Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.comLast week's news on the slow pace ofmortgage relief for millions of struggling homeowners generated a flood of mail from readers looking for help.The Answer Desk, by John W. Schoen.
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I think the article was well written. I will make my decision on "what to do next" based upon what was written. It will require a reread or two. A representive from the bank which holds my mortgage told me, "the bottleneck is the bank. They have the money from the government (provided by the taxpayers)", he explains, "it is just getting the bank off it's butt to distribute it!" He didn't understand why it isn't done because, "it isn't costing us anything, one way or the other."
Maybe if enough of we mortgagees got together, to apply pressure in the same fashion, we could get their attention?
Throughout all of my real estate career I only had one client who had to do some "creative financing" to get a loan. They found a lender who was willing to underwrite it, and they bought a house. Soon after, they bought a second home elsewhere where they visit regularly but for a very short period of time. They also have 3 adult sons who do not have regular jobs and live at home. They buy extravagant luxury items (which they also want to lure me to buy because they would get a kick back from the merchant), and they take trips overseas (the latest one ended just this past week). So I would argue that they have some discretionary disposable income, although I don't know and don't need to know the specifics. About a year ago they decided to move to a different area of town, and when their house failed to sell for what they needed to make from it, they simply stopped paying their mortgage. As the wife put it, "The bank can have it if I can't sell it. I don't need it any more. I can rent a better place for less money." Well, the bank is now working on loan modification with them and postponing the foreclosure day month after month. These former clients of mine said they feel that they have a good claim on "Obama's money". I personally don't think it is fair if they qualify to get that modification. The money is not "Obama's" - it is yours and mine. And why should people like this benefit from this money is beyond me. The bank has approved their short sale, but they refused. I know it is not good for the economy to have more foreclosures, but I do not want to sponsor crooks - we already have enough of them on Wall Street.
Maybe if enough of you mortgagees paid your mortgages, we wouldn't have had this "crisis" in the first place.
As for the "well written article", exactly what is a "bad mortgage" they keep referring to? One where the borrower accepted terms they would later decide they didn't like, for more money than they could afford? One where the banks and borrowers ASSumed housing prices would continue to climb to the skies forever?
The banks should not have received a single cent from taxpayers, and neither should the homeowners. My mortgage is 7% of my monthly income. Not because I make a ton of money, but because I didn't want to risk the problems that everyone is complaining about now.
The only lesson I have learned from this meltdown is that I should have taken more risks, bought a bigger house and lived the "good life", so that I could have everyone else bail ME out when the house of cards fell down.
Lenders made it too easy to borrow too much money. Government made it too much of an "entitlement" to be a homeowner. But at the end of the day, borrowers signed on the line and said "you give me x, and I'll repay you x on these terms."
Despicable.
Maybe. But if you lose your job, and are 1099, can't get unemployment, your side business fails because your credit gets whacked by AmEx, and have to rely on waiting tables to make any ends meet at all, you would be more understanding. Trust me, I didn't count on any of those things, but when they happened, the bank was in a big hurry to foreclose my home. I hate it. But its the reality. So do I feel despicable? Yes. Do I consider myself to be despicable because of circumstances? No. Before you start hurling around adjectives, be aware that we are not all in the same boat as the easy lending schemes. I don't want any taxpayer bailout, and I certainly don't want any sympathy. However, whatever good life you are referring to, might be better experienced, if you slipped on a pair of shoes by some of us who don't consider ourselved despicable.
Thanks!
Rob,
I was not referring to anyone in particular with my "despicable" comment. I was referring to the press, the government, and many who post here in blaming everyone but themselves for their problems, and relying on everyone but themselves for the solution.
I was also referring to the fact that those who do the "right thing", are cautious with their money, put off big purchases, work hard, pay their mortgages and their bills, are the ones who wind up paying for those who did not.
While no one can no for ceratain, I honestly believe that for every one homeowner who had a reasonble mortgage, responsible savings, and lived within their means, there are many who did not. Realtor above mentioned one example, and I have personal expiences to match. Plenty of stats show that the average American saving's rate was 0 percent.
The "old" way of saving up until you had 20% to use for a down payment worked. This would have prevented this crisis. The government, lenders, and "gimme now" borrowers had no problem throwing this practice away when they thought they could get away with it due to an irrational bubble in home prices. They are ALL to blame.
I have no doubt that I live a good life. I also know that if I lost my job I would do whatever it took to meet my responsibilities, as I have my entire adult life. Since I have kept my bills low and my savings high, I could pretty much work at McDonalds and still pay my bills.
Joe it's so easy for you to sit there and judge when you probably are still sitting in your nice easy chair with your big screen tv in your luxurious home and you've never experienced job loss or extremely heavy medical bills that put you under water. It's easy to sit there and judge when you've never suffered through hard times. Don't be so quick to judge but it sure would be nice if you were able to shoot yourself in the foot for what your big mouth said if you suddenly lose your job or had a heart attack, stroke, cancer or a million other medical problems that could put you into financial disaster overnight. Do not judge unless you've been there buddy.
Dreams,
Did you even read what I wrote? I don't have a big house, or big screen tv, or go on extravagant vacations. I put those purchases off because I wanted to make sure I could meet my obligations first, despite having a very comfortable salary. My daughter has had 9 eye surgeries, my wife several procedures for chronic pain due to an injury. All of these have been paid for by the insurance provided, in part by my employer and in part by my premiums. I also paid for deductibles for each procedure.
As for quick to judge, I simply said that there are many people who live "better" lives than I do, in bigger houses with newer, nicer cars and make significantly less money than I do. I did everything the way I was always taught (put enough down, get acceptable terms), and made sure I could meet my obligations. Others did not and are expecting someone else to bail them out.
Why don't you read my posts first, buddy, before you assume I am judging anyone.
Rider,
If that is a bad loan then it shouldn't have been taken. As for the lenders getting government money, that certainly shouldn't have happened either. We should not have spent a single cent to bail out lenders that took too much risk, when they had no problem making the gains on the way up.
No bailouts, period, would have been my approach.
Thanks Rob-319145
Your one of the few, that know what he's talking about. Consumer greed did not cause this crisis...lender greed did.
Most ppl were trying to get a piece of the american dream. They would have signed anything...they thought would give their children as well as themselves a secure future. Lending practices are so complicated, because they want, need, and desire, a uniformed, desparate consumer.
I went to 3 different mortgage brokers...and was offered the same adjustable rate mortgage. With the carrot, that I would be able to refinace later. My credit was not perfect, but it certainly didn't warrent a rate of 12.490%. My generous mortgage company modified it to 9.490%. It reminds me of the old Traffic song..."...and the man that you trusted just bought a new car,. From the profits he made from your dreams."
Waaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Desperation is not an excuse. Being uninformed is not an excuse. Understanding the severity of the (most likely) single-most expensive purchase in your life is not something anyone should approach lightly. What is so insecure about renting and saving up until you can afford, REALLY afford a house?
Did the lenders force you to accept the terms you now say were unwarranted? If so, please report the criminals to the authorities. If not, please place the appropriate amount of blame on yourself for being a self-admitted ignorant borrower. YOUR greed was responsible, just as much as the lenders. The difference is, you went to them with a need, took their money, accepted their terms, and didn't live up to them.
I am not looking forward to living in a country where people are so quick to say they are too stupid to make their own decisions, so they need to government to do it for them. Unfortunately, that is where we are going.
Cloud 97408:
So you said "My credit was not perfect, but it certainly didn't warrent a rate of 12.490%.
My question is, so WHY did you sign on the bottom line? Did someone hold a pistol to your head? No, you wanted someting you knew from the beginning was very risky, but the desire trumped the risk and so you signed. Now you want to someone, anyone to come along and cut you some slack.
Some blame the lenders, other blame the buyers. Hey, it takes two to Tango and like hormonally crazed kids lots of folks went to the dance. So now you get to pay the hard way, oh well!
I made my mortgage payments on time for 13 straight years. I lost my job and then was offered another job with a $1,000 a month loss of income. No one would help me. Now that I stopped paying on the house, the banks will help. This does not make sense, but this is the only thing that works. I was out borrowing money from loan sharkers to make ends meet, but once I realized that my colleagues had not made a house payment in 6 months and were still not in foreclosure, I decided to start paying out my loan sharkers and get in line with the rest for help. Sorry guys, but I tried. The bank people even told me that if my loan was current, they would not be in a hurry to help me. This is the Taxpayer New Reality: Pay your bills on time, have a good credit report and you will get help. Real Reality: Stop paying your bills on time, get behind on your house payment and get a big hit on your credit report. YOU WILL BE REWARDED JUST LIKE THE REST OF THE CRONIES ON WALL STREET. JOIN THE CLUB
I feel your pain. We are in a NO WIN situation. Bank of America rewarded my 20 years of service by tripling my interest rate on my card. Chase rewarded my 12 years of service by changing my minimum payment from 2% to 5%. My mortgage company, Taylor, Bean & Whitaker, had its doors closed by Ginnie Mae and Freddie Mac one day after I was told I qualified for a refinance after months of trying to get someone on the phone.
I have never missed a payment nor have I ever been late. Yet this is what I get for working hard, being responsible, taking pride in having an excellent credit score. Thanks, thanks a lot!
SHININGSTART you really think it will pay off you have another thing coming! We've been through it all. Severe pay cut and I mean severe pay cut because of the economy and then one major medical disaster after another put us into a bind after have what we were told the most perfect credit that they had ever seen. We were ALWAYS very responsible and didn't live the high life and only bought within our means and then in one fell swoop it was all gone. We tried to apply for a home modification when we knew we wouldn't be able to make the full payment BEFORE we had to miss. The banks refused to take even a partial payment. Month after month we tried to get a modification and we begged the bank to let us pay at least half the house payment but they said it was either all or nothing. Four months went by and they refused to talk to us about a modification until after the fifth month and then they said the process could begin. They told us it was probably going to mean more than likely that they would lower the principle since our home was now only worth 1/4 of the original loan so we thought ok. Well after several months more of lots and lots of paperwork and phone calls we finally got the modification. If we had knonw how it would have turned out we would have let them foreclose and walked away from the house. We still in the end will probably have to walk away because with all the fees that the bank added on and all the interest, late payments and other fees our loan is $100,000 MORE than our original loan. We now have a 40 year loan and an adjustible rate which will go up in five years and even IF we could sell the house down the road we have an added balloon payment of $40,000 on top of the huge raise in our original loan. Sure our house payment is half of what it was but we will never and I mean never be able to sell our home for what the mortgage and balloon payment is now. I even asked them what do we do if we need to sell our home for some unforeseen problem because after all we are in our sixties and will never see this home paid for and they said the only option we will have is to walk away. So if you think you are giong to get a good deal even IF you can get a modification you better think twice, three or four times because baby it's not going to happen. You will be much deeper in debt and no way out. Actually those people that weren't able to get a home modification are probably the lucky ones because they can just walk away from it. I wish we now had and never done a modification.
HANGINONBYFAITH hey you are lucky! Our credit cards, all of them went from 12% up to 29.99% interest all without notice. We too had perfect credit and never missed a payment and that was before the loss of pay and the medical tribulations. No warning, no choice, no reason at the time, the credit card companies just did it. Payment quadrupled on them! What was once affordable all of a sudden became unaffordable.
Let's see. Worked 1099 but didn't put anything away for emergencies and had a side business that required using AmEx to float the activity, but didn't pay AmEx.
Received a 100% mortgage at 12.49%; yes, your credit was that bad.
We saved for 15 years in order to put 20% down on our house and have payments that weren't more than 20% of take home pay. Now these people want to use our money to bail them out. Talk about feeling used!!!!!!!!
Here here.
PROAMERICA let's see how you feel when even after you've done all that like we did and had money in savings and put actually 35% down on our home and then the hit from the economy cut our pay into less than half of what it was and then you get hit by several major medical crisises and overnight DESPITE DOING EVERYTHING RIGHT you find yourself losing everything you've worked all your life for. You had the perfect credit, you paid your bills on time, you didn't buy luxury items or a luxury home and you lived within your means but guess what. You CAN DO EVERYTHING RIGHT and suddenly everything is gone in the blink of an eye despite that. Do NOT JUDGE unless you've been there.
Dreams,
Sounds like you did everything right (from your post at least), and I do, truly fell bad for your situation. I am also VERY appreciative of my place in life, though I know that it is in large part due to my very hard work, smart choices, and living below my means. I have no doubt that bad things can happen to good people, despite their best efforts.
Question is, what would you expect to see happen from here? Who do you expect to "fix" the problem, and how? The "government" doesn't have money, they have OUR money. Do government agencies have the ability to look into your home, evaluate your choices, and know that you did everything right and deserve to have other people's money forcibly removed from them and given to you?
If not the government providing assistance for you, then you would expect it from the lenders. As I said before, lenders should do what make sense for their overall interests. But can they simply decide to lower everyone's rate or reduce everyone's principle balance? Would they only do it for people who had "trouble"? If so, why is that fair for those who do not? Why is it fair to the shareholders, or employees who rely on the success of that business for their livelihood?
My entire point in every post here was that blaming the bankers and holding homeowners blameless is wrong. No one forced anyone to buy a home, and certainly not to accept "bad" loan terms. It is not the bank's fault that borrowers can't make their payments.
I already posted this on a similar blog last week but believe it worth repeating here, whatever your view on the subject is....
Listen up, NOT EVERY HOMEOWNER IS LOOKING FOR AN EASY RIDE & POINTING BLAME ELSEWHERE. No doubt there are people with the victim mentality you describe....
BUT......I talk to people every day who are tired of working 14 hour days, seven days a week - managing a full time career with additional part-time jobs, and rarely seeing their family, just to keep up. These are college educated people with established careers that have lost income, but not their jobs. They have played by the rules and always done the right thing. Many of them have owned two or three homes already over the last 20 years, but it just so happens they had the misfortune of buying the one they are currently in during the last five years, and now owe on a note twice what the home is currently worth. They are seasoned homeowners who understand the entire process and bought well within their means! They pay their credit cards off in full every month, own vehicles outright, and have had a lifetime of flawless credit. They have no other debt but their home. So when the lender looks at the options:
1. work with homeowner whether its a principal or rate reduction or both - temporarily or permanently....
2. work with the homeowner on a shortsale....
3. or, drive the homeowner to the point of foreclosure because you won't work with them...
WHAT sense does it make to force people out of their homes when they can easily continue affording them when the economy recovers and their income returns?
Why, when in your neighborhood, others have walked away and you haven't, should you be forced to suffer the effects of tanking property values to the point of not being able to refinance because the lender will no longer qualify you --- AND A MODIFICATION IS THEN YOUR ONLY OPTION!!?!!?!!!?!!!
Why, when you can easily afford your home at the current market value WITH YOUR ADJUSTED LOWER INCOME should you not have that chance and instead the bank allows someone else to buy it at an auction?
There are so many things wrong with this. For those who don't want to keep or stay in their homes, let them move on, but for those that do, work with the homeowners!!!
Brenda,
It is sad when people do things right and run into misfortune, as you have mentioned. Not every bad twist of fate can be planned for and mitigated.
That being said, having a house worth 1/2 its value is a VERY limited case, with Phoenix (I'm guessing that the case you, Brenda AZ, are referring to is there) being only one of two metros in that situation.
"Las Vegas joined Phoenix in showing a decline from the area’s peak of more than 50 percent. Dallas, which never had much of a housing boom, is the best-performing city in the index, down 11.1 percent from its peak." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/27/business/economy/27home.html
With 20% down and 5 years of payments, most people should be "break even" with up to a 25% drop in home price over the past 5 years. For those who are un or under employed, having several months living expenses saved up, plus unemployment insurance (recently extended another 1/2 year) should be helping.
When it comes to loan modifications, the banks should certainly be doing what is in their overall best interest, with a lot of considerations. If they lose too much money, they have their own employees and shareholders to consider. They have current, past, and pending government legislation to wade through.
As you mentioned, they also have to worry about their customers. Having a customer walk away is bad for business. They get stuck trying to sell the house for a loss, while they may have been better doing a modification. Making modifications too quickly can be a self-feeding loss as well, with the nearly impossible task of trying to figure out who is truly "needy" or "worthy", and who is just trying to take advantage. Even customer satisfaction; making the customer happy, good press for being "kind", can drive business decisions.
Making the blanket assertions (not you, but the press, the government and MANY people), that the evil, greedy, money-grubbing fat-cat bankers are the root of all problems is just downright wrong and counter-productive. (no, I am not anywhere near the banking or lending industry)
One final note. Many of the people who are unemployed due to this "crisis" ARE being impacted by people who bought too much house for too little money.
As "cloud" up above said, "Most ppl were trying to get a piece of the american dream." The difference is, many of us were busy working hard, putting off rewards and instant gratification, in order to earn it.
" My Fellow Americans " .........My heart bleeds for all Americans that for one reason or another thru no fault of their own...(job loss, reduced hours, a big loss of income, wife lost her job, savings account went to 0 due to a long illness, or death of a spouse ), well all of the last mentioned and then some, you could see that the banks and financial institutions are just plain "Heartless" in trying to give some sort of relief on the interest rate or some sort of assistance for those needy people that do urgently needed to save their home from losing it to a short sale and end up homeless on the street. It is a terrible and spireling feeling that a human being should not have to endure, it is like loosing all hope and a feeling that only those that are experisiencing can know that feeling, "TERRIBLE".
I am aware of all of those other people that are greedy, frauds, decitful, and plain "No Good" that are making this Home Afordable Program into a sham. And for the banks that got BILLIONS of bailout money "Shame on all of You" for not trying to help the homeowners that really need your assistance in order for them to keep their home.
Lets' hope that some of this help will be comming soon, or else some good American people will lose their last American Dream in their lifetime. "May God Bless America".
the mortgage nightmare is real, and getting help from the loss mitigation people is impossible. I lost my job in Florida in Nov '08. When I called the mortgage company to try and modify the loan, they advised me to miss a couple of payments to put me in the 'risk' catagory so I could get help. The phone calls started a month later, twice a day, wondering where their payments were. We were presently trying to short sale the property. The Florida real estate market collapsed, we moved in with inlaws(out of state), found employment(out of state), and tried to give the deed back to the bank, in lieu of foreclosure. Now, in August '09, we are being sued by the lender, after taking the bad advise from their loss mitigation people. There is a short sale offer in, but the bank says they only consider short sales if the offer is close to the market value. We have lost the 80 thousand dollars we put down, and the 40 thousand dollars in remodelling dollars, and it seems the bank would rather sue me than take the short sale payout, which is 30 thousand less than the loan amount. We have contacted loss mitigation at least once per week since November, with no results. They always ask "would you like to pay your balance today"? My response has now become " I would LOVE to pay the balance today, but unfortunately my lottery numbers didn't hit, and I am once again unable to do this for you". I gotta give it to the Obama administration-I have definitely seen a change- from upper middle class to lower lower class-in 6 months. How's that for a change?
I am really sad to hear of your issues...but I have to say, Obama administration isn't the one to blame...he just got into office... the forclosure issue was happening way before he took office. Although it has not been initiated quick enough, at least he has put together a program with others that can at least help assist people if the banks would get on the ball
We only wanted our loan modification to get a lower interest rate. 2% means little to a huge corp. over 30 yrs. but $200 less a month means a world of difference to us! We're still waiting thru BofA,we qualify, and I keep up with them regularly and keep asking. hopefully, it will go thru. P.S. We bought this home for my son and his family (they didn't qualify for this low 130,000 mtg)but they are making the payments to us. However, both of them have had their hours cut at work, so the $200 would help them out.
For those of you in this situation...here is some help. I refuse to keep reading the posts of those who are blaming homeowners who are looking for a modification. My husband and I bought and put 20% down. I lost my job in February and my husband owns his own construction business in which profit has decreased by 50%. We are responsible and ARE STILL paying our mortgage but have to supplement it with our savings...sorry to those who dislike those of us looking for help but do you want us to deplete all of our savings to then forclose???!!!! We are trying to get a loan modification now so that we CAN be responsible and keep paying our mortgage and not forclose.
Thus, those of you also looking for help...as the article states, look for HUD approved counseling groups in your area. We are lucky enough to live in Ventura, CA and there is a group called CEDC (a nonprofit group) who has forclosure counselors....they are helping us to submit all paperwork to the bank for the Making Home Affordable Plan. Good luck to those who are in a similar situation, and I do hope you are able to keep your home!
I'm a homeowner of ten years trying for a Hardship Refi under Pres O's plan. I started with Wells Fargo Mortgage Assistance June 2, 2009 (I'm dying and can't work.)
Wells has lost my 10th set of documents. I was assured by three different calls on three different day that they had everything to make a good decision. Today I got another call asking for documents they confirmed three times were received. In each case I became very distressed was not very polite about their lousy service.
The assistance plan from Pres O's a bunch of crap, just like all of his experimental plans. I will die long before Wells act on my request. There is a 30 day Freddie Mac regulation deadline. Each time I have to start over again because they keep losing my documentation.
Now I'm back to zero. Again. Having worked for large banks for a long time, I understand their reluctance to give anybody a break. But the 6% that WELLS APPROVES FOR HELP IS UNCONSCIONABLE! I noticed Wells took our tax money in the bailout.
This program will never work until somebody in Washington gets off their butts and does a little research on the workings of their own programs. Meanwhile, those of us with REAL needs are going without and losing our homes.
little
I'm so sick of these people with their "Got Mine - Let them Eat Cake" mentality. Selfish and greedy people who think that bad luck can never touch them. Well guess what? The bigger they are...the harder they fall and when the economy turns to hypo-inflation, GOD might not be kind to you.
I think the economy will get worse and worse, and I also think that many of the Bragging right wing Bubbas on these message boards will be startin to loose their homes too. The same ones that were so quick to judge those in trouble will feel the sword of the lord come down on them. He will not be kind on those. They will suffer the most because they had no sympathy for their fellow man who lost everything through no-fault of their own. This will be a silver lining for those that lost all, when they get the pleasure (and I mean REAL PLEASURE) in watching the pompous and the arrogant fall with a THUD and a puff of dust coming up. I CAN't WAIT. Brace yourself BUBBAS - it can not get here too soon for me. You make me sick. I had a fixed rate mortgage and we lived within our means. My husband's company closed down and moved to Mexico. Unemployment in this state is 320 per wk. No one can live on that and pay a house payment. Wake up and smell the coffee! This is just the tip of the iceberg because the new foreclosure wave is going to be Commercial property and more residential from job losses and NOT from adjustable rate mortgages! You all make me sick. Can't wait to watch all of you fail! Will actually take pleasure in it. Especially after you all loose your health insurance through job loss and you can no longer pay for your medical bills. Oh yes, that is coming to you also......Good LUck! NOT
Martine,
You seem to like to throw around a lot of words like "selfish", "greedy", "bragging", "pompous", "arrogant". While I can't speak for everyone posting here, I can say that there is a big difference between my personal feelings towards my fellow citizens, and the role I think government and businesses should play. I enjoy helping others, and being able to share in the successes I have had in my life. But that is my choice, and I help those who I feel are truly in need and truly deserve it. I have also come across many in my life who do not. They make poor financial choices, game the system, and take our money in the process. The government doesn't have the ability to make that determination effectively, so they take from those who have and give to those who do not, regardless of how or why the disparity exists.
I know that I am fortunate, but also know that I worked hard to get here. It wasn't that long ago that my family of four lived in a 40 foot travel trailer, parked on a family member's property, while I worked cleaning offices for one job and building windows third shift for another, so my wife could stay home and raise our new daughter. After years of hard, smart work, I have a very good career and as much job security as one can have in uncertain times. I wasn't handed anything, and I refuse to feel guilty for the successes I have had in my life.
If times get worse and financial crisis hits our home, we will work twice as hard to get back on track, and hope that our kindness and willingness to help others is reciprocated. What I won't do is blame the government or my creditors for my plight.
Meanwhile, thousands of miles away is a family living in a mud hut, working the land for their food, raising a family, and living their lives. They don't have a 3000 sq ft home with a 60 in plasma. They don't have 2 cars in a driveway. They don't have an ipod and 100 pair of shoes and designer jeans. Somehow, despite these grave injustices, they survive. I'm not suggesting that we revert back a few centuries or digress to third world status. I do think we have elevated our expectations to a point where "getting by" simply isn't acceptable. Personally, I think a giant "reset" would be a good way to put things back in perspective.