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ValuJet was reborn as AirTran. Philip Morris rechristened itself Altria. Blackwater became Xe. Would a name change work for beleaguered General Motors?
Don't forget AIG became AIU
#2 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:17 PM EDTGreat idea! GM's bankrupt, so go ahead and start the recovery by spending a billion or so changing signage, stationery, websites, etc. to the new name. Brilliant move....truly brilliant!
BTW, should I give you the "facts" on what I said one at a time over the course of several posts or all at once? We can start with the deficit if you like.
Still waiting.....
Jealous jap car owners!! GENERAL MOTORS #1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gross Misconduct.
Do you mean IOU? Or, UOMe?
hey "NEVER FORGET" what planet do you live on?
This isn't the 60's or 70's, japanese cars are 1000 times better than GM cars ...or any mexican...um... I mean american cars.
Toyota, Honda, and Mitsubishi owners pity GM, Ford & chrysler owners.
Nowadays, many 'jap' cars are actually made right here in the USA, unlike GM's that come from Mexico.
pete-776297 - This isn't the 60's or 70's, japanese cars are 1000 times better than GM cars ...or any mexican...um... I mean american cars.
The reason this occurred deals with Fault Tolerance:
Fact not Opinon:
Fault Tolerance = Quality. Physical Measurement becomes the determination of Quality as stated by American W.E. Deming, ignored by US, praised Internationally.
International Fault Tolerance (GM Opel, Ford AG, DaimlerChrysler AG, Mercedes Benz, BMW, Toyota USA, Honda USA, Nissan USA, Hyundai USA) = .5mm with a goal of .4mm
US Only Specification Fault Tolerance (GM, Ford, Chrysler) = .7mm
This is why US GM, Ford, Chrysler cannot even compete against GM Opel, Ford AG, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, DaimlerChrysler AG, etc.. And you will never be able to buy:
First hand experiences of other posters:
BurnInHell - Sorry but Japanese cars have been blowing away American made for years and years... how come the American companies cannot come up with any innovative designs or decent quality cars? Check out how many recalls there are for serious defects between the Japanese and American car companies, you may be surprised.
And as far as "imports build factories here where the workers get paid Wal Mart wages" that would be a lie. I should now since I worked for Honda several years ago and was paid quite well. Not to mention Japanese workers rarely worry about being laid off (That is just Japanese culture... not to screw over the worker).
For those of you who want to know why Japanese cars are generally of better quality read on...
I know for a fact why Japanese cars have a better quality then American car companies. I have worked in the auto industry for 10 years as a consultant to both American and Japanese auto makers. I am sure there are several factors, but the number one reason why has to do with something known as "fault tolerance". Every part of every car has to be within so many millimeters of the original design. For American car companies the standard is 7mm. Doesn't seem like much... the Japanese have a fault tolerance of 0.5mm. In fact when they first built factories in the USA the went to the USA suppliers and asked for a fault tolerance of 0.5mm and were laughed at. That's when the Japanese brought their suppliers from Japan to the USA and built smaller factories to supply the larger one, because the USA factories couldn't insure that their parts would meet the high standards required.
So I vote no for the bailout...
15.1 - Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:46 AM HST
........................................................................................................................
Roscoe-665493 - I've been in GM Parts for 20 plus and first it was mostly "made in USA" then alot of stuff started to say "made in Canada", not so awful. But then its starts with "made in mexico", then "made in indonesia"...now the bulk of what I handle (and its conciderable) says, yep, you guessed it, "made in china".
This makes me sick to my stomach...
The people in charge of the corporations, the government, they could give a s&*T about our jobs, they're only concern is their bottom line, their pockets.
We're doomed
#12 - Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:54 AM HST
This can be seen at the Dealership Parts Departments.
If you voted for Clinton, your were more than likely a part of this, remember NAFTA, more parts from oversees. More than likely unions bought this whole outsourcing thing on due to cheaper overseas labor, and yes I do agree it is sad. Just waiting for the day we taxpayers call the WHITE HOUSE and get some dude in the Phillipines or Bangladesh as an operator.
You seem to forget that Obama policies are an attempt to reverse what everyone, even the GOP, admits are the disasterously failed policies of the Bush administration. You sit here and state that the job losses and financial system failures are Obama's fault? You should put down the bong .
#3 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:19 PM EDTThe SHEEP can talk B.S. all day long but it doesn't reduce the Human Devastation caused by Bama's failed economic policies
...and the same idiots can continue to push the same failed rhetoric, misinformation and scare tactics in trying to advance their agenda. You guys are consistent, you never let the facts get in the way of your rants and whines.
nice!
TAW, are you a progressive?
HEY EVERYBODY. I think TAW57 is just one of those "drive-by" posters who says inflammatory things and then moves on a fast as possible before anybody can respond to his rhetoric. I think we should all ignore him, and maybe he'll go away.
Good but OLD point, sorry Democrat you cant blame all this mess on Bush anymore...add Clinton and dont forget Carter!!!!
HEY EVERYBODY. I think TAW57 is just one of those "drive-by" posters who says inflammatory things and then moves on a fast as possible before anybody can respond to his rhetoric. I think we should all ignore him, and maybe he'll go away.
And I think you are one of those military wannabes that wear the adjustment strap on their nascar cap too tight and are terminally stuck on stupid. You know the kind I'm talking about, couldn't find their azz with an azz map and an extra pair of hands.
Good but OLD point, sorry Democrat you cant blame all this mess on Bush anymore...add Clinton and dont forget Carter!!!!
and Nixon, and Ford, and Reagan, and Bush 1 and that kind of logic goes on and on and on.....
HEY EVERYBODY. I think TAW57 is just one of those "drive-by" posters who says inflammatory things and then moves on a fast as possible before anybody can respond to his rhetoric. I think we should all ignore him, and maybe he'll go away.
Well where are you "colonel"? I've been waiting for those facts you were going to send over.... did you take your sippy cup and go home?
That's what I thought....
TAW57- You seem to forget that Obama policies are an attempt to reverse what everyone, even the GOP, admits are the disasterously failed policies of the Bush administration.
WRONG. see post 1.46
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31355497/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/
Even the Vice President has said that the White House failed to understand the current situation when they passed the stimulus bill, when they were told to expect repeatedly double digit unemployment.
Even the Vice President has said that the White House failed to understand the current situation when they passed the stimulus bill, when they were told to expect repeatedly double digit unemployment.
The phrase "haste makes waste" comes to mind. Everyone in the country with two brain cells knew Congress should not have passed such a big spending bill with no debate, public comment or even reading it in most cases. Totally irresponsible. Why are we paying them? They should pay us for the privilege of plundering the national treasure.
Dont bother to change it , it stands for Government Motors, and it wont matter because it will go down the drain just like every thing else they try to run.
No one wants the tin can that they will make,it will be a death trap. When will this country wake up and say enough . Every politition needs to go they are all the same.
1.46 is gone. You people need to pay attention and not post to BAMABLOWS, or whatever is current name is. He is going to be deleted and your comments with him.
I would continue to call it for what we have been doing for them.. GM = Gimme Money
#4 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:22 PM EDTbest suggestion so far!!
BM=Bama Mobile
It's time for TESLA to take the helm. The government should merge the two companies and call it Tesla Moters (TM).
#5 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:22 PM EDTGovernment Money
#6 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:23 PM EDTI think Union Auto Works,(UAW), would be appropriate since the whole purpose of the bailout was to save the union, the company was an afterthought.
J.D. Still, Did you happen to look at how many jobs, just not the autoworkers, but the suppliers *whom are non-union* truck drivers, and countless other jobs connected with the auto industry. This was hardly about saving union jobs. If your middle class J.D. YOu might wanna thank the Unions for how much your making. If it wasn't for the Unions, I guarentee you, there would be no Middle class at all. If your not middle class, I understand your anxst. If you are, and you dislike unions, then you too have been led astray by the business friendly republican party. I'd love to call you names, but, I'm not gonna stoop to that level, instead, I'll simply put up exactly what you are, ignorant. Thats what happens when you don't understand history, or, only get one version of it. I have no idea how old you are, but, I'm old enough to remember life when my father worked one job, had 4 children, a wife who stayed at home to watch the kids, and keep up the home, we had vacations, we had toys, we even had a cabin, and my father is an architect. Let's hear from other architects on here, do you make enough money on your own to do these things? (btw, still had two cars, nice home with an actual lot, instead of the postage stamps we get today, etc, oh, and a boat as wel, in fact, two boats.) This isn't about sucking it up and working hard, this is about getting paid a worthwhile wage for a days labor. Between the republican party (right to work supporters, which means right to fire for any reason, no worker protections at all) and corporations, we, "the middle class" have not only gotten no raise in 30 years (ask a ceo if he would continue to work without a bonus or a raise for 12 months..bet he says, screw you, and moves on to greener pastures.) I'm not about redistributing wealth, I'm about keeping the middle class in a decent home, with something to show for all the work they've put out. The redistribution of wealth began more than 30 years ago, when Eisenhower lowered the top tax rate, and continued when Reagan did the same, and now we have Bush lowering it yet again...no wonder our country is going bankrupt. Yes, I'm sure there are spending cuts to be made, but, for the last 30 years, company owners have gotten a raise, (who knows how much?) CEO's, CFO's etc have all gotten raises on the average of over 400% in the last 30 years. Look it up..its true. What I'm truly tired of tho, is the idiots that continue to vote, not only against their own economic benefit, but that fo their children, their grand children etc. Just how selfish are you idiots gonna get before it dawns on you, that your doing it to yourselves??? Well, enough of this rant..I suggest all those ath consider themselves right wing, or conservative do some hard studying. Yeah, I know, thats a liberal pursuit, but its also why, by and large, liberals tend to be a tad smarter, and less violent. Try it, being smart can actually be fun.
It had nothing to do with saving the "UAW" itself as an entity. It was about saving people's jobs....millions & millions of them, including non-union jobs also.
jonq and hardworkinwoman
I like those names by the way. A little about my background so you will know where I'm coming from on this. I grew up in the south, my mother and father were migrant farmers so by extension ,so was i,that's the way that works. When I was old enough I joined the army and was making the grand total of 89 dollars a month but by going to airborne school and volunteering for Vietnam I was able to almost double my pay, (big money! lol!), I stayed in the military for the next quarter of a century, became an officer , got a couple of college degrees,(along with 80% disability due to some dings, scratches and holes I didn't have when I came in ). After the military I worked as an educator at the high school, college and university levels, which required that I become a member of a union. So, I have experience across several spectrums, poverty to comfortable, blue collar to white collar, union and non union .I understand what you mean when you say that the unions have given people good jobs and saved people their jobs, but the point that needs to be made is you can't "save" a job, somebody, somewhere is paying for that job. I have seen it in education, tenured instructors that you can't put in the classroom but you can't fire either , their jobs are "saved" but they are drawing pay and somebody is footing the bill. It's the same in the auto industry, when you lose money on every car you sell because of union legacy costs, you can't make that up with volume sales. The unions have become a dinosaur, an albatros if you will, around the necks of American business, and it's not the automobile industry's or the worker's fault ,cars are being made successfully in non union shops in the south and the accompanying support jobs are still there ,so where does that leave GM, If they don't change and the government does not start subsidizing them as they did for Amtrak in the early 70's ?,(that was just going to be for a "couple of years" , and to this day ,we are still paying for it). I want hard working Americans to have good paying jobs, a good life, and be secure too, I just don't think that can be aquired through unions any longer.
Jeremy of Michigan - Government Money
OUR TAXPAYER MONEY. You know the waitress making minimum wage, with no health care, eating hamburger helper or spagetti o's. Paying for someone elses health care and retirement.
It saved UNION jobs. They could have saved a lot of jobs and the company but they would not have been union jobs anymore nor would the union own Chrysler now.
Tata Motors is the future. So rename GM as "Bodacious Tatas".
#7 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:23 PM EDTWanna Be Ford?
#8 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:24 PM EDTEasy on that one, Ford is close to the woodshed, they will have to pump millions into hurting parts supplier VISTEON to keep them afloat, of course I don't want to see any of our domestic auto manufacturers go away, that is the strength of our country.
Green Motors...no need to change the acronym that way. :)
#9 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:25 PM EDTOM (Obama Motors)-STTPM (Screw The Tax Payer Motors)
#10 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:27 PM EDTYou are insulting (and wrong) and add nothing useful to this conversation.
nothing to do with obama!!
the Obamanocs forget that Bush made the auto bail out at the URGING of Obama as GM said it couldn't wait until 20/01/2009. So Bush again caved to pressure. Now Mr. Obama is again claiming this is a mess he inherited. Does anyone else ever wonder how long Mr. Obama can claim he inherited a mess. At some point the Sheple will have to wake up and realize he (the anointed one) has not only not fixed anything, but in fact, made everything he's touched much worse.
just another led astray moron..what can you do, they listen to people like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Joe Scarborough, beat off to women like Anne Coulter and Michelle Malkin. Its enough to make anyone with a brain sick. So, Obama urged Bush to do the bailout...?? just how much you want to rewrite history you hack. Thats the other thing I absolutely abhor, idiots that don't even know what their own party or president is doing. Go get yoru news from Fox..er..Faux news. geesh..I had no idea that some of our countrymen are this freakin stupid.
It is sooo funny to me that you people continue to blame Obama for all this! Are you really stupid enough to think all this happened over night? Seriously? If you had half a brain you could figure out that a financial mess, such as the one we are all in, did not happen over night. We are in trouble! I guess if you're dumb enough to believe this did all happen over night....or even over the last 6months, I suppose you're also dumb enough to believe it should be able to be fixed over night too. Geez people, use you're heads! Of course things get worse before they get better. That's common sense.
As much as we all whine & complain that our government doesn't take responsibility for their sometimes inadequate policies, we as the general public don't seem to be holding ourselves accountable for any of this mess either. The reality of our situation here is partially our own faults also. How long can a good thing go on? Good things never last forever. We are all oh so happy when we invest our money & get huge returns, but baulk & throw a fit when we lose money...the party's over. This is reality, win some, lose some. We aren't holding ourselves accountable for over-extending our personal budgets, or lack thereof! Come on ppl! Yes, banks gave out bad loans, yes they are greedy....but we are the ones who agreed to mortgage our homes for more than what they were worth & buy $50,000 vehicles we couldn't afford, rack up our credit cards knowing we couldn't afford those either. Yes.....we are just as greedy as the government, banks, auto company's, etc. That's what has become "The American Way!" Capitalism is good within measure. When we let it get out of control, like it is, this is what we end up with. Righy's & Lefty's alike.....WE ARE ALL TO BLAME.
I agree, How is it that Americans have gotten so stupid in the past 20 years. I blame it on not having a life, watching B.S. 24/7 repetitious right wing propoganda. It was actually Bush/Rove that came up with the idea of repeating something long enough and it will self perpetuate into reality.
mrussell24 - How is it that Americans have gotten so stupid in the past 20 years.
US Education, highest paid lowest international results (non competitive). Based on ratings (US near bottom).
See (TV Movie) Harrison Bergeron (1995), if you want a laugh (until it gets serious). Of course in the interest of Education, read the book, same name, by Kurt Vonnegut (1961).
about the movie, Harrison Bergeron (1995), just to tweak your interest, it mentions "the Great Recession" (now) as history. scary huh.
UNION MOTORS. They, and anyone who ever though raising the minimum wage was a good idea, are to blame for this. We have gotten fat and over paid. You only think you need a cell phone, Internet, and cable T.V.... These are luxuries, not needs. If you could afford all of these, and didn't get a college degree or own your own business, you are over paid.
stupid company is stupid company does, still the same ole BS., keep it General Motors. it's been that for over 100 yrs why change it now.?
#11 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:28 PM EDTFinally, some common sense.
That way they will not have to ask Congress for more Taxpayer (our) money to change the signs, stationary, etc..
OM (Obama Motors)-STTPM (Screw The Tax Payer Motors)
#12 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:28 PM EDTB&CSA-Bush and Cheney Screwed America
Democrats and Republicans BOTH screwed america.
Since upto 60% of Gm would be owned by the Treasury Department how about:
Government Motors Corp.
and do all of us tax payers get a return on our investment or maybe even a free car?
#13 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:28 PM EDTGovernment Motors
#14 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:30 PM EDTGone Buy Buy motors the UAE bailout was to much for me.
#15 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:31 PM EDTI would call the company " Emperor Obama Motors"
#16 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:31 PM EDTDBB-destroyed by bush-(i could do this all day and be correct!)
Blame Bush-heck why not,but remember as this man continues to change things he himself is responsible for his own changes....He NOW OWNS Afganistan,thats his...He now owns GM thats his pickle...The recession started in Bush but what happens to it now is your fellas deal...I DID live through and paid taxes durning Carter-he is a DUMB@$$ and still is. We called it stagflation back then and we had a misery index-which I see right over the hill...Carter dragged the recession longer than it needed to be,and this will happen now as well...Started in Bush ,yes,and America is bankrupt in Obamma-his errors and his mistakes...ALONE
As for VietNam-Started in Kennedy,escallated in Johnson (he told his wife he didnt know what to do but send more men over)and my my Nixon the terrible got us out.....Remember wars are waged on the backs of poor mens sons...
brad-530094 - wrong. DBUAW. See post#1.46 about what GM, Chrysler are doing/have been doing to escape the UAW costs:
If you read the transcripts of the Congressional Hearings. Their "Restructuring Plans", close 1/3 US Plants, Layoff 1/3 US "Work Force" while retaining the Toluca, Mexico; Machau, China and Shanghai, China Factories/Plants and associated "Work Force" to become "economically viable". The cost to implement the "Restructuring Plans" is 150 Billion USD + the 17.4 Billionthat they already recieve. Not counting the 25 Billion they received on September 2008 (used to build more factories overseas, "retool").
The factories that were built overseas are modern 2000s fully computer controlled automated robotic factories using US current technology. That could NOT be built in the US due to the opposition from the Labor Unions thru Congressional Lobbists and Campaign Contributions (93 Million USD, not counting the State Congressional Representatives). This occurredpreviously during the 1980s when the US Military wanted to build a prototype fully automated ammunition plant, minimize risk to human life, increase output, increase consistent quality (measured by Fault Tolerance, calibrated lasers, measurements not visible to human eye). Due to US Labor opposition thru Congress the US Military built the prototype fully automated ammunition plant at South Korea (better than Canadian Match Grade Ammunition, consistent high quality, plant runs 24/7, 365). After this technology was declassified the US Industry attempted to use this in the US, and again met harsh opposition. After the US Automakers obtained this technology they asked Congress for Bailout Money to "retool". This was met with Union Tactics (including violence). The US Automakers gave in and left the US. First, building fully automated factories (manufacturing not parts assembly plants) at Toluca, Mexico. With vehicles being fully assembled at the nearby Assembly Plant(s) and shipped by train and truck to the US for the Made In US label to be affixed (this is legal due to US Code, Law)(this was previously done at Ontario, Canada). Second, The US Automakers pushed Congress thru Lobbyists for the passage of the Free Trade Agreements, pre 1994. With 1994 NAFTA being ratified. Third, After the passage of the Asian Free Trade Agreements, GM, Ford, Chrysler built (using US Bailout Money) Parts Manufacturing Factories at Machau, China. The Chinese were at first ecstatic, then they realized that these factories were fully automated and did not hire very many Chinese (if any, since the computers were controlled/maintained by Indians (from India)). To increase employment, the Chinese Government built 1900s Labor Intensive Feeder Plants to provide raw materials; resulting in massive pollution, cross contamination, lead and heavy metal poisoning, etc.. Fourth, Eventually, as GM, Ford, Chrysler were getting into economic trouble, another Bailout was asked for and receivedresulting in the building of the second fully automated factory at Shanghai, China. Fifth, After the successes of GM, Ford, Chrysler at Toluca, Mexico and Machau, China, most US Manufacturing followed them and built fully automated factories at Shanghai, China. The Chinese Government response was to build more 1900s Labor intensive raw material feeder plants.
Sixth, Due to the building of GM, Ford, Chrysler products external to the US (Foreign) the US Military could not "Buy US Only Products, Goods, and Services" from GM, Ford, Chrysler and had to reopen the "Cold War" Era (1950s-1990s) Nationwide Dispersed (Cold War Nuclear Threat) Government Owned Government Operated Factories to build the pre 1990s Designed (current) US Military Equipment to support Iraq. Resulting in Economic Booms in the nearby communities. These will be closed under BRAC, Base Realignment and Closure, after Iraq. This will result in economic busts, like what happened to the communities around the 14 US Military Installations closed during the President Clinton Reduction In Forces (RIFs), that have still not recovered from as of 06142009.
The reasons why the Germans, Japanese, Koreans came to the US and built Manufacturing was NOT what people think (Greed, profits). It was their way paying the US Citizens back for saving them after WWII and Korean War from starving to death as children. The US established US Military Governments to govern and rebuild, under the Marshall Plan, MacArthur Plan, etc.. These US Military Governments (not Civilian) established Laws to prevent starvation, see "Graves of the Fireflies", "Tae Guk Gi". Later, these WWII survivors as adults became the heads of Government, Industry, etc.. They were trained by American W.E. Deming (14 Points, Fault Tolerances = Quality, Reinvesting, and other Business Practices), W.E. Deming was scorned by US Industry and even discredited by GM. They as German, Japanese, Korean CEOs believed in giving the US Citizens a "handup" (work) and not a "handout" (welfare). So they built many factories in the US at: California, Oregon, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, New Mexico, Arizona, Louisiana, Ohio, Mississippi, Kentucky, Alabama, Georgia, Nevada, Virginia, Indiana (2008), etc.. The profits from sales remain in the US and reinvested as learned in US Business School, taught by American W.E. Deming. example: Dec 2008, Honda Indiana Plant/Factory. 2009 Toyota, Mississippi Plant/Factory. versus GM, Ford, Chrysler, 2009, closure 1/3 US Plants, layoff 1/3 US "Work Force" while retaining Machau, China; Toluca, Mexico and Shanghai, China Plants/Factories these foreign plants/factories were built using previous US Bailout Money. Reason that they will do this is to become "economically viable" irregardless of the effect to the US. The cost to implement the 2009 Restructuring Plans is approximately 150 Billion USD +17.4 Billion USD. The causalities will be more of US Citizens, unemployed.
Sadly, the next Generation of German, Japanese, Korean, CEOs have stated (in writing, based on their US Business School Training) that they are planning on leaving the US to move to China. The current CEOs are fighting them tooth and nail. Unfortunately, the current CEOs are losing due to the anti foreign US investment sentiment in the US, just like when Lebanese (escaped to Mexico), Carlos "Slim" Helu (at the time richest man in world), left the US, resulting in Sears Holdings, KMart, CompUSA, etc. failures. The first predicted indicator of US Economic Failure was CompUSA (Technology Store, not an appliance store (Circuit City, Best Buy), March 2008).
These are just my observations, first hand experiences, interviews based on my US Military Training With Industry (TWI). Without emotions, it is simple Cause + Effect = Results.
Now that the United Auto Workers will likely own big stakes of General Motors and Chrysler (possibly 39% of GM and 55% of the latter) some very thorny questions arise.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2009/05/chrysler_gm_and.html
we should all be replaced with robots
GM a name change?
At first I thought yeah, why not? Even thought of a decent name that would keep the "GM" in GM. Genesis Motors.
Then, after reading some of these posts, doing some more thinking & REMEMBERING about GM's influence on a lot of negative things surrounding them. Thoughts of GM's poor management decisions over the years.
Thoughts of government being influenced by self serving insurance companies stacking the deck in their biased favor to over regulate auto makers causing increased costs being passed down to the consumer. Remember the cool breeze from a wing vent? Remember the choice of wearing a seat belt? Remember people not being killed & injured from airbags? Insurance companies appear to be regulating the government? I didn't vote for them, did you?
Almost forgot to mention about insurance companies, stealing away more of our choices, while absconding with more of our money for over priced coverage while failing, hesitating, neglecting to pay legitimate claims. Or, shorting thier claims coverages. Isn't absolutely amazing, when the insurance companies say so, you're magically cured because they say so to your doctor? Insurance companies & their lobbyists? - Line them up & shoot them twice in a place of your choosing. We'd all be better off with out them.
Those things along with over zealous unions, that achieved their original purpose & abused it, are also to blame for sadly lacking U.S. made automobiles. Just as tenured teachers as mentioned in anothers earlier post, the unions keep the sometimes incapable, untrainable & unscrupulous workers employed. Nepotism is another factor involved with the unions. The real stories I could tell on that one would fill volumes.
Just as someone else mentioned, living in MI too, stated that the fatal outcome could be seen as early as the 1970's. Egos inflated, all powerful automakers didn't listen to consumers & their needs then anymore than they do now. The obvious results were steadily building & are here now. "Bottom lines" involving only money usually end up on the bottom from my experience. That's the reason behind the influx of foreign made vehicles.
Building spec vehicles, just like building spec homes involves a lot of money & risk. Thinking, if we build it, they will buy it, doesn't always work when the end result is usually overpriced crap that doesn't meet a customers needs. With "new" vehicles sitting on dealers lots from 2005 should say something to them. It does to me.
After all of that. Rename GM? Why? Why waste the time & money on something that will not influence the outcome? Only an affordable well made vehicle will ever change the outcome of GM. A name won't change the outcome one iota. God knows, over the years GM's been called many names. Why change it now? Basically hiding behind a new name won't change anything about the past unless the company itself changes for the better. And, even then, why?
P.S.
Brad, Replaced by robots? Little late. I think some of have been robotized already. Especially most of our leaders & at least half of the general public just doing things w/o knowing or thinking of why. Thinking of down the road, usually ends at the end of their noses. Short road is the best one?
Why not leave it @ "GM" - Government Motors.
#17 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:31 PM EDTI agree , since government own 80% of gm call it GOVERNMENT MOTOR that a good name . PEOPLE MOTOR (PM)
the Government should not have any thing to do with it(Gm or Chy) let them chips fall where they fall. Hell the Government can't even take care of there own problems and they have no right to tell any business what to do. STAY OUT of Non Government Business
Because these guys are the majority not the US Government.
Now that the United Auto Workers will likely own big stakes of General Motors and Chrysler (possibly 39% of GM and 55% of the latter) some very thorny questions arise.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2009/05/chrysler_gm_and.html
I think the name (GM) should stay as part of tradition. However, the acronym should mean Gross Mismanagement.
#18 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:32 PM EDTDC Motors why not. The government owns it and DC needs to change its image from Drug Culture to Decent Cars.
#19 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:32 PM EDTBecause these guys are the majority not the US Government.
Now that the United Auto Workers will likely own big stakes of General Motors and Chrysler (possibly 39% of GM and 55% of the latter) some very thorny questions arise.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2009/05/chrysler_gm_and.html
Yeah. They should be called American Traitors, American Corruption or American Losers or American Wimps or the most appropriate name American Theives.
#21 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:32 PM EDTJaded. I switched to Toyota for quality and economy in the 80's.
#22 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:33 PM EDTJust in case you didn't notice, toyota has had more recalls than even FORD has
I would never buy anything from the junk makers
H-D-78109
Just in case you didn't notice, toyota has had more recalls than even FORD has
I would never buy anything from the junk makers.
You bought from the Chinese:
Roscoe-665493 - I've been in GM Parts for 20 plus and first it was mostly "made in USA" then alot of stuff started to say "made in Canada", not so awful. But then its starts with "made in mexico", then "made in indonesia"...now the bulk of what I handle (and its conciderable) says, yep, you guessed it, "made in china".
This makes me sick to my stomach...
The people in charge of the corporations, the government, they could give a s&*T about our jobs, they're only concern is their bottom line, their pockets.
We're doomed
#12 - Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:54 AM HST
This can be seen at the Dealership Parts Departments.
Instead of buying from Americans at:
They as German, Japanese, Korean CEOs believed in giving the US Citizens a "handup" (work) and not a "handout" (welfare). So they built many factories in the US at: California, Oregon, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, New Mexico, Arizona, Louisiana, Ohio, Mississippi, Kentucky, Alabama, Georgia, Nevada, Virginia, Indiana (2008), etc.. The profits from sales remain in the US and reinvested as learned in US Business School, taught by American W.E. Deming. example: Dec 2008, Honda Indiana Plant/Factory. 2009 Toyota, Mississippi Plant/Factory.
see post 14.3 as to why these Foreign CEO are taking the economic hits in the US and refusing to leave (motives dealing with WWII, Korean War, Marshall Plan, MacArthur Plan).
Imagine Motors
#23 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:33 PM EDTWhy not leave it at "GM" - stands for Government Motors!!
#24 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:33 PM EDTstudebaker
#25 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:34 PM EDTEDSIEL, thats the name.
It will still be BAU with GM. They can change their name, but will they change their buisness practices? Only time will tell.
#26 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:34 PM EDTSame selfish workers - UAW. UAW has no problem producing a subpar product all the while asking for more pay and benefits thru strong arm tactics. No they have succeeded with Baracks help in stealing even more outrageous money from the REAL hardworking Americans. That should anger every other American in this country that is NOT standing in line for a handout? But until America gets angry enough to say enough is enough to all these theives in D.C. they will continue to steal from hardworking Americans and their children.
the companys ran them into the ground not the workers-the company asked for bailout not the workers!!!without unions we would all be working for a buck a day with no skills to offer-no working conditions-back to child labor you morons
haahaaa yeah, all Americans, we all owe the union workers? That is my point exactly, we Americans are tired of hearing the whining union working telling all us real, hardworking Americans how much we owe them. UAW is nothing more than a leach on real, taxpaying American workers. What makes you think UAW is better than other Americans? You people are so transparent. Selfish crybabies. Go get a real job and stop complaining and demanding bailouts from other hardworking Americans.
What is the largest controllable expense in a busines?
you wanna know something Oldaz..you couldn't keep up with a union worker..and, I'll go ya one better, if you think you can, go see if you can go out on a union pipefitter, auto plant worker, electrician, plumber, lineman..wanna know something moron..guess what companies get the largest contracts? go on,,,guess..its the one's that employ union labor..wanna know why? because, dingleberry, they are constantly improving their knowledge and skill level in an ever changing world. I've been Union for 20 years, my wife for 15, and I'm here to tell you, we both have college education, we both are hard workers, and we both wanted more for our family. Couldn't have done it without the Union. You want to mess with the Union..fine..but get educated, not on stereotypes you moron, but on the real Union as it is today. Gone are the days of Hoffa, right now, the best educated worker you can get is...UNION! The best paid..UNION..The best benefits..UNION. Now, since I'm middle class, and I want to do the best I can for my family, I chose to work Union. If you didn't, and are blaming the Union for your lousy benefits, or lousy workplace environment, or any other job related thing, then you can just look in the mirror..you could have joined, you still can. We'll take anyone, and we'll turn them into productive workers, that are well paid, have good benefits, and a reasonable lifestyle. If you don't like Unions...then I suggest you go down to your local Union hall, and find out why. If your just parroting the party line..then you should shut the hell up. There are alot of Union brothers and sisters out there that don't want to hear your guff...Trust me on this. Here are some industries that would fail almost immediately without Unions...Airplane Manufacturers, almost all shipbuilders, all defense contractors, most auto plants, big trucking lines, trash services, longshoreman, etc, etc, etc. Your picking on a lot of people that would otherwise not make the money necessary to both do the job they are doing, and live in the area where its necessary..think before you open that yap..please, stop using stereotypes, it does nothing but make you look incredibly stupid.
you are the best example why unions are worthless. On second thought, maybe unions had a purpose - to give you unemployables some employment.
jonqpubic, do you really believe that B.S.???!!! Unions brought about the middle class at the beginning of the LAST century. Since then, these slower than postal worker have increasingly brought down America. What blue color worker with 20 years gets 150K plus the best insurance anyone can get. I worked on union jobs while in college. I have never seen such self gratification and low output in my life. Anytime you take the fear of being fired away, you get the worst of anyone.
Oldaz,
We aren't exactly what I'm sure you & your "kind" like to believe we are. Alot of us are very educated, I myself with a Masters and many others around me with the same. We are not all lazy people either like you would love to believe. Jealousy is a nasty, nasty characteristic of a human. The UAW didn't ask for money, we don't choose what is produced. Stop blaming us for everything. Find a new scapegoat for once. Better yet, educate yourself on what unions are really about instead of listening to the like of union bashing people who also have no clue. Look in the mirror....what kind of person speaks on a subject they have no knowledge of without researching it first? A lazy one.
As for being selfish....you have absolutely no right to call me or anyone else selfish. I don't think I'm owed anything, nor am I anywhere near being selfish. You'd be amazed at the charitable contributions that union workers make, helping build homes for Habitat for Humanity, giving for poor families at Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, etc. We are normal, regular people with hearts just like other non-union workers. You should appreciate the money that others can make, including your neighbor, sister, brother, etc. We should all want people to be able to be better & have better than what they do. We aren't all about me, me, me. That's actually one of the strongest values of being in a union. We are all for 1 & 1 for all. I would love, love, love for my friends & family to be able to make a better wage & provide better for their family's. Some of my other friends & family make much more than me & I'm very happy for them. We aren't bad people!
Please take your stereotypes somewhere else. They make you sound ignorant.
Believe what you want. Americans do not believe you work a hard days work for a fair wage. Proove it and do it like most other Americans without being in a union. You don't have to be in union to do charitable works. Is it because you are in a union, if so, that just says alot about you. Lots of Americans build, paint and repair houses etc. for the needy and ederly and they are not or never will be union. They don't have to to build a rep, they do it because they care. Maybe if you guys started making your management accountable then americans wouldn't think you are no different than Wallstreet. Unions should not get a bailout, nor do they deserve one any more than the non union painter or pipefitter or electrician etc. Instead you and UAW think that other hard working americans owe you bailouts from their hard earned money. Get over yourself and stop hiding behind your arrogant veiwpoint of yourselves - you are no better than any other american, so stop acting like you are.
the companys ran them into the ground not the workers-the company asked for bailout not the workers!!!without unions we would all be working for a buck a day with no skills to offer-no working conditions-back to child labor you morons
The Unions had their purpose "back in the day". But not after the Federal and State Labor Laws. This is 2009; not the 1920s-1960s. This is not to degrade the contribution of the Labor Unions since they were directly responsible for forcing the passage of the Federal and State Labor Laws.
Do you really believe that (violent) Union Tactics, Job Banks, Work Rules, etc. have a place in a competitive business. Rhetorical Question.
Can you honestly say with clear conscience that it is fair for a Taxpayer, Waitress, with no health care, no retirement, eating spagetti o's or hamburger helper, minimum wage, paying for someone else's retirement and lifetime health care.
mrussell24 - Unions brought about the middle class at the beginning of the LAST century.
What really brought about the "Middle Class" was the pre WWII Industrialization of the United States in support of the Lend Lease Act (to England and Russia). And the massive WWII Industrialization during the War. This was in spite of the innumerable small strikes called by shop stewards and local union leadership. Especially, the Mine Workers 12 day strike in 1943 (realize many USN Ships were still old "coal burners"). Eventhough the Unions pledged not to strike (no strike pledge) during WWII to support President Roosevelt. Congress of Industrial Organizations (CIO) American Federation of Labor (AFL), United Auto Workers (UAW), during the War (WWII).
Credit where credit is due.
Note most of this industrialization was not private and had a US Military Supervisory Representative from the War Department (now known as the Department Of Defense). Much later out of necessity the US Government created Government Owned Government Operated Factories and Assembly Plants (GOGOs, run by US Military) and Government Owned Contractor Operated (GOCOs, must still have a US Military Representative). These were later dispersed nationwide during the "Cold War" (1950s-1990s) to prevent destruction by (USSR) Nuclear Weapons. These are in existence today to manufacturer the current (pre 1990s designed) US Military Equipment. The locations were classified during WWII, and the Cold War. After the Cold War (1990s) you could receive a tour. After 9/11 they were reclassified due to the Terrorist Threat.
First of all Oldaz, you don't know the 1st thing about me! Stop judging when you have NO freakin clue of what you're speaking about. Are you really that ignorant....actually you're not even ignorant....plain stupid would be more appropriate! I was pointing out to you that we aren't all selfish ppl. That was the point of my talks about charitable endeavors, etc. Not to get a pat on the back. And no, I myself don't do anything charitable because I'm in a union. Not that I owe it to you, but I'll share this info with you anyway. I'm almost 30, I've only worked with the UAW for 3yrs. Before that I worked in social work. I was an Area Director for The Boys & Girls Clubs for about 6yrs. I'm sure you've heard of that organization. I am an educated, hard working woman. I've always been involved in community partnerships, projects, etc since I was 12 or 13yrs old. I am PASSIONATE about helping ppl, I always have been. When I finally finish my last degree, my career will be in social work. So don't even go there with me! I only went to GM because it was good money & I could afford school as well as everyday bills.
As for thinking I'm owed anything.....you my dear are sadly mistaken. I've held a job since I was 9yrs old, bought my own vehicles, insurance, clothing, etc. I also paid my own way through college minus what I got for earning an Academic Honors Diploma in HS & the great grades I received. I've NEVER in my life asked for any hand-out, never thought I'm owed anything (except an apology here or there). I prolly could have tried to ask, but my parents wouldn't have done it for me anyway. I grew up poor. We were taught to work for what we have, period! And for the record, the UAW didn't even ask for the loan, the company did. Check your facts next time.
I'm so sick & tired of hearing ppl bad mouth unions this & unions that. Ya know there are bad & good apples anywhere you go. And yes there are some bad ones in the union too. But who am I, or you to judge? You say I need to get off my high horse & stop being so arrogant but I'm far from arrogant & I don't own any horses....I want kids before I buy those. You can continue to point your finger, but it really doesn't change anything. Nor can I make you believe that I do work hard at my job, or anyone else for that matter. But I invite you to take a tour of GM, or Chrysler sometime. I think you'd be surprised at what you see. I know everyone thinks these jobs are so easy, I thought it too before I got there. And sure, there are some easy jobs there, mostly held by high seniority employees not me. I will also invite to come to work with me one day, you are more than welcome to anytime. Then you may judge what I do, but only until you walk a day in my shoes can you say I don't work hard for my money because I know I do.
They should change it.
#27 - Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:34 PM EDTYou're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead. |
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