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When Obama is impeached
He's only been there a few weeks. Rome wasn't built in a day. It took georgie porgie and his band of charlatans 8 years to run this country into the ground.
OR, After Bush is indicted, and the Madoff family goes to jail.
joe mammy, wasn't it a democratic president that said, "ask not what my country can do for me but ask what I can do for my country." Quit blaming blaming Bush and get off your butt and do something. I don't think it was the Bush administration that forced mortgage co's. to loan to people who couldn't afford to make the payments. I believe it was your "Buddy" franken and dodd, against the warnings of the Bush administration.
Right now I would just worry about keeping your head above water and quit dreaming of that day. The last depression lasted more than ten years!
"How will we know when economy hits bottom?"
it doesn't have to hit bottom that's what the president is trying to prevent...one of the news broadcaster made a excelent annalysis" this economy is like trying to caght nives"...it would be painful to caght them own your own or by hand but it can be done with strategy use something to sheild and stil stop the nive from hitting bottom...the stimuluos is use as a sheald from the fall now we all need to use any sheald avalable to help too... so stop waiting for it to hit bottom and stop the fall too...it would be a turn around for the economy....every one of you need to figure out how to stop your fall...your economy...your future prosperity...
your future prosperity depends on it...
We're in a downward spiral and traveling pretty fast but the bottom won't come until the President thinks up of another stimulus package to help the economy. I read where the failing economy has outpaced the stimulus package already. It has been suggested to inject more of the taxpayers money into the economy in order to keep up with the downward spiral. The bottom will come after the NEXTstimulus has been approved and exhausted. Sorry folks, that's just the way it is. How could we have been so gullible to believe the President to start out with. I feel like an IDIOT.
I served my country for 16 years in the USMC. I lost a leg and an eye for my country. What have you done for this great country, floyd?
"How will we know when economy hits bottom?"
when you make a profit from your business...it is reversing the economy and is now growing....so figure our how to make profits again...the bottom will be different for every one...it will depend on particular skills to ride and make the best out of what you have to work with...if you have a job keep it if need a job get one... self employed yourself produce, distribute, and earn...grow....the economy will recover with you...
Mammie, O is is faster at it that Bush. He is going to takes to Hell, in the fast lane.
arebrown
"The republicans-DRONES making what they do better : spreading HATE"
And of course you showed "nothing but love" for Bush for the last 8 years, right?
Interesting statistic:
"Since 1932, the S&P 500 has gained an average of 46 percent in the year after stocks have hit a bottom."
Sounds like those in the stock market (I'm not) should consider hanging tight.
The next bubble to burst will be the bond market...and then the dollar will collapse soon after!! I can see the pictures now of Germany in the Weimer Republic days (1920's) with people pushes wheel barrels full of cash just to buy a loaf of bread!!
Give it a rest... As if 4 more years of the bush-league would have been better... Hey we know its the bottom when CNBC tells us to sell more stock and hold the funds in the fairy dust accounts (Madoff funds - etc...) They ALWAYS know how to invest!!!!!
It will end when we finally get someone competent in charge that will concentrate on fixing the economy instead of spending billions on pork and pie in the sky projects.
The current problems were brought about by three main things and a lot of little ones. The little ones would not have caused any real problems but they are helping to keep the hell bound train rolling. The three things that caused this mess in the first place were our excessive dependence on foreign energy sources, compelling lending institutions to make loans to people that simply didn't have the financial means to repay them and the unregulated use of Credit Risk Swaps by financial institutions to help cover their losses.
The energy market for several years was in a rising price spiral brought on by tightening supplies, increasing global demand and futures speculation. Many people found that their energy bills had doubled or even tripled in some areas and these out of control costs drained their budgets of money that was needed to pay existing debts and mortgages.
Add the escalator clauses of the ARMs that these same people used to finance their houses with and you have a "double whammy" that started the collapse of the "sub-prime" housing market. As more and more homeowners defaulted, the foreclosures began to glut the housing market and forced a downward price spiral of all properties. This simply made it more difficult for those people who were still solvent to refinance their homes since the current market value of their home was now, more often than not, less than the balance of their existing loans.
The deathblow to the economy came when all the financial entities that had purchased Credit Risk Swaps tried to cash them in to cover the failure of the Mortgage Backed Securities. The companies (like AIG) that had issued them simply didn't have the cash reserves to honor their commitments and the system began to collapse.
With the financial institutions struggling to stay affloat, the credit market dried up almost overnight and companies found that they were unable to maintain lines of credit that they needed to fund ongoing operations. As a result, they began laying off people as a cost cutting measure since they couldn't keep paying them. Now, those people are beginning to go into default and the circle will continue to perpetuate itself until we do something to break it.
The fix for the problem while not simple is fairly basic. Begin an immediate initiative to develop more domestic energy sources. This means increased drilling for fossil fuels in the short term and funding research for alternatives in the long term. Price stability in the energy market is a key factor in any recovery plan.
Next, provide incentives and funding guarantees to lending institutions that are proactive in providing lines of credit to responsible businesses and private borrowers. Withhold taxpayer resources from those institutions that don't contribute. Have the government buy up existing foreclosed properties from the lenders at a fair valuation to stabilize the market value and organize a rental system to offset the cost until a workable system can be put in place to return the properties to private ownership.
The government should immediately put a freeze on all ARM escalator clauses and institute a moratorium on foreclosures. Set in place a process to convert high interest ARMs to conventional loans at a fair rate and abolish ARMs and Balloon notes from now on. They need to revisit the laws that allowed Credit Risk Swaps and relaxed lending standards to come about in the first place and close the loopholes.
And last but not least, put some real money in peoples pockets. None of this $400 or $800 business but more like $5000. This kind of stimulus will go into the economy almost immediately and will help jump start the retail sector which will begin adding jobs and making orders for more goods and services that will move up the chain.
Instead we're pouring money down multiple corporate toilets and into social feel good programs that will have little or no impact on the real problem. If we don't fix the causes of the problem, all the good intentions in the world won't save us.
gee, is it true the color of the sun in your world is blue...we just suffered through the worst 8 freaking years any administration has blundered through and when idiot II was warned, or questioned about thequintessential assinine direction that he was embarking the country upon, we got cute simpleton statements such as: 'fuzzy math', or 'voodoo economics', or 'imminent danger' or 'weapons of mass destruction', or 'i am the great decider!'...
so you sit alone with your alcoholic beverage, sipping away while gazing at your blue sun and wondering what the hell happened to the good ole days (...and boys): truth of the matter is: simple statements issued by a stupid man embraced simpletons such as yourself so easily that you didn't even realize that you weren't even kissed...
I agree with you, were are in good times, now. This is what we needed.
Seen Enough,
Murray Rothbard and the Austrians have absolutely no viable solutions. They believe that laissez faire and the pschology of economics will win the day. For this to occurr we need to accept the total collapse of the middle classes of the US and Europe so that we can reach competitive parity, this is idiotic. Austrian economics will make it the Indian and Chinese Millenium who have huge cash reserves and endless cheap labor, the US and Europe will revert to almost feudal states with the top 5-15% controlling all wealth and the middle class eliminated, laissez faire is the ultimate supply side, no regulation, no unions, no child labor restrictions , no social services net, no OSHA, No social security just every man for himself. No thanks!
JKHayes
You are an IDIOT if you don't understand the President's words, "It's going to get worse before it gets better!" Seems like you're the kind of idiot who I see cutting in and out of traffic on a slippery road. You just don't understand the laws of momentum or inertia. The car doesn't stop AS SOON AS you apply the brakes, guy!
I see now you just didn't understand what you (electorate) were doing when you re-elected the party of the rich on a whim! That was smart. You thought that if you elected the party that favored the rich it meant that everybody who wanted to would become rich. That was smart!
It's like the car is out of control (Bush), then you apply the brakes (O) and you find out you don't have any brakes (Pelosi).
When republicans start jumping out windows. I know that won't predict the bottom but it sure would cheer a lot of people up.
Maybe a bunch of Democraps will break our fall, that includes my Hubby.
God Bless 'Joe Mammy' and the rest of the brave men and women who serve / or served in our armed forces. They are the true heroes of our time. They put their lives on the line for us Americans. They don't care which side of the aisle you sit on. They live the real truth. The rest of us just make up our own 'truths' to help us whitewash the real truth.
PS: I learned the real truth many years ago in the cold winter of '44 in the Ardennes. I'm too old to fight now, but I still got fight in my heart!
Louis ?You are an IDIOT if you don't understand the President's words, "It's going to get worse before it gets better!" Seems like you're the kind of idiot who I see cutting in and out of traffic on a slippery road. You just don't understand the laws of momentum or inertia. The car doesn't stop AS SOON AS you apply the brakes, guy"
It is more correct to say the Obama knows the truth that what he is doing is not going to be as effective as he is claiming it will be. His big talk is catching up to him.
You can't make things better when you ARE NOT APPLYING THE BRAKES AT ALL!!!
Jim Hayes once again you have NO DAMN CLUE what you are talking about when you describe the Austrian business thought as laissez faire. To be honest I'm sick of you spouting your ignorant comments!!
Keynesian economics assumes that demand is everything for economic growth. Supply-side economics assumes that supply is everything for economic growth.
In contrast, Austrian economics assumes that freedom is everything for economic growth – a freedom that denies the legitimacy of government-created monopolies called central banks....like the FEDERAL RESERVE!!!!!!
Keynesian economists are therefore optimistic: Westerners are buying. Supply-side economists are equally optimistic: Chinese workers continue to accept China’s central bank policies that transfer a large share of the workers’ output to Western debtors.
In contrast, Austrian economists – at least those who actually believe what Ludwig von Mises wrote about the business cycle – are not optimistic, because central bank monetary inflation have created an international economic boom, which must inevitably be followed by an international economic bust.
Hell, I could go on and on with the differences. Mr. Hayes...please learn the damn facts sir!!!!
Oh...and please don't get me started on your icon Paully the Clown Krugman!!
RC - You think you know more than almost 80% of the US population? The People elected the New President and made a fine choice. If you're a Bu@!$%#e than you are the problem and should take the ridicule of everyone who has lost their house or their job. The recession began 15 months ago under Mr. Bush's watch and you have the gall to open your big mouth about the Democrats. You should be ashamed.
It's a good thing you can be anonymous on this blog.
So, just give me a time table of when it will be O and Nancy's watch.
Did you work for Saddam?
Wow, that was painful to read.
Question: When will we know when the economy has bottomed out?
Answer: When the only people who have jobs are the government workers
You will know we have hit bottom when Washington is burning and there is a lot of gun fire outside your window!
whats it going to take to get our govt. back to what it was created for we the people. and if you don't like it, move. by bama and biden and pelosi the twat by barney the fat fa** he's an irratating clot. and worse then that he makes the real barney dinosaur be his big "top", by schumer and clinton and fienstien to, you know she and hillbilly had a torid affair and pelosi wanted them both to share.............pass this along and add to it
I don't buy into Jim Hayes principles of economics, but I will say when this depression, (oh, I meant to say recession) is done, we will have far fewer middle-class Americans. We are about to enter a period of deflation and anybody with cash will be King! It will definitely separate the classes more in the US - no doubt about it! Go back in time and see who had money to buy new cars in the 1930's, who could afford college educations, etc. America will survive, but the landscape will be different.
Jekell is right about Germany in the '20's. This time we dont need to worry about the Nazi's coming to power - they are allready there
Get ready for it: "It's Coming". You will see folks walking, hungry, in the streets of the United States of America. Ohhhh, Sorry: Thats happening right now. Ooops
It only took six days to burn! And on the seventh day Obama rested.
Moron city today folks but read this.
From 1991 thru 2008 Japan had a gov’t stimulus program. The US economy is not identical to the Japanese but there are similarities. The US is roughly twice as large an economy as Japan. Experts in Japan and the US believe Japan spent too much money on infrastructure and not enough on education and social services which create more jobs per $ spent than infrastructure. JAPANESE STATISTICS: every yen spent on infrastructure added 1.37 yen, 1.6 yen for social services like care for the elderly, pension payments, 1.74 for schools and education. However money spent on infrastructure does put people to work and thus may help prevent a depression or total collapse. These figures are from The Japanese Institute of Local Government, a non-profit policy research group.
The stimulus worked best from 1991 to 1995 when Japan spent two trillion dollars for a 3% rise in Japanese GNP. An equivalent effort for the US would be four trillion dollars, Our present stimulus plan is only $780 billion.
The experts believed in a quick massive stimulus with a follow-up at a lower level for some time, till recovery takes root. Japanese experts thought that the stimulus was cut back in 1995 to a lower level too soon. Some experts thought that this is what happened to FDR in the US causing the 1937 recession. To be effective the stimulus must be kept going for some time. The Japanese stimulus was started up again but at a lower level than the original start. The second stimulus start showed little effect though it was continued for 10 years.
Japan’s economy did grow from 2003 to 2007. Japanese experts think that what helped the Japanese economy the most was the gradual rebuilding of private balance sheets and banks liquidity, and increased exports to China and the US. Japan experts strongly recommended projects that would be helpful fora number of years. They emphasized transparent decisions based on economics not politics.
You know some people rant and rave and prove they know absolutely nothing. Their rant is a thinly diguised hate message because the lost or have another agenda. They claim things are one thing while they are absolutely another. Some of us read and learn things like what worked for successful country's who have been down the road we now face. Turns out one Country is Japan. Probaly Obama and his economists did also as the stimulus package they presented is very close to the formula that was used in their recovery. The one thing missing is exprts from our shores as we are not in the same position as the Japanese. A mixture of export and American manufacturing to produce some of our own products is also needed. So much for the PORK red herring.
Spread,
Japan, the world's second largest economy, has suffered from a prolonged period of stagnation and malaise since 1991. Subpar growth, failing banks, plummeting real estate and stock prices, deflation, unprecedented unemployment, and huge government liabilities have persisted, despite extraordinary fiscal and monetary policy fixes.
Not my words, taken from: “Reviving Japans Economy” written by 16 top American and Japanese experts. Hardly sounds like the panacea you portray.
Spread,
P.S. It has become rather boring and inconsequential to label dissenting views as rants, raves or hate mongering not to mention your opening characterization of “moron city today”. Rather childish and adds nothing to the discourse.
Now, that is job security......
Jeykll,
Rothbards Ethics of Liberty regarding colonial development is his best work, Economy and State not so much it is a rehash of Mises Human Action. If you seriously believe the Federal Reserve System, The European Central Banks, the State Run Chinese System and the Japanese are going to go away and let the markets psychology regulate it and for profits to approximate interest rates you are out of your mind. Their is no proof anywhere that the Austrian model works , it denies mathematical modeling it denies the role of the state in economics, it denies managed currencies, it ignores global economic differences and has as much chance of solving economic woes as if we all shout out " I do believe in Fairies".
JKHayes
Seen Enough,
I do not believe the people who complain about social security and government services have any idea what the world was like before them. Read a history of what life was like for the average American or European after they could no longer work. Post work life expectancy was about five years and only the wealthy and upper middle class could care for their aging parents. Children and the aged were the most susceptible but the random bank or crop failure could devestate an entire community. States like Louisiana and Fla. would become rural backwashes without disaster relief, the Southwest and parts of California would be arid wastelands without, rural electrification and Water management like the Hoover Dam. These projects were fought as make work projects and a waste of taxpayers money. Decendants of those same people now fight to stop the 21st century versions of those same problems. Programs must be fixed and financial obligations met not a continuation of moronic tax policy and the deficits don't matter approach of Reagan and Bush.
JKHayes
Hey Jim..what type of "mathematical modeling" do you speak of...would that be running up a $13 Trillion debt and a $800 Billion trade deficit??? Would that be the "modeling" that our fractional reserve banking system offers??? Would that be the "modeling" that we use to pay $600 Billion in interest to the FED just for our OWN money? Or would that be the "modeling" that Bernanke and other Keynesian economists used to enable them to predict this crisis...ummm not!!! The truth is that you know nothing of the Austrian business cycle.
The Austrian school has so much more to offer than a theory of the boom-bust cycle. It has value theory, property theory, price theory, a compelling logic for understanding the entire microeconomic foundation of the science, a methodological case to make for deductive theory, production and capital theory, a case for the origin and function of interest, as well as contributions to trade theory, industrial organization and antitrust, a vast historiography that turns the mainstream on its head, a huge and innovative critique of war and of interventionist and socialistic states – as well as a passion for liberty as the foundation of social development.
You can detect the absence of sound theory in the terms used to debate the policy response. On the one hand, everyone seems to agree that reckless lending is the source of the problem. On the other hand, they are proposing more reckless lending as the solution to the problem. It is as Hayek said: proposing to cure a poisoning with more poison.
Does anyone really believe that bailing out the system is the answer? Perhaps a few weeks ago, there were still some policymakers who believed that. But when the billions and trillions have failed to do anything but prop up zombie companies, it becomes clear that these bailouts will not have and cannot have any positive macroeconomic effects.
Governments can pretend to be effective in a host of ways. They can ban products for "our own good." They can march around overseas and claim to be killing bad guys. They can say they are protecting you from poverty at both ends of life. But one thing that government cannot do, and very obviously cannot do, is stop prices that want to fall from falling, all else remaining equal.
So I say again Jim...please do some more reading into the subject instead of only wanting to continue the FAILED policies of the past!!
Jeykll,
You always bring up what the Austrians say can happen, my disagreement is not with the theory behind it my disagreements are that it is Utopian. World governments and financial institutions are expected to cede there roles as economic engines to adhere to a theory that has never been operational. Under what set of circumstances can you see the US, EU, Russia, China, Japan and the Sheiks agreeing to monetary parity and self regulating markets, holding out hope for a system that will never be operational unless all markets collapse is a waste of time. Politics is the art of the possible and dealing with the possible. We will always disagree, in that I believe following responsible Keynesian economic policies, Europe, Australia/New Zealand, Japan and the US had the greatest middle class expansion and relief of misery in world history. Everything from technology and science to infrastructure and education advanced at an unparalled level. It was only the continuation of the Reagan/Thatcher economic policies that got us here. Supply side as a corrective adjustment can work to increase wealth over a short period but is entirely non sustainable. The deficits, job losses and income redistribution ALWAYS lead to recession or worse. Markets especially if they are to be Global recquire regulation, the forces that drive different markets are not even similar assuming that all markets and societies have an underlying sameness is completely unproven.
JKHayes
Jim...did we always have a central bank? NO! Was the Bank of England (central bank) operational before the FED was created? YES! We don't need a central bank to keep pace with the rest of the world. The truth is that the biggest expansion of the middle class was between 1870 and 1910...when we had no central bank. Also...there is NO such thing as responsible Keynesian economic policy. Also your notion that we had the greatest relief in world history during this time is a shameful statement. The central banks of the world have been responsible for paying for all the wars in the 20th century by inflation. The 20th century saw the most suffering in world history!!
It was only the continuation of the Reagan/Thatcher economic policies that got us here.
What?? See...you have no knowledge of how the Federal Reserve works do you?? You have no knowledge of how the FED manipulates interest rates, fixes prices, and artificially inflates the money supply. You only blame greed and deregulation...which is like blaming a plane crash on gravity!! My question to you is what enabled this type of atmosphere to create all this malinvestment? What caused the tech bubble? What caused the housing bubble? The truth is that the free market would NEVER of allowed interest rates to stay low or allow the artificial increase in the money supply. And then you have the nerve to blame deregulation policies when Fannie and Freddie are the MOST REGULATED agencies. Now I'm not saying that we don't need any regulation, but when we have a system that rewards bad/risky behavior like we have...there is no incentive for these banks/companies to change course because they know that the U.S. tax payer will be FORCED to prop them up!! This is a disgrace!!
Jekyll,
I fully understand how the reserve system works and I often wish it had been created otherwise. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are regulated and if the rest of the financial markets had continued to operate under Glass Steagal and Phil Gramm and his pals hadn't deregulated and then follwed it up with The Commodities Futures Modernization Act we would be in far better shape to withstand this onslaught. Fannie and Freddie are estimated to hold 15% of the bad paper this is manageble it is the 85% in the private sector which is not and that mess is a dierect result of de-regulation.
JKHayes
Look, here's how it works: first your tax dollars will pay to prop up and bail the carnival barkers out.
Then the power players will glean all the info they can with the gov't data supplied by you, the tax payer, 3 months before you get to see it.
The carnival barkers and power players will then get to set all their bets way in advance of you knowing a thing.
They will then start to tell you how rosy everything has become, and make you jump on the good news that isn't really news to them.
They will cash in on you, and the whole cycle will repeat itself, with you average joes losing every time.
The moral: don't bail these hoodlums out, ever. And for Pete's sake, the criminals charge you fees for using a friggin ATM machine out of bank, why not demand they pay some hefty fees for all of this gov't supplied data we produce for them.
The story says: "The Dow is in free fall, jobs are vanishing every day, and one in eight American homeowners is in foreclosure or behind on payments."
I hope this is an overstatement. Please check the facts. I have:
90 million total residential houses in US.
45 million have mortgages. Surprising that 50% own homes outright,
5.4 million mortgages are behind or in foreclosure.
Additionaly:
9 million owe more than appraised value of home. Can't refinance.
2.2 million have equity but less than 5% equity left. Can't refinance.
So, as bad as that is, 1 in 16 is behind or in foreclosure -not 1 in 8. Right??
And don't that if 8% are unemployed, 92% ARE employed.
doesn't mean 92% are employed either...some of that numbers means people don't get unemployment anymore and some of that 92% just finally quit looking for a job and will go to welfare and medicaid for help. So don't give that 92% much consideration...it's Wrong.
Yeah! Chris, but those figures still have meaning because if it's always and CONSISTENTLY wrong (not the same thing), that still gives us an idea as to our situation compared to yesterday, or yesteryear, capiche!
Since they count everyone who gets a paycheck ever week or two weeks its wrong. A McDonals Burger King 20 hors a week or Walmart job does not pay the rent. They also count temporary employees in the mix. The do not count you if you have exhausted your unemployment. Figure it around 15-16% and you have a real number. Add ito that jobs that do not make a living wage I/E can you afford a place to live the electric bill etc on what you make and buy the vare necessities and it is much higher.Its a catch 22 situation. We destroyed our manufacturing base then exported jobs to other country's bought foregin goods instead of producing our own and employing our own people then turned a blind eye to illegals so businesses could make larger profits. Now we are basing the economy on 80% consumer spending and the very people who are working week to week paychecks are getting laid off right and left so we are killing the very consumers we are depending on to keep the ball in the air. A true recipe for disaster.
Henry Ford gave his employees a raise and when asked why he said so they can afford to buy my cars. The real rich people in America are heirs. Very few of them have had to start a business from the ground up buying or building a plant equiping it and hiring workers. It is easier and possibly more profitable to buy the stuff from China or some other country have a bunch of temps unload the containers then have people on the floor stock the shelves and sell the stuff who work for 20 hours a week make no overtime and are replaced by temporary's whenever possible.
The psychology of most consumer/saver's will have turned positive by August 10, 2016 at which time universal health care will have been in effect for several years, new financial regulations will have been adopted, and people will have started to feel a sense a shame for appearing to be greedy, selfish, dishonest, and materialistic. Maybe.
We already have universal health care. Come out to California and watch all the illegal aliens being cared for in our hospitals at no charge.
What are the statistics of new doctors where they have national health care? Just wondering, do you think more students will train to be doctors under a national health care or fewer. Will foreign doctors who train here and stay here be more willing to go home to their own native country than stay here where they get a national salary? There are still private doctors for the rich who can afford them and the rest of us go to national doctors. How do doctors feel about a national health care?
Future doctor here, less than 2 years away - I love national healthcare, no doctor would ever want a private insurance company rejecting a claim to treat a patient. I lived in Canada and I am going to school in the U.S., I will be going back up to Canada once I am finished. In Canada, doctor's get to decide the treatment, not some waste of flesh insurance agent who has at best an associate's degree.
I love national health care, too.
I'll likely be paid under $ 250,000 per year. Going to save some taxes.
I'll be doing shift work at 40 hours a week, not the 100 hours I spend now.
Hope you jackasses can find a doctor on the second and third shift who can tie his own shoelaces.
When deflation finally rolls back prices to a reasonable level most people can pay.
True, but it takes a whole lot of unemployed people to produce the deflation. It also means the employed will take home less to keep their businesses and jobs competitive. Net gain for the employed? Maybe.
It need not be that grim. The reduced EXPECTATIONS, have already set in, former executives are already working as janitors. Retailers are content with lower profits, in order to stay in business, and employees are willing to work for lower wages. So hopefully the prices will come down BEFORE we are all totally broke.
The problem is that the only two remaining things blocking a lower cost of living are, without the bad things associated with deflation, like a depression, are (1) health costs, and (2) education costs. The conservatives would rather have the country FAIL, than for government to "succeed" in bringing down these costs. Even though, students have to demand higher wages to pay for their college loans, and HALF OF ALL BANKRUPTCIES are caused by health costs and 3/4 of these bankrupts already have insurance. I've personally already undergone the health care costs experience. (My late wife was a nurse, and when she was dying of cancer, Blue Cross/ Blue Shield dropped her coverage because her treatment cost them too much. I had to take her to Barbados because as a dual citizen she was entitled to free care there.) Pray that a family member doesn't contract cancer, my friend, whether you have insurance or not.)
Gulp..........................
How do you get deflation with the government pouring new dollars into the system?
Isn't that INFLATION?
So how do you reconcile your suggestion with the fact that deflation is not on the table now?
DaneLover - sorry for the delay in answering.
There is great corrolation between rising unemployment and deflation. A recovery generates inflation. Of course, printing money would hide the deflation with a bigger inflation.
7/08 inflation was at 5.6% - unemployment rate 5.7%
1/09 inflation was at 0.03% - unemployment rate 7.8%
Next tiny step is actual deflation. Probably when the updated figures come out we will see it has already happened. It will continue as long as unemployment increases.
Louis-341878
(My late wife was a nurse, and when she was dying of cancer, Blue Cross/ Blue Shield dropped her coverage because her treatment cost them too much. I had to take her to Barbados because as a dual citizen she was entitled to free care there.) Pray that a family member doesn't contract cancer, my friend, whether you have insurance or not.)
My wife died of cancer in 96. Had Blue Cross/ Blue Shield too. They paid the bills fine - the doctors screwed up. Not that it matters then, but you find out when you are old, you are not worth much. Lawyers won't sue because what was the loss? She was retired, no kids to support, not many years left.. Yes, there are many ills and injustices.
Sorry for your loss. Which shall we take out first, insurance companies, doctors, or lawyers?
The wave of credit card debt has yet to come ashore with the tsunami of defaults on student loans rolling in. The bottom will be DOW at 3,000 before the end of this year and it will take 10 years to recover. Sorry to be so pessimistic. Save your money and live on cash if you hope to survive.
Good Advice Anne and good prediction for the Dow! I believe you are right on with your numbers! We're only have way to the bottom and it will take many years to recover from this. Pay off as much debt now as fast as you can because it will be your only hope of survival. This is a Depression and what most are not realizing is that the market doesn't crash all at once, it's a steady downward spiral.
Seen Enough,
Student Loans and guarantees raised us in thirty short years to the most educated nation extant with the most skilled workforce on the planet. This ended in the early 80s with Mr Reagans bedtime stories of welfare mothers drivind cadillacs and student loan defaulters living in mansions. These tales and the excorable directing of wealth upward is what has brought us low. Lies become realities it is not the Northeast or California which drain our coffers it is those good old red states that average $1.40-$1.50 in Federal Monies for every tax dollar paid. States like Michigan and Illinois Pay in $1.00 for a $0.70 return. Auto workers in Detroit pay so that states like Mississipi, Alabama, Alaska, North Dakota, Louisiana, S. Carolina and Tennessee can get between $1.30 and $2.15 per dollar paid.
A college educated citizen will pay in twice the amount in taxes as their less well educated counterparts, no matter how many default higher education is aleays a net positive for society. If everyone defaulted their would be a net zero , defaults on student loans rose through the seventies and eighties but reached almost 20% by the 90s because grants were fundamentally eliminated for the moderate to middle income student and emphasis shifted to one and two year technical institutes which got funding for students with no entrance criteria and drop out rates over 50%. The idea tha financing higher education is a drain is another supply side myth.
JKHayes
Don't go by Japan, with the 10 year forecast for our recession. Yes, they've done all the things we plan on doing, and more, but still haven't recovered yet. The one thing they don't have going for them is population mass, critical mass. The USA has twice the population of Japan, twice the local market for local products, so the economy should achieve take off, again, much faster. The difference is not proportionate either it's probably geometric, but metrics are not my strong suit, so don't quote my numbers.
With that in mind. The only reason China and India are still not wiping the floor with us is that their populations are relatively underdeveloped. Because of their massive size, the problem of funding health and education for the masses remains huge for them. I hate to say it, but in terms of a modern economy, the USA has lost the advantage it gained when it introduced free high school education. It has balked at the next step. Free tertiary education. That's half of the reason why we are in trouble today.
Anne - Right on; excellent post! Credit card defaults are next in line.....
Credit Cards are the next big problem, and it is going to be unbelievable. It is a lot easier to throw a piece of plastic in the garbage and say "I am not going to pay", than it is the family dwelling, or transportation.. Plastic is cheap, and if the government is going to take care of ALL of us, lol, then good credit won't matter.
Anne: I agree. I don't have any credit card debt (thank you, Lord). This will be the next wave of disaster as people just go under with those outrageous fees and interest. I hope that there is a collective implosion to the credit card companies as they deserve it. My sister is not stupid but she is $41,000 in cc debt. I haven't worked since Sept. 2008 so I stopped paying my student loan. When I have a job, I will continue to pay. Otherwise, fuch them.
Did we really think that we could outsource millions of jobs without any affect? These jobs are not coming back and as long as we outsource at a faster rate than we create this depression will be here for a long time.
As long as labor unions continue to price our products out of the market, we'll continue to outsource. American union members earning $60 an hour can't compete with Japanese workers earning half that much.
You're right of course, as I've been writing on Newsvine for months. We now have the opportunity to leap ahead with new technologies, whilst the inevitable decline in prices and expectations, will make us competitive again.
We need however to reduce the costs of key factors in the economy, BEFORE these prices are forced down by the more sinister reality of deflation. In other words it is better to force these costs down NOW that some people are still viable, than to wait for them to be forced down because everybody is poor.
The three most expensive things a successful middle-class family has to spend money on are, FIRST, health, SECOND, housing, and THIRD education. We spend more money per capita on health and education than ANY OTHER NATION IN THE WORLD, yet we are not amongst the first ten in terms of measured results. We are 46th in longevity, 20th in infant mortality, and below the first ten in education.
Obama understands that health and education costs are the second and third biggest factor in our inflated cost of living. If we can bring down the cost of living then we will be able sell more of our goods and services more cheaply, both at home and abroad. This means we will import less and sell more. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY WE CAN STOP THE BLEEDING IN OUR ECONOMIC SYSTEM.
A service economy produces servants. What we are in right now started with the dumb trade agreements NAFTA, GAT,etc. HOW ON EARTH CAN WE COMPETE BESIDES WAGES, WE HAVE SS INSURANCE COSTS FOR WORKERS, HEALTH INS.,RETIREMENT BENEFITS, STATE SALES TAX, Employment TAX, POLLUTION TAX, MEDICARE TAX, STATE IMPOSED UNEMPLOYMENT TAX. What is actually happening is the collapse of the American dollar and economic engine. The bottom is not yet in sight.
DJ-867199
What makes anyone think that getting rid of unions will land any their wishes? This is America the most Capitalist of Capitalist nations, it's not Japan!
Outsourcing and Offshoring are driven by corporate greed not unions.They don't discriminate. All the tech boom jobs that got shipped off 10 years were non union.Only a small percentage of textile and furniture jobs were union.When Corporations quit giving a s**t about long term goals, market share or any thing but profit margins was the start of what we are seeing the repercussions of now.Profit should be a component of a successful business but not it's reason for being.
couldn't agree with you more Fred , and this economy will continue to snowball down hill until Americans are working again, outsourcing and corporate greed has taken us down this path.
Fred G. - You nailed it. When CEOs are driven by stock price (hint: stock bonus), they do not care what labor provides the service or product as long a profit and share price are increased!
Isn't it great to have Louis explain economics to us. Phooey...............................
Louis,......... The extraneous costs of health care, that is what it costs to deliver it to you, include exhorbitant "medical malpractice" premiums to hospitals and doctors; 50 % of health care insurance premiums extracted by insurance companies to "administer" health care; and the cockammy Liberal idea 47 million citizens have no health insurance-------but they are all treated free in the ER courtesy of the the folks who do pay their health insurance.
Why does it cost more than $ 100,000 to "educate" a college student so he/she can work in a job paying $ 50,000- $ 100,000 per year. Who got this cost upside down? Could it be FEDERAL loan guarantees?
Transferring personal costs, such as health and education to the FEDERAL government dosen't lower the costs. It simply transfers who pays the costs for all.
Yep, you guessed it. THE RICH. Hope you did the math on this, because there are not enough RICH to pay the costs, even if you "taxed" (stole) all their income.
"Profit should be a component of a successful business but not it's reason for being. "
Thank-you American Federation of Teachers and Propagandists.
Can you see what you have created? A reasonably intelligent man with who can't make change in a candy store.
The "reason for being", as if this was a teleological fact, of a business is to sell or exchange a product or service. During the transaction, the business must expect to receive more in the exchange than it cost him/her to produce the product or service. Otherwise, he is giving away his effort.
The difference between exchange price and cost of production is PROFIT.
No profit, no business. " A reason for being" becomes a moot argument.
Free trade, man it's all about free trade. Free trade is Orwellian term that really means bad deal for the USA. When are we going to get out of the false left right paradigm and stand up to the NWO
Fred G,
Do yourself a favor, if you go to a job interview, DO NOT tell a prospective employer your thoughts about why his business should exist.
Dane:
Isn't it incredible the number of supposedly educated people in this country who can't even understand basic economics? They buy a foreign company's car because it's cheaper and then they blame management of US automakers for the loss of jobs in this country. Acertain percentage of the population just will never get it. They don't want to hear the truth. Profit is a dirty word to liberals, and the one thing that keeps American businesses going. Without, they close.
To Louis. Obama IS bringing down the cost of living in the US. But it won't help health care when no one has a job to pay taxes to pay for the health care. It won't really matter, because other countries will own us by then and have us over a barrel.
Hello Third World Country!
A good number of people are still employed. If this is a depression, it's not as bad and 1929
No, we are in a Depression! We are not any where near the bottom yet! The government is lying about the unemployment numbers and it will only get worse, at least until the end of 2009. The market will drop another 50% ( based on 1929's numbers) and the true unemployment ( which is now estimated at 15% - the government doesn't calculate the numbers like they did in 1929 - will hit at least 25%)
Recovery - Name any positive things you can about the economy - There is none right now - You can't have a recovery without positive signs - It's just impossible.
Un-Common Common Sense
Bush is gone!!!
D in TX
Don't compare the present situation, which is still in progress, with the peak of The Great Depression. When all is said and done then you can make a legitimate comparison.
Low inflation and interest rates,uncommon.
Yeah, all my Texas relatives say it is just fine down there - good for them. But, just because it is great in Texas doesn't mean the rest aren't in real trouble with loss of jobs, etc. My Texas relatives also keep blathering about unions too, but have never worked in a factory (my husband did and so does my daughter). Although they don't always agree with their union, they realize that without it, they would be pawns (we call it pee-ons). Unions didn't come about because employers were so nice to their workers! Read 1880 history about the rise of unions and you will realize that unions brought us many things that most people take for granted today. It is no surprise that greedy corporate giants fought them, just like they like to blame unions today for what is going on - Oh we had to send your job overseas, we want to make more profit! Yeah, unions didn't make the changes they needed too, but are still necessary. Especially if they make sure that everyone working there is an AMERICAN.
It was autoworkers who first talked about keeping everything American. People said they just wanted to keep their jobs. What they didn't realize was that we were talking about EVERYTHING, not just cars. Too late, everybody is now waking up to realize that most of our jobs went overseas, not just the union people's. My daughter studied to be a computer electronics technician. Just before graduation, the college told her those jobs were gone overseas and she had to change her major. So she went to work in an auto factory - couldn't afford not to work anymore since she had a family by then.
Now since she will be laid off indefintely at the end of March, she hopes to get retraining so she can work at something other than McDonald's again. Of course, a lot of the conservatives will say that is 'pork' - doesn't sound like pork to me, sounds sensible to retrain people who are losing their jobs.
People, don't be so quick to call something that will benefit us in the long run 'PORK'. Job retraining is not pork, nor is health care, nor is help for the long term unemployed. If you were in their shoes, you may understand.
Rarely do I agree with Uncommon Sense, but he correct - we are no where near the bottom. And D in TX, when 7-11 starts laying off folks, that is when you know it is bad!
Uncommon.....................
The richness of a man is measured by his character not by the size of his bank account.
Uncommon,
Could you share with the rest of us where you got your more accurate unemployment figures rather than just throw a cow pie on the table and move on?
Linda,
I am a degreed engineer with over 30 years experience and I live in Texas. Several years ago, I was unemployed for about a year and a half. During that time, I built decks, built fences, remodeled homes, mowed yards, did odd jobs……in other words I got out there and scratched to get by. It was a humbling but very valuable experience for me. One of the things I learned was not to focus on the negative for too long.
I feel your pain for I have lived it.
I am firmly with you on that note.
Our current situation is the result of the general avarice that pervades our society. If there is any good at all that can come out of the current situation it might be a lot of pompous people gaining an understanding of what it is like to “scratch to get by”. It is great for character building. You also learn an appreciation for better economic times. Focus on the positive, look for opportunities and don’t let the circumstances keep you from being happy. Life is too short to do otherwise.
When all of the States have enacted the Sovereignty act. The 10th. Amendment.
Bring it on, the individual States could take care of themselves better then the Feds are/have.
Kerry, I have to say I agree with you 110%, the fed is to huge and it nees to downsize into about 1/2 or less than it currently is. And the liberal team, bama,biden,pelosi,frank,schumer, fienstien-well you know what I mean ALL OF THEM need mto be impeached and physically removed from office-forever, the Clintons are like cockroachs, once you get them they are a real bit%& to get rid of
No one mentions retirees who depend on their life savings and the income generated from them plus gradual withdrawal of principal to maintain scaled back retirement lifestyles. Those funds have disappeared or have been so seriously depleted that the plans that they so carefully laid for the decades ahead have been shattered.
This is a group that does not benefit from any income tax credits, payroll-based adjustments, or other crap that Obama has sprinkled on the masses. Unemployment rates among this age group are staggering. Jobs are out of the question.
President Obama has become President Madoff for the over-60s. He has robbed us blind.
Please explain, HOW?
Which of his actions since January 15th has caused the very real problems you describe?
I suppose you mean he hasn't addressed your problem, but you are failing to see that if the value of your holdings go up when the economy turns around then he would in fact be saving your hide. As a member of the group you describe, I have in fact converted my holdings to cash which I intend to hold until I see my original equity and bond investments begin to turn around. I suggest you might do the same, or instruct your broker appropriately.
Every time he opens his mouth, which is every day, the stock market drops another 200 points. Many retirees have part or all of their savings in IRAs or otherwise invested in stocks or bonds (which currently pay virtually nothing) for some or all of their income. Obama and his Socialist ideas are the cause.
How can a President in office for less two months have stolen your retirement park bench?This recession started before the Presidential primaries began so stow the B.S. about it being a reaction to Barrack Obama running,too. I am sorry for any hardships encountered but retirement funds should have been in stable investments that aren't as affected by ups and downs of the stock market.Savings accounts are insured so that shouldn't have affected you either.
What is stable right now???
Viva....Gold, silver, guns, ammunition, food, survival tools all have value when the dollar crashes to nothing and the banks and stock markets collapse.
Jeff, will the govt. be providing those things?
GET real park bench lets see you do better .
Louis' suggestion that you convert your wealth to cash is inspiring.
I think he means dollar bills printed by the US Government.
When the current government orgy of "creating money" becomes recognized for the hyperinflation event it will cause, I sure hope Louis can re-buy his equities at a low of even 10:1.
Cash can make you feel safe, only if the government stops the re-evaluation of its purchasing power.
Should have bought silver dollars, Louis..................you lose.
You have to admit this is a very interesting time in history. Scary but very interesting.
Most recessions end within 15 months if the people in charge don't do anything stupid. Stupid could include throwing tens of billions at GM when they will have to reorganize anyway. Another would be throwing hundreds of billions trying to artificially prop up property values which will eventually need to fall. Not mention banks and insurance companies.
WHAT TO LOOK FOR
Of course the most solid indicator is JOBS, but there are a number of other indicators that should precede an upturn in the employment rate.
When we were an industrial nation it used to be orders of machine tools, (the machines that are used to make other machines). In the more recent past it used to be housing starts, but in light of the number of foreclosures I would look instead at the number of unsold units on the books of the banks. This would be a double indicator since it would indicate not only the willingness of consumers to accept debt, consumer confidence, but also the willingness of the banks to extend credit. The modern day equivalent of machine tool orders would be new or reinstated orders of computer chips, I suppose, which would be a firm indication of coming new business starts, big and small.
Because of the uncertainty, fragmentation, and contradictory interdependence of our present economic structure, I would advise the bargain hunter to look at a variety of these factors, but focusing on new orders or inventory whichever data is most reliable, (bearing in mind that inventory has a depreciation and obsolescence rate which may not be reflected in the books.)
I think housing unsold units and banks extending credit is a chicken and the egg problem.
It seems like the Treasury and Congress thinks "freeing up credit" is primary. But the recent infusion of "money" into the banks hasn't moved the 800 pound gorilla.
and he did all of what you say in 6 weeks.
The stock market has fallen 20% since his immaculation.
'immaculation'? That's not even a word. I checked in Webster's Dictionary. Is it a bushism. Then again, I don't think 'bushism' is a word. We all know bush was a fake.
Clearly, according to Ron-306183, President Obama just isn't living up to the legacy of former President Bush. You know, he might just be right! After all. . .
As President Obama said during a recent interview: "I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating. Well, I think if you say you're going to do something and don't do it, that's trustworthiness. I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family. I think the American people — I hope the American — I don't think, let me — I hope the American people trust me. Haven't we already given money to rich people? Why are we going to do it again? So I analyzed that and decided I didn't want to be the president during a depression greater than the Great Depression, or the beginning of a depression greater than the Great Depression. My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions. I got a lot of Ph.D.-types and smart people around me who come into the Oval Office and say, 'Mr. President, here's what's on my mind.' And I listen carefully to their advice. But having gathered the device, I decide, you know, I say, 'This is what we're going to do." You know, when you give a man more money in his pocket -- in this case, a woman more money in her pocket to expand a business, it -- they build new buildings. And when somebody builds a new building somebody has got to come and build the building. And when the building expanded it prevented additional opportunities for people to work. As yesterday's positive report card shows, childrens do learn when standards are high and results are measured. One of my concerns is that the health care not be as good as it can possibly be. I aim to be a competitive nation. The only way we can win is to leave before the job is done."
Clearly, Barrack Obama is most certainly an infant when compared to the overwhelming intellect, insight and wisdom of former President Bush. All we can do now is pray our outcomes will even measure up to amazing if not unbelievable results of the past 8 years! Of course, it will take better "strategerie", and Mr. Obama should become a better "decider", or an OB/GYN, and practice his "love" on the American public in a well, how would Mr. Bush say it. . .ah, yes. . "a less stupider way".
Apparently fear mongering is now THE PARTY OF OBAMALAND. That's all he does and all he says. Crisis this...Crisis that....Catastrophe this - Catastrophe that.....One speech he had the word CRISIS 25 times. We get it already!!!! Yes America is in shambles...YES BECAUSE OF THE DEMOCRATS SPENDTHRIFTS WAYS...Do not blame everything that has happened on Bush. He's only the fall guy....and when OBAMALAND comes to an end....Can we blame him for everything as well? He is failing miserably and all these left wing whack jobs know how to do is lay the blame on Bush or spend more dollars....You say Bush left a 1.7 trillion dollar deficit...When Obamaland is done..it will be nearly triple that...SO LET'S PUT THE BLAME WHERE IT GOES...Right in THE MIGHTY MESSIAH'S LAP...He's now the GUY WE WILL BLAME....IT'S ALL HIS GAME NOW...AND HE IS LOOSING HIS GAME.
People in this country...at election time....did NOT see the Obama as a candidate running for president. They saw a black man..standing in front of a teleprompter reading off something pre-written..that really as it was read no one could understand what was truly being said. Acorn and Obama had an agenda....and their agenda worked. They got the poor and uninformed out to vote with bribes.
The only thing the people who elected this man saw was the color of his skin and by God they were going to elect a black man to the presidency of this country...despite rather he was qualified, who and what he really represented and his agenda. They didn't stop to think for one moment what was really being said and what the agenda was. They had ONE GOAL and that was to elect him. Period.
I guess they figured there wouldn't be any repercussions because a black man would save them. Well America there are repercussions and they've only begun.
Call me a racist...call me what you will...but this is basically how the election was won. By corrupt politics based on lies and promises. None of those promises will ever be properly kept. Lies got him where he is...but lies will also doom this man. America is slowly catching on to his plan...the poor will eventually see what he is all about. None of the promises he made to you will come true. It's truly sad that Americans were used as the pawns they were
Blame your self ignorant Bush voter ..ITS YOUR FAULT IDIOT
It's interesting to see Republicans running ads against the recovery act saying that if we spent a million dollars a day since Jesus was born that it would be less spending than what Obama is spending. The same argument would apply to the Iraq war or the tax cuts for the rich. In fact it would be closer to 10 million a day to pay for the combined deficits under Republican presidents. Republicans apparently think Christians are suckers and that
if you use "Jesus" then people will accept it without thinking it through.
But what offends me more is that they used the name of Jesus to take a cheap and deceptive political shot.
Even as an Atheist I find it offensive that if you really believe in Jesus that you would defile him by using his name as part of a deception. It sends a message to Atheists like myself that believers don't really believe in Jesus,
And that if you don't really believe in Jesus then why should I?
URlemmings - I think you've lost ALL your marbles!!!
Umm. . .15 months in a "recession" and President Obama has been in office just shy of 2 months . .sooooo. . . .I can see where the right wing nutbags would say that Obama's administration is already a failure, and his lack of optimism is just pessimistic. I guess, in the Republican world, President Obama is too pessimistic about his optimism regarding the change he seeks to bring about to help bring us out of this borderline depression. Yes. . .that makes total sense. After all, he's been in office for about 2 months now!!!! What's he thinking? He needs to get with the program!!! Oh my. . .BUSH, WHERE ARE YOU WHEN WE NEED YOU????
Urlemmings & Dumbrepublican: How is atheism working for you? You both sound very angry and mad at society. Someone needs a hug.
When they run out of tents..
lol.................
And here I was thinking it was the 53,000 lobbiests in DC whose avg salary is $900,000 that gor us in this mess.
These fools will know when we've hit bottom when they look up and see the rest of us already out of the hole, whle they (as usual) are still behind the curve and alienated from the real world.
These guys don't know jack-squat. They are quite useless. Why do they even exist?
As an active Realtor in Texas I contend that the author doesn't have an idea what he's talking about when he states that this crisis is truly national rather than regional. Nevada, Florida, Michigan, California and Georgia are where close to 60% of all foreclosures are. This leaves the other 45 states with 40% of all foreclosures. Housing prices in our area were up 5.5% last year and are forecasted to only be down 5% this year. Most of the agents I know are encountering multiple bid situations on properties under 160K that are in good shape and in a great location.
I believe that this is a media run circus with "the sky is falling" mentality being the reason that the economy has gotten as bad as it is everywhere. You can't even see a positive headline without the disclaimer "but it's going to get worse..."
You forgot Arizona.
I do believe that we really don't know just what is going on, there is a lot of talk and talk and who knows the truth. It would help the American people to know what the truth is and stop this "The sky is falling, the sky is fallling." There is a difference among people today and the people of the thirty's. There seems to be more complaining and less facing reality with pride and endurance. With some I see it, but we have been feed bad news for generations now and the media seems to me to love bad news. Some optimism wouldn't hurt people. I think the gentleman from Texas has it more right. I hear things are booming in Reno.
A loss of the predicted 2.4 million is already almost halfway there. The so called experts had better review the unemployment statistics for January and February of 2009.
From the Bureau of Labor Statistics:
Nonfarm payroll employment continued to fall sharply in February (-651,000), and the unemployment rate rose from 7.6 to 8.1 percent, the Bureau of Labor Statistics of the U.S. Department of Labor reported today... .
The change in total nonfarm employment for December was revised from -577,000 to -681,000 and the change for January was revised from -598,000 to -655,000.
http://stats.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
Well california is already at 10.4% and and expected to reach 12-13 in the next couple months.
Ashamed of Peoples-Stupidity
Follow this link to the BLS website and note the unemployment rate for U-6 for February 2009!
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm
No President or Congress has ever had the ability to either create or end a recession, they occur as part of the normal business cycle every 6-10 years. They can, however, make them more shallow or cause them to be severe.
Bush actually got lucky at the beginning of his first term. He and Sen. Daschle agreed to a bipartisan compromise tax cut plan unaware that we were actually heading into a recession, since we were still a number of months away from the actual start of that recession. The result was a rather mild recession with unemployment peaking at 6.3%.
Obama, however, is making a number of mistakes that will make this recession longer and worse than it needed to be. His economic advisors probably thought that we were near the point where the economy would turn around and therefore built a budget based on a set of economic data that at best could be described as a "rosy scenario". At worst it could be called an intentional deception of the American public.
That budget contains a number of elements that is causing companies to revise their strategic plans based on Obama policies that will make it more costly to operate in the U.S. and more difficult for them to make profits in the years ahead. Therefore they are cutting more jobs, hoarding cash, and plan on hunkering down until they see which of these budget elements survive as it works through the Congress. You can't tell corporations that you are going to tax the hell out of them, raise their energy costs, eliminate the secret ballot for those interested in pushing unions onto workers who really don't want them, and so on, and at the time expect those same companies to take a risk by beginning to gear back up for economic recovery. It won't happen.
This really has now become the Obama Recession.
Peter 17,
All economic evidence in the last 100 years belies what you say. Wealth is consolidated under Republicans and unemployment always rises. These cycles were alwas reversed under democrats with regulation a reasoned tax and monetary policy an government directed towards middle class expansion. The balancing act worked until Reagan and Bush threw out the operators manual and decided government couldexpand revenues by radically reducing taxes on the most wealthy while massively growing government and debt both public and private. Creating an entity called a Consumer society and aservice economy is pure idiocy. They made it up like a demented fairytale and sold it as a path to wealth and glory they are no better than Madoff or a time share scam and it may take a generation of hardship to straighten out.
JKHayes
Peter 17, you make great sense to me. One of the best I've seen written.
Peter 17 - thanks for the post!
Peter............
Can you get on the hotline to Tim Geitner and straighten him out?
He's busy doing his taxes.........lol
between illegal immigrants crooked wall street and no moral banker ceo's i fear for the united states. you can't spend your way out of finacial difficulties. also when you give health care to everyone and a house to people who do not have the ability to pay for it you are dooming out country. we will soon be living like the third world countries which will make the liberals feel good, as they have everyone living on one level.
Banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered..
Thomas Jefferson
hmmm, sound familiar??
Didn't Joe Biden say that????????................
Oh, I guess he was just paraphrasing Jefferson.
How long did it take us to get here in the stock (greed) market? Try this on for size.
It took 5 months to drop 40%. Meanwhile jobs are decreasing and fear is increasing geometrically. Do the math. Stock market at 5000 within 1 month, maybe at 4000 in another 2 months. Keep playing with people's well being and there may be no stock left standing.
Have we still got our heads in the sand?
john-836428
It's more like 'exponentially'.
We are in for a long Depression, about 7 to 10 years. There is no confidence by the productive population in the Government. This is much like when Mayor Lindsey and the socialists in New York City backed the welfare and unproductive population in New York City over the productive population. The productive population, the tax base, voted with their feet and moved out of the city.
We can't move out of the country, but can "vote" by putting our money asleep. A 100 dollar bill has no value except for the confidence in the Government. The same holds true for securities. They are only paper but have value when people believe in their value.
The Government has declared war on productive people making over $250,000. The Government has chosen the losers over the best and the hardworking. The DOW reflects that investors and employers are staying on the side lines and putting their money to sleep. We can all wait this out until the free ride dead beats and losers run the present Government out of town, (of which they will.)
The DOW is only a number on a piece of paper and when confidence returns, the numbers will go upwards. This current Government team does not inspire confidence. They hate the private sector.
Us productive people will spend time with our families on much needed vacations, and not invest or hire for a while. Unemployment will rise and stay about 12% for a few years! Then the mob will run the Pied Piper out of town on a rail!
Let us see which side blinks first, disciplined investors or the idiot buyers of flat screen televisions and couches with drink holders bought with 3rd mortgages.
The current situation is not the end of history. The Depression will end about 2014.
Patrick....I agree with some of what you say. However, when you state,"The government has chosen the losers over the best and the hardworking." I have to call you out on that. There are people who are great people and hard working and they make less than $250,000.00 a year. When you think any one that does not make that is not hard working than you are arrogant.
Investors and employers are certainly necessary but they are not better than anyone else. I hope you never lose your wealth because you would have to live with the little people.