past year alone, are all you people rich ? or do you just believe we should work for pay scales in line with India for the sake of Wall Street ?.

SB, they're publicly traded. This article is based on their reporting for shareholders.

I've linked a Wall Street Journal article twice.

I don't see many Fords around our area. It's Toyota brands, Honda, Hyundai, and other foreign made cars.

Ford was smart to stay away from a Government buyout. They have a good product.

Notice all the "over advertising" of GM cars in newspapers, magazines, all of media?

Obama is into heavy advertising for his Government owned Company. Who's going to profit from sales? Detroit has been destroyed. How many workers have jobs with GM?

Unemployment is going to reach 11 per cent soon, with Detroit at a much higher rate.

Obama, Santa Claus at the White House.

If the unions are a problem, why does Ford sign a contract with them?

Palco, what people probably believe is that based on this article, the Ford employees are already better paid than the other two, and they're not being asked to take a pay cut.

They're being asked to accept a freeze (not a reduction) on new-hire starting wages, and unspecified restrictions on strikes.

Is that REALLY so much to ask, when millions of people DON'T HAVE JOBS, that these guys be expected to give a little more - everyone else in America is having to do so, why shouldn't they?

Oh, wait, unless you're an FOO and get some stimulus to give your people raises.

Come ON.

"If the unions are a problem, why does Ford sign a contract with them?"

It's hard to make cars when none of your workers are there to make them.

Hiring who ever you want to work for you is a right. I will never buy GM or Chrysler again. 

Palco,

I think that Ford should pay their workers what the market will bear. A profit in light of a larger outstanding debt is a good sign, but until the debt is clear, the car company is still a cash "borrower". Should the company borrow more, in order to pay it's employees more? I think a reasonable company would try to control its costs (labor included) so that it can right itself. Once not longer in debt, and still turning a profit, then talk about paying its employees better.

I sympathize with the plight of the auto worker, but this problem has been created in part by the representation of the auto worker (UAW). I think some common fiscal sense has to prevail in order to make this work. I would love to see Ford make a great turn-around, and be able to reward its employees handsomely.

See what happens when you keep Government out of your business! No palco Obama does not get credit for this, the CEO of Ford Does!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did a mini vacation over the weekend. 3 out of 4 vehicles were Ford (2 Fusions and my 19 year old Ranger). Saw a lot of Rangers even older than mine still puttin' along. I'll try to keep things in perspective (because I'm glad they have avoided a bailout) but I was annoyed with the UAW workers and the way they rejected this compromise. I'd still buy a Ford before a Government Motors or Moparts but if Hyundai comes out with a simple four cylinder pickup I'll definitely take a look!!

Did a mini vacation over the weekend. 3 out of 4 family vehicles were Ford (2 Fusions and my 19 year old Ranger). Saw a lot of Rangers even older than mine still puttin' along. I'll try to keep things in perspective (because I'm glad they have avoided a bailout) but I was annoyed with the UAW workers and the way they rejected the compromise. I'd still buy a Ford before a Government Motors or Moparts but if Hyundai comes out with a simple four cylinder pickup I'll definitely take a look!!

hmmmmm, Made 1 Billion in profit, but yet they are trying to reduce the wages and benefits of their manufacturing employees.......Sounds like good ole Capitalism to me!!!!!

"But Ford still faces obstacles in its turnaround. Last week, workers overwhelmingly rejected an agreement with the United Auto Workers that would have brought Ford's labor costs in line with rivals General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC. Workers objected to clauses limiting their right to strike and freezing entry-level wages, and felt the company was healthy enough and didn't need further concessions."

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't that mean Ford employees get more than GM and Chrysler? Sure, they were trying to do what GM and Chrysler had done, but in this economy you gotta do what is necessary to survive. So Walt, I do not understand where you are coming from.

I don't own a vehicle, but if I ever buy one it will be a Ford.

I am glad to hear that Ford has done well. I purchased a new ford at the beginning of this year. Taurus X it is great one of the best things I have done. Unions have done a lot of harm not just to only the auto makers but all of the manufacturing jobs that have now gone overseas or south of the border. I can remember when Guys on the line made 15 and hour getting full benefits including a retirement program in the 70's. We are talking full health, optical and Dental with little to no deductible and that was not enough. I would die to have what they had. They were also able to support a household in those days. I would die to have what they help throw away over greed. BTW I grew up in the Heart of Michigan and UAW at that time frame

Again congratulations FORD!!!!

The interest on the borrowed money given for cash for clunkers bail outs home buyer tax credit etc. is double that of the profits and tax revenue generated. So we are on the same path to destruction treating borrowed money as income/wealth. Ford is on a slippery slope there debt to income ratio is way to high.They better pay down the debt because we all know who controls the banks They can jack rates of interest just a little and sink there ship.

Isn't "SIR" a big word for a humorless lib?????

Libs love to make you listen while the tell you all about what they do not know and then say it like it ws writen in stone.

They still have to compete with the company that Obama bought with our tax dollars though. GMAC "Get more Americans Cash" I think is the name of his new company

Walt, having once been a card carrying die hard union member, union members (no all) believe the company they work for owe them something. Guaranteed employment, company paid benefits, come to work and do less than my peers and still reap the rewards, collect a pay check, consider my personal life and welfare when reducing the work force, split the company profits with the rest of the workers.

When people are members of a union, they forget that the union is a BUSINESS. Membership matters when the contract is gong to expire. Then every member is important. Going out on strike EVERYONE LOOSES! The member is told to use their personal money to pay mortgage/rent, childcare expenses, medical expenses, food, etc., etc., etc. Having paid dues involuntarily seems a bit harsh. What makes sense is pay the striking member at least a hundred dollars a week. Is that to much to ask? Of course it is. the union is not responsible for your personal life or expenses. They want your membership. Breaking the backs of companies is their moto. Bringing this capitalist company they work for to it's knees? Officers of the union are the only ones who get over when members strike. Once members strike no matter how many years worked, or what percentage increase in wages or benefits are gained, lost wages CAN NEVER BE RECOVERED! They are gone forever. Do the math and see if what is gained is more than what is lost.

If the company goes out of business, then what. People loose their jobs. So, if anyone who is against CAPITALISM, START YOUR OWN BUSINESS, RUN YOUR COMPANY THE WAY YOU WANT, MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS YOU CHOOSE and then tell your workers when things get tough, sorry, but wages and hours need to be reduce so the company you run can survive the tough times.

When union members have finally taken the keys to the throne, what will they do? Is the union going to run the business and will the union pay it's members more than the previous employer? Will members still keep their company paid benefits? Paid vacation? Seniority? Will the union join in agreement that they can do a better job than the previous employer.

Finally, what is more important. Having a job to go to that will allow a person to take care of themselves and family or breaking the company & squeeze every nickle and dime because the company OWES THEM. Or does the employee owe it to themselves to be responsible for their well being? The company owes a person wages for time worked. Benefits are not a condition of employment but a bonus for working for the company. Making sure the employee is trained and have the tools necessary to perform their jobs effectively. A safe clean environment, depending on the company, a break room for the employee, and restroom facilities. Anything above this is at the companies discretion and expense.

Why has this became a discussion of pro or con union activity. Apparently the management at Ford is dealing with the unions and making a profit. Should the other 2 pay attention. You betcha they should. GM lost control of their customer service a long time ago. Have dealt with both and GM sucked out loud. I am not the only one that has put GM on their do not go list apparently.

Believe me, Pres. Obama has got his "eye" on taking over Ford, too, as Government owned..

It's just a matter of time, O being patient while Ford sales will also tumble in this Depression.

Hard economic times, unemployment, and no money mean consumers don't buy new cars.

Is the 6 billion dollar profit a success, because of the Clunker for Cash program?.

Just wait.

From personal sources of mine, he's already got his claws in the future, to take over all Mortgage Company Lender Businesses owned by banks, leaving just the Government owned banks to do Loans for houses and refinances. It's going to happen.

Unfortunately, I've worked in the air cargo mfg industry for 14 years. So as it has tanked since 911, we've taken cuts to salary and benefits to try to keep afloat. We downsized and each did the jobs of 5 plus people to keep the doors open.

Just when we had turned things around and began making a profit again and increased our market share, we were bought out by a competitor that is the joke of the industry. They gobbled us up and spit all of us out. This is my last week, I'm being terminated. 56 y/o with a terminal illness and planned to work until I couldn't. I'd be happy just to say I HAVE A JOB and could live with a freeze.

If I could afford to buy a new car, it would be a Ford. Keep it up!

and they did it w/out taking billions like the other companies that were "too big to fail." pelosi and the red guard conned the new kid again.

Wow, reading these comments and how many think union workers are highly overpaid is telling. I think I also see most of you getting your knickers in a twist when someone tries to cut the outrageous pay of CEO's, many of you defend that. What gives? Do republicans hate middle America? Because it sure seems like it.

Capitalism by itself unregulated is not a healthy thing. We are experiencing the result of it now. However, over regulation is also not so healthy, because it restrictss evolution and innovation.

Right now, I believe we are very far right leaning. We need to regulate these corporations that are taking advantage of deregulations that they have heavily lobbied for over the years. I am not singling out Ford, but Auto and Fianance industries.

You can bet now that they showed a profit, the union will be trying to figure out a way to suck it out of them

It's the CEO's who need to take a cut, thier salaries are ridiculous even if they did make a profit. The head of ford makes something like 117 million a year. Give me a break! Knock 17 mill off that and a few mill off all the other bigshots and they probably could have cleared another quarter billion. Compare that to knockin off a couple thousand a year to the people who actually do the work. Whoa, I said union and work in the same breath.

Good for Ford!!

However, some of these posts miss a point. The Union rejected a deal restricting new hire pay ...that I can see as rather rediculous to reject. Now, the other point in the deal restricting the Unions ability to strike ??? that IS A BIG DEAL. Why is it a big deal today, in this economy? When most unions would be flat out crazy to strike??

What good is a union without the ability to strike? What is then, thier level of last recourse??They become a weak place for thier employees to just throw money at. Most Unions that can't strike are woefully weak.

Some people would prefer we go back to the 1890's with people not making living wages and working conditions totally uncontrolled. But hey, then we'll probably get our manufacturing back from China. When our workers are on par with the third world, some here will then be happy.

But when we are all reduced to third world wages. Who will buy the Autos? Who will be the consumers for all our right wing business owners products??? They love to hate thier own working class customers.

Gee see what happens when the free market forces you to make the tough choices? GM and Chrysler haven't yet and never will while they're enjoying the free money drug from Obama...

They are still in debt.

If they were smart... they'd leave dearborn, setup shop in a  right to work state like Texas... and the tell the unions and other socialist nitwits to stick it...

PragmaticToAFault

If as you say a (temporary) pay freeze then I agree, I may have misunderstood. I have never said stimulus money should go for pay raises. There seems to be the assumption that the free markets and free enterprise can solve this crisis, my problem is the premise is flawed, we don't have free markets and free enterprise, we have an unregulated market welfare system.

ahhh, a beautiful example of the adage "statistics are like prostitutes, once you buy them, you can do anything you like with them." 2/3 of this profit was from Ford Credit, which is a business they should NOT be in. They should not be a bank and a manufacturer. Period. Plus, nowhere was it mentioned how much of their outstanding debt is unfunded liabilities to pensions. I'd bet it's a pretty sizeable amount. And they only made a profit for one quarter, they will still be deep in the red for the year when it's all said and done. They are still a company that is run in a manner that makes drug dealers look like business geniuses by comparison.

Lets focus here. Ford did not show a profit because the Union. They showed a profit becauase the management started a fundemental shift in their approach toward production.

So you wack jobs constantly thinking that the Union is the source of all evils, you are sadly mistaken. If you are thinking that Ford did this despite the Union, then you as investors and capitalists should have held the FORD and GM management to the fire long ago. YOU GUYS LOST FOCUS and are simply trying to shift blames again.

MSNBC: "The earnings came despite an $800 million revenue drop. But Ford said it cut costs by $1 billion during the quarter, accomplished through layoffs in North America and Europe, reduced pension and retiree health care costs and improvements in productivity and product development."

Awesommmeeee! More people like you and me out of work so that the CEO's and Wall Street can make even MORE $$!

When the media use phrases like "cost cutting" it's speaking in code. They really mean: Laying people like YOU off and/or cutting your benefits. Looks like the auto workers finally saw through the BS because they rejected the sell-out contract that the UAW and Ford (and the media) was trying to force on them. Here's the story:

The "No" vote at Ford

2 November 2009
By Joe Kishore

The decisive vote by Ford workers to reject the concessions contract worked out between the company and the United Auto Workers is a major advance not only for Ford workers, but for all auto workers and the working class as a whole, both in the US and internationally.

The resounding "No" vote about, 75 percent overall and over 90 percent at several locals demonstrated great determination and courage in the face of threats and intimidation by the company, the union and the media. The vote has underscored the fact that the working class is prepared to fight to defend its jobs and living standards, and that the main obstacles to waging such a struggle are the so-called "unions" such as the UAW, which function as business partners and industrial police of the corporations.

The vote is an expression of growing resistance in the working class to soaring unemployment, wage cuts and speedup, on the one side, and government bailouts for the banks and record bonuses for Wall Street, on the other. The vote at Ford will encourage workers throughout the auto industry and in other sections of the economy to take a similar stand against attacks by the corporations, backed by the Obama administration.

The vote is a historical milestone. It is the first rejection of a national contract since 1982, and the first at Ford since 1976. In the intervening three decades, the UAW has devoted all of its energies to suppressing the resistance of auto workers. It has helped push through repeated wage and benefit concessions, while overseeing the destruction of hundreds of thousands of jobs. Some 750,000 auto jobs have been wiped out, including more than 130,000 at Ford alone.

It is not a question of pressuring the UAW or voting in "new leadership," as advocated by various dissident factions within the UAW apparatus. The UAW is a union in name only. It is a major shareholder of the Big Three auto companies. Its finances and the salaries of its executives are dependent on the ability of the auto companies to extract greater profits by cutting jobs and wages and increasing the exploitation of the workers.

It is necessary for workers to act independently. Ford workers should establish rank-and-file committees in opposition to the UAW. A campaign should be developed throughout the auto industry to prepare strike action and plant occupations to reverse the wage and benefit cuts already imposed and halt layoffs and plant closures.

The latest attacks on auto workers have been orchestrated by the Obama administration. Despite promises of "change," one of Obama's first actions was to demand that workers at GM and Chrysler accept new cuts in wages and benefits, while forcing through a bankruptcy process that has resulted in the destruction of tens of thousands of jobs.

The contract repudiated by Ford workers was modeled on the concessions imposed at GM and Chrysler by Obama's auto task force. This was aimed at spearheading a broader assault on the wages and living standards of the working class as a whole. This is well underway. Since Obama forced GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy, wage-cutting has spread throughout every sector of the US economy.

Above all, auto workers confront the question of capitalism, a social system based on private ownership of the banks and corporations. Decisions that affect the lives of millions, including what goods are produced and how the resources of society are distributed, are made on the basis of how to best secure the wealth of a tiny layer of the population that controls the basic levers of economic life.

At least they didn't take a bailout, give them a chance. GM isn't doing such a great job BTW. I bought a 2010 Ford Taurus and it is one beautiful automobile now, hats off to the FoMoCo.

Bill Raymond, I believe you view of the situation is short sighted. I am for the Union. On the other hand, any of the failure of the auto industry will result with the current auto workers to end up with NOTHING. The retired ones will live off the pensions backed by our government... Given that as the scenario, it is ludicrous of what you are suggesting.

It is like people forgeting historical facts, and the roots of their problems. Unions are not inherently eveil, government are not inherently evil, corporations are not inherently evil, people are not inherently evil, so HOW DID WE GET HERE????

It is a slippery slope that we sit upon. It is never ONE THING that cause us to slip and slide.

clyde-296445

Oh so ford didn't benefit from the Obama administrations "Cash For Clunkers" ? , so if something works its not to the adminstration credit and whatever is wrong is the adminstration fault, by the way the Bush adminstration started the Auto bailouts.

Of course they benefited, so did GM and Chrysler. Who also benefited from billions of dollars of OUR money that Ford did NOT take, in addition to C4C. And they are still expected to fail within a year without paying us back, which they probably won't do even if they don't fail. Geithner is considering another $6-11 billion in handouts to GMAC.

Big picture, Palco. Big picture.

Congrats Ford. You did it without obaminism. Capitalism trumps socialism every time.

http://jalopnik.com/5395082/ford-posts-misleading-997-million-profit-still-down-13-billion-this-year/gallery/

Typical accounting & media hype...

Palco when you say "Bush started the bailouts" are you referring to that period of time when he was a lame duck president, democrats were running congress and B. Obama had won the Nov election? I think it's been referred to as Co-president........you know Bush was just doing what he was told....give me a break. You democrats own this bail out mess.

PragmaticToAFault

As I said I thought Chrysler's should go, if you let GM go at the same time the rippling effect would have been millions more jobs related to the auto business, and that includes all the other remaining companies, as they all share some mutual suppliers, the costs to the remaining companies would have been huge, look I don't like the bailouts, but the alternates that have been offered are useless, tax breaks for Wall Street and the large Corporations does little for the the engine of the economy ...middle class and small business. If you look at what the large corporations and especially the financials (banks, investment firms, & wall street) have done with their breaks it proves out, many jobs that have been lost by these institutions have been outsourced, there is no sense of shared rebuilding or any patriotic cooperation from these institutions for the better of our nation...only for profits and new overseas markets. Excuse my diversion from the subject matter.

Homie, I think everyone realizes that Ford has a huge amount of debt, and the claiming of a "profit" is somewhat misleading in the face of that.

How about realizing that the balance sheets at GM and Chrysler are ALL, 100% totally and completely RED, and billions is owed to the taxpayer?

Everything is relative, and relatively speaking Ford wins. Shove it, GM and Chrysler, and Obama. America is not buying what you're selling, on any level.

Way to go Ford! Great job!

But we all need to understand just how close they came to being just like GM... they were down to their last dime and came up with a plan that barely got them by... or don't we remember that?

Simply put, they were the stronger company before this mess hit and we/they are lucky to have made it through without a bailout. And, like some observe above, they and others need to learn from this and operate with less payouts and less debt... like the government does...not.

Pragmatic... Watch it... getting awfully close to name calling! lol.

Business 101, create a product that people want! The Ford Mustang is EVERYWHERE!!! The buying public LOVE that product! Basic supply & demand, create a GOOD, QUALITY product that appeals to your target market. Create the product with the best cost efficient measures and you have a profitable business.

Stop paying executives bonuses just because they have a title. Unions need to do their part when it comes to paying some "kid" $26 to push a broom across the manufacturer's floor because he's in the same union as the 15-year worker with specialized training.

millerz

You know this all is getting tiresome, The Republicans wrote and put through the Graham/Leech/Bailey bill and Clinton not only signed it but supported it, few Democrats voted for it, bag man Graham also put through the Commodities futures modification act, in which he buried deep in the spending bill a provision that states could not sue the Banking and Financial institutions with the states gaming and gambling laws ( I wonder why), and Bush signed supported and signed. Those two bills alone allowed all the rape , pillage, and plunder by the financial institutions that has occurred in this nation, yet to allow this to happen without any forcible resistance you needed a adminstration who would insure that the regulators of the oversight agencies would protect the financial institutions from any scrutiny, Mr Bush appointed heads of regulatory agencies that would ensure protection of the business's and areas that they have oversight, and not the American people and their government.

I have said all this to make it clear the crisis we are in is directly related to the Bush adminstration, while acknowledging there are many players who have laid the path for this destruction...Regan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush, but Bush Jr was the ultimate facilitator, Mr Obama is the guy who gets to put the mud in the holes of the dike, and by no means is responsible for this mess. If McCain had won he would be left holding the same bag of disasters that Obama has.

If you believe doing what the former controllers of the congress say...no stimulus, just give tax cuts, then refer me to an economist or explain your self how you would have stopped a declining economy at the monthly rate of 6.7% or so ( which are depression numbers) in December and January, and what would you have done to save the last manufacturing base left in this country. I'm all ears ?????

Sorry millerz but it appears Palco is right on this one. The bailout started over a year before Bush left office:

Date

Amount ($B)

Action

Agency

Notes

12/12/2007

375

Liquidity Swaps

Fed Reserve

The Fed swapped currency with central banks in Europe, Japan, and 11 other countries.

12/17/2007

448

Term Auction Facility

Fed Reserve

The Fed began lending money to companies other than commercial banks and began accepting collateral other than Treasury securities.

2/13/2008

168

Stimulus Package

Congress

President George W. Bush signed into law a measure that sent tax rebate checks of $300 to $1,200 to most households.

3/11/2008

115

Term Securities Lending Facility

Fed Reserve

The Fed began lending Treasury securities to banks for up to 28 days in exchange for mortgage-backed securities.

3/14/2008

29

Take over of Bear Stearns assets

Fed Reserve

The Fed helped engineer a takeover of failed Bear Stearns by rival JP Morgan Chase. Fed's assets from this deal were listed at $27B as of 12/31/08.

3/16/2008

25

Primary dealer support

Fed Reserve

The Fed helped 17 key financial institutions by provideing short-term loans in exchange for collateral through two new programs.

9/7/2008

85

Fannie Mae bailout

Treasury

The Treasury, having taken over mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, purchased certain mortgage-backed security and preferred shares.

9/16/2008

85

Support for AIG

Fed Reserve

The Fed authorized up to $85B in loans in exchange for an 80% equity stake in the struggling insurance giant.

9/19/2008

13

Money market funds

Fed Reserve

The Fed stepped in to provide liquidity for money market funds by financing purchases of "high quality" paper.

10/3/2008

700

Troubled Asset Relief Fund (TARF)

Treasury

President George W. Bush signed into law a hastily arranged measure providing up to $700B to rescue the floundering banking sector. Some TARP funds have been siphoned off to help insurance giant AIG and the auto industry.

10/7/2008

249

Commercial paper funding

Fed Reserve

The Fed stepped in to loan money to companies that were not able to get routine funding in the commercial markets. $249B is the balance as of 2/18/09.

11/8/2008

22.5

Support for AIG

Fed Reserve

The Fed authorized another 22.5B to buy mortgage-backed securities from AIG, which also got $40B in TARP funds.

11/23/2008

0 - 234

Rescue of Citigroup

Treasury

U.S. will absorb 90% of losses on certain troubled Citigroup assets.

11/25/2008

100

Mortage Market support

Fed Reserve

The Fed has purchased mortgage debt from government sponsored enterprises. $100B balance as of 2/18/09

11/25/2008

500

Mortage Market support

Fed Reserve

The Fed has purchased mortgage debt from government sponsored enterprises.

11/25/2008

200

Term Asset Backed Loan Facility (TALF)

Fed, Treasury, FDIC

To spur more consumer lending, the Fed announces plans to buy up to $200B in securities backed by car loans, credit cards, and student loans. $200B balance as of 3/09

1/16/2009

0 - 118

Bank of America

Fed, Treasury, FDIC

Like Citigroup, Bank of America is protected against losses on $118B of troubled assets.

2/10/2009

800

TALF expansion

Fed

The Fed announced it was ready to expand its facility for consumer-oriented loans (TALF) to $1T from $200B. It could also broaden to include other types of assets.

2/17/2009

787

Economic stimulus

Congress

President Obama signs massive program of tax cuts and fresh spending spanning 10 years.

2/18/2009

275

Foreclosure relief

Treasury

Up to $75B will be spent on a program to provide financial incentives to lenders who cut mortgage payments for struggling families. The plan also includes $200B to buy more stock in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

3/2/2009

30

Support for AIG

Treasury

The Treasury announced a special $30B credit line for AIG in exchange for preferred shares. This is in addition to TARP funds and Fed loans previously extended to AIG.

3/16/2009

15

Small business support

Treasury

Treasury announed its plans to buy up to $15B in securities backed by Small Business Administration loans.

3/18/2009

1150

Purchase of Treasuries and other securities

Fed

The Fed announced plans to buy $300B in longer-term Treasury securities plus an additional $750B in mortgage-backed securities and $100B in agency debt to bolster the mortgage lending and housing markets.

3/23/2009

720

Toxic-asset plan

FDIC

Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner announced a plan to help banks get so called toxic-assets off their books. The plan uses TARP funds and private investments plus FDIC guarantees to generate up to $1T in "buying power."

I saved this data from on online report I think I saw at either FoxNews or MSNBC earlier this year.

Palco...

You think the "Cash for Clunkers" was a great idea ???

Aren't reports now coming forward stating that the actual cost born by federal taxpayers for each $3500 to $4500 "clunker" is actually in the range of $20,000 per deal ??? If this is true and it looks like it may well be...you approve of this ???

The nation's taxpayers may have gotten off a bit cheaper if we had simply purchased the new cars and gave them to buyers for free.

Is anyone else here seeing reports concerning the true cost of the "clunker" deals ???

tony-268769

Well explain it to me, a $3500-$4500 refund to purchase turns into a $20,000 cost of purchase ? I'm sure the spin is interesting. I look at it this way...a $4 billion dollar stimulus turns into a approximately $11.8 billion injection into the economy, I have to do the math again but assume that each person spent $20,000 to $25,000 less the refund times 756,000 units, I'd say the effect intended was reasonably successful, at least Ford seemed to profit along with others, I believe Toyota and Honda sold mostly cars made here in the US, although I stand to be corrected.

Yes and it's a lie. Sale doubled for to month from annualized rate of about 3.5 m car sold to 7 m pickup sale were better than car. Cash for clunker sold about 1 million car and pickups the real reason ford is ok is f150. The wall street Journal has a graft of annualized monthly sale of cars and pickups. The reason ford is ok is it a car company. Gm got to be a fiance company, a mortgage predator and much much more. Ford size is related to the auto industry, gm was a monster that should have be split up like the telephone company.

The labor cost of a F150 assemblyis $900 the medical cost is $4000. It not the unions that the problem. The best labor job in this town is $14 and it's union. Not a great union and has no power what so ever, if you don't speak Spanish do not apply. Because union are dead unless the evolve. Bankruptcy kills them. The other union business went bankrupt not because of high labor cost but because it was a 13 Billion dollar business bought by a pizza topping company with a net worth of less than $500 million. Remember junk bonds. The problem is declining wage everywhere. The other big problem is people working under the table. Cash and no withholding.

I do not think anything can be called successful if it is true that it cost federal taxpayers over $20,000 to fund each "clunker" rebate of $3500 to $4500 for those who did buy a new car and traded in their junk boxes. If that $20,000+ per car figure is correct, the only people who benefitted were the car manufacturers and the actual buyers who traded their junkers in. Taxpayers who do not work in the auto industry and did not trade a junker towards the purchase of a new car took it (again ) on the chin...on more accurately...in the wallet.

Palco... I'd Bet you will be happy when we all are under socialism, it’s coming just keep a open mind and pay close attention in what Obama’s saying and doing you will see it too.

rdollie have obama buy you a better computer, or give you lessons in posting !!!!!!!!

Palco - you are so wrong. It was the Gramm Leach Bliley Act and it passed with a majority of both parties. The democrats made sure that the CRA (community reinvetment act) was incorporated into it and then it passed with just about every democrat voting for it. You should study your history before making false statements.

So now do we vilify Ford like the Insurance Co's and "Big Oil"? Afterall, $1B is an awful big profit made on the backs of the Middle Class. Lower their profits and cars would be cheaper!!

OMG shoot me I sound like The Messiah and His followers!!

For all you libs who actually believe that line of garbage I was just kidding......GO FORD squash GM and Chrysler!!

Allen-1264017, if you have instructions on how to get a table to post properly here let me know. I tried pasting as HTML, RTF, etc. and none of them worked properly. Best I could do was HTML and manually fix carriage returns before my 5 minute edit window closed...

I hate to burst everyone's "balloon" re: Ford Auto Makers.

There may have been some behind the scenes negotiations or "deals" with Obama. Who knows? Politics.

Obama taking over GM and Chrysler, leaving Ford to be the only Auto Maker that is independent of the Government?

"All that looks good, may not be good". I dont' trust this Administration at all. They have their sticky fingers into everything re: business.

Does Obama have friends in high places at Ford? Paybacks?

They sold a million car and pickup cost 4000 per car. Stop lying. True some people would have bought cars any way. I you extend down curve maybe 300000 units. Sure some were next month buyers but trend line is now up. Ford is only company with upward market share trend line. None of my four ford are clunker. All get good mileage. People get benefit of increased gas mileage and oil import will be less. This was a great win win win. I have f150, torus, focus and mustang. 19 ,24, 33 and 24.

They need to get rid of the UAW. The UAW isn't out to look for the best intentions of the automotive employees, its out to make money for the UAW management.

If the Ford UAW members don't want to work for $30-40 hr with an amazing retirement and health plan, I'm sure there are lots of GM and Chrysler workers that would take there jobs in a heart beat.

Why do you hate middle class Americans making a living wage? Do you complain when CEO's make mega millions?

Actually, I do lib. Especially when they are receiving TARP funds.

The thing is, with unemployment where its at right now, there are 100's of others that would be grateful to even have a job.

Those UAW Ford workers are EMPLOYED! They should be thankful for that. They could always be unemployed.

The biggest "lemon" Ford produced was the Ford Explorer SUV.

Ford's biggest Commercial failure ever was their EDSEL car!

Check it out---Edsel was here, and then gone.

Allen-1264017

If you choose to use the socialism rhetoric then I will say to you we live under a corporate welfare system, where is the free markets ? standing on their own ? where is the supply /demand side economics ? tell me how supply can be plentiful and demand low yet prices stay high ? ....its all a manipulated system in favor of the big money movers, with the financing stake being the tax dollars, pensions, saving funds, and the profits off shored to tax havens and the losses and risk's being dumped on the tax payer, do you have any idea of how many trillions of dollars in losses have been dumped on the American government and its people since 2000 alone? at minimum 27 trillion and counting, and for what fraud, embezzlement and greed that should be classified as capitol crimes. So scream all you want about Obama, and socialism, and some manufactured conspirecy by this adminstration, the reality is the conspirecy has already happened years ago by Wall Street and Corporate American.

JH-479998

The final bill in the senate passed overwhelming I agree, both the senate and house democrats voted against the bill originally, the house finale vote was not overwhelming, It still does not change what I was saying , I stated although many paved the way to the crisis, we needed a facilitating administration to accomplish the crimes.

http://jalopnik.com/5395082/ford-posts-misleading-997-million-profit-still-down-13-billion-this-year/gallery/

Yes - America can sell the populace on media spin & a questionable accounting method...

See 2.7.

Just like that increase in the GDP, Homie. False numbers to make it look like something the government did was a good thing.

Seriously, folks, get your news from independent sources. That does not include MSNBC, Fox, ABC, CBS, or CNN.

How about the WSJ, that's where I typically check financial reports.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703932904574511112609119436.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

Murdoch owns that one, too, however some numbers you just can't fake.

Butch-614405

This adminstration didn't try to get ford to take any money, GM & Chryslers came begging to the Bush adminstration for bailouts, I do agree about Chryslers, but GM should have gotten help and been taken over until they get out of this, and the adminstration should have taken over more of the financial institution and stop the corruption of these institutions ...and they have the right to under the "Tort" laws enacted under the Regan adminstration after the S&L scandal.

SO what makes GM worthy of a bailout where Chrysler should of been left to rot?

Jeremy-960164

Gm was profitable in the foreign markets and actually were ahead of most companies on the electric hybrid batteries, Chrysler has been a disaster in waiting for years, you may be able to make a case for both either way, hopefully the marriage with Fiat will solve the problem. I think some of the decision had to do with Chrysler's financial companies, sorry at a loss of the name.

The article says cash for clunkers play a part in this success, so actually

you can't give credit for ford doing it soley on their own.

Yes I can and I do!!! Due to Ford, done it with their own money not my money!!!!!!!!!!! Why didn't GM or Chrysler post any profits because they are spending my money not there money if they show a profit they will be required to pay my money back plus the union has control of both companies do you think they care about my money. Chrysler a few weeks ago was thinking about going belly up.

Ford is ok it has a good product and has adequate capital to weather the storm. Gm was try to prevent entry into the industry with brand proliferation. Car were a small part of the pie Gmac mortgage Gmac insurance now Allied Bank. 51% owned by city group. But an extra Billion never hurts. They would not have posted a profit with out it. I Believe they cut pension benefits by half to all retired employees. Do any one know it this is correct. All private pension are now seriously underfunded as Regan allowed $400 billion to be taken out of the funds. Same pen he allowed to Steal $400 billion for saving and loan with.

atou, Ford benefited but so did GM and Chyrsler, and they're STILL not turning a profit, despite the added benefit of billions of dollars in taxpayer money.

Big picture.

Allen-1264017

Go back to school please, the union has no interest in either company, that per the UAW president himself, who even went so far as to say, if he feels the need he will call a strike. Second, the Governments own shares in the companies, when they do an IPO, then they can start to seel those shares to get back the money, in the meantime, you not buy shares in either company.

oh oh oh

GM had sold off most of GMAC long time ago, it was owned by Cerebus, the same company that owned Chrysler.

In fairness, there was really no way they could say no to C4C without cutting off their nose to spite their face and refusing to participate - while the other two and the foreign makers did. Your point is valid, though.

The biggest mistake (and there were many) with C4C was the lack of a "Buy American" clause. I'm fully aware not all American cars are made entirely in America, and that not all foreign cars are made entirely abroad. Based on the location of the parent company, I still think there should have been such a clause.

GM and Chrysler aren't expected to last another year, I don't think Ford has to cut anyone's throat. The other two have cut and are cutting their own throats well enough to do the job.

Ford didn't quantify the impact of Cash for Clunkers, which offered buyers payments to trade in their vehicles. The program helped Ford cut costly incentives and raise production. It also won buyers; the Ford Focus and Ford Escape were among the top five sellers in the program. Ford sales were up 17 percent in August thanks to the program.

so if sales were up 17 percent how can this next statement be true

Cash For Clunkers came out of our pockets. According to what is now being written, that program cost about 24,000 per car. This is because the majority of cars sold would have been anyways.

the study you site is horribly inaccurate, rfaber9

In fairness, there was really no way they could say no to C4C without cutting off their nose to spite their face and refusing to participate - while the other two and the foreign makers did. Your point is valid, though.

why would they say no to a program that increased their sales 17%

It doesn't matter where the parent company is, does it? What matters is the "Made in America" label that appears on the vehicle or other item you purchase. If you really looked, you would find that very few items you buy today, outside of food, will carry a "Made in America" or "Made in USA" label. That is especially true with clothing. Most Hondas sold in America today are made in America by Honda America and the profits stay in America. What matters is that Americans are earning wages to produce those vehicles HERE.

It matters when the parent company owes the taxpayers of this country billions upon billions of dollars.

No, nothing much is made in America, and this administration would like to keep it that way - cuz we wouldn't want to endanger a 1" minnow or cut down a tree would we.

Pay attention to these two paragraphs in the story. They are real important to the issue:

Its North American car and truck division — a key business — posted a pretax profit of $357 million, its first quarter in the black since early 2005. Ford cited higher pricing, lower material costs and increased market share for the improvement.

That "profit" is about one-third of their reported nearly $1B profit and that was for the North American division---Canada/US/Mexico. How much of that was actually here in the USA? Which other division(s) brought in the rest of the profits?

The earnings came despite an $800 million revenue drop. But Ford said it cut costs by $1 billion during the quarter.

And they still have $26.9B in debt to pay off, so how was there any profit in reality? See my other comment regarding that.

As far as C4C, we taxpayers ARE helping to bail out Ford, even though they didn't accept the original auto bailout money. Remember it IS our tax dollars (and national debt) that is covering that rebate to the buyers to "stimulate" them to buy these vehicles that helped boost the "profits." By the time we pay the interest on the money the government had to borrow for that stimulus, who knows what the C4C program is going to cost US per vehicle. It may very well be that we taxpayers just paid the price of an entire new vehicle for each of these buyers to get their rebate.

How do any of the "foreign" parent companies owe the taxpayers billions upon billions of dollars? They didn't get any handouts. It was the buyer of the vehicle that got the rebate. As the story says, Ford was able to cut a lot of their other "incentive" programs by participating in the C4C and that is what helped them cut costs.

I was going to buy a Honda but now I just might buy a Fusion.

anti-trust proponent

And they still have $26.9B in debt to pay off, so how was there any profit in reality? See my other comment regarding that.

This is simply the Profit/Loss Statement for July, August, and September (Revenue - Expense), one of the expense components would be the interest paid from the debt build-up (same as your debt from mortgage). That is why you need a second statement, the balance sheet or net worth as of September 30 - (Assets - Liabilities), the debt would show one of Liabilities. So what is Ford's net worth and other key financial ratios? (The net worth will show an increase of $1B from June 30). It is just a snap shot!

I see a lot of posts asking why they can post a profit when they are so much in debt. Tell me if I make any sense here:

Lets say, i'm 20000 in debt (car loan, credit card, whatever...) I make 5000 for my monthly salary and I spend 4500 on mortgage, bills, payments, etc.... so that leaves me with 500 bucks. (I can take the money and put it towards the debt, or put it in savings, or get something nice for the wife, kids, mistress, whatever....) Wouldn't that 500 bucks be considered profit? It doesn't matter that I still have the debt, I'm making an extra 500 bucks a month.

It would be the same for a company. If after all of their bills and expenses for the quarter (including debt payments) are paid off and they have money left over, they made a profit! So, yes they can claim a profit.

Seems to me that Ford says they made a profit, now the unions want their piece of the pie and won't agree to keeping everything status quo. (Freezing entry level pay is not a pay cut). Unions, at the turn of the century played a big role in getting workers paid fairly, decent work environments, and so on. Nowadays with all the govt mandates about work safety, minimum wages, and so on, unions are less needed and nothing more than leeches.

Last fall, all 3 companies went to congress with their hats in their hands. Congress blasted them for flying private jets and tossed them out.(remember that story?) GM and Chrysler went back with bowed heads and Ford figured out how to take care of their own problems rather than beg for money (except to ask for a line of credit that they never used). Good for Ford.

Are you awake yet? - That is about it. The your analogy also applies to Social Security not doing a COLA - (freezing SS benefits at last years fiscal level is not a cut).

Agreed. Think about it, someone says, "OK, the cost of living will go up 3% next year" so now all the workers want a raise to cover this "projected" cost of living, the cost of goods and services go up to pay for the increase in wages, and now it's a self fulfilling prophecy. Wonder what would happen is someone said "the cost of living will stay the same". (I know that'll never happen)

Since you have a stake in it you might want to GM succeed, purely from a business stand point.

palco, we'll never see a dime back from GM or Chrysler either way. The UAW and this administration will see to that.

PragmaticToAFault

Like I have said before I do not like the bailouts,in normal times you can just let the companies fail and the work force can move on, but these are extreme times and there is no place for the workforce to move on to, so what do you suggest?

I'd be curious to see if what they report is real, myself... Lately, the government seems more into 'making up' numbers so it looks as their policies might be working. Jobs saved? What a joke!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703932904574511112609119436.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

Actually a union run company. That really is what happened at GM, isn't it? How much of a share does the union now own? Talk about socialism. That is exactly what the UAW is looking for. They want to get total control of the "big three."

Also see my note above correcting your double misstatement on their debt.

No gmac became a large international bank and insurance company.

No kidding - they probably will find a way, won't they?

Don't forget the post office which hasn't shown a profit in over 200 years.

wow what a class act. could get @!$%# for name.

Well said. I live in North Carolina where factory closures have decimated the economy in some areas. I bet both North and South Carolina would love to have a factory and the jobs that come with it.

Yeah I live in Wa. and listening to Boeing workers snivel about the move is funny. "But we went in and promised not to strike anymore" Lol too little too late. Outsource work to somewhere where people want to work and dont expect the company to kiss their a$$.

Tomb, Ford posted a surprise profit in one of the two previous quarters. This current result means that two of the last three quarters have been in the black. This company is producing quality products, has cut costs and wisely sought private loans at the start of the recession. Ford was widely considered to be the worst run of the domestic manufacturers just three years ago. They brilliantly chose Alan Mullaly (Boeing) to run the company and the results have been amazing. They are well-capitalized for the long run, so Ford is not in imminent danger. This company will also do well because many people do not want to reward the bad decisions made by Chrysler and GM...

F-O-R-D- = found on road dead! No American manufactured car even deserved to be on this list. It wasn't that long ago that Ford was on the junkiest car list. GM still, as always, builds a better product than Ford. Because Ford did not accept gov't. assistance, they are now on some sort of pseudo-roll, which will diminish in time.

I was waiting to see someone post that and whammo--you didn't disappoint me. Funny thing about your opinion though--my wifes '99 mustang before we traded it in for a new car this year had 183,750 miles on it and never had engine problems-just a minor oil leak from a valve cover that could easily be fixed. My F-150 has 240,000 miles and it's never been in the shop either. No oil leaks or ticks. Just depends on how you take care of your vehicle.

FlyinV------- It's really a stretch to say that an F-150 with 240,000 miles on it has NEVER been in the shop. Maybe because you made your own repairs in your driveway/garage? However, your last sentence is correct. With proper maintenance and decent driving habits, most any brand of car will provide good service for years.

...and I've had multiple GM cars go 200K++ without engine/driveline repairs. Maintenance folks is the key, and not driving it like you stole it.

Every Pontiac that my dad owned was in the junkyard a few months after the 3-year warranty. Only one ever made it to 70,000 miles, most made it to about 50,000 miles before falling apart.

His Ford Ranger, on the other hand, lasted 13 years and 250,000 miles with just a heater core and a water pump being replaced.

TedC.

Like my father before me, I always bought GM products. I didn't know what pieces of crap they were until I bought a Nissan. Not one of these vehicles, Buick LeSabre, Chevey Astrovan, Saturn Sedan, Pontiac Grand Am have ever made it past 125,000 miles without serious work.

I recently gave the 1986 Nissan Maxima to my niece. It has had two starters and two distributers replaced along with scheduled maintenance. Its at 265+

LOL.

The Obama fans, bashing the success of a company that isn't completely under the thumb of the administration.

How not surprising.

ted c,

For your info FORD stands for First On Race Day.

Kinda like yesterday at Talladega.

Get it, got it, good!!!

My '91 Ranger logged 500 miles over the weekend. It stands at 187,000 with the clutch being the only close to major item replaced. I guess it going at 175,000 miles means I should have bought a Toyota!!!

My F 150 is 13 year old and still to valuable to be a clunker. I been asking the dealer for an e85 f 150 for 10 years. Not seen one yet.

I must admit I wish they didn't nix Pontiac.....I miss my Trans-Am, even though I'm a Ford guy.

I wish we could get rid of the bailout-banks too. Blech. I'm glad that Ford can swim without a life preserver.

FlyinV

What Trans-Am? They haven't made them since 2002.

I don't miss the leaking T-Tops or turn signal "smart stalk" that came off in my hands (about my T/A) but I'm still pissed that Government Motors killed Pontiac. The G8 was the best American sedan ever and they killed it after 2 years. Since Uncle Cram is running the show there will be no Chevy version for law enforcement sales.

that's the "WAY", forgot a word.

Thank you for reducing over half the country into an extreme cultural stereotype. Saves you having to use any real facts to engage in actual discussion.

20% Clotho, not half.

Clotho,

I'll engage.

I employ 300 people, people who work for a paycheck.People that own houses and appreciate what they have worked for

tell me how many welfare recipients are out cleaning up the garbage on their streets, in appreciation for the money they are receiving. tell me how many food stamp recipients are out there keeping their neighborhoods clean in appreciation for the assistance they are receiving.

when you are trained that receiving a handout is right, you are creating a society of unappreciable people.

looks like Clotho pulled a typical democratic "drive-by". I'm accused of not engaging and when I respond and ready to do battle, poof, he's gone.

Started buying fords with my 2004 F150(didnt like the look of the chevy trucks, and like the way the F150 was re-designed). Traded in my wife's Camry for a Freestyle in 2005. The camry was a great car, but the Freestyle was a lot more fun to drive (and it was a 7 seater). I was planning on sticking with Fords anyway, but the fact they didnt have to take any money (yet?) is just the icing on the cake.(actually I have 3 fords now, with the purchase of a 66 mustang convertible that I'm restoring)

Actually, it's reverse socialism: the government steals from the working class so that it can hand briefcases full of cash to rich executives.

Actually, it is good ol' Capitalism. I was talking about Ford, not the others.

Yes - Ford made a 'Hail Mary' call on lining up financing before the crash - they were lucky. And they ditched some of their other brands, which freed-up capital.

Now - if they can get past the spontaneously combusting ignition switches, there might be a future for them. As for Ford products, they still don't give me any reason to buy one...

So in other words, they ran the company in a sensible forward looking fashion and it paid off for them. Certainly they have a ways to go, but they're not on the government teat, and somehow you have a problem with that?

Amazing.

When (if) GM & Chrysler haven't and won't pay US the taxpayer back even one red cent.

Coudyone,

You know what they say, "I'd rather be lucky than good somedays"

In fords case, they are both lucky and good.

It's called strategy. Ford's CEO saw this all coming, and prepared for the storm.

Cloudy, you are correct except the total was close to 30 billion dollars. They mortgaged every asset the company has including the Ford name and logo. The banks and bondholders own everything. They were "lucky" due to the fact that because they were in the most trouble first they were able to borrow the money from the private sector before the credit markets locked up which is the reason the other automakers had to resort to government loans later. I congratulate Ford on a profitable quarter but they still aren't projected to make a full year profit for two more years. They also have almost $30B in debt to service and now with the UAW rejecting even minimal contract concessions they now have the highest labor costs in the industry. Finally, most of their products are just face lifted versions of some pretty old vehicle platforms which has led to improved quality numbers but they'll need to spend lots of money to update those vehicle platforms and powertrains eventually. I wish them luck.

True, Ford has a long way to go. But the journey of a thousand miles begins with a footstep.

So Ford borrows the money from the banks and therefore does NOT need a bailout because of that. But now the banks that lent to Ford need or will need a bailout? Unless Ford used that 1 Billion dollars in profit to pay off 'part' of their MASSIVE loan principle? But if they did that, they could not claim a One Billion dollar 'profit,' could they now?

Man those were some ugly a$$ cars, what were they thinking?

Just kidding,.... but i could see the scenario. Seems like a whole lot of wrong decisions ( let me re-phrase that,decisions different than what I would do) are being made these days by our politically appointed experts.

I can't see the Pinto making a comeback. But I can easily see the Obama administration trying to cram the Volt down everyone's throats. Egads. What a money pit -- a $40,000 car that gets 30 MPG after the battery pack is exhausted.

I used to have a '73 pinto wagon. would love to have one again.

Not to worry HDMC, the unions will seal their own fate. Ford is now building their third manufacturing facility in China. I'm sure the union whiners will complain about jobs moving overseas. Maybe they should consider working with Ford instead of against them.

I just wonder what Edmonds angle is? The true cost is the total amount of rebates divided by the number of cars sold. Trying to spin it for some purpose or another doesn't change that fact.

They sold a million car at 4000 per car that 4,000,000,000. Look at the wall street journal monthly car sale graft. This is just a lie. It was a way of improving fleet gas mileage and will pay back with less imported oil and lower gas prices. Win win win The should extend forever if you will buy and drive a focus. The should just make it a tax credit. Two pickup back I expensesed 15k on my light truck. They gave me $7500 to buy a pickup. I believe it up to 125k now i can expense.

Well. Our Govenrment does have its hands out of Chrysler. It now belongs to Italy.

Thanks to Obammy

It's unlikely that I would ever buy a GM. But if they did, I'd have to get $2,400 in cash right off the top -- that being each citizen's share of the GM bailout.

You lost a zero, Indigo. They'd actually have to pay you to take the car, in the case of some models, since the number is actually $24,000.

Sounds about right, hmm?

That $24,000 is Edmonds.com's bogus figure. I don't know what their angle is but it doesn't change the true number which is the total # of rebates paid minus the amount of eligible cars sold.

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS216965Oct-2009+BW20091028

Edmunds' analysis factors out non-incremental sales. If people would have bought cars in August anyway, without a government giveway, and only about 1/5 of the sales was incremental, I think it's a pretty valid analysis.

It's also consistent with September sales, which were down over 40% for both GM and Chrysler. Ford's Sept. sales only decreased by 5%. Meaning, generally, that people just bought earlier to get money for nothing, and then conintued to reward Ford.

Thank to Bush.

It's not valid at all because the program was designed to stimulate sales which was exactly what it did. While I didn't like the way the program was implemented (destroying engines and what not) the fact is it targeted a specific area and had an immediate positive impact. If the other $780-something billion of the "Stimula$$" had been subject to the same guidelines (or not spent at all) we might getting somewhere on our recovery.

Yes, Fred, it did stimulate sales. But read the analysis.

Edmunds projected what August car sales probably would have been WITHOUT C4C, based on past months, year to year analysis, YTD sales patterns, etc. Based on their projections, and remember, this is their business - this is what they do - only 125,000 units were incremental.

Meaning without a government giveaway, of the 690,000 cars that sold through C4C, 565,000 would have sold ANYWAY. And, since September sales were down +40% for both GM and Chrysler, down in the 10% range or higher for the foreign makers, and down 5% for Ford, those incremental sales were just pulled forward into August - they weren't truly incremental.

Meaning not many people ran out and bought a car that weren't already planning on doing so.

Edmunds wasn't doing this analysis to debunk C4C. They were doing it to try to project car sales OVERALL, while accounting for C4C's effects.

Now Ford, Get those hybrids out and compete with quality and price. Stopped by dealer to buy a Fusion last week and saleman didn't know squat about how it worked and the only color available on only one car coming in three weeks was black (in Atlanta area)???? Good ole Henry Ford days I think. Had GM Caddy Deville, and transmission went out again. 50K mi is about best the transmissions seem to do. Visited Buick dealer and that GM transmission haunted me. Resale of GM Caddy was nuttin. So after disappointment with GM and Ford and thinking how unions were messing them up, causing higher prices, went and got a Toyota Prius with 100K Mi warranty on hybrid parts and 60K mi on power train. First foreign car I bought new. Wonderful to see 50MPG and a zippy car! Come on Ford, get going!

The Fusion is an excellent car, and will be the next one we buy.

Check it out.