Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.comPresident Barack Obama could not let General Motors fail, but he will not concede he is taking over a company that once symbolized U.S. industrial might.
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What a mess this country is in.
But I'm glad we have some brains in the White House to sort out this crap.
LU, you just don't see what is going on do you? This administration is stepping in where they do not belong. Our government has no business doing what they are doing to the car companies. Do you honestly think that a President can tell a corporation to fire their boss? Obama did it. Do you think our government should tell a corporation to close most of their dealerships? Obama did it. He says he wants nothing to do with running GM but he is putting his people in to do it. This President is at war with capitalism. Capitalism is what makes this country great. And not just capitalistic corporations with union workers. All of us make this country work and we do much better with the government out of our way.
Our President speaks very well but you have to listen close to what he is saying. I don't think he is being honest about his vision of America.
I was trying to figure out how far we have moved toward Socialism since January. You know what economic system is out past that....
We've gotten so close to a command-and-control economy that calling it communism is only a formality now.
Funny how conservatives weren't saying this when Regan was controlling banks. This is a temporary measure, people. I know your concerns and share then, to a pint. If the government is still owning GM in 2012, I will consider voting against Obama. Until then, what he's doing isn't a novel idea. If it's quick-in, quick-out, the country will be better off for Obama having done this. If it becomes a quagmire, you will be right. At this point, it's too eary to tell.
Something: how do you know it is only temporary? Has the federal government provided a fixed date by which its shares in these companies must be sold? Not that I'm aware of. So GM could be a government owned company for a long, long time. Unless the new GM hits its products out of the ballpark, I don't see too many investors lining up to take the risk in GM again.
I am not sure the 80's banking crisis is quite as apt since those banks went into receivership under the auspices of the FDIC, not some Presidentially appointed White House auto czar. My chief complaint is that GM/Chrysler should have just gone ahead and filed bankruptcy last year, instead of taking billions in government money and then still filing now. Also, bear in mind that there are hundreds of banks. There are only a handful of automakers. So rescuing a single bank out of hundreds will have fewer anti-competitive effects than rescuing an automaker where the distortions in the marketplace are going to be more pronounced (as well as the government's potential risk of unfairly competing against Ford).
ChrisMcK
I agree with you that the bailout was a bad idea. I also agree that giving them more money now could turn out to be a classic example of throwing good money after bad. I further agree that this may measure may not be short-lived. I should have worded my posting better. Where I disagree with some posters is the contention that this is intended to be long-term, that the government wants to run this company. I think this plan could fail; but the plan is for the government to divest itself ASAP.
When has our government ever done Quick in Quick out unless it was Bill Clinton in the newly named Ovarian office.
JOKER and a Mid Night -T
It happened with the S&L bailouts of the late 80's. It can be done. Please understand, in no way do I see it as a foregone conclusion. I merely think it can be done and done right. I'm willing to give every administration a chance before I pronounce judgment. I believe that's the most reasonable attitude to take since we won't be able to pronounce judgment on Obama until 2012 anyway.
Yeah will if you look at recent history and our congress they and there over site have been a large failure. There is only room for improvement, its the old theory when your number one there is only one way to go. With our Congress and there bi-partisan conflictive interest leadership and YES coruption and when your at the the bottom, there is only pretty much one why to go. I wonder if congress could actually answer that question.
Oh by the way the S&L bailouts of the late 80's this was hint of things to come and our government and congress sat back did Jack it was Enron and then this Mess - Sometimes I really wonder what they do accomplish effectively - except cover-ups.
JOKER and a Mid Night -T
If you're mad at all the crap going on and want to blame it on ineffective government, I'm right there beside you. The question is how to move forward. I suggest taking a good look at the past; seeing what worked and what didn't; and trying to do it better. I agree with you that more of the same won't work.
Something new please, I realize you are trying to be optomistic. But, Our government has never taken an equity control in a private company in our history. They will now own AIG and GM and the Tax payer is on the hook for not only the ill concieved bailouts but for the day to day running of this company. Obama has grown the Government larger than it has ever been in our history. A government created job is not a job created because it is paid for by the Tax payer. The jobs now at GM are going to be paid for by the Tax payer. This is by its very definition Socialism!! Congress has a bill before them now that can place a government official on the board of any financial firm even if the have not taken a bailout. They can place a government official on the board of any company that has taken a bailout or even a Tax incentive. Nearly all large companies in the United States have taken tax incentive's to open their doors and create jobs. I believe your faith in this man is ill advised! Our country is great because of our freedoms that are rapidly disappearing with this Administration. Bush left us a deficit at the end of 2008 that was 42% of the GDP. It was until now the worst deficit in history. The deficit is growing at such huge percent under Obama that according to the Federal Budget office, and the Financial Times Our deficit will Triple by the end of this year. And by the end of 10 years it will be 84% of the GDP and our country will be bankrupt. 5 years after that our Deficit will be 100 % of the GDP. Our country could come to a halt Marshall law could be in effect because our dollar would no longer have any value. Obama has these reports yet he is unrelenting and continuing to spend. Bush was irresponsible but Obama is a disaster! I'm glad you are reading about it so read some more and educate yourself. Obama is a Socialist or perhaps a Communist. Is that what you voted for??
JH-479998, All of what GM is doing now, closing dealerships, closing plants, laying off 21,000, was what they said they would do last year when they appeared before congress. So I don't see how you can say the President forced them to do it. A fact I just saw on TV tonight, is that Toyota has less than 2000 dealerships, compared to GM's over 6000, GM also has twice as many plants, yet they are tied in sales.
Superlogi,
I gues that's where now and then differ. Back then, it was accepted to close the underperforming. Today you have the underperforming screaming just as loud as the deserving.
I watch day after day, post after post, article after article. Obama gets the ramrod for helping the auto industry. The he gets ramroded for not doing enough. You and others say that he has spent too much money helping the auto industry while there are just as many feeling as thought they got screwed because they lost (or are losing) their jobs. Just look at post #2.
All of this is coming fro the U.S. Taxpayer.
I really wonder what the conservatives would have done. By all standards it would have been nothing.
Ford Motor Co. is soooo screwed by this deal.
1. The government will now only buy GM brand vehicles for their fleets. This was a lucrative part of Fords business.
2. Any time sales lag the government can offer tax incentives to consumers who purchase GM products.
3. The UAW has a never ending source of money (US taxpayers) to subsidize their unrealistic pensions, benefits, and wages.
4. The government can fund R & D for GM to develop the next generation of autos.
The automobiles of the 50s, 60s & 70s were iconic symbols of the US car industry. However, as people so conveniently forget, the 70s brought gas rationing in the US. No one learned a darn thing from that. That was the actual beginning of the end for large, greedy, gas guzzlers, but the American auto industry continued to make ever larger, ever greater gas consuming vehicles. Yes, the public loves their SUVs, 4x4 trucks, and other ridiculously large vehicles in which people from 3rd world countries could house themselves & 20 others, while we utilize these vehicles for the sole purpose of transporting just ONE PERSON (the driver) for short distances to and from the upscale grocery store to pick up carbonated, bottled water. Americans are GREEDY. They think they are the only people on this earth entitled en masse to drive these types of vehicles, thereby using up more than half the total supply of petrol and creating 3 times the amount of carbon in the atmosphere. They have equipped their chariots with televisions, DVDs, phones and everything else they could possibly need for a 15 minute trip around the block. Ridiculous behavior. Detroit automakers are only partially to blame here. The consumers bought into this petrol party and the US government can share in the blame too for refusing to act up until now to enforce reduced gas consumption.
double post
The best term I've heard to describe this bailout, among others I might add, is "Economic Vietnam". The analogy to Vietnam is brilliant. A quagmire of ever increased government involvement, ultimately doomed to failure. Had GM just been allow to fail without the government sticking their noses into it, my guess is within 4-5 years the new lean, mean, GM would have emerged as the new business model for auto makers. Now we'll have a heavily subsidised company making cars nobody wants, especially since the government will dictate what cars will be made.
JH-479998
Weird, I think Bush and the Repubs voted for the first bailout as history will show. Marxist Bush welcomes you all.
Boehner should not limit this administration's capabilities based on his own or his party's own limitations. This administration has performed pretty well to this point and has virtually handed the Republicans their heads on virtually every front.
Republicans: We know it is frustrating. We know these economic actions rub directly against your grain and what you are used to. But here is one reality for you: you have under estimated the man every single time you have confronted him. You call him stupid, socialist, Odumbo, and other words I will not repeat... yet he continues to thrive and come out smelling like a rose EVERY time. Think about it.
So, not to pretend to tell you how to do your business, but you might do much better by first assuming he is very good chess player and plays 5 to 10 moves ahead of your best player. If you assume that he has a purpose for all he does, you may actually be able to anticipate a move or two and make some real gains. If you assume he is just stupid, you will continue to lose.
Just a thought. OK, you can tell me what an idiot I am for drinking his Koolaid, etc., etc., etc. Good luck with that.
Somethingnewplease 1.4 - You say this is not novel? Please tell me anytime in American history where the govt. bought private industry? If you look at history, when a president tried to take over the steel mills earlier in this century, it was found illegal. This is why I can't understand why businesses are not complaining more, although some states are starting to assert their rights under the 10th Amend.
The only place where we have seen this type of activity is in USSR, Nazi Germany, and any other fascist countries. Do you know that the Volkswagen Beetle was the govt's? It was actually first called the "folk's vagen" - the people's wagon. Do some research. Soon you will have the Obama mobile - look up what the Volt looks like. It's small and ugly, and just like people didn't and don't buy Bugs in droves, they won't buy those cars either.
And no president EVER told a business to fire the CEO nor did one dole out favors to a group that helped elect him. Why do you think the unions have been favored? Normally the bondholders' interests were take precedent because that is the way the law works. They are a creditor who has precedent in a BK, just like a mortgage company's interests are before a bank who made an unsecured loan to a person. But because the unions helped Obama, he has to pay them back. Oh, we hear that their pensioners would lose vision and dental or some benefits, etc. Well, tell me - what makes the union more special than any other retiree? Retirees all the time lose health insurance or face a reduction in benefits. What about all the retirees who are losing money because they bonds they held have been rendered worthless in favor of the union, whose interests should be subservient.
What about payback to ACORN? They helped elect him and despite their shady dealings, etc., they are being asked to help with the CENSUS and given money.
More payback? What about Obama's cap-and-trade? Gee, ever heard of the Chicago Climate Exchange that trades carbon credits? Al Gore has plenty to gain because he has a company that trades on it. Obama was on the board of a foundation that started this company and has friends, I believe, who are in high places. He's not interested in energy independence or else he would be allowing drilling, natural gas exploration, nuclear plants, etc. He is concerned with some stupid ideal and paying back those who hold the same ideal. And everybody always cried about alleged "payback" by Bush and Cheney to their oil friends and Haliburton - doesn't this kind of sound the same?
Another example - SEIU helps him in California. In an effort to balance the budget and reduce expenses, Cal. legisl. tries to cut what home-health care workers are paid. (If you Google, you will see that apparently they are paid very well.) Now, in my mind, in this economy, I would be happy just to have a job and would rather take a paycut than face no job when the state goes bust. But, no, they contact Obama and what does he do? Threaten Cal. with withholding their stimulus money if they go through with that plan. Again, why is the SEIU any better than any other group, other than the fact they helped O get elected? What about the other people losing jobs and facing cuts in Cal.?
And no president EVER controlled or owned banks - yes, we own a bank by virtue of the stock that has been issued. That's what stock is - an ownership interest. You are confusing regulation over banking industry with what Obama has done. What right does Obama have to tell banks they can't pay back money? What right does O's administration have to say over what salaries can be and asserting the right to look at the books of banks that didn't take money and are healthy? In fact, there was a bank who was perfectly healthy who tried to refuse the money. To make a long story short, under threat of a long, public audit process, the bank ended up taking the money and having to issue a new class of stock to give the govt. - just so they could have an ownership interest in the bank.
There are so many other things I can think of. There is NO OTHER president who has behaved this way, whether Democrat or Repubican. If you are not just taking your statement off the Democratic rhetoric list, please tell me what Reagan did that you feel was controlling banks similar to what O is doing or anything close to the aforementioned instances that another president has done?
May I suggest you find some documentaries about Hitler so you see that the greater parallel between leaders is between Obama and the Nazis/Hitler in the 30's, not past presidents whether they be Reagan or anyone else. If you have On Demand, find the section for world and history and go to the National Geo channel and find the documentary about his rise to power, or get on NetFlix and find documentaries about Nazis and Hitler. It's very scary how similar his rise to power was in terms of hard economic times, charisma. The only part of that story yet to come to fruition is where Obama gets the legislature to grant him all sorts of powers such that he eventually can consolidate all power in himself, just like Hitler did. I am not saying he is going to start sending people off to camps, but this country could end up with the same oppressive regime that controls everything and doesn't allow any opposing speech.
Let's just say, somethingnewplease, that when you stop seeing dissenting opinions on places like Newsvine, I would become very afraid.
BLD,, So you listen to Rush and believe everything he accuses Obama of? According to him (and you), EVERYTHING Obama has done is either for a kickback or for some other immoral or illegal reason. You have listed quite a bit... NONE of which has been shown to be true.
Instead, might YOU have been the one seriously mislead by the Republican party? I can see that it might be pretty easy to swallow all these evil doings since he's a black radical leftist not born in the U.S. with questionable religious beliefs and is a hedonistic baby killer. But he's okay aside from that, right?... Give me a break!
You guys are so full of yourselves and your totally unfounded conspiracy theories that you are on the virge of damning your party to absolute failure.
Ever consider that you may be wrong with all these accusations and hate?
As just one example: You ever volunteer and do any work with ACORN? I have. The people I worked with helped restore homes for people in New Orleans and worked every waking hour. They "employ" just about anyone that is willing to help and may not manage their daily activities as well as a Republican, but their intent is golden. They do not follow the Republican creed of greed.
The rest of your post doesn't deserve any response. It all originated from FOXnews or Rush or Hannity, so we'll just consider the source. Besides, the more foolishness the right spews, the lower their numbers get... but I guess you know that already.
LMarcT - 1.23 - I don't listen to Rush and besides, what I am saying is based on my own research and reading and what I learn from a friend who lives in California. It doesn't originate with Rush or Hannity. Furthermore, who cares what the source is if it is true? I can point to cites for everything I have said. Can you tell me none of my assertions are true? Had you even heard about any of this, e.g., the SEIU and Californiat? (Oh, and if you don't listen to Rush or Hannity, then how do you know these things came from there? The Democratic liberals tell you so? Talk about someone who only follows what they are told....)
Have you ever read or seen any documentaries about Hitler and his rise to power? It is creepy to see the throngs of adoring people who followed him because - as the Nat Geo special said - he convinced them "he was the one" who could help Germany. Sound familiar? Oh, they had people like me who were skeptical but their voices weren't strong enough to ward off the problem before it was too late.
Can you give me any examples of any similar actions that other presidents have taken similar to anything that Obama has done? You can't, can you? If you think I am so wrong, please tell me why - don't just throw out ad hominem attacks. Give me facts.
BLD, Fair enough. I personally listen to Hannity pretty often and, on occasion, I listen to Rush and much of what you refer to has been on their shows. I do so because I worked with Rush faithful and have discussions on these subjects constantly.
Regarding SEIU in California, no, I hadn't heard of this issue... but I will research it as well.
The real difficulty I have is that just because something has never been done before doesn't make it the wrong thing to do nor does it automatically mean that we are headed towards socialism or communism because of those actions. The leap to Hitler is way too huge to believe... and , yes, Kennedy did inspire people to follow him much as Obama does... and I think that comparison makes much more sense.
We can argue about someone's intent or what someone is "going" to do all day long and never agree. And we would never agree since our measures of trust of the party and the administration is so different. From my point of view, and I do not say this lightly, I can see the logic in virtually everything Obama has done.
I would suggest you find documentaries about Hitler's rise to power - or the rise of any dictator. What Obama is doing is only going to make things worse and don't work. The French, I believe, had been in the car business years ago and it didn't work out.
Anything the govt does is not a success; private business can always do something more efficiently and reliably and cheaper. Think the USPO - if you want to make sure something gets there on time, you use UPS or Fed Ex. Same with Medicare/Medicaid. We are always told how close to insolvency they are. Same with Amtrak; I think the only reason they can stay in business is because the govt. underwrites them - props them up, so to speak.
It's only common fiscal sense - when a business is doing business, it is doing so to make money and that means it will do what it has to in order to operate efficiently. When the govt. is doing it, there is no such incentive. This is something that any business student learns in their first-year classes. Apparently Obama's lack of business background or education is showing. (For example, having a 31-year-old who didn't finish law school or even stepped inside a car plant be the architect of the new GM? Find the NYT article.)
Here's an article about the paycut - http://www.sacbee.com/capitolandcalifornia/story/1879574.html
Can only imagine what the gov. gave up for the White House to back down. Or, it could be that the public outrage made Obama realize he better back off.
dburger, 1.11 - where did you get the 42% #? If you want a good indication of what Obama is doing, go here
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/
Something new please
FDIC closed banks in the 80's and are doing it again. Difference is they closed and open in 2 days ,not taking ownership of the banks. They are also given the authority to do so. Obama has no such authority,And has overstepped the Constitution to do so. If this was going to happen than it should have went to the people ,You know the ones who are paying for it!!
Something is in the wind right now and has not totally poke it head out.
You now have government owning private companies,You have a bill coming thought banding religious programs on TV,You have A bill coming thru removing the time frame for a president to serve. You have the Attorney general refusing to look at voter fraud with the black panthers because it is not important enough but will go after a sheriff for making inmates wear pink boxer. That more important?. You have Guns right being challenged to take guns from the citizens but not the criminals, You have us making friends with the one we want us dead and shunning the only Friendswe have. Read some history people and see who did the same things.Only problem the government has not weight in one important factor. The stubbornness of the American people..And there will to die for what they believe in.
We have no interested in running GM, Just get our approval on all major decisions..
Welcome to Government Motors
Don't you think that investing tens of billions of dollars should give you a say in the decision making process? A board seat or two, perhaps?
Michele-659633, relax, the bill has no co-sponsors, and it is in committee, most bills never get past committee.
Oh yeah Michele and look who's on the committee for this one.
Something new please
Point is we should not be there. And who gave the right for the Government to spend my kids future earnings ? I don't remember voting for this,Do you?
And do you think the government knows anything about cars?They don't even have any business background. Get real...
Unions sold themselves is all it adds up to....
Nothing good will come of this. We pumped billions into GM (and Chryslug) and they still filed bankruptcy. Now, instead of the private sector working out these companies under the auspices of the bankruptcy process, the government is going to step in and dictate the process, and the outcomes. The government is notoriously bad at picking winners in a private marketplace. In the end, all that the "quick bankruptcy" is going to do is wipe out the private investors who had a stake in the company. The new GM is going to be a government owned, union managed shop. Whether consumers actually elect to buy what is produced is another matter entirely. Personally, I think this whole business amounts to an anti-trust violation, since the government is going to be bankrolling and voting on GM and Chryslug business, while Ford is going to have to, essentially, compete with the limitless deep pockets of the government. The same government that is funding, and therefore has an interest in, the success of its rivals. The same government that sets automobile safety and mileage standards. The same government that decides when to issue a recall.
What a mess. I hope the guys in Dearborn can manage the wherewithal to stand up to this. It's literally the free market vs. command-and-control. Buy a Ford; save the free market.
Ford still has plenty of cash. They can go about another year. If sales don't increase appreciably by the end of this year, then they will be in real trouble.
I'm not going out to look for a new or newer vehicle - There all two expensive.
Tough love?
I wish someone would hand me billions of someone elses money whenever I fail miserably. If not for the massive bailouts GM would not even exist. Where is the "toughness" in that?
The really sad part of the mess is the companies who were ran well enough to put GM out of business, they beat their competition fair and square but then the government robs the country to keep the failure afloat.
I wonder if the Government Motors Black Knight model will be able to compete fairly with the up and coming Kim Il Jung's new Rocketmobile. One will go in a straight line like a bat out of hell and the other....like a fruit bat.
Both models will come in black only.
Oh and get 50 MPG - Fershur
With a one-cylinder turtle-dung-derived biodiesel engine...
On Time #7 - No, they can't be black. That's not energy efficient. (Google about California's consideration of banning black cars a couple of months ago. You'll get a laugh!)
Obama takes billions and billions of the taxpayer money, loans it to Chrysler, and GM to stay afloat for awhile; forces them to take Chapter 11 and forgives the loans the taxpayer money paid for -- and don't forget that Chrysler is a privately held company!
Obama takes billions and billions of the taxpayer money, loans it to various banks and financial institutions who say "thank you very much", pocket the taxpayer funds and ups the percentage rate on credit cards - Obama says "shame on you" and passes new law that prevents the percentage rate....but gives the banks and financial institutions a year to rape, pillage and plunder the American public before the new law goes into effect.
I've worked hard for many many years (like most other people), I've paid my takes, paid into Social Security and Medicare as required and now I'm reading social security won't be around in a very few years. I want the money I paid into SS and the money my husband and children have paid into SS paid back to me NOW---IN FULL before Obama gives it all away OR I want to opt out of the social security system like our Representatives and Sentators have done and opt into their program to secure the future.
That's my rant for today.
Does Oblabla have a driver's license? Can he drive? This clown is a bigger dumb-dumb that G. Weasel Bush!!!
Just another step in the nationalization/socialization of the country. The government owns many of the banks, insurance giants, now auto makers and would like to take over the oil companies. Maxine Waters made that clear in a congressional hearing a few months back. Just part of the socialist agenda.
Started with Bush's bailout
pddoc - I told you earlier what my response to this was. How can you say this started with Bush? He never, ever wanted to own a business and never did. He never, ever proposed it. Show me where? When is the Dem rhetoric going to stop the blame Bush line?
I sure hope they are on the right track with this. In Michigan, we are in a depression, not a recession, and it looks like it is going to get worse. None of us can figure out what we are going to do because we are losing everything and have nowhere to go, nor does it look like any help. We wouldn't wish this on our worst enemies, but it sure looks like other states that have been slightly feeling the fall out of this, are now going to also get the real feel of this nightmare. Hang onto your seats, the going is very, very rough. Many of us need to move to the tent cities in the warmer areas of the U.S. because we can't even afford to live here anymore nor will be able to afford our winter utilities - it is a very psychologically depressed area with no light seen at the end of the tunnel.
Tory all you have to do is look at the posts on this board. As you can see your FELLOW AMERICAN wants you to be where you are.
I think the reverse is true. Government has been trying to save the American automakers mostly because of the loss of jobs and benefits to huge numbers of people, and the greater impact that has on every corner of American society which was largely built off the backs of the car companies. The general public has great sympathy for the workers who will be made jobless. Unfortunately, as with every industry, its time has run out. Foreign car makers displaced the US car industry beginning back in the 70s. Their share of the market has steadily increased (smaller, less gas guzzling cars), while Detroit's share has slowly gone down the tubes. The writing has been on the wall for a long time. Too bad no one was paying attention.
Wouldn't it have been cheaper for them to go BK earlier, sell the pieces off to other mfgrs (Honda, Toyota, etc.), and instead of having GM vehicles made in those plants, other cars would be made? I mean, there would be a need to be filled, which means other mfgrs would be selling more and would have increased need for capacity to fill those needs. And all those tangential businesses would be making parts for these other mfgrs. Plus, there all these Chryslers and GM cars that will need parts and to be serviced, so I assume there would be some ongoing production of parts, etc. And, frankly, I am thinking that the financial mess Obama is making is only making things worse than if they just died.
Furthermore, there have been car companies that died in the past - remember American Motors? Remember Plymouth? No, they were not as big as GM, but when they stopped being made, I do not remember any big hit to our economy. The demand - no matter how small - for those cars was met through other car makers. The fact is these companies became unprofitable due to failing quality and union costs. Just as any business, as some posters have noted, they should have failed.
I suppose if Obama were president when the gas-light companies were being pushed out of business due to electricity, and those gas-light companies elected him, we would not have electric lights today. He would have bought them and forced us to continue to use gas lights.
Aside from the open marxist that Resident Obama is, how about the headline that MSNBC posts? Clearly, the media will refuse to point out to the American people just how far left this guy has taken the country.
Media Obama Propagana PERIOD.
Where a Walter Cronkite when you need him.
Media Circus a bunch of clowns or government clones.
Started with the first bailout and marxist Bush
USA democracy, capitalism, free society, et al. Warts and all, USA still a decent place to live and raise a family if one wishes. However, we are the frog in a slowly heated pot of water and gradually dying. I don't say kick out Obama and Congress necessarily, doesn't seem to matter much who is in there these days. I do say, the American voter should take a good look at what is happening (and will continue to happen), start bombarding your representatives, fed and local and tell them what you think. Agree or disagree but TELL them what you think and frequently and in 2010 and 2012, let your voice be heard. They are politicians primarily who wish to keep their jobs! Vote them back in if you agree, kick them out if you don't.
They have not taken away our right to vote (at least not yet). IMHO.
Being that the American people own controlling interest in GM. I would be willing to pay the difference on a new vehicle. The US government US - We own 60% of the company. I will pay the 40% of the vehicles cost being I'm a owner. Example: Vehicle $50,000.00 this is getting to be about avg these days LOL. So I will pay around $20000.00 for this vehicle sounds fair to me. Otherwise don't call me.
With your analogy,,, You will be stealing 30,000 from the government ---- Not very patriotic
But, Government doesn't own the company, does it ??? It's only reluctant share holders --- The company is still privately owned & operated
No. He would be taking the owner's discount. The government only has what it's citizens are forced to give it.
More like the Repo Man would be coming after Joker - The "owners discount" was always just a dealer sales gimmick,,,, You can buy directly from the factory
Have you ever wondered why the dealership owners never seem to drive the cars they sell ?? -- Most drive exotic foreign cars
I can hear that. But as far as I can see the Governemnt - US, are providing the same pretty much. We are not the floatation device for all failing companies. The one that really errks me AIG because I feel strongly that our US Government's pension plans are with this company and we the American people are stabilizing there retirements NO ONE I KNOW or pretty much has a retirement and those that do are absorbing the economic problems with the markets on their own managed retirements pretty much. If you were to do this working for a company you would be fired for conflictive interest,.The US government has been basically stealing from us all these years representing the things their going to do and pretty much not forfilling many of them. Like for example lets take hurricane Katrina for example our natural disaster readiness, we pay for was not ready AT ALL. But we were taxed to provide per the US Congress to have a system in place NOT there spending in some other place in the self interest of there constituants and there party.
I was being facetious.
You sound like you should be running for congress. LOL, because that is how will they govern.
I'm sure you would be a strong candidate.
Who Go, or me ??
I've got a few shadows in my closet, & no tolerance for lies, bad management & flag waving at the expense of our nation ,,, Thanks anyway
Joker,,,, I'm glad you brought up "our natural disaster readiness"
The last administration stopped funding for the replacement of a failing satellite which gives us timely warnings, & other badly needed funds.
The National Hurricane Center Deputy Director and Florida emergency managers stated in 1997 the nation's hurricane warning system was already understaffed and couldn't do their job with less people. Additionally, the governors of Florida and North Carolina are lobbying the federal government to reinstate the funds.
This article is dated 1997, written by the National Weather Association
http://www.nwas.org/newsletters/feb_mar97.php
Conservatives called it "Pork" spending & opposed it
Lets don't go down the FAA route This needs some major overhaulin also. Our road bidges and the list goes on. What does our Congress do again?
Go USA-851295,,,,, You say "The government only has what it's citizens are forced to give it" ??
They aren't forced,, They are mislead by old politics & special interest groups. Without taxes our great American values would collapse along with the worlds greatest government.
Example; Rhetoric tells you our founding fathers & Constitution didn't give Congress oversight powers to prevent problems from happening or to allow growth of government
Yet our founding fathers who wrote Federalist 51, which which helped frame our Constitution with the intention of growth & efficiency created "Implied Powers" & oversight through congressional rules
Oversight, moreover, is supported by a variety of authorities --- The Constitution, public law, and chamber & committee rules ----- It's an integral part of the system of checks & balances
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/97-936.pdf
Why conservatives wish to attack & destroy what our founding fathers created for a badly informed idea of "Smaller Government" is beyond reasonable logic
Efficient Government, Yes indeed ---- Smaller one with no oversight or protections ?? Hell no
What I see is Obama laughing and joking his way to a better life for he and his constituents but helping few in their own pursuit. When he made that disperaging remark in Las Vegas, a community that he helped devestate earlier this year, that his suite was much better the second time around I was apalled. Instead of tightening his own administrations belt and those of our illustrious House and Congressional members he jokes about his first class accommodations. I am glad he was able to stay in the high dollar suite instead of the basic room as each of us might look at instead. Gibbs, Pelosi and the rest are are no better.
It seems like the better move for all these companies was to proceed with bankruptcy procedures and use what policy and monies there are to shore up our economy. If the unions would have stepped up years before instead of reaping their political rewards, and even now refusing to budge until it was too late, things would have been better. I hear about those that maligned the financial executives and company CEO's for their greed and selfishness but little about Obama and the majority left riding exactly the same train. I imagine these trillions of dollars would have gone a long way to help us reduce taxes and help every American instead of the chosen few. What about Obama telling the government that he and they will take no salary until the crisis passes. I doubt he would ever interfere with those government run entities.
Let's see..the UAW managed to preserve the basic hourly wage, pension and health benefits for their members. The stockholders got nothing, the bond holders got a kiss-off, the suppliers will get virtually nothing for what they have already shipped to GM. When the original issue was the fact every GM car carried $1500 worth of benefits associated with it, why didn't the UAW have to give up some of their pension and health benefits.
I live in MI and see no way out of this hell hole. My monthly prescriptions total more than $300 (no insurance) and it pisses me off to watch the GM person ahead of me pay a $1 - 5 co-pay and walk away with brand name drugs while I struggle to preserve my health as best I can with generics. Where is the justice in letting the UAW dictate the terms of the bankruptcy agreement in their favor when all others are getting the shaft?
Tough Love?
Here's $50,000,000,000.00 for the Union Perpetuation Fund. The "people" now own GM, but will never see a dime out of it.
It's pretty transparent what's going on ! In fact it's about the only transparency in this administration.
i am pretty sure that obama has given gm a little over 50 billion as of right now. i don't think the money is going to stop flowing anytime soon. and obama insists that all this money will be paid back to the government. does anyone have any idea how many cars you need to sell to pay back 50 billion? this is insanity! and did anybody catch this line in the story by obama "When a diificult decision has to be made on matters like where to open a new plant..." well i got news for obama and gm there ain't gonna be no new plant openings soon, maybe ever. who are they kidding can they hear the BS out of their own mouths. i own a gm car now. i will not buy one again after this botched abortion that the federal government has committed against the citizens of the United States. obama and everyone on capitol hill should be prosecuted under the RICO act. bunch of criminals.
I have been in the auto industry for 26+ years. We have been down this road before. People not buying cars and not fixing their old cars. What happened was the dealer decided when they couldn't stay in business, not the government. For all of you out there that think closing dealers are saving the manufacture, your wrong. The only thing the manufacture does for a dealership is make them meet building specs, signage, training, special tools (which thet sell to the dealer at much higher than normal price)... etc. And who pays the tab on ALL this,? The dealer does. Someone explain to me how closing dealers are going to help the car manufacture. You can't......
mdinpa
Agree closing dealers have little bearing on the operating expense of a manufacturer they buy the cars from the manufacturer..
what a bunch of crap this article is........ "Obama walks a tightrope between the auto industry and taxpayers."
Obama could give a rip about taxpayers. He only cares about buying votes. PERIOD!!!!
SCUMBAG!! Obama - 225,000 ON A DATE ??!! Democrats, Had enough???. He is the ultimate phoney, just like you guys are.
So did you want him to book a flight on Southwest? Even when people hold the White House that I don't agree with I can understand the special security situations. This is not the early 1800s. The President can't get dinner at the rooming house down the street or take a stroll down the street. The amount is large to sum but compared to other government spending it is small. President Bush spent almost a third of his time as President on vacation, either at the ranch at Crawford or at Kennebunkport. He used Air Force One many times.
yah, keep defending 225k for a date. WOW,, what and arrogant clown to spend this kind of money when people are losing their jobs. This is a huge waste of tax dollars. This is more than the mean average for a house. UNBELIEVEABLE!!!!!
Yep, what right does this man have to any happiness at all. That's what we need, an utterly humorless, unhappy man with no joy or satisfaction in his life while he is serving as U.S. President. Huge waste of tax dollars! The War in Iraq, now there was a huge waste of tax dollars. He is a good man doing important work for the American people. It is well worth it. If he does his job well, which I believe is, there will be no complaining about people without jobs.
jeaners9: Sounds to me like your the phoney
Kelly-648282
Well said
No question he is walking a tight rope! Remember, there are two sides to every story.With out going into alot of detail, on the one side we have a huge company thats going belly up. What happens if we let this happen? "Everything" could be lost. How many jobs? On the other hand, if we help it restructure we my save it and alot of jobs, I should add. So, what side of the fence are you on? I'am having a tough time with this one.
The mismanagement that consistently occurred at GM demonstrated the greed and criminality that is so pervasive in American business today.
They saw fit, as most American corporations do, to bribe a VERY receptive, business-friendly, small-government touting Congress to maintain the status quo and/or deliver artificial benefits. They were more interested in maintaining piratical methods than they were in doing their business in a considered and intelligent manner.
GM IGNORED the warning signs of the early 70s, the warning signs of the early 80s and the warning signs of the mid 90s. The direction of the world was changing radically while GM management bribed and looked the other way.
Rather than embrace the changing planet and changing marketplace, GM and other companies have continued to foist antique technology in designer skins so that money could flow smoothly into bribery, dividends and bonuses.
In so doing, they have betrayed America. They betrayed their workers and their shareholders. The business-friendly, regulation-hating enablers in Congress who accepted their bribes and permitted their laziness are no less culpable in their betrayal to the United States.
Some of the current crop of American management will point back at American icons like JD Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie and JP Morgan. They will tell you "I'm the same as them because I'm a capitalist, too!". That could be true if it wasn't. The old American capitalists had ONE major, major difference. The old capitalists were patriots first. Everything they did were of Americans, by Americans and for Americans. They KNEW and APPRECIATED the nation who gave them the opportunities that made them. Today's "capitalists" are only for themselves.
Ross Perot was not exactly correct in his description of the giant whoosh that the loss of American jobs would precipitate. It is in fact more like the roar of a jet's afterburner! American corporate management is systematically bleeding the United States dry and it's time they were stopped!
Those who would have you believe that GM, like others, doesn't need stiff controls by responsible people in order to save at least SOME American jobs are simply in cahoots with crime. There is NOTHING that offers ANY indication that the current crop of American corporate managers have ANY remorse for their mismanagement or theft nor do I see ANY hope of their changing their irresponsible ways or attitudes toward this nation unless they are held on VERY short and VERY tight leashes!
Those who would have you believe that unions are the only instruments at fault are also in cahoots with crime. While union wages and pension funds have placed untenable burdens on an extremely emaciated industry, they were not prime causes of GM's, Chrysler's or Ford's malaise. They were simply expenses whose time to be trimmed had come and gone without action because of mismanagement. To be fair, some of the blame for the inertia was due to mismanagement on the unions' parts but Corporate Management itself bears the major brunt of responsibility.
The fact is that American corporations, by and large, are managed today by greedy, self-serving, unscrupulous, morals and ethics deficient thieves who have NO compunctions whatsoever at selling their own nation into slavery so that they may end the day with more money in their pockets than some countries.
Rather than rant and shake fists at the first honest attempt to sort out malfeasance and to make things right in the United States in over a half century, perhaps this country should stare hard at who is doing all the ranting. If you look and listen closely, you will find it is the selfsame pirates who got us here in the first place or loudmouthed ignoramuses who are pumping unreasoned emotions to a frenzy with political bull$hit!
Capitalism is NOT the 7th level of heaven! It is a means to develop wealth responsibly. It can be used to develop wealth in individuals, companies, populations and nations. Used greedily, irresponsibly or without careful consideration and due diligence, it turns into a voracious, uncaring, destructive MONSTER that will turn on its users and devour them without remorse! Capitalism is a force of nature that is not to be trifled with.
I applaud those who are making efforts to bring this monster under control and I hope that those who prefer the modern brand of capitalistic chaos see the light of reason and relent or are driven mercilessly OUT of the capitalistic arena. Capitalism deserves better.
America is polarized with ignorance and shocked at the incredibly fast loss of our wealth. Our naivete regarding things financially criminal is astonishing. What is even more astonishing is the ability of these same thieves to continue to steal in the light of day while convincing the ignorant that the good guys need to be run out of town.
I have seen the catchphrase "Wake up America" used time and time again by the propogators of the status quo, as if it was best to maintain the standards and practices that have shaken this country to its foundation. Remember that the best liars will use your comfort zone to lull you into complascence while they pull out the contents of your back pocket. "Wake up America" should really mean LOOK OUT, YOU'RE BEING ROBBED!
These are NOT capitalists! These are thieves! It's time to arrest and incarcerate the thieves, not turn our heads while they steal our jobs, our nation and our future.
You heard it here first folks. Watch for some regulations and laws (possibly extreme tax breaks or increases) related to the car business that limit Ford's ability to significantly increase market share while GM is in banctruptcy. Obama will do something to unfairly level the playing field. This will be more of the Robin Hood mentality. Income redistribution and now customer redistribution.
He already promised GM BIG, future tax credits........ surprised?
I hope FORD kicks GMs butt for addressing and effectively managing its own business affairs without begging for our money.
The one thing he cant do is make us buy there cars....
I have always purchased GM vechicles but now it's Ford all the way. I dont want anything
to do with Govt Motors.
The free enterprise system is not a license to destroy our nation's economy. Businesses, especially big businesses have a responsibility to operate in a reasonable and productive manner. They don't have the right to engage in dangerous and harmful business practices to endanger our nation's economy or threaten the livelihood of hundreds of thousands of Americans. Scream socialism if you life, this needed to be done.
Correct the last line Scream socialism if you like, this needed to be done.
I guess that doesn't refer to the unions? If a business does not operate correct it goes out of business, Rules of business correct? If the business is so large it effects our economy ,than make be we structured our economy in correctly ,By killing the ones who really keep it going ?Small business? But then they are not Union....And then they don't operate under the socialist system.