Good luck to you.

Well, whenever I need to replace my Chevy truck -- it has 112,000 miles on it now, and runs like a dream, so it'll be a while -- I'll be headed to the nearest GM dealer to buy another one.

Let me see. We will steal your investment and give you 10% of the stock of our worthless company. And if your really stupid, you can buy up to 15% of our worthless company's stock. Meanwhile, we will put the government and unions in charge of destoying what's left of our worthless company. YEah, sounds like a winner. Can you say British Leyland?!

This Company should go into a Lawful non-government controled bankruptcy. Our Government has no business taking over private business. Welcome to total Government Control people. Government own GM 70%, 80% owned AIG a bill before Congress to place a Government official on every board of any corporation that has ever retroactively received a bailout, tax incentive. Welcome to Socialism/Marxism.

What a mess.

Burlap - I hope all goes well for you.

"It was unclear what would happen to the GM's current $6 billion worth of secured debt, but the person said the U.S. government will provide financing to operate the new company and for the old GM to be liquidated. "

Here's an additional $6 billion wasted in the deal.

Extortion plain and simple. Take 15% of nothing or take absolutely nothing.

If I were a bond holder, I would file breach of contract lawsuit RIGHT NOW. It will be hard to file a suit against gov't motors when barry owns it outright. Chrysler dealers,ditto. You have a clear breach of a private contract as it stands now.

Barry needs to leave the private sector to the grownups. No way he will be able to micromanage this economy.

This is UnConstitutional. Period.

With Obama's new nomination to Supreme Court not following the Constitution and him all for racist judges, I don't think it bothers him one bit that this is totally illegal.

Good luck because it still isn't going to SELL cars. First people have to have jobs with a steady incomes and then the banks have to pry their fingers open to lend money for car loans. Since unemployment isn't supposed to level off until late 2010 it won't help any of the Big 3 sell cars or Honda or Toyota.

Personally, if GM imports Chinese cars it will ruin their credibility. After all the crap we've had coming in from China that has been unsafe, the very last thing I'd ever buy would be a car that was Chinese made. No way!

The Bondholders would have been paid second out of all assets in a Bankruptcy court, with payroll obligations first, and the union third. Bondholders would have been far better off to hold out.

To all bondholders and stockholders of highly unionized companies - sell your bonds and stocks now, because now you see what happens when the the government gets involved. They lost the vast majority of their "investments". What's really interesting is that some of the losers will be the union trust funds of many other unions that "invested" in GM stocks and bonds. LOL

Any investors thinking about buying stocks or bonds in a unionized company would have to be crazy after seeing what the Obama administration did to them with GM.

I suspect this will lead to much higher financing costs for unionized companies because of the increased risks which, combined with much higher labor costs, will make them poor competitors with non-union and overseas companies.

"Change you can believe in".

The ultimate irony is this may indeed be the death of unions. Hard to peddle your wares when no one wants to invest in your future or buy your product. Sometimes you get what you want right between the eyes.

They should shed the debt but they won't get the government off their backs. Should have just claimed bankruptcy before a bailout then they could have run their own company.

Good luck Burllap

The more I hear about this the more I think "Ponzi Scheme" especially where the union retirement is concerned. I bet the risk management people are freaking out.......

The "new" GM will be 90% owned by the government and the UAW.

Can you imagine a worse scenario? The government will want them to build "socially responsible" cars, and the UAW will want them to add as many union jobs as possible, with the usual protections against union workers being laid off and overly generous pensions. And which owner is going to say no, Obama?, the UAW? HA.

It's only a matter of time before the automakers that really know how to compete put the "new" GM out of business, but probably not before the taxpayer has invested over $100 Billion in a failed social experiment.

I suspect the current lenders, who have already lost over $50 Billion, will want to find other suckers for their 10% share before that disappears as well.

Obama's colors (no pun intended) are beginning to show.

Wait a minute. GM is bankrupt, and that has nothing to do with Obama or the government. Personally, I think the government made a mistake by bailing them out to begin with. But now we are here. By virtue of the government's senior debt position they are the de facto owners of the company. This is the same thing that happens when a the debt holder is a private entity. The senior debt holders get reinstated at a leverage multiple that gives the company a chance to return to profitability, and those same debt holders also get a slice of the back-end equity. The bond holders should get nothing, but to avoid a prolonged legal battle, they are bought off with a small percentage of the beck-end equity. The union component is new to me. None of the bankruptcies that I've dealt with had that. Otherwise, this is par for the course.

Also, getting a seat on the board of a company in which you hold a majority interest (or even significant interest) is not atypical behavior. Don't you want the government looking after the taxpayers' investment?

-----------

rightron-739266

While I don't see the irony in the UAW's death, I agree that it's imminent. I see this collapse as a product of both the union's overreaching and the complacency of management. And now, as you say, they're (both) getting it right between the eyes.

DMAZ-591323

I couldn't agree with you more. The question is: what made them think that with a few billion in bailout funds they'd get things turned around? This company was begging for a restructuring. Now, with the government in the mix, that process will take much longer than if it had just been done in December, or earlier.

SNP- the irony is that in an effort to reward the uaw for there undying devotion to him, Barry has signed their death sentence.

What was the first thing chrysler uaw did when given 55% control? Announced its 55% was for sale to the highest bidder. Kinda hard to negotiate that next contract with yourself. Turns into amway, selling products to yourself.

Something new please

Nothing is ever simple or swift with the goverment involved. I just wish we did not get forced to invest in GM with our tax money now will be forced to keep investing in a loser.

Hey everyone...

Dont forget the big three went to the guberment..... the guberment did not go to them...

GM is STUPID for even going there.. if capitalism dies, it is because the banks and the car companies went to make a deal with the devil..

That was the risk the bondholders took when they invested. Everything was OK when they were raking in big returns on those bonds.When investing you always take the risk of losing. How many people lost money in the stock market, and are not getting anything for those loses. At least the bondholders are getting a chance to recoup some of their risk taking losses. The more the risks the bigger the returns on investments or the bigger the losses.

I'm a US taxpayer and I want a new car for cost + 10%!!

Somthing...This ABSOLUTELY has to do with OBAMA and the goverment!! And yeah, now we're all paying for it whether we buy GM or not! Obama had NO RIGHT to fire Wagoner when the government didn't even have "control" at that time. It is criminal. You ask executives and engineers at corporate - Wagoner was a great CEO and his firing was outrageous use of force by arrogant Obama, and unfortunately the media painted him ugly right along with all the other AIG criminals. Not even close to the same thing but Mr. Wagoner got flogged by association because of the media feeding frenzy at the time. At least if GM was gonna sink, they'd have no one to blame but themselves. And I don't think they would've. Now the gov't has basically a hostile takeover and gets a 1/2 price deal but now will force GM to make cars that nobody wants anymore!

So why doesn't the gov't bailouts of AIG & housing industry (that none of us are seeing the benefits of) mean that the gov't owns our homes? (mortgages). Because the BO administration is still in bed with them and they get preferential treatment. But I'm sure that's coming too. We'll all be owned, along with everything we have.

rightron-739266

Ok, I get your point. But I disagree that Obama is signing the death warrant. If we agree that these companies would have filed anyway (i.e. the government wasted a bunch of time and money by carrying them a few extra rounds), then how did Obama's actions kill the union? It seems to me that the UAW killed itself.

---------------------------------

DMAZ-591323

I completely agree with both of your statements.

Does anyone remember that horrible little car the Volga? It was the Soviet Union's answer to the "Peoples" car, although the "People" could never afford it and wouldn't want it if they could. No worse car has ever been produced in the history of the world.

With government taking over GM, look forward to owning the newest rendition of the Volga. Only this one will be worse. It will be designed by the Sierra Club, it will be electric and will go about 40 miles on a charge and it will take 16 hours to recharge. Plus, it will cost an arm and a leg. That way they can keep you home and not out polluting anything except your own house.

clickit45

Please take a deep breath. Firing Wagoner, while ill-advised, is not what killed GM. I agree the bailout was a mistake. I agree that Wagoner was a sacrificial lamb. GM still has only itself to blame. Even the bloated contracts with the unions were at least partly the result of weak management. If you were running a company, would let unions walk all over you? I think not. Also, Obama will not make the Big Three by cars that nobody wants; they currently make cars that nobody wants. Look at their sales and subtract government purchases. Look at how many people actually choose to buy them as opposed to those that are mandated through Buy America. These companies have been mismanaged for years. Now the chickens are coming home to roost. I only wish that Obama had let them die and get resurrected (through bankruptcy) into entities with long-term potential.

The answer can be summed up in two words: BUY FORD.

That was the risk the bondholders took when they invested. Everything was OK when they were raking in big returns on those bonds.When investing you always take the risk of losing. How many people lost money in the stock market, and are not getting anything for those loses. At least the bondholders are getting a chance to recoup some of their risk taking losses. The more the risks the bigger the returns on investments or the bigger the losses.

Without Government intervention those bond holders would have received close to .30 -.50 on the dollar (after prefeered stock holders), when GM did go bankrupt (the losers would have been those with Common Stock). Instead the government has issued a take it or leave it ultimatium, bypassing law & regulations to suit their Plan.

I'm sure there will be a few books published about the collapse of GM, and none of them will be flattering to the Obama administration's strong-arming.

demitrix

It's hard to say what the bondholders would have received under a diffferent scenario since you can't say what GM's books would look like right now without the influx of funds. Either way, you're probably right in that the bondholders would have received more than they will under the current plan.

First off, let's not forget that the car companies came to the feds with their hands out. The bondholders might have been wise to block that action in the courts, knowing they'd be subordinated to the government. I suspect that they didn't do that because they really thought a loan would buy some time and the ship would right itself.

While I think the government made a mistake with the bailout, you can't say that this was part of some vast conspiracy. The car companies asked for help; the government gave help; it wasn't enough; the companies go bankrupt; the government salvages as many taxpayer dollars as they can; they sell their (our) interest, the country moves on. End of story. Hopefully, this teaches Obama and subsequent administrations that bailouts don't always work.

demitrix "Without Government intervention those bond holders would have received close to .30 -.50 on the dollar"

You are probably right, but the Obama administration was "structuring" the bankruptcy so that two companies would be formed - One with all of the "good" assets, which he was effectively giving to the unions, and one with "bad" assets (basically none) to give to the bondholders that would go out of business, and he probably was going to file the bankruptcy with a compliant judge, so these bondholders, who should have had priority over union claims, would have basically had nothing. An outrageous intrusion into the law, but remember, Obama is a former lawyer who knows how to manipulate the law to his liking.
This should be a warning to any stock/bond holder of a large unionized company - get out while you can, and don't EVER invest in a highly unionized company again. Actually, bondholders should take advantage of the relatively high prices they can sell their bonds for (except GM & Chrysler) and sell them to another sucker and then watch THEM ride the slide down into the mud.

Anybody that would invest in a highly unionized company after this deserves what they get. King Belshazzar of Babylon ignored "the handwriting on the wall". Will you?

All this makes me want to hang onto my Saturn Sky (like I could sell it anyway) even more, may be remembered as the last really cool car Detroit ever built. I thought I read Waggoner was going to retire anyway as he was an "old school" car guy and didn't like the idea of building cars around government dictates. Now if I can just get parts and service, as dealers are being put out of bussiness and their specialty and machine tools sold as scrap.

ROY WILSON-336103

As to your statement regarding the priority of bond claims to those of the unions, what is your basis for asserting this blanket seniority? Also, even if the bond holders got reinstated debt at 100 cents on the dollar, what good would it be when your workforce is on strike? The company had a hugely underfunded pension and needed concessions from the union on wages and benefits going forward. Nobody (not the bondholders, not anybody) was going to get those concessions without giving something up in return. If you think that the bondholders could have struck a better bargain with the unions, you may be right, but to suggest that they would have been fully reinstated has no basis in law or history. In fact, the reason the bondholders are getting pennies is because the companies came to the government on their hands and knees, begging for a bailout. In turn, the government obliged, but not without making sure that its position was senior to all others. That's what eroded the bondholders' position, not the unions. What the unions are getting now, give or take, is what they would have gotten under a scenario where the request for a bailout was refused and they filed back in December. Personally, I feel the government should have said no to the bailout. But the point remains, the union isn't getting the bondholders' share, the feds are.

Something new please

"The company had a hugely underfunded pension"

Yes, but if the Federal Government was held to the same standard, it's "underfunded liability" would be more than the total net worth of the country and its citizens for Social Security and Medicare.

The government is investing about $10 Billion and getting 72.5% of the stock.

The Union is "contributing" the underfunded liability (which might have disappeared in bankruptcy) for 17.5% of the stock.Note below

The bondholders and lenders invested $50 Billlion and get 10% of the stock.

I wonder who took it in the shorts.

Note - The Union pension fund had $84.5 Billion in assets and $98 Billion in liabilities, but the $13.5 Billion shortfall probably would have disappeared if the Pension Guarantee Fund took over, because the required payments would be less than the $84.5 Billion in assets.

rightron-739266

"What was the first thing chrysler uaw did when given 55% control? Announced its 55% was for sale to the highest bidder. Kinda hard to negotiate that next contract with yourself. Turns into amway, selling products to yourself. "

This is not true, first off thier is a clause in the agreement about when the VEBA shares may be sold, and for how much. Second the VEBA has the shares not the UAW, the VEBA has its own board, on which the UAW is a minority, Ron Gettlefinger made this very clear with-in a couple days of the announcement, he even went so far as to say that it would not prevent the UAW members from striking.

ROY WILSON-336103,

I am sure just like at Chrysler that it is the VEBA that will get the shares not the UAW ( the veba look after the health care not pension), and per a FAQ on the uaw sight, the uaw has less than 50% of the board there. But the thing is, if the VEBA did not get this, guess who would have been paying the health care costs, the taxpayers.

As far did the bailout work or fail, I would say it is working like a charm, and could go through very fast. Only big part still to be solved, is who will GM partner with in Europe, that should get settled this weekend.
All these deals that they now have, are exactly what they spoke about in congress last year, it is now structured, had they just walked in with no bailout, they would be there for years.

Back in 1990, the Government seized the Mustang Ranch brothel in Nevada for tax evasion and, as required by law, tried to run it. They failed and it closed. Now we are supposed to trust the restructuring of GM, and the economy of our country and our banking system to the same nit-wits who couldn't make money running a whore house and selling whiskey.

I'm thinking really hard and believing this isn't working for me. How about you?

What ever happened to the LAW of the JUNGLE? I don’t want to have to pay for GM for the remainder of my life. WHAT is this? Do you think anyone is coming here to pay for me to bungle the organization? I really don’t think so.

The DON from the OC

Bankruptcy to the bond holders would place them in line to receive money as GM shed and sold its manufacturing/loans etc, under bankruptcy. Common Stocks would be the only useless paper.

They could lose their whole investment

No they wouldn't. If a company is liquidated, the creditors are paid first, then the owners. The UAW wouldn't get squat.

Which makes the whole thing seem fishy...the money that they would get at liquidation would at least be hard cash - but instead, they are all accepting almost worthless stock?

The government basically realized that they were about to lose a bunch of taxpayer and union money, and devised a plan to save their own arses...screw everyone else.

This is why I hate politics

And what happens if the company goes under again? All of the former bondholders now have stock....and are in line behind the new creditors...so they basically lose everything. Nobody makes a deal that stupid without some sort of coersion.

BINGO, demitrix and weagle! Absolutely right on the law. The first persons paid off in any bankruptcy are the secured creditors (to the extent of their security), followed by unsecured creditors in a designated order of precedence. Bond holders holding commercial paper generally come ahead of other claimants. Then are the holders of "preferred stock", which is just that - the claims of "preferred stock" holders is "preferred" to those holding "common stock" in any liquidation/bankruptcy. Then come "common stock" holders followed by general, unsecured creditors, which would most likely include the UAW, at least as to most of the "debt" (actually, less a debt than an accrued and contingent future obligation) claimed by them. Obama's "trick" was to use taxpayer money to "leapfrog" the UAW's claim over all those who would normally get paid before the UAW. It's not illegal, per se, but it's certainly shyster-like behavior (or worse, given the capacity of the government to bring inappropriate pressure to bear - just think of Tony Soprano only with fewer scruples). SO, pensioners who were bondholders in GM get robbed at least thrice - firstly, the government takes their tax dollars to "buy" the UAW preference, then it devalues their money by borrowing and printing excess currency (the deficit), and then it forces them to take a lesser amount than they'd get in any liquidation.

So, pray tell, why is it that UAW workers' pensions are so much more important or valuable than, say, the pensions of grocery workers or teachers or firefighters or the waitress who struggled to put money into an IRA? Because THAT is what it comes down to - Mr. Obama might want to characterize these bondholders as a "small group of greedy speculators" (as he did in the Chrysler matter), but the people whose money he's stealing to fund the UAW (and to buy their votes) are folks like you and me. If the average American knew diddly-squat about money matters, they'd be forming lynch mobs but, regrettably, they don't, so they are led to believe that this is all coming out of the wallets of some hypothetical fat cat.

Thanks to Mr. Obama, that waitress will have to forego retirement for a lot longer, but, hey, look at the bright side - if she serves a retired autoworker, maybe they'll leave her a decent tip!

oldefarte,

It was not the UAW pensions that got the 17.5% it is the health care trust, and that I believe was a legaly binding debt, negotiated back in 2007. When they all appeared before congress, they talked a lot about that, because the deal was they each agreed to put so much into a VEBA trust account to cover health care, and then the trust looks after it, that way the Big3 did need to worry about the cost of health care going up each and every year, which was killing them.

No a Cadillac built by the is call Wegoin - as we goin down the drain.

Don't forget the wonderful government experiment called Amtrak.

The postal service was privatized years ago...

GM will be the new Amtrak. Lose billions every year, but still get taxpayer money to keep the company alive.

I for one vow to never buy a GM. Never have.....never will.

If the Post Office was 'privatized', who does it compete against?

By law, nobody else is permitted to handle or deliver mail. That hardly sounds like any private company I've ever heard of.

Neil...It was privatized like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, so it isn't really private company. Competators woudl be Fed EX, DHL and the like. There are restriction that still give the USPS a purpose.

The government will not be running the car companies, they find someone they can trust to give thier board seats to.

The rich are laughing, the bond holders were mostly made up of middle class America's retirement money. The elite in this country are laughing; the Democrats: Hollywood, (rich) Unions (all set-thanks to middle class America), politicians(who get paid off by unions CHAAching!). And the rich well, they will make it thru this anyway, but will be screwed as well.). It is middle class, hard working America who is getting totally screwed by our new administration. Welcome to the new world, that includes the likes of welfare for UAW workers and retiree's. Yes, the middle class are footing the bill for all your benefits. The rest of us can't afford to pay for the type of health plans we are paying for you and your family to have, but does Obama give a care about us?? NO NO NO! Remember this the next time we have to vote. Lie's and deceit. He is for the middle class, my azz. Only if you belong to a union, other than that, you are only their to pay the bills, work, work until you die, because we are not going to subsidize your retirement like we do the UAW. He is full of lies.

Here Here egbay1!! I say again, "Spread the wealth" = "spread the debt" but only to the middle class. Which, by the way, we won't have by the time BO is done with us. We'll be like India with two classes, the rich, elite, Libs and the rest of us at the bottom of their food chain.

its 72.5 + 17.5 + 10 = 100, they fixed it now.

Sharon-287953 It has been said that for years that Japan and several others countries subsidize manufacters but the one thing that they haven't done is remove the CEO or take a 70% ownership stake. I for one wouldn't purchase a Chrysler or GM prior to this problem but now for sure wouldn't purchase an Obamamobile from Government Motors. A blue dog dem that has no use for the left wing of the dem party. We are going to far the the left as a country and I thing that the US wasn't meant to be a socialist country. The government says that it will return to private but have you listened to a lot of the Presidents promises ie no earmarks, full transparency etc. Also when the Treasury threatens the bondholder to take less that they would have received for the BK court.

Actually greed is the issue and not privatization. The fact that we as citizens are lead to the slaughter like sheep and most don't even realize it or worse don't care, is also a great detriment to our society. The fact that we don't care that cars cost what they do, or houses, or gas we buy them because we WANT! Our want has taken us into dangerous waters where we are dictated to on what we want, how much we should want, when we should want it, why we should want it and all of these things are presented to us as if they are our needs! Everything in our lives (from radio to television and everything in between) is selling us what they want us to have...even our government! One of the major problems with government is that they actually believe WE WORK FOR THEM INSTEAD OF THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!!!! And we buy that too!!! Our polititians need to have a wake up call and we need to let them know who they work for, and what we really want! The issue of the federal government owning stock in any company or organization leads to monopoly, it leads to favoritism, and it leads to us not having anything to say about it! Which is unconstitutional and breaks rules like the first amendment. The Constitution of the United States is clear on what the role of the federal government should be, and it does not allow for government ownership of anything! The government's hope is that no one knows what the Constitution says about the matter and that people like the new appointy can figure this all out for us so we need not worry ourselves with this sort of stuff...buy the way want to buy a car?!! I personally am very patriotic and I really hate seeing what is happening to this Country. Is is not so slowly turning into a Socialist Country, and even though there are two different types of socialism (which most didn't know) one helps the needy with charitable donations and help from all to get up onto their feet when they are down which helps them get moving again, but there is another more sinister type which is where the government will take it from all who are the so called have's (mostly middle class) and give to all who are considered to be the have not's. One guess who makes the determination between the two?!

Sharon-287953

The fact is that big business is ripping everyone off with huge salaries and then tanking the businesses while running away with all the cash. Blame this on who is at fault, deregulation by our government and greed at the top.

If you can admit the problem was caused by government, then why should you (or we) trust the government to fix it?

It is Unconstitutional for our government to get in bed with big business. Our founders made this illegal for a reason.

All that money was thrown at it from our Government and they still are going bankrupt. Couldn't we have just let them do that without putting our kids further in debt.

This is all about the sleazy labor unions and corrupt politicians that have a price to be bought. How transparent is this?

Jack Spratt, nothing would make me happier but I think we'll be seeing you in court. Sorry. My brother works at GM as an engineer and as of June 1, you're going to see some more substantial layoffs and closures. I would only predict one other scenario, if Obama's administration could somehow spin it so GM wouldn't have to go bankrupt and it was spun as BO as their savior - oh yeah, they'd do that in a minute. It would be the greatest wag-the-dog-spin performance of all time that they were coniving since firing Wagoner. OBAMA SAVES GM FROM BANKRUPTCY! ALL HAIL LORD B.O. OUR SAVIOR!

Jack Spratt-294911,

Not sure if you saw this, but Chrysler who is part of the very same UAW, already has, so why would he not, he has everything well planned, most everything has been agreed to, so it should be short and sweet, just like it looks like Chryslers is.

clickit45

That is when they will name the 14 plants to be shut down, and layoff 21,000 workers. But again no surprise, they said last year that they would need to do this. GM and Toyoata are very close in sales, yet GM has fully twice as many plants as Toyota.
/P>

But then they took the deal, anyway....doesn't make sense.

as many of these "Bond Holders" are actually business interests who now do not have any money or now even any sort of dividend income entering their companies what you want to be there will be a whole new round of layoffs. Probably not Union workers though so it should be OK, no lobby to concern ourselves with. They can just go on unemployment and wait for a new company to open up in their area as the GM providers they work for slowly and painfully go out of business.

either way this is a lose lose for everyone but the Government.

The lawyers will come out way better than anyone. They will be swimming in CASH not bonds or equity.

PanhandleMike,

You got that right, look at Chrysler filing, they have almost 300 pages of documents listed already, with 15 - 20 per page, and some of the actual documents are very large, so thousands of pages all prepared by lawyers at several hundred per hour.

Here, here.

MY 4RUNNER is paid for....only 150k miles...I'm keeping it!

Since over 50% of GM sales are trucks, don't look for them to be gone any time soon.

How long until we see the law that nobody is permitted to buy (or own) a vehicle getting less than 40MPG?

It's coming people...be afraid, be very afraid.

Neil

Actually what is in the works is a plan to TAX you according to the milage you drive in addition to the taxes you currenty pay at the gas pump. The dems are drooling over this idea claiming by TAXING miles driven will reduce the carbon emissions. Look for this to happen if the Cap & Trade bill goes through.

Also if this bill goes through, look for at a minimum 40% increase in you electric bill plus across the board price increases on everything you purchase.

You can thank BO for this.

Isn't change good?

can we change Barack for a REAL AMERICAN PRESIDENT? that would be change I can beleive in.

Plus James, the only way to track your mileage is to tag your car with GPS and have the Government know where you are, where you go, what you do at all times. As I used to say when I was in the service "big brother is alive and well and signs my paycheck every month".

Neil-798344,

Well untill they can built a work truck that can do that, it will not happen. The best reason, perhaps the only reason to save the big 3, is for the trucks they build. America need trucks, look at any construction site, or utility yard, you see nothing but big 3 trucks.

James Herman,

They have been talking about a mie tac since before the last election, and why not, give me a car that can go 50 miles on a battery, and will almost never go to the pump. and when they did talk about, it was to replace the current fuel tax, not on top of it.

Steve Papa,
GPS is a one way device, it does not transmit, it recieves. It would take a lot of memory to keep all the data for later transmission, so this is not something that could ever be builtin as a hidden "feature".

Well Robby, all it has to do is recieve and any service tech or truck driver can tell you his boss knows where he is at any time of day, and buy here/pay here car lots have devices that wont let you start your car if your late on a payment. And who aid it would be hidden, as Count Floyd would say "Aaaawwwooooo heh heh heh, wasn't that SCARY boys and girls". (little SCTV humor there) Oh , and don't forget, one Cray supercomputer can perform billions if not trillions of calculations a second, plenty of memory to enslave us all Bro. Peace

rmbscuba,

Obama has only been President since January 20th, just over 4 months. He was handed this economic disaster on that date, from the former President. Anyone who expects him to fix a $11 trillion national debt and the biggest economic disaster since the Depression, is a complete fool. You sound just like most of the totally uninformed fools in these replies.

To begin with, only one person that replied knows what socialism is. Obama and the Democrats do not want to create any socialist companies in our country. He does not want to create a socialist health system, Obama wants to start a health insurance program that individuals will have to pay monthly fees for , just like any other health insurance. We will get no where if you keep blaming Obama for something he did not start. We will only prevail when all of you start acting like adults.

Act like adults, you have got to be kidding.  I've been around for a long time, I have yet to see a Repub act like an adult..just whine and blame someone else for their mistakes

Well said ralph

I continue to see posts where people continue to point the finger at the current administration. When you point a finger, three are pointing back at you. We all wanted cheap cars, cheap electronics, cheap gadgets for the home, etc. All of that cheap stuff is made in places where they don't have unions. Where workers and the environment are not even thought about, just the bottom line. Well, we now see what the bottom line is. Americans can no longer afford the cheap stuff because we don't have any jobs. Our environment is teetering on not being able to afford all of the CO2 we're pumping into it. Unions were the only ones fighting to keep working wages. You can't support a family on $8.00 an hour. People complain about welfare. Those checks the sick, lame, or lazy recieve keep them from getting desperate and inventive. They are desperate and inventive in Mexico where they kidnap children so they can use the ransom to live. I'd rather have the money go to welfare. WE NEED SOLUTIONS not more people complaining about the problem. Oh, and stop shopping at Wal-Mart they are killing the US economy.

ralph

The above are facts. These are real life things occuring right now in this Country. If you think Obama and his Administration are going to with the flip of a switch revamp Health Care and all of a sudden it is affordable for everyone, you are mistaken. He and Clinton and the rest (Pelosi, reid, Dood, Franks, Meeks, Waters, Schumer, etc....) think Health Care is a Right. And people should have it free from the Government. Only one problem, who is going to pay for it? It seems America is tapped for Money. Just look at California and 47 other States who have Huge deficits.

And I don't blame only Obama, I blame every Politician for the last 50 years. It just so happens that Obama campaigned on Bush spending so much money during his 8 years. Do you realize Obama in just over 100 days has spent more than every President combined? How will we pay it back? China has cut our credit lines from about 65 to 14. WHY? Because they have absolutely zero faith in Obama, his policies and his spending.

Wait until Obama begins to tax the hell out of those who still have a job, Small Business Owners who are still around and the Corporations still operating in the U.S.A.

Wait until Obama and his newly selected Supreme Court Justice come out with their Amnesty Bill making 20 some million illegals legal and entitled to free Health care and other Government benefits.

Where will the 623,000 who just lost their job find work. What about those who lost their job the month before I'm sure they are employed by now. NOT!!!!

With 48 of 50 States running huge deficits, wait until you see the layoffs from each State.

Ralph, you can defend him all you want, but you can't hide from the true facts of what is occuring economically in this Country.

When you don't have any money, it is not the time to spend more than every President combined. When you are losing 500,000 to 700,000 jobs PER MONTH, it is not the time to TAX the SHI— out of everyone else when you are trying to create jobs. It is notthe time to give more Government freebies away (Health Care) and it is no the time to allow illegals to become legal. WE CANNOT AFFORD IT.

Your guy couldn't run a damn Paper Route and in just over 100 days, it is showing tremendously and drastically affecting Americans.

And finally, "We will only prevail when this President acts with Fiscal Responsibility", acting like an Adult has nothing to do with it. My two children who are both in College, but started saving when they were about 8 years old and could understand somewhat about savings, now each have about $25,000.00 saved each from small part-time jobs they have held while going to school and playing sports in High School. And I pay cash for both to attend college. How can I do this, because I lived what I preached to them. Fiscal responsibility. Something our President (And Past Presidents) know nothing about. Hell why should they, they are part of a system where Congress votes themselves a raise with our money. They have an open check book at our expense. And it doesn't matter what kind of job they do. They sure as hell don't represent the people. They only represent themselves and at our expense.

This President is bad bad news for America.

Pretend his name was Bush and I bet there wouldn't be enough time in a day, week, month or year to say the things about Bush the left says about him now.

Let the Tea Parties Begin, I have a feeling the numbers have grown Tremendously.

Do yourself a favor, put Fox News into the mix of where you get your news. I listen to as many channels as I can to get info. Much like I had to do when I was in Police Work. I had to get both sides of the story, then use common sense when it came to making arrests.

What are your solutions to the bullets in my blog? Remember, raising Taxes are not a Solution, just ask California.

Good Luck!

rmbscuba, great response! I feel exactly that way. I don't blame only Obama for what is going on here in our economy, I know he walked into a mess, but I am watching how he is trying to get us out of this, his way out is what I don't like. He is spending tooo much money! It really scares me and our bond market reflects this is felt through out the world. While I think allot of heads of states probably genuinely like Obama, their countries are not paying very good rates for our bonds, which means they have very little, to no confidence in out economic direction based on Obama's budgets and spending. People really need to see this, instead of looking at it from just a political perspective.

Ralph stop blaming Obama. I believe Bush and his republican party are the one to blame.

Keep going rmbscuba - keep posting that on every news article, every day until you are good and famou! Post on YouTube, Post on every blog! I'm absolutely serious!! I've already cut and pasted your write up to several people via email. KEEP FIGHTING!

States are broke because they waste money, and plan layoffs that taxpayers will be against. Here in NC they are broke,the counties are broke and so is the city, but the scholl system wants to keep its 1.2 billion dollar budget, so they say it will mean massive teacher layoffs. OK now lets at some items, one high school with a bill for photocopies of $50.000, at the contract rate of .01 cents per page, what the hell are they copying, they need to add staff for 2 new schools, ok no sense building two schools if they don't open, so 2 schools built for 50+ million dollars, that have not even opened yet, require 2 full time roofers, and 2 full time carpenters, each WHY, they are brand new, did they buy a roof with no warranty.
States are worse than car companies for poor management, and they can force you to pay for thier mistakes.

Hummmmmmm ............Want your tax dollars back????? Buy a GM.

hmmmm btco- NO WAY NO HOW.

That would be throwing good money at the UAW again. A failed proposition.

Lin-1128914,

So if socialism is saving the company, then what is when it closes, and you pay all the workers now sitting at home, and then pay them all for training in a new job, and pay thier health care, and help with the rent and mortgage, and pay other companies to come in and create jobs for them?

Guess you would have to read the fine print. I doubt the bond said it was 100% guaranteed in any way shape or form. It is not extortion it is the truth, they go to court they could very well end up with nothing. The only extortion here is that which the unions have always applied but is now biting them on the butt as well.

You totally miss the point, Willie.... In business 101 you learn about different types of stocks and everyone is tested on the order in which stockholders/creditors are taken care of when a company goes belly up. That is why preferred stock is called "preferred". Those stockholders get preferential treatment while common stockholders are last in line.

The point is what they would or wouldn't get. The point is that this administration is changing the basic rules of business in the U.S. through strong arm tactics that will leave every country on earth NOT wanting to do business with us. We are screwing our preferred bondholders who should be FIRST in line and putting them last. If I am China, the UK, or Japan why would I EVER now consider buying US bonds or debt? THe administration has already shown they will screw their own citizens, so they will screw us too. The government is basically setting all law and precedent aside and SEIZING a private company. There is no justification for this. WHen Hugo Chavez seized private companies in Venezuela the news ran stories about this act of a dictator. The EXACT same thing is now happening here, and there is barely any outrage. What will it take?

You are exactly right!!!! The reason for no outrage? It is a Democratically controlled Congress and White House and the press is in bed with them. While the republicans have had a strong hand in this, if it was in their control the press would be screaming your outrage. The U.S. government has basically thrown out the Constitution and no body seems to be rasing a finger and saying, "wait a minute". We need to be very careful here because a dangerous precent is being set and once the genie is out the bottle it will be very difficult to put her back in.

when Bushie and his cronies were wallowing through and running our debt through the ceiling I didn't see a whole lot from the press. In fact FOX really supported the debacle.

Hey Steve the genius- you win the prize!!

You have just stated the reason Bush had a 25% approval rating. Libs think it was because 75% agreed with them. It wasn't. 25% with libs, 50% who knew Bush did not do what he was put there to do. It sure wasn't to hand out money like candy, we have a party that has already perfected buying votes in this manner. Libs didn't need help giving the country away.

And...how are taxpayers going to feel when they find out that their tax dollars are going to pay a UNION salary. Which of course will be 20% above what they are bringing home a week.

bob-519223,

They have not ignored the rule of law, this is how it works, lawyers have it made. They make you an offer, it seems low, you want more, the lawyer looks you in the eye and says, remember you have to pay me, that extra 5% you want could drag out for a long time in court and I get paid well to go to court. Look at Chrysler, they have 3000 documents filed on the docket already, and that is a case with most on board.
When the judge asks, do you agree to this settlement, you can say yes or no, but remember not only will you be paying a lawyer, but until this case is resolved Chrysler is closed, they are not building any cars at all, and could be putting the supply chain at risk.

Get a divorce some day it works the very same way. Lawyers run this country, not politicians they just happen to all be lawyers too..

I saw same on TV news last night.....

I thought it was 19 that I saw, but yes they are closing plants, they have too, they have way too many. GM has twice as many plants as Toyota, yet both sell about the same number of vehicles.

Can someone please explain to me how this works? 21,000 are about to be laid off, not to mention the trickle down effect. All of this AFTER the billions of dollars from the government. Why could this not happen without the government money and involvement, especially if it was going to happen anyway? I am beginning to agree with everyone that says we are on the highway to socialism. What will be next and when??

Robbie, I understand the need to downsize, but I ask again, could this not happen without all of the government money and intervention??

They need to get production in line with demand, plain and simple. There will be more cuts and closures coming for sure.

what about the other million laid off with no severance package and a new car!

Craig-846111,

Without the bailout, they may all have been laid off,and without anything, GM is going to offer buyouts again, cash and a car voucher, depending on years service, so a lot of people will take that and run.
But again, they said this would be part of the plan fromday one, they talked about in congress last year.

The VEBA trust wins, not the union, it pays the health care so you don't get stuck with it.