Government Motors Only!

Even if it did I couldn't justify going into debt under the guise of helping the 'environment'...whatever that is.

This is just a back-handed way of building up yet another bubble because Americans are saving too much and not spending our way back to business as usual.

No, it does not.

What I thought was interesting is that you only have to get better than 5 mpg more to get the maximum. The original bill was 13 mpg. Guess someone explained to them that eliminates almost all of the obese 3s autos they have continued to stamp out. I'm waiting for Chrysler's version of the Fiat Panda with the 1.3L turbo diesel that gets 50 mpg. Or maybe one of GMs Opels with the ecoTECH engines that allows a full size sedan to get 46 mpg. I've got 2 years to pay off the Liberty. Even tho I know I'll only get a forth of its price on trade in because of its crappy millage. I refuse to buy a gas guzzling dinosaur just because of this program. With only 5 mpg difference that means you could trade in an H2 for a Chevy Subdivision and still get the maximum. And that is some how going to break our dependence on foreign oil.

I feel really good that my tax money is going to such a ridiculous program......

what is a chevy "subdivision?" is that...like..a neighborhood with nothing but chevys?

A Chevy Subdivision is an SUV so large it qualifies as a subdivision.

This is just so wrong. Spend more govt. money, (that they don't have) to encourage sales of new cars. Is this a round about stimulus program to create new jobs for the scrap yard industry? It is insane for the govt. to create programs like this, when they have done NOTHING to foster new, permanent, product producing JOBS. We need those jobs to pay for these cars. Get the cart out from in front of the horse and fix the job problem!

$4500 is not going to encourage me to buy a new pick-up. My old pick-up wearing out will encourage me to buy another truck, and it's replacement will not be new.

Great! Now if they will just pass a law that says if you loose your job, your taxes go up or for any other unforeseen reason you can't affordthe payments, they will make them for you, people just might actually fall for this con game. Obama and the Congress can't stand the thought that maybe, just maybe for the first time in a long time, more Americans are actually saving money and spending only what is necessary. I have a 1997 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel and a 2002 Ford Mustang. Both run great, get acceptable fuel mileage and most important, are paid for. There is no way I am going to trade either one of them in for a new vehicle, even IF I could get the max allowance voucher on either or both. The last think I want in these uncertain economic times is one or two more payments!

Nice try, G.M. Obama but no sale!

Also, don't forget, these cars are to be junked. So your trade in is going to have to be valued at the credit amout or less. Then the buyer will have to make up the difference from the credit amount to the cost of the new car.

The way I see it, the basic purchase price of a new vehicle just jumped by $4,500.

I would, however, be more than happy to sell the two P.O.S. vehicles parked in the yard directly to Uncle Sugar and take the $9,000 to go buy one newer used vehicle.

So now I get to fund,

1. Banker CEO perks and bonuses

2. Morons that bought more house than they could afford

3. Idiots that can't buy their own dam car. (They can't afford a new car or the buy now pay later crowd would have bought one already)

Hey Obama and you slimeball CONgress pigs...How much more fricking money do you want from my paycheck to support all these azzholes. Please get it over with and tell me upfront instead of nickle and diming me to death.

AND dumbazz's....why do you want them to buy new cars this year when we are only 2 years away from plugin electric cars? Are you stupid? 90% of the US drivers drive less than 50 miles a day during the week. Plugin electric will eliminate...yes eliminate their gas needs during the week.

GET A FRICKIN CLUE CONgress, and quit banging your house boys.

...wouldn't it be interesting, if instead of "shredding" all of the vehicles, if they donated some of the newer ones that were traded in, or somehow figured out a way to donate some of these vehicles to the individuals and families that are currently homeless? The "transient" situation in our country is out of control. At least this would give them something, reaching down even further into our current situation to those who are almost "beyond reach" already.

You know, I just don't get it!

I'm almost 37 years old, a single mother of 5 who's served 12 years in volunteer mission work as a young adult, returning with my kids after my husband left me. I had no money, no job, no credit & no college education but I managed to work hard, go to school & make it with a newer vehicle & VERY little "debt" which I'm paying of on a regular basis. Yes, the economy is HARD & I've had to go back to part-time bartending to keep us afloat.

But you know what? The ONE thing I've faced for the past several years which is particularily hard right now in our current work-place environment is our "younger generation" & their complete lack of responsibility, wanting everything handed to them for nothing, and not knowing how to WORK HARD and be responsible.

I've struggled hard for years to instill in my children a sense of hard work & responsibility & education to get you ahead in life & yet here our government is teaching them the opposite....sit on you hind quaters, do nothing, get yourself into extreme debt & then go for free hand-outs to get yourself out of it?

I know it's not "politically correct" & I don't consider myself any longer to be a highly religious individual but aren't we a "nation under God" who "In God we trust"? And aren't the Biblical, fundamental values which our nation is founded on being statistically & rythmically broken? Where does this leave our nation? Who are we becoming? What's happening to our future and that of our children whom we've worked ourselves to the bone to attempt to properly raise?

Anyone wanna clue me in on this???

How the hell is this Constitutional!!

I was at a dealer yesterday asking about this voucher program, and a sales manager told me that you had to make less thank $37K a year to qualify for this voucher program. Is this true? I haven't read anything about an income restriction.

Yes. This is the same pattern that has been going on, since big business has bought big government!

And we'll even throw in free health care too!

After only 5 months, the pattern is wearing.

Another fine plan!

Just like the Stimulus plan that hasn't worked, prompting Obamavich to come out and say, "I'm going to try to Stimulate the Stimulus Plan".

Does he have something against America? Because after 5 months of his policies, it sure looks like it.

When will his Community Organizer experience kick in?

I think the kid operating the Paper Route in my Neighborhood has more Business Experience than Obamavich. I know he has more common Sense. The Paper boy would have never put a tax cheat in charge of the IRS.

Un-F%&KING Believable!

rmbscuba,

I suggest you be very, very, careful what you say about the Obama Messiah. Remember according to his Gustavo who's politically correct title is Director of Homeland Security, anyone who speaks out against Obama or his policies is an Extreme Right wing terrorist threat to national security, or words that effect.

As soon as they pass the "Fairness Doctrine" posts such as ours will not be allowed and their authors will disappear. Nazi Germany part II coming soon to your neighborhood.

I suspect that given enough time we will all be driving those little two seater's called the "Smart Fortwo". This will the Obama version of Hitler's V.W.

Hell I didn't know why no one has thought of this before; Whenever Obama uses Air Force One, he can keep it aloft with all the hot air he is full of, save the tax payers a bundle on jet fuel and do his part to reduce carbon emissions at the same time! During war we could place Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Ted Kennedy and Barbara Feinstien in Air force One with him and the plane could remain aloft indefinitely.

Thanks for the heads up, I lost my mind for a minute there. It won't happen again! And I promise to act as dumb as the rest of his followers.

If I get free Government health Care, will I have to pay tax on it? Just wondering, because my wife and I are contemplating quitting our jobs, letting our house go into foreclosure, quit paying on our credit cards all in hopes of having a better life with our new Government free stuff.

The Messiah rules and I adhere to his rules. There, I'm one of Odumbo's followers.

Boy, that was close.

Thanks again!

A lost but found sheep

Absolutely one of the worst government programs ever. All in an attempt to get Americans to buy cars they don't need, just like the $8,000 credit for new home buyers.

Effectively your tax dollars are going to be used to be pieces of junk at way, way over their actual value. The dealers then have to scrap the cars, even though they may be perfectly drivable. And this is making us greener? scrapping cars that are most likely not driven much anyway to replace them with newly manufactured cars.

In about 1 yr when all of the idiots who buy houses and cars because of the government credits start defaulting we will have more problems, a bubble built buy the government using taxpayer money. And what do you think their solution will be? Yes, more credits "to get people buying again" with more taxpayer money. The inability of our government to see beyond tomorrow is astounding, they are destroying the future by attempting to get temporary results today at any cost.

pjam: The market for used cars is through the roof right now.

If dealers can load up on them they will make a killing on them in addition to the new cars they can sell under this plan.

NO. The true waste is yet another BILLION Dollars that Obama has tossed out like play money! The good old tax payers will be eating that as well!

Agreed, Rob. I have a 98' Jeep Grand Cherokke Laredo. Bought it last July. Can't afford a new car, nor can I afford the car insurance that would cover a newer car. Not the type of car that I wanted, but it was all I could afford. Plus, it is in good condition with only one owner other than me. If I bought off the used car lots, I would have paid more for the car and then pay even more to fix it up.

Agreed! Will drive my 1996 BMW 328i (with 188K miles) until it completely falls apart!

This is the CHANGE (supposedly) 60% of the populist voters wanted, hallelujah!!!

Or, you could look at this another way:

People that have behaved responsibly and haven't bought a new car to avoid the debt while saving for a car they intend to pay cash for, and are still driving clunkers (like myself), will now buy when I would have waited till my car just died on me.

I completely disagree with the concept, but on this particular issue I've given up and will take advantage of it. Because I know enough Americans will, that me not taking advantage to prove a point will make no difference in the end to anyone but me, who will have paid more than I had to for a car.

I too wish there was a "Buy American" clause in here, even though I don't need one. I'll be buying a Ford despite the fact the my last three vehicles have been Chryslers and I've been thrilled with them. Ford stood tall, is trying to mend themselves without Gov't intervention, and I for one will reward them for it.

One other thing I will be doing: writing to the Obama expressing my opposition to this. It may seem hypocritical, and it probably is, but on this I'm playing the hand I'm dealt.

Hence your moniker? I like it!

Pragmatic, but I was told that there was an income restriction of $37K on these vouchers by a sales manager at a dealer yesterday.

Has anyone else heard anything like this?

NO. Some folks will see the stupidity of our government, and hopefully get tired of it enough, and make a stand before its all gone. BTW, I am not a REPUKELICAN, nor a DUMBSH*TOCRAT, so get off your soapbox.

That's not true at all.

But you can't see what's wrong with anything he does no matter what.

Scott, most people in this country could give a rats ass if its a republicans idea, or a democrats idea. A dumb idea is a dumb idea. Suggest you pull your head out and join the rest of us!

Edwin, False. I have repeatedly come down on Obam on issues on these forums. His not releasing the visitor list, I must have repeated a dozen times my position that I was against this. I WROTE the president saying I was against him doing that.

Just because you're used to seeing 8 years of BLIND support for anything the president does doesn't mean that's the way it's going to be. Some people actually care more about this country than they do about the party.

I don't give 2 bits about either party. The corruption is so deep the only way to get rid of it, is to clean house. I don't mean term limits or voting them out. I mean gun to the head; retire now or be fired.

I'm sorry Scott but I disagree; I'm neither party. I am an American. A silly idea is just that. Plain and simple. Do the math & get real.

That and this are both incredibly bad ideas.

My point is that none of this "outrage" over the government doing things like helping people buy cars seems to have existed before. Find articles from conservative talk show hosts saying any of these plans from the bush admin, giving out BILLIONS of dollars to people to buy cars, was a bad idea.

I understand that. Both sides dem and rep have lost all semblance of control. A tax deduction for business is one thing, a deduction for buying a certain car is not good, and neither is handing out more money.

Printing money that doesn't exist and handing it out, whether in the form of a tax deduction or a handout, is a bad idea. Both sides do it, and both sides are wrong.

My only issue, again, is that there was no outrage before January of this year.

I agree with your comment 100%. But, again, there seemed to be a complete LACK of outrage about this during the bush years. Where were all of the "conservative" talk show hosts on this issue? I listened, and most of them were trying to justify some of this massive spending (The Cato Institute and a few others did not). It was only towards the end that I saw some complaints, by then the damage was massive.

I agree with many liberatarian concepts, and applaud those who were vocal against what was wrong then, and now.

My position was, and will be, to write the administration on those issues which I feel are misguided. I've done so twice, and will continue to do so.

The Bush years were for the most part flush years of plenty, people spending and spending and spending - which got us where we are today.  And not just gov't, but We The People, spending what we did not have on things we did not need.  I feel almost smug now, because I am too cheap to engage in the kind of ridiculous spending that went on during those years, ie fur coats for my dog, designer handbags, $250 jeans, leased cars I couldn't afford that were bigger than my house, and most importantly, a 3,000 square foot home when the 1,600 sq. feet I have - AND CAN AFFORD - serves just fine.

AND, Bush was doing so much other stupid crap, finding in the heap of hubris a wee little thing like incentives for hybrid car purchase was practically impossible, since so much of what he was doing was even MORE stupid.

Again, I don't agree with this.  But at least this is directly stimulative, if it happens.  It's contrived, it rewards bad behavior, it's blatantly supporting big lobbying groups, and etc.

Scott I believe what's got our attention now is the blatant discussion of actual NUMBERS going out sooooo quickly. Heads are swimming as a result even though I agree that our deficit was immense all along...this is all pretty extreme don't you think?

I'll bring the the stuff to make some smorse

Wow! Bush and Obama are equally dumb.

Anyone who can't see the difference between a "tax break", with no spending cuts to offset it, which then raise the deficit, which in turn means higher taxes for the rest of us, and simply bypassing all of this and giving people money, is a republican.

Nope, not my point. Thanks for trying.

My point is that in both cases the money did not exist. It was printed up and handed out, even though it wasn't there.

Oh, and by the way, this "tax cut" thing is vote buying, pure and simple.

Reagan - I'll cut taxes AND end the deficit

Bush Sr - Read my lips, no new taxes

Bush - I will cut taxes and reduce the deficit

McCain - I can cut taxes and reduce the deficit

In each and every case the republican promised a fairy tale, to buy your vote. You guys believe this fairy tale every single time, even though it's never actually happened. Oh, they will give you the tax cut, they need to pay you for that vote. But they don't follow through on the rest of it, never, ever ever.

Oh, and I forgot. Republicans actually raise taxes too.

AND under every republican president I can think of taxes have been collected, social programs have continued, and in some cases have actually EXPANDED. Under Bush we saw the LARGEST expansion of socialized medicine in modern American history.

No outrage at all when that happened.

I never wanted it. That extra money that came w/ my tax return? That was a bad idea until obama took over.

That was money that was being printed up that didn't exist. Now everyone has to pay for it.

Scott,

The difference is the plans you are talking about were TAX CREDITS, so you had to actually pay taxes to benefit. Obama never seems to want to limit his benefits to people who actually pay taxes.

Again, and I'll repeat, not my point.

My point is that in both cases these people are giving away money that doesn't exist. The net result is higher taxes for everyone, in BOTH cases.

However, it doesn't look like he will get your vote.

Playing Devil's Advocate for a moment, what benefit would your proposal have for the Suburu workers in Kentucky,Honda workers in NC, etc?

Edwin---I know the feeling. But maybe this is what Obama meant during the campaign when he mentioned "leveling the playing field". I think he meant leveling at the poverty level tho'....

I'll bet Obama rubs his hands together every evening, leans back in his leather chair while looking at the ceiling and says "I love it when a plan comes together"....

It won't be much longer now...

(if the first financial tidal wave didn't get them, then the second one will take out the few left standing. Pretty soon they'll all be dependent on my gov't)

Hell, just reduce my taxes by $4,500, why make me buy a piece of @!$%#z vehicle to get it.

No thanks Obamavich! You can keep my money and your @!$%#ttty Governement Motors Vehicle.

We put new rings on the 48 F-3 in the 70's and our gas mileage went from 5 mpg to 25. I 'm looking it over now, and yep, time for new rings.