Agreed--which is why capitalism works so well--those who succeed survive and thrive. Those who don't wither and die. What is so wrong with letting that concept work?

Gee! guess what? Could this be another indication of why hundreds of thousand of manufacturing jobs went over seas? For peanuts? Profits fine, bonuses fine, jobs (well screw you)?

Let the "brain drain" go over seas and pay the tax rates there. Let them try to find lucrutive contracts coming back to the US (which they screwed in the first place). Dump them lock, stock and barrell.

Exactly, nyman! If they are the most talented, it seems like their firms wouldn't have needed bailout money. And, if they were most talented, they would have (as Goldman Sachs has) paid back their little loan. Corporate greed is not a good reason to keep these guys around. Let them leave and wreck another company (preferably one without American business).

OK shrekk (the politician from Washington). The economy is crashing anyway. If they had let them fail we'd be on our way to a true recovery right now. Instead our dollar is in the crapper, gas is back up to $3/gallon, risen $1 in the last month. Unemployment is at a true over 20% going into the holiday season. And they are calling this a recovery.

Wait until end of this month or early next when wall street takes their profits in the stock market and it collapses again for the last time.

What exactly is your definition of economic collapse?

Let me get this straight, without the Governments help they would all be bankrupt and out of work and people are worried if they cut their pay they will go elsewhere ? Maybe we should throw them a parade for running their companies into the ground as well.

nyman Exactly ! These losers led the corporations and the American economy into the toilet and now want us to think that they are soo good that they cannot be replaced ! There are plenty of highly qualified people available who would take their jobs for less than 10% of what they get paid and do a better job ! If they don't want the pay, tell them to take a hike. Maybe if they had not destroyed their companies they would not have had to go to the taxpayer begging to get bailed out ! If they are so qualified and in demand, they should have no problem getting ten million plus perks from the companies that did not have to go begging !

We are a sad country these days.

I served in the first Iraq war. I remember clearly about trickle down and how Reagon told all the sheeple that giving money to the rich helps the economy.

Now here we are. In an inflationary bubble with the dollar. Guess what everyone. If the dollar is worthless then its previous value then anything that is valued in dollars will have its cost increase.

Oil is pegged to the dollar.

Every company in our stock market is pegged to the dollar.

Pork. Beef. Orange Juice. Bread. Xbox360, Mustang Shelby.

All pegged to the dollar.

But dont worry. Obama will peg our currency to the Euro and we will call it the globalization of our currency.

I think we are all doomed to watch the end of this great country. It used to be a laughable fiction to consider the California Union, The Westcoast Pac, Southeastern coalition..... Wait until our economy resembles those in Africa. Wait until we all carry million dollar bills and that only replaces the $10.

I advise all of my investors to purchase guns and bullets. Look at the 52 week chart of Smith and Wesson. Very amazing!!!

Seeing as how there was very little brains to drain to begin with, that most likely won't be an issue. You might get a massive ego and enormous greed drain, however.

I agree with Nyman. Who cares if they leave? They ran the companies into the ground so they need government bailout. Most people who FAIL at their jobs are fired. Leave. Maybe they can find someone willing to take less money who can actually put forth a successful turnaround strategy.

Did they answer this question: How much worse off would the companies be if they actually did a decent job in the first place?????

This was an argument used years ago - nothing happened - CEO's were still paid large bonuses and salaries. The only brain drain I see is mine as I watch my 401k being depleted because some moron risked everything without creating some kind of fail-safe mechanism. I lose everything and have to worry about not having Christmas this year while the CEO's of major companies get fired and still have enough left in the back to buy three more houses, private jet and are able to site see 5000 miles away. It's a free market society alright - free to commit financial chaos and get away with it.

What brains; the ones who led this nation into bankruptcy, the ones who gambled away the retirement funds of Americans, the ones who had to go begging to the Treasury and federal reserve for a 7.5 trillion bailout. Hell I could have hired a grammar school dropout with more business sense.

If being an infinitely greedy egotistical bad spawn pig means you have a brain maybe it is time to drain the SOBs

There isn't going to be a brain drain. Just because you pay someone $100 million a year doesn't mean they're the best at what they do. They're just the best paid. Other people will step in and not run the companies into the ground.

Oh, please, brain drain my foot! Let me tell ya something about the modern day work place, just because you make a bunch of dough doesn't mean squat as to how much talent you have. For every ridiculously overpaid overrated crackhead of a CEO out there is a hundred or so real wizards who can do exactly what they do and are willing to do it at a fraction of what these knuckleheads do it, we need to replace Wall Street with the Silicon Valley.

Some of these articles are soooo transparent!!!! Nice try, right!

MillerLiteman, the concern one year ago was that the flow of money in the economy was about to stall. Obviously you've forgotten that already, but it would have affected everyone from farmers and small businesses to multinational corporations. As a result of the bailout we barely avoided that situation, although I think the money would have been better spent as government-backed loan restructuring rather than uncontrolled gifts to large corporations (trickle up rather than trickle down). Regardless, we avoided another great depression, and the stock market is in the 10K range again. The economy isn't great (I run a very small business), but it would have been a lot worse in the US and globally had action not been taken, and the large banks allowed to fail. I just disagree with the particulars of the action taken, and the complete lack of financial control under Bush.

This is a separate issue from CEO compensation, where I would support a rule limiting such compensation to some factor of the lowest-paid employee (ie, 100x instead of 1000x). Further, CEO compensation boards should be directly appointed by the shareholders, not the CEOs themselves, and stock options should be long term only, in order for a CEO to have the proper incentive. A different means of control/incentive would be to reestablish the highly progressive tax rates we had during the Eisenhower administration, where excessive compensation was taxed at a prohibitive rate.

The financial companies where it started. I'm just hoping that these limits are enacted if not the way this article said, even better then the article has mentioned. Alright what angle am I coming from do you ever get this little voice in the back of your head even candid at times, oh yeah the little voice would say the banks employee's out loud, we are going to receive incentives, do you hear this in the back of your mind, I sure that you do? I really don't show it very well but I'm struggling with my banks, and to hear that these guys are closing at record braking numbers is actually great news what good mourgagae payment hasn't got any incentives just the run around to financial depos for now because that way you can't even get your hands on anything that government thought the banks, Leander's, and financial institutions from asking for balling out the mid-classes of people. I can't even ask for a paper return envelope to make payments easy-er buy just having the statements in my hand, oh no to hear one of these devils has been ordered to close is great news, just making the collection agency which has my loans look all the more stupid. These banks are light as a feathers just hope when the winds blows, and the waves start beating against them no more tax dollars go into bailing out anyone they haven't begun to start helping the home owners in America.

"not only the highest-paid but also considered among the most talented and productive. And competitors outside the restrictions are likely to woo them, recruiters and compensation expects say.

Losses like that could be devastating to the very companies the government spent so much money to save.

Well, duh.

A politician, using a ghostwriter, can write a book and get $5 Million, but a critical top producer will have his pay cut 90%?

Sounds like politics before reason to me, but then you did ask for "Change you can believe in".

"Feinberg announced Thursday that he has ordered seven companies that have received billions of dollars in taxpayer money to slash the base salaries of their top executives by an average of 90 percent and cut total compensation — cash, stock and perks — in half."

Let's see now. A "Czar" who was neither vetted to determine his qualifications, nor subjected to the Advise and Consent" of the Senate gets to decide on major issues that impact the running of our government as well as major parts of our economy? It's a good thing that Obama's "Green Czar", Van Jones was ousted over being a self-avowed Communist and claiming that 9/11 was a U S government plot. Who knows what HE would have ordered. If this "pay czar" has this much authority, I wonder what the other 30+ "Czars" are authorized to do, and what their qualifications are.

Who's running the government???????

Whatever happened to the checks and balances that were built into the Constitution?

Oh yes, I forgot - You wanted "Change you can believe in".

If you borrow money from a shark, you better pay it back as agreed or face the consequences! If you sell your soul to the devil, guess where you will end up! My concern is that goverment and the czars are out of control.

Who will Obama replace these people with? Know anybody in Chicago?!!

these socalled brains are the ones who got the country into this mess. pulling stunts that should not have been done. now they will only repeat the foolishness. let them go

Wall Street is full of self serving egotists whose narcisism is destroying the country. Their destruction of the financial markets has weakened this countries ability to defend itself from threats abroad. Guns and bullets are not the weapons of choice for our adversaries trying to bring our country to its knees. Perhaps Khruschev was ahead of his time when he predicted the Soviet Union would not need to invade the US to emerge as a victor in the Cold War---he proclaimed we would implode from within and we would be ripe for the pickin'. Not a direct quote but paraphrased with the meaning he intended. Bonuses and excessive pay for poor performance is weakening pension funds, diluting shareholder earnings, and their gambles are destroying our economy. A huge transfer of wealth from common people to Wall Street is taking place before our eyes that is tantamount to stealing. A shakedown of the American taxpayer from greedy financiers where there accumulation of extreme wealth is more important than the solvency of our nation.

RoyWilson, your previous Prez had many many policy makers in similar positions with even greater reins of power. Do the names Wolfowitz or Rove ring a bell? They not only initiated the expenditure of a TRILLION dollars in Iraq, but also cost a few thousand lives while they were at it. Please think before you type.

A politician, using a ghostwriter, can write a book and get $5 Million, but a critical top producer will have his pay cut 90%?

Roy, you shouldn't crack on Palin.  It's not her fault she can't write. 

The only change I would believe in is one that would require a time machine to go back to 2003.  Then we could not invade Iraq for no reason, and use the trillion dollars we've wasted there to improve our country.    

So let me get this straight. You say "Yea stick it to them for making so much money and running the economy into the ground!" Yet our polititians make how much a year to do what?
Also, where is the shouts for not just letting them fail? The Government stepped in, bailed them out, so no failure. They'd all be out of a job and then you'd be happy. What is going to happen when the Government gives you Health Care? That's my taxes going to you, so I should be mad if you make "risky" decisions like smoking, or sky diving, or riding a motorcycle. I will demand YOU compensate for my loss by paying a charge (or a payback to the system) in MORE TAXES. And the Gov will say "Oh yea we have the right to control YOU now! Ha ha ha ha ha..."

It just struck me that all of us are down here arguing about the rich getting richer, while we can't afford health care, our kids' education, or our own retirement. Does this strike anyone else as wrong? I don't want a socialist government, but we have socialist programs NOW! What's wrong with one more that actually helps the people who PRODUCE in our economy? If the worker is HEALTHY, they can produce more. I know I'm naive, but my daughter can't work because of chronic gall bladder disease, that could be helped with a simple surgery she could get if she had insurance. No insurance, no surgery. No income. See a pattern here? She cannot be productive while she is ill. Tell me how it makes sense for her to be uninsurable.

So the concern expressed is that if we cut the bonuses and outrageous salaries that their will be a "brain drain".

Do we really want to keep the geniuses around that helped create the financial meltdown in the first place??

What qualities do these self-serving, egotistical, shortsighted idiots possess that makes us think that they will do any different in the future than they have done in the past?

I Guess my question is...How many of these small banks managers arms just shriveled up into nubs

None of these banks, none of these car companies, none of these states, should have been given 1 dime of tax payer money...and yes it would have been messy, but lessons would have been learned and we would not be having this discussion. The vast majority of why our crash occured was because of decisions made by our Governments over the last 70 years...not buy these Administration scapegoats

and yes, If my boss came in and told me today, that everyone is taking a 90% pay cut because Corporate HQ (washington) spent all the companies funds on a christmas party...I would be gone in a heart beat

And I find it completely asinine that Washington can spend us all down the river and have the ability to open their mouths about anyone, anywhere, doing anything...And I am completely disappointed with everyone here on newsvine that refuses to see two-faced for two-faced

If it was capitalism that allowed this scum to rise to the top of our financial system, then capitalism is a failed system. It certainly was not a free market, since the free market has not existed since at least the turn of the century. I say let the basturds go, and take away the stranglehold they have on our economy. Everyone else loses, but they still win. B.S..

Besides, if they take their talents someplace else, where would they go. Who would want them. Do you think China wants them? They are doing just fine right now. They don't need these guys to come in and ruin it!

Frankly, I'm willing to pull the plug and see what happens. I think those guys are in for a rude awakening as to what they're really worth when they have to compete for jobs.

The article says that these companies' competitors may try to woo away this talent. Why would they want to hire the same people who ran these companies into government receivership? Back in the 80s these companies would have been allowed to fail and were then parceled off to their less corrupt competitors. Would be best for everyone if shareholders started voting out these boards that reward losses and closing plants. I applaud the President here but it is a little bit too late.

Capitalism is a failed system. Banks, wall street, insurance companies, and Corporations are to blame for it. Making health care for profit along with jail systems for profit only adds to the destruction of the free market system.

But of course who cares right? As long as they have their Nikes to wear made from slave labor in China. Corporations that outsource jobs to other countries should be charged for treason, deported to live in the country that they have sent their factories to. How unamerican are these types of companies, that their profit is worth more than the well being of AMERICANS.

A "brain drain"? It's actually a "idiot"drain". These idiots caused the worst economic crisis since the great depression and we fear a brain drain if we don't pay them tens of millions of dollars. Who wrote this article? Someone who supports the corporate banking elite! The banking industry needs to get back to the basics of conservative banking with a reasonable pay structure. If current banking executives aren't interested...get rid of them!!!

Brain drain? These are business executives we are talking about? These are the guys who tell us to work faster, but be safe, nothing is impossible, give 110%, ...

Yeah, real smart guys.

I say, don't let the door hitcha on the way out tha door!

These executives darn near ran their companies into the ground, and I am suppose to care that they are feeling under appreciated? Big freakin' deal!

Bye! So long! Hope you land somewhere and can keep up with your mortgage! In the meantime, there are many very bright young and middle aged men and women who can and will do a far better job...for less money!

Ha, ha. Please leave!!!

Lets see, we will have a brain drain from institutions that requested and needed government bailout money to stop the collapse of these institutions and the collapse of the world economy? so now we have to allow even more greed money to keep these "brains" to motivate them to repair the damage they caused ?.

Financial institutions around the world who did not cause a worldwide recession (possibly depression) and are extremely profitable and successful can find "brains" to run their institution without ridicules overpayment in salaries and bonus's, maybe we are missing something ? the fact that their compensation is tied to long term success is being called government interference ? government interference to help stabilize the economy and try and not allow the continued fraud and embezzlement of the American market systems is being called socialism ?

Try telling that to Mrs Bore who tried in 1998 to regulate the commodities and derivatives and as told if she regulated the commodities markets it would cause a world wide recession ? really, the fact that we didn't has caused a world wide recession, So come again with these nonsensical arguments and statements and realize how absolutely absurd these arguments are, We won't have a brain drain , we will have a greed drain and that is all good for America.

This is a perfect example of if you tell a lie long enough it will eventually become truth. Who are these people that keep telling us that these executives are talented and productive, especially in light of the fact that several were bailed out by the taxpayers to keep them from failing.

I've never witnessed such blatant propaganda by the business community in my life. It's like People magazine's selections for sexiest man and woman alive that comes out each year, says who? If there's anything that life has taught me in my 50 years of living it, is that nobody is irreplacable. I hope all of them leave the country tomorrow, we need new leadership with fresh ideas in this country like never before. Please end the status quo in this country, it's slowly destroying us!

I don't think there has ever been a reliable assessment of the value that a CEO brings to a large company. We've seen many examples where a company is going in the toilet while exec compenation is riding high. And, in a large company, it's no one-person show -- a CEO with the good fortune (many times it is just plain luck) a hiring or having a few key deputies can often appear "great" even if they're sleeping through the job. Many CEOs are very accomplished in ensuring that their work is stratospherically compensated, while being much less interested in the circumstances and pay for those people that really operate the company and make the products. Having a CEO who was a little less interested in their own pay and more interested in the company might have some benefits, don't you think?

Compensation limits raise fears of brain drain? HaHaha!

Who writes this s___t? Yeah, we'll really be up s__— creek if we lose all those financial "geniuses" that came up with securities based on sub-prime loans and the other geniuses who gave those securities triple A ratings.

PLEASE, DRAIN THOSE BRAINS MORE AND FASTER!

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration.

October 22, 2009

The Super Rich are Laughing

The US as Failed State

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

The US has every characteristic of a failed state.

The US government’s current operating budget is dependent on foreign financing and money creation.

Too politically weak to be able to advance its interests through diplomacy, the US relies on terrorism and military aggression.

Costs are out of control, and priorities are skewed in the interest of rich organized interest groups at the expense of the vast majority of citizens. For example, war at all cost, which enriches the armaments industry, the officer corps and the financial firms that handle the war’s financing, takes precedence over the needs of American citizens. There is no money to provide the uninsured with health care, but Pentagon officials have told the Defense Appropriations Subcommittee in the House that every gallon of gasoline delivered to US troops in Afghanistan costs American taxpayers $400.

“It is a number that we were not aware of and it is worrisome,” said Rep. John Murtha, chairman of the subcommittee.

According to reports, the US Marines in Afghanistan use 800,000 gallons of gasoline per day. At $400 per gallon, that comes to a $320,000,000 daily fuel bill for the Marines alone. Only a country totally out of control would squander resources in this way.

While the US government squanders $400 per gallon of gasoline in order to kill women and children in Afghanistan, many millions of Americans have lost their jobs and their homes and are experiencing the kind of misery that is the daily life of poor third world peoples. Americans are living in their cars and in public parks. America’s cities, towns, and states are suffering from the costs of economic dislocations and the reduction in tax revenues from the economy’s decline. Yet, Obama has sent more troops to Afghanistan, a country half way around the world that is not a threat to America.

It costs $750,000 per year for each soldier we have in Afghanistan. The soldiers, who are at risk of life and limb, are paid a pittance, but all of the privatized services to the military are rolling in excess profits. One of the great frauds perpetuated on the American people was the privatization of services that the US military traditionally performed for itself. “Our” elected leaders could not resist any opportunity to create at taxpayers’ expense private wealth that could be recycled to politicians in campaign contributions.

Republicans and Democrats on the take from the private insurance companies maintain that the US cannot afford to provide Americans with health care and that cuts must be made even in Social Security and Medicare. So how can the US afford bankrupting wars, much less totally pointless wars that serve no American interest?

The enormous scale of foreign borrowing and money creation necessary to finance Washington’s wars are sending the dollar to historic lows. The dollar has even experienced large declines relative to currencies of third world countries such as Botswana and Brazil. The decline in the dollar’s value reduces the purchasing power of Americans’ already declining incomes.

Despite the lowest level of housing starts in 64 years, the US housing market is flooded with unsold homes, and financial institutions have a huge and rising inventory of foreclosed homes not yet on the market.

Industrial production has collapsed to the level of 1999, wiping out a decade of growth in industrial output.

The enormous bank reserves created by the Federal Reserve are not finding their way into the economy. Instead, the banks are hoarding the reserves as insurance against the fraudulent derivatives that they purchased from the gangster Wall Street investment banks.

The regulatory agencies have been corrupted by private interests. Frontline reports that Alan Greenspan, Robert Rubin, and Larry Summers blocked Brooksley Born, the head of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission from regulating derivatives. President Obama rewarded Larry Summers for his idiocy by appointing him Director of the National Economic Council. What this means is that profits for Wall Street will continue to be leeched from the diminishing blood supply of the American economy.

An unmistakable sign of third world despotism is a police force that sees the pubic as the enemy. Thanks to the federal government, our local police forces are now militarized and imbued with hostile attitudes toward the public. SWAT teams have proliferated, and even small towns now have police forces with the firepower of US Special Forces. Summons are increasingly delivered by SWAT teams that tyrannize citizens with broken down doors, a $400 or $500 repair born by the tyrannized resident. Recently a mayor and his family were the recipients of incompetence by the town’s local SWAT team, which mistakenly wrecked the mayor’s home, terrorized his family, and killed the family’s two friendly Labrador dogs.

If a town’s mayor can be treated in this way, what do you think is the fate of the poor white or black? Or the idealistic student who protests his government’s inhumanity?

In any failed state, the greatest threat to the population comes from the government and the police. That is certainly the situation today in the USA. Americans have no greater enemy than their own government. Washington is controlled by interest groups that enrich themselves at the expense of the American people.

The one percent that comprise the superrich are laughing as they say, “let them eat cake.”

What the heck are some of you talking about????

First off only those companies that haven't paid back are being affected. The top people will still be making more a year than most people get a 30 year loan for to buy a house. Boo-Hoo they now only make 200,000.00 a year until they get the company back on it's own feet and repay the money they needed our tax dollars for to keep them a-float.

Ever stop to think that if AIG hadn't used the TARP to pay out those bonuses they might have cleared there books and wouldn't be affected by this?

If anything the 200,000.00 they can still get is to high as long as there still using my money. They drove the company into the ground and they need to pay for it. Someone stealing pens from work gets fired and some of you are crying about a salary cap when these jerks stole millions.

Brain drain to work where? Do these folks really feel that some company abroad is going to take on people who helped to flatten their company, the global economy and the US economy in particular? LOL

These folks have an elevated opinion of themselves and their abilities that is not bourne out by positive performance/fact as far as one can see.

Do these folks believe that other companies overseas are going to look at them positively and pay them at the level of compensation that they enjoy in this country, because of their ability to tie the hands of the shareholders in this country so that these share holders have no say in their compensation package?

Do these folks realize that in other countries abroad that the companies that took monies from their govt are in effect nationalized for the duration? (think those countries govt play nice?) LOL

Perhaps they should go work in like China, where no doubt they would have been put in prison if they had run a company in China into the ground and bring that country's economy crashing like they did here. LOL

Do they think that these other countries do not have their own pool of braniacs ie other competent folks in their own countries that they can hire, and their own screwups to deal with already so why would they want the ones from this country?

Business schools are churning out every year and no doubt there are many folks out there that are looking for an opportunity to show what they can do.

Additionally due to the downturn in the economy there are many experienced folks from other companies who have had to downsize their management teams, thus these folks are now looking for a job and no doubt would be happy to take the new salary scale imo. Beats being unemployed, uninsured and unable to pay ones bills like a mortgage etc.

Most importantly is the fact there has to be a brain in the first place, for there to be a brain drain. LOL

Got to give it these folks though, they surely can shovel and sell BS with straight face. Like the saying goes fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Perhaps they should try that brain drain crap on folks who are not looking at their former 401ks and IRAs etc and their own pitifully poor and stagnant pay cheques (if they still have a job). I am sure there are plenty of people who would be happy to take the $42 thousand dollars per month.

Yes, capitalism worked really great, created that good old greed and now look at the mess we are in, I hope they all quit at least maybe there will competent people that will replace them, let them see how unemployment works, and those that disagree I hope you all lose your jobs too, it's a lack of regulation that caused this too happen, I hope they regulate the sh_t out of everything, then you all can whine somemore......

The brain drain excuse is lame. There are many highly skilled and highly trained executives out there just waiting to get a chance to get to the top. Saying that less pay (not low wages but less pay than those multi-million dollar compensation packages) would cause the best talent to migrate is simply hog wash. There are literally thousands of executives vying for the limited executive positions at the top. Competition should exist even at the top where there are thousands waiting to get a chance to prove their skill-sets. The problem being that high-level executives belong to a buddy system and is not necesarily chosen for their abilities rather then who they know.

"The 175 executives targeted by "pay czar" Kenneth Feinberg are not only the highest-paid but also considered among the most talented and productive."

Ummm, we're talking about the companies that got bailed out, right? The ones that failed under these guy's leadership? And they're the most talented and productive? I'm not feeling so good.

Either that, or Feinberg has his own hit list of people he doesn't like.

There is a fully able workforce of people who are actually qualified for these jobs and more in touch with reality. And they would be willing to do the work for 1/10 or less of what these jokers are paid.

The world needs to stop making excuses for these idiots who can't do it right and walk away with golden parachutes. They all sit on each other's board, and reward each other for bad behavior. As a comparison, the CEO of the soon-to-be-world's largest car company, Volkswagen, was paid only 2.6M Euros last year. Brain drain... only for those who believe this B.S. article.

HARHARHAR.....bahahahahahahahaha.....ROTFLMAO

What Brains????!!!! Nuthin' to drain here except excrement from the top!

Brain drain? Give me a f****g break! These are the incompetent clowns who drove their companies, along with the entire US economy, into the ground.

You conservatards want to let capitalism work? OK. Dump these goofs and hire somebody competent, who will succeed by using their energy, talent, and creative vision to turn these companies into dynamic, profitable entities, instead of taking government welfare for corporations. I'm sure there are plenty of qualified, hungry young budding CEOs who would be willing to do it at, say, $500K a year. That's a fair wage.

You want free enterprise? OK. No more subsidies, no more tax breaks, no more lobbying. Pull yourselves up by your OWN bootstraps, and stop sucking the blood of the American taxpayers to finance your indulgent lifestyles, while you drain the whole countries' capital to your offshore accounts.

You guys are unbelievable.

Having worked for one of these banks, these guys are not that bright, and more important, if they where, why did we have the financial melt-down?

The pay these people received was insane, and if there were excess profits, it should have gone to the stock holders or to expanding the firm.

Agreed. Had we allowed these firms to fail many would have been unemployed which was the negative out of this situation. However, if these guys at the top were so bright then how did we get into this mess in the first place?

Greed! All they cared about was making the buck and enjoying it. Not once was any thought placed on what this would do to the average american. Let them fail and be unemployed like main street america!

Do your banking with your local bank and close your accounts with the big banks.

If these executives had brains, their financial institutions would not now be taking bailout funds from the taxpayers. They should all leave. Good riddance.

Easy up the attack on the 'Conservatives'. If you had an inkling of what 'Conservative' ideology is you'd understand that these companies would have been allowed to fail; quite frankly, the government wouldn't have been so big to have been able to bail out these incompetents to begin with. This isn't 'Capitalism', it's 'Socialism.'

I say, Cap the Hell out of these idiots. You want MY tax money to keep your incompetencey steaming along then expect a 99% pay reduction, No Bonuses, a sale of their personal assets, and a sincere 'Thank You' to the American Taxpayers (who wouldn't have agreed to it anyway) every Friday night from ALL the CEO's who took this 'bailout' money.

Oh, a BIG A$$ apology would also be nice....

Want to bet that there will be loopholes a plenty? Lets see- no perks/bonus so base pay goes up? or - who knows what will happen. Congress really is not interested in real change- they just want to talk a game and have us believe it while they sit in comfy chairs discussing the plight of the poor worker whom they have no idea about other than a fantasyland concept.

#1.53: "Congress really is not interested in real change- they just want to talk a game and have us believe it while they sit in comfy chairs discussing the plight of the poor worker whom they have no idea about other than a fantasyland concept."

Sadly, you are probably correct, all things considered. I'd like to think differently, but our elected @!$%#s on Easy Street don't give a damn about us, until they need our votes.

I hate politicians. I really do (with, maybe, a handful of exceptions).

While I have to agree with 1.53 and 1.54 I'm hoping the jerks quit before they can find a loop hole to increase their paychecks. I know it's the Lawyers that will find any holes while the people affected sit on their so called brains in a plush office chair crying about not being able to buy a new jet this year (last years model is just so out of style now and they just have to keep up with the Joane's....oh aren't the Joane's the ones using our money to pay for 2,000.00 a night hotel room vacations while they fire more people that only make 2,000.00 a month?).

It sounds like we're all on the same page. It's difficult for me to conceive, let alone believe, that this is how the tax payers are rewarded . . . . . these CEOs go on to live lifestyles of the rich and famous after not only destroying America's economy, but the world's economy. . . . . while the average Joe Blow is barely making ends meet or not making ends meet at all. Where does the madness end? And all we can do is bend over and say "no lubricant please". Ridiculous

Obama should've let those banks fail. Then none of those greasy fingered scumbags on wallstreet would be able to find a job today!

There is definitely a cleansing effect that needs to happen by letting broke companies fail. I think almost all of American was against the bailouts, but Congress went for it anyway.

brain drain???

these are the people who bankrupted their company and threatened the entire economy and you are worrying that they will be hired away.

If I owned stock in any company that hired these guys I would sell out before they got a shot at my money

Does not say much about the American Talent pool if these are truly the best and the brightest. Besides what else are these "brains" going to do, start up a plumbing company. This is just BS being pushed to make the new regulations less restrictive. Put the laws in place to protect the consumer. It is the banking system there will always be people willing to get by on a measly 1mil a year.

Yes its very sad that Goldman might lose the guy that thought up the oil futures scam.

BRAIN DRAIN??? That's hilarious! As a taxpayer I welcome any and all corporations that want to drain these failed businesses of their "brains". LOL. That's like 'draining' the stink from a terd. If they want it, they are welcome to it.

So... Help me with this. Are we to have fear that cutting the pay for these "exects" will harm the banking business? Are these the same guys who have been paid by their clients? Have lived in EXTREAM luxerly. And totally destroyed their ventures by greed and the inability to do their job? So much so that OUR government (YOU&ME BABE) has had to bail them. And think this will continue? Again help me with this. I've been, am, a small business owner for over 30 years. I'm still standing. Still take care of those who work for me for they make me what I am. But in the same token, I screw up, I'm done. NO GOLDEN PARACHUTE, NO BUYOUT, No NOTHING. There are plenty of people able to replace these greedy morons at any time, and do a better job. Thanks, Hope it makes sense. Karl

The problem is that we blame the businesses when the government's taxes, policies, and regulations cause them to go bankrupt. When good government policies are practiced then almost any business can prosper. But, when bad policies, and excess taxation and regulations are put in place by the government then even the best managed businesses will fail. This is government stabbing American businessmen in the back and then accusing them of carrying a concealed weapon.

These people are the brains because they have learned how to play the system. How did they learn the rules? They created the rules when they created the game. It's about them keeping their stuff, and the working class being allowed a taste of their lifestyle so we will think we can attain their heights. This is more and more about the "haves" and the "have nots." Oh, and I was too blind to know about the classes in our society until my Libertarian/Conservative/Glen Beck follower friend showed me the light. I think she mistakenly thought I would be one of the "haves." I think I'd rather associate with the "have nots" myself.

Every working man knows the boss is an idiot. Here we are talking about the bosses', bosses', bosses', boss. thas 4 times the idiot. Pompoous a$$e$ that actually do little work. They didn't even really think upo the scams that caused the crisis. But they did let them happen! Cut their bonuses? They should be going to jail!

Gary Root,

You must be one of the "brain trust". These melt downs as well as just about every other economic melt down in our history have happened because of LACK of regulation. PLease go read a little history.

This is what happens when a piece of paper is used to determine someones worth, nothing beats experience ......

If they had brains, they wouldn't be in this predicament. High salaries are not an indicator of intelligence. In some cases they can be indicators of low morals, though - since some people will stop at nothing to make a buck.

I agree, if there is a "brain drain", why did they cause their companies to go bankrupt (saved by the tax payers though)?

Where are they going to go for a new job? Are they going to go overseas and live in India where they shipped all the US jobs. There's probably hundreds if not thousands of capable MBA's that would kill for those 200k CEO positions.

Gary R; I have never seen a letter or e-mail from any exec.or testimony to a congressional committee, to any congressman indicating that regs. were a problem. EVER. Talk is cheep and questionable at best.

If they keep failing it wont be the cap but those in charge. That's the big picture and why those in charge need to be replaced!

You can't blame a salary cap on piss-poor-leadership. If they want to go back to making those salaries then they better get there company back on track and that's all there is too it. Pay back the TRAP and lose the leash don't pay it back and I hope it's a shock collar because it might shock some sense into them.

First you say, replace those in charge. I'm good with that. Obviously in a situation like this, you need somebody who really REALLY knows their stuff and has the ability to pull off a next to impossible feat.

How many people do you think you'll get to leave their jobs, partner with this administration, expose themselves to all the nasty public scrutiny, make no more than $500,000 (about $230,000 after taxes), and then be made an international scapegoat when the business ultimately fails.

NOBODY WITH ANY TALENT WILL DO THIS...

What's so impossible about not setting up a salary that will bankrupt your company, not firing those that get the work done to keep that salary, and not nickle an dime your customers to the point where they go someplace else for service?

Common sense might not be so common anymore but I know we don't need a Rocket Scientist to see that the problems started when these people let greed over ride good judgement.

You guys are in some serious denial. I never SAID it wasn't decent money, but there is NO WAY you are going to get a competant CEO for that kind of chump change, for that kind of challenge, no matter how much they love one.

It has nothing to do with greed. Its straight up supply and demand. That means economics.

Michael

Firmly agree. The so called top talent wasn't all that talented was it (except of course in stealing everything they could get heir grimy hands on).

for you to state that there is not a single talented, ETHICAL, moral man or woman out there, who could fill such a position, then you my friend are the one in denial

I never said that. What I DID say was that you aren't going to get anybody to do it for $500K a year. NOBODY.

ABO

Nobody is the person currently without a job that has morales, knowledge, ablity, and the willingness to work right now. Let just one of them say "I Quit" and I promise you there will be 5,000 people putting in there resume with'in 24 hours.

Think I'm bluffing? Remeber over 600 people showed up to apply for one job as a Janitor at a school just 2 months ago and over 300 of them had Master's Degree's. Anyone can be replaced at anytime and the words "Don't let your ego hit you where the good Lord split you" is written on that door.

DUDE.... Of course there would be people lined up for the job. But how many could pull off saving GM? Just because you put in your resume doesn't mean you're qualified for the job. There is a VERY LIMITED POOL of people with the experience and connections to pull off the miraculous. The point is the TALENT isn't going to work for $500K. They already have better paying jobs. GM will fail ultimately. We should have let them do it in the first place.

Wrong again.

If you have the right ideas and you have the heart not to accept the word "NO" you will find the right connections ( and that doesn't mean getting connected to the same bone heads that got us into this mess because they will also be gone).

You really needed to broaden your horizons because you seem to think by your posts that only a select few know what there thinking about when it comes to getting the job done. Just think about how many never get the chance because they where not born with that silver spoon but made it anyway. Trailer park to million dollar home, living on the streets to a villa in the Bahamas, and treated like dirt to famous rock star. The hungry find a way but the fat live off others.

Good luck getting that all-important meeting with the Director of Human Resources! Just keep calling.... you'll eventually get noticed!

Working your way up from the trailer park to the million dollar house takes many decades of moving up the ladder. Lots of people have heart, but that isn't what the job of CEO requires. You need many years of actual EXPERIENCE. You need to be well-connected and respected, right? It doesn't happen overnight, and there are very few people with the right qualifications.

You obviously have no experience at the top of the house of any organization. Your comments are very naive.

The hungry find a way but the fat live off others

What a complete lie, and an insult to all those who worked their asses off and are now hated for it. Goodbye Tony. All done here.

PS... I did my patriotic duty to help GM fail yesterday. After five new GMs in the last 10 years, we bought a sweet new Acura MDX. Later GM!

There are thousands that can replace them and you know it. Just because they aren't connected doesn't mean there not qualified and your assumptions are rather childish.

You obviously have no experience at the top of the house of any organization. Your comments are very naive.

Your back to personnel attacks with no facts again but I'll let you in on a little secret...I was the guy that told every Military Base in Europe and later in the US if they could conduct the maintenance they needed to preform on there Communications Systems which would require taking those systems off line. The only person that could over ride me was the President or an Executive Order from the Joint Chiefs. So having had control of all of our Armed Forces Communications Systems I really do believe I'm better Qualified than you will ever be when it comes to Leadership and taking control of any Organization (Same as a CEO if you think about it) so you might want to watch that childish attitude with me before I decide to embarrass you.

Before you decide to embarass me? Not likley, but if you need to take the big macho military stance, I can respect that.

When I referred to the top of the house, I am specifically talking about the companies who are now government/taxpayer-owned institutions. You obviously have been successful in your chosen field -- but I doubt that you could step in and take the helm at any of these companies, comprende? Within our circle of family & friends, there are a handful of guys who were approached. I bet you can guess what their answer was.

#2.27: "...you might want to watch that childish attitude with me before I decide to embarrass you."

Tony, I've had that Anita person on ignore for days... I've enjoyed your repartee, but, seriously, she ain't worth your effort. I (and others) might get a voyeuristic thrill, however, if you made good on your threat to embarrass her... but she's a troll, so while anything you say would no doubt be on point and amusing, it will be unlikely to have any effect on her. Or "it."

Trolls are "its," right?

BM... But... if you've had me on ignore for days, then why bother reading my posts?

You are full of yourself aren't you?

I come by it honest.

bitemore

Thanks for your understanding and view. I have noticed but when there is a chance to educate someone who is completely wrong I view it as a challenge.

ABO

You need to step out of your little friends circle. Did you notice that the former CEO of BOA and the head of a College are just 2 people from different backgrounds and training up for the same CEO type position?

The top position is about leadership and good decision making. It isn't about how many numbers you have in your BlackBerry or how long you can talk on a phone...if that where the case teenagers would be running the show. So for all the big talk coming from your friends just remember talk is cheap because if all you do is talk then you haven't gotten anything done but run your mouth. If you can't crunch the numbers, write the policy, come up with new ideas, enforce the rules, and balance the books then who cares how long you run your mouth if the job isn't getting done.

My circle of friends includes people from all walks of life, from the guy living paycheck to paycheck all the way up to prominent politicians and CEOs of major organizations. I know what I'm talking about.

BOA, GM, AIG, Citi and all the rest should have been forced to reorganize and spin off entities that were bogging them down. The bailouts were a huge mistake.

A retired 65 year-old woman? I think you read somebody else's post. Show me where I said that. My picture is posted on my page. I am mid forties, business owner, graduate degree, mother of three, married for 19 years to the same wonderful guy.

With the way you present yourself I hve a very hard time accepting any of this as true

My circle of friends includes people from all walks of life, from the guy living paycheck to paycheck all the way up to prominent politicians and CEOs of major organizations. I know what I'm talking about.

Sorry to offend but I call it like I see it and at no point have I seen anything from you to suggest that you would be willinging to pull that silver spoon out long enough to even say hello to someone you consider beneath you unless it was to belittle them. So I do not consider your post to be an honest one.

Maybe if you had shown some compassion/heart for those that have been hurt by those this article deals with but as it stands your own words show a different story. This is about placing limits on those that have screwed up our economy and no longer deserve the salaries they where getting because they failed in there duties. Sorry but to be friends with the common person that has lost there job thanks to these people just doesn't come off in your postings.

Well, the truth is Tony, that I really don't care what you think. I am who I am, and I certainly have nothing to prove to you. Care to point me to anything particularly offensive, or where you claim I said I was 65 and retired. Thought not.

Your words would be insulting if you were talking to me face to face, but on the Vine? Not so much. But calling me a liar does earn you something. Welcome to my ignore list.

You might want to check who said what because I never commented on your age. Note I also didn't use the word "liar". I said your words do not come off as being honest becuase of how you have posted. You should also notice I figured you would be insulted and the word "sorry" is in there twice. Now if you still have a problem address the problem and address it to who you have a problem with.

I mistakenly thought you were Michael. My mistake.

As for your "sorries," they are inextricably tied to the "silver spoon" insult (among others). And a newsflash, when you tell someone they don't come off as honest -- it translates to "liar."

Like I said and will repeat..It is the way you present yourself through how you word your posts. You have insulted me several times without cause and to me that translates to "Stuck up snob" but instead I kept it very civil and reminded you that you shouldn't start insulting people with childish comments.

Take it for what you will but I'll also tell you that calling someone a liar is more insulting than saying I don't think your being honest. One gives the benefit of the doubt and the other leaves none.

OK well then it seems like I need to do a better job. I'll agree with the first paragraph, but not with the second. I don't think either gives the benefit of a doubt.

Then I'll explain the 2nd. If you call someone a liar then you don't believe them and you are not willing to give them a chance to change your mind even if their telling the truth. If you say I don't think your being honest with me then your willing to listen before making up your mind if they are being truthful.

Small change but big difference. I might not believe someone but until given just cause it doesn't mean they lied (not given a complete picture or maybe strecthed it a bit). As I said "Room for doubt" and willing to adjust thought on subject instead of a flat out condemn.

Well thanks for clearing that up for me. The problem is that since I hate liars, and I'm not one, I took offense to the comment. Since you are willing to listen before you make up your mind, what exactly do you feel I'm not being truthful about?

So Michael... what about my posts do you find so "pysco"?

And Tony... I have been alluding to this all week without being able to divulge proprietary information..

http://cxmb.newsvine.com/_news/2009/10/31/3446263-fdic-announced-nine-more-failed-banks

No, but I'd like to know what you think I'm lying about so we can get it cleared up.

I'll try to be as clear as possible.

You defend the people in charge that caused our Economic problem for starters. A salary cap when the company hasn't paid back the tarp funds isn't a bad thing. They can remove the cap when they payback the funds. If they don't pay it back and if they don't get the Company back on it's feet then it's obvious that even the 200,000.00 cap is to much.

Then there is the call to failure. We don't need any more people out of work. Those Banks that failed put people out of work. It put the money that people had in it in danger of being lost with the paperwork. It put there credit in danger if they had a credit card through those banks (like anyone needs to have their credit score lowered because of someone else but when the banks canceled those cards it took away from those peoples scores).

I won't draw this out but in short you come off in most of your posts like you just don't give a damn about anyone but yourself. You insult those you don't agree with (I think you do that on purpose or you have one heck of a distorted view of civil discourse), and in General just negative when it comes to giving credit where it's do (quick to blame is another way of looking at it but rare to give praise or apologize if wrong).

That's about as short as I can make it and if your offended I'm sorry but it is the truth of how I see your responses. They come of as if your way to full of yourself and no consideration for others. That is why #2.34 is hard to believe because someone that has friends across the spectrum would also come across as someone more caring.

I DO NOT defend the people who got us into this economic mess. It was a collusion between government and big business. I defend the hard-working people at those companies (lots of bankers!) who had nothing to do with the problem.

I DO point out that with salary caps, you are not going to draw the talent. Period. Supply and demand my friend. And talent is what we are going to need to get us out of this.

Offended? Hardly. I don't really care how I come across to you. Don't you get that? You act like you know me, when the only interaction we've had is on the Vine.

When the cap can be withdrawn the moment they pay off the TARP and they can go back to making a higher salary I think anyone looking to get ahead can and will take up the challenge. That's the kind of talent it will draw because that's the kind of person it will take to get the company back on it's feet. We don't need the greedy S.O.B.'s with no talent but lots of connections that got us in this mess.

I agree. Let these supposed "brains" find another company to ruin, and bring in some new blood that will do a far better job for less pay.

It is time to empty out the good ol' boy network that goes from corporation to corporation, taking increasingly larger compensation without ever having to be responsible for their companies bottom line.

Out with the old, and in with the new!

If that's their 'claim to fame' (being the brains behind the worst f up in modern history) then as the old saying goes.......we don't need no stinking brains............and their brains really do stink....yeah, let's reward these greedy brains some more so that we can bail them out again........I DON'T THINK SO!

Actually, they aren't the same brains. Did it ever occur to you that there are thousands and thousands of people working at these organizations, a miniscule number of them were involved in this? Why do you want to throw away all the innocent people who had nothing to do with the meltdown? Very narrow minded to think there are no qualfied people at these companies to fill the jobs at the top of the house.

And they never should have been bailed out in the first place. What idiot congress thought that was a great idea? DOH!

Why is it so hard for you to understand that we don't want our tax dollars paying these people bonuses. They want their bonus, then they can pay back their tarp loan. BTW it was Paulson and Bush that intiated the bail outs. At first congress wasn't going along, but then the market fell over 700 points right after the first vote.

I DO understand, believe me. But I have a difficult time finding credibility with your outrage given the fact that the head of Freddie will make over ten million next year. I assume you are outraged over that as well?

I DO understand, believe me. But I have a difficult time finding credibility with your outrage given the fact that the head of Freddie will make over ten million next year. I assume you are outraged over that as well?

You bet, but this article isn't about Freddie. For the record, I find it absolutely disgusting that any exec or ceo makes that much money while their company is failing.

Nice how you just dismissed that but... ok. So I'm clear, do you find it disgusting that the CEO of Freddie is making that much, or not?

yes.

Then we just found some common ground.

I think we have once or twice in the past. :D Happy Halloween Anita!!

And to you!

American business is suffering BECAUSE of American government.

Wrong Gary Root, Americans and American Business are suffering because of corporate greed. The goverment needs to penalize heavily those that who would rather pay slave labor to manufacture their products than have Americans be paid reasonably for. They build their business here, then send the work elsewhere. America is the stepping stone for corporations, who then turn their back on their country, for even more profits. Save America, shoot a CEO.

Gary, seriously. You need to take that schtick some where else, 'cause no one is buying it anymore!

I have to agree with disgusted. Greed is what caused the downward spiral of this economy. I don't think that none of us will be turning the other cheek.

#4.2: "Save America, shoot a CEO."

That may be a bit extreme, but I certainly don't think any of them deserve to do more than sweep floors. In fact, I know floor-sweepers who would do a better job heading some of these bloated businesses!

Even the greedy top brass are still allowed to make $10,000,000 (that's sure some pay cut)... I know that if someone offered me a job for $10,000,000 I'd come out of retirement for a year and be very happy with that salary. For that matter, I'd do it for $200,000. Real brains understand that an economy works only if all its citizens are making a decent living. There are no humans on this planet who deserve to make $10,000,000 a year. I don't care how much they love, adore, and worship themselves. They are now and always will be garbage.

#4.6: "or billions in their "career" for that matter...."

Yeah, that too. Good observation. Expensive garbage, right?

Crooks Exorbitantly Overpaid - hahahah - that was funny as all hell!

You guys are just idiots, if I were on a corporate board I would close the doors and walk away before I would hire one of your ilk to replace a leaving executive. What makes you guys think you are smarter than they are -- you don't know them -- and what have you ever done?

Gary says

You guys are just idiots, if I were on a corporate board I would close the doors and walk away before I would hire one of your ilk to replace a leaving executive. What makes you guys think you are smarter than they are -- you don't know them -- and what have you ever done?

We, the tax payers, gave these would-be talented big wigs money to bail their sorry behinds out of bankruptcy. If they were so smart they wouldn't have gotten their butts in this situation in the first place.

#5.3: "You guys are just idiots"

This thing calling itself Gary Root is acting suspiciously like one of those pieces of trash that we, the taxpayers, bailed out. It's getting only a paltry $10,000,000 a year and, oh, boo-hoo, it is throwing a pity-party for itself. It is also doing a good job of showing why the greedy slime should simply be fired. They don't have brains. They just have huge guts and a simple brain stem to notify that stomach of when it is time to gorge itself.

Phooey. With things like this running the show, you really don't have to look too far for answers as to why the economy tanked.

#5.7: "...nobody has the right to tell gary he can't receive unlimited payment, siphoned from the american public, so he can travel around in his leer jet, buy 700 dollar a bag coffee, buy six houses, and have orgies with multiple women and cocaine... (wink)"

Ooops... did he buy the Constitution, too, and redact the part about free speech? Ooops... maybe I'd be better off in Cuba... (wink back atcha)...

Unconstitutional? What are you talking about. The IRS tax code needs to be revised to pre Reagan era in which 90% of income of the wealthy was taxed. was there a brain drain then? NO. Why, who wants to make a million a year and work in Dubai for the next 40 years. Quality of life is what America is about not unchecked greed.

Bring back a fair tax code and elimnate the national deficit with no more taxes to the middle class. WAKE UP YOU FOOLS, stop Root, Hog, and Dying, and pay attention to what the wealthy have done to this nation! Take back your country!

Politicians don't make nearly what those CEO's do. They make a decent wage with decent benefits, but except those that are doing illegal and immoral things with campaign funds and personal gifts, the government doesn't actually pay them that much. Relatively speaking...

Our esteemed congressional politicians get paid for the rest of their life. Not a bad perk I'd say.

The people that our government thinks should bear the brunt of a pay reduction are now responsible for getting their companies out of trouble, fine! Let's wait and see if Obama and his czar reduce Freddie mac's, Charles E. Haldeman's or Fannie Mae's, Mike Williams salaries. When will they decide how much you and I should be able to make? Concerning Freddie and Fannie, what about Barney Franks and Dobbs, the Two idiots, one who should have to register as a sex offender, well probably both should have to register.

Exec pay should be tied more to company performance. Though, the government should not do this. There are more methods to transfer wealth to greedy executives than salary.

CEO position that pays $65K a year...would attract the best and the brightest...namely...the 3 stooges...Goofy...Daffy Duck...and maybe...Jethro Bodine...

...yes...and in Washington as well...but with much higher pay...

Billy - you're evading the point - greedy people who aren't as smart as they think they are, in corporate as well as congress.

I like the idea of cutting the salaries. I think that should be applied to the bozos in congress as well. That would get 'em out of office.

TERM LIMITS

Billy - you're evading the point - greedy people who aren't as smart as they think they are, in corporate as well as congress.

I like the idea of cutting the salaries. I think that should be applied to the bozos in congress as well. That would get 'em out of office.

TERM LIMITS

...just like we "benefited" from the "brain drain" out of Washington...