BULL Hockey !!!!!!!

Demand Term Limits on Congress Now!!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! God. I needed a good laugh this morning.

This is priceless. "Created OR saved." LOL!

Only in ObamaLand.

This Administration has lost all credibility, and most of the press too.

Total BS from BO is it any wonder consumer confidence is falling? The Lie is in the wording saved or created. He printed money gas is going back up and we are in deep trouble.

650K.... hahahaha, aaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaha!

And just yesterday it was reported that they couldn't even count to 30k...... hahahahahaha!!

Must be all those "turbo tax" people doing the counting...... hahahahahahahahaha!!!!

We have never used the "saved" jobs description in the past so why is the media just accepting this as if it's a legitimate statistic? If they must report "created or saved" jobs, why not report them separately? Let's see how many were created and then how many were supposedly saved.....somehow I think all of those jobs will be in the imaginary "saved" category.

Barry pharts rainbows & butterflies . . .

Which is it, created or saved.? By the way, how many of these mysterious jobs were government jobs or quasi-government jobs? Lets wait to get the real numbers.

More lies and propaganda. 'Saved jobs' is a totally unmeasureable metric. This claim is totally made up and devoid of any factual data. I would love to know which Joseph Geobbels student came up with this bull@!$%#. Hell, I saved 10 million jobs myself just this morning. I should get a Nobel Prize!!

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

This is the biggest lie yet! The contractors had other jobs they put by the side to collect their share of the stimulus money. The only jobs created were government jobs which we will be paying the cost of for many years to come in their health, retirement, and salaries.

Do these reports major in Lying at College? Got to wonder how much these media groups are being paid by the Democratic Committee to keep them in business. They were going bankrupt and now they are financially solvent but still not sell newspapers!

They just had a report on here that said the jobs that were created or saved were fake, due to double and triple counts of the same jobs. Also the report said that some Company's that got some of our tax money said they created jobs, but were lying, and just gave raises to their existing employee's... Now the White House comes up with more lies and BS ??????

The only thing that went up was the Taxes to pay for the Local and Federal Government workers, teachers and Politicians Health coverage. And they allowed the Utility Companies to raise their rates... Causing yet more strain on the people, and any money people may have had to put into the Economy had to go toward the higher taxes and Bills......

The Government is nothing but a Legalized Mafia......

650k? Created or saved? My state of Ohio has lost 600k already! This entire statement is a steamy pile of dog @!$%#.

RON PAUL 2012!!

Title should read 650,000 created or saved 2,000,000 lost! This is the most dazzling display of BS slinging I've ever seen. They really must think the people are idiots to believe their BS.

MSNBC ran a article yesterday stating that the numbers reported were off by factors of ten and many numbers were complete fabrications. see msnbc.com/business, '30,000 stimulus jobs figure is way off the mark'.

The next article later that morning was reporting the White House attacking the MSNBC/AP report..............

Who do you believe?????? Ha! Ha!

Sorry, not buying it.

As a business owner, we have had to lay off 10 people since June. None have been able to find work as of yet.

Rational thinking would suggest that if it has created or "saved" 650,000 jobs, the unemployment figures would not still be going up?

Do these people get drug tested?, these people think we are all stupid, every single day businesses close and people lose their jobs so how can they tell us these lies, the only jobs I see that are being saved is theirs, because it sure ain't no one Else's, these people are like a cancer eating away at us the people, over paid and over compensated is what they are, when an employee does not perform they are fired and I think these people, all of them should be fired for lack of performance like a regular worker it's time they are held accountable, we need to say no more free ride and kick them all out they are nothing special and should be treated as such, their like a bunch of criminals in suits ....

We created 30,000 jobs, no, no it was 100,000 jobs, wait, no it was 250,000 jobs, no, actually it was 650,00 jobs, yea that's it 650,000 jobs. I can picture John Levitt (sp?) in a Saturday Night Live skit doing this press conference ratcheting up the number as far as he can.

Now even if they did create that many jobs, how many are are actual full time, permanent non-government jobs? Almost none would be the answer.

probably ACORN jobs...

I'll tell you one things for sure, you baffoons in DC aren't going to save YOUR jobs, the lot of you are fired come next elections. You think you saw record voter turn out when this jacka$$ was elected? You just wait

Yeah right look around folks, obviously they are taking really good medication (or LSD) for the trip they are on. I read that 850 with Electrolux were going south. Realize that is very small amount but how many others have gone un-noticed. Just another lie in a long list of lies. People voted for Change and the change I am seeing is leaving my pockets and there was not much to begin with, as I have said President Obama has never been for the middle Class and when you run around with the likes of Bill Ayers and George Soros you have their vision and that is to destroy the U. S. This country is the only one in the world that had a true middle but over the last 40 years it has become smaller and smaller as our Jobs have gone over seas or south of the border

I am glad to see opposition to this silly bait and switch article. Blogging our disgust helps get the word out, but I would challenge every one of you who opposes this kind of glad handing to have meaningful, not angry, conversations with your group of acquaintances. Word of mouth is a powerful tool, perhaps powerful enough to stop the populace from, for the most part, taking the media without being sceptical.

A freethinking, fact checking population of liberty loving Americans. There is no brighter future I can think of.

The Liar In Chief and his crooks stupidity is beyond imagination.

This is a joke. There is no way to measure "saved jobs", so this will be about as believable as unemployment staying below 8% as a result of the "stimulus" package.

So, 15% of the spendulous bill has been spent to date. That would mean Obama spent an average of $181,615 per job created or saved to date. Sounds like a bargain. I would like to be paid that to save my job.

The Obama Administration must live on, OR frequently visit 'Fantasy Island'...

AP IMPACT: Stimulus jobs overstated by thousands

By BRETT J. BLACKLEDGE and MATT APUZZO – 14 hours ago

WASHINGTON — A Colorado company said it created 4,231 jobs with the help of President Barack Obama's economic recovery plan. The real number: fewer than 1,000.

A child care center in Florida said it saved 129 jobs with the help of stimulus money. Instead, it gave pay raises to its existing employees.

Elsewhere in the U.S., some jobs credited to the stimulus program were counted two, three, four or even more times.

The government has overstated by thousands the number of jobs it has created or saved with federal contracts under the president's $787 billion recovery program, according to an Associated Press review of data released in the program's first progress report.

The discrepancy raises questions about the reliability of a key benchmark the administration uses to gauge the success of the stimulus. The errors could be magnified Friday when a much larger round of reports is released. It is expected to show hundreds of thousands of jobs repairing public housing, building schools, repaving highways and keeping teachers on local payrolls.

The White House seized on an initial report from a government oversight board weeks ago that claimed federal contracts awarded to businesses under the recovery plan already had helped pay for more than 30,000 jobs. The administration said the number was evidence that the stimulus program had exceeded early expectations toward reaching the president's promise of creating or saving 3.5 million jobs by the end of next year.

But the 30,000 figure is overstated by thousands — at the very least by nearly 5,000, or one in six, based on AP's limited review of some of the contracts — because some federal agencies and recipients of the money provided incorrect job counts. The review found some counts were more than 10 times as high as the actual number of jobs; some jobs were credited to stimulus spending when, in fact, none were produced.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jMNoef6xDenBbHWO0Im6rIjDmAgAD9BKIN400

I feel like I'm living the book 1984. We know from labor statistics that we're losing over 500,000 jobs a month since last fall, and then you read crap like this from the White House and the press reports it as fact. I don't blame the White House, these are Chicago crooks who will do and say anything to accomplish there goal, but what has happened to our press?

I heard this morning that a child care facility in Florida claimed that the had 129 jobs created. After investigation, it was shown that the stimulus money did not create any jobs just gave everyone a hefty pay raise on the tax payers dollars.

Is anyone surprised by yet another complete fabrication by the Obama administration?

Nice try Barry, but no one believes you.

What's the next big BS story "GM buys Toyota"?

So many lies from Obama.

NObama in 2012! CHANGE we must have.

Begin again in 2010!

So Tom, do you believe the White House figures???

Tony Fratto from CNBC says the numbers don't really mean anything since can't be verified, and more jobs being lost than "created or saved". Besides, if jobs are "created or saved" as a result of the stimulus, the jobs can't be maintained because the spending can't be maintained.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/33549365

BULL CRAP!!!

Fact checkers I await your conclusion not the propaganda from the Whitehouse.

Couldn't he have said he's saved 100 million jobs seeing as there are people still working? What kind of crap is this? As another poster put it we've never used "saved" jobs as any type of economic indicator. You can't. It's not measurable. That would be like a company saying in their quarterly or annual report that they didn't lose this amount of money.

Why is the media buying this crap? Aren't they supposed to be on our side? Are they not the 4th estate? I think what we're seeing now from the White House attack on Fox News is the other "news" organizations are being careful not to anger them. What they should be doing it acting like a branch of the government as part of the checks and balances. Call these MFs on their BS and lies. Not acting like the unpopular kid in school who is always trying to get invited to the parties and be inlcuded in the group.

I want a list, seriously, of ALL the jobs types that were created and saved. Wouldn't that be helpful in understanding or even believing for once that figure?? Someone?? Anyone??

I'm so releived!

Think about it folks, if you still have your job, YOUR JOB WAS "SAVED"!

I guess every month I continue to be employed, I get included in the "saved" jobs category!

According to that logic, the number should be much much higher.

And it only cost $900 billion to do that!

These guys are miracle workers!

Many have already pointed this out, and yes.. some blame to the media as well for not counter-printing (or posting) an article that challenges the facts...

especially since less than a week ago the lovely "numbers" from the 30k created were exposed as fraudulent, per article :bushisthepast: was good enough to re-post.

I thought that this had been PART of the news; for agencies to look in to discrepancies, to search for facts, and to expose lies for what they were.... not pandering to some or simply repeating what comes across their desk (or their computers... laziness?).

But true, as many have already said... ambiguity in "jobs saved" is invented and not tangible. In the end, it will be tough if not impossible to dispute any related number because this will land squarely into the lap of "theories" and "suppose if"...no way to prove wrong. 90% may disagree, but 10% will claim "you don't understand" or "looking at it from THIS perspective...".

But facts are facts. I'm more thinking about the "why"... this is obviously beyond overstated, and even those putting themselves out there saying this know that it's blatant lying. So, the question of why? An artificial 4 hr. boost for the stock market? Something else to take away heat from some other issue, just creative divisiveness to take time and an outlet for arguements?

For me, the "why" is much more intriquing than the veracity of any fact in the statement... we ALL know that's it's complete bull.

I am a little confused. The article states that hundreds of thousands of teachers jobs were saved. So , correct me if I am wrong but how does that help the economy? Are these jobs self-sustaining jobs? Do they add immediate value to the economy in terms of other jobs? Will they help the economy to grow so we will not have to do another stimulus plan when the money given to the states runs out and they need bailouts again?

And yes , I understand that by them having jobs , they spend money which saves other jobs etc etc but wouldn't creating jobs in new technologies, new industries bring a greater benefit to correcting the economy? I really thought that the idea behind the stimulus was to create new jobs to replace ones lost. Just saving jobs makes this more of a huge unemployment fund which is unsustainable over the long run because without real growth in the economy, there will be no money of value to pay for it.

I "saved" not gaining 40 pounds this year!! 

What a bunch of rubbish.  Yeah, the demo-victim-crats really think we are this STUPID to believe this garbage.

All while they claim the gdp "grew", haha.  Yeah, I maxed my credit card by $10,000. this year and called it a "raise"!

When you leftists in govt. put me and my family in debt by 12 trillion dollars, you can go straight to bleep!!

Printing 1 trillion dollars is where the gdp "growth" came from.

Do any of you govt worshipers know what you are doing?  Obama has put us into debt THIS YEAR ALONE *more* than Reagan did in 8 entire years.

Any of you victims on the left googled what the dollar is doing against EVERY currency on earth, since he started printing dollars just like toilet paper?

Oh, the titanic starts sinking and all the bleeding hearts believe EVERYONE has to be stuffed into the lifeboats.  But the left does not care, they have their politically correct president - nothing but a far left neo-marxist, surrounded by EXACTLY THE SAME.

The CBO has stated that the stimulus has created on 30,000 jobs. That is $71,000 spent per job. Christina Romer stated in front of congress that we have seen the extent of the stimulus in the job market already and would not see much more. You stinking idiots that voted for obama ought to be ashamed. 11 months in office and he has done nothing but put our country into more debt that our grandchildren will have to pay the piper for. What a pathetic excuse for a President and congress. The press hammered Bush for playing golf and obama has done this 24 times, more than Bush in his entire Presidency. obama has flown all over the world and now is whining about not having family time when him and michelle go out. Has it actually sunk in that he is President? Pretty much when you are a celebrity or person of stature like him, you have no private life. The press has said that this is the worst crybabies they have ever seen. Remember, obama and his liberal buddies stated that if the stimulus passed, we would not go over 8 percent unemployment. Well, we are at about 10 percent. obama, pelosi, and reid have done nothing but bankrupt our country and lied continually to us. And you want the same people to run our healtcare? Wake up.

I "saved" not gaining 40 pounds this year!! 

What a bunch of rubbish.  Yeah, the demo-victim-crats really think we are this STUPID to believe this garbage.

All while they claim the gdp "grew", haha.  Yeah, I maxed my credit card by $10,000. this year and called it a "raise"!

When you leftists in govt. put me and my family in debt by 12 trillion dollars, you can go straight to bleep!!

Printing 1 trillion dollars is where the gdp "growth" came from.

Do any of you govt worshipers know what you are doing?  Obama has put us into debt THIS YEAR ALONE *more* than Reagan did in 8 entire years.

Any of you victims on the left googled what the dollar is doing against EVERY currency on earth, since he started printing dollars just like toilet paper?

Oh, the titanic starts sinking and all the bleeding hearts believe EVERYONE has to be stuffed into the lifeboats.  But the left does not care, they have their politically correct president - nothing but a far left neo-marxist, surrounded by EXACTLY THE SAME.

ok, I know the media is basically the pr dept for the white house, but they hold up this "new data" like it came from a credible source. oy...

But the job market has yet to show signs of recovery, putting pressure on the White House to show that the stimulus was worth its hefty price tag.

I don't consider it a recovery until there are MORE jobs created than jobs LOST. Where do there idiots get their figures? Saved or created...I think they really mean saved. And how do you determine "saved"? Hummm, maybe it's the line on the form you have to fill out in order to try and receive stimulus funds that reads "How many jobs has this money saved or lost?" ...no seriously, my company received a small job that was funded by stimulus dollars and we had to estimate how many jobs it may have saved...these people are CRIMINALS and are stealing our country!

Assuming that the numbers are correct that is $1.2 million per job. Many jobs were only a few days and are they including jobs created in China? This is an example of Government out of control. The tax payers were screwed with the stimulus plan and now they are trying to justify it using very creative math. If they voted for the stimulus plan then vote them out.

The Administration has waved it's magic wan and the "650,000 jobs saved or started" numbers suddenly appeared through the smoke and mirrors. Sounds like a story from The Land of Oz.

It was this number yesterday, it will be this number today, and tomorrow we have to think about the numbers again after we take credit for the economy upbeat. What a lame excuse for the President's economic advisors.

It is time the Administration provide CORRECT INFORMATION to the taxpayers/public. When was the last time that happened?

I didn't realize there where 650 million new czars!!!!!!

Created or Saved? Imagine that! Oboma is unable to do both at the same time! And they said he is the right man for this job to bring "Ching, Ching".

I heard the big-eared bandit speaking yesterday...imagine that! Anyway, he was trying to push the healthcare cap and trade when he made a statement like...since the summer of 2007 and the fall of 2008, 2 million jobs were lost....

This guy refuses to put any of this on his watch. Everything is Bushes fault whether he comes right out and states it or uses dates to try and push the blame. Hey prez...we're losing 1/2 million per month! Do the frikkin' math, genious!

That's what happens when you elect a President that promises everyone everything. He lies and so does his numbers. The stimulus money may have saved a few government jobs, but where are the created jobs? Not in manufacturing!

Numbers are totally inflated, there is no way of knowing how many jobs have been created. The white house just throws out what ever they deem positive and the libs eat it up" See we were right" way to legitimize your arugements with facts! A lot of stimulus money was used to give regular employees raises didn't hire one new person. Part time work was counted to.

funny, not many libs on here defending this pile of lying doodoo straight from the WH. I'd like to have some of whatever they're smoking --no, then again, I don't want to be delusional!!

Come on. libbies, defend this lying piece of crapola statement!

There will never be Term Lmits.. But there is in rality already TERM LIMITS.. We the voters can choose not to re elect the people in Washington.. But WE THE VOTER DO NOT.. We THE VOTE KEEP putting the same criminals back in power.. as for this job report.. I call this ALL BS .. There were no jobs created.. Maybe jobs saved but no new jobs created.. More companies will be firing employees if the BOTOX QUEEN gets her GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTHCARE through.. America we have screwed ourselves and it is coming home to roost..

OK, let's get serious here. We need to have another Cash for Clunkers right away to keep this momentum going........right?

The seriousness of this situation that we are faced with is incredible! To say maybe one million and then settle out at 650,000 is like playing a game with our lives. To say transparency when the facts point to something else is an out and out lie.

I have come to believe that they do not have the best interest of the U.S. at heart... purposefully. We have voted into office some mixture of European, African, and Russian form of government. Ad in a little Chicago and you have an interesting pizza.

Two words..."YOU LIE!"

About 650,000 jobs have been saved or created under President Barack Obama's economic stimulus plan

Would those be jobs at ACORN?

Lets see 545000 new unemployment filers last week.. Are the are counting Teachers jobs saved? I don't recall any Federal funds paying teachers.. They also must be counting the MEN AND WOMEN who ENLIST and RE ENLIST in the Armed Forces.. Again more BS from this administration.

After reading the article yesterday about the England truck maker getting work from the stimulus $$, I have to wonder if over seas saved jobs are included in this report. I also have to wonder if any of the saved jobs are filled by illegal immigrants.

Tom, I think you soiled your union suit - your post has a bad smell to it

SJC-1437429

"Check out the facts all you want. At least this is out in the open, not kept secret like Bush and Cheney because the "enemy might find out" when the "enemy" is the American people."

This has to be a record, that it took to comment 1.34 to find someone so a$$nine stupid as to believe these facts. Thus is the plight of the Liberals, and their Cult. I can't call them a party, because they never seem to have very much fun.

Many have commented that the figures presented are "Male-Bovine-Fecal-Matter", and they are correct. The commenters who believe the figures presented or find a way to blame this on Bush are full of the "Male-Bovine-Fecal-Matter".

Tom - it's not funny - these guys have burned through trillions and paid off their rich wall st and banker buddies, and your laughing? And now they are taking aim at destroying the economy with their "health care" lie and cap & trade?

Read what international journalists are writing about us - this isn't just "right-wingers" upset, this is a fundamental shift away from our way of life, and one that if they are successful, will damage our country for years, maybe decades.

That this guy and his imbeciles in Congress think they can lie without consequences is shameful, that any of them will have a job when elections roll around is highly doubtful, as the shift away from these loon's is already showing up in most polls.

SJC - all out in the open? Are you serious? This is the most corrupt back-room crowd to ever inhabit the White House.

They want to snuff an entire news organization just because they don't agree with them! At least Bush was man enough to face CNN, MSNBC and virtually every LIBERAL news organization.

Obama is clearly not a leader, and is a wimp - he'll talk to Pravda and not Fox - wimpy at it's very BEST!

Obama didn't save my job. I'm still looking, almost nothing full time in my field and am trying to get part time jobs related to my field of study.

Created or Saved jobs....that's a very speculative number and let me show you why based on personal experience as a locally elected official for some 8 years. In Michigan local governments can grant 50% tax breaks for company investments in their community for equipment building expansions etc, the premise being, in part, that the investment must create or save a certain amount of jobs. I cannot tell you how many times I voted NO on these because time and time again these companies would claim their investment would save jobs (not create) only to find out 6 months after they get the tax break that they actually laid folks off...so on paper jobs saved, in reality net jobs were lost. They'd come back a few years later when there was a new crop of elected officials that cycled out every couple of years or those incumbents that didn't care or didn't check. Its sickening when you understand how the math can be generated for jobs retained. And as far as jobs created...not like that the quality of jobs regained vs those lost are in line, and a contract or temp job counts in the mix same as permanent. Nice try in the jobs created claim...I know better

toxic,

those would indeed be jobs at acorn - immigration law attorneys, tax preparation, mortgage documentation specialists, underage sex trafficking counselors, etc.

Today America saved 100 million cats, by not running them over.

All this is a bunch of BS. If a lot of jobs created then why is the unemployment number still high? More jobs are cutting back or leaving the country. The stimulus package is a crock and so is the cash for clunkers. Why can't our corrupted government just tell the truth instead of all these lies and cover ups. Our elected officials think we the people are so "STUPID". More and more I am starting to really hate this government of ours for their corruption,lies,wasteful spending,high deficit,& their dishonor. Apparently our own government doesn't care about how all this garbage is effecting this country. WHERE'S THE LIFE VEST PEOPLE? WE ARE SINKING FAST TO THE BOTTOM OF THE OCEAN.!!!!!!!

Even the health care bill is flawless, this bill that they are trying pass will increase the premiums that we already have and raise taxes to the consumer according to the committee. That means the consumer will pay dearly for this. More lies by Obama and his corrupted friends. People want this health care reform well you will all pay a higher price for it and every consumer in this country. There is no way around it.

Tom...

It's great to look on the bright side of things. But you must be running past all the indicators that show that this thing is not really turning around! And you must somehow ignore the reports that come out and then turn around and contradict themselves.

Do you truly believe that things are on the upswing? 650,000 arbitrary jobs secured... yet 500,000 plus lost almost every month! If you're going to rejoice for those who are part of the 650,000... how much more should you mourn for the millions? If you rejoice at the $500.00 you brought in this week... should you be concerned at the $1500.00 you needed to sustain?

We haven't seen the effects of stimulus money where I live. But the symptoms of the losses are apparent everywhere.

Not one American should be happy with the results so far... And the head CEO is where the buck stops.

Yeah, if you believe this come see me about buying a bridge I have for sale,,,,,,,

demitrix - They'll start calling conservatives cat killers if you provide them with those statistics. After all, if they have saved all those cats - then how many did Bush kill????????

$700-billion stimulus plan... 650,000 jobs "saved" or "created"... so you're telling me that the gov't spent over $1-million dollars on every job "saved" or "created"... why didn't you just hand the people $1-million each? It seems like that would have been more efficient, and it would have made those people happier than being stuck in a makeshift job that was just temporarily created... and this doesn't even come close to the many more jobs lost over the past year... and sadly, since "saving" jobs is not technically calculated, the 650,000 number could easily be embellished.

What this story really is is another one to draw your attention while they slide by a massive tax bill called a Healthcare Plan. Check out The American Political Action Committe website - what the haven't told you is 30% of the people who will get FREE healthcare are TAX EXEMPT ILLEGALS. That there's a $1T tax gap deficit that taxpayers are going to get stuck for. That doctors will have set rates and no specialist fees ---oh, watch the med students decide not to specialize now!! That people making under $100,000 will pay 20% tax for this. That senior will be required(mandated) to attend death preparation counciling even after they lied and said not so! That special need children will have their help cut.

So, read about it and find out just what Obama & Pelousi have lied about and scream to your Senators and Congressmen NOW!

Might try turning off the radio, TV, and computer and forget the news for one day. Get out into the community and take notes of the new businesses... and the businesses that have caved. How many people fight to clean your windshield at the filling station? How many people ask you for spare change everytime you go to the store? How have the driving patterns in your city or town changed? Lots less traffic I'll wager.

Our community college just shut down their winter schedules. Where is the stimilus money to educate? Even the large thrift store that was here moved because they weren't making it!

More nonsense from Obama.

NY23 will be the first sign of real change.

Go Doug Hoffman!

I want a list, seriously, of ALL the jobs types that were created and saved. Wouldn't that be helpful in understanding or even believing for once that figure?? Someone?? Anyone??

I can confidently tell you what jobs was created or saved.

CEOs, bankers, loan sharks, Wallstreet traders, call centers for banking, realtors, KBR, Halliburton, Pawnshops, titleloan businesses, repo business, con artists, lobbyists, oh don't forget lazy politicians.........

Remember, these jobs above produce little but command alot more money than a average blue collar job. Without the stimulus, most of them would be out of a job.

Ah, luckily I'm staying in a hotel room so I had the pleasure of getting cable television, and thus Fox News, so I had a first-hand glimpse of how this mob-theory nonsense truly works.

Step One: Obama releases a statement.

Step Two: Fox News almost immediately discredits it. (in fact, this one was immediately cut to a panel of conservative analysts who immediately discredited it, providing no facts or sources to back up their opinions).

Step Three: Fox News replays this "panel of experts" discrediting Obama without facts to support it, three times, every hour, for three hours.

Step Four: These idiots on Newsvine turn on their televisions when they wake up and see this story. They get angry about it.

Step Five: They see this AP report and come out in storm, panning Obama without a single fact to support their reasoning. Using the exact same arguments the analysts used, they parrot them on newsvine and sit back, confident they're politically involved.

It's sort of a joke, really. Luckily, they're still in the minority, and losing supporters by the day.

Open - Do you believe the numbers??

Dave,

I am a naturally skeptical person. Of course I am not 100% sure that these numbers are accurate.

But seeing as though I have no reason to believe that they are not, I will believe them until someone provides reasonable, documented proof that they're inaccurate.

Step One: Obama releases a statement.

Wrong already!

There you go again Cookie...mindless response from an obviously mentally challenged bleached-blonde! LOL

uhhhhh...repubs bad...dems good...uhhhhh

If I wasn't so sick I would be banging my head on the desk. This is just a big spin. All those on the Unemployment line are STILL WAITING!!!!!!

at the 2 white middle class americans that this helped are happy not bad 2 out of 650,000

"Check out the facts all you want. At least this is out in the open, not kept secret like Bush and Cheney because the "enemy might find out" when the "enemy" is the American people."

Please list for us the policies/executive orders/laws that Obama has reversed that are holdovers from the Bush regime. Make sure to indicate where the Obama policy is different from the Bush policy. Looking forward to your response!

To all of you who would genuflect in front of Obama, join the line with the media and kneel in front of him and unzip his pants.....

How could they have saved 650k jobs. The figures for Sept. came out last week and they said ONLY 560k people filed for new unemployment claims! Give me a effing break!

These a--holes in the media, the ASSociated press....and those in PMSNBC especially, are disgusting! SO IN THE TANK FOR THIS POSER IN CHIEF AKA TELEPROMPTER IN CHIEF!

I feel sorry for the suckers that voted this poor excuse of an administration into office, you should be ashamed!

This is a BOLD lie.

Over 10 per cent unemployment, 18,000.000 people out of work.

What this buffoon (WH), too is talking about, is miniscule compared to the still Unemployed. It's like taking a very small town's population, and all of them are out off work.

Lies again. Who's putting out this Propaganda?.

The Americans are smarter than Obama and his lying reporters.

Announced today, the stock market took a deep flip, unemployment is at it's highest, and NOBODY has, or wants to spend money. Thus, the Economy is also in big trouble. Who didn't know this?

Jack and Jane from the kids book, could figure this out. Big Bird from Sesame Street could figure this out, too. How about Elmo?

OPEN_MINDED:

YOU are the side that is losing supporters...

YOU are obviously CLOSED MINDED....

Obama underestimates the intelligence of the American People.

We are all smarter than he is. Harvard Degree? Toilet Paper.

Considering the stimulous money was given to Unions as payback, given to others for raises or bonuses, given for the one month long cash-for-clunckers, and ofcourse our $5 per week, oh, remodeling a bathroom (which I would prefer not hiring a person who may not be experienced), etc., I would doubt that my $5 per week or Union money created any jobs. But if my $5 per week did, those jobs will be gone in another year when the "biggest tax cut in history" ends. Does that mean we will then have the biggest tax increase in history, since BHO will then be raising taxes to what they were before his "worlds biggest tax cut" ??? He said he wouldn't raise anytaxes on us, unless we are now considered rich.

Why don't we count the number of taxes that BHO has created or saved ???

open_minded - you are not! You better change your name. How about closed_blinded? Maybe when CNN releases their report after they fact check it you will be more open minded to the truth.

I think I figured it out. He did save all those jobs. He saved all the "union" jobs. This Country is so screwed.

Well I'm still breathing today, so by the govt standards they saved my life today! Now I'll wait around for them to send me a bill, or raise my taxes to pay for this service.

Jobs "saved" is impossible to measure and even more impossible to attribute. It is a demonstration of how stupid and gullible the administration thinks the American people are. Although it does not surpise me that MSNBC can't wait to run whatever press release the White House puts out, it does surprise me that there are people that actually buy this crap.

To everyone very cleverly (not) suggesting I'm "close-minded",

I have the facts to support my reasoning. Everything I said was first-person experience. I'm not sure how I can be incorrect about that. If you want to check Fox News archives, they will back up my recollection.

Then I backed it up with geniunely poll numbers, that Republicans are losing Independent voters by the day, Obama's approval rating has been rising consistently for three months and now is over 55%. That's a fact, kids. Prove me wrong, please. I dare you.

Beyond that, I honestly don't know what I'm being close-minded about. I said two statements, and they were both factual and accurate.

The fact that it's your immediate impulse to think I'm wrong probably speaks a lot more to your closed-mindedness than mine, kids.

What a crock, just like the GPI was a lie!!!!! lie!!!!! lie!!!!! lie!!!!!! OBAMA administration is all a lie!!!!!!

The idea that the government can create or save jobs is one that contradicts itself because for the government to raise the funds to create a job it first has to take those funds from the people and denies the people the right to employ the services they desire and instead subjugates them to the services the government promotes regardless to if those services are of any utility to the people, let alone equal compensation for the treasure looted via taxation.

I agree LMarcT,

It's gotten to the point where 3 out of every 4 posters on here are spewing exactly the same propoganda, being purposely inflammatory and not adding a single thing to the conversation, while collapsing any comment that they don't agree with.

Tyler, buddy, if you're going to have a message board like this, you need to keep a closer eye on it. This means blocking or removing people that are saying blatantly racist or inflammatory things.

For example, three posters above me compared Obama to Hitler, while two expressed Obama's supporters interest in performing oral sex on our President. Is that really okay? Meanwhile, two liberal comments, which weren't inflammatory in the slightest and just expressing their opinion, are collapsed and censored...for no apparent reason.

I have no problem with conservatives expressing their opinions. It's a free country. But if they can't do it in a civilized manner, it's not fair to the people who actually want to have an intelligent discussion about these matters to be shunted to the side by these insulting, screaming, nutjobs.

This will probably be collapsed as well. Whatever.

aaaaaaagggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh

so much for bs statistics

Watch:

There will be a new statement put out, "We misread the numbers of the Unemployed".

Back trackers, it is Pravda all over again.

Cuba Si, Cuba No? (Castro) From the Cuban Government in the 1960's.

Now, is it America Yes, America No? What's happened to America the Wonderful?.

Obama is spreading his Ideology all over America. We can vote them out next term, after all the damage that has been done.

Instead of playing this stupid game of trying to count jobs… which is impossible… (i.e. is it new jobs? Is it saved jobs? Saved or new for 2 days, a week, a year, 5 years? Etc.), lets talk about labor dollars. Stay with me here.

I contend that every dollar that goes to a person to pay for some value that person has provided, is correctly targeted stimulus money. It is money earned (and saved or spent) that would not have been earned without the stimulus package… agreed?

For ease, we’ll round the stimulus to $500 Billion to provide for pure graft that the right will claim. Lets lop off 20% for profit (which should be counted as stimulus in my opinion), which leaves $300 Billion. Assuming we believe that management and administration payments are “valued” and should be included in any stimulus labor dollar number, the only thing you would remove from the $300 Billion is the raw cost of materials… and given that the majority portion of material costs can be traced back to the labor to extract it, mold it, shape it, or assemble it, we can conservatively claim $200 Billion going directly into the hands of PEOPLE for providing value that will be spent or saved.

You want to claim one job per $50,000? Fine! That’s 4,000,000 jobs

So as you can see, Obama’s 3,000,000 jobs number is not only reasonable, it is conservative! Point is that it did what it was supposed to do…

The White House has created another 650,000 tons of Obaaaaaamanure.

Open_minded...... I just proved you wrong !!!!

I just took AN ACCURATE POLL of my house hold.

Obama ..................... 0

Independent ............ 1

Therefore, Mr. Obama receives a 0% approval rating.

Just more fuzzy math from a fuzzy administration. This is just one more boondoggle that will be pale in comparision to the healthcare disaster that awaits us from this dummycratic congress. Clean house ASAP!

wow. $850 BILLION dollars to create/save 650,000 (debateable) jobs. That's over $1M for each $25-40K job (on average salaries/benefits). That means more than $950K PER JOB is wasted on overhead or topics unrelated.

That's wastage that gave the fools on the hill a reason to send someone to cut Wall Street salaries by 90%, and causes Barney Frank to threaten to go after ANY public firm that he doesn't like...

AND THESE MORONS WANT US TO GIVE THEM NEARLY $3 TRILLION DOLLARS A YEAR FOR HEALTH CARE 'REFORM'?

Vote them out ASAP. Neuter Obama for the last 2 years of his hopefully failing 'fundamental transformation of America' because we can't afford another day of this silliness.

say it is 600,000. at $787,000,000,000 it is $1.2 million per job created or saved. at tax payer expense. only Obamas make that much money per year. is it really worth it. considering the multiple millions who are out of work the figure is less than 0.1% on the work force. that goes right along with the actual cost of "cash for clunkers" which cost the government $24000 per car. and these are the fools people also want running our health care

There was a 1949 movie that was titled "Always leave them laughing"

It must have been Obama's favorite movie when he was growing up, but now the laugh's on us.

LMarcT...funny you should point out the series of posters! Since you brought it to my attention, I notice that you do EXACTLY the same thing!

Projection...a term you might wish to look up. If you love BO so much, you may also be someone suffering from NPD as he is.

The other nice point is that nearly 25% of the 'permanent' new jobs ARE GOVERNMENT JOBS! That means 'We The People' lose on every one of them because taxpayers pay their salaries. While our money gets redistributed in the economy, I'd have rather done it than another government worker - we lose on THAT overhead too.

Yeah, right. All it saved were gov't jobs and did create some road building jobs that were already to go anyway. Don't think you can count those.

I thought if we didn't pass the stimulus bill the unemployment rate would go above 8%???? What happened Bamer??????

Huuummmm, $787 billion divided by $1 million means we spent $787,000.00 for every job created or we could have given every man woman and child in this country $2,248.00. Only a lib would be proud of that!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, open_minded, your initial comment was really civilized!! First you claim that everyone who disbelieves this article only listens to Fox. Then everyone who disagrees with you is a nutjob, etc. How can you be taken seriously? And LMarcT says everyone always posts the same thing. Odd how you're always on here posting your same stuff. You two are really hypocrites.

When one wears green colored specs, the Emerald City is indeed Emerald colored. But what would happen to Emerald City if one were to take off the specs?????????????

Hmmm, gotta ask Dorothy and the Scarecrow that one!!!

Just what we need, more smoke getting blown up you know where.

The White House suggests that FOX News does not report the news. Isn't that akin the the pot calling the kettle black? When will MSNBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, etc. stop shilling for the Obama disaster?

sjc - tom - cookie -

1 - what economic data did bush/cheney keep from the public? be aware that there are certain economic indices never released, under any administration. if it's military news/information you refer to, then like any administration, it was 'need to know' or what was needful to keep men and women in the field safe.

2 - why the derisive comment about teabagging? what does that have to do with this discussion? if you refer to the t.e.a. parties, i suggest you go to cnbc's archives for the genesis of that movement, and a trader on the floor of the chicago merc. and btw, many in the t.e.a. party movement were already vocal about the largesse of the prior president as well. i guess you choose to ignore that.

3 - just as you libbies expressed your (mostly venomous) dislike of the previous administration, be aware that far more people dislike this president than disliked the previous president.

4 - what we're seeing is not the 'post racial' reconciliation we were promised, nor 'the most ethical congress in history', nor 'the open and transparent healthcare debate on cspan with all parties participating', nor 'coming together as Americans, not as democrats or as republicans'.

what we're seeing is a demonization of those who express or hold a different viewpoint or opinion. that's what lenin did - used a (somewhat) free press to convince the public of his message, then when he obtained power, the first thing he did was round up the newspaper owners and publishers and execute them. but that's always been the liberal way. (and the 2nd thing lenin did was round up and execute gun owners, followed by clergy then those who publicly disagreed with him).

This may be true, but the real question is WHERE have they been created or saved using our money, because it damn sure ain't nowhere near my neck of the woods, for sure. More than likely we saved some Chinese worker or some illegal in our country their job.

breraking news!!

Obama just farted, saving 1 bizzziontrillion jobs

colleen-392992

Since you brought it to my attention, I notice that you do EXACTLY the same thing!

Pretty lame statement. I am but one poster. I have used the same handle for years now. I cannot, as one poster, pose as many. I do not even try to take over the conversation on a board. I try not to use foul language or intent, although I have to admit to it about once a week... when I've had enough.

Not EXACTLY the same, is it?

Take your thread back... you can have it.

I posted some logic that shows 4,000,000 jobs @ $50,000 each to be not only possible, but probable... problem is that there really isn't a discussion here... no intelligence in thought... its just a frenzy-for-the-fringe.

Have fun.

"When those numbers, provided by recipients of a small portion of federal contracts funded by Recovery Act money, showed only 30,383 jobs had been created, the White House quickly discounted them and cited its estimate of 1 million or more jobs."

And we all know that a preliminary check by the AP showed a minimum of 5,000 errors. What is this? Just pull a "feel-good number" out of your hat? Just because you say or report success, doesn't mean that in reality, you achieved it.

"The White House promised the data would be far more reliable than the first batch of numbers on federal contracts, which the administration initially embraced, then branded a "test run" after thousands of errors were discovered."

The Administration said, "Oops...people caught on quickly that we fudged the figures. Better use the excuse "test run" and hope the American people believe us on the second-go-around. I know, we'll change the numbers by exponentially growing our original figures and hope that people will be so impressed, they will take us at our word." Clearly this Administration thinks the public are a bunch of morons.

BSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBS What a crock and what ever the figures say tomorrow or whenever is also a crock. Tell the people out of work how wonderful you are BO - I'm sure they all have a few words for you.

Where is America?

You must live in the South!

Can you please contact the Obama Administration and get the names of these people whose jobs were saved ?????? I would like to contact them to see if this is true.

The Stock Market is being manipulated by George Soros.

Bet on it--a false market. Good Economy. BS.

Obama's sticky fingers are in everything but Jello pudding.

Un Common Common Sense:

How can we prevent the Democrats from doing their job? Term limits. It's too late for that.

We are already living in a potentially Communist country. They along with Obama, are the Evil peoples.

Evil, just plain Evil.

Hey fellow Americans:

We are the Majority here! Obama and his cronies are in the minority. Watch the Polls sink to 30 per cent.

Bush was a Master President, compared to this overrated double speak talker, Obama.

CA Educated: regarding this administration thinks the public are a bunch of morons...well we did vote it in with the worse legislature ever!

I'm gonna vomit. This admistration didn't create a million jobs anywhere and like Nancy's health care program, the numbers are presented in a way to create false findings. Do the Dems really believe we are all stupid or is this report just proof...they are all stupid. Amazing!

Hey fellow Americans:

We are the Majority here! Obama and his cronies are in the minority. Watch the Polls sink to 30 per cent.

Think so? If you believe that, I've got some oceanfront property in Nebraska to sell you. Obama's approval rating is still above 50% in most polls; the only ones he's not are the "fair and balanced" (yeah, that's a laugh!) Fox News and the decidedly right wing Rasmussen poll. If you held an election tomorrow Obama would still win, if for no other reason than that the Republicans wouldn't be able to put a candidate out there that would have a chance. Don't start talking about "third party" either...the most likely case for a third party would be far right conservative, who would do nothing except a) take votes away from Republicans, and b) get about 10% of the vote and return to obscurity.

You are not in the majority! You watch too much Fox News and listen to too much Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck. Time to wake up and smell the coffee...

For a while it looked as if the bottom one-fifth of the country would be running the government.

There in a nutshell is what's wrong with the right wingers. How do you measure the "bottom one-fifth" of the country? By income? Income only helps those who want to spend their money to buy politicians! By the number of votes they cast? The "top one-fifth" (or, more accurately, the top 5%) has no more votes than anyone else, except those they buy.

The right was voted out of office by that bottom one-fifth. And they'll stay voted out until the Republicans can agree on a viable candidate...and they can't agree on much and have very few choices...

dg, you are a pathetic dirt bag if you are still dangling from Hussein's sack. The dumbassocrats are going to lose in New York, New Jersey, and Virgina. The Marxist in Chief is FINISHED!

I feel sorry for someone who is so dismally uninformed...

RE: Voting:

Just because the previous President was bad, folks please think your vote through thoroughly before punching out the ballot or Absentee ballot for someone who is beyond worse than the last.

Impulsive voting gets someone worse than the last President. It always happens.

It only takes a couple minutes of deep thinking.

Please don't vote with your heart, vote with knowledge. (Next time)

100% Correct Sadie Even though FOX is the most watched news broadcast in the Country... Those wearing the "Special glasses" can see the Bamacasting networks like, MSNBamaC, ABamaC, and CBamaS. The reason we can't see them without the glasses is that intellegent people like us rely on facts to feed us correct information to make informed decisions regarding our own well being. Sheep on the other hand need constant reassurance from their Flock'n Leader. Problem is that their Flock'n Leader has been drinking out of the stagnant water hole while the sheep were frolicking in the meadow! He's out of his flock'n mind!

LMarcT -

You do this in a lot of threads, liberal math that works out nicely to make your point. The problem with your math is, you make a bunch of assumptions and none of them actually apply in this particular instance.

Of course it's possible to twist up the numbers and say, 4 million jobs COULD be created. The fundamental problem with that is, for every dollar that ends up in some lucky recipients pocket, probably $5 had to be taken out of another taxpayers pocket.

If you want to believe this worked, fine. But remember, just yesterday they swore by the 30k, and based on a small analysis, their now claiming it was a "test run". Why would you, or should you, believe that this number is accurate?

Moreover, the policy behind it is the fundamental problem people have. The American people did not support the stimulus package. The American people saw that spending 3/4 of a trillion dollars we did NOT have was not a good plan. Initial reports were wrong, now this comes out and we're supposed to accept it? This administrations "transparency" has been less than transparent, it's "accountability" less than accountable. Why do YOU believe it? And don't give me more fuzzy math with assumptions, please. I can do that too, but since I realize how little value that excersise has, I'll pass.

According to RealClear, that averages the major polls, Obama is down to 52.9% approval rating. Fox polls has him at 50%. With a 3% margin of error, that's basically the same number.

And to LMarcT and OpenMinded - Both of you resort to typical liberal tactics, in the face of information you can't support with facts. There is every reason to distrust these numbers, simply because previous numbers have been debunked already. Assuming you are both taxpayers and not on the dole, don't you WANT an accurate and trustworthy accounting of how tax money is being spent? Do you want to accept, just because they say so, that it did what it was supposed to do? Or don't you want some believable, supportable, documented proof? I do, and if they can provide that proof? Then I'll believe it.

And yet, you want to try to belittle people by saying they're teabaggers, and Faux news drones, and imply that their paid posters who log on at the same time every day and post the same thing, when they mistrust numbers that were wrong the last time they were reported? They don't post the same thing, anymore than you do. You support this liberal redistributive unsustainable agenda of Obama's, they don't. You log on and post, why can't we assume you're both paid?

The fact is, this administration is failing. People may like Obama, but they don't like his policies. When Bush went down to 50%, people crowed and said there! Proof, he sucks! Well, he did suck. Now you want to say, with Obama at 50%, that over half the country approves of him!!!

Half the country also disapproves, and no one's a fan of Congress who has a 24.8% approval rating. Newsflash for you both, this isn't a popularity contest and Obama's not a rockstar. He's bankrupting this country, and people are watching. Next Tuesday will be the beginning of the end for the short-lived Democrat majority, because while you guys seem able to win elections by promising people the moon, the Democrats fail when it comes to actually governing.

Reposting collapsed comments? LOLOL.

Fairly typical liberal, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

Glen Beck, go get them and spank em.

Seriously, Tom. The "teabagger" mantra is played and tired, and it makes you sound completely ignorant. These demonstrations are not filled with right-wing extremists, despite what Olberman has drilled into your brain. As the economy continues to falter....and it will.....those groups will do nothing but grow. People are fed up with this out of control government and have been for years. It's time to reclaim our constitutional republic and get back to sanity. When the dollar collapses and we slide into the worst depression in history, will you still be on here backing the same people that created the problem? Turn the TV off for a while and do some research.

The Obama administration is just doing more of the same, and yet somehow you are unable to see this. All that has been done is that the American people have been robbed. The continued spending of money that does not exist until the Fed prints it up will do nothing but destroy the dollar. The "solutions" you are advocating are not solutions but a furthering of the problem. You stick to this nonsense left/right, republican/democrat dichotomy as if somehow these two parties are fundamentally different. Both parties are owned by the same people, and Bush and Obama are controlled by the same interests.

So long as we continue with this fiat currency backed by the Fed system with the fractional reserve banking that goes with it, our economy is going to tank and tank hard. Obama has done nothing to even propose serious regulation to prevent what has happened from happening again. It's not a surprise, really, since he received more money from Wall Street than McCain did. You won't see him do anything that will make any real effort to correct our problems. People need to wake up, and I suggest you do the same.

The solution to our ills is not an easy one, but you won't find either of these parties willing to actually make the tough choices. Most of them think they will still be in office after 2010.

Apparently you lack reading comprehension, otherwise you would realize that I was criticizing Bush and his cronies as well.

Here's your plan-

1.) Withdraw from NAFTA and GATT.

2.) Slash government spending - eliminate all unnecessary programs, which frankly are most of them.

3.) Eliminate the income tax - it's unconstitutional anyways.

4.) Abolish the Federal Reserve (again, unconstitutional) and the fractional reserve banking system. Institute sound money principles. This means getting rid of the fiat currency that we have. All fiat currencies in history have collapsed. The dollar is going to collapse.

5.) Do whatever is possible to bring business back to the US. #1 would help with this. Don't create more government jobs. Government jobs add nothing since they are paid for by taxes and borrowed money.

6.) Re-enact the Glass-Steagall act and other controls that prevent investment banks and lending banks from being one and the same.

7.) Restrict the Federal government to the powers outlined for it in the US Constitution. Their main job is to protect the civil liberties of the people.

8.) Pull out of the foreign wars. Protect our own borders, clean up our own mess, and serve as an example for other countries to follow.

9.) Stop subsidizing programs that encourage illegal immigration. #2 would go a long way towards that.

There's nine things. What the current administration is doing will not solve our problems, no matter how much you want to believe it. You don't get out of debt by borrowing money. You don't improve the quality of life for your citizens by making one half support the other. You don't solve problems by letting the government take over and erode civil liberties.

The US dollar is being devalued on a daily basis, and now the rest of the world is planning to remove it from the world reserve currency status. Once that happens, trillions of dollars will flood into this economy buying anything of value. Meanwhile, the dollars in your pocket will become nearly worthless. Get ready for it, because it is coming. The current stimulus plans are only going to make that worse, since we are now further in debt.

Stop watching TV for your news. The media is controlled by about six corporations with much different interests than your interests.

Oh, you mean like "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" is that what you are trying to get across, Michael.

I had no idea there were so many czars and staff in the White House.

Timothy Lingard - At least Bush DID something...this do-nothing president is afraid to make a mistake much less make a decision.

I'd pretty much measure by IQ, yours certainly fits in the bottom1/5.

I'd love to challenge you on that, but I have a policy of not picking on the unarmed.

Lets see how many jobs the Bush socialist bailout program saved.....a bunch of bank CEOs becoming millionaires off of bonuses......wow thanks.

I need some help here with my math.

Obama said that the "stimulus" would keep unemployment from going above 8%, but we have now lost about 3 million more jobs ABOVE that 8% limit, and yet he claims that it has "created or saved" a million jobs.

How does losing an additional 3 million jobs add up to a "gain" of 1 million jobs.

I always thought that I was pretty good at math, but I seem to be missing something.

Can someone help me figure this out?

I just figured out that Bush "created or saved" 4 million jobs in his last 10 months in office.

Why is this not being reported by the media?

All of you who are slamming the "tea bagger mentality" need to realize, the tea party movement started while Bush was in office, about a year before the election. It started in protest of Bush's big spending, big goverment agenda that he was allowing to get jammed through by the Democrats in charge of Congress. This agenda continues, and thrives, during the Obama administration, because Obama is continuing a big spending, big government agenda.

That's not change.

You need to realize that Obama isn't doing much of anything of significance that is CHANGE. The change he campaigned on, the change people were hopeful for. Millions of people, and remember he only won with 52% of the popular vote, voted for that change when they ordinarily would not vote Democratic and they're regretting that vote now.

And now 10 months later, he's personally pushed for Wall Street to get $500 billion (minimally), he's taken over car companies, and the structure in the financial sector is just as dangerous - if not more - than before. There is no change.

The country CANNOT carry this kind of debt. We cannot keep spending money like he is proposing to do. This isn't party line ranting, this isn't Rep. vs Dem., this is economic reality. There is NO MONEY LEFT. The government cannot keep piling liabilities on business small and large and expect employment to rebound.

You guys, meanwhile, in defense of this just say "would it better to do nothing??!" Well, yes, it would be better to do nothing, when what you're doing actually makes matters worse.

Or do something different, perhaps?

One thing that could have been included in the stimulus that would have DIRECTLY created jobs, is a tax credit for business to hire. The Democrats WOULD NOT pass that, because they were afraid people would falsify their taxes. Why do they fear this? Because their ranks are filled with tax cheats - Daschle, Rangle, Geithner, etc.

Deke outlines some great ideas, but some are farfetched even though I agree. Dismantling the Fed simply isn't going to happen, and there's a lesson in that: When government is allowed to grow, it NEVER shrinks.

These things, I think would go along way:

They could, with a one-page piece of legislation, overturn Gramm/Leech/Bliley which effectively degregulated the financial system and helped lead to last years collapse. With one more page, they could officially reinstate Glass-Steagal. This would cause an immediate and much needed restructuring of the financial institutions that were too big to fail last year, and have become even bigger since then due to absolutely NO regulation from this administration.

Get your fact straight:

Bush signed the original TARP, and released half the money.

As President Elect, Obama asked Bush to release the other half in January. Bush did.

Shortly after taking office, Obama then jammed through another bailout, TALF, that was worth $200 billion.

Now, I'd done nothing in this post except point out facts. They are not hysterical rantings, they are verifiable facts. I haven't called anyone names, nor have I accused anyone of regurgitating Olbermann and Maddow talking points. Lets just see if the liberals can respond in kind.

By the way, Tom, I'm not in the habit of flagging posts unless they're over the top insulting, rude or vulgar, which yours weren't.

They were over the top in their lack of any rational thought, and over abundance of name calling and finger pointing, but I like it when you liberals do that. It's a gift that just keeps on giving to conservatives.

So, please, carry on! But realize one small thing, bolding your entire post doesn't make what you're saying true. Just , ya know, FYI.

Good points, Pragmatic, and I appreciate the call-out. We do disagree on this, however: "Dismantling the Fed simply isn't going to happen" It will happen. Guaranteed. It will either be nationalized and brought back under the auspices of the Treasury department, or outright abolished. Why? Because when the dollar tanks the rage of the people will make it happen. We are heading back to a commodity-based currency in the not-too-distant future. We'll have no choice.

Cookie,

Your blondeness is showing again...please read the post before making stupid comments about it. Retired wrote simply

Glen Beck, go get them and spank em.

Doesn't sound to me like it deserved an "eeewwwwww" from you. No, Retired doesn't want to spank Glen Beck...how do you read what was written and come to your conclusion? You must read the administration's propaganda like you read posts on this vine...

Seriously though...

Glen Beck is at least trying to understand the why's of what we're doing! Connecting the dots and analyzing the relationships of all these people is interesting and enlightening. And since it's Halloween... it's frightening!

Not many would venture into these waters on TV. Rick Savage does it on radio.

There needs to be a Paul Revere out there... and these guys are as close to it as they come. I'm surprised that they haven't been physically attacked yet.

Let's assume for a minute the numbers are right...that means each job saved cost the taxpayers $1,178,461 at this point. VERY GOOD NeoLibs! VERY GOOD.

AC

To LMarcT - You must really hate being in the minority. Even your "fuzzy, feel good math" doesn't stand up to scrutiny, let alone, in the business world, that sort of expense for job creation would be a disaster! The "stimuless" is a joke and is not actually solving any problems or creating long term, product-producing jobs. (We need these desperately if we are going to continue to have money to fund the bloated, corrupt govt. machine.) A town nearby received some stimulus money, but they can't use it until they buy the $3000 (each) signs to put at the work site. More corruption pure and simple, as the sign, if it were purchased in a normal fashion, would be far less. (Honestly, we don't need the signs at all.)The Administration is so focused on blowing their own horn, they'll waste hundreds of thousands on signs. Oh, and the unemployment in our county was last charted at 11.9%, so much for 8%!

ABC News said last night that in Calif. alone the Stimulus spent $5 billion on 250 rail road projects jobs. Week later the WH dropped that down to 150 jobs created. Then the WH came out and said only 74 jobs were created on that rail road project. That comes to a bit over $1.6 million of taxpayer dollars to create one Job. Seems like the WH needs to take a basic math class if you ask me. So I wonder how many jobs they created really, besides the CZAR jobs.

Well, Mr. President......Just how many jobs were saved or started because of your stimulus plan? Guess the tally will change again this next week !!!

Initial estimate of jobs created (or saved) was 30,000, this article says 650,000, other sites say 640,000, and now your Chief, Administration Economic Advisor (Christina Romer) just stated today (10/31/02) on CNN with Wolf Blitzer that the Stimulus Plan created or saved 1,000,000 jobs even as the unemployment rate continues to increase. And she isn't concerned about JOBS, but about an increase in GDP. What a bunch of crap !!!!!

Talk about SMOKE AND MIRRORS.

If it were republicans in charge they would claim the 650,00 jobs only they would have been jobs created as out sourced jobs from the US to India....but still technically they would have been jobs created...........at least these are not out sourced jobs.

Debbie, actually, your post may be more true than you think. But since the Democrats are the ones running the show, they are not going to share that little tidbit with you. You do know that stimulus money is being sent to the UK to manufacture fuel efficient trucks? The bottom line is that the real goal has not been met. CREATE LONG-TERM, PRODUCT-PRODUCING JOBS!!! Only that will get America back on its feet. But then, the Democrats can't seem to wrap their minds around this simple goal.

Debbie....the republicans are forcing outsourcing jobs to India...No democrats are involved in that????...That is the most ignorant partisan thing I have read until I read the next ignorant partisan thing.....Its all republican is it??? I must have missed all those factories opening up here since Obama got elected. Or, almost three yrs ago when dems became the majority in congress??? How about when Clinton was president??? No, jobs still leaving in all those cases....but just close you mind and tell another one.

He DID say create or save jobs.

YOU lie.

Per Reuters News report in January 10th of this year:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President-elect Barack Obama said on Saturday an analysis of his stimulus proposals showed that up to 4 million U.S. jobs could be saved or created by 2010, nearly 90 percent of them in the private sector.

Obama said previously his estimated $800 billion plan to lift the country out of a yearlong recession would create or save 3 million jobs, but the new analysis showed that number would range between 3 million and 4 million.

You are so anxious to debunk what Obama says, you can't get your facts straight. :-//

One cannot accurately measure "saved" jobs. That was the loop hole Obama and his administration came up with to save face. They make up all sorts of stuff - the first being the Office of the President Elect complete with a fake seal and all.

Wasn't the tally reported yesterday or earlier this week closer to 30,000 new jobs?

Michael, stop and think about that for a second. You are so drunk on Obama flavoered Kool-Aid that you are running to his defense over the misunderstanding of one word instead fo seeing that he was off by 80% on his prediction of the number of jobs.

God help us if the real cost of this healthcare mess if five times what he is saying.

For your own good, please start looking at things as they are instead of blindly defending a man who is mis-leading you at every turn.

It's not about running to Obama's defense (which how do you cirticise when you run to the attack?).

An issue was made about the "create or save" jobs comment when he made it. The Republicans somehow thought it was NOT a productive use of stimulus money to SAVE police jobs, to SAVE teachers jobs, to SAVE city workers jobs! What was their logic there? Save a job, create a job; the net result is the same. Someone has a job they would not have had if it wasn't saved.

I remember the ruckus very clearly. And, if dufus up there really knew the facts, he would not rely on one news article to ensure his claim was correct.

Michael, perhaps you could enlighten us. How does one assess jobs that were saved?

Michael, please, please seek help. Tell me where I attacked Mr. Obama here. I did not rush to attack. I did not even attack.

You did however defend - very poorly I might add.

In defense of PK here, you state a simple equation. However, you are relying on politicians to tell the truth about whether or not those people were really going to be laid off in the first place. This measurement is too fast and loose. And, had a Republican tried such a measurement, you would run them through the ringer - just be honest with yourself, you know you woudl and you should

Please do educate the rest of us. Please do bring us up to your level of intellect. Please tell me how I can make 650,000 (or any other number) equal 3,000,000. If I can accomplish that task, I will quintuple my 401k and retire.

Please do educate us oh great intellectual Democrat - Dem-wit as I affectionately call you.

Michael

If I mislead it was unintentional. Here is the link I got my info from.

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28695368/

But you forget one simple thing; once the stimulus wears off what will happen? I think you're going to have many states waaaaay over budget and they'll have to make up that money in two ways: tax or cut. The stimulus is keeping the broken economy afloat and not allowing it to restructure the proper way. Bush did it and now Obama's doing it.

Wisconsin Bob, the statement always was for those jobs to be created within 2 years.

Personally I doubt the 650K figure is even remotely accurate, but who knows. I also doubt all of those jobs can remotely be considered permanent jobs. It will be interesting to see how close to 10% the unemployment figures are when released next week. It seems like each month Pres Obama announces all these created/saved jobs, yet the ensuing week we are told unemployment continues to rise.

Jay Brown: That is why so many states didn't want to take the stimulus money. They didn't want to create a situation where they had programs in place that would end up being unfunded mandates once the stimulus money was gone.

dcisshovelready,

If I was too harsh, I apologize.

I saw the article. Let me just say, if you had heard the comments from Obama's mouth, you would have known something was wrong with the truncation in that article, and checked the completeness of it. I found one that accurately reflected what Obama said.

Based on what you found alone, yes, I can see how you would make the statement you did.

Good to see some manners on the vine today. Good job Michael Buie and dcisshovelready!

Michael and DC- Nice to see some grown ups. Now if we could only find some in Washington.

The Cap & Trade Bill which Obama claims will create jobs will but they will be in China! It will average a lose of 2.5M jobs in the US for the next 5 years!

Should be interesting to see how they slant the seasonal workers being laid off in the next 30 days.

Gee, and it only cost the taxpayers an average of $24,000 per car in the clunkers program!

Michael Buie

Can you BE enlightened? Try to follow this very simple logic:

If a city says they have to lay off or fire 600 police officers and 400 sanitation workers, that's 1000 jobs lost.

If an infusion of stimulus money allows the city not to do that, guess what? 1000 jobs have been saved.

Michael,

See here is the issue.. Thoes jobs that would of been lost due to lay offs fall into the Budget shortfalls for the City. Aka the City expected X money from Tax Revenue and they actually recieved x-500.

The thing with the Stim Program. One of the conditions of taking said money was that it could not be used to balance the city budgets. We tried it here at the local Gvmnt that I work for, and were told no.

So please inform me, how when you cannot use it to sure up the budget ( and payroll is part of your budget) how these jobs were " saved " with the Stim package?

I have one more question about the logic of saved jobs. Every saved job that I have seen mentioned is a government job paid for by tax dollars. Most of the created jobs in my state are sesoanal road repair also funded by tax dollars. This will not repair the damage done to the economy. Obama needs to remove the rose colored glasses and get to work not just print and throw money at every problem that is on his desk.

He's gonna start working on that tommorrow.....wait, he has a 9 AM tee time.....then he has basketball on Sunday.... maybe he'll squeeze it in on Monday.

DCI -

Obummer is true to his word. His math is correct. He created 650,000 gubmit jobs; Less than the 20% of the 3 to 4 million he was going to create in total. He just did the gubmit jobs first!!

This @!$%#er needs to go and now!!

Let's say we give him the benefit of the doubt. 650,000 jobs saved or created. Now I'm not a big numbers guy but can we please have this number broken down between the two? X = the number of jobs save and Y = the number of jobs created. Why is the White House reporting it this way and why is the press accepting it? WTF is going on here!!!!!?

Michael Buie & dcisshovelready,

Actually, you both are correct. Mr. Obama's original statement was that the stimulus bill would create 3 million jobs, but, and to paraphrase Mr. Gibbs statement at a press conference, we didn't realize the economy was as bad as it was, the statement was changed to "create or save".

Either way, it is a very nebulous way of determining the effectiveness of any program. All you have to do is say that you were thinking about laying off or weren't planning on hiring anyone before you received any stimulus funds.

Personally, I think it would have been a lot less expensive and better if that money had been spent by the private citizens of the country. Oh yeah, I know people would pay bills or saved the money but think about it. Paying off credit card bills would of left more money in individuals pockets to be spent in the general economy. And putting the money in the bank would have allowed them to loan more to businesses which sorely needed it.

The "tax cut" (which was actually a estimated return from the taxes we would get next year) allowed us to hire someone to do some necessary yard work which did help the local economy a bit but if we had gotten a good share of that stimulus money, we could have hired somebody to do some needed repairs or replace some very energy inefficient equipment in and around our house, all if which would have boosted the economy instead of some donors pocket.

I do not care for obama, but here is part of his transcript on January of 2009. The report confirms that our plan will likely save or create 3 to 4 million jobs. 90 percent of these jobs will be created in the private sector - the remaining 10 percent are mainly public sector jobs we save, like the teachers, police officers, firefighters and others who provide vital services in our communities. But, we are far from the 3 to 4 million jobs it said it would take care of. Christina Romer has stated that we have already seen the affects of the stimulus and would not see much more. I would also like to have some confirmation about the jobs it saved and did it actually save any. I did just read that the jobs created was overstated and that a daycare stated it had created 182 jobs, but the news organizations found out that they did not hire any one, they used the stimulus money for giving the current employees pay raises. The government can't keep track of where any of the money goes. You want them controlling 1/6 of our economy with healthcare?

And the White House said;

So let it be written,

And MSNBC said;

so it shall be done.

Michael Buie, I "saved" too! I saved not gaining 20 pounds this month! No, make that 50 pounds this year!

How do you "count"? Make a number up and - bingo - we get the hot poker up the bleep while the "counters" are at it again.

This is what the far left - your comrade pals - want. Obey the state, bow to the state, worship the state, and best of all, force everyone else to do the same. THE GOVT IS NOT SACRED!

What responsibility do the left place on people? Tell me? What does the left expect people to be responsibile for? Be exact and don't answer by asking another question. What does the left expect people in this country to be responsible for? The correct answer is NOTHING! Except to have the hot poker crammed up while their pockets are picked and enjoy it!!!

Saved, created, created saved. Which is it Oboma? Did the stimulus saved or created? What has been created is a lot of confusion in the minds of your supporters. They were counting on you to do exactly what you said you would do! Either save or create jobs because they know you are unable to accomplish both at the same time.

The whole point is, the AP reported less than 30,000 jobs.49 out of 50 states report a net job LOSS. And in Obamaland they come up with 650,000 created or saved? Come on? Factor in the 3+million people who have lost their jobs since Obama rushed the porkulous through...now, tell me, how does that add up!?

tell me, how does that add up!?

One single state had a net gain of 3,680,000+ jobs. Haven't you heard?

In the last year, a large retail store was laying off close to 1000 employees by shutting down some depots, some stores, and office employees. This retailer SAVED some jobs by having one person do two jobs. How does this count in the report?

The "saved" jobs, if government jobs, is on the wrong side of the ledger. We already have too many citizens working in government and cannot afford them.

If this means the streets crumble, or we have to haul our trash to the dump, or whatever, the reality is that we cannot sustain the government we have.

Private sector jobs create a multiplier, while government jobs create a drain.

That isn't to say we don't need some government - but as a citizen of California, we have spent too much, for too long, and have no better quality of life (other than what nature provides) than any other state, and in many cases worse as we are overrun with illegal aliens.

So keep your damn government, this has gone on for too long - Rep & Dem alike. I will vote for true conservatives only regardless of party and will actively work against all liberal candidates and ideas, as they are drowning our country in strife, hate and debt.

I'm with Joe Wilson on this, "They Lie!"

the president's economic stimulus plan has directly created or saved about 650,000 jobs.

"You Lie"

Yes obama created 1 million Czars jobs whoo hooo!!

Michael Buie

It's not about running to Obama's defense (which how do you cirticise when you run to the attack?).

An issue was made about the "create or save" jobs comment when he made it. The Republicans somehow thought it was NOT a productive use of stimulus money to SAVE police jobs, to SAVE teachers jobs, to SAVE city workers jobs! What was their logic there? Save a job, create a job; the net result is the same. Someone has a job they would not have had if it wasn't saved.

Interestingly, those are all UNION JOBS and not really private sector jobs. The majority of jobs created or saved are city, state and federal jobs. Of course the Democrats want to save those jobs, those are their lobbyists, voting base and campaign contributors. Also, the stimulus was not a success. Millions of jobs have been lost...not saved or created and Obama also needs to make up for those jobs as well.

And by the way, I am not advocating that all persons holding Union type jobs become unemployed.

How can Obama be believable, when his entire term is made up of lies.

Obama is in another world thinking the people love him. That's what the media tells us.

Adoration from the media, then transferring this garbage for Americans to believe.

We're all Harvard Graduates!

LmacrT and Open-minded....

I post according to my experience, business knowledge, and from the reports that come every day from the various new sources. The Associated Press reported that the job creation and job saved information was not accurate. Hardly a bastion of conservative thought!

As for the same people posting here on the vine... I find it pretty evenly split on the consistency of those posting. I am sure that there are plants from both sides of the isle that run the party line ideas through here. Pointing fingers and using derogatory words doesn't help the discourse. But since last year the frustration has been building from discussion to yelling over and bashing! Sounds like regular politics to me!

I post here because it gives me the chance to voice my concerns according to what I see. The direction that this country is going is one that is only going to continue to dig a deeper hole. I have experienced recessions before. This recession is far different than any other that I have lived through. I have never seen homes being lost this way, and neither have I ever seen the type of intervention that the government has taken. Never have I seen the government try to hoist a massive program on the people that is costly and mandatory in participation at a time when folks are struggling to make ends meet.

Maybe you both feel that the remedy proposed/implemented and the direction of this country is the right antidote. But the basic principles being used have never worked in the past, and I cannot believe that it will work today.

Can you tell me where the sector of job creation is? One example would be good. And what kind of pay are these jobs offering? I'm wanting to see silver linings that are real... not imagined.

I found a transcript and this is where he mentioned saving jobs.

"I asked my nominee for Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers, Dr. Christina Romer, and the Vice President-Elect’s Chief Economic Adviser, Dr. Jared Bernstein, to conduct a rigorous analysis of this plan and come up with projections of how many jobs it will create – and what kind of jobs they will be. Today, I am releasing a report of their findings so that the American people can see exactly what this plan will mean for their families, their communities, and our economy.

The report confirms that our plan will likely save or create three to four million jobs. 90 percent of these jobs will be created in the private sector – the remaining 10 percent are mainly public sector jobs we save, like the teachers, police officers, firefighters and others who provide vital services in our communities."

So, anywhere from 250,000 to 650,000 of these jobs were created in the private sector if the data is substantiated / verifiable.

Toxic: I didn't hear; which one of the 57 states truly had a net gain of 3million plus jobs?

I wonder if you asked a person, whose job is paid by "public taxes," who probably is an average American, with a family, with bills, trying to pay for a place to live, food, clothes, etc. if his or her job was worth saving, he/she might say that ANY of the 650,000 jobs, jobs held by REAL PEOPLE who pay taxes, IS worth saving. To those of you who dismiss the saving of jobs, give YOUR job up, and tell us THEN what you think............

Hey Wisonsin, if you think it's "expensive" to save those jobs, give YOUR JOB up as a show of your beliefs.......tell us what not having a job is like afterwards, 'k??

Tom8842, you're wasting your time trying to rationalize with the "Obama-haters" posting here. They are blind with hatred and ignorance. They become more virulent when any good news is reported, that might reflect positively on the President (as seen on this thread) and they get downright giddy with joy whenever bad news comes out. It's a shame to see so many people derive satisfaction from news that the USA is failing. But then most of them revere Rush Limbaugh and he endorses failure.

I would like to thank the fourth estate for mindlessly reprinting yet another WH press release.

Excellent work!

Hey man. Take it easy. The reprinting of that press release probably saved a job or two. Where is your patriotism?

Lets assume the number is 650,000 jobs saved or created. What did those jobs cost us? We spent $ 280 billion.

$280 Billion / 650,000 jobs = $ 430,769.23 per job !

Well done! This is shameful and wasteful.

Actually, Cookie? You're right, it shouldn't have happened in the first place, it was tried before and failed, but OBAMA just wanted to flex his wee little presidential muscle and it is exploding in his face. No one in America wanted this, but he did it anyway, and its egg in his face.

Government doing something useful? Yes that would be good. Government taking some of the nannystate pressure off of business, and giving them tax breaks to hire? That would have been acceptable, and would have worked. The Democrats wouldn't do that, however, because they were afraid people would falsify their tax documents.

AND ONLY TIM GEITHNER, DASCHEL, RANGEL ETC ARE ALLOWED TO THAT!!!!!

I just regret he had to so colossaly screw the American people for them to WAKE THE F UP and realize the person they voted in is a far-left redistrubutionist.

No, we're not glad this failed, because IT'S OUR MONEY. Do you pay taxes, Cookie? You seem to post in a very pro-Democrat way, are they paying you off via welfare, foodstamps, what?

However, anyone with any understanding of ecomonmics knows - government spending of theis magnitude is NOT sustainable and does more harm than good. We pretty much knew this would fail, which is why we DIDN'T WANT IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

The liberals have had their way, and starting next Tuesday, they WILL be shown the door.

Jeremy,

How long will the jobs created or saved last with a one time lump sum of cash ??? When it's gone, then BHO will be responsible for losing all of these jobs. Wait....job losses will still be Bush's fault.

Cookie, I would not argue that the government should do more. i woudl argue they shoudl have done less. theyt incurred debt for nothing. businesses looked at the "stimulus" bill and saw it woudl do nothing and that they woudl be taxed more. The result is they cut back - which cost jobs that ate not counted in this whole mess.

Had BO and the rest of his team let the economy run it's coure, we woudl have created more that 650,000 (or 30,000 whatever the number is) jobs and had less debt for it. We woudl be climbing out of this meww already. They can't find their butts with four arms and a mirror, how do the ythink they are going to "fix" the economy.

Same article.

Different title.

I guess they figure if they say it LOUD enough, and REPEAT it enough, it will become fact.

Just like the amount of people who are SUPPOSEDLY in favor of a "public option" for healthcare.

These numbers are about as "concrete" as my last bowel movement..........although we all should be $hitting bricks!

This just in... Cookie has created or saved 226,500 democrats the need to weigh in on the article. In a related story, Cookie has just been awarded the Noble prize for Economics, Science, and Peace. Why not? It could happen.

I just watched some Democrat Congressmember who's name I didn't catch being interviewed about the job creation numbers. He was asked point blank (and the numbers up to 1 MILLION now, btw) if these numbers could be proven.

His responses were:

When Bush was in office, he didn't question anything that came out of that administration. (Wait, what!? Dems questioned when Bush got a glass of water. And shouldn't Congress question everything when it comes to the spending of taxpayer money?)

We shouldn't "nitpick" for exact numbers, the point is, it was the right thing to do. (it's just our tax money, why would we ever want an accurate accounting of it?)

And then he started in with ....

If the Republicans had THEIR way, nothing would be done! It is RIGHT for the government to spend money! (that they have to steal from taxpayers to have)

I'm trying to find out which Congressmember it was, if I can find a clip, I'll post it. It was .... typical BECAUSE WE SAY SO liberal garbage.

To all those who claim that the Bush administration never claimed to have used the "saved jobs" statistic;

• June 24, 2004, remarks by then-Agriculture Secretary Ann M. Veneman (retrieved from Nexis, emphasis added):

Our Rural Development programs also help communities with infrastructure such as electricity, water and telecommunications and with economic development assistance. We have estimated that our rural development programs have saved or created more than 500,000 jobs just since the Bush Administration took office in January of 2001. Recently we have seen more positive numbers showing that the U.S. economy created nearly a quarter of a million jobs last month alone for a total of 1 million jobs created in the last three months and about 1.5 million jobs in the past nine months.

Your wrong

http://mediamatters.org/research/200906090018

How much did that cost?

Was it passed despite the fact that American people opposed it?

Was it 100% deficit spending?

Well Pragmatic, since Bush had cut taxes on the rich by so much, it had to have been defecit spending.

How about Bush telling us to buy houses...forclosures. Telling us all was well....bankrupt banks..oh wait his socialist bailout did help Chet the CEO. Telling us Iraq had WMDs...millions dead...trillions in Republican spending. I guess Obama really tore it up on this one.

Just remember, when you excuse something people are objecting to under the Obama administration by saying, "Well, Bush did it too!" you are admitting guilt to it being a bad idea.

Just remember, that when Bush left office, his approval ratings were in the 30's. People didn't LIKE what Bush was doing.

Saying Bush did it? Probably convinces most of us even more that it was a bad idea. Especially when Obama campaigned on doing things differently - and is in reality doing the same things Bush did.

Do you get that?

And by the way, RE the bailouts, get your timeline straight:

Bush signed TARP, that Republicans did not support in Congress but Democrats did.

Half of the money, $350 billion, was released immediately. The public largely did not support this.

President-Elect Obama, in an unprededented overreach that would become the hallmark of his presidency, asked Bush to release the other half of the money in January. Bush did.

After taking office, Obama holds sole responsibility for another $200 billion in bailouts via TALF.

You guys make yourself look foolish arguing things that didn't happen, and are letting the Obama administration sucker you into believing exactly what they want you to believe - that the first round of bailouts was ALL Bush. Not really, not so much, when Obama ASKED him to release the funds intentionally while he was still in office - so the blame would fall on him.

There's dozen's of timelines out there that support this. Try the St. Louis Fed. Reserve timeline, if you want to actually KNOW what you're talking about.

Cookie....do you know if it is daylight or dark out??? Better go look.

No cookie you make yourself look ridiculous by going up against some one who obviously know more than you!

You mouthpieces always say, "lets here some facts!", "prove it!", and "what is your plan?". PragmaticToAFault, and many others have put forth many ideas, which will be good for the economy and maybe even save our children from a harder life, but you entitlement tools, live for today not tomorrow types don't want to hear that the gravy train should end.

You want universal health care, believe it when some talking head says they will give it to you, and think there will be no strings attached. You have no idea what you are allowing your elected officials to pass yet you fight tooth and toenail with others who have obviously educated themselves on the topic.

You demonize the pharmaceutical industry, but turn a blind eye when the administration has back door rendezvous to make deals with them to provide funding for their pro "Public Choice" campaign. Meanwhile the government is facilitating them to make windfall profits and you lot are oblivious.

Do you honestly believe they only intend to tax the rich? Do you even care what type of privacy rights the government is about to trample on in the name of "better more affordable health care"? Maybe not if you spew your life all over Tweeter and Facebook?!? Do you know how to balance a budget? Can you balance a budget if you are supporting countless people who can't control their vices? Do you think taxing peoples vices is going to make them stop?? Ha! Maybe look up Prohibition.

Obama and his staff are propagating several Bush era policies you lot screamed about, but I am sure you make a personal point not reading those articles on MSNBC. Look up "Transparency" or "Patriot Act" for a start. How about Gitmo, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? No, now that Obama is in charge, "it just takes time to make things happen!" Hogwash you back peddling two faced tools.

What about listening to his commanders in the field? They say we need more troops! What does his boss Pelosi make him say, "come back to me with other plans with smaller estimates in troop levels". Who the hell does that sound like?? Donald Rumsfeld for God sake!!!!

You want to know why they only want to a small increase?? Because we are going to start supporting more incursions into Pakistan. Isn't this contrary to what you yahoos where whining about during the Bush administration?

On Friday, Obama announced a new plan for the region encompassing Pakistan and Afghanistan. It calls for, among other things, more U.S. troops, greater economic assistance, improved Afghan troop training, and added civilian expertise to defeat the "terrorists who planned and supported the 9/11 attacks."

CNN look it up!

WTF? Why are you not screaming about this? Doesn't seem we are getting out anytime soon? Oh, but we are reducing troop numbers in Iraq. "SO IT"S OK"!?!?!

You say absolutely nothing in your posts but ranting, insulting, gibberish. You keep believing there are only 20% of us left in the country. I smile knowing what is coming for your lot in 2010.

Cookie...

You have got to lay off the bleach...!

Cookie, I was talking about bailouts, not stimulus. Several of you seem to have trouble remembering how exactly things happened, and can't tell the difference. While similar, they're not the same. I never disputed Bush did his own stimulus, did I.

"repubes?" How vulgar and immature, and everything I've come to expect from one of your posts.

You clearly have no ability or interest in discussing things in a rational manner, so welcome to my ignore list. I tried to be civil to you, but you clearly cannot return the favor. Have a nice day.

I can confidently tell you what jobs was created or saved.

CEOs, bankers, loan sharks, call centers for banking, realtors, KBR, Halliburton, Pawnshops, titleloan businesses, repo business, con artists, lobbyists, oh don't forget lazy politicians.........

I cna tell you that there is a lot of roadwork and bridge work going on in Massachusetts, all paid for by the stimulus act. I currently have 4 different detours on a 25 mile commute. Unless these jobs are being done by robots, there must be some jobs created by these projects! Is it enough, I don't think so. But it is certainly more than the last administration did!

Thanks Mike, you're obviously a very educated person so I really appreciate your insight. Just one more question and I really hate to bother you, but what happens to those jobs when they run out of stimulus money?

Still isn't an accurate way to measure jobs. There are too many ways for the count to be subjective.

Ok, PK001. The hope is (and so far, indications are good that it is happening) that the economy recovers eventually. If it does, and cities (and/or companies) business and income is brisk enough to maintain the employment levels they had before the recession, guess what? The jobs remain.

But, all Obama can do is TRY. He is not God, and what he says he will try to do, that's all we can hold him to.

The Repub answer was to do nothing. Just let it all go to sh!t.

Whenever you're ready Mike. I'm really curious what's going to happen to all these saved jobs when the stimulus money dries up.

Mike, I want to remind you that Bush created 7M jobs from 2004 to 2008. Those jobs are now all gone. That's 7M and we are bickering over 650,000 or 30,000 of some other fly poop in the pepper.

Go USA -

So, just like the Republican Party of "No", your answer is not to try?

All we can do is ask cities and companies for their hiring/firing intentions, target the stimulus money, reassess what these cities/companies did afterwards, and count the difference.

Will the number vary? OF COURSE! Will it be 100% accurate? No WAY! But, will it reflect trends or give us useful data? Sure. Every company that I've worked in does that all the time ... track projects, cost, results, reasses as situation changes. You people must do things without a Business Plan.

If you have a better way, state it. So far, I'm the only person here that has posted any solid methodology. The rest of you, all you do is whine, moan and complain, with no answers.

Mike, the economy is not going to pick up until employers start hiring. That's not happening. Less workers equals less taxes equals less money for these tax based positions. Now with the healthcare reform bill and cap and trade coming down the pike, employers are scared. So in the near futurethe economy looks dreadful. You can prop up a few industries/occupations for show, but these saved jobs of which you speak are temporary at best. This is not a dem/repub issue, this is basic economics.

So Michael, you think $200k per job is "smart money"?

Have Liberals lost their minds? Are they incapable of doing basic math?

Demetrix, perhaps you weren't reading ... the projected gain or saving of jobs is through the end of next year.

And, if it was YOU who kept working and supporting your family becaue your job was saved, I doubt you would be so cynical over the loss if even ONE job.

But, WAIT! I forgot something about Republicans. As long as it doesn't impact you, you could give a sh!t, right?

Michael, you are running from the very logical questions. Like the one here by demitrix who did not ask waht you answered - the question is if $200k is money well spent to create a temporary job.

You libs call us dumb. You consider yoursleves intellectuals. Yet, simple logic escapes you. I'm starting to think you're not so bright afterall.

Please do educate us. Tell us how $200k per job is money well spent. Tell us how we can make 650,000 equal 3,000,000. Enlighten we the people the minions this administation scoffs at.

Now I guess I will attack BO as you accused me of doing earlier. BO stinks. And the congress to - on both sides of the aisle:CONGRESSIONAL TERM LIMITS NOW!!!

MICHAEL,

Put me in the not so smart category, too because I can't figure out how the "jobs saved or created" total went from 30K yesterday to 650K today?

Also, I believe the 30K figure was proven to be a big lie and the actual number was significantly less than that!!

You're blinded by the light my friend I hope you see the truck that's headed your way in time!!

Michael Buie: The stimulus package and bailouts were beyond the scope of government. Taking over private corporations and dictating salaries is beyond the scope of government. Attempting to take over 1/6th of the US economy (health care industry) in the name of "reform" is beyond the scope of government. There are many times in life when saying "no" is the appropriate course of action.

Buie - that's a lot "if" calculations - in our area they didn't get saved at all. Not to mention, the road and infrastructure jobs were seasonal workers who will be laid off soon and the biggest example of their supposed jobs were the Signs because nothing much got done since no equipment or very little every showed up.

Republicans aren't so dumb, pal. Seeing is believing. It's the dimwits who say "Obama is going to take care of us"

Michael,

In your cut and paste above you said "WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President-elect Barack Obama said on Saturday an analysis of his stimulus proposals showed that up to 4 million U.S. jobs could be saved or created by 2010, nearly 90 percent of them in the private sector."

It is almost 2010 and it is only 650k.

Michael
Do you really think the economy will right itself? Just because billions of dollars are being wasted to fix head line and statistics short term. Yes common sence does suggest if you can't do the right thing it might be better to do noting.
"If you find yourself in the hole, STOP digging"

Micheal

The statement of "not trying" was poorly thought out. When this stimulus bill was made public, myself and many others said that 1) it was back loaded and wouldn't get the money out for 2 to 3 years. 2) It wasn't going to create the jobs that Obama had promised because the programs being funded were not aimed at the private sector. The majority of the stimulus money spent to date has been on payroll tax cuts and an extra 25.00/week in Unemployment benefits. Congress was in the process of passing another Unemployment Compesation extension, whether or not this will be attached to the stimulus i do not know but will certainly add more murk to the water. A month or so ago the news covered statements that the number of projects that could be completed with stimulus money had increased because the estimated price per project was running 16% lower than expected. The majority of those projects are construction based infrastructure, namely roads and bridges. The fact that the 16% lower cost reflects is that the companies in that sector were indeed hurting for work and were looking to grab what projects they could at cost or loss just to stay in business. This is not creating new jobs, and not really saving old ones because these companies normally lay off in October or November in the northern half of the country due to weather. Another portion of the bill is aimed at infrastructure and matainence in the national park system which was the target of previous budget cuts. This work normally takes place during periods of least use and in many cases gives park workers something to do in bad weather other than playing cards and plowing snow. The economy has been rebounding somewhat this year but without any great effect of the stimulus bill. Unless of course you factor in what it doesn't help and forced private companies to adjust staffing to improve bottom line numbers by reducing overhead. If this is factored in the net gain/loss of jobs attributed to this bill should be in the NEGATIVE numbers not some pie in the sky 650,000 positive range.

Your logic is a little fishy. Who is to say that in 2 months they won't lay off those people anyway? There is no way to measure a "job saved" using your example. What if the decision was based on the passing of a bond or an increase in taxes? How can you say one way or another that the stimulus actually was the reason that jobs were not lost?

So far, all President Obama has done is throw good money after bad. It is time to take a hard look at what will really reduce the deficit and stimulate the economy.

In reference to my above post. In all fairness the stimulus tackles more in scope than what I discussed, but not significantly so to make a meaningful impact on the economy. About the only meaningful thing it will do is help local governments catch up on maintenance issues they have been neglecting for budgetary issues.

"All we can do is ask cities and companies for their hiring/firing intentions, target the stimulus money, reassess what these cities/companies did afterwards, and count the difference."

Ok, the govt. asks business "a" what they are going to do over the next year. Business "a" says they are going to have to fire 100 people. the govt says "ok, here's a million dollars to keep them employed". Business "b" sees that business "a" got 100 million and tells the govt that they are going to have to fire 1000 people (when their original intention is to let go of 100). The govt says "ok, here's 10 million.

Substitute the word "state" or "city" for the word "business" and it's the same thing. Everyone wants their piece of the pie and will adjust their numbers to get it. This is why there would be almost no accuracy whatsoever in saying they saved X amount of jobs.

No one knows if the economy would have righted itself if the govt had done nothing. IT'S NEVER BEEN TRIED!

Boy with this intelligent post we can all have a laugh. Well, maybe not. It is scary that some people can be this blooming stupid. Guess he'd make a great weapon of mass distruction if we could get him in Irans cabinet. Sorry Michael.

I think this is working as planned. Why should we have a lower unemployment rate than other countries? Here, let me tweek something here and there. Let's see I can take over healthcare, that will cost a couple million jobs. Cap N Trade a few more million. We probably need a lot more taxes, that's another million. Ok I think we have it. Now that is Social Justice. Whatcha all think?

Michael said:

One cannot accurately measure "saved" jobs? WHAT?!?

Well, that's because you aren't too smart. Try to follow this very simple logic:

If a city says they have to lay off or fire 600 police officers and 400 sanitation workers, that's 1000 jobs lost.

If an infusion of stimulus money allows the city not to do that, guess what, "not too smart"? 1000 jobs have been saved.

And ... if 1000 jobs had been lost, and subsequently 1000 jobs were created, that is a net gain. Hence, no difference.

Have Republicans and so-called ultra-conservatives lost their minds?! Do their brain cells work?

Apparently not.

Wow. You really shouldn't be insulting other peoples' intelligence while at the same time posting garbage like this.

If you lose $1,000 and then gain $1,000, would you call that a net gain?

Seriously...how can you post crap like this?

michael , if these jobs were actually saved due to the injection of stimuless $ , then what happens next year when the budgets for these saved jobs sees another shortfall ? see that is the problem with this kind of stimuless , instead of the cities or state taking action to remedy thier budgets , they put it off till the following year hoping something else will prop them up . it very rarely happens and the hard facts always reapeer .

Mike, I want to remind you that Bush created 7M jobs from 2004 to 2008. Those jobs are now all gone. That's 7M and we are bickering over 650,000 or 30,000 of some other fly poop in the pepper.

And you want Obama to create that in the few short months he's been in office?

ok mikey...you can copy and paste from your prior post...that's good. now we have to put you in rehab to get you off the koolaid...

starting to improve? in what alternate reality would that be? every economic indicator in reputable business publications shows a disaster in the 4th quarter (given that the 3rd qtr 'growth' was solely due to gummint money). businesses are clamming up waiting for the financial armeggeddon that is obamacare.

have you been fed on a silver spoon your whole life that you cannot see that?

Wild Weasel -

I copied a portion of my post to answer a poster who wouldn't read or otherwise missed what I'd posted further down. You have my permission to just skip over it.

Wow. You really shouldn't be insulting other peoples' intelligence while at the same time posting garbage like this.

If you lose $1,000 and then gain $1,000, would you call that a net gain?

Seriously...how can you post crap like this?

JDS -

1. If you lose $1000, it's gone.

2. I give you $1000 back.

Q. Aren't you $1000 better off than you would have been?

Try to wrap your brain around that simple fact.

No...you would be back at square one, not 1000 dollars ahead.

It's liberal math. Take it out of the left pocket, put it in the right and call it double.

The fact is, Michael Buie, that math doesn't work.

If I lost $1000, someone else probably found it, and they're the only ones making out in your scenario.

Where did you get the $1000 you gave me? Your money? Now you're out $1000. Did you steal it from someone else (taxation)? Then THEY'RE out $1000.

Meanwhile, as andyb said, I'm back to square one with no more money than I had to begin with - but (and here's another liberal tactic) I'm protected from my foolishness for having lost that money in the first place.

The corollary to this is, the cities/counties/states who kept those jobs only via stimulus will have to do one of two things NEXT year to still keep those jobs:

1. Raise taxes.

2. Cut someone elses job.

You can say, if you want, that the economy "should" come back and if there wasn't the enormous amount of government interference in the private sector occurring, if the GD Democrats weren't rebuilding Rome on its still smoldering ashes in regards to the financial crisis - and there will be a Part II financial crisis, it's inevitable - MAYBE business would rebound.

If the 3.5% GDP growth had anything private sector of any significance in it, if the 4th quarter wasn't predicted to be a disaster (holiday shopping is not predicted to go well at all), if unemployment wasn't predicted to go at least another .5% higher.... if reasonable unemployment of 6% or so was expected to be reached before 2015?

Sure. Ain't gonna happen, though. Wish it was.

The liberals have made TOO big a mess of things, with their de-regulation of all the wrong things (Wall Street) and excessive regulation of everything else, the entitlement mentality, the immigration issues, all of it.

We'll get started on that in 2010.

In the meantime? If you believe this report out of the White House, JUST BECAUSE THEY SAY SO, I really feel sorry for you. For two weeks, they were crowing about 30k which turned out to have been badly misreported, possibly by as much as a third. So if you apply that margin of error to the 650k, the number is actually about 430k jobs - less than 15% of the jobs Obama said would be created.

It's failing, and it cost us a fortune.

Firstly I take no joy in rediculing the White House's claims, however when you go through it it's like this:

$878,000,000,000/3,300,000 = $260,000+ per job temporarily saved

$878,000,000,000/650,000 = $1,350,000+ per job temporarily saved

What's next? 300,000? That's $2,926,000+ per job temporarily saved. Yikes!

That's a lot of money to save a job. Is a saved job a good thing, well, maybe not since we all will pay for the job (with interest) the entire time we pay off someone whom loaned us the money for the stimulus. at a mere 2% interest and a term of say 15 years, we'll pay about $1,141,400,000,000 (including $263,400,000,000 in interest. Not worth it to me.

The whole thing sort of smacks of the "stimulus programs"(clunkers, house incentives) which are now adding gains to the GDP this quarter at the loss of the next quarter. that's taking money from Peter to pay Paul. Also, not a good thing.

I work in the finance industry although the company I work for was not fiscally stupid enough to need bailout money. I can easily say that I don't know of anyone I work with that has had any shred of confidence in the bailout programs or the fiscal direction that Obama has taken. And, yes, there are both sides of the political spectrum at my work so that should tell you something. You can sit here and argue the number and the cause of said jobs being created or saved but, as others have asked and not been answered, what happens to the economy and those jobs when the bailout money that has been artifically supporting the economy runs out? The hopes that somehow the economy will be up and running at that point is rather slim. It'll be just another bubble popping, made worse yet again by government interference. Plus, I'll add another question, one I believe is even more important but has been yet to mention. What happens when, in addition to our high unemployment, the government being forced to extend unemployment rights, raising taxes to fund the bailouts, the bailout money running out, and inflation hits? The dollar is just going to weaken more and more because of the government's fiscal irresponsible behavior. If this keeps going then we're going to be a nation in debt, overextended, with a population that is over taxed, and what they have doesn't go as far as it used to. Already, China is diversifying it's portfolio because of concerns over the weakening of the dollar. What does that tell you?

Andyb

The operative words are "would have been" in Michael's post.

Michael Buie

"Have Republicans and so-called ultra-conservatives lost their minds?! Do their brain cells work."

Republicans.....what about the Democrats. I see where you mind is at. Not an open thinker are you.

IT'S BOTH PARTIES! I'm sure glad I'm a free thinker and not an A$$ kisser of one political party.

When the stimulus was first being discussed, a good number of people contacted their representatives and senators to tell them to vote against it. They did not listen. I guess the only beneficiary from the stimulus are those little swamp mice in California and the Florida beauty school students attending classes on grants funded through the stimulus package.

LOL...I guess those are the people that will pay the deficit down?

Don't forget about the turtles in Florida who can now cross the highway in their new tunnel.

Yes I do actually. I have a friend who works construction and said he's doing all sorts of work as a result of the stimulus money. He also said, "it's really stupid, we're doing work that's not even necessary. We're working on road projects in the middle of no where and repairing stuff that's brand new. We all just sit around and laugh about it, but we're not going to turn down the work." That is your government in action folks!!!

I have absolute proof that at least one job was created from the stimulus.

http://timeforpitchforksandtorches.blogspot.com/2009/05/i-owe-president-and-congress-and.html

I haven't heard of one job created under Obama's grand plan other than all his friends he has been hiring.

Kind of like the "clunkers" plan that actually cost the taxpayer $24,000 per car. When you perform real math calculations it is amazing how Obama's numbers have no meaning at all.

The Stimulus Package? Another Government Waste of taxpayers money!!!!!

Immediately after the Stimulus was passed, road construction popped up all over the area of my state where I live.

Who is manning this heavy equipment? Mice or people? Who is selling the equipment, asphalt, uniforms and other construction gear? Who is selling gasoline to the people who are working those jobs and travel to get there? Who is selling the food they eat.

How many families are not homeless, are fed, homes maintained as a result? How many taxes are paid back into city, state and federal government because these people have jobs?

And this is just ONE project in a few surrounding cities where I live. This is happening around the country.

Michael, good points but how many of those people manning the road equipment are new hires? I can't speak for everywhere, but I know for a fact around here they have simply been idled workers reactivated. Something is better than nothing, but to me that's not a true job creation.

I've seen a few examples of positions retained (companies that benefited from stimulus money further down the chain). The only real job creation around here has been as a result of this state spending money out of its warchest that pre-dates stimulus funds by years in tempting companies to move here. It still doesn't offset the loss of jobs by plant closures etc.

Micheal

The problem is that these are not new jobs or even saved jobs. it has created business in a slow time for an industry but if the money would be spent in a meaningful way, like on incentives for job creation and expansion to emerging markets, it would have affected more than one industry. Artificially pumping money into state or anyones coffers is only a temporary fix that need to be followed up with programs that will help revitalize a sagging economy when the money is gone. Obama and his administration has only been pushing programs through that will be detrimental to the economy in at least the short term (3 to 5 years) overall. Cap and trade, Healthcare reform ( in it's current configurations) and immagration reforms will only hit an already staggerring economy again when they take effect. This was a knee jerk, we better do something fast bill, that is not having any true affect other than raising the deficit.

Michael:

Just what is your brain dysfunction? So, the stimulus package saved 1000 government jobs and their associated bloated benefits and pensions. Who do you think pays for that? Think hard, I know I'm asking a lot here, but really try to understand economic logic. Yesterday the number saved or created was 30,000. Today the spin doctors spew out 650,000. That's ludicrous. As was said, stop gulping the Kool-Aid, take down the picture of your Messiah and face the reality of the situation. Public sector jobs saved or "created" further burdens the taxpayers. There are 20 million people paying 75% less taxes becasue they are on unemployment. Can you do simple math or are you having trouble seeing the truth looking through your obama-colored glasses. Think logically for once in your life. And gauging the pulse of the vast majority of posters here, you are by far in the minority.

Michael...they aren't seeing you...you can talk til you're blue in the face.....here in San Antonio we are seeing record job creation and in surrounding cities jobs are blooming. You see Michael, I am talking to you because you'e the only one who does not have blinders on and only want to see the President fail in this forum. I see that you have pointed out that if a job is saved...thats a job NOT lost. if you didnt work yesterday and you have a job today...thats a job created. if you lost your job.....and that company then hires you back. that IS, whether you like it or not....a job created.

chucky = the new minister of propaganda. heil herr goebbels!

uh, my buddy's business in san antonio had to close after 14 years because the place is further in the hole now than a year ago. everywhere i turn, conditions are getting worse because of this so-called 'stimulus' package...which should be called the 'paralysis' package. that's all it has done - paralyze business.

either you're buddy is a bad business man or you're a lie....and I ask you to search and prove me wrong. you see I dont have to call you names. I don't know you...dont care about you, but I know whats true. in Texas thing are getting better and just because you hate the President, that facts is not gonna change. and things are getting better elsewhere.....you can hate all you want, if they show you facts, it wont change.

Thanks, Chucky, for the information and the support.

The haters are more fired up right now because they want to spew hate towards the prez. But, if people like you and I keep silent just because we have FINALLY put someone in office who is fighting or us all for a change, soon the Repubs that mismanaged the country for the past eight years will be fooling dim-witted peple again who believe their hype.

Sometimes we have to speak out against lunacy.

But, you are right. If after spelling it out in the simplest terms, they don't want to get it, it is what it is. Just, hopefully, others who read their spin will look at staight-forward, simple answers and not buy their propaganda.

This is NOT about hate twords the prez..

He has not done anything for us to give him credit for.

The Simplest of terms, as you put it, are nothing more then leftist spins.

Above you commented about how fire, police and city workers jobs were saved with the stim program.. Point blank this CANNOT happen. Citys are prevented from using Stim money to close budget shortcommings from tax revenues falling short of predicted numbers. Payroll IS part of the budget..

Its part of the rules when you accept the money.

Your you lose 1000 dollars and then the gvmnt gives you 1000 dollars so you have a net gain is about as crazy as saying 1+1 = 4. You do not gain anything, you break even.

You have evaded the question over and over again in this Vine. What happens when the Stim money well has dried up?

The blind faith that you put in Gvmnt is commical.

You talk about straight forward, simple answers and not to buy their propaganda.. HELLLOOO the entire 650,000 article is propaganda at its finest.

I am in San Antonio, the construction industry hasn't been this slow in 30 years and it' doesn't look like it's getting better any time soon, as a matter of fact, I will be laying more people off soon. Every single supplier, sub contractor, and general contractor I have talked to in the past month all have the same story.

You see what you want to see, and hear what you want to hear.

Michael/Chucky - answer the question.

What happens when the stimulus money dries up?

And you don't get to say, well, the GDP grew by 3.5%, the economy is coming back and so will the tax receipts. Because that 3.5% is virtually all GOVERNMENT spending. At least half of it was directly from C4C, that cost the American taxpayer $24,000 per car. Tax receipts can't come back until jobs come back, REAL jobs tha last longer than 4 weeks - and they're not. And companies aren't hiring, because of the spectors of Health Scare and Crap & Tax hanging over their heads.

The American people did not want this. Our money is taken from us per force from every paycheck, and when we said, don't spend our money on this? They did it anyway. Now we're screwed, because we knew - either instinctively because spending money when you're BROKE makes no sense or because people who researched this saw, it was not a well designed plan. We're screwed because part of us wanted it to work, even though we knew it wouldn't.

I want to see a recovery, I want to hear positive things....

How do you know? Support your "facts"

Cassandra Dear? You not only SOUND SEXIST, you ARE SEXIST. Give up YOUR JOB and get back to us...............tell us then what it's like for you dear???

Michelle's personal attendents all qualify as new jobs created by the administration. That's almost halfway to the target of the stimulus in and of itself! Go Michelle!

Then your answer is the give it back to the Bush/Cheney's of the world?

God forbid ...

Read the text, NO, not to them, or to Obama, or Kennedy, or Rush, or any of them. For once I want to just pluck out a farmer from the Midwest and stick them in Iowa's seat, and take a urban kid from NYC and place them in New Yorks seat. Why again do we need them in the first place, they are lazy, waste a whole bunch of tax payers dollars and are way more corrupt than they should be. ALL of our politicians are clueless. <---Period.

So what will the IA farmer, or the NYC kid do???????????????? Yo, already!!

Some of us are changing things and do not need BO or want him involved....just our very best tax attorneys so we can protect for our Family and Friends our wealth...and not share wil a buch of people we do not even know!

GREAT private attorneys are worth ir as they always save you more than they costs....my Familys cost to date for "planning" has been $385,000....but our experts have legally (and been blessed by IRS Rulings) saved us millions and millions...not ganna share except with Family and our Friends....not even the Univeral Coverage can get to us!

rob,

i guess you could say that some people are whining.i guess you could also say that some people never see anything wrong with president obama's policies.who is worse?the ones who "whine" about the president's policies because they question the validity or the people who never question anything the president does and blindly follow?i know from your post that you question some things that former president bush did.what is the difference?

Rob

I am pointing out facts that are the reality of what the stimulus is doing in our country. I would like to see the tax dollars taken from my pocket each paycheck go to benefit everyone by stimulating the whole economy not just propping up state and local governments and bailing out a small sector. The bill was flawed from the beginning, it needed a bit more work and debate before it was rammed through ( along party lines I might add) and reported as the saviour for ur economy. The jobless rate has increased beyound the 8% figure they hoped would be the plateau, and continues to rise. The administration always reports not what the actual Unemployment figure has reached they only keep saying that new claims are down putting a positive spin on things. When they start reporting that the near 10% has gone down to 8% and that the GDP is climing and that the trade imbalance has fallen the I'll believe that economy is in full recovery mode and on it's way to another period of sustained growth.

And what are you doing? Whining about the whiners.

Thats 600,000 people paying taxes

Chucky,

You forget that 1/2 of them will be Tax cheats like the rest of Obamas administration. so only 300,000 of them will actually pay taxes

The other 300,000 will be Gov't employees and get paid by our taxes

Yeah it all goes to the overpaid freaks in Congress, etc. They're so out of touch with life because they don't know what it's like to live from paycheck to paycheck. Their mindsets are so scary. Their ideas are so radical it is scary.

When all of my family members who have lost jobs have new ones--then the recession/depresson will be over. When I have a full-time permanent position that pays more than $2.50 an hour--then the recession/depression will be over. Barry lies.

My husband lost his job in May. Nothing out there - even the grocery stores aren't hiring. Things don't look good out here in flyover land.....Take care, everyone.

and THE CHECKS IN THE MAIL!!!! Thank you BO and company. Soup lines here we come, except for the politicians, both sides.

What is all the fuss about? Of course the NUMBERS are CORRECT! Ask the 51% of the population who voted for Obama. This is another day to celebrate the VICTORY and the CHANGE the 51% asked for. Great day!!

And you a real comedian!

OBAMA YOU LIE!!!!!!!!

AP IMPACT: Stimulus jobs overstated by thousands

By BRETT J. BLACKLEDGE and MATT APUZZO – 14 hours ago

WASHINGTON — A Colorado company said it created 4,231 jobs with the help of President Barack Obama's economic recovery plan. The real number: fewer than 1,000.

A child care center in Florida said it saved 129 jobs with the help of stimulus money. Instead, it gave pay raises to its existing employees.

Elsewhere in the U.S., some jobs credited to the stimulus program were counted two, three, four or even more times.

The government has overstated by thousands the number of jobs it has created or saved with federal contracts under the president's $787 billion recovery program, according to an Associated Press review of data released in the program's first progress report.

The discrepancy raises questions about the reliability of a key benchmark the administration uses to gauge the success of the stimulus. The errors could be magnified Friday when a much larger round of reports is released. It is expected to show hundreds of thousands of jobs repairing public housing, building schools, repaving highways and keeping teachers on local payrolls.

The White House seized on an initial report from a government oversight board weeks ago that claimed federal contracts awarded to businesses under the recovery plan already had helped pay for more than 30,000 jobs. The administration said the number was evidence that the stimulus program had exceeded early expectations toward reaching the president's promise of creating or saving 3.5 million jobs by the end of next year.

But the 30,000 figure is overstated by thousands — at the very least by nearly 5,000, or one in six, based on AP's limited review of some of the contracts — because some federal agencies and recipients of the money provided incorrect job counts. The review found some counts were more than 10 times as high as the actual number of jobs; some jobs were credited to stimulus spending when, in fact, none were produced.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jMNoef6xDenBbHWO0Im6rIjDmAgAD9BKIN400

In my book they call that FRAUD!!!

Tell it to those who can support their families today because their job was saved. Or because they found a job.

Obama can't elevate the economy to where it was overnight. Look how long it took to get us in this mess. It takes a short time to tear down a house; how long does it take to rebuild it?

But, hey. I'm seeing that the whole point of these posts are not about our country getting back on it's feet. It's just a diatribe against our President and what he is doing to try to help us.

Michael-

Wow man....Take off the blinders.

MICHAEL, Loyalty is commendable doggedness merely demostrates an inability, to reason.

michael..it take a while to get to this point, and the democraps controlled the congress for the last 3 years...is this long enough?

And how the hell can you count a non-profit job?

The WH moron said that "we didnt say all jobs would be permanent or for profit, just that they were created"