N.Y. financier accused of $140 million scam

Couldn't agree more JH. When this is all said and (never) done there will probably be another couple of hundred.

All the greedy CEOs who have stolen millions, like Mr. Thain should be locked up too. This is from another MSNBC article:

Even top executives whose banks made such risky loans they imperiled the economy have been largely spared any threat to their jobs, as Washington pumped billions in taxpayer money into the companies. Less fortunate are more than 100,000 bank employees laid off during a two-year stretch when industry unemployment nearly tripled, bank stocks plummeted and credit dried up.

Why do these thieves get to keep their jobs and lavish lifestyles while we, the people, still pay for it? I'd like the CEOs to be left homeless on the street while the hard-working employees help fix these collapsing bank, why would you trust a thief (CEO) to not steal the money a second time?

J. Hicks, I agree, totally. It is just beyond belief that these charlatains are allowed to await trial in the luxury of their exquisite residences, slipping valuables to family and friends. One can only assume that they are ALSO taking care of themselves, by filtering money into their already existing foreign, secret accounts. What totally amazes me even further, that when these ponzi schmucks are discovered prosecution is initiated, yet the CEO's of the banks and financial institutions remain in their jobs with no punishment. These scoundrels are as guilty as Madoff and the rest of the rats, and moreso. They put together these subprime loans, knowing most of them would soon be worthless, and sold them around the world, packaged and dressed up as AAA investments. These actions sent the entire WORLD economy into a tailspin.

How can they be left in their positions? Can someone please explain this rationale to me?

Ain't it great to be an American ? Any wonder why the country is in the shape it is ? Corrupt Bankers, corrupt brokers, corrupt politicians, corrupt CEO's and so on and so on...

Hope and change my A$$, not until all these greedy mofo's are dead and buried.

These greedy morons should be tried in China, which executes these types.

Furthermore top management positions in American corporations should be off-shored to China and India, who will do a better job for pennies on the dollar.

In addition Congress should make stock options compensation illegal.

Leprechaun, it's called FRAUD. But, unfortunately, the laws are so screwed up that there is civil fraud and criminal fraud. The GD lawmakers were either in the crooks' pockets or were just doing their usual @!$%#ty job when these laws were enacted. All fraud, if proven, should be criminal so that jail is part of the punishment. Individuals harmed by the SOB's should still be able to sue them civilly and bankrupt the bastards AND their wives (who often pretend to know nothing about what their spouse did but are happy to share in the ill-gotten gains).

I know, Cutter, but it just astounds me. How can these rapscallions escape real punishment for their deeds, when they have affected the future of so many investors just trying to grow their life savings? One Exec, whose name escapes me right now, knows he's going to get sued, so he was allowed to "sell" his multi million dollar Florida estate to his wife for $100. Anyone with a brain knows he's trying to salvage his worldly posessions with this scheme. How can he be permitted to do so and get away with it?

It's a sad state of affairs when we all must go with the opinion that we cannot trust anyone.... no one at all.... with our finances. Not bankers, not investment companies, investment/mortgage councelors... simply NO ONE can be trusted. They all went to business schools, prestigious ones at that. Dont these schools teach business ethics anymore? These wrongoings cannot be positioned as "lapses of judgement". These misdeads are fraud, pure and simple.

Hang the bastards, I say.

Lep., ethics courses are not a priority in business schools OR law schools.

If you want to lock these guys up, we should first lock up all of Congress as they are much larger theives while maintaining prestige!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was going to say: is there some sort of infestation that these crooks are all coming out of the woodwork now?

Well, well, well. Let them all rot, is what I say: oh, and pay 'em minimum wage and force them to pay restitution. For what little good it will do, but it may teach them that earning a decent living is hard work for the average folk.

Don't close Gitmo yet ....put these bastards in there and call them financial terrorists ...

LOL....MrLndia,

You beat me on that one. Below was my comment. We think alike.

Send these greedy ba$tards to Guantanamo Bay without legal representation.

money grabbers without honesty, values, principles. do not deserve any kind of clemency.. their worse than thieves, robbers etc. they are the scum of the earth. the lowest type freak ever imagined..when they get away with dirty deeds, they become rich and powerful ruining many lives....

I think many of these types have long ago "disappeared" to their own tropical paradises.

I know I would have.

Hey guys this may not be fraud at all its possible these managers just made bad investments and lost the money. The article didnt point to any fraud they just said the guy felt guilty for losing other peoples money. When you invest this is a chance you take. Now I could be wrong and he could of been lying about returns in which case it would be fraud but lets wait and see what they find before we rush out to convict people.

Jim what do you mean like Roaches? They are Roaches and they should be treated like Roaches

Greed caused the desire for deregulation. People did not realize deregulation opens up he bank for crooks also. You have your subtle ones and your in tyour face ones like this. no difference.

The reason they get away with these crimes is because we are so lax-ed when it comes to punishing anyone with money. Jails are for poor people not the rich and pretty. There really should be harsher laws when it comes to collateral damage. I know if I injured someone due to actions on my part that they do consider if it effects their family member like a parents support children. So I think not only the investors are hurt but their families as well. I also agree that if they left their investors penny-less then they should be in the same position. They should have any and all future earnings garnished until all damages are paid. If they as one person posted transfers property into other peoples names then those people will need for give back the property or face fraud charges. It seems simple but the government does not seem to care about us. Lord knows if I defraud someone I would lose everything and spend time in jail.

I was wondering how many more scam artists would be revealed now that Madoff was exposed and people are starting to ask questions of their investment "advisors". I'm sure there are many more to come.

Remember the big flap about Sarah Palin's dresses?

Americans! Where are you? Are you awake? We haven't heard any
comment on "Queen Madam" Pelosi's snit about having to ride home
in the
small private, economy jet that comes with the Speaker's job.
Remember how
Madame Pelosi was so aggravated that this little jet had to
refuel while
transporting her to California every week? Remember that she
insisted on a
luxurious 200 seat jet to fly her to California nonstop, instead?

Hello Folks! Are you awake? Can't you muster even a little
indignation?

Washington legislators who observed the Madam's Big Fat jet grinned
with glee as Joe Biden informed everyone that Nancy's luxury Jet
will
require hard working American tax payers, to buy thousands of
gallons of
expensive jet fuel every week. She only works 3 days a week but
her gas guzzler luxury jet flights home, to California ,
costs taxpayers $ 60,000
one way! As Joe noted, 'Unfortunately we have to pay to bring
her back on
Monday night,' so there goes another $60,000.

Folks, that is $480,000 per month or an annual cost to taxpayers of
$5,760,000. And she complains about the cost of the war? She
could take
the smaller jet which she says would cramp her style -- but
since her flying
in style takes precedence over war costs -- what the hell, eh?

Military families in this country do without while this woman, who
heads up the most do-nothing Congress in the history of our
country,
spends lavishly to fly herself and associates to and from
California every
week. That burns me!! How about you?

Madame Pelosi expects you and me to conserve our carbon
footprint by
driving smaller cars and buying a bicycle pump to over-inflate
our tires for
better economy while she and her hypocrite cohorts waste tax
payer dollars.
Ticks me off mightily! How about you?

It is that we were not warned. A. Hitler (1922) who had not killed anyone at that time, discussed the "Stock Market Bandits" at length in Mein Kampf.

This is the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Madoff scammed $50,000,000,000.00, this guy $150,000,000.00. What about those who scam, say, $2,000,000.00 on a monthly basis or even $500,000.00? After all, what percentage of Americans make $100,000.00 annually. So, scamming even $200,000.00 makes one higher up.

It's all part of their ridiculous hierarchy.

I agree with you 100% Unless they set precedence with Madoff the rest of the slime balls will think they can get away with it. Put him in jail now!!!!!!!!!!!! If it were one of us we would be in there right now with no chance of getting out!

1 scam after another.Its time that We The People take back what is ours. The problem is that we have no one to lead us.The Government keeps giving all OUR money back to the scammers who took it from us in the first place. I guess the only recourse we have is to gripe about what we have on these threads. If there is someone out there who knows how to lead a nation please post.

The SEC is a joke!! They complain that they need more money at a time when they get called to the carpet for not doing their job. FIRE them all and get some people in place that are willing to do the job as Securities and Exchange Commission.

I think we need to have the I.R.S. look into the employees of the SEC.

What amazes me is that jail doesn't seem to be a deterrent. How many of these guys get caught and convicted and they still keep coming out of the woodwork. One would think that after what happened at Enron, MCI and Adelphia that they would think twice.

he's rich

Want justice??? Then get a gun! Because that is the only kind of justice anyone is ever going to have.

B-b-b-b-b-baby, we ain't seen nothing yet!

I see it and I'm sick of it!!!! "It" caused my brother-in-law to commit suicide because he lost EVERYTHING and his wife after already losing her husband is now losing her home! They weren't even considered "rich", just tried to make some investments for their old(er) age! F%^^ those guys. They don't even care what they have done to the people who were foolish enough to trust them! They don't deserve leniency of ANY sort!

Investigate. Prosecute. Prison....yes prison. Not penthouse apartments.

Make them sell all their personal assets (and those of their wives) to cover whatever losses they have caused. Let them drive an old pickup truck and live in Oklahoma in a trailer if not convicted while doing public service in a subsidized old folks home for those who have nothing. They need to mop floors, clean out trash can, ......work.

They deserve to live the life they scammed so hard to avoid. Forever.

I like your idea, MrIndia, except for the public expense of having to feed, clothe, and house them. Maybe they could be sent up into space like waste too toxic to leave on earth.

robin hood, I have mixed feelings about these bailouts, especially the ones that have been given to the banks, but to say that Obama is no better than Madoff is ridiculous. Madoff did what he did solely to enrich himself. I don't think there's a comparison, even if you don't like Obama or think the bailouts are a good way to stimulate the economy.

The truth is, the economy is so f+++++ed now that no one actually knows the right way (or if there IS a way) to fix it.

Crystal-569996,

Remember the big flap about Sarah Palin's dresses?

Americans! Where are you? Are you awake? We haven't heard any
comment on "Queen Madam" Pelosi's snit about having to ride home
in the
small private, economy jet that comes with the Speaker's job.
Remember how
Madame Pelosi was so aggravated that this little jet had to
refuel while
transporting her to California every week? Remember that she
insisted on a
luxurious 200 seat jet to fly her to California nonstop, instead?

I sure do remember the "big flap" about Sarah Palin's dresses. She sent them back to the RNC Headquarters in TRASH BAGS. Real classy, huh?

As far as Nancy Pelosi is concerned......she can walk to work for all I care. Maybe it would be better if she just stayed home.

Send your complaints to: http://www.whitehouse.gov/

robin - yes, I am afraid that we will be in debt for a good chunk of this century, thanks to all the money that has been wasted by the Bush administration on an unnecessary war, coupled with his tax cuts for the rich, followed by the money given to bankers who won't even say what they will use it for, followed by the money you are talking about here. But at least the Obama Admin money is aimed at creating some economic activity -- not just rewarding the crooked bankers for being crooks (although, no doubt, there will be plenty of pork in there, too, to reward the various friends of the various congressmen and senators who will have to be soothed to vote for it)

G.H. - I'm so sorry to hear of your loss and my heart goes out to your sister. I pray that your brother-in-law's soul can be at peace. I fear that your loss is going to be experienced by many others in the days and weeks ahead. There was a report in the news of a man who killed his family and then himself after losing his job.

I wish people could understand that suicide is not the answer. But I understand their despair. You have my heartfelt sympathy.

And to those of you who keep putting all the blame on Bush, allow me to point out that Alan Greenspan played a very large part in the current economic debacle. I noticed no one ever mentions his name. But if you read, read, read - like I do, you'll see economists time and time again point to his failings as the Fed Chief.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Bush. I'm just pointing out the fact that Greenspan played a large role in the current state of our economy.

The other fact is that wealth in this country has been disproportionately weighted towards the wealthy. This was a big part of the problem in the last depression. Too few people have most of the wealth in this country. One goal should be to redistribute wealth - and please, for God's sake, don't start crying "socialism". It's about re-establishing the middle class.

The Federal Reserve is not a government organization, it is run by banks for banks. Bush's unnecessary war and incompetance sure helped the situation, Bush and Co. talked about regulation out of one side of thier mouths then out the other they promoted deregulation. The government knew there were problems as early as 2002 and did nothing, except a token display around election times. The Republicans had iron rule at the time, and were facilitated by Democrats. Can't really blame it on one party, but Repubs have had control for much of the last 20 years.

Agreed. It's time to put an end to corporate scandals and government corruption. No wonder the american public, and others, are so leary of parting with their hard earned dollars, they have been duped so many times over the last decade. How about a public flogging and a swift reimbursement?

Totally agree, not only should they be taken into custody but every asset that they, their family members and associates should be seized, if convicted, every penny of those assets should be payed out to reimburse the investors who were bilked. Their cases should be tried in open court, on television and the convicted should have to answer to eachindividuals they bilked before they are sentenced to hard labor. I must admit that I admire the Chinese Government for how severely corrupt business and government leaders are handled, usually it is a death sentence, life in prison, public floggings and the all their private property is seized.

Also, any individual who is convicted of fraud should be placed in state prisons with the general population not federal prisons.

They've succeeded in getting away with it in the past because the market was at least performing well enough that any monkey with the ability to throw some money into stocks could guarantee a return. Now with 12+ months of plunging markets, the truth is emerging.

I do admit I simply do not understand why the courts aren't immediately securing the assets of these alleged criminals. It doesn't take a conviction to do so, just enough evidence that a crime has been committed and that the public interest should be protected by freezing those assets. Bad enough they steal, then they get to use the stolen funds to pay for some high-priced suit to defend them too.

The number of these cases becoming public just emphasizes the total lack of supervision by those boards entrusted to do so. Time to clean house at the SEC and NASDAQ. Heck, put some of the millions of unemployed in charge of perusing the records for some of these operations that had allegedly been making unreal profits for years. It's not like there's a lack of unemployment in the financial sector to pick from.

The simple answer to you question on why now is in the schemes themselve. As long as you can find new investors coming in to these funds you can take their money and pay off the ones who get out. Some people made money off of these guys. It is only the ones who are left in them when the ball collapses.

When the financials collapsed they ran out of investors and headed for the hills. Right now Congress and the executive branch are trying to stop the bleeding but an indicator of coming events may be seen in some of the news on the back pages.

Item it was reported last night on TV that the former CEO of Lehman Bros. which collapsed when they defaulted on payment of about 350 billion in CDS's just transfered property worth 13.5 million to his wifes name.

Voter in LA:

Do not forget the FED and Treasury. You see a lot of spouting nowdays about Congress and their favorite whipping boys and girl but Congress only has oversight on these institutions. They write the laws that are requested by them to keep the financial sector safe for investors. Right or wrong they have to rely on what they gain from these guys testimony before them. Then Each of these departments act as the police force for the industry. Everyone of them failed in this mess. Not only here in America but around the world also.

...and you allow it to happen...have allowed it to happen, will continue to allow it to happen...so get used to it...or change something...

I hear you Mary J. I am glad they are busting these greedy clowns. But, I think the real heavy hitter criminals in Washington and Wall Street love this stuff, as it keeps the news off of their fraudulent asses.

Indeed; but the prospects of a lengthy jail sentence usually aren't in the stars for these folks. I walk into the local Stop & Rob and demand the money in their cash register, I get 25 years; and justifiably so. If the junk bond and telecom scandals are any indication, these robbers will get two to three years max. I have a novel idea - and one that should be equally applied to the War on Terror. Simply take no prisoners in both instances. Shoot them on the spot. Case closed.

Brad, I agree they should shoot the idiots. Unfortunately there are too many bleeding hearts in this country to get that done. Another issue is where will they put these crooks if they ever are convicted? If it's not a violent crime (meaning white collar) they usually get put somewhere that is more like a college campus. No fences just lines around the perimeter to show them how far they can go before they get grounded to their room. Thats real justice?

Brad, so true. The gangbangers, trailer trash, and other low lifes that commit crimes of violence should be (and often are) severely punished. But, socalled white collar crime is NOT punished nearly enough. These bastards ruin the lives of hundreds or thousands (or with this latest debacle) millions of people. Solitary confinement for life should be the minimum sentence!

Cutter, How dare you insult the gangbangers, trailer trash and low lifes by comparing them with these bastards.

They will get a couple of years in a nice establishment like the one Martha Stewart was in and then released to enjoy the millions they stashed away. Now if we can get them to rob a convenience store they may get the time they deserve.

At least gangbangers and trash rob commit crimes to either pay for a habit or food on the table, these wall street crooks do it out of spite for humanity and think they did no wrong. I work with so called gangbangers and trash, and each and every one of them would give up the lifestyle if they could get a decent job. How many of these wall street crooks would say that? Hang'em all.

He was just getting started...............next time he'll do better.

Another maddoff ha this guy isnt fit to scam maddoffs pool guy.

Yes, amateur, compared to Madoff, but there needs to be a long list of names, with a mix of ethnicity to kill the image. The hunt is on for more, even if collectively they can't come close to 50 billion.

Carole - that's exactly how they got away with it. When the bottom fell out of the market, their schemes were exposed. I suspect there are more to come - we've only seen the beginning. The article doesn't even mention that guy who jumped from an airplane, picked up a stashed motorcycle, then pretended to be suicidal and said he didn't remember doing any of it.

I'm just waiting to see the next one fall. I'm also waiting to see how justice is doled out. The sooner they lock them up, the better. Look what Thain just did - sold his wife a 7 million dollar estate for $100.00. He knows his turn is coming and he's trying to move his assets.

However our existence as a nation is not in deep jeopardy. We may not survive this greedy corrupt mess.

should read "now "in jeopardy!

It is ok to be upset or mad however it is not ok to perpetuate false information to support your cause. The bonuses ect., you are referring to were not paid out of taxpayer bailout funds. You win by being truthful and accurate with your information.

Ted,

Food stamp recipients can't buy their booze and cigarettes with food stamps either. What's your point?

Ted it is my understanding that some bank did in fact use the money to have really pricey retreats. Even if they did not use the money from the tax payers they did use money from somewhere to pay for bonuses and other non needed items WHILE getting bailout money. Same difference due.

You are talking about AiG which is a highly profitable worldwide company save their mortgage company. Their insurance company is profitable as is their other businesses worldwide. The trips and bonususwere from other parts of the company and had been planned way in advance. It was bad press but too late to cancel.

Do not get me wrong here I am not a fan of bailouts nor a fan of AIG. They just got egg on their face. The deal with them is one of the better ones. They borrowed money from the government and put up a large portion of that company as collateral. Last I saw the had world wide assets that total over a trillion dollars.

, Please allow me to attempt to clear your confusion. Food stamp recipients are not suppose to (shall not) buy their booze and cigarettes with food stamps. Can’t would imply that they would not be capable. However food stamp recipients can and do buy booze and cigarettes, among many other things with food stamps indirectly by converting the food stamps to cash.

Now are you attempting to imply that it is justifiable to withhold or negate your bonus if you are working for a company where a part of the income you depend on each year is a bonus that you receive at the end of the year? Bonuses paid by companies prior to or after receiving government assistance were not just paid to the corporate elite. Remember those bonuses you are crying about go into the economy. They are not stuck in a can a buried in the back yard.

Who of you know the inner workings of these companies including the salary and bonus structures of the employee’s? When is the work most difficult, during good times or bad times? In the good times you pay bonuses for good ideas and creativity and the hard work that it takes to energize them and stay on top of the market. In the hard times you pay bonuses for good ideas and creativity and the hard work that it takes to energize them and stay on top of the market. What is the difference? The market! This is not to say that complacency, arrogance or ego should be rewarded unless of course the results of the arrogance and ego are beneficial.

Ted,You're a good debator, but in my limited little middle class world I consider the shear size of these bonuses and pay scales to be elitist, most often unjustifiable, and quite arrogant. Feel the same about over paid athletes and celebrities. I know it happens in America all the time and true capitalists will find justifications every time. I just don't happen to agree and I don't feel I'm alone. I'm also not too sure how personal bonuses get back into the economy. Oh, wait, they do in that yet again higher end market where the majority of working Americans hold often non living wage jobs or can't afford to use their purchasing power.

If our politicians and high end business leaders didn't think it was all right for the most powerful in the Communist Party to do what they did, how can they continue to sanction a lot of what goes on with golden parachutes, bonuses, and the like. Sorry Ted. Just can't "swallow" all this.

Ted - you're confused - these entities needed bail out money to survive, yet used what remaining funds they had prior to the bailout to pay bonuses. Why do you think the head of Merrill Lynch issued bonuses ahead of schedule in December, rather than waiting for January. He wanted to get them out while he still had the chance, despite having to sell to BOA, who then in turn had to take a government bail out to help out with Merrill Lynches' debt.

Ok I do believe we are on the same side here. I want to submit to you and everyone else visiting this blog some facts and an Idea for you contemplation.

First of all I will confess that I have been in the past a recipient of some very large contract earning and bonuses. These were agreed to by the governing boards that wanted my help and were based on pure performance or you can say results. In other words no results no pay. The expectations were very detailed and understood. This is the only way I work. I either pull companies back from or I save companies from disaster. That is to say that I managing my team to prevent people from loosing there jobs in most cases and in others case generate jobs. You will be surprised what I hear when the initial presentation is given. This is from corporate boards where their companies are crashing. You want how much!! My income is truly earned because, quite simply unless I get the promised results I get nothing. When they finally understand this they are really quite happy. You mean we get to continue to sit hear and get our pay while you work in hopes of getting paid? WOW! Of course I do not go walking in dark without a light. Just imagine how productive our country would be if everyone worked this way.

You are talking about 18 to 20 hour days for weeks and some times months of work to make it all happen. While the employees of he company are working their normal hours. You might be surprised as to what I would hear from people in the areas or employees and family. Here are a few of the classics. “I can’t believe he was paid so much, hell anyone could have done it. I could have done it.” “I don’t care what he was paid because he saved my job.” I wish he never would have come around. Now we have to do things different.” He is a great guy. I had a pink slip one day and my job back the next.” He did a great job. If he hadn’t of turned it around I wouldn’t have got a job and would have had to move my family.” Unbelievable, no one should be paid that much money for a few months work! Do you work here? Yes!”

Ok enough is enough. Here are the facts and the idea.

All challenges have simple solutions. Solutions are made to appear complex by the ignorant with the hope for result of appearing intelligent for the hoped for result of being elevated by the masses above the masses. An example of ignorance operating and thriving behind a facade of intelligence and legitimacy.

The solution to our current economy challenges are simple but are being missed because everyone that thinks they are in power is participating in the actions referenced above. The solutions are not few it will take several and I have listed just a few for each of you to do.

1. Stop buying any products made outside of the U.S. or it’s territories. If you are buying foreign made products it is you that is outsourcing jobs not corporate America. You are also contributing to the trade deficit. If you cannot find it made in America then do without.

2. Buy stock in the company you work for if publicly trade or other companies of interest. The amount of stock does not matter. Now you are an owner so be herd. Give oversight.

3. If you own stock in a foreign company or a U.S. company that uses foreign labor, sell it.

4. Do not use commercial banks or investment banks. Everyone, pull your money out of the aforementioned banks and deposit it in a credit union. You are now an owner. Be herd and provide oversight. A banking system is necessary but banks are not. They are a parasite on the community politic.

5. Do not ignore corporate, government or employee complacency. Report all such paradigms to the proper command and request and insist on an investigation and corrective action. Demand accountability. If you get lazy they get lazy. Get what you paid for, whether it is corporate or government. You provide oversight.

6. If you are in or entering foreclosure on a property file an injunction with the local court and a complaint with the regulating state and federal agencies. Document all of you interactions with your mortgage holder and servicer.

If everyone in America began with these five simple rules that everyone can apply, our government and the world would learn quickly who is in charge and who really holds the power. We the people provide the real oversight! Now just go do it! Then you are a part of the solution instead of the problem.

How can the American people fight this? We have a cause but no leader. We can use the media to get attention but what cooridinated action can we take. Maybe a no work strike, a sit in at every federal building accross America for a few days.

OK Ted - good for you. In my opinion though, you over simplify what you consider to be the solution. I don't think anyone is against bonuses for a job well done - in fact, there are many of us who would love to get a bonus for recognition of a job well done.

What everyone is complaining about here is the fact that these people who ran their companies into the ground STILL got bonuses, which would lead one to think that doing a job well was not necessary to get bonuses. The other sad fact is that over the past 20 years or so, CEO's and other executives have found ways to inflate their earnings well beyond what could be considered reasonable. No one is so incredibly valuable that they should earn 100 times or more what the average employee earns.

Had these great men invested back into the companies, rather than bilking their companies for millions and millions of dollars, perhaps they wouldn't be in the mess they are today. Think about how many jobs could have been saved if they had earned less over the years. And maybe, just maybe, if their income had been truly tied to performance, none of them would have received bonuses for 2008 or even have jobs at this point.

I hate to tell you this Ted, but you sound very elitist - not good in this day and age.

Okay Boys and Girls. Your not listening. I am not in favor of bonus or any compensation not tied directly to performance and results. Performance and results are not always necessarily the same thing. However, these people are doing what they are doing and earning, I use this term loosely, what they are earning because stock holders are allowing it. It is the stockholders responsibility to place in management honest, reputable people to run their company. The management and stockholders are here to serve us. That is how they make their money. We are their cash flow stream. If we are not happy with the job they are doing for us as the customer then we can fire them and go somewhere else. It really is that simple. Many U.S. citizens have become lazy and complacent themselves, that is why we have these challenges. It appears that most would rather just lay blame and complain instead of taking action. They believe that this approach is easier. It is not. We are the engine and the solution to our current challenges. Do not leave it up to the government to fix this and then lay blame when it doesn’t work. Do it yourself. It really is that simple.

Ted, I think what I hear you saying, in a patronizing manner, is that we should have never been doing business with these companies in the first place if we felt that executive level persons were over paid. Futhermore, you're saying that shareholders need to voice their opinion about compensation and whose hired to run the business.

It's always been my understanding that the board of directors of a company are the ones that do the hiring and set compensation. The board of directors are made up of like minded persons who got on the board based on who they knew and because they themselves had enough money to buy large sums of stock, thereby giving them more power over their stock options.

Many ordinary stock holders are so via investment vehicles such as mutual funds, IRA's, 401K's, and other assorted retirement accounts, annuity's, etc. They've utitilized these sorts of investment vehicles so as to take advantage of greater minds that are supposed to be experts on these matters - therefore they are paid for the service of their expert guidance.

Here again, I think you over simply the solution. If it were that simple, don't you think shareholders long ago would have put a stop to executive excesses? I don't think too many people out there have ever felt like it was OK for executive compensation to be so "out of balance" as compared to the ordinary working person. I realize that those at the top are always going to earn more money. My issue is with how far out of balance the distribution of wealth has become in this country. And it's gotten this way because of execessive executive compensation.

If you study history, which I'm sure you have, you'll know that this very sort of situation was one of the contributing factors to the great depression. Too much wealth was concentrated with too few people. In the years that followed, executive compensation, although hire than the average employee, was never to the extreme that it has gotten to today. And part of the problem that led to excess was the governments attempt to "reign" in executive compensation. For every effort put forth to discourage execessive compensation, companies found loopholes that actually served to increase compensation, i.e. stock options, bonuses, perks, etc.

I do agree with you on the point you make about stop giving your business to companies that endorse excessive compensation. One way to do so is to use your local credit unions and community banks - I have done so for years. I do have a mortgage with SunTrust Bank, but only because I worked at Crestar Bank, and as an employee I received a discount on closing costs. Crestar was ultimately purchased by SunTrust Bank, so there you have it. I would urge all Americans to pull their money out of every national bank out there - Bank of America, Citibank, Wells Fargo, even SunTrust. Moving on from there, I would not invest a dime in anything today. Put all your money into a certificate of deposit at your local credit union or community bank until this economic storm passes. Once the sun comes out again, keep as much of your investments with those credit unions and local banks as possible. Make small loans to upstart companies. Buy some inexpensive houses and rent them out. So on and so forth. I wouldn't touch the markets for a very, very, very long time.

And it is this attitude that is crashing our economy right now. Good Job! Keep it up!

Right on Janet!

I am also in total agreement with Janet. This country needs a complete turnaround so individuals cease to think they are so special they deserve to do this to their fellow man.

Easy, a lavish lifestyle muddles the mind.

You know I never understood people that chase money to the point of extremism. What do you do with 50-100 million dollars? I retired with a nice piece of change. My two sons have their college paid for. They both have trust funds set up. I am comfortable and my nest egg which is safe from all of this will have plenty in it when I pass for others in my family. Why 50 million dollar salaries? No wonder things cost so much anymore.

i retired in 2002 at age 60 after 42 years in the construction trades... my retirement $ was based on yearly statements from the money managers who oversaw the funds invested through employee contributions through my employers... on dec. 20 I was notified that my monthly payment would no longer be available due to the Madoff situation... my physical condition does not allow me to work in the trades anymore... I can not draw social security... and have been told that social security disability (if I qualify) will take approx 2 years... I am not nor ever have been a greedy or vengefull person... all I ever wanted was to spend my working career doing what I love for as long as i could do it.. my dream (at one time satisfied) is now shattered... I am not alone... to make the statement that we "got what they deserve" is uneducated and extremely hurtfull to the many thousands of hard working people in a situation similar to mine... I don't know what the outcome of this all will be, I only hope that those on whose decisions my future now rely understand the hurt and despair caused by the lax and moreover non-existent oversight of those that we as taxpayers have provided employment for through our tax dollars and for once DO THE RIGHT THING

I am with you 100% and I would guess that there are millions more to agree. How can this get initiated?

Perfect. Revolution WAY overdue!

YES YES YES YES get your guns voting does no good

See post #4.3

I agree.

Sorry, you cannot do that. He is George W. Bush & Dick Cheney's friend.

Make them work for minimum wage for the rest of their life and live in a roach infested rat haven of a tenement would be better. Course they would just stick their heads in an oven and turn on the gas.

Right-o sickofdbsltds -- think of these people as serial killers -- these greedy bastards have managed to wipe out hundreds of thousands of folks who've worked all their lives and invested, and mistakenly, believed in the people advising them - what can we possibly do to these horrors of human beings to make them suffer -- hanging is too good for 'em --

I'll bring the rope!!

Burn them out like the rat's they are or turn them over to the people they have cheated !! How about a million people marching on wall street and watch them run from window to window , just like a caged rat of course we could help them jump !!!

you dont do that to your buddies. Who will bring the Dom at the next dinner

You are so correct. The feds must get back to regulating and this does NOT mean putting more foxes in charge of the chicken houses!

Deregulation does not mean “no oversight”. To imply that it does is what is “stupid” at worse case and “ignorant” at best case.

Ted--Doesn't matter whether the "intention" of deregulation was "noble"; judged by its results, one can only conclude that it in fact means "no oversight." Furthermore, judging by the magnitude--indeed, the enormity--of the financial damages, one can only conclude that the era of "no oversight" is exactly what those who lobbied for and got deregulation were after all along. Finally, with the revelations of politcal donations, it is impossible to conclude that the members of Congress were innocent dupes. "By their fruits ye shall know them!"

Lack of regulation was not the cause of the current financial events. The regulations and the system for oversight were and still are in place to prevent the current financial events. The problem was the complacency and lack of accountability of the committee in charge of oversight in addition to the regulatory body and its employees that the committee had oversight over. There is more than enough staff to accomplish what needs to be done. If they were held accountable that is.

Yes you can. As a US citizen you can request a congressional inquiry into suspected illegal activity of any federally regulated institution. You do have to provide foundation.